On Jun 9, 9:49*am, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>
> About two years ago I upgraded my heating and switched to natural gas. Last summer I got
> an abnormally high bill in the middle of summer so I called. They had
> guesstimated my usage because their meter reader could not see my meter.
> They said that it was obstructed by shrubs. * I had no trouble getting a
> reading myself. All I had to do was get close and bend over to see the
> numbers. As I pointed out to the person on the other end,I don't know
> why it would be a problem for them to read, since the meter is exactly
> where it was the year before when they installed it.
>
>
Did you get an adjustment on your bill?????

" wrote:
>
> On Jun 9, 9:49 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
> >
> >
> > About two years ago I upgraded my heating and switched to natural gas. Last summer I got
> > an abnormally high bill in the middle of summer so I called. They had
> > guesstimated my usage because their meter reader could not see my meter.
> > They said that it was obstructed by shrubs. I had no trouble getting a
> > reading myself. All I had to do was get close and bend over to see the
> > numbers. As I pointed out to the person on the other end,I don't know
> > why it would be a problem for them to read, since the meter is exactly
> > where it was the year before when they installed it.
> >
> >
> Did you get an adjustment on your bill?????

No doubt he will. My electric company will often guesstimate my usage based
on past usage. Once they finally send someone to actually read the meter,
it's always adjusted.

Gary

On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 13:52:49 -0400, T >
wrote:

>
> Weird, the meters around here are all read via RF. Of course
> enterprising sorts have put a farrady cage around their gas meter, but
> not after figuring out what frequency and protocol was being used
> though. Then when the gas vehicle interrogates, THEIR ersatz gas meter
> sends ITS reading.

I just plain don't like those things. They still haven't figured out
why people seem to be getting brain tumors from cell phone usage and
now they want to install one of them under my bedroom window?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 6/9/2012 2:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 07:25:20 -0700, > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 23:29:25 -0400, Ed > wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 16:54:13 -0700 (PDT), "
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I believe the bank charges the merchant more in fees when a card is
>>>> used as a credit transaction vs. debit.
>>>
>>> That makes sense. If they handle a debit transaction, they are
>>> processing payment within hours with little risk. If they are
>>> processing a credit card, they take on the risk of not getting paid as
>>> quickly or if ever so they need more to cover expenses.
>>
>> Merchants take a risk on a credit card debt? Highly unlikely. The
>> bank pays the merchant and it's up to them to collect their debts, not
>> the merchant. Both types of transactions are done by computer in a
>> matter of seconds and the bank is just using other people's money
>> longer than they should if they take any more time to do it than it's
>> taking me to write this.
>
> No, the bank is taking the risk. Very little with a debit card as the
> funds are transferred quickly. With a credit card, they are holding
> the bag for a couple of weeks until they get paid and they may never
> get paid, thus their greater exposure = higher fees.
>
> In the case of either card, they are performing a service and have to
> get paid for it. Yes, it is done quickly by computer, but the
> infrastructure to do so is very expensive.

I guess we would need to define what "very expensive" means considering
there are zillions of transactions every day.

The merchant needs to buy or lease the credit card equipment (credit
card machine, reader for POS etc), The merchant has to pay a monthly fee
for a merchant account, the merchant has to pay a per transaction fee
and a percentage fee which increases if someone uses a "rewards" card in
order to pay for the rewards. The merchants equipment uses their
Internet connection to send the information to the gateway they use.

The credit card provider needs to be able to make cards and handle
billing, collections and customer service issues with their staff in the
Philippines.

On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 07:25:20 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 23:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 16:54:13 -0700 (PDT), "
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >I believe the bank charges the merchant more in fees when a card is
>> >used as a credit transaction vs. debit.
>>
>> That makes sense. If they handle a debit transaction, they are
>> processing payment within hours with little risk. If they are
>> processing a credit card, they take on the risk of not getting paid as
>> quickly or if ever so they need more to cover expenses.
>
>Merchants take a risk on a credit card debt? Highly unlikely. The
>bank pays the merchant and it's up to them to collect their debts, not
>the merchant.

That's not true. Credit card companys typically pay in 90 days, some
120 days, some longer. The merchant has to wait, the customer pays
for that wait in the form of higher prices. Often buyers dispute a
credit card purchase and so it takes a lot longer for the merchant to
get paid, if at all. In any event any expenses incurred by the
merchant for credit card usage are passed along to the customers in
the form of higher prices. Only the customers take the loss. Many
merchants offer a discount for cash... I pay 5¢ less per gallon for
gas and 10¢ less per gallon for diesel by paying with cash.

On 6/9/2012 2:44 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> That's not true. Credit card companys typically pay in 90 days, some
> 120 days, some longer.


Nope. I run a customer's credit card for a payment on a cruise and the
cruise line has their money within minutes... and I get a confirmation
from the cruise line that they have applied the payment to the booking
almost immediately.

Credit card companies can recall a contested charge, but they do not
hold the money for any period of time. Most normal transactions are
posted almost instantly.

Back in the old days, credit card transactions were done in batches,
usually once a week (once a day for high volume users) and there were
reconciliation reports issued. Now, for the most part, each transaction
is done in real time.

George L

On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:05:07 -0500, George Leppla
> wrote:

>On 6/9/2012 2:44 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> That's not true. Credit card companys typically pay in 90 days, some
>> 120 days, some longer.
>
>
>Nope. I run a customer's credit card for a payment on a cruise and the
>cruise line has their money within minutes... and I get a confirmation
>from the cruise line that they have applied the payment to the booking
>almost immediately.
>
>Credit card companies can recall a contested charge, but they do not
>hold the money for any period of time. Most normal transactions are
>posted almost instantly.


But the credit car company has not been paid, thus the need for a fee.
He may wait some weeks for the consumer to send his check. I have no
idea what is a "fair" fee, but one is needed.

On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:39:53 -0400, George >
wrote:



>I guess we would need to define what "very expensive" means considering
>there are zillions of transactions every day.
>
>The merchant needs to buy or lease the credit card equipment (credit
>card machine, reader for POS etc), The merchant has to pay a monthly fee
>for a merchant account, the merchant has to pay a per transaction fee
>and a percentage fee which increases if someone uses a "rewards" card in
>order to pay for the rewards. The merchants equipment uses their
>Internet connection to send the information to the gateway they use.
>
>The credit card provider needs to be able to make cards and handle
>billing, collections and customer service issues with their staff in the
>Philippines.


Expensive is more than most of us can afford to do on our own. I'd
guess well into the hundreds of thousand, probably millions of dollars
to put in the basic infrastructure of computers, connections,
terminals, and staff.

We often complain about the cost of using a credit card and yes, it is
zillions of transactions. As long as we want that service and
continue to use it, we will pay.

Remember waaaaay back when magazines touted we will eventually have a
cash-less society? We are headed that way and the banks are making
out well with it.

On 6/9/2012 2:49 PM, Gary wrote:

> No doubt he will. My electric company will often guesstimate my usage based
> on past usage. Once they finally send someone to actually read the meter,
> it's always adjusted.

The water company estimated my usage not long after I bought this house.
They based it on prior use which was a family of five. It wasn't hard to
get that one adjusted. Both my electric and water meters can be read
from the street now. I put a locked gate on to the backyard so they had
no choice.

On 6/9/2012 3:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:05:07 -0500, George Leppla
> > wrote:
>
>> >On 6/9/2012 2:44 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> >> That's not true. Credit card companys typically pay in 90 days, some
>>> >> 120 days, some longer.
>> >
>> >
>> >Nope. I run a customer's credit card for a payment on a cruise and the
>> >cruise line has their money within minutes... and I get a confirmation
>>from the cruise line that they have applied the payment to the booking
>> >almost immediately.
>> >
>> >Credit card companies can recall a contested charge, but they do not
>> >hold the money for any period of time. Most normal transactions are
>> >posted almost instantly.
>
> But the credit car company has not been paid, thus the need for a fee.
> He may wait some weeks for the consumer to send his check. I have no
> idea what is a "fair" fee, but one is needed.


Credit card companies charge retailers fees based on 1) the total dollar
volume they do and 2) the number of transactions. The fees generally
run from o.5% to 3.5%

A cruise line with lots of high dollar transactions pays a fairly low
rate. A local retail store with fewer and lower transactions pays a
higher rate.

Credit card companies make their profit from these transaction fees,
along with the fees (usually yearly) and interest that they charge the
consumer.

George L

On 6/9/2012 4:24 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:39:53 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>> I guess we would need to define what "very expensive" means considering
>> there are zillions of transactions every day.
>>
>> The merchant needs to buy or lease the credit card equipment (credit
>> card machine, reader for POS etc), The merchant has to pay a monthly fee
>> for a merchant account, the merchant has to pay a per transaction fee
>> and a percentage fee which increases if someone uses a "rewards" card in
>> order to pay for the rewards. The merchants equipment uses their
>> Internet connection to send the information to the gateway they use.
>>
>> The credit card provider needs to be able to make cards and handle
>> billing, collections and customer service issues with their staff in the
>> Philippines.
>
>
> Expensive is more than most of us can afford to do on our own. I'd
> guess well into the hundreds of thousand, probably millions of dollars
> to put in the basic infrastructure of computers, connections,
> terminals, and staff.

So really not that much money for a bigger business?


>
> We often complain about the cost of using a credit card and yes, it is
> zillions of transactions. As long as we want that service and
> continue to use it, we will pay.
>

One of the reasons credit cards caught on is the FUD preached by the
banks that it is really expensive to handle cash and soooo much better
to let the banks do it for you. A family member has a responsible
position at the headquarters of a mostly retail organization that does ~
$14 billion annual business and is known for their great analytic
ability on their back end. She says they know it is absolutely much more
expensive for them to "let the bank do it" compared to handling cash in
the stores.

More and more merchants are realizing this.

In just the past year at least three large gas station/cstores have
reopened around here under new ownership and they are cash only. They
are always a little under 3% less than their competitors and do a
booming business.

A large local heating oil supplier is now advertising cash discounts.

I can now walk into the local lawn and garden place and buy say a mower
and get a cash discount.

I think that is progress in the right direction.

> Remember waaaaay back when magazines touted we will eventually have a
> cash-less society? We are headed that way and the banks are making
> out well with it.

On 6/9/2012 4:05 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/9/2012 2:44 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> That's not true. Credit card companys typically pay in 90 days, some
>> 120 days, some longer.
>
>
> Nope. I run a customer's credit card for a payment on a cruise and the
> cruise line has their money within minutes... and I get a confirmation
> from the cruise line that they have applied the payment to the booking
> almost immediately.

For sure. In some cases the latest may be that it is posted the next day
to your merchant account.

>
> Credit card companies can recall a contested charge, but they do not
> hold the money for any period of time. Most normal transactions are
> posted almost instantly.
>
> Back in the old days, credit card transactions were done in batches,
> usually once a week (once a day for high volume users) and there were
> reconciliation reports issued. Now, for the most part, each transaction
> is done in real time.
>
> George L

On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:05:07 -0500, George Leppla
> wrote:

>On 6/9/2012 2:44 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> That's not true. Credit card companys typically pay in 90 days, some
>> 120 days, some longer.
>
>
>Nope. I run a customer's credit card for a payment on a cruise and the
>cruise line has their money within minutes... and I get a confirmation
>from the cruise line that they have applied the payment to the booking
>almost immediately.

They may apply the amount but they are not actually paid anything,
retail stores operate the same. Businesses are given credit for debts
outstanding... all businesses that accept credit card payment have to
wait to actually receive the funds (typically never under 30 days) but
can borrow on their receivables (up to a set limit, all different).
When there is too much borrowing on receiveables that's when
businesses (and countries) fall on hard times, because a percentage of
receivables are never collected.

On Jun 9, 4:24*pm, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:39:53 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
> >I guess we would need to define what "very expensive" means considering
> >there are zillions of transactions every day.
>
> >The merchant needs to buy or lease the credit card equipment (credit
> >card machine, reader for POS etc), The merchant has to pay a monthly fee
> >for a merchant account, the merchant has to pay a per transaction fee
> >and a percentage fee which increases if someone uses a "rewards" card in
> >order to pay for the rewards. The merchants equipment uses their
> >Internet connection to send the information to the gateway they use.
>
> >The credit card provider needs to be able to make cards and handle
> >billing, collections and customer service issues with their staff in the
> >Philippines.
>
> Expensive is more than most of us can afford to do on our own. *I'd
> guess well into the hundreds of thousand, probably millions of dollars
> to put in the basic infrastructure of computers, connections,
> terminals, and staff.
>
> We often complain about the cost of using a credit card and yes, it is
> zillions of transactions. *As long as we want that service and
> continue to use it, we will pay.
>
> Remember waaaaay back when magazines touted we will eventually have a
> cash-less society? *We are headed that way and the banks are making
> out well with it.

True enough. I can't think of the last time I used cash - oh yeah -
my under-the-table yard man. I'm sure he'd take a check if that was
all I had tho.

I also will pay cash when I'm running into a convenience store for a
few bucks worth of snacks in a one horse town. Also, to throw a tip
to the guitarist. Or if the place looks like its run by shady types.

George wrote:
>
>In just the past year at least three large gas station/cstores have
>reopened around here under new ownership and they are cash only. They
>are always a little under 3% less than their competitors and do a
>booming business.
>
>A large local heating oil supplier is now advertising cash discounts.
>
>I can now walk into the local lawn and garden place and buy say a mower
>and get a cash discount.

Business has always been conducted that way, it's known as "cash on
the barrelhead". Many businesses have never accepted credit cards and
they charge lower prices. It's only within the past few years that
businesses have been advertising that they give cash discounts. Many
businesses are trying to get away from credit cards because they have
to wait too long for their money.

On Jun 7, 6:43*pm, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1>

I maintain checking
> accounts at three different banks and have two different checking
> accounts at each, a regular checking and a money market checking, plus
> savings accts, and jumbo CDs *I even have a passbook account...

Don't you go nuts trying to keep it all straight? I tried running two
diff. cr. cd. accts once - to play the different closing date - went
nuts and gave up. I have two sep chkg accts with 2 diff. banks, but
one is sort of my working acct, the other I use rarely to pay local
people so they don't have to wait but can go right to the branch and
get their dough. I still log stuff into the wrong log and go nuts
with the reconciliation.

Kalmia wrote:
>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>I maintain checking
>> accounts at three different banks and have two different checking
>> accounts at each, a regular checking and a money market checking, plus
>> savings accts, and jumbo CDs *I even have a passbook account...
>
>Don't you go nuts trying to keep it all straight? I tried running two
>diff. cr. cd. accts once - to play the different closing date - went
>nuts and gave up. I have two sep chkg accts with 2 diff. banks, but
>one is sort of my working acct, the other I use rarely to pay local
>people so they don't have to wait but can go right to the branch and
>get their dough. I still log stuff into the wrong log and go nuts
>with the reconciliation.

I mostly use just one checking account. The money market checking is
used rarely, just for paying large purchases like a big screen TV, and
to pay property tax, insurances, and of course the IRS. For most
every day purchases I pay with cash (green money), I don't need to
record those purchases. I have those banks mostly so I can spread out
funds to stay below the federally insured limits. Every so often I
receive a letter from a bank reminding me that I have an inactive
account, so I'll phone and tell them to transfer one dollar. The
managers and several of the bank officers know me, they often phone
just to say hello or to wish me a happy birthday. One of the bank
managers that I call every month to transfer direct deposit funds from
checking to money market just had her first child, I sent a nice gift,
a silver cup and feeding spoon from Tiffany & Co. I'm very good about
posting in my check register but every so often I'll ask the bank to
reconsile my checking accounts because I never remember to post
interest... I always have quite a bit more in checking than I realize.
I use different color check book holders for each acct. It's
difficult to find nice leather check book holders anymore, most all a
combos and too bulky, and I hate the cheap plastic freebies. I never
go nuts counting money. LOL

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
om...
> On 09/06/2012 5:44 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>> You can bet I'd start sending checks. My insurance tried charging so
>>> I continued to pay by check. Now they allow it free.
>>
>> Yeah. I was annoyed with my electric company because they were the only
>> utility I had that wouldn't do automatic payments or allow to pay online.
(snippage)


Even the guy who mows my lawn offers a way for me to pay online. And he
doesn't charge extra for it.

> About two years ago I upgraded my heating and switched to natural gas. I
> saved a bundle. Going from increasingly expensive oil to a high efficiency
> natural gas furnace my heating cost plummeted, I also have gas hot water
> so I have gas use in the summer as well. Last summer I got an abnormally
> high bill in the middle of summer so I called. They had guesstimated my
> usage because their meter reader could not see my meter.
(snippage)
>
So far since living in South Carolina, I haven't seen a "estimated" utility
bill. Back in Tennessee they used to do it all the time. (And no, the
meter wasn't obstructed by anything.) So one month I'd have a reasonable
bill, then the next month I'd get an "estimated" bill that was doubled even
though my usage hadn't changed. I called to complain and was given some
lame excuse. Unfortunately, in most places (at least in the US), utility
companies are a monopoly. You can't pick and choose your electric/gas/water
providers. It's all or nothing. And they know that.

Jill

Andy wrote:
>
> Gary > wrote:
>
> > OT: Breakfast for dinner last night...
> > - bacon
> > - fried eggs
> > - baked potato
> > - buttered toast
> > - orange juice
> > - YUM!
> >
> > YOU? (tm by Andy)
>
> HA!!!
>
> You're bravely entitled to call breakfast dinner.
>
> I'm one of those "anything for breakfast" people!

Yes, you are! I've seen your breakfast menus. Most sound very good but
something I would eat for lunch or dinner. You eat the "correct" way...big
breakfast, some for lunch, and very little for dinner. I do the opposite and
I know I'm in the wrong according to the nutrition/diet experts but it works
for me. I have absolutely no appetite in the morning

> Feed your good-luck ferret a nibble on my behalf?
>
> Andy

OK then. I fed them each 2 cut up raisins for a tiny snack yesterday.
They like those.
Me: "These are from some guy named Andy"
Them (silently): "Gee thanks, Andy"
heheh

On 6/9/2012 6:13 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> They may apply the amount but they are not actually paid anything,
> retail stores operate the same. Businesses are given credit for debts
> outstanding... all businesses that accept credit card payment have to
> wait to actually receive the funds (typically never under 30 days) but
> can borrow on their receivables (up to a set limit, all different).


You don't know what you are talking about. Not even a clue.

George L

On 6/10/2012 4:10 AM, jmcquown wrote:

> So far since living in South Carolina, I haven't seen a "estimated"
> utility bill. Back in Tennessee they used to do it all the time. (And
> no, the meter wasn't obstructed by anything.) So one month I'd have a
> reasonable bill, then the next month I'd get an "estimated" bill that
> was doubled even though my usage hadn't changed.

Works for them. Read the meters half the time means they don't have
to hire as many meter readers. And they get to send you an inflated
bill and use your money for a month. Some strategy. Someone should
complain to the Board of Public Utilities.

nancy

On 6/10/2012 8:30 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 6/10/2012 4:10 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> So far since living in South Carolina, I haven't seen a "estimated"
>> utility bill. Back in Tennessee they used to do it all the time. (And
>> no, the meter wasn't obstructed by anything.) So one month I'd have a
>> reasonable bill, then the next month I'd get an "estimated" bill that
>> was doubled even though my usage hadn't changed.
>
> Works for them. Read the meters half the time means they don't have
> to hire as many meter readers. And they get to send you an inflated
> bill and use your money for a month. Some strategy. Someone should
> complain to the Board of Public Utilities.
>
> nancy

Our prior gas utility was great for creative estimated billing. Say you
had never ever had a bill greater than $100 for that particular month.
There might have been snowy weather or something so they would send a
bill stating "due to inclement weather we are estimating your bill" and
it would be for something like $487.22

I would call and ask and they would say "just pay it". Then I would ask
"how much do I owe?". We would go back and forth and I would ask for a
supervisor and I would state "I will pay you what I owe and since you
estimated the bill I will pay something reasonable". More discussion and
then "sir, pay $100".

Another gas company bought that one. Now all of our utility meters are
remote read.

On 6/9/2012 7:25 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> George wrote:
>>
>> In just the past year at least three large gas station/cstores have
>> reopened around here under new ownership and they are cash only. They
>> are always a little under 3% less than their competitors and do a
>> booming business.
>>
>> A large local heating oil supplier is now advertising cash discounts.
>>
>> I can now walk into the local lawn and garden place and buy say a mower
>> and get a cash discount.
>
> Business has always been conducted that way, it's known as "cash on
> the barrelhead". Many businesses have never accepted credit cards and
> they charge lower prices. It's only within the past few years that
> businesses have been advertising that they give cash discounts. Many
> businesses are trying to get away from credit cards because they have
> to wait too long for their money.

Actually no. Merchants either get the money almost immediately or in the
case of those that do lots of transactions they get it on the next day
with a manifest listing the transactions.

The discussion was businesses who do accept credit cards who need to
raise their overall prices to pay for their fees, costs and "rewards cards".

On 6/10/2012 8:23 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/9/2012 6:13 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> They may apply the amount but they are not actually paid anything,
>> retail stores operate the same. Businesses are given credit for debts
>> outstanding... all businesses that accept credit card payment have to
>> wait to actually receive the funds (typically never under 30 days) but
>> can borrow on their receivables (up to a set limit, all different).
>
>
> You don't know what you are talking about. Not even a clue.
>
> George L

+1

On 6/10/2012 9:03 AM, George wrote:
> On 6/10/2012 8:30 AM, Nancy Young wrote:

>> Works for them. Read the meters half the time means they don't have
>> to hire as many meter readers. And they get to send you an inflated
>> bill and use your money for a month. Some strategy. Someone should
>> complain to the Board of Public Utilities.

> Our prior gas utility was great for creative estimated billing.

In my experience, they all are.

> Say you
> had never ever had a bill greater than $100 for that particular month.
> There might have been snowy weather or something so they would send a
> bill stating "due to inclement weather we are estimating your bill" and
> it would be for something like $487.22

Okay, not that bad! They had brass ones.

> I would call and ask and they would say "just pay it". Then I would ask
> "how much do I owe?". We would go back and forth and I would ask for a
> supervisor and I would state "I will pay you what I owe and since you
> estimated the bill I will pay something reasonable". More discussion and
> then "sir, pay $100".

Save your breath and just send them $100. They'd have a lot of
explaining to do if they turn off your service. They answer to
someone.

> Another gas company bought that one. Now all of our utility meters are
> remote read.

My gas & electric are on budget. When we first bought the place, we
didn't have a lot of money to pay one of those high bills in the summer.
It's amazing, at the end of the fiscal year, when they settle up, they
wind up owing you a few bucks yet the new budget amount is way higher.

Whatever. They readjust in a few months when your balance grows too
large.

nancy

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 09:07:26 -0400, George >
wrote:

>On 6/9/2012 7:25 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> George wrote:
>>>
>>> In just the past year at least three large gas station/cstores have
>>> reopened around here under new ownership and they are cash only. They
>>> are always a little under 3% less than their competitors and do a
>>> booming business.
>>>
>>> A large local heating oil supplier is now advertising cash discounts.
>>>
>>> I can now walk into the local lawn and garden place and buy say a mower
>>> and get a cash discount.
>>
>> Business has always been conducted that way, it's known as "cash on
>> the barrelhead". Many businesses have never accepted credit cards and
>> they charge lower prices. It's only within the past few years that
>> businesses have been advertising that they give cash discounts. Many
>> businesses are trying to get away from credit cards because they have
>> to wait too long for their money.
>
>Actually no. Merchants either get the money almost immediately or in the
>case of those that do lots of transactions they get it on the next day
>with a manifest listing the transactions.
>
>The discussion was businesses who do accept credit cards who need to
>raise their overall prices to pay for their fees, costs and "rewards cards".

George is an idiot... George never had a real job, George has no
marketable skills, in fact George doesn't work at all, George is an
idiot and a bum... if George hawked vacuum cleaners door to door he'd
have a marketable skill... hawking cruise tickets is ten steps below
pushing Girl Scout cookies.

On 6/10/2012 3:54 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 09:07:26 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/9/2012 7:25 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> George wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In just the past year at least three large gas station/cstores have
>>>> reopened around here under new ownership and they are cash only. They
>>>> are always a little under 3% less than their competitors and do a
>>>> booming business.
>>>>
>>>> A large local heating oil supplier is now advertising cash discounts.
>>>>
>>>> I can now walk into the local lawn and garden place and buy say a mower
>>>> and get a cash discount.
>>>
>>> Business has always been conducted that way, it's known as "cash on
>>> the barrelhead". Many businesses have never accepted credit cards and
>>> they charge lower prices. It's only within the past few years that
>>> businesses have been advertising that they give cash discounts. Many
>>> businesses are trying to get away from credit cards because they have
>>> to wait too long for their money.
>>
>> Actually no. Merchants either get the money almost immediately or in the
>> case of those that do lots of transactions they get it on the next day
>> with a manifest listing the transactions.
>>
>> The discussion was businesses who do accept credit cards who need to
>> raise their overall prices to pay for their fees, costs and "rewards cards".
>
> George is an idiot... George never had a real job, George has no
> marketable skills, in fact George doesn't work at all, George is an
> idiot and a bum... if George hawked vacuum cleaners door to door he'd
> have a marketable skill... hawking cruise tickets is ten steps below
> pushing Girl Scout cookies.


Seems you can't keep track of which George you are talking to. The
George you responded to doesn't sell cruises.... I do.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that you have no idea how
credit transactions work.

If you are going to be part of the conversation, at least try to keep
track of who you are talking to.

George L

On Jun 8, 4:30*pm, Jim Elbrecht > wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 13:23:59 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
>
> > wrote:
>
> >> >>We can pay property taxes online (costs 40 cents) and car registration
> >> >>fee (costs 50 cents).
>
> >> I pay prop taxes at my bank for free.
>
> >But you have to go to the bank.
>
> >I was talking about fees to pay tax and registration fees online.
>
> That seems to be just starting in our area. * I've paid my trash
> hauler online for years and they just started charging. * *Still no
> charge from NY's car registration-- just did one this morning.
>
> My taxes come out of escrow-- car insurance gives a discount for
> *automatic* electronic payment.
>
> My electric utility is interesting-- Years ago they gave a $1 credit
> if you went paperless. * *Now they charge for an electronic payment.
>
> Different times--
> Jim

I just don't get charging for payments online - it is all automatic,
no human action is required. But some agencies will charge for
everything they think they can get away with.

N.

On Jun 8, 6:52*pm, "
> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 9:37*am, Nancy2 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 7, 4:17*pm, "
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 7, 4:04*pm, George Leppla > wrote:
>
> > > > I write very few checks any more... most bills are paid by EFT.
>
> > > > George L
>
> > > Mine, too. *I write, on average, 6 checks per year. *Property taxes
> > > and drivers license renewal are two that get checks. *They'll accept
> > > debit or credit cards but tack on a 2.75% fee, checks are accepted
> > > with no charge and I can whip out that checkbook in a flash!
>
> > We can pay property taxes online (costs 40 cents) and car registration
> > fee (costs 50 cents).
>
> > N.
>
> The first time I was able to pay property taxes online I thought, "Oh
> goody!" *But when I did the math for the 2.75% fee tacked on based on
> the amount of my taxes I decided to spring for the 44¢ stamp. *The fee
> for accepting the debit payment online was just under $40; same
> percentage fee applied to credit cards. * * ):-(

Not here ... you have some greedy gusses....

N.

On Jun 8, 6:54*pm, "
> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 9:41*am, Nancy2 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > We get the seniors rate at our bank..... no fees at all, except we have
> > > to pay for cheque books. *Since we use the debit card most of the time
> > > we rarely write cheques. I had to write one last week for a load of
> > > gravel for the driveway. I had to get my wife to find the chequebook.
> > > The month bank statements for our chequing account used to include the
> > > cancelled cheques and there would be dozens of them each month. Now
> > > there is one or two, sometimes none.
>
> > My bank doesn't charge a fee for using a debit card as a debit card,
> > or as a credit card, and lately I find myself selecting "credit" more
> > often, just because it's impossible to swipe a PIN if you say it's
> > credit. *It all comes out of my checking account immediately, anyway.
> > I especially select "credit" at the gas pump.
>
> > N.
>
> I believe the bank charges the merchant more in fees when a card is
> used as a credit transaction vs. debit.

I don't know about that - many stores have done away with debit
transactions (they just cover up that option on the card readers - and
only accept credit. The merchants don't appear to care one way or the
other.

N.

On 2012-06-11, Nancy2 > wrote:

> I just don't get charging for payments online

What the heck do you think the entire banking industry is based on?
It's based on charging you, the customer, for handling your money.
You think jes cuz the method of handling $$$ has changed they're gonna
stop charging? Get a clue.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
<http://www.labelgmos.org/>

On Jun 11, 10:16*am, Nancy2 > wrote:
>
> On Jun 8, 6:52*pm, "
>
>
> > The first time I was able to pay property taxes online I thought, "Oh
> > goody!" *But when I did the math for the 2.75% fee tacked on based on
> > the amount of my taxes I decided to spring for the 44¢ stamp. *The fee
> > for accepting the debit payment online was just under $40; same
> > percentage fee applied to credit cards. * * ):-(
>
> Not here ... *you have some greedy gusses....
>
> N.
>
>
Supposedly this is a third party company doing the debit and credit
services for the city and state. They're the ones tacking on these
fees.

But, I did get highly annoyed at Travelers car insurance for wanting
to charge me a $5 fee for paying online and paying my premiums at 6
months intervals. However, if I were willing to let them debit my
checking account _each month_ there was no charge. That made no
sense to me at all but I've switched my home owners policy to another
company due to Traveler's exhorbitant increase and will be switching
car insurance in December.

On Jun 11, 10:43*am, notbob > wrote:
> On 2012-06-11, Nancy2 > wrote:
>
> > I just don't get charging for payments online
>
> What the heck do you think the entire banking industry is based on?
> It's based on charging you, the customer, for handling your money.
> You think jes cuz the method of handling $$$ has changed they're gonna
> stop charging? *Get a clue.
>
> nb
>
> --
> vi --the heart of evil!
> Support labeling GMOs
> <http://www.labelgmos.org/>

I'm not arguing, just saying I think it's greedy. Back in the day
when you had to go to the bank and have an actual human wait on you, I
could see paying a small fee for checks written, etc. But now that
it's all automatic, there's no excuse. I know the banking industry
charges for everything they can think of, but that's not how it should
be.

N.

On 2012-06-11, Nancy2 > wrote:

> it's all automatic, there's no excuse.

What!? You think it's all automatic cuz the Good Witch of the South
waved her magic wand?

Nevermind..... I can see this is pointless.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
<http://www.labelgmos.org/>

On Jun 11, 10:17*am, Nancy2 > wrote:
>
> On Jun 8, 6:54*pm, "
>
>
> > I believe the bank charges the merchant more in fees when a card is
> > used as a credit transaction vs. debit.
>
> I don't know about that - many stores have done away with debit
> transactions (they just cover up that option on the card readers - and
> only accept credit. *The merchants don't appear to care one way or the
> other.
>
> N.
>
>
Probably each city/state/merchant/bank has their own rules how they
are going to handle 'plastic' purchases. I do know _here_ if a
debit card is run through as a credit purchase the fee charged to the
merchant is more than if it is a debit purchase. No stores _here_
have done away with the debit option; what other cities/banks/
merchants throughout the country do, I can't say.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:45:22 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:


>
>But, I did get highly annoyed at Travelers car insurance for wanting
>to charge me a $5 fee for paying online and paying my premiums at 6
>months intervals. However, if I were willing to let them debit my
>checking account _each month_ there was no charge. That made no
>sense to me at all but I've switched my home owners policy to another
>company due to Traveler's exhorbitant increase and will be switching
>car insurance in December.

Many insurance companies charge 4 to 6 bucks for partial payments.
Why? Because they can. I bet a lot of people just look at the amount
to pay every month and it does not sink in what the cost is.

I prefer to pay it all and save about $60 a year rather than give it
to them.

On 2012-06-12, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Many insurance companies charge 4 to 6 bucks for partial payments.
> Why? Because they can.

Because lobbyists have made usury legal.

At least legal if you are a financial instituion. If yer a mob goon,
it's still illegal. I recall when CA changed the law making it
mandatory to have car insurance. I was jes getting back on my feet
and couldn't afford to pay the entire premium at once and hadda make
payments. The policy stated right on the paperwork, "Interest:
87.5%". I assumed that was for late payments, as I never really had
to pay that much on the unpayed balance, making all my payments on
time. But it stated that exact line. No lie. It hadda be for
something and it had to be legal.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
<http://www.labelgmos.org/>

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:13:33 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:45:22 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
>
> >
> >But, I did get highly annoyed at Travelers car insurance for wanting
> >to charge me a $5 fee for paying online and paying my premiums at 6
> >months intervals. However, if I were willing to let them debit my
> >checking account _each month_ there was no charge. That made no
> >sense to me at all but I've switched my home owners policy to another
> >company due to Traveler's exhorbitant increase and will be switching
> >car insurance in December.
>
> Many insurance companies charge 4 to 6 bucks for partial payments.
> Why? Because they can. I bet a lot of people just look at the amount
> to pay every month and it does not sink in what the cost is.
>
> I prefer to pay it all and save about $60 a year rather than give it
> to them.

And you can thank goodness that you can afford to do it that way. The
people who pay for partial payments obviously can't afford to pay it
in full on a one time only basis. That's why the poor stay poor.
They are penalized by every business for not being able to afford
their outrageous fees.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 12 Jun 2012 03:49:53 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> I recall when CA changed the law making it mandatory to have car insurance.

Unbelievable. If you can't afford insurance, then you shouldn't be
driving.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:29:52 -0700, sf > wrote:


>
>And you can thank goodness that you can afford to do it that way. The
>people who pay for partial payments obviously can't afford to pay it
>in full on a one time only basis. That's why the poor stay poor.
>They are penalized by every business for not being able to afford
>their outrageous fees.

Very true. The furniture rental places and the like are very
expensive also. The Pay It Here car lots prey on the low income
people.

I filled out tax forms for a few people. In a couple of cases, they
could file on line and have direct deposit of the refund. Total cost
was about $24. These people could not come up with the $24, so they
opted to have the fee taken out of the refund. That was another $20
or more IIRC.

Even worse, (I did the taxes for free) if they went to a regular place
it would have cost $50 or more for a simple form. Our tax system is
beyond the capabilities of many uneducated people.