I would like to thank all who answer in advance, even the wise-
crackers, as I intend to make this roast tomorrow whether I have the
correct info or not. But I will still read all responses and reply to
them at some point as always.

I saw a recipe in yesterday's paper that sounded good. It called
for a two pound pork loin roast. Not tenderloin, just loin.

It said to inset some garlic into slits and then salt and pepper
it and brown it in some olive oil.

Then it said to add 3 carrots in pieces, two medium onions in
quarters, a tablespoon each of chopped ginger and jalapeno, and a half
cup of sun dried tomatoes in a cup of warm water. Nothing else, just
those veggies and the liquid tossed on top of the browned roast.

I have never braised a roast on the stovetop, which is my
favorite and maybe only place to cook. It seems on first reading that
the veggies called for might not be enough to prevent burning. But I
know I've had this fear before with other things and wound up
regretting adding water. So my question is, am I being too fearful
here or does it sound as if the veggies and liquid are enough to do
the job? I have never used sun dried tomatoes before but I've seen
them. I have this planned for tomorrow night and am going forth with
the plan regardless, and I am not going to open the lid on the pot
until the roast is supposed to be done. Just kidding, I'll probably
sneak a fearful peek or two. Thanks again to all responses, even the
wise guys.

TJ

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT), Tommy Joe
> wrote:



>
> It seems on first reading that
>the veggies called for might not be enough to prevent burning. But I
>know I've had this fear before with other things and wound up
>regretting adding water. So my question is, am I being too fearful
>here or does it sound as if the veggies and liquid are enough to do
>the job?


Should work just fine. Best if you have a Dutch oven or otherwise
heavy pot for jobs like that.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT), Tommy Joe
> wrote:

>
> I would like to thank all who answer in advance, even the wise-
>crackers, as I intend to make this roast tomorrow whether I have the
>correct info or not. But I will still read all responses and reply to
>them at some point as always.
>
> I saw a recipe in yesterday's paper that sounded good. It called
>for a two pound pork loin roast. Not tenderloin, just loin.
>
> It said to inset some garlic into slits and then salt and pepper
>it and brown it in some olive oil.
>
> Then it said to add 3 carrots in pieces, two medium onions in
>quarters, a tablespoon each of chopped ginger and jalapeno, and a half
>cup of sun dried tomatoes in a cup of warm water. Nothing else, just
>those veggies and the liquid tossed on top of the browned roast.
>
> I have never braised a roast on the stovetop, which is my
>favorite and maybe only place to cook. It seems on first reading that
>the veggies called for might not be enough to prevent burning. But I
>know I've had this fear before with other things and wound up
>regretting adding water. So my question is, am I being too fearful
>here or does it sound as if the veggies and liquid are enough to do
>the job? I have never used sun dried tomatoes before but I've seen
>them. I have this planned for tomorrow night and am going forth with
>the plan regardless, and I am not going to open the lid on the pot
>until the roast is supposed to be done. Just kidding, I'll probably
>sneak a fearful peek or two. Thanks again to all responses, even the
>wise guys.
>
>TJ

Unless it's the first cut (with lots of fat) pork loin doesn't braise
well, it's much too lean so will all of a sudden fall apart into tough
gritty (rhymes with titty) bits and strings, will be very dry. Pork
loin is best dry/oven roasted until just barely cooked through.
Yesterday I braised pork shoulder chops in tomato sauce, luscious! I
always braise on the stovetop, I need to taste and add... for me
braising is a whole day affair that demands my full attention.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT), Tommy Joe
> wrote:

> I saw a recipe in yesterday's paper that sounded good. It called
> for a two pound pork loin roast. Not tenderloin, just loin.
>
> It said to inset some garlic into slits and then salt and pepper
> it and brown it in some olive oil.
>
> Then it said to add 3 carrots in pieces, two medium onions in
> quarters, a tablespoon each of chopped ginger and jalapeno, and a half
> cup of sun dried tomatoes in a cup of warm water. Nothing else, just
> those veggies and the liquid tossed on top of the browned roast.
>
> I have never braised a roast on the stovetop, which is my
> favorite and maybe only place to cook. It seems on first reading that
> the veggies called for might not be enough to prevent burning. But I
> know I've had this fear before with other things and wound up
> regretting adding water. So my question is, am I being too fearful
> here or does it sound as if the veggies and liquid are enough to do
> the job? I have never used sun dried tomatoes before but I've seen
> them. I have this planned for tomorrow night and am going forth with
> the plan regardless, and I am not going to open the lid on the pot
> until the roast is supposed to be done. Just kidding, I'll probably
> sneak a fearful peek or two. Thanks again to all responses, even the
> wise guys.

You'll need to open the lid. Keep an eye on it and add more liquid if
you think it's getting dry. I'm wondering why the recipe calls for
pork loin and not pork shoulder for braising, because loin screams
"roast" to me. What does your recipe tell you for timing? One of the
posts in this thread says to cook it 35-40 minutes per pound.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/293897 Sounds like it'll cook pretty
quickly if your roast is only 2 pounds, so you shouldn't have a
problem with the liquid boiling away if you keep the heat low enough.
If you have what you think is too much liquid at the end of braising,
turn the heat up and reduce the liquid to the amount/strength you want
it to be after you've removed the meat and vegetables from the pot.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 12/06/2012 1:43 AM, Tommy Joe wrote:
>
> I would like to thank all who answer in advance, even the wise-
> crackers, as I intend to make this roast tomorrow whether I have the
> correct info or not. But I will still read all responses and reply to
> them at some point as always.
>
> I saw a recipe in yesterday's paper that sounded good. It called
> for a two pound pork loin roast. Not tenderloin, just loin.
>
> It said to inset some garlic into slits and then salt and pepper
> it and brown it in some olive oil.
>
> Then it said to add 3 carrots in pieces, two medium onions in
> quarters, a tablespoon each of chopped ginger and jalapeno, and a half
> cup of sun dried tomatoes in a cup of warm water. Nothing else, just
> those veggies and the liquid tossed on top of the browned roast.
>
> I have never braised a roast on the stovetop, which is my
> favorite and maybe only place to cook. It seems on first reading that
> the veggies called for might not be enough to prevent burning. But I
> know I've had this fear before with other things and wound up
> regretting adding water. So my question is, am I being too fearful
> here or does it sound as if the veggies and liquid are enough to do
> the job? I have never used sun dried tomatoes before but I've seen
> them. I have this planned for tomorrow night and am going forth with
> the plan regardless, and I am not going to open the lid on the pot
> until the roast is supposed to be done. Just kidding, I'll probably
> sneak a fearful peek or two. Thanks again to all responses, even the
> wise guys.
>
It should work. The trick with braising is to keep the liquid hot enough
but not boiling. A stew boiled is a stew spoiled. I to dishes like that
in a large pot, lid on, and in the oven at 300F.

On 2012-06-12, Dave Smith > wrote:

> but not boiling. A stew boiled is a stew spoiled. I to dishes like that
> in a large pot, lid on, and in the oven at 300F.

Jes exactly how does one avoid anything boiling at 300F? Even
pressure cookers rarely exceed 250F.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
<http://www.labelgmos.org/>

On Jun 12, 2:53*am, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT), Tommy Joe
>
> > wrote:
>
> > It seems on first reading that
> >the veggies called for might not be enough to prevent burning. *But I
> >know I've had this fear before with other things and wound up
> >regretting adding water. *So my question is, am I being too fearful
> >here or does it sound as if the veggies and liquid are enough to do
> >the job?
>
> Should work just fine. *Best if you have a Dutch oven or otherwise
> heavy pot for jobs like that.

I discovered I can braise in one of my ordinary pots if I have a tight
fitting lid. Theorizing that the weight of a Dutch oven lid kept the
moisture inside, I bought this welded ring (1.45 lb) at the hardware
store, to set on my ordinary pot lids. I degreased it and seasoned it
with peanut oil as if it was a cast iron pan. The weight of the ring
does help the lid keep the moisture inside when simmering. The ring
diameter clears all my pot lid handles.

http://www.uneedit.com/industrial-eq...ng-193-6051014

On Jun 12, 11:49*am, notbob > wrote:
> On 2012-06-12, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > but not boiling. A stew boiled is a stew spoiled. I to dishes like that
> > in a large pot, lid on, and in the oven at 300F.
>
> Jes exactly how does one avoid anything boiling at 300F? *Even
> pressure cookers rarely exceed 250F.

I know what you mean. I cooked a beef roast at 325F the other day. Did
you know it took well over an hour for the roast's internal
temperature to reach 140F? What gives?

I think the answer in both cases is that pressure cookers transfer
heat mostly via steam, while ovens transfer heat mostly via air.

On Jun 12, 5:53*am, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Should work just fine. *Best if you have a Dutch oven or otherwise
> heavy pot for jobs like that.


I have a large pot, reasonably thick, that I used a few weeks ago
to brown a roast. That too is something I rarely do, I usually just
simmer it. The bottom of the pot has to be hot, I'm told, which makes
me feel the need for more oil, but a lot of it is probably in my
mind. It's the same fear I have using less oil that I have using so
few veggies for the broth. It sure does seem like not many of them,
but I will take the recipes word for it and even more so yours.
Thanks. I just lack confidence sometimes, the type of person who
thinks he can't do things but then does them ok or even better if
forced to act alone.

TJ

On Jun 12, 8:54*am, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

> Unless it's the first cut (with lots of fat) pork loin doesn't braise
> well, it's much too lean so will all of a sudden fall apart into tough
> gritty (rhymes with titty) bits and strings, will be very dry. *Pork
> loin is best dry/oven roasted until just barely cooked through.
> Yesterday I braised pork shoulder chops in tomato sauce, luscious! *I
> always braise on the stovetop, I need to taste and add... for me
> braising is a whole day affair that demands my full attention.


All day affair? The only all day affair I'm into is doing
nothing. Your negative comments will not deter me. I will make the
loin roast and let you know how it turned out (if it turns out bad),
otherwise I will say nothing if it turns out ok. Thanks for your
response.

TJ

On Jun 12, 10:44*am, sf > wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT), Tommy Joe
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > * * I saw a recipe in yesterday's paper that sounded good. *It called
> > for a two pound pork loin roast. *Not tenderloin, just loin.
>
> > * * It said to inset some garlic into slits and then salt and pepper
> > it and brown it in some olive oil.
>
> > * * Then it said to add 3 carrots in pieces, two medium onions in
> > quarters, a tablespoon each of chopped ginger and jalapeno, and a half
> > cup of sun dried tomatoes in a cup of warm water. *Nothing else, just
> > those veggies and the liquid tossed on top of the browned roast.
>
> > * * * I have never braised a roast on the stovetop, which is my
> > favorite and maybe only place to cook. *It seems on first reading that
> > the veggies called for might not be enough to prevent burning. *But I
> > know I've had this fear before with other things and wound up
> > regretting adding water. *So my question is, am I being too fearful
> > here or does it sound as if the veggies and liquid are enough to do
> > the job? *I have never used sun dried tomatoes before but I've seen
> > them. *I have this planned for tomorrow night and am going forth with
> > the plan regardless, and I am not going to open the lid on the pot
> > until the roast is supposed to be done. *Just kidding, I'll probably
> > sneak a fearful peek or two. *Thanks again to all responses, even the
> > wise guys.
>
> You'll need to open the lid. *Keep an eye on it and add more liquid if
> you think it's getting dry. *I'm wondering why the recipe calls for
> pork loin and not pork shoulder for braising, because loin screams
> "roast" to me. *What does your recipe tell you for timing? *One of the
> posts in this thread says to cook it 35-40 minutes per pound.http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/293897*Sounds like it'll cook pretty
> quickly if your roast is only 2 pounds, so you shouldn't have a
> problem with the liquid boiling away if you keep the heat low enough.
> If you have what you think is too much liquid at the end of braising,
> turn the heat up and reduce the liquid to the amount/strength you want
> it to be after you've removed the meat and vegetables from the pot.


Sounds reasonable. I'm going to use the loin roast - 2 pounds -
unless they don't have any at the market I'm about to walk a mile and
a half to. Yes, I will keep my eye on it. It's a two pounder, so by
the equations you mention that would be about 80 minutes, not far off
the hour and a half cooking the recipe calls for. They ask for very
low, with is fine, but I have a lousy electric stove and it seems the
burner is not very consistent. It's a furnished place and I'm working
with some lousy equipment, which at least gives me a good excuse for
failure.

But I will not fail,
TJ

On Jun 12, 2:44*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:

> It should work. The trick with braising is to keep the liquid hot enough
> but not boiling. A stew boiled is a stew spoiled. I to dishes like that
> in a large pot, lid on, and in the oven at 300F.


Your response sounds more than reasonable except I do not use the
oven. Yes, I will keep the lid closed, opening it only to check on a
few occasions. I think it will be alright. In fact, the main reason
the recipe caught my eye is as I looked at the ingredients I was
saying, "Oh yeah, good", then hoping I didn't see the word "oven" in
the instructions. I didn't. So that drew me in, the idea that it
called for the stovetop, which is where I do most of my cooking.
Thanks.

TJ

On Jun 12, 3:53*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:

> I discovered I can braise in one of my ordinary pots if I have a tight
> fitting lid. Theorizing that the weight of a Dutch oven lid kept the
> moisture inside, I bought this welded ring (1.45 lb) at the hardware
> store, to set on my ordinary pot lids. I degreased it and seasoned it
> with peanut oil as if it was a cast iron pan. The weight of the ring
> does help the lid keep the moisture inside when simmering. The ring
> diameter clears all my pot lid handles.


That was interesting, the 1:45 pound ring thing. I think my pot
will do the job, maybe not to perfection, but I think it will work as
I wonder how people made roasts in ordinary pots before pressure
cookers and other devices came about. I remember eating stovetop
roasts at other people's places and they came out of ordinary large
pots. Well, it's a learning lesson, so I'll find out tonight.

TJ

On Jun 12, 6:02*pm, Tommy Joe > wrote:
> On Jun 12, 3:53*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>
> > I discovered I can braise in one of my ordinary pots if I have a tight
> > fitting lid. Theorizing that the weight of a Dutch oven lid kept the
> > moisture inside, I bought this welded ring (1.45 lb) at the hardware
> > store, to set on my ordinary pot lids. I degreased it and seasoned it
> > with peanut oil as if it was a cast iron pan. The weight of the ring
> > does help the lid keep the moisture inside when simmering. The ring
> > diameter clears all my pot lid handles.
>
> * *That was interesting, the 1:45 pound ring thing. *I think my pot
> will do the job, maybe not to perfection, but I think it will work as
> I wonder how people made roasts in ordinary pots before pressure
> cookers and other devices came about. *I remember eating stovetop
> roasts at other people's places and they came out of ordinary large
> pots. *Well, it's a learning lesson, so I'll find out tonight.
>

My mother used this aluminum "dutch oven" that her mother had bought
from a door-to-door salesman in Canada, during the depression. I think
it was the Canadian version of waterless cooking. It was massively
thick. I'd be using it now except it is badly pitted.

On Jun 12, 9:31*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:

> My mother used this aluminum "dutch oven" that her mother had bought
> from a door-to-door salesman in Canada, during the depression. I think
> it was the Canadian version of waterless cooking. It was massively
> thick. I'd be using it now except it is badly pitted.


God, I hate to give the impression I'm crying for the past as
really there are many new things I like, but there were some things in
the past that have disappeared and don't seem to be replaced by
anything better, only something more expensive, and cheaper made to
boot. I can't tell you the number of things I bought in the past that
are no longer available and for which I have found no decent
substitute. Shopping for sneakers (athletic shoes), is a very
stressful hunt/chore for me. I hate it. They take something really
practical off the shelves for a decade or two, make it impossible to
find anything like it - then years later they come out with something
designed to look like the very thing they took away, and it's just a
hunk of garbage with a very high price tag on it. I wish I had that
dutch oven you're talking about. But I don't like keeping a lot of
things. I'm telling you, with the fast paced marketing going on these
days you better buy more than one of whatever it is you like because
you know it's not going to be there next time you look for it. It's
like you need to buy a locker to keep well loved shoes in so you never
need to go to the store again. I knew a guy in L.A. who did that. I
thought he was nuts. Not anymore.

TJ

On Jun 13, 5:21*am, Tommy Joe > wrote:

> like you need to buy a locker to keep well loved shoes in so you never
> need to go to the store again. *I knew a guy in L.A. who did that. *I
> thought he was nuts. *Not anymore.



Sorry, very anal right now, must make it clear and honest or I'll
go nuts. In my post I made it sound as if the guy I thought was nuts
bought a locker for his shoes. I did not mean that. I meant he
bought a lot of the same shoes at one time. I was with him once when
he bought a pair of earth shoes. He swore by them. As he was making
the purchase with the sales guy, he said, "How much if I get two
pair?" The guy told him and it was less. Then he asked about 4? An
even bigger savings. He left with 6 pairs of the same shoes. I
thought he was nuts, but the truth is the guy was ahead of his time.
And he was nuts too. But that's another story.

TJ

Tommy Joe wrote:
>
> I can't tell you the number of things I bought in the past that
> are no longer available and for which I have found no decent
> substitute.

That's the story of my life. Anytime I find a product that I really like, I
know it's days are numbered. :-(

On Jun 13, 2:29*am, Tommy Joe > wrote:
> On Jun 13, 5:21*am, Tommy Joe > wrote:
>
> > like you need to buy a locker to keep well loved shoes in so you never
> > need to go to the store again. *I knew a guy in L.A. who did that. *I
> > thought he was nuts. *Not anymore.
>
> * *Sorry, very anal right now, must make it clear and honest or I'll
> go nuts. *In my post I made it sound as if the guy I thought was nuts
> bought a locker for his shoes. *I did not mean that. *I meant he
> bought a lot of the same shoes at one time. *I was with him once when
> he bought a pair of earth shoes. *He swore by them. *As he was making
> the purchase with the sales guy, he said, "How much if I get two
> pair?" *The guy told him and it was less. *Then he asked about 4? *An
> even bigger savings. *He left with 6 pairs of the same shoes. *I
> thought he was nuts, but the truth is the guy was ahead of his time.
> And he was nuts too. *But that's another story.

I know what you mean.

For many a winter, my wife relied on a pair of heavy shoes sold by
Roots of Canada to make it through the snow and slush. Finally they
were worn out.

But then a Roots store opened in our area. And yes, those "Roots
boots" were available, by special order. A few months later the store
disappeared.

On 6/11/2012 7:43 PM, Tommy Joe wrote:
>
> I would like to thank all who answer in advance, even the wise-
> crackers, as I intend to make this roast tomorrow whether I have the
> correct info or not. But I will still read all responses and reply to
> them at some point as always.

I've never thought to braise a pork loin so I'd be interested in your
results. Good luck! I'd probably just roast that sucker at low heat but
the price of a loin roast are kinda high for me. OTOH, maybe I'll make
one this Sunday. Like they* say, "live a little, man!"

>
> I saw a recipe in yesterday's paper that sounded good. It called
> for a two pound pork loin roast. Not tenderloin, just loin.
>
> It said to inset some garlic into slits and then salt and pepper
> it and brown it in some olive oil.
>
> Then it said to add 3 carrots in pieces, two medium onions in
> quarters, a tablespoon each of chopped ginger and jalapeno, and a half
> cup of sun dried tomatoes in a cup of warm water. Nothing else, just
> those veggies and the liquid tossed on top of the browned roast.
>
> I have never braised a roast on the stovetop, which is my
> favorite and maybe only place to cook. It seems on first reading that
> the veggies called for might not be enough to prevent burning. But I
> know I've had this fear before with other things and wound up
> regretting adding water. So my question is, am I being too fearful
> here or does it sound as if the veggies and liquid are enough to do
> the job? I have never used sun dried tomatoes before but I've seen
> them. I have this planned for tomorrow night and am going forth with
> the plan regardless, and I am not going to open the lid on the pot
> until the roast is supposed to be done. Just kidding, I'll probably
> sneak a fearful peek or two. Thanks again to all responses, even the
> wise guys.
>
> TJ


*Mostly said by people trying to get you to buy stuff.

On 6/12/2012 9:56 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
> I know what you mean. I cooked a beef roast at 325F the other day. Did
> you know it took well over an hour for the roast's internal
> temperature to reach 140F? What gives?
>
> I think the answer in both cases is that pressure cookers transfer
> heat mostly via steam, while ovens transfer heat mostly via air.
>

I think you're right about this. Steaming is an interesting process.
When the steam hits the cooler food, it condenses on the surface and the
latent heat of the steam is released. It's the opposite of sweating
where the sweat changing into a gas absorbs heat. The energy it absorbs
will again be released when it either turns back into a gas or when it
freezes.

On 13/06/2012 3:55 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 6/12/2012 9:56 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>
>> I know what you mean. I cooked a beef roast at 325F the other day. Did
>> you know it took well over an hour for the roast's internal
>> temperature to reach 140F? What gives?
>>
>> I think the answer in both cases is that pressure cookers transfer
>> heat mostly via steam, while ovens transfer heat mostly via air.
>>
>
> I think you're right about this. Steaming is an interesting process.
> When the steam hits the cooler food, it condenses on the surface and the
> latent heat of the steam is released. It's the opposite of sweating
> where the sweat changing into a gas absorbs heat. The energy it absorbs
> will again be released when it either turns back into a gas or when it
> freezes.
>
>

I think you maybe wrong about that. You need a physics lesson. Water
changes to a gas vapour at 212F at sea level and at a lower temperature
at higher altitudes, so when you are cooking at sea level you water is
only going to heat up to 212F, though adding salt will raise the boiling
point a bit. Cooking under pressure allows the temperature to get up to
about 250 degrees, and the steam pressure is forced through the food.

On 6/13/2012 10:18 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 13/06/2012 3:55 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 6/12/2012 9:56 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>>
>>> I know what you mean. I cooked a beef roast at 325F the other day. Did
>>> you know it took well over an hour for the roast's internal
>>> temperature to reach 140F? What gives?
>>>
>>> I think the answer in both cases is that pressure cookers transfer
>>> heat mostly via steam, while ovens transfer heat mostly via air.
>>>
>>
>> I think you're right about this. Steaming is an interesting process.
>> When the steam hits the cooler food, it condenses on the surface and the
>> latent heat of the steam is released. It's the opposite of sweating
>> where the sweat changing into a gas absorbs heat. The energy it absorbs
>> will again be released when it either turns back into a gas or when it
>> freezes.
>>
>>
>
> I think you maybe wrong about that. You need a physics lesson. Water
> changes to a gas vapour at 212F at sea level and at a lower temperature
> at higher altitudes, so when you are cooking at sea level you water is
> only going to heat up to 212F, though adding salt will raise the boiling
> point a bit. Cooking under pressure allows the temperature to get up to
> about 250 degrees, and the steam pressure is forced through the food.

What part did I get wrong? Everything you said is pretty much correct
but my point was that water condensing on food is an efficient way to
cook. This was my little intro to simple phase change thermodynamics. If
you think you're better qualified, feel free. Pressure cooking is
probably mostly boiling but I have to believe that the steam condensing
on the food surface at 255 degrees has got to release a lot of heat.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:37:07 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>On 6/11/2012 7:43 PM, Tommy Joe wrote:
>>
>> I would like to thank all who answer in advance, even the wise-
>> crackers, as I intend to make this roast tomorrow whether I have the
>> correct info or not. But I will still read all responses and reply to
>> them at some point as always.
>
>I've never thought to braise a pork loin so I'd be interested in your
>results. Good luck! I'd probably just roast that sucker at low heat but
>the price of a loin roast are kinda high for me.

Loin of park is about as inexpensive as roasts get, costs less than
tube steak, usually a center cut is like $1.89/lb on sale... about the
same price as a can of SPAM.

On 13/06/2012 4:48 PM, dsi1 wrote:

>>> I think you're right about this. Steaming is an interesting process.
>>> When the steam hits the cooler food, it condenses on the surface and the
>>> latent heat of the steam is released. It's the opposite of sweating
>>> where the sweat changing into a gas absorbs heat. The energy it absorbs
>>> will again be released when it either turns back into a gas or when it
>>> freezes.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think you maybe wrong about that. You need a physics lesson. Water
>> changes to a gas vapour at 212F at sea level and at a lower temperature
>> at higher altitudes, so when you are cooking at sea level you water is
>> only going to heat up to 212F, though adding salt will raise the boiling
>> point a bit. Cooking under pressure allows the temperature to get up to
>> about 250 degrees, and the steam pressure is forced through the food.
>
> What part did I get wrong? Everything you said is pretty much correct
> but my point was that water condensing on food is an efficient way to
> cook.

And the primary point that I made was that the water is almost 40
degrees hotter and the pressure forces the steam into the food.


> This was my little intro to simple phase change thermodynamics. If
> you think you're better qualified, feel free. Pressure cooking is
> probably mostly boiling but I have to believe that the steam condensing
> on the food surface at 255 degrees has got to release a lot of heat.


You original comment addressed only the steam and made no mention of the
steam being so much hotter than no pressurized steam.

On 6/13/2012 11:12 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:37:07 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> On 6/11/2012 7:43 PM, Tommy Joe wrote:
>>>
>>> I would like to thank all who answer in advance, even the wise-
>>> crackers, as I intend to make this roast tomorrow whether I have the
>>> correct info or not. But I will still read all responses and reply to
>>> them at some point as always.
>>
>> I've never thought to braise a pork loin so I'd be interested in your
>> results. Good luck! I'd probably just roast that sucker at low heat but
>> the price of a loin roast are kinda high for me.
>
> Loin of park is about as inexpensive as roasts get, costs less than
> tube steak, usually a center cut is like $1.89/lb on sale... about the
> same price as a can of SPAM.

My guess is that a loin will cost me somewhere around $14. If you ask me
SPAM is getting too expensive.

On 6/13/2012 11:16 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 13/06/2012 4:48 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
>>>> I think you're right about this. Steaming is an interesting process.
>>>> When the steam hits the cooler food, it condenses on the surface and
>>>> the
>>>> latent heat of the steam is released. It's the opposite of sweating
>>>> where the sweat changing into a gas absorbs heat. The energy it absorbs
>>>> will again be released when it either turns back into a gas or when it
>>>> freezes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think you maybe wrong about that. You need a physics lesson. Water
>>> changes to a gas vapour at 212F at sea level and at a lower temperature
>>> at higher altitudes, so when you are cooking at sea level you water is
>>> only going to heat up to 212F, though adding salt will raise the boiling
>>> point a bit. Cooking under pressure allows the temperature to get up to
>>> about 250 degrees, and the steam pressure is forced through the food.
>>
>> What part did I get wrong? Everything you said is pretty much correct
>> but my point was that water condensing on food is an efficient way to
>> cook.
>
> And the primary point that I made was that the water is almost 40
> degrees hotter and the pressure forces the steam into the food.

I've never heard of this phenomenon of steam penetrating food. Is this
your own idea? It's a fascinating concept but I think it might not be true.

>
>
>> This was my little intro to simple phase change thermodynamics. If
>> you think you're better qualified, feel free. Pressure cooking is
>> probably mostly boiling but I have to believe that the steam condensing
>> on the food surface at 255 degrees has got to release a lot of heat.
>
>
> You original comment addressed only the steam and made no mention of the
> steam being so much hotter than no pressurized steam.

I wasn't talking about pressure - just steam. It stands to reason that
the dew point will be elevated under higher pressure. What you're saying
is obvious.

On Jun 12, 1:43*am, Tommy Joe > wrote:
> * * I would like to thank all who answer in advance, even the wise-
> crackers, as I intend to make this roast tomorrow whether I have the
> correct info or not. But I will still read all responses and reply to
> them at some point as always.
>
> * * I saw a recipe in yesterday's paper that sounded good. *It called
> for a two pound pork loin roast. *Not tenderloin, just loin.
>
> * * It said to inset some garlic into slits and then salt and pepper
> it and brown it in some olive oil.
>
> * * Then it said to add 3 carrots in pieces, two medium onions in
> quarters, a tablespoon each of chopped ginger and jalapeno, and a half
> cup of sun dried tomatoes in a cup of warm water. *Nothing else, just
> those veggies and the liquid tossed on top of the browned roast.
>
> * * * I have never braised a roast on the stovetop, which is my
> favorite and maybe only place to cook. *It seems on first reading that
> the veggies called for might not be enough to prevent burning. *But I
> know I've had this fear before with other things and wound up
> regretting adding water. *So my question is, am I being too fearful
> here or does it sound as if the veggies and liquid are enough to do
> the job? *I have never used sun dried tomatoes before but I've seen
> them. *I have this planned for tomorrow night and am going forth with
> the plan regardless, and I am not going to open the lid on the pot
> until the roast is supposed to be done. *Just kidding, I'll probably
> sneak a fearful peek or two. *Thanks again to all responses, even the
> wise guys.
>
> TJ

meat is murder. You criminal!

On Jun 13, 5:39*am, Gary > wrote:

> That's the story of my life. Anytime I find a product that I really like, I
> know it's days are numbered. *:-(


It ****es me off big time, especially with athletic shoes. With
shirts and pants I can buy at the thrift store. I wish they had a
good army/navy store around here. I'm not talking about the
camoflauge stuff, just good practical stuff like lightweight hiking
shoes and lightweight rip-top nylon pants, that sort of thing, where
you know what you bought will be there next time, and if it's not it
will have been replaced by something just as practical.

It really stresses me out. One good thing about getting old
though. The older you are, the greater your chance that whatever you
buy is going to last a life time.

TJ

On Jun 13, 10:41*am, spamtrap1888 > wrote:

> But then a Roots store opened in our area. And yes, those "Roots
> boots" were available, by special order. A few months later the store
> disappeared.


It's a dilemma for me because it's not only a financial issue -
running around hunting to buy things - but also an issue where I don't
like hoarding things. But I'm beginning to see - sometimes it takes
me a long time to wake up - that buying a locker of some sort might
not be a bad idea - someplace to store enough shoes to last the rest
of my life. Calculating one pair per year - life expectancy at 74 -
doubtful I'll go beyond it - from the age of 64 now - that would mean
if I found a good pair of shoes I should buy 10 of them and that
should be enough to tide me over till the earth swallows me up.

TJ

On Jun 13, 3:37*pm, dsi1 > wrote:

> I've never thought to braise a pork loin so I'd be interested in your
> results. Good luck! I'd probably just roast that sucker at low heat but
> the price of a loin roast are kinda high for me. OTOH, maybe I'll make
> one this Sunday. Like they* say, "live a little, man!"


I don't use my oven, so roasting out for me. It came out good
enough for me. First time doing this. First time using the sun dried
tomatoes. I got a feel for it now. The meat came out just a bit dry,
but I like it better dry than saturated. It was a two pounder that I
cooked on low for 90 minutes. I can see from this that I can go a bit
less next time. I also can see how I can now alter some of the
original recipe. It was a simple thing to do, except browning the
meat on high produced a lot of smoke and a somewhat scorches pan
bottom. It's a reasonably thick pot, but if I'm going to make a habit
of this method I might want to get one with a thicker bottom. I like
the way it came out. After letting it cool I put the roast - pretty
small actually - into an oblong plastic container and put it in the
fridge. I put the sauce into a separate small oval container so that
with each newly made plate I can ladle a bit of it out on to the meat
or taters or rice or whatever I have with it. I am pleased with the
results and what I learned and for all the advice coming from
everyone.

TJ

On Jun 13, 3:37*pm, dsi1 > wrote:

> I've never thought to braise a pork loin so I'd be interested in your
> results. Good luck! I'd probably just roast that sucker at low heat but
> the price of a loin roast are kinda high for me. OTOH, maybe I'll make
> one this Sunday. Like they* say, "live a little, man!"
uarters, a tablespoon each of chopped ginger and jalapeno, and a half


I also think that next time I'm going to keep the lid cracked the
whole time, just a crack. I had it on most of the time, but I'm
thinking maybe it's better cracked because with the lid on I think it
gets hotter in the pot and the water bubbles more than I'd like. When
I cracked the lid I noticed the bubbles occurred at a lower rate,
which I think is good.

TJ

On 6/14/2012 8:11 PM, Tommy Joe wrote:
>
> I don't use my oven, so roasting out for me. It came out good
> enough for me. First time doing this. First time using the sun dried
> tomatoes. I got a feel for it now. The meat came out just a bit dry,
> but I like it better dry than saturated. It was a two pounder that I
> cooked on low for 90 minutes. I can see from this that I can go a bit
> less next time. I also can see how I can now alter some of the
> original recipe. It was a simple thing to do, except browning the
> meat on high produced a lot of smoke and a somewhat scorches pan
> bottom. It's a reasonably thick pot, but if I'm going to make a habit
> of this method I might want to get one with a thicker bottom. I like
> the way it came out. After letting it cool I put the roast - pretty
> small actually - into an oblong plastic container and put it in the
> fridge. I put the sauce into a separate small oval container so that
> with each newly made plate I can ladle a bit of it out on to the meat
> or taters or rice or whatever I have with it. I am pleased with the
> results and what I learned and for all the advice coming from
> everyone.
>
> TJ

My two favorite braised pork dishes are pork adobo and Okinawan shoyu
pork. Mostly I use cut-up pork butt. I use whole peppercorns in the
adobo and just love biting into a whole pepper. The wife and kids mostly
complain about this ingredient but they're just wimps anyway.

On 6/14/2012 8:14 PM, Tommy Joe wrote:
> On Jun 13, 3:37 pm, > wrote:
>
>> I've never thought to braise a pork loin so I'd be interested in your
>> results. Good luck! I'd probably just roast that sucker at low heat but
>> the price of a loin roast are kinda high for me. OTOH, maybe I'll make
>> one this Sunday. Like they* say, "live a little, man!"
> uarters, a tablespoon each of chopped ginger and jalapeno, and a half
>
>
> I also think that next time I'm going to keep the lid cracked the
> whole time, just a crack. I had it on most of the time, but I'm
> thinking maybe it's better cracked because with the lid on I think it
> gets hotter in the pot and the water bubbles more than I'd like. When
> I cracked the lid I noticed the bubbles occurred at a lower rate,
> which I think is good.
>
> TJ

I simmer with a lid on usually. If I need to reduce the liquid, I'll
remove the lid or lay it on goofy. In a dish like pork adobo, I like to
serve it "dry" and will remove the cover to evaporate all the liquid in
the pan and then finish frying the meat in the same pan. I think that's
a Portuguese cooking technique.

Tommy Joe wrote:
>
> One good thing about getting old
> though. The older you are, the greater your chance that whatever you
> buy is going to last a life time.

LOL! Good point! ;-D

On 6/13/2012 5:12 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> Loin of park is about as inexpensive as roasts get, costs less than
> tube steak, usually a center cut is like $1.89/lb on sale... about the
> same price as a can of SPAM.

For people who live week to week it can be expensive to buy food that's
more than one or two meals. You can't get a pork loin roast that weighs
like 1/2 pound, at least from what I've seen. Some of us are lucky
enough to buy food that lasts several meals and can even freeze
leftovers. It actually can be cheaper (not by the pound) to buy a pack
of hot dogs when one is out shopping with just a small amount of funds.

On Jun 15, 6:00*pm, dsi1 > wrote:

> My two favorite braised pork dishes are pork adobo and Okinawan shoyu
> pork. Mostly I use cut-up pork butt. I use whole peppercorns in the
> adobo and just love biting into a whole pepper. The wife and kids mostly
> complain about this ingredient but they're just wimps anyway.


I am the same as your wife and kids, the whole corn seems a bit
intrusive. I made the pork dish, first time I ever braised anything.
I used a pork loin rib end. Maybe it's not as good as the loin by
itself, I don't know. But I do know it came out pretty well and was a
really easy thing to make except for the pot getting kind of burnt up
during the browning process. It's a decent pot, a soup pot with a
bottom that is not bad, but maybe I should have a thicker one.
Anyway, I don't like using the stove, only the stovetop, so for me to
discover that I can make a roast this way is great. When I simmered
them before they got sort of saturated. The browning and using less
broth seems scary at first, but now I have a feel for what is needed
and can begin to alter things a bit, not go so much by the book. I'll
try to remember about the cut up pork butt next time I'm up in the day
and there's a butcher to talk with. But I'll tell you, some of those
guys are helpful, but I don't think they know as much as we'd like to
think. Some are not official butchers anyway, just guys with white
coats working the meat department in the same way an entire hospital
staff wear doctorish outfits even if their only job is to wheel people
in and out of the x-ray room.

TJ

On Jun 15, 6:08*pm, dsi1 > wrote:

> I simmer with a lid on usually. If I need to reduce the liquid, I'll
> remove the lid or lay it on goofy. In a dish like pork adobo, I like to
> serve it "dry" and will remove the cover to evaporate all the liquid in
> the pan and then finish frying the meat in the same pan. I think that's
> a Portuguese cooking technique.



I cooked that roast for and hour and a half as it called for. I
think less time would have been ok. I had the lid on most of the
time, cracking it only for the last half hour. Without an knowledge
of what I was doing I just sort of had the feeling that keeping the
lid on would steam it, but cracking it would roast it. Just a
feeling. I never used sun dried tomatoes before. Can't say I love the
taste, but they sure do create a nice thin natural-like sauce that I
like. I was pleased with it and will be eating it for the usual six
days from the time of cooking, unless I run out first. Then I'll be
dragging out the red beans and rice.

TJ

On Jun 15, 6:23*pm, Gary > wrote:


> > One good thing about getting old
> > though. The older you are, the greater your chance that whatever you
> > buy is going to last a life time.



> LOL! *Good point! *;-D



Not gonna lie, it was not an impromptu remark, it's one I thought
of a few years ago. I've heard similar ones told by standup comics.
I like mine more. But one I heard from a standup comic who was up
there in years was something about not being afraid to buy ripe
bananas as buying green ones might be a waste of money if he doesn't
make it through the week alive. Something like that, can't remember.
But I like the sentiment, it's sort of true. But watch out, you know
Murphy's law. Just when you think you only have a few years left and
plan things around your estimated time of departure - you find out
you're healthier than you thought and you might have to keep buying
things and fixing things into your 80s or beyond.

I saw something funny on Mad Men two weeks ago. A british guy at
the ad firm got fired and was very stressed about it. Next time we
see him it's in a parking garage below ground. We see his car as the
camera pans in to find a hose coming from the exhaust pipe through a
small crack in the driver's window.

Now the camera is on him in the front seat. He slugs down a
bottle of booze and takes a deep breath. He says to himself, this is
it, as he takes off his glasses and snaps the frames in half. "What
the hell, I won't be needed these." Then he goes to start the car.
It's a push button type. It shows his finger on the button. The car
cranks but it won't start. He tries it about 4 times.

The next scene we see the guy outside his car bending over near
the rear end trying to check out the exhaust pipe, to see where the
problem's coming from. He's crouched low, bending in to examine it
with a single frame from his broken glasses held up to one eye looking
in real close like Sherlock Holmes using a magnifying glass. The
first thing this guy broke figuring he'd never need it again were his
glasses, and they were the first thing he turned to when his suicide
bid failed. Funny stuff.

TJ

On Jun 15, 11:48*pm, Cheryl > wrote:

> For people who live week to week it can be expensive to buy food that's
> more than one or two meals. *You can't get a pork loin roast that weighs
> like 1/2 pound, at least from what I've seen. Some of us are lucky
> enough to buy food that lasts several meals and can even freeze
> leftovers. *It actually can be cheaper (not by the pound) to buy a pack
> of hot dogs when one is out shopping with just a small amount of funds.


In my opinion I have decent taste. I bought a pork loin rib end
roast for my first shot at braising something. I can't compare it to
others and won't even try. All I know is it's not expensive and it
turned out pretty darned good. Good enough for me. I was like 5
dollars for 2 pounds, as cheap as hot dogs without all the salt.
Actually, you probably already know this, a lot of cheaper foods are
not only better for you but also in some ways better tasting. Some,
not all. I think our boy brooklyn1 likes playing the know-it-all -
it's his new yawk nature.

TJ

Cheryl wrote:
>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> Loin of park is about as inexpensive as roasts get, costs less than
>> tube steak, usually a center cut is like $1.89/lb on sale... about the
>> same price as a can of SPAM.
>
>For people who live week to week it can be expensive to buy food that's
>more than one or two meals. You can't get a pork loin roast that weighs
>like 1/2 pound, at least from what I've seen. Some of us are lucky
>enough to buy food that lasts several meals and can even freeze
>leftovers. It actually can be cheaper (not by the pound) to buy a pack
>of hot dogs when one is out shopping with just a small amount of funds.

Roasts can be cut in half... pork roasts especially can be partially
cut into chops... cutting your own chops makes them nearly half price.
Let me put it another way, pork loin roasts are about as *economical*
as roasts get. When pork loin is on sale I'll buy the entire bone-in
loin and cut it to my specs myself.