Pico Rico wrote:
> "George Leppla" > wrote:
>> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>>> Absolutely. Plenty more. The press chose to broadcast a part of the
>>> video again and again. They only broadcast the entire video the day
>>> after it was released. I saw it the day it was released. I described
>>> it a couple of messages up in the thread. King initiating combat. King
>>> tossing at least one office across the hood of his car and knocking
>>> down at least one other officer. King getting tased multiple times and
>>> just brushing the wires off of himself.
>
>> Agreed... but once King was on all fours and then lying flat on the
>> ground, the threat was over and the beating should have stopped.
>
>> He was hit numerous times AFTER he was down and no longer posed a threat.
>
> How do you know he no longer posed a threat? "never kick a man when he's
> down - high might get up!"
>
> He was flying high, brushing off tasers - I would consider him quite likely
> to get up and cause more harm.

For a lot of the blows while he was down he kept trying to get back up.
So the blows continued. They did continue past the point he finally
stopped trying to get back up. By then it was a miracle they hadn't
shot him.

Did the blows stop later than they should have? Hindsight is 20-20. We
know that's the case now.

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:20:15 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>
> > Over the course of my life I have encountered a number of people with drug
> > and alcohol problems. In most cases they started off as assholes and they
> > thought that being drunk or stoned made them cool. In too many cases they
> > get out to get high because they thought it allowed them to act out ways
> > they would never be allowed to if they were sober. For some reason, they
> > think that your behaviour has to be excused when you're high because
> > you're just having fun.
>
> What you are describing is a real effect, but one that only involves
> a subset of the population: that subset which is so repressed that
> they need an excuse for behaving in any sort of non-normative manner.

The stories I could never believe were from the people who claimed
amnesia after a hard night's drinking.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:20:15 +0000 (UTC),

>(Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>
>> > Over the course of my life I have encountered a number of people with drug
>> > and alcohol problems. In most cases they started off as assholes and they
>> > thought that being drunk or stoned made them cool. In too many cases they
>> > get out to get high because they thought it allowed them to act out ways
>> > they would never be allowed to if they were sober. For some reason, they
>> > think that your behaviour has to be excused when you're high because
>> > you're just having fun.
>>
>> What you are describing is a real effect, but one that only involves
>> a subset of the population: that subset which is so repressed that
>> they need an excuse for behaving in any sort of non-normative manner.

>The stories I could never believe were from the people who claimed
>amnesia after a hard night's drinking.

Most people can remember everything that happens until just about
the point they collapse into alcoholic unconsciousness, but people
differ. Some individuals do not form memories as well as other
individuals; some form conflated memories, and it gets worse when
they are impaired.

But most, probably, are just wishing they didn't remember. :-)


Steve

"Doug Freyburger" > wrote in message
...
> Farm1 wrote:
>> "Doug Freyburger" > wrote:
>>
>>> There was more to the tape than the part broadcast again and again.
>>
>> I've asked this question before and no-one answered: is there a fuller
>> footage than the one that picks up on what happened after King was tased?
>
> Absolutely. Plenty more. The press chose to broadcast a part of the
> video again and again. They only broadcast the entire video the day
> after it was released. I saw it the day it was released.

I should have been more specific in my question - sorry.

Do you know if there is any footage that can be seen online? I had already
read your post (or perhaps it was someone else's) about there having been a
fuller footage seen on TV on or near the day of the incident.

On 21/06/2012 2:58 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> Farm1 wrote:
>> "Doug Freyburger" > wrote:
>>
>>> There was more to the tape than the part broadcast again and again.
>>
>> I've asked this question before and no-one answered: is there a fuller
>> footage than the one that picks up on what happened after King was tased?
>
> Absolutely. Plenty more. The press chose to broadcast a part of the
> video again and again. They only broadcast the entire video the day
> after it was released. I saw it the day it was released. I described
> it a couple of messages up in the thread. King initiating combat. King
> tossing at least one office across the hood of his car and knocking
> down at least one other officer. King getting tased multiple times and
> just brushing the wires off of himself.



Yep. That was my issue with the arm chair critics who leapt to King's
defence after seeing the edited version. Most of the public saw only the
well edited version, the one that only showed King getting whacked, not
the unedited version that showed the actions on his part that led to him
being subjected to more and more force. It was that obviously biased
video and a sense of distrust and reverse racism that led to riots
breaking out when the cops were acquitted.

Then there is the distortion that some of the viewers of the video added
to the mix. Someone here posted about the racial slurs and cops lining
up to take their turn.





>
> Plus the event was old when the video started. There was the reason so
> many police were after him in the first place. The high speed chase
> that was not taped that had many police as eye witness participants.
> How would there be so many police around if the event started when the
> tape started? How would there be so many police aound if the event
> started when the imflamitory part of the tape that got broadcast so many
> times? They were there because of events that happened off camera
> before then.
>

On 21/06/2012 3:57 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
He was hit numerous times AFTER he was down and no longer posed a threat.
>
>
> How do you know he no longer posed a threat? "never kick a man when he's
> down - high might get up!"
>
> He was flying high, brushing off tasers - I would consider him quite likely
> to get up and cause more harm.
>
>

We had a similar sort of event here when a newly arrived immigrant from
Vancouver who, for some reason, could not find his way out of the
arrivals area and got stuck in there for hours. He got frustrated and
started acting out violently, throwing computers and furniture. He had
ended up getting tasered...several times and died. He had stapler in
his hand and the arm chair critics whines that a stapler could not be a
weapon.

My brother, a retired cop, told me about a case of the cops shooting a
guy who was coming at them with a baseball bat and they thought it wrong
to shoot someone armed only<?> with a bat. He said that she could show
them pictures of brains on a wall, the result of a strike to the head
with a baseball bat.

On 22/06/2012 1:49 AM, Steve Pope wrote:

> Most people can remember everything that happens until just about
> the point they collapse into alcoholic unconsciousness, but people
> differ. Some individuals do not form memories as well as other
> individuals; some form conflated memories, and it gets worse when
> they are impaired.
>
> But most, probably, are just wishing they didn't remember. :-)
>
>


LoL , reminds me of a stupid old joke where a person is asked if they
woke up in a hotel with a hangover, and there ass was sore and smeared
with Vaseline would they tell anyone..... and when the person says no,
ask if they want to go to a party.


I know... it's a bad joke.

On 6/22/2012 9:54 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> Yep. That was my issue with the arm chair critics who leapt to King's
> defence after seeing the edited version. Most of the public saw only the
> well edited version, the one that only showed King getting whacked, not
> the unedited version that showed the actions on his part that led to him
> being subjected to more and more force.



I've got no problem with police using whatever force is necessary to
protect themselves and other from violence. But once the threat is
over, the beating should stop and in King's case, it didn't.

The beatings continued AFTER King stopped being a threat. That is the
part that I object to.

George L

On 22/06/2012 11:23 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/22/2012 9:54 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> Yep. That was my issue with the arm chair critics who leapt to King's
>> defence after seeing the edited version. Most of the public saw only the
>> well edited version, the one that only showed King getting whacked, not
>> the unedited version that showed the actions on his part that led to him
>> being subjected to more and more force.
>
>
>
> I've got no problem with police using whatever force is necessary to
> protect themselves and other from violence. But once the threat is
> over, the beating should stop and in King's case, it didn't.
>
> The beatings continued AFTER King stopped being a threat. That is the
> part that I object to.

I agree. We weren't there and didn't see enough of what was going on.

FWIW... I hate to support American cops when it comes to excessive use
of force. We have a few bad apples here, but IMO Canadian cops tend to
be much better trained and act in a more professional manner. I used to
always find American cops intimidating. I used to see them twirling
their billy sticks and they had their guns hanging out ready to use.

It is rare for cops here to shoot people. If they do, they had better be
able to prove that the person was armed and dangerous and coming at them
because they are likely to be charged if they do. Most cops who shoot a
person get charged. Most of them are acquitted, but they still have to
go through the hassle of the trial.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:49:33 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> But most, probably, are just wishing they didn't remember. :-)

That's what I figured. My opinion was that they were probably acting
so stupid, it was easier to claim they didn't remember than to live it
down.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:23:31 -0500, George Leppla
> wrote:

> The beatings continued AFTER King stopped being a threat. That is the
> part that I object to.

Agreed. I didn't feel sorry for him because he deserved to be
arrested and resisting arrest has consequences, but he didn't deserve
to be almost beaten to death.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> LoL , reminds me of a stupid old joke where a person is asked if they
> woke up in a hotel with a hangover, and there ass was sore and smeared
> with Vaseline would they tell anyone..... and when the person says no,
> ask if they want to go to a party.
>
> I know... it's a bad joke.

What?

sf wrote:

> Agreed. I didn't feel sorry for him because he deserved to be
> arrested and resisting arrest has consequences, but he didn't deserve
> to be almost beaten to death.

The odd thing is that after the cops beat his head in, he was smarter.

sf wrote:
>
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:23:31 -0500, George Leppla
> > wrote:
>
> > The beatings continued AFTER King stopped being a threat. That is the
> > part that I object to.
>
> Agreed. I didn't feel sorry for him because he deserved to be
> arrested and resisting arrest has consequences, but he didn't deserve
> to be almost beaten to death.

Just for the record...and in hindsight-
If I knew I would get the crap beaten out of me but still survive it in fair
shape, I would gladly go through that few minute ordeal to end with an award
of 3.8 million dollars.

Gary

On 22/06/2012 11:51 AM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:23:31 -0500, George Leppla
> > wrote:
>
>> The beatings continued AFTER King stopped being a threat. That is the
>> part that I object to.
>
> Agreed. I didn't feel sorry for him because he deserved to be
> arrested and resisting arrest has consequences, but he didn't deserve
> to be almost beaten to death.
>


Thing is, as serious a whopping as he got, it was not a life threating
beating. He got whacked in the arms and the legs. A blow to the head
might have been lethal, but they did not hit him in the head.

On 6/22/2012 11:34 AM, Dave Smith wrote:

> It is rare for cops here to shoot people. If they do, they had better be
> able to prove that the person was armed and dangerous and coming at them
> because they are likely to be charged if they do. Most cops who shoot a
> person get charged. Most of them are acquitted, but they still have to
> go through the hassle of the trial.

The hassle of a trial vs. the hassle of someone dead or maimed? What a
way with words you have Dave.

On 22/06/2012 7:31 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> On 6/22/2012 11:34 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> It is rare for cops here to shoot people. If they do, they had better be
>> able to prove that the person was armed and dangerous and coming at them
>> because they are likely to be charged if they do. Most cops who shoot a
>> person get charged. Most of them are acquitted, but they still have to
>> go through the hassle of the trial.
>
> The hassle of a trial vs. the hassle of someone dead or maimed? What a
> way with words you have Dave.


There seems to be world of difference between what cops can do in the US
compared to what they can do here. The same goes for private citizens.
You just can't get away with shooting at people.... legally. If you use
a firearm in self defense you are pretty well guaranteed that you will
be charged.

On Jun 21, 2:58*pm, Doug Freyburger > wrote:
Farm1 wrote:

> > I've asked this question before and no-one answered: is there a fuller
> > footage than the one that picks up on what happened after King was tased?


> Absolutely. *Plenty more. *The press chose to broadcast a part of the
> video again and again. *They only broadcast the entire video the day
> after it was released. *I saw it the day it was released. *I described
> it a couple of messages up in the thread. King initiating combat. King
> tossing at least one office across the hood of his car and knocking
> down at least one other officer. King getting tased multiple times and
> just brushing the wires off of himself.


This is interesting - the tape and what we saw of it. I saw the
original and I don't see how King initiating it has anything to do
with what followed? Point is, regardless of how one interprets the
tapes, whole or edited, with or without music, whatever - what does
this have to do with the thousands of similar scenes that many have
seen all too many times - me among them - that were not taped but can
be played only in the brains of those who saw them in person?

TJ

On Jun 22, 5:18 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:

> Thing is, as serious a whopping as he got, it was not a life threating
> beating. He got whacked in the arms and the legs. A blow to the head
> might have been lethal, but they did not hit him in the head.


How nice. Maybe they were saving his head for some station work -
you know, for the guys who weren't at the scene and missed out.

TJ

On Jun 22, 6:18*pm, MotoFox > wrote:

> I've driven through "Californy" a few times since, but I've tried my best
> to avoid L.A. outright......


When I stayed in Hollywood and hung at the poolroom, everyone there
was from somewhere else, almost. So I heard lots of stories about the
cops and jails of one town vs another - a virtual fight over which
town has the worst cops and jails - and if you were in jail in a town
where no one else had been, then of course you could really lay it on
thick - who's going to argue with you? I think it's pretty much the
same all over. Here for example, the cops will miss with you when
you're driving - around 2am they're out there 'fishing' for drunks -
but overall they're nothing like they were in LA. However, once you
go to court - look out - it's even worse.

I went in 18 years ago to plead innocent to not stopping
completely at a stop sign. I took in what I thought the fine would
be, plus court costs. They would not let me speak. A woman got up
and began to point at me, saying I was in the office weeks before
telling her I wanted a trial and didn't care if I got fined $100. I
never said that. She stood up out of nowhere and took the floor. I
tried to speak and was told to shut up. The judge said, "Sorry, gonna
have to fine you $100." I sat down and the bailiff came over. Exact
words - "Got the money?" I said yes and pulled out the $110 I had
taken in thinking that was enough. The bailiff said, "No, no, not
$100 - it's $160." I told him I had $110 with me. He told me to
stand up and turn around. He put the cuffs on me and I was put in a
tank. My one call I made to my brother who no longer lives here. I
asked him to bring the rest. They nailed me to the cross for pleading
innocent without a lawyer. Had my brother not been around I have no
idea how long they would have held me. I try to avoid the law,
doctors, and dentists as much as possible. But sometimes we're forced
to deal with them, even if it's forced on us by them.

To hell with 'em all,
TJ

On Jun 22, 8:30*pm, MotoFox > wrote:

> Whereas if another normal guy shot another normal guy down there, that's
> pretty much a guaranteed "20-to-life-with-no-hope-of-parole".



When I lived in LA for 23 years I saw a lot of people come through
the poolroom who sided with the police over nearly every dispute. The
funny thing is that before long most of them had some form of unwanted
dealing with the cops that cost them money or time or maybe more - and
a great percentage of these cop lovers became cop haters in not too
long a time.

One time - (fortunately, that day I was broke and couldn't play),
a group of guys were playing tonk, a simple gin type card game - and
they were playing a quarter and dime limit. I was shooting pool by
myself. I worked there and that was my payment - free pool and all
the beer I could drink.

On a separate table there were some construction worker types
drinking beer and playing a game among themselves. They were on that
table for more than an hour. I left before they did. When I came
back I found that that group of players were cops in "disguise" who
wound up busting all 6 guys in the 25 cent tonk game and taking them
down for bail money which I'm sure none of them ever got back. The
reality is, no matter how bad things are - and they're bad - they're
not bad enough to justify the amount of cops we have in this country.

Kill the ****ers now - I would join in, but I'm getting a little old -
please, do it for me
TJ