Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.

I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:

Brown beef with onions
Add to water
Add other veggies
boil
add curry block
simmer for a while

The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
simmering for a really long time?

alan wrote:

> Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
>
> I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
>
> Brown beef with onions
> Add to water
> Add other veggies
> boil
> add curry block
> simmer for a while
>
> The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
> during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
> and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
> simmering for a really long time?

Some beef (eg chuck steak) needs 3-4 hours simmering to get tender.

Only add vegetables at beginning, & curry/salt/spices at end. Otherwise
osmosis will make beef shrink.

gtoomey

alan wrote:

> Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
>
> I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
>
> Brown beef with onions
> Add to water
> Add other veggies
> boil
> add curry block
> simmer for a while
>
> The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
> during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
> and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
> simmering for a really long time?

Some beef (eg chuck steak) needs 3-4 hours simmering to get tender.

Only add vegetables at beginning, & curry/salt/spices at end. Otherwise
osmosis will make beef shrink.

gtoomey

Incredulously, alan > wrote in news:cm4ic0$cve
:

> Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
>
> I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
>
> Brown beef with onions
> Add to water
> Add other veggies
> boil
> add curry block
> simmer for a while
>
> The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
> during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
> and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
> simmering for a really long time?

All beef will shrink during these stages of cooking. If you want larger
pieces, anticipate the shrinkage and cut it in larger chunks.

Almost any cut of beef intended for stew or soup requires several hours
of long slow simmering to become tender. Cook at a slow simmer rather
than at a boil.

After thorough browning, I usually cook meat intended for stew or soup in
a pressure cooker. Larger chunks for stew take about 20-25 minutes;
smaller pieces for soup take only about 15 minutes. In both cases, after
pressure cooking in some of the recipe's liquid, the remaining liquid and
other ingredients are added and further cooking is done to complete the
dish. This would work perfectly for your curry.

--
Wayne in Phoenix

*If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
*A mind is a terrible thing to lose.

"Gregory Toomey" > wrote in message
...
> alan wrote:
>
> > Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
> >
> > I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
> >
> > Brown beef with onions
> > Add to water
> > Add other veggies
> > boil
> > add curry block
> > simmer for a while
> >
> > The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
> > during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
> > and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
> > simmering for a really long time?
>
> Some beef (eg chuck steak) needs 3-4 hours simmering to get tender.
>
> Only add vegetables at beginning, & curry/salt/spices at end. Otherwise
> osmosis will make beef shrink.
>
> gtoomey

You're right that stew beef needs a lot of simmering to be tender - but that
osmisis idea is nonsense. Spices should go in at the beginning so they can
permeate all the ingredients. I don;t think there is anyu way to prevent
shrinkage.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

> > > Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
> > >
> > > I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
> > >
> > > Brown beef with onions
> > > Add to water
> > > Add other veggies
> > > boil
> > > add curry block
> > > simmer for a while
> > >
> > > The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
> > > during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
> > > and get hard.

>>>Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
> > > simmering for a really long time?

Yes; use a better cut of meat, such as tenderloin cut into cubes. It will
also shrink but will be much more tender.

Stew meat is the cheap, tough parts that are generally either (or both)
marinated in an acidic solution to tenderize or cooked slow. However, what
is your objection to slow cooking? With a crockpot or slow cooker, the
stew/curry/tough-cut can be cooked while you sleep and come out very tender.
Just before bed last night, I put a top round roast in the slow cooker with
a half-cup of burgundy wine and 1.5 cups of water, sliced onion, minced
garlic, salt and pepper. When I awakened this morning, I had an incredibly
tender, flavorful roast.

Any tough meat should be cooked "low and slow"; bbq, stew etc. all use the
tough cuts and are cooked low and slow to make tender.

If the problem is you don't have a slow cooker and don't want to spend the
$25-35, go to a yard sale or thrift store and get one for less than $5.

On 1-Nov-2004, "L" > wrote:

> > > > Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
> > > >
> > > > I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
> > > >
> > > > Brown beef with onions
> > > > Add to water
> > > > Add other veggies
> > > > boil
> > > > add curry block
> > > > simmer for a while
> > > >
> > > > The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
> > > > during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to
> > > > shrink
> > > > and get hard.
>
> >>>Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
> > > > simmering for a really long time?
>
> Yes; use a better cut of meat, such as tenderloin cut into cubes. It will
> also shrink but will be much more tender.
>
> Stew meat is the cheap, tough parts that are generally either (or both)
> marinated in an acidic solution to tenderize or cooked slow. However,
> what
> is your objection to slow cooking? With a crockpot or slow cooker, the
> stew/curry/tough-cut can be cooked while you sleep and come out very
> tender.
> Just before bed last night, I put a top round roast in the slow cooker
> with
> a half-cup of burgundy wine and 1.5 cups of water, sliced onion, minced
> garlic, salt and pepper. When I awakened this morning, I had an
> incredibly
> tender, flavorful roast.
>
> Any tough meat should be cooked "low and slow"; bbq, stew etc. all use the
> tough cuts and are cooked low and slow to make tender.
>
> If the problem is you don't have a slow cooker and don't want to spend the
> $25-35, go to a yard sale or thrift store and get one for less than $5.

I failed to address shrinkage, which is caused by the loss of fat and water
from the meat. When you cook the meat for long time, the connective tissue
breaks down and tenderizes the meat. When this happens, it also "loosens"
the texture, allowing moisture from the pot back into the meat. The meat
will be moist, tender, but still smaller than when you started because the
fat has melted away; the fatter the meat, the more shrinkage.

alan wrote:

> Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
>
> I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
>
> Brown beef with onions
> Add to water
> Add other veggies
> boil
> add curry block
> simmer for a while
>
> The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
> during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
> and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
> simmering for a really long time?

Braising takes time. It is a good way to cook those cheap and tougher
cuts of meat to give them some flavour and texture. The trick is to
quickly brown the meat and then simmer it slowly for several hours.
Basically you have the choice of cooking it hot and fast and getting small
hard nuggets of meat, or you can take your time and get something that is
juicy and tender.

Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Gregory Toomey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> alan wrote:
>>
>> > Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
>> >
>> > I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
>> >
>> > Brown beef with onions
>> > Add to water
>> > Add other veggies
>> > boil
>> > add curry block
>> > simmer for a while
>> >
>> > The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
>> > during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
>> > and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
>> > simmering for a really long time?
>>
>> Some beef (eg chuck steak) needs 3-4 hours simmering to get tender.
>>
>> Only add vegetables at beginning, & curry/salt/spices at end. Otherwise
>> osmosis will make beef shrink.
>>
>> gtoomey
>
> You're right that stew beef needs a lot of simmering to be tender - but
> that osmisis idea is nonsense. Spices should go in at the beginning so
> they can permeate all the ingredients. I don;t think there is anyu way to
> prevent shrinkage.
>
>

Thinking again, salt should go in at the beginning.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking...es-flavor.html
"Brining meat (that is, putting meat into a salt-water solution) adds
moisture to the meat through osmosis. Osmosis happens when water flows from
a lower concentration of a solution to a higher concentration through a
semipermeable membrane. In meat, this membrane is the plasma membrane that
surrounds the individual cells. When meat is placed in a brine, the meat's
cell fluids are less concentrated than the salt water in the brining
solution. Water flows out of the cells in the meat and salt flows in. The
salt then dissolves some of the fiber proteins, and the meat's cell fluids
become more concentrated, thus drawing water back in. Brining adds salt and
water to the cells so that when the meat is cooked and water is squeezed
out, there is still water left in the cells because water was added before
cooking."

gtoomey

Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Gregory Toomey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> alan wrote:
>>
>> > Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
>> >
>> > I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
>> >
>> > Brown beef with onions
>> > Add to water
>> > Add other veggies
>> > boil
>> > add curry block
>> > simmer for a while
>> >
>> > The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
>> > during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
>> > and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
>> > simmering for a really long time?
>>
>> Some beef (eg chuck steak) needs 3-4 hours simmering to get tender.
>>
>> Only add vegetables at beginning, & curry/salt/spices at end. Otherwise
>> osmosis will make beef shrink.
>>
>> gtoomey
>
> You're right that stew beef needs a lot of simmering to be tender - but
> that osmisis idea is nonsense. Spices should go in at the beginning so
> they can permeate all the ingredients. I don;t think there is anyu way to
> prevent shrinkage.
>
>

Thinking again, salt should go in at the beginning.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking...es-flavor.html
"Brining meat (that is, putting meat into a salt-water solution) adds
moisture to the meat through osmosis. Osmosis happens when water flows from
a lower concentration of a solution to a higher concentration through a
semipermeable membrane. In meat, this membrane is the plasma membrane that
surrounds the individual cells. When meat is placed in a brine, the meat's
cell fluids are less concentrated than the salt water in the brining
solution. Water flows out of the cells in the meat and salt flows in. The
salt then dissolves some of the fiber proteins, and the meat's cell fluids
become more concentrated, thus drawing water back in. Brining adds salt and
water to the cells so that when the meat is cooked and water is squeezed
out, there is still water left in the cells because water was added before
cooking."

gtoomey

Try soaking your beef in bicarb of soda and water for about half an hour,
(any longer and it goes slimy as it gets digested). This is how a lot of
chinese restaurants make their 'fillet' steak, when it's really shin beef,
but it does make the tastier cuts of beef as tender as fillet!
You can cook it as quick as you like after soaking, but be sure to rinse off
bicarb, and brown meat, I'm sure it must kill off most of the goodness
though!
Sarah
"Gregory Toomey" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Aitken wrote:
>
>> "Gregory Toomey" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> alan wrote:
>>>
>>> > Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
>>> >
>>> > I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
>>> >
>>> > Brown beef with onions
>>> > Add to water
>>> > Add other veggies
>>> > boil
>>> > add curry block
>>> > simmer for a while
>>> >
>>> > The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
>>> > during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
>>> > and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
>>> > simmering for a really long time?
>>>
>>> Some beef (eg chuck steak) needs 3-4 hours simmering to get tender.
>>>
>>> Only add vegetables at beginning, & curry/salt/spices at end. Otherwise
>>> osmosis will make beef shrink.
>>>
>>> gtoomey
>>
>> You're right that stew beef needs a lot of simmering to be tender - but
>> that osmisis idea is nonsense. Spices should go in at the beginning so
>> they can permeate all the ingredients. I don;t think there is anyu way to
>> prevent shrinkage.
>>
>>
>
> Thinking again, salt should go in at the beginning.
>
> http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking...es-flavor.html
> "Brining meat (that is, putting meat into a salt-water solution) adds
> moisture to the meat through osmosis. Osmosis happens when water flows
> from
> a lower concentration of a solution to a higher concentration through a
> semipermeable membrane. In meat, this membrane is the plasma membrane that
> surrounds the individual cells. When meat is placed in a brine, the meat's
> cell fluids are less concentrated than the salt water in the brining
> solution. Water flows out of the cells in the meat and salt flows in. The
> salt then dissolves some of the fiber proteins, and the meat's cell fluids
> become more concentrated, thus drawing water back in. Brining adds salt
> and
> water to the cells so that when the meat is cooked and water is squeezed
> out, there is still water left in the cells because water was added before
> cooking."
>
> gtoomey

Gregory Toomey wrote:

> Peter Aitken wrote:
>
>
>>"Gregory Toomey" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>alan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Disclaimer: I suck at cooking.
>>>>
>>>>I am trying to make a curry recipe that basically goes like this:
>>>>
>>>>Brown beef with onions
>>>>Add to water
>>>>Add other veggies
>>>>boil
>>>>add curry block
>>>>simmer for a while
>>>>
>>>>The problem is this: Even though I don't try to over-cook the beef
>>>>during the browning part, when I start boiling it, it tends to shrink
>>>>and get hard. Is there a way I can prevent this, without resorting to
>>>>simmering for a really long time?
>>>
>>>Some beef (eg chuck steak) needs 3-4 hours simmering to get tender.
>>>
>>>Only add vegetables at beginning, & curry/salt/spices at end. Otherwise
>>>osmosis will make beef shrink.
>>>
>>>gtoomey
>>
>>You're right that stew beef needs a lot of simmering to be tender - but
>>that osmisis idea is nonsense. Spices should go in at the beginning so
>>they can permeate all the ingredients. I don;t think there is anyu way to
>>prevent shrinkage.
>>
> Thinking again, salt should go in at the beginning.

*Some* salt should go in at the beginning. No more than about half
what you think the finished dish will need. You're not creating a
brine with the little bit of salt that's put into foods normally.

> http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking...es-flavor.html
> "Brining meat (that is, putting meat into a salt-water solution) adds
> moisture to the meat through osmosis. Osmosis happens when water flows from
> a lower concentration of a solution to a higher concentration through a
> semipermeable membrane. In meat, this membrane is the plasma membrane that
> surrounds the individual cells. When meat is placed in a brine, the meat's
> cell fluids are less concentrated than the salt water in the brining
> solution. Water flows out of the cells in the meat and salt flows in. The
> salt then dissolves some of the fiber proteins, and the meat's cell fluids
> become more concentrated, thus drawing water back in. Brining adds salt and
> water to the cells so that when the meat is cooked and water is squeezed
> out, there is still water left in the cells because water was added before
> cooking."

This is a misunderstanding of the mechanism at work in brining. Salt
doesn't dissolve protein. But, in any event, brining doesn't work well
with red meats to be braised. The liquids come out of the meat and end
up adding so much salt to the liquid that it becomes inedible.

A brine needs to be about a 5% saline solution or more to affect the
physical properties of the meat. That would be about 1/4 cup to a
quart of liquid, at a minimum. Way too much to add to a stew or
braising liquid.

Pastorio