Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh from
a refrigerated cabinet) is made?

The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe boiling
unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. I am curious if that
old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
compressed fresh yeast is made.

I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
informative ont he subject.

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh from
>a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
>
>The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
>19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe boiling
>unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. I am curious if that
>old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
>compressed fresh yeast is made.
>
>I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
>informative ont he subject.
>

That sort of yeast is commercially grown in vats, centrifuged, then
compressed.

You need yeast to make yeast...that is, you need to capture and
encourage its growth, or use a seed culture. Compressed yeast is S.
cerevisiae, so you would need to start with a pure strain of that.

It is easy to create a liquid yeast to use at home, but you'd have a
combo of S. cerevisiae or similar (depending on how you start your
culture) and lactobacillus, rather than a pure strain of S.
cerevisiae.

The centrifuging and compressing is mechanical and probably not easily
done unless you are a tinkerer with access to 2nd hand fancy lab
equipment you can tinker with in your basement or garage..and even
then...

Boron

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh from
>a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
>
>The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
>19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe boiling
>unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. I am curious if that
>old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
>compressed fresh yeast is made.
>
>I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
>informative ont he subject.
>

Here is the story
http://www.redstaryeast.com/science-...acturing-yeast
Janet US

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 09:48:10 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
>wrote:
>
>>Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh from
>>a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
>>
>>The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
>>19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe boiling
>>unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. I am curious if that
>>old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
>>compressed fresh yeast is made.
>>
>>I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
>>informative ont he subject.
>>
>
>Here is the story
>http://www.redstaryeast.com/science-...acturing-yeast
>Janet US


OOO, I was good! I talked about that without looking at the Red Star
page!

Boron

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 11:51:35 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 09:48:10 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh from
>>>a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
>>>
>>>The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
>>>19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe boiling
>>>unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. I am curious if that
>>>old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
>>>compressed fresh yeast is made.
>>>
>>>I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
>>>informative ont he subject.
>>>
>>
>>Here is the story
>>http://www.redstaryeast.com/science-...acturing-yeast
>>Janet US
>
>
>OOO, I was good! I talked about that without looking at the Red Star
>page!
>
>Boron

I expected no less from you :O) I just thought I would reinforce you.
Janet US

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 12:44:53 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>>
>> It is easy to create a liquid yeast to use at home, but you'd have a
>> combo of S. cerevisiae or similar (depending on how you start your
>> culture) and lactobacillus, rather than a pure strain of S.
>> cerevisiae.
>
>You need the lactobacillus if you're making sourdough,
>but not everybody wants sourdough.

No mention was made of sourdough at all, but if one is culturing at
home under general kitchen conditions, the lactos are going to have to
be there if the starter is going to be stable.

And as I have mentioned before and will reiterate once again...using a
starter does not necessarily result in a bread that tastes "sour" or
has any flavoring similar to SF sourdoughs.

I made two loaves this morning and there is nothing faintly
reminiscent of a classic sourdough loaf.

Last night I refreshed two starters, putting the discard into a bowl
with flour, water, salt, a splash of olive oil and chopped fresh
rosemary, oregano, thyme and marjoram. I mixed the combination until I
had a very, very sticky dough. I left it on the counter for one hour,
during which I stretched and folded it twice. Then I popped it into
the fridge overnight.

This morning I shaped it and proofed it. Just before putting it into a
500 F oven on a stone, I brushed each loaf with a bit of olive oil
that had a mix of dry herbs steeping. I slashed the loaves, sprinkled
them with nigella seeds, the baked them off..nothing sour about them
at all.

This is what they looked like before they were eaten.

http://i50.tinypic.com/n6fjgi.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/11jn05f.jpg

I know how to make a sourdough loaf with my starters, though. Had I
wanted that sort of flavor, I would have used a very fresh and active
starter, and only a small amount of it in proportion to what I wanted
for a final dough. Then I would have used a preferment with that
starter and at least two slow proofs for the dough.

This ain't rocket science.

Boron

Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> It is easy to create a liquid yeast to use at home, but you'd have a
> combo of S. cerevisiae or similar (depending on how you start your
> culture) and lactobacillus, rather than a pure strain of S.
> cerevisiae.

You need the lactobacillus if you're making sourdough,
but not everybody wants sourdough.

On Jul 15, 6:46*am, Boron Elgar > wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh from
> >a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
>
> >The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
> >19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe boiling
> >unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. *I am curious if that
> >old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
> >compressed fresh yeast is made.
>
> >I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
> >informative ont he subject.
>
> That sort of yeast is commercially grown in vats, centrifuged, then
> compressed.
>
> You need yeast to make yeast...that is, you need to capture and
> encourage its growth, or use a seed culture. Compressed yeast is S.
> cerevisiae, so you would need to start with a pure strain of that.
>
> It is easy to create a liquid yeast to use at home, but you'd have a
> combo of *S. cerevisiae or similar (depending on how you start your
> culture) and lactobacillus, rather than a pure strain of S.
> cerevisiae.
>
> The centrifuging and compressing is mechanical and probably not easily
> done unless you are a tinkerer with access to 2nd hand fancy lab
> equipment you can tinker with in your basement or garage..and even
> then...
>

The only compressed yeast I've ever seen is Fleischmann's.

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 17:02:22 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote:

>On Jul 15, 6:46*am, Boron Elgar > wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh from
>> >a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
>>
>> >The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
>> >19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe boiling
>> >unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. *I am curious if that
>> >old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
>> >compressed fresh yeast is made.
>>
>> >I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
>> >informative ont he subject.
>>
>> That sort of yeast is commercially grown in vats, centrifuged, then
>> compressed.
>>
>> You need yeast to make yeast...that is, you need to capture and
>> encourage its growth, or use a seed culture. Compressed yeast is S.
>> cerevisiae, so you would need to start with a pure strain of that.
>>
>> It is easy to create a liquid yeast to use at home, but you'd have a
>> combo of *S. cerevisiae or similar (depending on how you start your
>> culture) and lactobacillus, rather than a pure strain of S.
>> cerevisiae.
>>
>> The centrifuging and compressing is mechanical and probably not easily
>> done unless you are a tinkerer with access to 2nd hand fancy lab
>> equipment you can tinker with in your basement or garage..and even
>> then...
>>
>
>The only compressed yeast I've ever seen is Fleischmann's.

All the major brands offer cake yeast, I usually buy Red Star.

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>>Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh
>>from
>>a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
>>
>>The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
>>19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe
>>boiling
>>unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. I am curious if
>>that
>>old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
>>compressed fresh yeast is made.
>>
>>I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
>>informative ont he subject.
>>
>
> That sort of yeast is commercially grown in vats, centrifuged, then
> compressed.
>
> You need yeast to make yeast...that is, you need to capture and
> encourage its growth, or use a seed culture. Compressed yeast is S.
> cerevisiae, so you would need to start with a pure strain of that.

Thanks for your response which is very interesting.

I'm not planning on trying to grow any yeast at home, (at least nothing
other than the sourdough culture which I'm thinking of abandoning ayway
because I've decided that I much prefer normal bread).

I'm more interested in how yeast is/was made commericially ie, how is it fed
so it can grow? But your response has given me enough info to get a few of
my previously sleepy brain cells firing and I've been off doing some
googling. It's one of those situations where new input was desperately
needed - so thank you once again for your response.

> It is easy to create a liquid yeast to use at home, but you'd have a
> combo of S. cerevisiae or similar (depending on how you start your
> culture) and lactobacillus, rather than a pure strain of S.
> cerevisiae.

Is that what happens with sourdough?
>
> The centrifuging and compressing is mechanical and probably not easily
> done unless you are a tinkerer with access to 2nd hand fancy lab
> equipment you can tinker with in your basement or garage..and even
> then...

:-)) No doubt why all the home based bread 'yeasts' such as the potato/hops
one I origianally mentioned and the sourdough starters are all sloppy.

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>>Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh
>>from
>>a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
(snip)

> Here is the story
> http://www.redstaryeast.com/science-...acturing-yeast

Thank you Janet. That is just the sort of info I had tried to find and
couldn't - it'd probably be at about page 10 of a google search using my
country's google. I should just have gone to US google and done a search
there.

Your cite made the penny drop for me as to why sugar would work when testing
or starting yeast working before baking. I should have realised that
already.

ATM,I'm using cake yeast to make some Spelt bread and it's doing it's first
rise now. I haven't used real yeast for years (I'd forgotten how much I
loved the samell) and I've never used Spelt before so this is a bit of an
experiment.

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 12:44:53 -0800, Mark Thorson >
> wrote:
>
>>Boron Elgar wrote:
>>>
>>> It is easy to create a liquid yeast to use at home, but you'd have a
>>> combo of S. cerevisiae or similar (depending on how you start your
>>> culture) and lactobacillus, rather than a pure strain of S.
>>> cerevisiae.
>>
>>You need the lactobacillus if you're making sourdough,
>>but not everybody wants sourdough.
>
> No mention was made of sourdough at all, but if one is culturing at
> home under general kitchen conditions, the lactos are going to have to
> be there if the starter is going to be stable.


>
> And as I have mentioned before and will reiterate once again...using a
> starter does not necessarily result in a bread that tastes "sour" or
> has any flavoring similar to SF sourdoughs.
>
> I made two loaves this morning and there is nothing faintly
> reminiscent of a classic sourdough loaf.
>
> Last night I refreshed two starters, putting the discard into a bowl
> with flour, water, salt, a splash of olive oil and chopped fresh
> rosemary, oregano, thyme and marjoram. I mixed the combination until I
> had a very, very sticky dough. I left it on the counter for one hour,
> during which I stretched and folded it twice. Then I popped it into
> the fridge overnight.
>
> This morning I shaped it and proofed it. Just before putting it into a
> 500 F oven on a stone, I brushed each loaf with a bit of olive oil
> that had a mix of dry herbs steeping. I slashed the loaves,

What did you use to slash them with please? My SO makes our sourdough
loaves and he seems to have troubles with his slashing technique complaining
that the very sharp knife he uses is dragging the dough rather than
slashing. I have seen online that some people use double sided razor blades
but since I make 'normal' bread using tins, I dont' need to slash so ahve no
idea what would work.

sprinkled
> them with nigella seeds, the baked them off..nothing sour about them
> at all.
>
> This is what they looked like before they were eaten.
>
> http://i50.tinypic.com/n6fjgi.jpg

Great looking bread. I can almost smell it.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> Boron Elgar wrote:
>>
>> It is easy to create a liquid yeast to use at home, but you'd have a
>> combo of S. cerevisiae or similar (depending on how you start your
>> culture) and lactobacillus, rather than a pure strain of S.
>> cerevisiae.
>
> You need the lactobacillus if you're making sourdough,
> but not everybody wants sourdough.

I have to say that I prefer 'normal' bread. I do eat sourdough and iwth
some things it's the only one I'd choose to eat it with, but if the 2 loaves
are sitting in front of me, I know I'd more often reach to slice the
'normal'.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:58:20 +1000, "Farm1" >
wrote:

> What did you use to slash them with please? My SO makes our sourdough
> loaves and he seems to have troubles with his slashing technique complaining
> that the very sharp knife he uses is dragging the dough rather than
> slashing. I have seen online that some people use double sided razor blades
> but since I make 'normal' bread using tins, I dont' need to slash so ahve no
> idea what would work.

I was under the impression that people use razor blades. I would use
the single edge type though. Too chicken to try it with a double
edged blade.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:58:20 +1000, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message

>> This morning I shaped it and proofed it. Just before putting it into a
>> 500 F oven on a stone, I brushed each loaf with a bit of olive oil
>> that had a mix of dry herbs steeping. I slashed the loaves,
>
>What did you use to slash them with please? My SO makes our sourdough
>loaves and he seems to have troubles with his slashing technique complaining
>that the very sharp knife he uses is dragging the dough rather than
>slashing. I have seen online that some people use double sided razor blades
>but since I make 'normal' bread using tins, I dont' need to slash so ahve no
>idea what would work.

There are who online treatises talking about slashing tools and
techniques with many preferences given. The recommendation about the
razor blade is a good one, actually, but a type that I, myself do not
prefer. Some razor variations come with handles:

I have been fortunate in having been given quite a few slashing
devices from a baking /bread mix company. The company gives them away
to customers (my husband did a lot of construction work for them).
Even these little incentives vary quite a bit in shape, from what one
might call a miniature straight razor to a small, thin-bladed serrated
knife.

There is an excellent tutorial he

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/101...updated-122009

And another decent write-up he

http://cooking-ez.com/page.php?id=28

Different types of bread require different types of slashing. The goal
in some artisan loaves is to cut in such a way that one achieves a
"grigne," or smile in the bread - a wide open curve in the crust.

Some bakeries or bakers create their own particular and unique
slashing design - Lionel Poilne and Chad Robertson come to mind - and
I find Robertson's easy to duplicate and quite practical to use.

There are some loaf tin breads that do require slashing - many do not
- but if you've ever seen a loaf burst open in baking, you'd know how
some doughs can be better off it a slash.

It takes practice and if one's dough is at the edge of being
over-proofed, a less than 100% perfect slash can throw it right over
that edge. I have always found the perfect scoring of bread to be one
of its hardest aspects. Others find it a breeze.


>
>sprinkled
>> them with nigella seeds, the baked them off..nothing sour about them
>> at all.
>>
>> This is what they looked like before they were eaten.
>>
>> http://i50.tinypic.com/n6fjgi.jpg
>
>Great looking bread. I can almost smell it.
>
Thank you. With so many herbs, it is a perfect bread for summer - it
goes swell with cold soups, salads or a summery dinner of fruits and
cheese.

Boron

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:06:06 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 11:51:35 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 09:48:10 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh from
>>>>a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
>>>>
>>>>The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
>>>>19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe boiling
>>>>unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. I am curious if that
>>>>old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
>>>>compressed fresh yeast is made.
>>>>
>>>>I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
>>>>informative ont he subject.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Here is the story
>>>http://www.redstaryeast.com/science-...acturing-yeast
>>>Janet US
>>
>>
>>OOO, I was good! I talked about that without looking at the Red Star
>>page!
>>
>>Boron
>
>I expected no less from you :O) I just thought I would reinforce you.
>Janet US

Oh, not only reinforcing, but providing a citation is a much more
logical thing to do. You did it the right way.

Can you do any no-knead breads while your arm is healing?

Boron

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 17:02:22 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote:

>On Jul 15, 6:46*am, Boron Elgar > wrote:

>>
>> The centrifuging and compressing is mechanical and probably not easily
>> done unless you are a tinkerer with access to 2nd hand fancy lab
>> equipment you can tinker with in your basement or garage..and even
>> then...
>>
>
>The only compressed yeast I've ever seen is Fleischmann's.

Smaller neighborhood bakeries sometimes use fresh yeast. They get it
in to -5 lb blocks. I have a couple of them nearby that I hit up once
in a while.

When my husband used to do work for a baking products provider, their
lab was on premises and they got a large batch of fresh yeast
delivered each week. To maintain consistency, they's toss the leftover
yeast when the new batch came in. One week old fresh yeast, kept under
lab condition, was great by me, so I used to be an recipient of their
largesse once in awhile.

I love working with fresh yeast. If I had my druthers, I'd use that
and sourdough starters only for all my breads.

Boron

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:16:31 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:06:06 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 11:51:35 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 09:48:10 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:44:21 +1000, "Farm1" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Does anyone know how compressed yeast (in a cake form and bought fresh from
>>>>>a refrigerated cabinet) is made?
>>>>>
>>>>>The reason why I am asking is that a lot of the old books dating from the
>>>>>19th C and the early 20th C which I own, give recipes that describe boiling
>>>>>unpeeled potatoes with hops as a way of making yeast. I am curious if that
>>>>>old method of making yeast is/was in any way similar to how modern
>>>>>compressed fresh yeast is made.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've tried doing a google search but failed miserably to turn up anything
>>>>>informative ont he subject.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here is the story
>>>>http://www.redstaryeast.com/science-...acturing-yeast
>>>>Janet US
>>>
>>>
>>>OOO, I was good! I talked about that without looking at the Red Star
>>>page!
>>>
>>>Boron
>>
>>I expected no less from you :O) I just thought I would reinforce you.
>>Janet US
>
>Oh, not only reinforcing, but providing a citation is a much more
>logical thing to do. You did it the right way.
>
>Can you do any no-knead breads while your arm is healing?
>
>Boron
No. I can't do any lifting of any kind. Besides that, this type of
sling has me velcro-ed to a 4-inch thick foam bolster that is strapped
to my waist. It allows very little movement. We are currently eating
BB&C food -- Bottle, Box and Can. Fortunately I have passed the
4-week time period where I was allowed only to sleep sitting up in a
chair like a recliner. Now I must sleep sitting or slight reclining
-- takes about 8-10 pillows to do it right.
Janet US

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:56:17 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:16:31 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>

>>Can you do any no-knead breads while your arm is healing?
>>
>>Boron
>No. I can't do any lifting of any kind. Besides that, this type of
>sling has me velcro-ed to a 4-inch thick foam bolster that is strapped
>to my waist. It allows very little movement. We are currently eating
>BB&C food -- Bottle, Box and Can. Fortunately I have passed the
>4-week time period where I was allowed only to sleep sitting up in a
>chair like a recliner. Now I must sleep sitting or slight reclining
>-- takes about 8-10 pillows to do it right.
>Janet US

Holy Moly - that is quite a repair job. How long before they will be
able to start you on physical therapy?

Boron

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 11:22:22 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:56:17 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:16:31 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>>
>
>>>Can you do any no-knead breads while your arm is healing?
>>>
>>>Boron
>>No. I can't do any lifting of any kind. Besides that, this type of
>>sling has me velcro-ed to a 4-inch thick foam bolster that is strapped
>>to my waist. It allows very little movement. We are currently eating
>>BB&C food -- Bottle, Box and Can. Fortunately I have passed the
>>4-week time period where I was allowed only to sleep sitting up in a
>>chair like a recliner. Now I must sleep sitting or slight reclining
>>-- takes about 8-10 pillows to do it right.
>>Janet US
>
>Holy Moly - that is quite a repair job. How long before they will be
>able to start you on physical therapy?
>
>Boron

this is the second time around. The first repair failed when an
additional tear appeared next to the repair. Basically I have been
sitting, doing nothing since the first of December. I started therapy
a couple weeks ago. They are taking it very slow this time. Right
now I am sitting at the table with arms outstretched and backing up
the chair, attempting to get my trunk and arms straight. Also using a
pulley for the same thing. Both are passive and both hurt.. It will
be mid to late August before I know if this repair worked. Doc said
the tissue they worked with this time was in worse shape than first
time. I am hoping to be able to raise my arm.
Janet US

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:03:02 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 11:22:22 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:56:17 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:16:31 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>Can you do any no-knead breads while your arm is healing?
>>>>
>>>>Boron
>>>No. I can't do any lifting of any kind. Besides that, this type of
>>>sling has me velcro-ed to a 4-inch thick foam bolster that is strapped
>>>to my waist. It allows very little movement. We are currently eating
>>>BB&C food -- Bottle, Box and Can. Fortunately I have passed the
>>>4-week time period where I was allowed only to sleep sitting up in a
>>>chair like a recliner. Now I must sleep sitting or slight reclining
>>>-- takes about 8-10 pillows to do it right.
>>>Janet US
>>
>>Holy Moly - that is quite a repair job. How long before they will be
>>able to start you on physical therapy?
>>
>>Boron
>
>this is the second time around. The first repair failed when an
>additional tear appeared next to the repair. Basically I have been
>sitting, doing nothing since the first of December. I started therapy
>a couple weeks ago. They are taking it very slow this time. Right
>now I am sitting at the table with arms outstretched and backing up
>the chair, attempting to get my trunk and arms straight. Also using a
>pulley for the same thing. Both are passive and both hurt.. It will
>be mid to late August before I know if this repair worked. Doc said
>the tissue they worked with this time was in worse shape than first
>time. I am hoping to be able to raise my arm.
>Janet US

I can imagine how aggravating this must be. The wife of a co-worker
had a shoulder joint replacement done twice - both times with such
severe complications that each was removed. They now say she just has
to do without that joint - there isn't enough of her left to attach a
new one.

Boron

Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
>this is the second time around. The first repair failed when an
>additional tear appeared next to the repair. Basically I have been
>sitting, doing nothing since the first of December. I started therapy
>a couple weeks ago. They are taking it very slow this time. Right
>now I am sitting at the table with arms outstretched and backing up
>the chair, attempting to get my trunk and arms straight. Also using a
>pulley for the same thing. Both are passive and both hurt.. It will
>be mid to late August before I know if this repair worked. Doc said
>the tissue they worked with this time was in worse shape than first
>time. I am hoping to be able to raise my arm.

What precipitated the damage to your arm, was it from a trauma (fall?)
or a disease (arthritis?)?

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:21:44 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

>Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>
>>this is the second time around. The first repair failed when an
>>additional tear appeared next to the repair. Basically I have been
>>sitting, doing nothing since the first of December. I started therapy
>>a couple weeks ago. They are taking it very slow this time. Right
>>now I am sitting at the table with arms outstretched and backing up
>>the chair, attempting to get my trunk and arms straight. Also using a
>>pulley for the same thing. Both are passive and both hurt.. It will
>>be mid to late August before I know if this repair worked. Doc said
>>the tissue they worked with this time was in worse shape than first
>>time. I am hoping to be able to raise my arm.
>
>What precipitated the damage to your arm, was it from a trauma (fall?)
>or a disease (arthritis?)?

I fell and landed directly on my right side and caused 'massive
rotator cuff injury.'
Janet US

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:56:17 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> No. I can't do any lifting of any kind. Besides that, this type of
> sling has me velcro-ed to a 4-inch thick foam bolster that is strapped
> to my waist. It allows very little movement. We are currently eating
> BB&C food -- Bottle, Box and Can. Fortunately I have passed the
> 4-week time period where I was allowed only to sleep sitting up in a
> chair like a recliner. Now I must sleep sitting or slight reclining
> -- takes about 8-10 pillows to do it right.
> Janet US

Lordamercy, that sounds awful!

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 09:37:09 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:56:17 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> No. I can't do any lifting of any kind. Besides that, this type of
>> sling has me velcro-ed to a 4-inch thick foam bolster that is strapped
>> to my waist. It allows very little movement. We are currently eating
>> BB&C food -- Bottle, Box and Can. Fortunately I have passed the
>> 4-week time period where I was allowed only to sleep sitting up in a
>> chair like a recliner. Now I must sleep sitting or slight reclining
>> -- takes about 8-10 pillows to do it right.
>> Janet US
>
>Lordamercy, that sounds awful!

The doctor recently referred to it as "The Torment." I thought it was
apt.
Janet US

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:35:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:21:44 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>
>>Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>
>>>this is the second time around. The first repair failed when an
>>>additional tear appeared next to the repair. Basically I have been
>>>sitting, doing nothing since the first of December. I started therapy
>>>a couple weeks ago. They are taking it very slow this time. Right
>>>now I am sitting at the table with arms outstretched and backing up
>>>the chair, attempting to get my trunk and arms straight. Also using a
>>>pulley for the same thing. Both are passive and both hurt.. It will
>>>be mid to late August before I know if this repair worked. Doc said
>>>the tissue they worked with this time was in worse shape than first
>>>time. I am hoping to be able to raise my arm.
>>
>>What precipitated the damage to your arm, was it from a trauma (fall?)
>>or a disease (arthritis?)?
>
>I fell and landed directly on my right side and caused 'massive
>rotator cuff injury.'
>Janet US

Not good, probably a lot of torn soft tissue. That can take a long
time to heal. On the plus side it wasn't the result of a chronic
condition so eventually it will heal. Meanwhile treat yourself
gently, and heal quickly... best wishes!

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:12:51 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:35:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:21:44 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>>
>>>Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>this is the second time around. The first repair failed when an
>>>>additional tear appeared next to the repair. Basically I have been
>>>>sitting, doing nothing since the first of December. I started therapy
>>>>a couple weeks ago. They are taking it very slow this time. Right
>>>>now I am sitting at the table with arms outstretched and backing up
>>>>the chair, attempting to get my trunk and arms straight. Also using a
>>>>pulley for the same thing. Both are passive and both hurt.. It will
>>>>be mid to late August before I know if this repair worked. Doc said
>>>>the tissue they worked with this time was in worse shape than first
>>>>time. I am hoping to be able to raise my arm.
>>>
>>>What precipitated the damage to your arm, was it from a trauma (fall?)
>>>or a disease (arthritis?)?
>>
>>I fell and landed directly on my right side and caused 'massive
>>rotator cuff injury.'
>>Janet US
>
>Not good, probably a lot of torn soft tissue. That can take a long
>time to heal. On the plus side it wasn't the result of a chronic
>condition so eventually it will heal. Meanwhile treat yourself
>gently, and heal quickly... best wishes!
thank you
Janet US

Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:12:51 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

> >Not good, probably a lot of torn soft tissue. That can take a long
> >time to heal. On the plus side it wasn't the result of a chronic
> >condition so eventually it will heal. Meanwhile treat yourself
> >gently, and heal quickly... best wishes!

> thank you
> Janet US

My best wishes to you too, Janet, for full and quick recovery.

Be thankful that you are not someone's pet. Many would have mercifully had
you put to sleep so you wouldn't have to suffer through this. ;-o

G.

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 11:22:22 -0400, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:56:17 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:16:31 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>Can you do any no-knead breads while your arm is healing?
>>>>
>>>>Boron
>>>No. I can't do any lifting of any kind. Besides that, this type of
>>>sling has me velcro-ed to a 4-inch thick foam bolster that is strapped
>>>to my waist. It allows very little movement. We are currently eating
>>>BB&C food -- Bottle, Box and Can. Fortunately I have passed the
>>>4-week time period where I was allowed only to sleep sitting up in a
>>>chair like a recliner. Now I must sleep sitting or slight reclining
>>>-- takes about 8-10 pillows to do it right.
>>>Janet US
>>
>>Holy Moly - that is quite a repair job. How long before they will be
>>able to start you on physical therapy?
>>
>>Boron
>
> this is the second time around. The first repair failed when an
> additional tear appeared next to the repair. Basically I have been
> sitting, doing nothing since the first of December. I started therapy
> a couple weeks ago. They are taking it very slow this time. Right
> now I am sitting at the table with arms outstretched and backing up
> the chair, attempting to get my trunk and arms straight. Also using a
> pulley for the same thing. Both are passive and both hurt.. It will
> be mid to late August before I know if this repair worked. Doc said
> the tissue they worked with this time was in worse shape than first
> time. I am hoping to be able to raise my arm.

Good grief! I am so sorry to hear that, Janet Good wishes and I hope you
have a full recovery.
--
--

http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:58:20 +1000, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>
>>> This morning I shaped it and proofed it. Just before putting it into a
>>> 500 F oven on a stone, I brushed each loaf with a bit of olive oil
>>> that had a mix of dry herbs steeping. I slashed the loaves,
>>
>>What did you use to slash them with please? My SO makes our sourdough
>>loaves and he seems to have troubles with his slashing technique
>>complaining
>>that the very sharp knife he uses is dragging the dough rather than
>>slashing. I have seen online that some people use double sided razor
>>blades
>>but since I make 'normal' bread using tins, I dont' need to slash so ahve
>>no
>>idea what would work.
>
> There are who online treatises talking about slashing tools and
> techniques with many preferences given. The recommendation about the
> razor blade is a good one, actually, but a type that I, myself do not
> prefer. Some razor variations come with handles:
>
> I have been fortunate in having been given quite a few slashing
> devices from a baking /bread mix company. The company gives them away
> to customers (my husband did a lot of construction work for them).
> Even these little incentives vary quite a bit in shape, from what one
> might call a miniature straight razor to a small, thin-bladed serrated
> knife.
>
> There is an excellent tutorial he
>
> http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/101...updated-122009
>
> And another decent write-up he
>
> http://cooking-ez.com/page.php?id=28

Thank you for those cites. I've bookmarked them and Himself can read them.
I wonder if a scalpel would be a good tool??? - we have them for denutting
the male calves so he should try using one of them sometime (although
obviosly not one used on a future steer :-))
>
> Different types of bread require different types of slashing. The goal
> in some artisan loaves is to cut in such a way that one achieves a
> "grigne," or smile in the bread - a wide open curve in the crust.
>
> Some bakeries or bakers create their own particular and unique
> slashing design - Lionel Poilne and Chad Robertson come to mind - and
> I find Robertson's easy to duplicate and quite practical to use.
>
> There are some loaf tin breads that do require slashing - many do not
> - but if you've ever seen a loaf burst open in baking, you'd know how
> some doughs can be better off it a slash.
>
> It takes practice and if one's dough is at the edge of being
> over-proofed, a less than 100% perfect slash can throw it right over
> that edge. I have always found the perfect scoring of bread to be one
> of its hardest aspects. Others find it a breeze.
>
>
>>
>>sprinkled
>>> them with nigella seeds, the baked them off..nothing sour about them
>>> at all.
>>>
>>> This is what they looked like before they were eaten.
>>>
>>> http://i50.tinypic.com/n6fjgi.jpg
>>
>>Great looking bread. I can almost smell it.
>>
> Thank you. With so many herbs, it is a perfect bread for summer - it
> goes swell with cold soups, salads or a summery dinner of fruits and
> cheese.

Indeedy. Bread is just right to go with some food. We've just had some of
my spelt bread which I made yesterday with a soup I made with lots of pearl
barley in it - good winter fare here in the southern hemisphere.

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message

> I love working with fresh yeast. If I had my druthers, I'd use that
> and sourdough starters only for all my breads.

I can't say that I see a lot of difference in outcome between fresh cake
yeast and dry yeast. But, like you, I too like fresh cake yeast although
I've often wondered if it's a personal attitudinal thing ie, it's 'fresh' so
it's alive as opposed to inert.

I used fresh yeast in 2 loaves I made yesterday - the Spelt one I've
mentioned a couple of times (although it wasn't opure Spelt - I made it half
Spelt, a quarter white and a quarter wholemeal) and my 'normal' old domestic
one that I've been making since Adam was a boy - half wholemeal, half white
flour.

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message

> I fell and landed directly on my right side and caused 'massive
> rotator cuff injury.'

Shudder. You have my sympathies - I hope you recover fully given time.

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:33:32 +1000, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message

>>
>> There is an excellent tutorial he
>>
>> http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/101...updated-122009
>>
>> And another decent write-up he
>>
>> http://cooking-ez.com/page.php?id=28
>
>Thank you for those cites. I've bookmarked them and Himself can read them.
>I wonder if a scalpel would be a good tool??? - we have them for denutting
>the male calves so he should try using one of them sometime (although
>obviosly not one used on a future steer :-))

Yes, a scalpel might work quite well. You'll have a decent handle and
a thin blade. Great idea.


>>>> This is what they looked like before they were eaten.
>>>>
>>>> http://i50.tinypic.com/n6fjgi.jpg
>>>
>>>Great looking bread. I can almost smell it.
>>>
>> Thank you. With so many herbs, it is a perfect bread for summer - it
>> goes swell with cold soups, salads or a summery dinner of fruits and
>> cheese.
>
>Indeedy. Bread is just right to go with some food. We've just had some of
>my spelt bread which I made yesterday with a soup I made with lots of pearl
>barley in it - good winter fare here in the southern hemisphere.
>


I love all seasons, truly, I do, but we're liable to hit 36C or 37C
today, and I could use just a tad of winter chill.

Boron

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:39:08 +1000, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>
>> I love working with fresh yeast. If I had my druthers, I'd use that
>> and sourdough starters only for all my breads.
>
>I can't say that I see a lot of difference in outcome between fresh cake
>yeast and dry yeast. But, like you, I too like fresh cake yeast although
>I've often wondered if it's a personal attitudinal thing ie, it's 'fresh' so
>it's alive as opposed to inert.

Yes, that "fresh" idea appeals to me, I admit, but you really get
quite a poof from it when working with enriched doughs - egg breads,
croissants, sticky buns. Most of my baking is lean breads - flour
water, salt leavening, so the rise is easier to achieve, and for those
a starter is fine.

>I used fresh yeast in 2 loaves I made yesterday - the Spelt one I've
>mentioned a couple of times (although it wasn't opure Spelt - I made it half
>Spelt, a quarter white and a quarter wholemeal) and my 'normal' old domestic
>one that I've been making since Adam was a boy - half wholemeal, half white
>flour.
>
Most of my freezer is filled with flours - from the plain to the
specialty. I like to put out 3 or 4 on the table as I mix up batches
of dough and just play around with ratios.

Boron

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:57:38 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:
snip
>>>
>>>Holy Moly - that is quite a repair job. How long before they will be
>>>able to start you on physical therapy?
>>>
>>>Boron
>>
>> this is the second time around. The first repair failed when an
>> additional tear appeared next to the repair. Basically I have been
>> sitting, doing nothing since the first of December. I started therapy
>> a couple weeks ago. They are taking it very slow this time. Right
>> now I am sitting at the table with arms outstretched and backing up
>> the chair, attempting to get my trunk and arms straight. Also using a
>> pulley for the same thing. Both are passive and both hurt.. It will
>> be mid to late August before I know if this repair worked. Doc said
>> the tissue they worked with this time was in worse shape than first
>> time. I am hoping to be able to raise my arm.
>
>Good grief! I am so sorry to hear that, Janet Good wishes and I hope you
>have a full recovery.
>--
Thanks, O.
Janet US

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:39:08 +1000, "Farm1"

>>I can't say that I see a lot of difference in outcome between fresh cake
>>yeast and dry yeast. But, like you, I too like fresh cake yeast although
>>I've often wondered if it's a personal attitudinal thing ie, it's 'fresh'
>>so
>>it's alive as opposed to inert.
>
> Yes, that "fresh" idea appeals to me, I admit, but you really get
> quite a poof from it when working with enriched doughs - egg breads,
> croissants, sticky buns. Most of my baking is lean breads - flour
> water, salt leavening, so the rise is easier to achieve, and for those
> a starter is fine.

??? Starter? Do you mean sourdough starter? 'Cos if you do, I meant that
I see little (or to be honest, no) difference between dry or fresh yeast. I
certainly can see a major difference between my husband's starter and either
the dry or fresh yeast I choose to use.
>
>>I used fresh yeast in 2 loaves I made yesterday - the Spelt one I've
>>mentioned a couple of times (although it wasn't opure Spelt - I made it
>>half
>>Spelt, a quarter white and a quarter wholemeal) and my 'normal' old
>>domestic
>>one that I've been making since Adam was a boy - half wholemeal, half
>>white
>>flour.
>>
> Most of my freezer is filled with flours - from the plain to the
> specialty. I like to put out 3 or 4 on the table as I mix up batches
> of dough and just play around with ratios.

So what varieties do you keep?

We usually stick to only 2 varieties (wholemeal and white) and even then we
use them up very quickly - nothing worse than old flour. The Spelt was a
whim and I bought a small 2 kg pack that I saw in the health food shop and
thought I'd try. I don't think I'll bother again as it's nothing special
and I can't understand why there is so much brouhaha about Spelt products.
It's interesting from an historical perspective but I don't like the super
fine quality it has (reminds me of Plaster of Paris) and the taste is not
anything special.

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:34:31 +1000, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:39:08 +1000, "Farm1"
>
>>>I can't say that I see a lot of difference in outcome between fresh cake
>>>yeast and dry yeast. But, like you, I too like fresh cake yeast although
>>>I've often wondered if it's a personal attitudinal thing ie, it's 'fresh'
>>>so
>>>it's alive as opposed to inert.
>>
>> Yes, that "fresh" idea appeals to me, I admit, but you really get
>> quite a poof from it when working with enriched doughs - egg breads,
>> croissants, sticky buns. Most of my baking is lean breads - flour
>> water, salt leavening, so the rise is easier to achieve, and for those
>> a starter is fine.
>
>??? Starter? Do you mean sourdough starter? 'Cos if you do, I meant that
>I see little (or to be honest, no) difference between dry or fresh yeast. I
>certainly can see a major difference between my husband's starter and either
>the dry or fresh yeast I choose to use.

Commercial yeast (mostly, but not always) for heavily enriched breads.
Guarantees a smooth rise with no surprises. Still, I have been known
to use (sourdough) starter to make challah and pecan buns.
>>
>>>I used fresh yeast in 2 loaves I made yesterday - the Spelt one I've
>>>mentioned a couple of times (although it wasn't opure Spelt - I made it
>>>half
>>>Spelt, a quarter white and a quarter wholemeal) and my 'normal' old
>>>domestic
>>>one that I've been making since Adam was a boy - half wholemeal, half
>>>white
>>>flour.
>>>
>> Most of my freezer is filled with flours - from the plain to the
>> specialty. I like to put out 3 or 4 on the table as I mix up batches
>> of dough and just play around with ratios.
>
>So what varieties do you keep?
>
>We usually stick to only 2 varieties (wholemeal and white) and even then we
>use them up very quickly - nothing worse than old flour. The Spelt was a
>whim and I bought a small 2 kg pack that I saw in the health food shop and
>thought I'd try. I don't think I'll bother again as it's nothing special
>and I can't understand why there is so much brouhaha about Spelt products.
>It's interesting from an historical perspective but I don't like the super
>fine quality it has (reminds me of Plaster of Paris) and the taste is not
>anything special.
>

All purpose (a few brands)
Artisan (King Arthur - like French or Italian flours)
Real French
Real Italian
Whole wheat, both regular and white
Spelt
High gluten
Semolina/Durum (some of these can be too finely milled, too, as you
mention for spelt)
Irish wholemeal
Clear
Self Rising
Pastry
Cake
3 kinds of rye - light med & pumpernickel
Barley

I am sure I have forgotten a few (probably REALLY forgotten and they
are at the back and bottom of the freezer)

And there are a lot of grains, too - oat, mixed, rye groats/chops,
rough corn and nuts/seeds....

I will only use spelt as an add-in...in fact, most of the specialty
flours are add-ins to basic dough to add texture and flavor to the
breads. Varying the combos and ratios makes for very different doughs,
handling, proofing, baking, as well as result in changes in both
taste and texture.

Welcome to my hobby.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:34:31 +1000, "Farm1" >
> wrote:

> All purpose (a few brands)
> Artisan (King Arthur - like French or Italian flours)
> Real French
> Real Italian
> Whole wheat, both regular and white
> Spelt
> High gluten
> Semolina/Durum (some of these can be too finely milled, too, as you
> mention for spelt)
> Irish wholemeal
> Clear
> Self Rising
> Pastry
> Cake
> 3 kinds of rye - light med & pumpernickel
> Barley

I must admit that some of those mean nothing to me. For eg, what is Irish
wholemeal? And how is that any different to what you'd call 'regulalr whole
wheat' and I'd probably call 'wholemeal'?

> Welcome to my hobby.

LOL. Thank you. But since I'm ancient, have been making bread for at least
40 years and notice from another of your posts that retirement is still in
your future, it might be a bit too late for such a welcome.

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:00:52 +1000, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:34:31 +1000, "Farm1" >
>> wrote:
>
>> All purpose (a few brands)
>> Artisan (King Arthur - like French or Italian flours)
>> Real French
>> Real Italian
>> Whole wheat, both regular and white
>> Spelt
>> High gluten
>> Semolina/Durum (some of these can be too finely milled, too, as you
>> mention for spelt)
>> Irish wholemeal
>> Clear
>> Self Rising
>> Pastry
>> Cake
>> 3 kinds of rye - light med & pumpernickel
>> Barley
>
>I must admit that some of those mean nothing to me. For eg, what is Irish
>wholemeal? And how is that any different to what you'd call 'regulalr whole
>wheat' and I'd probably call 'wholemeal'?

It is an experiment I got from here (I waited until they had a sale
and I had a gift card)

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/...eal-flour-3-lb
>
>> Welcome to my hobby.
>
>LOL. Thank you. But since I'm ancient, have been making bread for at least
>40 years and notice from another of your posts that retirement is still in
>your future, it might be a bit too late for such a welcome.

Ancient is good. I've only been at the bread for 30 years with a
vengeance, the last 10 of them fanatically. The first 20 years were a
waste.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:00:52 +1000, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:34:31 +1000, "Farm1" >
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> All purpose (a few brands)
>>> Artisan (King Arthur - like French or Italian flours)
>>> Real French
>>> Real Italian
>>> Whole wheat, both regular and white
>>> Spelt
>>> High gluten
>>> Semolina/Durum (some of these can be too finely milled, too, as you
>>> mention for spelt)
>>> Irish wholemeal
>>> Clear
>>> Self Rising
>>> Pastry
>>> Cake
>>> 3 kinds of rye - light med & pumpernickel
>>> Barley
>>
>>I must admit that some of those mean nothing to me. For eg, what is Irish
>>wholemeal? And how is that any different to what you'd call 'regulalr
>>whole
>>wheat' and I'd probably call 'wholemeal'?
>
> It is an experiment I got from here (I waited until they had a sale
> and I had a gift card)
>
> http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/...eal-flour-3-lb

Ah! Thanks for the link.

I notice they say it's a 'soft' flour but if they hadn't mentioned that I
wouldn't be able to see any difference between it and my normal old
wholemeal just from the look of it.

Personally, I'd only ever bother to use hard wheat flour for bread and
reserve all soft wheat flours for cakes. Other than my husband's reasonably
new interest in sourdough, we have reached the age and stage where we know
what we like and don't experiment all that often - too many other things to
do.