"George" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/3/2012 10:52 AM, sf wrote:

>> If they are worth even a tenth of what they're paid to protect
>> workers, it's money well spent.
>>
>
> Tell that to say the former employees of say the large local manufacturer
> that used to be nearby. The place was famous for uncooperative employees
> carrying everything to an extreme "its not my job" working behind the
> shield of the union. There is such a thing as knowing when enough is
> enough and not to make a pig of yourself buy union thugs don't know that
> concept.


I don't understand why unions with such people don't purge them, or at least
sanction them. But look at other institutions like the Catholic Church and
Boy Scouts and all the things they've kept secret... Rare to hear of a
union member get fired. But they go too far and can. The one steward where
I worked did. He apparently was screwing a dismas worker (work release
program) and took pictures and left them in his office in the basement. He
wasn't a very bright guy.

"Brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

Gary wrote:
>jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> Crushed tomatoes don't work for me. Seeds. Can't have the seeds.
>
>Are you allergic to them? I never even notice or care about the seeds.

Diverticulosis. There are tinned crushed tomatoes that have the seeds
removed, most contain no seeds. Or one can use tinned pureed
tomatoes. The seeds don't bother me, my favorite is the tinned whole
peeled tomatoes in puree. During the fall months is when tinned
tomatoes are on sale, they're typically about half price so I stock
up.


It's Diverticulitis. Diverticulosis is a precursor to Diverticulitis and I
was warned to stay away from nuts and indigestible seeds. I blame popcorn.
My mother insisted I share a bowl of popcorn with her every night. I wound
up in the hospital for a week around July, 2008. I was supposed to be
taking care of my mother. I was also supposed to be cat sitting for our
neighbor. I called the neighbor from the hospital and she arranged for
someone else to take care of her cats.

Meanwhile, my 82 year old mom was trying to take care of Persia. Food and
water, no problem. But scooping a litter box wasn't something she'd ever
had to do before. Meanwhile, I'm in the hospital with a drain inserted in
my back. It was a very severe infection. I was on IV antibiotics (and some
really good pain meds, too!) Meanwhile, I was calling Mom three times a to
make sure SHE had eaten.

I wouldn't look forward to that painful experience again. And it was *very*
painful! They gave me a shot of morphine in the ER and that wasn't enough.
I was in so much pain I was crying. I heard them say outside the exam room
door, "But we just gave her a shot 20 minutes ago." "I don't care, give her
another one!" The second one did the trick. Then they took me for some
test to make sure it wasn't my appendix. Nope, and I was admitted
immediately. It was a raging infection and they were worried about possible
peritonitis.

Needless to say, I avoid anything that contains hard seeds. That includes
fresh tomatoes. I do buy tomato puree and canned tomato sauce. I don't
snack on sunflower seeds or pumpkin seeds like I used to.

The thing that gets me is the gastroenterologist tried to convince me, in
follow up visits to his office, if I didn't have major surgery I'd wind up
with an ostomy bag (for the rest of my life) within three years. Yet when I
told him I don't have health insurance, he was suddenly all about giving me
pamphlets on what foods to avoid. Yeah, dude, you don't get to bilk an
insurance company for unnecessary surgery. Five years later, I'm fine. I
just watch what I eat.

Jill

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 11:21:01 -0400, George >
wrote:

> On 11/2/2012 10:26 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:37:23 -0400, "Richard K." >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Before unions, things were pretty awful for a lot of workers.
> >
> > Their work situation was abysmal: 12 hour days and 6 day work weeks.
> >
>
> And now 7 hour days and 15 weeks paid vacation for union teachers in my
> state. Problem is the extremes.

Said like someone who doesn't have a clue about the realities of
teaching.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 11:26:02 -0400, George >
wrote:

> On 11/3/2012 10:52 AM, sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 23:41:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:37:23 -0400, "Richard K." >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Your stories point out some very stupid things. But there are also a lot of
> >>> anecdotes that could be told of what working conditions in the US were like
> >>> before unions... child labor, sweat shops, no workers comp, low wages,
> >>> getting fired without cause, workers beaten and killed for trying to
> >>> unionize and protect their rights, etc. Before unions, things were pretty
> >>> awful for a lot of workers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Very true, but the good the unions did back then does not justify what
> >> some unions do now to exploit the workers for their dues. Look up the
> >> wages of the union bosses too. Higher than the wage earner they
> >> supposedly represent.
> >
> > If they are worth even a tenth of what they're paid to protect
> > workers, it's money well spent.
> >
>
> Tell that to say the former employees of say the large local
> manufacturer that used to be nearby. The place was famous for
> uncooperative employees carrying everything to an extreme "its not my
> job" working behind the shield of the union. There is such a thing as
> knowing when enough is enough and not to make a pig of yourself buy
> union thugs don't know that concept.

So, you'd like to drive a car wired by someone who is a well trained
roofer? Good for you.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> "Brooklyn1" wrote in message
> ...
>
> Gary wrote:
>>jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>> Crushed tomatoes don't work for me. Seeds. Can't have the seeds.
>>
>>Are you allergic to them? I never even notice or care about the seeds.
>
> Diverticulosis. There are tinned crushed tomatoes that have the seeds
> removed, most contain no seeds. Or one can use tinned pureed
> tomatoes. The seeds don't bother me, my favorite is the tinned whole
> peeled tomatoes in puree. During the fall months is when tinned
> tomatoes are on sale, they're typically about half price so I stock
> up.
>
>
> It's Diverticulitis. Diverticulosis is a precursor to Diverticulitis and
> I was warned to stay away from nuts and indigestible seeds. I blame
> popcorn. My mother insisted I share a bowl of popcorn with her every
> night. I wound up in the hospital for a week around July, 2008. I was
> supposed to be taking care of my mother. I was also supposed to be cat
> sitting for our neighbor. I called the neighbor from the hospital and she
> arranged for someone else to take care of her cats.
>
> Meanwhile, my 82 year old mom was trying to take care of Persia. Food and
> water, no problem. But scooping a litter box wasn't something she'd ever
> had to do before. Meanwhile, I'm in the hospital with a drain inserted in
> my back. It was a very severe infection. I was on IV antibiotics (and
> some really good pain meds, too!) Meanwhile, I was calling Mom three
> times a to make sure SHE had eaten.
>
> I wouldn't look forward to that painful experience again. And it was
> *very* painful! They gave me a shot of morphine in the ER and that wasn't
> enough. I was in so much pain I was crying. I heard them say outside the
> exam room door, "But we just gave her a shot 20 minutes ago." "I don't
> care, give her another one!" The second one did the trick. Then they
> took me for some test to make sure it wasn't my appendix. Nope, and I was
> admitted immediately. It was a raging infection and they were worried
> about possible peritonitis.
>
> Needless to say, I avoid anything that contains hard seeds. That includes
> fresh tomatoes. I do buy tomato puree and canned tomato sauce. I don't
> snack on sunflower seeds or pumpkin seeds like I used to.
>
> The thing that gets me is the gastroenterologist tried to convince me, in
> follow up visits to his office, if I didn't have major surgery I'd wind up
> with an ostomy bag (for the rest of my life) within three years. Yet when
> I told him I don't have health insurance, he was suddenly all about giving
> me pamphlets on what foods to avoid. Yeah, dude, you don't get to bilk an
> insurance company for unnecessary surgery. Five years later, I'm fine. I
> just watch what I eat.
>
> Jill

Do you still not have health insurance? How did you pay for a week in the
hospital? I don't have any right now either and worries me... My ex signed
up for Medicaid recently, but I don't qualify. In this state, you have to
be elderly or have dependent kids, or disabled... She's lucky she
qualified. She had to go to emergency room couple weeks ago, turned out she
had/has some bad kidney stones. (I suspect the liter of diet Dr Pepper she
would drink a day may be at least partly the cause. Cola is on the list of
no-no's.) She also had to have a Cat scan, etc recently. Luckily, not
cancer but bad infections from the kidney stones. I didn't realize women
got kidney stones; I thought it was a guy thing.

I wonder about nuts. Niece's mil has diverticulitis and looks uncomfortable
at times, especially if someone mentions nuts while we are eating... I
wonder if I should not eat nuts. But they are supposed have some protein
and being veggie I try to throw sunflower seeds on my salad pretty often. I
also enjoy pistachios-- especially opening a hard to open one and finally
getting it open, but they are kinda pricey and pretty fattening so I don't
get them often... And during the holidays, I enjoy walnuts. I like
breaking them open too. Got a cheap nutcracker for $3 at Wal-Mart the other
day.

On 11/3/2012 12:07 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 11:21:01 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/2/2012 10:26 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:37:23 -0400, "Richard K." >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Before unions, things were pretty awful for a lot of workers.
>>>
>>> Their work situation was abysmal: 12 hour days and 6 day work weeks.
>>>
>>
>> And now 7 hour days and 15 weeks paid vacation for union teachers in my
>> state. Problem is the extremes.
>
> Said like someone who doesn't have a clue about the realities of
> teaching.
>
Said by someone who has no clue about the realities of other jobs one
might have with equivalent education.

"Richard K." wrote in message ...

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> "Richard K." wrote in message ...
>
> I've been wanting Bertolli lately, but Kroger where I normally go charges
> $3.29 (at best, $2.69 or $2.99 on sale), but the Wal-Mart grocery sells it
> for only $1.98.
> (snipped)
>
>
>
> AFAIC one jarred sauce is pretty much the same as the next. Bertolli is
> good but then again so is a can of Hunt's spaghetti sauce Personally I
> like the Paul Newman brand. IME you have to add something to any jarred
> or canned sauce to make it test better. Sauteed minced garlic, basil,
> thyme...
>
> Sure, I could make my own tomato sauce from fresh tomatoes. But I don't
> own a sieve or a food mill and I have to avoid the seeds. So I buy the
> jars or cans and "tart it up" with herbs and spices.
>
> Jill


I agree about Newman, but disagree about Hunt's. Hunts is cheap at 99 cents
but tasted very sweet. I think it's mostly corn syrup and cheap
ingredients. Newman's is good, but pricey even when on sale.
****************

I read the ingredients and you're right, they've changed it. Hunts didn't
used to be more than just tomato puree, perhaps with a little seasoning.
Now, HCFS. (Not that I'm terribly concerned about it.)

Jill

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 12:23:45 -0400, George >
wrote:

> On 11/3/2012 12:07 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 11:21:01 -0400, George >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/2/2012 10:26 PM, sf wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:37:23 -0400, "Richard K." >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Before unions, things were pretty awful for a lot of workers.
> >>>
> >>> Their work situation was abysmal: 12 hour days and 6 day work weeks.
> >>>
> >>
> >> And now 7 hour days and 15 weeks paid vacation for union teachers in my
> >> state. Problem is the extremes.
> >
> > Said like someone who doesn't have a clue about the realities of
> > teaching.
> >
> Said by someone who has no clue about the realities of other jobs one
> might have with equivalent education.

I most certainly do and so far you have nothing.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 11/3/2012 11:33 AM, Richard K. wrote:
> "George" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 11/2/2012 10:26 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:37:23 -0400, "Richard K." >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Before unions, things were pretty awful for a lot of workers.
>>>
>>> Their work situation was abysmal: 12 hour days and 6 day work weeks.
>>>
>>
>> And now 7 hour days and 15 weeks paid vacation for union teachers in my
>> state. Problem is the extremes.
>
>
> How did the teachers union get so strong? But aren't even their unions
> being broken down some, like in Wisconsin?... I've read union workers in
> the US are in single digits now.
>
>

Don't know. At least in my state the teachers union is the most powerful
union. The thugs who run unions learned they don't need to stand in the
alley wearing a hoodie. They can dress in a suit and make lots of money
running a union.

I think the main issue is the extremism. I am not advocating walmart
class teacher jobs but the thugs who run the union have to keep asking
for more to justify their own positions. So when those thugs who
represent teachers who make comparable pay to private sector jobs who
have 15 weeks vacation, the best possible health plan crafted especially
for them and retirement after 30 years run strikes that inconvenience
taxpayers asking for even more it is just too much.

On 11/3/2012 11:38 AM, Richard K. wrote:
> "George" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 11/3/2012 10:52 AM, sf wrote:
>
>>> If they are worth even a tenth of what they're paid to protect
>>> workers, it's money well spent.
>>>
>>
>> Tell that to say the former employees of say the large local manufacturer
>> that used to be nearby. The place was famous for uncooperative employees
>> carrying everything to an extreme "its not my job" working behind the
>> shield of the union. There is such a thing as knowing when enough is
>> enough and not to make a pig of yourself buy union thugs don't know that
>> concept.
>
>
> I don't understand why unions with such people don't purge them, or at least
> sanction them. But look at other institutions like the Catholic Church and
> Boy Scouts and all the things they've kept secret... Rare to hear of a
> union member get fired. But they go too far and can. The one steward where
> I worked did. He apparently was screwing a dismas worker (work release
> program) and took pictures and left them in his office in the basement. He
> wasn't a very bright guy.
>
>
Isn't that the whole point of a union? Everyone is the same as everyone
else and they all need to be protected? In the case of the place I
mentioned if say your job was to operated a certain piece of equipment
and say a tank was overflowing and it was causing damage you weren't
allowed to do anything about it because "it wasn't your job".

On 11/3/2012 12:11 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 11:26:02 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/3/2012 10:52 AM, sf wrote:
>>> On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 23:41:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:37:23 -0400, "Richard K." >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Your stories point out some very stupid things. But there are also a lot of
>>>>> anecdotes that could be told of what working conditions in the US were like
>>>>> before unions... child labor, sweat shops, no workers comp, low wages,
>>>>> getting fired without cause, workers beaten and killed for trying to
>>>>> unionize and protect their rights, etc. Before unions, things were pretty
>>>>> awful for a lot of workers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very true, but the good the unions did back then does not justify what
>>>> some unions do now to exploit the workers for their dues. Look up the
>>>> wages of the union bosses too. Higher than the wage earner they
>>>> supposedly represent.
>>>
>>> If they are worth even a tenth of what they're paid to protect
>>> workers, it's money well spent.
>>>
>>
>> Tell that to say the former employees of say the large local
>> manufacturer that used to be nearby. The place was famous for
>> uncooperative employees carrying everything to an extreme "its not my
>> job" working behind the shield of the union. There is such a thing as
>> knowing when enough is enough and not to make a pig of yourself buy
>> union thugs don't know that concept.
>
> So, you'd like to drive a car wired by someone who is a well trained
> roofer? Good for you.
>

Sorry, I have no idea what your point might be.

But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I
know is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high position
at a union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you
paid this guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a skilled
union electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.

sf wrote:

> > > Their work situation was abysmal: 12 hour days and 6 day work weeks.

> > And now 7 hour days and 15 weeks paid vacation for union teachers in my
> > state. Problem is the extremes.
>
> Said like someone who doesn't have a clue about the realities of
> teaching.

Maybe he's talking about a part-time job.

"Richard K." wrote in message ...

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> "Brooklyn1" wrote in message
> ...
>
> Gary wrote:
>>jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>> Crushed tomatoes don't work for me. Seeds. Can't have the seeds.
>>
>>Are you allergic to them? I never even notice or care about the seeds.
>
> Diverticulosis. There are tinned crushed tomatoes that have the seeds
> removed, most contain no seeds. Or one can use tinned pureed
> tomatoes. The seeds don't bother me, my favorite is the tinned whole
> peeled tomatoes in puree. During the fall months is when tinned
> tomatoes are on sale, they're typically about half price so I stock
> up.
>
>
> It's Diverticulitis. Diverticulosis is a precursor to Diverticulitis and
> I was warned to stay away from nuts and indigestible seeds. I blame
> popcorn. My mother insisted I share a bowl of popcorn with her every
> night. I wound up in the hospital for a week around July, 2008. I was
> supposed to be taking care of my mother. I was also supposed to be cat
> sitting for our neighbor. I called the neighbor from the hospital and she
> arranged for someone else to take care of her cats.
>
> Meanwhile, my 82 year old mom was trying to take care of Persia. Food and
> water, no problem. But scooping a litter box wasn't something she'd ever
> had to do before. Meanwhile, I'm in the hospital with a drain inserted in
> my back. It was a very severe infection. I was on IV antibiotics (and
> some really good pain meds, too!) Meanwhile, I was calling Mom three
> times a to make sure SHE had eaten.
>
> I wouldn't look forward to that painful experience again. And it was
> *very* painful! They gave me a shot of morphine in the ER and that wasn't
> enough. I was in so much pain I was crying. I heard them say outside the
> exam room door, "But we just gave her a shot 20 minutes ago." "I don't
> care, give her another one!" The second one did the trick. Then they
> took me for some test to make sure it wasn't my appendix. Nope, and I was
> admitted immediately. It was a raging infection and they were worried
> about possible peritonitis.
>
> Needless to say, I avoid anything that contains hard seeds. That includes
> fresh tomatoes. I do buy tomato puree and canned tomato sauce. I don't
> snack on sunflower seeds or pumpkin seeds like I used to.
>
> The thing that gets me is the gastroenterologist tried to convince me, in
> follow up visits to his office, if I didn't have major surgery I'd wind up
> with an ostomy bag (for the rest of my life) within three years. Yet when
> I told him I don't have health insurance, he was suddenly all about giving
> me pamphlets on what foods to avoid. Yeah, dude, you don't get to bilk an
> insurance company for unnecessary surgery. Five years later, I'm fine. I
> just watch what I eat.
>
> Jill

Do you still not have health insurance? How did you pay for a week in the
hospital? I don't have any right now either and worries me... My ex signed
up for Medicaid recently, but I don't qualify. In this state, you have to
be elderly or have dependent kids, or disabled... She's lucky she
qualified. She had to go to emergency room couple weeks ago, turned out she
had/has some bad kidney stones. (I suspect the liter of diet Dr Pepper she
would drink a day may be at least partly the cause. Cola is on the list of
no-no's.) She also had to have a Cat scan, etc recently. Luckily, not
cancer but bad infections from the kidney stones. I didn't realize women
got kidney stones; I thought it was a guy thing.

I wonder about nuts. Niece's mil has diverticulitis and looks uncomfortable
at times, especially if someone mentions nuts while we are eating... I
wonder if I should not eat nuts. But they are supposed have some protein
and being veggie I try to throw sunflower seeds on my salad pretty often. I
also enjoy pistachios-- especially opening a hard to open one and finally
getting it open, but they are kinda pricey and pretty fattening so I don't
get them often... And during the holidays, I enjoy walnuts. I like
breaking them open too. Got a cheap nutcracker for $3 at Wal-Mart the other
day.
**************

No, I still don't have health insurance. I had some money saved up and Mom
helped with the outpatient bills. Frankly, I was able to get the hospital
to write off a lot of their inpatient services because I was my mom's
primary caretaker and I told them I didn't have insurance.

I used to love buying nuts in the shell and cracking them open around the
holidays. Walnuts, pecans, brazil nuts, hazel nuts, almonds. Can't do that
anymore. I love pistachios, too, but I also avoid them. And the wonderful
bread they sell at the Publix bakery contains sun flower kernels. Nope.
Better safe than sorry. Ditty sesame seed buns and poppy seed rolls. It's
a shame, but I live with it. At least I don't have food allergies or gluten
intolerance.

Jill

>>
>> So, you'd like to drive a car wired by someone who is a well trained
>> roofer? Good for you.
>>
>
> Sorry, I have no idea what your point might be.
>
> But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I know
> is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high position at a
> union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you paid this
> guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a skilled union
> electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.

Isn't that because the Mob has infiltrated some of these unions?

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 12:40:39 -0400, George >
wrote:

> But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I
> know is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high position
> at a union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you
> paid this guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a skilled
> union electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.

You obviously can't tell when Union is just another word for Mafia.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...

The thing that gets me is the gastroenterologist tried to convince me, in
follow up visits to his office, if I didn't have major surgery I'd wind up
with an ostomy bag (for the rest of my life) within three years. Yet when
I told him I don't have health insurance, he was suddenly all about giving
me pamphlets on what foods to avoid. Yeah, dude, you don't get to bilk an
insurance company for unnecessary surgery. Five years later, I'm fine. I
just watch what I eat.
Jill
========

A very sad state of affairs. I was uninsured for 13 years and it can be a
nightmare trying to find doctors who will even see you. I've always said
there are no uninsured hypochondriacs, and it's amazing how much a person
can actually do for themselves without a fist full of pills or surgery in
your case.

Cheri

On 11/3/2012 1:30 PM, graham wrote:
>>>
>>> So, you'd like to drive a car wired by someone who is a well trained
>>> roofer? Good for you.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, I have no idea what your point might be.
>>
>> But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I know
>> is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high position at a
>> union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you paid this
>> guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a skilled union
>> electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.
>
> Isn't that because the Mob has infiltrated some of these unions?
>
>
Absolutely. As I mentioned before unions are operated by the riff raff
who discovered they don't need to wear a hoodie and wait in an alley to
enrich themselves. Instead they wear a nice suit and have a nice haircut
and a nice big salary.

Do you think that somehow because someone holds a paper with the
imprimatur of the union thugs it is indicative of the skills they possess?

On 11/3/2012 1:47 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 12:40:39 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
>> But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I
>> know is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high position
>> at a union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you
>> paid this guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a skilled
>> union electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.
>
> You obviously can't tell when Union is just another word for Mafia.
>

But yet you take great offense when teachers unions are mentioned as if
somehow teachers unions are pure as new snow...

On 11/3/2012 12:29 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 12:23:45 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/3/2012 12:07 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 11:21:01 -0400, George >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/2/2012 10:26 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:37:23 -0400, "Richard K." >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Before unions, things were pretty awful for a lot of workers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Their work situation was abysmal: 12 hour days and 6 day work weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And now 7 hour days and 15 weeks paid vacation for union teachers in my
>>>> state. Problem is the extremes.
>>>
>>> Said like someone who doesn't have a clue about the realities of
>>> teaching.
>>>
>> Said by someone who has no clue about the realities of other jobs one
>> might have with equivalent education.
>
> I most certainly do and so far you have nothing.
>

OK, lets start by you identifying what other job with equivalent
education requirements comes with a 15 week paid vacation?

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 14:17:29 -0400, George >
wrote:

> OK, lets start by you identifying what other job with equivalent
> education requirements comes with a 15 week paid vacation?

How about you waking up and admitting that teachers work, unpaid,
throughout most of that so called vacation?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 14:15:33 -0400, George >
wrote:

> On 11/3/2012 1:30 PM, graham wrote:
> >>>
> >>> So, you'd like to drive a car wired by someone who is a well trained
> >>> roofer? Good for you.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Sorry, I have no idea what your point might be.
> >>
> >> But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I know
> >> is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high position at a
> >> union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you paid this
> >> guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a skilled union
> >> electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.
> >
> > Isn't that because the Mob has infiltrated some of these unions?
> >
> >
> Absolutely. As I mentioned before unions are operated by the riff raff
> who discovered they don't need to wear a hoodie and wait in an alley to
> enrich themselves. Instead they wear a nice suit and have a nice haircut
> and a nice big salary.
>
> Do you think that somehow because someone holds a paper with the
> imprimatur of the union thugs it is indicative of the skills they possess?

You should try living in a better part of the country.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 14:15:51 -0400, George >
wrote:

> On 11/3/2012 1:47 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 12:40:39 -0400, George >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I
> >> know is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high position
> >> at a union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you
> >> paid this guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a skilled
> >> union electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.
> >
> > You obviously can't tell when Union is just another word for Mafia.
> >
>
> But yet you take great offense when teachers unions are mentioned as if
> somehow teachers unions are pure as new snow...

You're the one with a problem with unions, so don't belong to one.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"Cheri" wrote in message ...

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...

The thing that gets me is the gastroenterologist tried to convince me, in
follow up visits to his office, if I didn't have major surgery I'd wind up
with an ostomy bag (for the rest of my life) within three years. Yet when
I told him I don't have health insurance, he was suddenly all about giving
me pamphlets on what foods to avoid. Yeah, dude, you don't get to bilk an
insurance company for unnecessary surgery. Five years later, I'm fine. I
just watch what I eat.
Jill
========

A very sad state of affairs. I was uninsured for 13 years and it can be a
nightmare trying to find doctors who will even see you. I've always said
there are no uninsured hypochondriacs, and it's amazing how much a person
can actually do for themselves without a fist full of pills or surgery in
your case.

Cheri
************
Oh, I quite agree. I just watch what I eat. It was ridiculous for him to
suggest the surgery was my only option... until he thought he could bilk an
insurance company. It's no wonder health care in the US is screwed up.
Greedy doctors filing claims for unnecessary procedures.

To see a doctor for anything these days don't make an appointment unless you
can pay cash up front.

Jill

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 14:15:51 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/3/2012 1:47 PM, sf wrote:
>> > On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 12:40:39 -0400, George >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I
>> >> know is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high
>> >> position
>> >> at a union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you
>> >> paid this guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a
>> >> skilled
>> >> union electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.
>> >
>> > You obviously can't tell when Union is just another word for Mafia.
>> >
>>
>> But yet you take great offense when teachers unions are mentioned as if
>> somehow teachers unions are pure as new snow...
>
> You're the one with a problem with unions, so don't belong to one.
>
Something's wrong here, sf. I'm agreeing with you{:-)
Graham

"Cheri" > wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> The thing that gets me is the gastroenterologist tried to convince me, in
> follow up visits to his office, if I didn't have major surgery I'd wind up
> with an ostomy bag (for the rest of my life) within three years. Yet when
> I told him I don't have health insurance, he was suddenly all about giving
> me pamphlets on what foods to avoid. Yeah, dude, you don't get to bilk an
> insurance company for unnecessary surgery. Five years later, I'm fine. I
> just watch what I eat.
> Jill
> ========
>
> A very sad state of affairs. I was uninsured for 13 years and it can be a
> nightmare trying to find doctors who will even see you. I've always said
> there are no uninsured hypochondriacs, and it's amazing how much a person
> can actually do for themselves without a fist full of pills or surgery in your case.
>
> Cheri

Surgeons make their money doing surgery. Doctors make their money giving
advice.

Greg

"George" > wrote in message
...

> I think the main issue is the extremism. I am not advocating walmart class
> teacher jobs but the thugs who run the union have to keep asking for more
> to justify their own positions. So when those thugs who represent
> teachers who make comparable pay to private sector jobs who have 15 weeks
> vacation, the best possible health plan crafted especially for them and
> retirement after 30 years run strikes that inconvenience taxpayers asking
> for even more it is just too much.


I think teachers are underpaid. And many of them are not on vacation all
summer but taking classes.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...

> Oh, I quite agree. I just watch what I eat. It was ridiculous for him to
> suggest the surgery was my only option... until he thought he could bilk
> an insurance company. It's no wonder health care in the US is screwed up.
> Greedy doctors filing claims for unnecessary procedures.
>
> To see a doctor for anything these days don't make an appointment unless
> you can pay cash up front.
>
> Jill


A doctor I used to go to-- and really liked-- one day told me that when I
come in, I can only come in for one thing. It wasn't what he wanted to do,
but the practice he was with... So if you had a wart you wanted to get
treated, and also wanted to get a nasal spray prescription renewed; you had
to make two separate appointments... The new doctor I have will renew the
prescription without seeing me (for the nasal spray). There was no reason
to have an appointment to renew the prescription. The old doctor would ask
me about two questions and then write a new prescription for a year. Was
really a waste of my time, but I did need to occasionally have it on hand so
had to do it.

On 2012-11-04, gregz > wrote:

> Surgeons make their money doing surgery. Doctors make their money giving
> advice.

Doctors make their money pushing pills, then forcing patients to come
see them every 4 mos for a blood test under the pretense that they
give a damn about you, when really it's only to force one to cough up
office visit fees under the threat of not renewing one's prescription.
Unscrupulous greedy bastids.

nb


--
Definition of objectivism:
"Eff you! I got mine."
http://www.nongmoproject.org/

On 2012-11-04, Richard K. > wrote:

> I think teachers are underpaid. And many of them are not on vacation all
> summer but taking classes.

Sorry, but that horse don't fly!

I hear that sniveling crap all the time. "We have to take classes in
the Summer to keep our education current <weep, snivel, whine...>"

Well who the Hell doesn't!!?? I went, first, to junior college, than
later to 4 yr college, all while I was working full time --nay,
overtime! -- and not during some kick back 3 month vacation. It's
called night school. I'm talking 50-70 hr work weeks ...plus school.
Plus homework. (harrumph!)

I'm not saying teachers shouldn't get more pay, but let's knock off
this "but look how hard we work" horsecrap, tout de suite!

nb

--
Definition of objectivism:
"Eff you! I got mine."
http://www.nongmoproject.org/

notbob wrote:
>
> On 2012-11-04, gregz > wrote:
>
> > Surgeons make their money doing surgery. Doctors make their money giving
> > advice.
>
> Doctors make their money pushing pills, then forcing patients to come
> see them every 4 mos for a blood test under the pretense that they
> give a damn about you, when really it's only to force one to cough up
> office visit fees under the threat of not renewing one's prescription.
> Unscrupulous greedy bastids.

My dentist office has taken a turn for the worse. I've been with them since
he took over this business....about 30 years ago. Used to be, I could get
my 6 month cleaning, then any cavities fixed....then pay them off monthly
for up to 6 months when I went back for another cleaning.

Not any more. Recently, I had 2 fillings come out. He fixed one side on a
Thursday. I told the receptionist, "Let me just pay you on Monday when I
come back for the other one." She seemed very annoyed with that and
responded, "I guess so...as long as you pay in full on Monday." I felt like
I probably should have just paid for the one then. Luckily, I did have all
the money and paid them in full on Monday....$400 plus about $100 in lost
wages.

I talked to the old receptionist about this and she explained that their
accounts receivable got out of hand so they now require billing to last only
2-3 months if you can't pay all up front. Disturbing to me.

The last time I got a crown, it took me about 12 months to pay that off.
But they add a 10%APR interest to the unpaid balance (so they are making a
fair interest on the balance) and it was always good then. I wonder why
it's not acceptable now?

I guess this means that I need to put off preventive dental care now if I
don't have the cash at the time. If I have a problem and no cash, guess
I'll just have to wait and start losing teeth.

For 30 years now they have kept me updated with the tooth care and were fine
with my monthly payments. They got all their money plus any interest. To
now shut the door on people like me in that way just really sucks, imo.

I'm 59 now and I swear life is just an accumulation of losses. Your kids
grow up and move away, divorce can happen, neighborhood and city adds more
restrictions each year or two, doctors and dentists want their money up
front now, good friends either die or move away. Relatives and beloved pets
die. You have to give up some good food.... Sheez. Give me a break.

I've always been and still remain a very positive thinking person, but it
gets harder and harder to be so as life continues. Sometimes I joke that
maybe I died unknowingly years ago and I'm in hell now and just don't
realize it. /

Gary

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2012-11-04, Richard K. > wrote:
>
>> I think teachers are underpaid. And many of them are not on vacation all
>> summer but taking classes.
>
> Sorry, but that horse don't fly!
>
> I hear that sniveling crap all the time. "We have to take classes in
> the Summer to keep our education current <weep, snivel, whine...>"
>
> Well who the Hell doesn't!!?? I went, first, to junior college, than
> later to 4 yr college, all while I was working full time --nay,
> overtime! -- and not during some kick back 3 month vacation. It's
> called night school. I'm talking 50-70 hr work weeks ...plus school.
> Plus homework. (harrumph!)
>
> I'm not saying teachers shouldn't get more pay, but let's knock off
> this "but look how hard we work" horsecrap, tout de suite!
>
> nb

You ever try to keep kids ages 5-17 attention, every day for 180+ days?
Being a teacher must be difficult just in that regard, even in "good"
schools. And nowadays they aren't allowed to spank or hit kids with rulers
like the good old days.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> I've always been and still remain a very positive thinking person, but it
> gets harder and harder to be so as life continues. Sometimes I joke that
> maybe I died unknowingly years ago and I'm in hell now and just don't
> realize it. /
>
> Gary


I've wondered this too...

On 11/3/2012 3:05 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 14:17:29 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
>> OK, lets start by you identifying what other job with equivalent
>> education requirements comes with a 15 week paid vacation?
>
> How about you waking up and admitting that teachers work, unpaid,
> throughout most of that so called vacation?
>

Teachers jobs like most jobs are based on an annual salary. So lets say
they hire you at a salary of say $60k/year for any job. That means just
considering salary you are paid $1,1154/week. If you work in the
private sector you are typically required to work for 50 of those weeks
and you are free to do what you want for the other two weeks while
receiving your salary. If you are a teacher you are required to work for
~ 37 of those weeks and are free to do what you want with pay for 15 weeks.

Either the private sector person or the public sector teacher can
certainly choose to work through their vacation for extra income.

On 11/3/2012 3:06 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 14:15:33 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/3/2012 1:30 PM, graham wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you'd like to drive a car wired by someone who is a well trained
>>>>> roofer? Good for you.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I have no idea what your point might be.
>>>>
>>>> But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I know
>>>> is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high position at a
>>>> union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you paid this
>>>> guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a skilled union
>>>> electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.
>>>
>>> Isn't that because the Mob has infiltrated some of these unions?
>>>
>>>
>> Absolutely. As I mentioned before unions are operated by the riff raff
>> who discovered they don't need to wear a hoodie and wait in an alley to
>> enrich themselves. Instead they wear a nice suit and have a nice haircut
>> and a nice big salary.
>>
>> Do you think that somehow because someone holds a paper with the
>> imprimatur of the union thugs it is indicative of the skills they possess?
>
> You should try living in a better part of the country.
>

I see you totally missed my point....

On 11/3/2012 3:08 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 14:15:51 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/3/2012 1:47 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 12:40:39 -0400, George >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But I can tell a good story about "skilled union trades". Someone I
>>>> know is on the shady side and they worked their way into a high position
>>>> at a union. There was a large power plant being built nearby. If you
>>>> paid this guy a fee and made future payments suddenly you were a skilled
>>>> union electrician or carpenter "working" at the power plant job.
>>>
>>> You obviously can't tell when Union is just another word for Mafia.
>>>
>>
>> But yet you take great offense when teachers unions are mentioned as if
>> somehow teachers unions are pure as new snow...
>
> You're the one with a problem with unions, so don't belong to one.
>

Just so I understand all unions are go no matter how corrupt they are?

"George" > wrote in message
...

> Just so I understand all unions are go [sic] no matter how corrupt they
> are?


People are corrupt, not institutions... Be it government, Catholic Church,
unions, Enron, BP, guns etc... Best institutions are those that have
oversight and transparency. When any institution has people that do dumb or
corrupt things, it should be in the news and be made fun of by comedians.
Corrupt people should be ostracized, jailed and purged. (Until they repent
and find Jesus.)

notbob wrote:
>
> On 2012-11-04, Richard K. > wrote:
>
> > I think teachers are underpaid. And many of them are not on vacation all
> > summer but taking classes.
>
> Sorry, but that horse don't fly!
>
> I hear that sniveling crap all the time. "We have to take classes in
> the Summer to keep our education current <weep, snivel, whine...>"
>
> Well who the Hell doesn't!!?? I went, first, to junior college, than
> later to 4 yr college, all while I was working full time --nay,
> overtime! -- and not during some kick back 3 month vacation. It's
> called night school. I'm talking 50-70 hr work weeks ...plus school.
> Plus homework. (harrumph!)
>
> I'm not saying teachers shouldn't get more pay, but let's knock off
> this "but look how hard we work" horsecrap, tout de suite!

This is true. I personally know two teachers. One brags about all the
benefits and all the time off. The other one whines and crys about all the
time at home working at nights (to grade papers) and all the summer time
planning for the next years class. This one only teaches one class
(psychology) in high school. Seems to me that since she's teaching the same
exact class every year to new students, her first year should have set the
teaching schedule and not much need to "plan" for the next year.

Teachers make a decent living no matter where they are. To me, the ones
that whine and cry are the ones that should be fired. They made their
career choice. It was fine back then but now they are dissatisfied and
complain about their poor situation.

Gary

On 11/4/2012 8:37 AM, Richard K. wrote:
> "George" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Just so I understand all unions are go [sic] no matter how corrupt they
>> are?
>
>
> People are corrupt, not institutions... Be it government, Catholic Church,
> unions, Enron, BP, guns etc... Best institutions are those that have
> oversight and transparency. When any institution has people that do dumb or
> corrupt things, it should be in the news and be made fun of by comedians.
> Corrupt people should be ostracized, jailed and purged. (Until they repent
> and find Jesus.)
>
>

And discussed and identified in any public arena such as this one. But
nothing will change if people declare "you're the one with the problem"
defending all unions.

jmcquown wrote:
>
> When I was still living in Tennessee I had a personal relationship with my
> primary care physician. I'd known him since we were teenagers. He went to
> high school with my brother so I knew him before he ever decided to go to
> medical school. When/if I needed a prescription he'd give me samples. No
> charge. I had a mole on my neck that was bothering me. He removed it, no
> charge.

;-)

On 2012-11-04, Richard K. > wrote:

> You ever try to keep kids ages 5-17 attention, every day for 180+ days?

Ever hadda babysit a buncha bitchy old women assemblers from the "old
country", who groused and kvetched about everything they didn't like
and conveniently became dumb as a newborn babe when it came to doing a
part of their job they didn't want to? I'll take kids any day.

> And nowadays they aren't allowed to spank or hit kids with rulers
> like the good old days.

More's the pity. The beginning of the end of polite society as we
knew it. You can't put a couple dozen kids under the supervision of
an adult for eight hours and then NOT give that adult ANY power to
discipline those in his/her charge. That's jes plain stupid! On this
issue you will get no argument from me. BTW, guess who made it a
social and legal no-no to discipline school children. The witless
arrogant parents of those very same children. It was yours and my
generation did that!!. And now they/we wonder why today's kids are so
disrespectful. It's a dead heat as to who is dumber, the kids or the
parents. Talk about reap the whirlwind! 8|

nb


--
Definition of objectivism:
"Eff you! I got mine."
http://www.nongmoproject.org/