"I'm back" > wrote in message
...
> "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,"
> declared NRA vice-president Wayne LaPierre.
>
> Very true....... and out of a population of 314,980,938.... only 400,000
> have signed a petition, and the President is going to act on that???!!!
>
> After Virginia Tech (2007), LaPierre asked for trained, armed
> police/gaurds
> to be stationed at every school, and he was ridiculed for it. If that
> suggestion had been enacted, the situation at Sandy Hook would be an
> entirely different story.

and who is going to pay for that? There is already a 16 trillion deficit or
whatever... Perhaps the military can do it?

"Somebody" > wrote in
:

> "I'm back" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a
>> gun," declared NRA vice-president Wayne LaPierre.
>>
>> Very true....... and out of a population of 314,980,938.... only
>> 400,000 have signed a petition, and the President is going to act on
>> that???!!!
>>
>> After Virginia Tech (2007), LaPierre asked for trained, armed
>> police/gaurds
>> to be stationed at every school, and he was ridiculed for it. If that
>> suggestion had been enacted, the situation at Sandy Hook would be an
>> entirely different story.
>
> and who is going to pay for that? There is already a 16 trillion
> deficit or whatever... Perhaps the military can do it?
>
>



Why not? You have plenty of very experienced ex-military out there.

Or, the US does what Australia did after a couple of major disasters,
levied everyone $2(IIRC) for a couple of weeks, raised many millions of
$$'s and used that for the cleanup etc.

If everyone in the US paid $1 each, you'd have a spare $315M to use to
pay for armed police/guards at every school, for quite some time.


$1 to potentially save a kids life...... will you balk at it and refuse?

--
Peter
Brisbane
Australia

To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one.
It is rather and endless struggle
that will go on to the very last moment of our lives.
Nobody is born a warrior,in exactly the same way that
nobody is born an average man.
We have to make ourselves into one or the other.
A warrior must only take care that his spirit is not broken.

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:14:01 +0000 (UTC), "I'm back" >
wrote:

> > and who is going to pay for that? There is already a 16 trillion
> > deficit or whatever... Perhaps the military can do it?
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Why not? You have plenty of very experienced ex-military out there.

Like he said: Who's going to pay for that?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

sf > wrote in news:amo9d8d625i8848lils6tgbht1i4nbo9e0@
4ax.com:

> On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:14:01 +0000 (UTC), "I'm back" >
> wrote:
>
>> > and who is going to pay for that? There is already a 16 trillion
>> > deficit or whatever... Perhaps the military can do it?
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> Why not? You have plenty of very experienced ex-military out there.
>
> Like he said: Who's going to pay for that?
>



$1 levy per head of population. $315M straight off the bat to fund many
years of wages.



--
Peter
Brisbane
Australia

To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one.
It is rather and endless struggle
that will go on to the very last moment of our lives.
Nobody is born a warrior,in exactly the same way that
nobody is born an average man.
We have to make ourselves into one or the other.
A warrior must only take care that his spirit is not broken.

"I'm back" > wrote in message
...
> "Somebody" > wrote in
>> and who is going to pay for that? There is already a 16 trillion
>> deficit or whatever... Perhaps the military can do it?
>
> Why not? You have plenty of very experienced ex-military out there.
>
> Or, the US does what Australia did after a couple of major disasters,
> levied everyone $2(IIRC) for a couple of weeks, raised many millions of
> $$'s and used that for the cleanup etc.
>
> If everyone in the US paid $1 each, you'd have a spare $315M to use to
> pay for armed police/guards at every school, for quite some time.
>
>
> $1 to potentially save a kids life...... will you balk at it and refuse?

You could say that about all kinds of things: diseases, crumbling
infrastructure, education, health care.... It sounds good to say it will
save lives, but everything has a C/B ratio. People say you can't put a
price on a life, but it's done all the time.

I heard on Public Radio earlier, that $400 million a year is spent on
military marching bands. Is that true?

nope, it's apparently $500 million!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090603018.html

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:14:01 +0000 (UTC), "I'm back" >
> wrote:
>
>> > and who is going to pay for that? There is already a 16 trillion
>> > deficit or whatever... Perhaps the military can do it?
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> Why not? You have plenty of very experienced ex-military out there.
>
> Like he said: Who's going to pay for that?

"$1 to potentially save a kids life"

only $1 and all children will be potentially safe! How can anyone not
agree to that?

"Somebody" > wrote in news:kb3ak0$nkm$1@dont-
email.me:

> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:14:01 +0000 (UTC), "I'm back" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > and who is going to pay for that? There is already a 16 trillion
>>> > deficit or whatever... Perhaps the military can do it?
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why not? You have plenty of very experienced ex-military out there.
>>
>> Like he said: Who's going to pay for that?
>
> "$1 to potentially save a kids life"
>
> only $1 and all children will be potentially safe! How can anyone
not
> agree to that?
>
>
>


As you are quite obviously a shit stirring troll, I'll repeat what i
said.......

"$1 levy per head of population. $315M straight off the bat to fund many
years of wages."

--
Peter
Brisbane
Australia

To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one.
It is rather and endless struggle
that will go on to the very last moment of our lives.
Nobody is born a warrior,in exactly the same way that
nobody is born an average man.
We have to make ourselves into one or the other.
A warrior must only take care that his spirit is not broken.

"I'm back" > wrote in message
...

> "$1 levy per head of population. $315M straight off the bat to fund many
> years of wages."

I don't think I will ever hire you as an accountant.

"I'm back" > wrote in message
...

> "$1 levy per head of population. $315M straight off the bat to fund many
> years of wages."


Since people without guns are helpless-- and not part of the problem-- then
only gun owners should pay a fee to finance it. I know almost no gun owners
are part of the problem, but people without guns are definitely not part of
the problem so should be exempt.

I'm back wrote:
>
> sf > wrote in news:amo9d8d625i8848lils6tgbht1i4nbo9e0@
> 4ax.com:
>
> > On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:14:01 +0000 (UTC), "I'm back" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> > and who is going to pay for that? There is already a 16 trillion
> >> > deficit or whatever... Perhaps the military can do it?
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Why not? You have plenty of very experienced ex-military out there.
> >
> > Like he said: Who's going to pay for that?
> >
>
> $1 levy per head of population. $315M straight off the bat to fund many
> years of wages.

LOL! Do the math, Peter.

There are approx. 130,000 public and private schools in the US.
$315 million would give each officer (one per school) a little over $2400.
For a years pay?

Gary

Virginia Beach and surrounding cities have had an officer in every middle
and high school every school day for years now. I think since the Va.Tech
shootings in 2007. These are real on-duty police officers each with police
cars parked at the schools.

Police in VB starting salary is around $40K so lets say it costs taxpayers
about $30K per school for this protection - the 9 month school year. That's
salary only. Each has a police car so that's extra resources spent on school
protection.

We state/city taxpayers pay for all that. Taxes went up but realistically,
the increase wasn't all that noticeable.

Somebody wrote:
>
> "I'm back" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > "$1 levy per head of population. $315M straight off the bat to fund many
> > years of wages."
>
> I don't think I will ever hire you as an accountant.

LOL. At least somebody did the math. heheh

G.

Somebody > wrote:

>Btw, I thought the NRA and conservative Republicans were for less government
>and taxes. They seem to be advocating more of a government police state.

Well think about it... they lost the last election, so now they
have hatched a plan -- leveraging off a national tragedy -- to
take over the schools.

It's a solid tactic, the Taliban got their start posting armed
partisans in each school.


Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Somebody > wrote:
>
>>Btw, I thought the NRA and conservative Republicans were for less
>>government
>>and taxes. They seem to be advocating more of a government police state.
>
> Well think about it... they lost the last election, so now they
> have hatched a plan -- leveraging off a national tragedy -- to
> take over the schools.
>
> It's a solid tactic, the Taliban got their start posting armed
> partisans in each school.
>
>
> Steve


How do you keep out the George Zimmermans, Barney Fifes, Steve Guttenbergs,
Dirty Harrys, KKK members, white supremacists, Black Panthers, Mark Furmans,
Tim Conways?

Somebody > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message

[NRA]

>> Well think about it... they lost the last election, so now they
>> have hatched a plan -- leveraging off a national tragedy -- to
>> take over the schools.
>>
>> It's a solid tactic, the Taliban got their start posting armed
>> partisans in each school.

>How do you keep out the George Zimmermans, Barney Fifes, Steve Guttenbergs,
>Dirty Harrys, KKK members, white supremacists, Black Panthers, Mark Furmans,
>Tim Conways?

Most of the above list, you sign up, you don't keep them out.

Steve

"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
...

> Great for an accountant, a clerk, a factory worker, or some such. I
> wouldn't sign up to be on duty 24/7, risk being shot at, get abused
> daily, and risk getting shot at for 40K. [and I haven't been to VB
> in 20 years or so-- but last time I was there, it wouldn't have been a
> place I'd put on a uniform for 100k.]

being in a HS around kids with raging hormones... sounds like a recipe for
disaster!

On Dec 22, 8:19*am, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> Somebody > wrote:
> >Btw, I thought the NRA and conservative Republicans were for less government
> >and taxes. *They seem to be advocating more of a government police state.
>
> Well think about it... they lost the last election, so now they
> have hatched a plan -- leveraging off a national tragedy -- to
> take over the schools.
>
> It's a solid tactic, the Taliban got their start posting armed
> partisans in each school.
>

If the massacre had happened six weeks earlier, Romney wins, just as
GWB did in 2000, as gun-owning Dems turned away from Gore for his tie-
breaking vote on post-Columbine gun control.

As hard as it may be to believe, the average gun owner simply does not
picture himself as a guy who will get up one morning, shoot his mother
in her bed, four times in her face, and then proceed to the nearest
grammar school to take out two dozen cherubic first graders. And he
somewhat resents being classified as such.

On 22/12/2012 4:51 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:

>>
>> As for the danger of the job... it certainly is not the most dangerous
>> job. The risk of a cop being shot here is a lot lower than in the US. We
>> lose a lot more to traffic accidents than to guns.
>
> In terms of workplace homicides, cab drivers are more likely to be
> killed in the US than are cops.
>


Logging, commercial fishing, mining, farming, garbage collection,
roofing, truck driving, movie stuntman and flying are all more dangerous
than being a cop.

"spamtrap1888" > wrote in message
...

All but one of the recent mass shooters had visible signs that he was
mentally disturbed. Let's start profiling these one-in-three-million
Americans, and keep them from buying guns.

To be 99% confident we got them all, we should look at 300 weirdoes.

---

are you/we going to start locking people up for being a "weirdo"?... Jails
are already crowded as are mental health institutions. Though prevention
surely is better than the alternative.

Gary > wrote in :

> I'm back wrote:
>>
>> sf > wrote in news:amo9d8d625i8848lils6tgbht1i4nbo9e0@
>> 4ax.com:
>>
>> > On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:14:01 +0000 (UTC), "I'm back" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> > and who is going to pay for that? There is already a 16
>> >> > trillion deficit or whatever... Perhaps the military can do it?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Why not? You have plenty of very experienced ex-military out
>> >> there.
>> >
>> > Like he said: Who's going to pay for that?
>> >
>>
>> $1 levy per head of population. $315M straight off the bat to fund
>> many years of wages.
>
> LOL! Do the math, Peter.
>
> There are approx. 130,000 public and private schools in the US.
> $315 million would give each officer (one per school) a little over
> $2400. For a years pay?
>


OK, not knowing how many schools you had.

You can cut out the private schools, they get their own funding and can
pay for their own.

Make the levy $1 per week for a year? That's a little over $16B.


--
Peter
Brisbane
Australia

To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one.
It is rather and endless struggle
that will go on to the very last moment of our lives.
Nobody is born a warrior,in exactly the same way that
nobody is born an average man.
We have to make ourselves into one or the other.
A warrior must only take care that his spirit is not broken.

Gary > wrote in :

> Somebody wrote:
>>
>> "I'm back" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > "$1 levy per head of population. $315M straight off the bat to fund
>> > many years of wages."
>>
>> I don't think I will ever hire you as an accountant.
>
> LOL. At least somebody did the math. heheh
>
> G.
>


The figure works out OK, I just didn't know how many schools you had. So
shoot me!!

I figgered with the general low level of intelligence in the States,
schools were in short supply.



--
Peter
Brisbane
Australia

To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one.
It is rather and endless struggle
that will go on to the very last moment of our lives.
Nobody is born a warrior,in exactly the same way that
nobody is born an average man.
We have to make ourselves into one or the other.
A warrior must only take care that his spirit is not broken.

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Somebody > wrote:
>
>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
>
> [NRA]
>
>>> Well think about it... they lost the last election, so now they
>>> have hatched a plan -- leveraging off a national tragedy -- to
>>> take over the schools.
>>>
>>> It's a solid tactic, the Taliban got their start posting armed
>>> partisans in each school.
>
>>How do you keep out the George Zimmermans, Barney Fifes, Steve
>>Guttenbergs,
>>Dirty Harrys, KKK members, white supremacists, Black Panthers, Mark
>>Furmans,
>>Tim Conways?
>
> Most of the above list, you sign up, you don't keep them out.
>
> Steve


Barney would be a good choice; they never had any murders in Mayberry did
they?

"On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 students and one
teacher at Columbine. On the scene that day was Neil Gardner, an armed
sheriff's deputy who had been policing the school for almost two years.

As a CNN report describes, Gardner was eating lunch when he got a call from
a custodian that he was needed in the school's back parking lot. A few
minutes later, he encountered Harris and the two exchanged gunfire. Harris
was not hit and ran back inside the school. At that point, "Gardner called
for additional units to respond to the south parking lot of Columbine High
School. . While he was on the radio calling for assistance, five other
Jefferson County deputies already were on their way, arriving only minutes
after the first report of a 'female down' at Columbine High School." Later,
Gardner saw Harris again, through a broken window. Once again, he fired.
Once again, he didn't hit him.

Though it's possible Gardner distracted Harris enough to prevent additional
carnage, that's ultimately unknowable. What does seem certain is that a
single armed security guard had little chance that day of preventing a pair
of heavily armed killers from doing what they set out to do.

Are there any cases of potential school shooters getting stopped before they
could kill? In a recent Explainer, Forrest Wickman cited a case in which two
men "confronted a Columbine-obsessed attacker in North Carolina who was
firing at cars outside the school and had killed his father that day. Armed
with his pistol, Ivey ordered the student to drop his weapons, and LeBlanc
(who was unarmed) put him in handcuffs."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...d_program.html

On Dec 22, 3:03*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> On 22/12/2012 4:51 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
>
>
> >> As for the danger of the job... it certainly is not the most dangerous
> >> job. The risk of a cop being shot here is a lot lower than in the US. We
> >> lose a lot more to traffic accidents than to guns.
>
> > In terms of workplace homicides, cab drivers are more likely to be
> > killed in the US than are cops.
>
> Logging, commercial fishing, mining, farming, garbage collection,
> roofing, truck driving, movie stuntman and flying are all more dangerous
> than being a cop.

Right, but you won't have a shootout with a log or a tuna.

On Dec 22, 5:18*pm, "Somebody" > wrote:
> "spamtrap1888" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> All but one of the recent mass shooters had visible signs that he was
> mentally disturbed. Let's start profiling these one-in-three-million
> Americans, and keep them from buying guns.
>
> To be 99% confident we got them all, we should look at 300 weirdoes.
>
> ---
>
> are you/we going to start locking people up for being a "weirdo"?... * Jails
> are already crowded as are mental health institutions. *Though prevention
> surely is better than the alternative.

1. The goal is to keep weirdos from buying guns, not to lock them up.
All sales through dealers go through the instant background check, as
do private party sales in California, Oregon, etc. If there was a data
base that said Loughner weirdo, Holmes weirdo, Lanza weirdo, then we
would have some handle on the problem.

"spamtrap1888" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 3:03 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> On 22/12/2012 4:51 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
>
>
> >> As for the danger of the job... it certainly is not the most dangerous
> >> job. The risk of a cop being shot here is a lot lower than in the US.
> >> We
> >> lose a lot more to traffic accidents than to guns.
>
> > In terms of workplace homicides, cab drivers are more likely to be
> > killed in the US than are cops.
>
> Logging, commercial fishing, mining, farming, garbage collection,
> roofing, truck driving, movie stuntman and flying are all more dangerous
> than being a cop.

Right, but you won't have a shootout with a log or a tuna.

---

Dave is right. I was thinking of being a Sanitation Tipper, still might be
an option perhaps. I have a CDL. But when I was researching it, it's in
the top 10 dangerous jobs in US.

Bullets scare people, but more likely to die from something else.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-10...rous-jobs.html

"spamtrap1888" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 5:18 pm, "Somebody" > wrote:
> "spamtrap1888" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> All but one of the recent mass shooters had visible signs that he was
> mentally disturbed. Let's start profiling these one-in-three-million
> Americans, and keep them from buying guns.
>
> To be 99% confident we got them all, we should look at 300 weirdoes.
>
> ---
>
> are you/we going to start locking people up for being a "weirdo"?... Jails
> are already crowded as are mental health institutions. Though prevention
> surely is better than the alternative.

1. The goal is to keep weirdos from buying guns, not to lock them up.
All sales through dealers go through the instant background check, as
do private party sales in California, Oregon, etc. If there was a data
base that said Loughner weirdo, Holmes weirdo, Lanza weirdo, then we
would have some handle on the problem.

---

agreed. anything that lessens the problem is good.
http://www.theonion.com/video/in-wak...of-ever,30762/

spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
> 1. The goal is to keep weirdos from buying guns, not to lock them up.
> All sales through dealers go through the instant background check, as
> do private party sales in California, Oregon, etc. If there was a data
> base that said Loughner weirdo, Holmes weirdo, Lanza weirdo, then we
> would have some handle on the problem.

This is where you anti-gun people miss the point. If someone is prevented
from legally buying a gun, they can always get one "on the street" for a bit
more money. And how do they pay the extra charge for an illegal gun? They
rob someone extra to pay for it.

G.

On 23/12/2012 6:19 AM, Gary wrote:
> spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>
>> 1. The goal is to keep weirdos from buying guns, not to lock them up.
>> All sales through dealers go through the instant background check, as
>> do private party sales in California, Oregon, etc. If there was a data
>> base that said Loughner weirdo, Holmes weirdo, Lanza weirdo, then we
>> would have some handle on the problem.
>
> This is where you anti-gun people miss the point. If someone is prevented
> from legally buying a gun, they can always get one "on the street" for a bit
> more money. And how do they pay the extra charge for an illegal gun? They
> rob someone extra to pay for it.
>



One of the usual arguments I hear from anti handgun people up here is
that most of the guns used in crimes have been stolen from legitimate
gun owners. Even the mayor of Toronto used that line, apparently being
fed the info from the chief of police. It turns out to be a crock and
that only a small number of guns recovered in crimes have been stolen
from homes here. Most of them are smuggled into the country.

It would make more sense to be to bring apply harsher penalties for
people who are caught with stolen handguns. However, we run into
another problem with that here because of the way we apply sentences.
It is already illegal to use a firearm in the commission of a crime, so
anyone charged with armed robbery is also charged with the firearm
offence. For some reason, it is almost always bargained away in plea
deals. Even if the person is convicted, our sentences are served
concurrently. If you commit 10 robberies and get 10 years on each, the
term is 10 years total. Then there is at he mandatory release after
serving 1/3 of the sentence.

Time served in jail waiting for trial is applied to the sentence. Until
recently, there was two for one credit for time served. It was not
unusual for people to delay trials in order to get the time credits
because they knew they would be going to jail but would only serve hald
as much time.

On 12/23/2012 7:51 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article <d3647822-8010-4d54-9e16-71aae4b66994
> @gg5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>, says...
>
>> 1. The goal is to keep weirdos from buying guns,
>
> Your problem with that, is that people may be quite normal when they
> legally acquire guns; no previous history of mental illness.
>
> What matters, is when previously sensible sane gun owners deteriorate
> into serious mental illness, drug addiction, alcoholism etc.
>
> Do any US states keep longterm track of legal gun owners to check if
> they are still fit to own guns ?


I posted this on FB earlier this week:

I bought a pistol a few months ago. Walked into the store, made my
selection, showed my driver's license and answered a few very
rudimentary questions where I affirmed that I wasn't on drugs, wasn't
mentally incapacitated and didn't have a felony record. Handed my credit
card to the sales person, added a box of ammo to my order and left. The
entire transaction took less then 10 minutes. I am only exaggerating
slightly when I say that it is harder to by Pseudophed than it is to buy
a gun.

George L

"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> In article <d3647822-8010-4d54-9e16-71aae4b66994
> @gg5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>, says...
>
>> 1. The goal is to keep weirdos from buying guns,
>
> Your problem with that, is that people may be quite normal when they
> legally acquire guns; no previous history of mental illness.
>
> What matters, is when previously sensible sane gun owners deteriorate
> into serious mental illness, drug addiction, alcoholism etc.
>
> Do any US states keep longterm track of legal gun owners to check if
> they are still fit to own guns ?
>
> Janet UK

like drivers licenses... people should be periodically retested. Wouldn't
catch everyone, but would some.

On Dec 23, 8:49*am, "Somebody" > wrote:
> "Janet" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > In article <d3647822-8010-4d54-9e16-71aae4b66994
> > @gg5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>, says...
>
> >> 1. The goal is to keep weirdos from buying guns,
>
> > *Your problem with that, is that people may be quite normal when they
> > legally acquire guns; *no previous history of mental illness.
>
> > *What matters, is when previously sensible sane gun owners deteriorate
> > into serious mental illness, drug addiction, alcoholism etc.
>
> > *Do any US states keep longterm track of legal gun owners to check if
> > they are still fit to own guns ?
>

>
> like drivers licenses... *people should be periodically retested. *Wouldn't
> catch everyone, but would some.

Where are drivers periodically retested? I had to answer ten multiple
choice questions when I moved to a new state, but otherwise no retest
till I get (D.V. ) seriously old.

On Dec 23, 7:38*am, George Leppla > wrote:
> On 12/23/2012 7:51 AM, Janet wrote:
>
> > In article <d3647822-8010-4d54-9e16-71aae4b66994
> > @gg5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>, says...
>
> >> 1. The goal is to keep weirdos from buying guns,
>
> > * *Your problem with that, is that people may be quite normal when they
> > legally acquire guns; *no previous history of mental illness.
>
> > * *What matters, is when previously sensible sane gun owners deteriorate
> > into serious mental illness, drug addiction, alcoholism etc.
>
> > * *Do any US states keep longterm track of legal gun owners to check if
> > they are still fit to own guns ?
>
> I posted this on FB earlier this week:
>
> I bought a pistol a few months ago. Walked into the store, made my
> selection, showed my driver's license and answered a few very
> rudimentary questions where I affirmed that I wasn't on drugs, wasn't
> mentally incapacitated and didn't have a felony record. Handed my credit
> card to the sales person, added a box of ammo to my order and left. The
> entire transaction took less then 10 minutes. I am only exaggerating
> slightly when I say that it is harder to by Pseudophed than it is to buy
> a gun.
>

Instant background check is instant -- color George surprised.
Nowadays, the form 4473 serves to give George notice of what the
background check checks. But, in case that gun is ever used in a
crime, the ATF will trace it to your dealer and then to you.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

On 23/12/2012 10:38 AM, George Leppla wrote:

> I bought a pistol a few months ago. Walked into the store, made my
> selection, showed my driver's license and answered a few very
> rudimentary questions where I affirmed that I wasn't on drugs, wasn't
> mentally incapacitated and didn't have a felony record. Handed my credit
> card to the sales person, added a box of ammo to my order and left. The
> entire transaction took less then 10 minutes. I am only exaggerating
> slightly when I say that it is harder to by Pseudophed than it is to buy
> a gun.

I have bought two in the last two months. Up here you need to take a
course and pass a test to get a licence to buy and own firearms, and a
special one for handguns. The first one was actually for my son. He had
applied for his licence back in August and it still had not come
through, though he knew that they had checked his reference the week
before. When he eventually called to see what the delay was it turned
out to be that he has answered yes to the question about if he had lost
a job recently. He had been laid off from his old job but was working
again and for almost the same money with less stress. He finally got
his licence last week, four months after doing the tests and applying.

Since I belong to a recognized shooting club, I have a transport permit
that allows me to transport my handguns.... unloaded, trigger locked and
in a locked case in the trunk of my car, and ammunition in a separate
locked case... between my house and approved ranges. The club has to
apply for the licence on your behalf.

Since the status of one of my handguns was changed from restricted to
prohibited after I bought it, my licence was grandfathered and allows me
to own and transport prohibited firearms.

Despite having had a transport permit for about 20 years, I still had to
get a temporary transport permit to bring the gun home from the gun
shop, which is at the range for which I have a regular transport. For
that first gun it took more than three weeks.

Apparently, having a permit for prohibited firearms means they subject
you to more scrutiny even when getting a gun that is only restricted.
One might reasonably expect that, having had the permits and licences
for that many years and without any problems I would have demonstrated a
level of trustworthiness that the permit application should have been
rubber stamped


Then my wife offered to buy me a better handgun for target shooting.
After making my selection and paying for it I had to go through the
temporary transport permit process again, but this time it took only a
week and a half.

Having recently jumped through all those hoops, I expected it to take
several weeks so I made sure to get it ordered in good time that I would
be able to pick it up before Christmas, and that worked out because I
brought it home last week and the registration arrived in the mail a few
days ago.

"spamtrap1888" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 23, 8:49 am, "Somebody" > wrote:

> like drivers licenses... people should be periodically retested. Wouldn't
> catch everyone, but would some.

Where are drivers periodically retested?
---

in a perfect world.

On 23/12/2012 11:53 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
>
>>
>> like drivers licenses... people should be periodically retested. Wouldn't
>> catch everyone, but would some.
>
> Where are drivers periodically retested? I had to answer ten multiple
> choice questions when I moved to a new state, but otherwise no retest
> till I get (D.V. ) seriously old.
>


In Ontario senior drivers have to be retested if they are over 80 or if
they are over 70 and have been in an accident. These days they sit in on
a seminar and write a test. For a long time they used to do road tests.
I worked for a short time as a driver examiner and we used to reserve
Wednesday mornings for seniors tests.

I quickly learned to hate Wednesday mornings. One might expect that and
80 year old driver would have 60 plus years of driving experience to
learn from. What actually happens is that they accumulate 60 plus years
of bad driving habits.

I remember one old guy who was telling me how he had driven tanks during
the war and had been a bus driver and a taxi driver in London. I
believed that because most of the time he was driving on the wrong side
of the road, and he ran 5 stops signs. He didn't even slow down. About
10 years after that scary road test I saw his obituary in the newspaper
and my reaction was to think that the roads in that city would be a lot
safer.

On 23/12/2012 12:04 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:

>
> Instant background check is instant -- color George surprised.
> Nowadays, the form 4473 serves to give George notice of what the
> background check checks. But, in case that gun is ever used in a
> crime, the ATF will trace it to your dealer and then to you.
>
> http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
>


One of the reasons gun owners were so upset with that idiotic long gun
registry that he had here for a while was that they would try to hold
the homeowner's responsible for guns that had been stolen from them.

There was one remarkable case that was in the newspaper a few years ago
and the guy turned out to me the cousin of the husband of one of my
nieces. The guy was an accredited gun collector and firearms instructor
and had a significant collection of handguns, rifles and shotguns. He
was out of the country for a while and his guns were all locked up in a
gun safe in his apartment. There was a break in and it would appear
that his place had been targeted because of the guns.

According to the police news release, they estimated that the thieves
spent two days working at that safe before they managed to get it open.
The only charges related to that case that I know of were against the
gun owner. He was charged for unsafe storage.

Safe storage laws here require that firearms be unloaded. Handguns have
to be trigger locked and in a locked case. Rifles can be trigger locked
or locked in a case without any ammunition at hand. It boggles me that
they could determine that it took two days to break into the safe and
charge him for unsafe storage.

On Dec 23, 9:31*am, Dave Smith > wrote:
> On 23/12/2012 12:04 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
>
>
> > Instant background check is instant -- color George surprised.
> > Nowadays, the form 4473 serves to give George notice of what the
> > background check checks. But, in case that gun is ever used in a
> > crime, the ATF will trace it to your dealer and then to you.
>
> >http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
>
> One of the reasons gun owners were so upset with that idiotic long gun
> registry that he had here for a while was that they would try to hold
> the homeowner's responsible for guns that had been stolen from them.
>
> There was one remarkable case that was in the newspaper a few years ago
> and the guy turned out to me the cousin of the husband of one of my
> nieces. The guy was an accredited gun collector and firearms instructor
> and had a significant collection of handguns, rifles and shotguns. *He
> was out of the country for a while and his guns were all locked up in a
> gun safe in his apartment. * *There was a break in and it would appear
> that his place had been targeted because of the guns.
>
> According to the police news release, they estimated that the thieves
> spent two days working at that safe before they managed to get it open.
> The only charges related to that case that I know of were against the
> gun owner. He was charged for unsafe storage.
>
> Safe storage laws here require that *firearms be unloaded. Handguns have
> to be trigger locked and in a locked case. Rifles can be trigger locked
> or locked in a case without any ammunition at hand. * It boggles me that
> they could determine that it took two days to break into the safe and
> charge him for unsafe storage.

I still have a hard time believing Canada diverged so far from the US
since the 1960s. It wasn't a nanny state at all back then. I remember
we went to Ontario for Fourth of July because there were few
restrictions on setting off your own fireworks.

On 12/23/2012 12:42 PM, Janet wrote:

> In the UK, any Dr who suspects a patient has become medically unsafe to
> drive (for any reason) has an obligation to inform the licencing
> authority (DVLA).

It's the same where I live.

Of course, they were oblivious to the fact the when you revoke
an Alz suffers license, they don't remember it the next day.

nancy

"Nancy Young" <replyto@inemail> wrote in message
...

> Of course, they were oblivious to the fact the when you revoke
> an Alz suffers license, they don't remember it the next day.
>
> nancy


lol

I remember riding my bike near a park here and having to stop because some
older lady was backing out of a driveway. At about, 1.5 mph. The look on
her grandkids as she drove off--- I'll never forget. (basically: "grandma
driving a car really, really scares me" )

On 23/12/2012 12:42 PM, Janet wrote:
>
>> Where are drivers periodically retested?
>
> In the UK, any Dr who suspects a patient has become medically unsafe to
> drive (for any reason) has an obligation to inform the licencing
> authority (DVLA).
>
> http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/aag.aspx
>
> The DVLA can revoke licenses, and/ or require medical examination and
> resitting the driving test.
>
>


Doctors are supposed to notify about drivers licences here. My mother's
cardiologist had may mother's licence suspended for medical reasons when
he found out that the other doctors had not already had it suspended. I
have known several people who contacted their parent's doctors and
demanded that they have the parent's licence pulled and threatened that
they would sue if the parent ended up in accident. A lot of doctors are
reluctant to do so.

After my heart surgery they bluffed me. They told me that I could not
drive for two months. I was not officially suspended.

On 23/12/2012 12:38 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:

>> Safe storage laws here require that firearms be unloaded. Handguns have
>> to be trigger locked and in a locked case. Rifles can be trigger locked
>> or locked in a case without any ammunition at hand. It boggles me that
>> they could determine that it took two days to break into the safe and
>> charge him for unsafe storage.
>
> I still have a hard time believing Canada diverged so far from the US
> since the 1960s. It wasn't a nanny state at all back then. I remember
> we went to Ontario for Fourth of July because there were few
> restrictions on setting off your own fireworks.

Canada has had very strict handgun regulations since the 1930s. It is
very rare for a person to be able to get a permit to carry a concealed
handgun, and there are a few people working in bear invested areas that
are allowed open carry.

Most of us like it that way. It makes us all safer. The US homicide rate
is much higher than ours and when you look at the breakdown of homicides
by weapon.... all those extra murders are with handguns.

as for fireworks... they now restrict the times when they can be set off
to certain holidays. Firecrackers are no longer allowed. I confess to
being one of the generation who got them banned. By gawd we had fun
with those things. A piece of pipe, a handful of allies or ball bearings
and a couple packages of cannon fire crackers..... artillery. ;-)