On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:38:01 +1100, John J > wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:07:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
> >>
> >They're few and far between. Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
> >shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>
> You must all have adapted to supermarket quality. Convenience over
> quality.

Those items aren't anything I'd put high on any quality list, ever.
Bleed money if you want. I watch my pennies and the dollars take care
of themselves.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:21:09 -0000, Janet > wrote:

> I suspect your lack of butchers, is a cultural difference. The USA has
> had very much longer to practise "domestic labour saving conveniences"
> to the point where ordinary people have been deskilled in their own
> domestic life. There are signs of that here but we started later and are
> way behind; and having the advantage of seeing where it took you maybe
> we won't follow :-)

Crossing my fingers for you and the citizens of your country. I can
still remember the days when the grocery store butcher would bring out
a primary section of the animal for us to look at and tell him how
much we wanted.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:49:49 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> Then again the butcher at the grocery store will also do that. You've
> only to ask.

That varies by store. Doing that at one store I frequently shop in is
a firing offense: on the spot firing and in leave immediately. A new
grocery store I went to last weekend offered to grind something for me
and I didn't even have to ask. Unfortunately, that one is too far
away for me to make it a regular stop.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 06:24:27 -0800 (PST), Helpful person
> wrote:

> On Jan 21, 6:45*pm, "Farm1" > wrote:
> >
> > Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>
> I'm lucky having some wonderful food purveyors locally, all in a
> fairly small town. There's very little I can't get. These include
> some of the best places in the country including the following:
>
> Butcher
> Fishmonger
> Deli (bread, cheese, salami, oils, vinegars etc.)
> Smoked fish and meat
>
> Ann Arbor, MI
> http://www.richardfisher.com

I'm not surprised. Ann Arbor is a college town, similar to Austin.
Google has a satellite there, so it's not as backwoods as you'd like
us to believe.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:09:22 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> If you watch television you'll see all the ads for "buffalo wings" and
> "hot wings" at the chain restaurants. Chicken wings used to be
> considered scraps. Go figure.

My mother was a pioneer, because the wings were her favorite part of
the bird. Why? I dunno. It was just roasted or fried, no special
dips.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:15:48 AM UTC-6, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:09:22 -0500, jmcquown >
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If you watch television you'll see all the ads for "buffalo wings" and
>
> > "hot wings" at the chain restaurants. Chicken wings used to be
>
> > considered scraps. Go figure.
>
>
>
> My mother was a pioneer, because the wings were her favorite part of
>
> the bird. Why? I dunno. It was just roasted or fried, no special
>
> dips.
>
They've been a favorite of mine for years too, but mostly the tips and the middle section. Years ago, I used to go to this happy hour that had free chicken wings, and $1.25 glasses of Michelob. I'd drink about 5-7 beers, and eat lots of wings. Most other folks preferred the drummies, so there were always plenty of the middle sections. They also had cheese (I'm pretty sure Monterrey Jack) and crackers, and sometimes mini meatballs in BBQ sauce.. $10-$12 with a good tip, and I'd leave full and nicely buzzed. $10 then would be like $20 now, but I often didn't eat anything from one happy hour to the next day's happy hour.

--Bryan

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:28:18 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:15:48 AM UTC-6, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:09:22 -0500, jmcquown >
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > If you watch television you'll see all the ads for "buffalo wings" and
> >
> > > "hot wings" at the chain restaurants. Chicken wings used to be
> >
> > > considered scraps. Go figure.
> >
> >
> >
> > My mother was a pioneer, because the wings were her favorite part of
> >
> > the bird. Why? I dunno. It was just roasted or fried, no special
> >
> > dips.
> >
> They've been a favorite of mine for years too, but mostly the tips and the middle section. Years ago, I used to go to this happy hour that had free chicken wings, and $1.25 glasses of Michelob. I'd drink about 5-7 beers, and eat lots of wings. Most other folks preferred the drummies, so there were always plenty of the middle sections. They also had cheese (I'm pretty sure Monterrey Jack) and crackers, and sometimes mini meatballs in BBQ sauce. $10-$12 with a good tip, and I'd leave full and nicely buzzed. $10 then would be like $20 now, but I often didn't eat anything from one happy hour to the next day's happy hour.
>
That reminds me of when we were first married and living in Palo Alto.
There was a restaurant/bar that had the BEST happy hour. We went for
their strips of rare steak, but they had other really good stuff to
choose from. Like you, we made it dinner. That was back in the days
when going to McDonald's was a big deal because there weren't very
many around, they had signs saying how many hamburgers sold and it
hadn't reached a million yet. The first one to open in the area was
really cute. They put candles on every table as soon as it got dark
and it was cute to see the candles as we drove by. Never did eat
there after dark, but we probably should have just to say we'd done
it.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 22/01/2013 10:09 AM, jmcquown wrote:

>>
> If you watch television you'll see all the ads for "buffalo wings" and
> "hot wings" at the chain restaurants. Chicken wings used to be
> considered scraps. Go figure.
>

My wife said that when she first moved down this way and was living on
her own she used to buy big bags of chicken wings for peanuts. She
didn't have much money and they were the cheapest thing she could find
to eat.

On 1/22/2013 12:11 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:49:49 -0500, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> Then again the butcher at the grocery store will also do that. You've
>> only to ask.
>
> That varies by store. Doing that at one store I frequently shop in is
> a firing offense: on the spot firing and in leave immediately. A new
> grocery store I went to last weekend offered to grind something for me
> and I didn't even have to ask. Unfortunately, that one is too far
> away for me to make it a regular stop.
>
Yeah, I mentioned that when an Albertson's bought out a local store in
Memphis. The guy said he wasn't allowed to grind anything other than
beef, he could get fired for it.

Jill

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:27:10 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 1/22/2013 12:11 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:49:49 -0500, jmcquown >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Then again the butcher at the grocery store will also do that. You've
> >> only to ask.
> >
> > That varies by store. Doing that at one store I frequently shop in is
> > a firing offense: on the spot firing and in leave immediately. A new
> > grocery store I went to last weekend offered to grind something for me
> > and I didn't even have to ask. Unfortunately, that one is too far
> > away for me to make it a regular stop.
> >
> Yeah, I mentioned that when an Albertson's bought out a local store in
> Memphis. The guy said he wasn't allowed to grind anything other than
> beef, he could get fired for it.
>
If they are allowed to grind, I guess they have to follow company
guidelines. The butchers at my regular grocery store aren't allowed
to custom grind at all, the new one I went to last weekend would grind
if the grinder had been cleaned and yours would only grind one type of
meat.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
news
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:56:55 +1100, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:08:43 -0500, jmcquown >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 1/21/2013 10:15 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:09:44 -0500, jmcquown >
>>>>> wrote:
>>> snip
>>>>
>>>>I'll have to look at them, but I'm sure you're right. Oxtail soup
>>>>requires a nice ratio of meat & fat to the bone. These are already
>>>>disjointed.
>>>>
>>>>> tea cup size tails with lots of meat between the wings of the bones.
>>>>> I've got to ask Cash and Carry if they can get some in for me. A
>>>>> restaurant pack is over $50, but it is worth it. It is a little
>>>>> tricky to break the pack apart into family-size amounts, but I can
>>>>> manage with some of my husband's tools ;o)
>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>
>>>>Power tools? Even with my freezer and love of soup I don't need a huge
>>>>package of oxtails. I doubt I could find them in restaurant size
>>>>packages. Still, I do love oxtail soup/stew. Very hearty.
>>>>
>>>>Jill
>>> No power tools, just a short pry bar and maybe a hammer or something.
>>> Because the tails are round, there are spaces where you can get
>>> between to pry the frozen tails apart in serviceable chunks.
>>
>>Just use secateurs or branch loppers. Both would do the job easier than a
>>hammer and a pry bar.
>>
> not really. This is a frozen box of 3+-inch thick by 3+ inch across
> -- all frozen together in a flat plane. The box is 15 pounds. I'm
> not trying to cut the tails into pieces. I'm trying to separate
> chunks of pieces into meal-size portions without thawing the whole
> pack. There is nothing about this job that branch loppers would
> handle.

:-)) You haven't seen my branch loppers. I bought myself the Mother of all
branch loppers a few years back at huge expense and each time I use them, I
am still as pleased as Punch with their performance. I'll come roudn soem
time and we'll have a party cutting up the contents of your freezer. Your
supply the thermal gloves. OK?

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>
> They're few and far between.

How irritating.

Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
> shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.

I wasn't suggesting that they should be.

I do find it interesting though that the first response of USians here seems
to be is to look for meat at a supermarket. I always prefer to use the
butcher and jsut use supermarkets for convenience.

TMWOT, the butcher specialises in meat and it seems to me that the whole
premise of supermarket existence is convenience.

"John J" > wrote in message
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:07:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
>>On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>>
>>They're few and far between. Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
>>shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>
> You must all have adapted to supermarket quality. Convenience over
> quality.

LOL. Supermarket's may boast in their advertising that they have 'butchers'
and will do any cut asked for, but as a meat producer, I know what beasts
they buy.

All the big chains are just cheap and nasty. We have the same chains as the
rest of the world, but in some cases the names vary between nations. I'll
always prefer my local butcher and even though he charges an arm and a leg,
I know the quality is just superb.

"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:38:01 +1100, John J > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:07:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>>>
>>>They're few and far between. Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
>>>shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>>
>>You must all have adapted to supermarket quality. Convenience over
>>quality.
>
> Not *all* but enough to make a butcher-shop a losing proposition in
> most communities.
>
> There are also so many regulations [at least in my state, NY], that
> actual butchering has become one business-- and carving up and selling
> retail is another.

Exactly the same thing applies here in Oz Jim. Abattoirs do the
slaughtering and the beast is then sent (or returned in our local case) to
the butcher who hangs the meat and then breaks it down.

I really enjoy seeing a side of beef being brought out of the big refrig on
the rolling bars and then watching the butcher wrestle it off the hooks to
get it through the saw.

Until I wrote that para, I hadn't realised how much a part of my whole life
that sight has always been.

"Helpful person" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 21, 6:45 pm, "Farm1" > wrote:
>
> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?

I'm lucky having some wonderful food purveyors locally, all in a
fairly small town. There's very little I can't get. These include
some of the best places in the country including the following:

Butcher
Fishmonger
Deli (bread, cheese, salami, oils, vinegars etc.)
Smoked fish and meat

Ann Arbor, MI
http://www.richardfisher.com
______________________________
From reading another MI poster over a number of years, it seems that your
State has lots of traditional services still available.

I suspect with the convergence of both peak oil and climate change, such
services will have to start appearing in more locailities all over again in
the not too distant future.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>
> Years ago I was able to get lamb only at one butcher shop in the city
> where we lived. I never saw shanks there. That place is gone now. My
> regular butcher does not carry lamb.Mt back-up butcher does not carry
> lamb. The only place I can get lamb is at the larger grocery stores, and
> they only carry shanks occasionally.

I find that just astonishing. Wasn't globablisation supposed to be all
about being able to get whatever we wanted, whereever we wanted? I think we
consumers have been sold yet another pup.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:38:01 +1100, John J > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:07:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>> >>
>> >They're few and far between. Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
>> >shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>>
>> You must all have adapted to supermarket quality. Convenience over
>> quality.
>
> Those items aren't anything I'd put high on any quality list, ever.
> Bleed money if you want. I watch my pennies and the dollars take care
> of themselves.

I too am trying to learn to watch my pennies. It's a wonderful form of
discipline and a great learning experience, but the one thing I will never
stint on is meat. If I am going to buy it, I buy quality and cheap meat is
never even cheap, it's just nasty and then needs to be disguised.

If I really needed to penny pinch, I'd eat vegetarian all the time.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:27:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
>news
>> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:56:55 +1100, "Farm1" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:08:43 -0500, jmcquown >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 1/21/2013 10:15 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:09:44 -0500, jmcquown >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> snip
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll have to look at them, but I'm sure you're right. Oxtail soup
>>>>>requires a nice ratio of meat & fat to the bone. These are already
>>>>>disjointed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> tea cup size tails with lots of meat between the wings of the bones.
>>>>>> I've got to ask Cash and Carry if they can get some in for me. A
>>>>>> restaurant pack is over $50, but it is worth it. It is a little
>>>>>> tricky to break the pack apart into family-size amounts, but I can
>>>>>> manage with some of my husband's tools ;o)
>>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>>
>>>>>Power tools? Even with my freezer and love of soup I don't need a huge
>>>>>package of oxtails. I doubt I could find them in restaurant size
>>>>>packages. Still, I do love oxtail soup/stew. Very hearty.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jill
>>>> No power tools, just a short pry bar and maybe a hammer or something.
>>>> Because the tails are round, there are spaces where you can get
>>>> between to pry the frozen tails apart in serviceable chunks.
>>>
>>>Just use secateurs or branch loppers. Both would do the job easier than a
>>>hammer and a pry bar.
>>>
>> not really. This is a frozen box of 3+-inch thick by 3+ inch across
>> -- all frozen together in a flat plane. The box is 15 pounds. I'm
>> not trying to cut the tails into pieces. I'm trying to separate
>> chunks of pieces into meal-size portions without thawing the whole
>> pack. There is nothing about this job that branch loppers would
>> handle.
>
>:-)) You haven't seen my branch loppers. I bought myself the Mother of all
>branch loppers a few years back at huge expense and each time I use them, I
>am still as pleased as Punch with their performance. I'll come roudn soem
>time and we'll have a party cutting up the contents of your freezer. Your
>supply the thermal gloves. OK?
>
I probably have better -- we are professional. You just don't grasp
what I want done.
Janet US

"Janet" > wrote in message

> I suspect your lack of butchers, is a cultural difference. The USA has
> had very much longer to practise "domestic labour saving conveniences"
> to the point where ordinary people have been deskilled in their own
> domestic life. There are signs of that here but we started later and are
> way behind; and having the advantage of seeing where it took you maybe
> we won't follow :-)

Have you done any reading on Transition Town initiatives? More and more
that thinking is starting to figure here in publications and local council
thinking and planning. Given that Oz and the lower 48 of the US have
geographic similarities, the finite resources idea seems to be gradually
permeating.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 06:24:27 -0800 (PST), Helpful person
> > wrote:
>
>> On Jan 21, 6:45 pm, "Farm1" > wrote:
>> >
>> > Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>
>> I'm lucky having some wonderful food purveyors locally, all in a
>> fairly small town. There's very little I can't get. These include
>> some of the best places in the country including the following:
>>
>> Butcher
>> Fishmonger
>> Deli (bread, cheese, salami, oils, vinegars etc.)
>> Smoked fish and meat
>>
>> Ann Arbor, MI
>> http://www.richardfisher.com
>
> I'm not surprised. Ann Arbor is a college town, similar to Austin.
> Google has a satellite there, so it's not as backwoods as you'd like
> us to believe.

Backwoods?

"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> Farm1 wrote:
>> I tried a new recipe for lamb shanks the other day and it was worth
>> repeating.
>>
>> 3 or 4 lamb shanks
>> 2 rashers bacon chopped
>> 2 Level Tblspns flour
>> 1 and a half C water
>> 1 Tblspn Worcestershire sauce
>> 1 level tspn dry mustard pdr
>> 1 tin tomato puree ( I substituted a 400g tin of tom pieces and a couple
>> of Tblspns of Tom paste)
>> 1 level Tblspn brown sugar
>> half a C white vinegar
>> 1 sliced onion
>> 1 level tspn salt
>> Fry chopped bacon and shanks rolled in flour. Drain and place in
>> casserole. Combine puree, water, sauce, vinegar, mustard, sliced onion
>> and remaining flour and pour over shanks. Cover and cook in moderate
>> oven until tender, approx 2 hours.
>>
>> The remaining 'sauce' was thinned down with water and eaten as a 'soup'
>> the next day.
>>
>>
>
> Yum. Now remind me. Are OZ Tbsps FOUR teaspoons?

In that recipe whatever you decide to use as your Tablespoon of choice won't
matter a hill of beans.

"Bigbazza" > wrote in message
> "Farm1" wrote in message ...
>
> I tried a new recipe for lamb shanks the other day and it was worth
> repeating.
>
> 3 or 4 lamb shanks
> 2 rashers bacon chopped
> 2 Level Tblspns flour
> 1 and a half C water
> 1 Tblspn Worcestershire sauce
> 1 level tspn dry mustard pdr
> 1 tin tomato puree ( I substituted a 400g tin of tom pieces and a couple
> of
> Tblspns of Tom paste)
> 1 level Tblspn brown sugar
> half a C white vinegar
> 1 sliced onion
> 1 level tspn salt
> Fry chopped bacon and shanks rolled in flour. Drain and place in
> casserole.
> Combine puree, water, sauce, vinegar, mustard, sliced onion and remaining
> flour and pour over shanks. Cover and cook in moderate oven until tender,
> approx 2 hours.
>
> The remaining 'sauce' was thinned down with water and eaten as a 'soup'
> the
> next day.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mmmm...That sounds nice, Fran.....I might give it a go........

It was very tasty Bazz, but if you want to do a tasty but even easier shank
recipe just use a third of a cup of each of maple syrup, beef stock and soy
sauce. Cook in a crock pot and then serve the shanks over boiled rice with
the liquid and you've got a minimla effort but tasty meal.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:38:30 +1100, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>"sf" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>>
>> They're few and far between.
>
>How irritating.
>
>Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
>> shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>
>I wasn't suggesting that they should be.
>
>I do find it interesting though that the first response of USians here seems
>to be is to look for meat at a supermarket. I always prefer to use the
>butcher and jsut use supermarkets for convenience.
>
>TMWOT, the butcher specialises in meat and it seems to me that the whole
>premise of supermarket existence is convenience.
>

That it is-- but it is convenient to go down the produce aisle, turn
left past the bakery and peruse 100 feet of coolers-- and if you don't
see what you want, ask one of the half dozen fellows behind that
counter to cut you what you want.

The only downside is, things are ordered by a computer that is
programmed to quit buying things that don't sell-- even if the couple
pounds you *do* sell create a loyal customer. so unpopular items
disappear--- after they price them out of reason. [for instance-
suet-- just raw, chunks of the sinewy stuff-- often starting to turn
because it has been on the shelf too long- is approaching $2.00 a lb
in my market. I can buy Flank steaks for $2.50-- but lots more people
buy them, so the store can make a minimal profit.]

Jim

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:43:21 +1100, "Farm1" >
wrote:

>"John J" > wrote in message
>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:07:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
>>>On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>>>
>>>They're few and far between. Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
>>>shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>>
>> You must all have adapted to supermarket quality. Convenience over
>> quality.
>
>LOL. Supermarket's may boast in their advertising that they have 'butchers'
>and will do any cut asked for, but as a meat producer, I know what beasts
>they buy.

Few supermarkets [or even meat markets] around here buy 'beasts'
anymore. They get something smaller than quarters, cryovacced and
often trimmed more than I would want the finished product.

Jim

Bigbazza wrote:
>
>
> "Jean B." wrote in message ...
>
> Farm1 wrote:
>> I tried a new recipe for lamb shanks the other day and it was worth
>> repeating.
>>
>> 3 or 4 lamb shanks
>> 2 rashers bacon chopped
>> 2 Level Tblspns flour
>> 1 and a half C water
>> 1 Tblspn Worcestershire sauce
>> 1 level tspn dry mustard pdr
>> 1 tin tomato puree ( I substituted a 400g tin of tom pieces and a
>> couple of Tblspns of Tom paste)
>> 1 level Tblspn brown sugar
>> half a C white vinegar
>> 1 sliced onion
>> 1 level tspn salt
>> Fry chopped bacon and shanks rolled in flour. Drain and place in
>> casserole. Combine puree, water, sauce, vinegar, mustard, sliced onion
>> and remaining flour and pour over shanks. Cover and cook in moderate
>> oven until tender, approx 2 hours.
>>
>> The remaining 'sauce' was thinned down with water and eaten as a
>> 'soup' the next day.
>>
>>
>
> Yum. Now remind me. Are OZ Tbsps FOUR teaspoons?
>
>
>
>
> I'll answer this one, Jean....The Australian Tablespoon is 20 Mils, and
> is equal to 4 Tsp. (5 Mils each).....
>
> Barry Oz

Thanks. I have decided that every cookbook that uses different
measures or has something else in it that must be remembered
should have a sheet of paper in the front that notes these things.
It will take quite a long time to go back and read all relevant
material in every cookbook that I have, but eventually it will
make life simpler.

--

Farm1 wrote:
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>>
>> They're few and far between.
>
> How irritating.
>
> Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
>> shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>
> I wasn't suggesting that they should be.
>
> I do find it interesting though that the first response of USians here seems
> to be is to look for meat at a supermarket. I always prefer to use the
> butcher and jsut use supermarkets for convenience.
>
> TMWOT, the butcher specialises in meat and it seems to me that the whole
> premise of supermarket existence is convenience.
>
>
Speaking of my area, there is a butcher shop that is about a
half-hour drive away. Oh yes, another one up in the other
direction, or is it gone? And, better, there are small farms that
raise critters and then sell the meat.

--

On 1/22/2013 9:24 PM, Jean B. wrote:

> Thanks. I have decided that every cookbook that uses different measures
> or has something else in it that must be remembered should have a sheet
> of paper in the front that notes these things. It will take quite a
> long time to go back and read all relevant material in every cookbook
> that I have, but eventually it will make life simpler.
>
It should be attached at the inner edge (so it doesn't get misplaced)
and big enough to fold out, so that it can be read in conjunction with
the recipe.

Farm1 wrote:
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> Years ago I was able to get lamb only at one butcher shop in the city
>> where we lived. I never saw shanks there. That place is gone now. My
>> regular butcher does not carry lamb.Mt back-up butcher does not carry
>> lamb. The only place I can get lamb is at the larger grocery stores, and
>> they only carry shanks occasionally.
>
> I find that just astonishing. Wasn't globablisation supposed to be all
> about being able to get whatever we wanted, whereever we wanted? I think we
> consumers have been sold yet another pup.
>
>
Never! I should try to find some lamb-y US lamb. Oh, I am
reminded, that since most nights I can cook what I like without
regard to anyone else's likes and dislikes, I should cook goat!
It is the right weather for some stewed thing. AND one can deal
with the consequences of eating goat in the privacy of one's own home.

Farm1 wrote:
> "Jean B." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Farm1 wrote:
>>> I tried a new recipe for lamb shanks the other day and it was worth
>>> repeating.
>>>
>>> 3 or 4 lamb shanks
>>> 2 rashers bacon chopped
>>> 2 Level Tblspns flour
>>> 1 and a half C water
>>> 1 Tblspn Worcestershire sauce
>>> 1 level tspn dry mustard pdr
>>> 1 tin tomato puree ( I substituted a 400g tin of tom pieces and a couple
>>> of Tblspns of Tom paste)
>>> 1 level Tblspn brown sugar
>>> half a C white vinegar
>>> 1 sliced onion
>>> 1 level tspn salt
>>> Fry chopped bacon and shanks rolled in flour. Drain and place in
>>> casserole. Combine puree, water, sauce, vinegar, mustard, sliced onion
>>> and remaining flour and pour over shanks. Cover and cook in moderate
>>> oven until tender, approx 2 hours.
>>>
>>> The remaining 'sauce' was thinned down with water and eaten as a 'soup'
>>> the next day.
>>>
>>>
>> Yum. Now remind me. Are OZ Tbsps FOUR teaspoons?
>
> In that recipe whatever you decide to use as your Tablespoon of choice won't
> matter a hill of beans.
>
>
True. Unlike baking.

On 22/01/2013 7:55 PM, Farm1 wrote:
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>
>> Years ago I was able to get lamb only at one butcher shop in the city
>> where we lived. I never saw shanks there. That place is gone now. My
>> regular butcher does not carry lamb.Mt back-up butcher does not carry
>> lamb. The only place I can get lamb is at the larger grocery stores, and
>> they only carry shanks occasionally.
>
> I find that just astonishing. Wasn't globablisation supposed to be all
> about being able to get whatever we wanted, whereever we wanted? I think we
> consumers have been sold yet another pup.
>
>


I thought that it was about opening up markets by removing trade
barriers, not about making everything imaginable readily available to
every individual consumer. Lamb just isn't very popular around here.
Most people around here like beef, chicken and pork. In most cases you
would feel comfortable serving any of those to family and guests. Lamb
OTOH, seems to be a matter of love or hate it. In my family, my mother,
two brothers and I love(d) it. My father hated it and another brother
won't touch it. We know a number of couples where one loves it and the
other hates it. There are not many couples that we know both like it.

Leg of lamb is a tradition on my wife's family. After my father died we
would have my mother, my sister in law and my wife's aunt and uncle for
Easter dinner because they all loved lamb.

As mentioned a before, there was a time not that long ago where there
was only one shop where we could get lamb. Now it is becoming more
common to find it in the larger grocery stores, but there is nowhere
near the selection of lamb cuts than beef or pork. Quite seriously,
sometimes the choice of fresh lamb is limited to loin or shoulder chops.
The frozen (NZ) lamb is usually legs and chops. Once in a while they
have shanks, invariably in packages of three. The price varies a lot.
When they are relatively cheap I stock up on them.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:01:18 +1100, "Farm1" >
wrote:

> If I really needed to penny pinch, I'd eat vegetarian all the time.
>

I've been thinking about how I cook and I know I've been using less
and less beef over the years due to hubby's Dr's orders to avoid as
much saturated fat as possible and because too much red meat sets him
up for gout

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:07:29 +1100, "Farm1" >
wrote:

> "Janet" > wrote in message
>
> > I suspect your lack of butchers, is a cultural difference. The USA has
> > had very much longer to practise "domestic labour saving conveniences"
> > to the point where ordinary people have been deskilled in their own
> > domestic life. There are signs of that here but we started later and are
> > way behind; and having the advantage of seeing where it took you maybe
> > we won't follow :-)
>
> Have you done any reading on Transition Town initiatives? More and more
> that thinking is starting to figure here in publications and local council
> thinking and planning. Given that Oz and the lower 48 of the US have
> geographic similarities, the finite resources idea seems to be gradually
> permeating.
>
Agree.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:10:18 +1100, "Farm1" >
wrote:

> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 06:24:27 -0800 (PST), Helpful person
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On Jan 21, 6:45 pm, "Farm1" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
> >>
> >> I'm lucky having some wonderful food purveyors locally, all in a
> >> fairly small town. There's very little I can't get. These include
> >> some of the best places in the country including the following:
> >>
> >> Butcher
> >> Fishmonger
> >> Deli (bread, cheese, salami, oils, vinegars etc.)
> >> Smoked fish and meat
> >>
> >> Ann Arbor, MI
> >> http://www.richardfisher.com
> >
> > I'm not surprised. Ann Arbor is a college town, similar to Austin.
> > Google has a satellite there, so it's not as backwoods as you'd like
> > us to believe.
>
> Backwoods?
>
The modern equivalent would be the Alaskan wilderness, but we had a
lot more of it around in the lower 48 back when the term took hold...
which probably was during the Great Depression (possibly before, but
there's the fine line between contemporary wilderness and old
fashioned unexplored territory).

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:27:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
>>news
>>> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:56:55 +1100, "Farm1" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:08:43 -0500, jmcquown >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 1/21/2013 10:15 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:09:44 -0500, jmcquown >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'll have to look at them, but I'm sure you're right. Oxtail soup
>>>>>>requires a nice ratio of meat & fat to the bone. These are already
>>>>>>disjointed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tea cup size tails with lots of meat between the wings of the bones.
>>>>>>> I've got to ask Cash and Carry if they can get some in for me. A
>>>>>>> restaurant pack is over $50, but it is worth it. It is a little
>>>>>>> tricky to break the pack apart into family-size amounts, but I can
>>>>>>> manage with some of my husband's tools ;o)
>>>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Power tools? Even with my freezer and love of soup I don't need a
>>>>>>huge
>>>>>>package of oxtails. I doubt I could find them in restaurant size
>>>>>>packages. Still, I do love oxtail soup/stew. Very hearty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jill
>>>>> No power tools, just a short pry bar and maybe a hammer or something.
>>>>> Because the tails are round, there are spaces where you can get
>>>>> between to pry the frozen tails apart in serviceable chunks.
>>>>
>>>>Just use secateurs or branch loppers. Both would do the job easier than
>>>>a
>>>>hammer and a pry bar.
>>>>
>>> not really. This is a frozen box of 3+-inch thick by 3+ inch across
>>> -- all frozen together in a flat plane. The box is 15 pounds. I'm
>>> not trying to cut the tails into pieces. I'm trying to separate
>>> chunks of pieces into meal-size portions without thawing the whole
>>> pack. There is nothing about this job that branch loppers would
>>> handle.
>>
>>:-)) You haven't seen my branch loppers. I bought myself the Mother of
>>all
>>branch loppers a few years back at huge expense and each time I use them,
>>I
>>am still as pleased as Punch with their performance. I'll come roudn soem
>>time and we'll have a party cutting up the contents of your freezer. Your
>>supply the thermal gloves. OK?
>>
> I probably have better -- we are professional. You just don't grasp
> what I want done.

OK, I withdraw my offer.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:55:04 +1100, "Farm1" >
wrote:

> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> >
> > Years ago I was able to get lamb only at one butcher shop in the city
> > where we lived. I never saw shanks there. That place is gone now. My
> > regular butcher does not carry lamb.Mt back-up butcher does not carry
> > lamb. The only place I can get lamb is at the larger grocery stores, and
> > they only carry shanks occasionally.
>
> I find that just astonishing. Wasn't globablisation supposed to be all
> about being able to get whatever we wanted, whereever we wanted? I think we
> consumers have been sold yet another pup.
>
Say "Hello" to the real world of global economics: yet another scheme
that enriched those at the top and didn't benefit consumers.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:43:21 +1100, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>>"John J" > wrote in message
>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:07:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>>>>
>>>>They're few and far between. Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
>>>>shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>>>
>>> You must all have adapted to supermarket quality. Convenience over
>>> quality.
>>
>>LOL. Supermarket's may boast in their advertising that they have
>>'butchers'
>>and will do any cut asked for, but as a meat producer, I know what beasts
>>they buy.
>>
>>All the big chains are just cheap and nasty. We have the same chains as
>>the
>>rest of the world, but in some cases the names vary between nations. I'll
>>always prefer my local butcher and even though he charges an arm and a
>>leg,
>>I know the quality is just superb.
>>
> I go to a major stupidmarket

:-)) I've not seen that term before. It fits some of the places I've
shopped over the years.

here in eastern Canada and if I want
> something tailor-made, like the rib roast not taken off the bone and
> without the fat being stripped off it, so long as I give the butcher a
> weeks warning, he will make sure I get it that way.
>
> I wanted pork belly left on the bone and with the crackling and that
> he could not promise, so I went all the way down town to a butcher who
> supplies 'local' meat and was able to have my wicked way there. Both
> places prices were not out of line.

I wonder whatever happened to the old maxim of "the customer is always right
and when theyr'e not, see the previous rule".

"John J" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:01:18 +1100, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>>"sf" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:38:01 +1100, John J > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:07:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
>>>> >wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>>> >>
>>>> >They're few and far between. Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
>>>> >shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>>>>
>>>> You must all have adapted to supermarket quality. Convenience over
>>>> quality.
>>>
>>> Those items aren't anything I'd put high on any quality list, ever.
>>> Bleed money if you want. I watch my pennies and the dollars take care
>>> of themselves.
>>
>>I too am trying to learn to watch my pennies. It's a wonderful form of
>>discipline and a great learning experience, but the one thing I will never
>>stint on is meat. If I am going to buy it, I buy quality and cheap meat
>>is
>>never even cheap, it's just nasty and then needs to be disguised.
>
> And there's also the option of buying cheaper cuts of quality meat.
> They can taste just as good.

Yep. Or buying smaller portions of quality meat (which we probably all
should be doing anyway for health reasons).

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:38:30 +1100, "Farm1" >
wrote:

> I do find it interesting though that the first response of USians here seems
> to be is to look for meat at a supermarket. I always prefer to use the
> butcher and jsut use supermarkets for convenience.
>
> TMWOT, the butcher specialises in meat and it seems to me that the whole
> premise of supermarket existence is convenience.
>
Stand alone butcher shops (they don't slaughter, they just break down
primary pieces) are not common here. I know of 3. Two are heart
stoppingly expensive and the other is just expensive. Most people
can't afford to shop that way for everyday food.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:43:21 +1100, "Farm1" >
> wrote:
>
>>"John J" > wrote in message
>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:07:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:45:52 +1100, "Farm1" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Doens't the US have any real butcher's shops?
>>>>>
>>>>They're few and far between. Something like lamb shanks and oxtails
>>>>shouldn't be a butcher shop exclusive.
>>>
>>> You must all have adapted to supermarket quality. Convenience over
>>> quality.
>>
>>LOL. Supermarket's may boast in their advertising that they have
>>'butchers'
>>and will do any cut asked for, but as a meat producer, I know what beasts
>>they buy.
>
> Few supermarkets [or even meat markets] around here buy 'beasts'
> anymore.

The 'beasts' I'm talking about is the beast still on the hoof. The chains
buy them then feedlot them for 'x' days and have them slaughtered once they
reach a certain score.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:27:38 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:

> And, better, there are small farms that
> raise critters and then sell the meat.

Their meat is probably processed from kill to package by a real
butcher. My mother used one for her eating lambs and they are NOT
city butchers. Her butcher loved it when she had him package up racks
of lamb for me, because he would French them and include hand made
"frills" in the package. Obviously, he loved what he did and wanted
to do more than he was usually asked to do.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.