Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
installed yesterday:
http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg

http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us

On 3/14/2013 11:06 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
> money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
> installed yesterday:
> http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
> http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg
>
> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us
>

Why would you need to heat hot water.

Don't you mean a "water heater"?

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:25:06 -0500, jay > wrote:

>In article >,
> Brooklyn1 > wrote:
>
>> Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
>> money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
>> installed yesterday:
>> http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
>> http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg
>>
>> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us
>
>Nice clean installation.. and they installed proper flush ports and
>installed a sediment trap on the gas line. Good for you! Rinnai is known
>to be a good product. Works well if centrally located. Mine has to be
>circulated due to location and I don't think it saves that much on the
>bill. I have a Noritz.

I don't know about the Noritz brand, why did you choose it?
My propane company said that they'd only install Rinnai, said it's the
best... they assured me my savings would be better than 40%... I think
more because I was heating hot water with my house heating boiler, now
I can shut that gas guzzler off throughout the entire non-heating
season... I'm also using that vent-less gas heater, with it running my
boiler hardly runs, that little thing is 99% efficient (has no chimney
to waste heat). They always do a first class install job, no
skimping on quality parts. They had three guys working all day, a lot
was plumbing work on my boiler to get rid of the two hot water holding
tanks and all the extraneous plumbing, one was for my water jacketed
wood burning stove, I will never use it. I don't recommend anyone
attempt this as a DIY project.

"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
eb.com...
> On 3/14/2013 11:06 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
>> money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
>> installed yesterday:
>> http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
>> http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg
>>
>> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us
>>
>
> Why would you need to heat hot water.
>

to keep it that way.

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
> money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
> installed yesterday:
> http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
> http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg
>
> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us

That is what we all a combi boiler and we have had one for a few years now.
It was great to get rid of the water tank and I use that space for other
things.

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Mar 14, 12:06*pm, Brooklyn1 > wrote:
> Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
> money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great..

Can you give us a little 'rithmetic on cost vs. projected savings?

On 3/14/2013 2:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
> "Susan" > wrote
>> On 3/14/2013 12:25 PM, jay wrote:
>>> Nice clean installation.. and they installed proper flush ports and
>>> installed a sediment trap on the gas line. Good for you! Rinnai is know
>>> to be a good product. Works well if centrally located. Mine has to be
>>> circulated due to location and I don't think it saves that much on the
>>> bill. I have a Noritz.
>>
>> We decided against it due to the need for extra water heaters upstairs
>> and the lack of savings compared to cost.
>
> Not sure if what he has is the same as ours, but ours has cut costs
> hugely. Our serves the whole house (4 floors) with hot water.

I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi boiler?

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:25:06 -0500, jay > wrote:

> In article >,
> Brooklyn1 > wrote:
>
> > Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
> > money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
> > installed yesterday:
> > http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
> > http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg
> >
> > http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us
>
> Nice clean installation.. and they installed proper flush ports and
> installed a sediment trap on the gas line. Good for you! Rinnai is know
> to be a good product. Works well if centrally located. Mine has to be
> circulated due to location and I don't think it saves that much on the
> bill. I have a Noritz.
>
So these are whole house units? Probably work better in smaller
houses, 1500 sf and under.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/14/2013 2:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "Susan" > wrote
>>> On 3/14/2013 12:25 PM, jay wrote:
>>>> Nice clean installation.. and they installed proper flush ports and
>>>> installed a sediment trap on the gas line. Good for you! Rinnai is
>>>> know
>>>> to be a good product. Works well if centrally located. Mine has to be
>>>> circulated due to location and I don't think it saves that much on the
>>>> bill. I have a Noritz.
>>>
>>> We decided against it due to the need for extra water heaters upstairs
>>> and the lack of savings compared to cost.
>>
>> Not sure if what he has is the same as ours, but ours has cut costs
>> hugely. Our serves the whole house (4 floors) with hot water.
>
> I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
> boiler?

Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:22:51 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

> Not sure if what he has is the same as ours, but ours has cut costs hugely.
> Our serves the whole house (4 floors) with hot water.

Well, that blows my theory right out of the water (so to speak).

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:24:09 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> "S Viemeister" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 3/14/2013 2:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
> >> "Susan" > wrote
> >>> On 3/14/2013 12:25 PM, jay wrote:
> >>>> Nice clean installation.. and they installed proper flush ports and
> >>>> installed a sediment trap on the gas line. Good for you! Rinnai is
> >>>> know
> >>>> to be a good product. Works well if centrally located. Mine has to be
> >>>> circulated due to location and I don't think it saves that much on the
> >>>> bill. I have a Noritz.
> >>>
> >>> We decided against it due to the need for extra water heaters upstairs
> >>> and the lack of savings compared to cost.
> >>
> >> Not sure if what he has is the same as ours, but ours has cut costs
> >> hugely. Our serves the whole house (4 floors) with hot water.
> >
> > I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
> > boiler?
>
> Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?
>
I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
never one that serves as a water heater too.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:01:04 -0500, jay > wrote:

> I have a circulation pump that
> keeps warm water in the lines and also keeps kicking on the heater to
> keep the circ water hot, using fuel. In larger homes you really need a
> number of them.. talking serious money now.

Another thing I haven't heard of (probably because my climate is so
moderate). Does that work with regular hot water tanks too or is it
just a tankless add on feature? Water is expensive here too, but the
sewer charge is what really kills you.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"sf" > wrote in message
news
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:24:09 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "S Viemeister" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On 3/14/2013 2:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>> >> "Susan" > wrote
>> >>> On 3/14/2013 12:25 PM, jay wrote:
>> >>>> Nice clean installation.. and they installed proper flush ports and
>> >>>> installed a sediment trap on the gas line. Good for you! Rinnai is
>> >>>> know
>> >>>> to be a good product. Works well if centrally located. Mine has to
>> >>>> be
>> >>>> circulated due to location and I don't think it saves that much on
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> bill. I have a Noritz.
>> >>>
>> >>> We decided against it due to the need for extra water heaters
>> >>> upstairs
>> >>> and the lack of savings compared to cost.
>> >>
>> >> Not sure if what he has is the same as ours, but ours has cut costs
>> >> hugely. Our serves the whole house (4 floors) with hot water.
>> >
>> > I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
>> > boiler?
>>
>> Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?
>>
> I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
> never one that serves as a water heater too.

I expect Sheila could describe it better in a way that is familiar to you.
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:38:18 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>On 3/14/2013 11:06 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
>> money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
>> installed yesterday:
>> http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
>> http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg
>>
>> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us
>>
>
>Why would you need to heat hot water.
>
>Don't you mean a "water heater"?

Glad we're not discussing baby oil right now.

We've had ours a couple of years now and I like it. Our house is approx. 2,000 sf, two stories. My main complaint is a lack of hot water when the power goes out. Our old tank heater didn't need electricity to give us hot water when the house was freezing cold during a power outage, so we could at least take a nice hot shower before bed. I also dislike having to always wash my hands in cold water, it takes quite a while to get the hot water to the tap. On the other hand, I don't have to wait to take a shower after doing laundry, or running the dishwasher. We also converted our wood burning fireplace to natural gas, that saves a little money too. Electricity bill is less because the fireplace doesn't require electricity, except to start. It uses batteries to start during a power outage, so now we don't freeze when we lose power. So far this winter, the power has stayed on. Last tear we were out for eight days.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:39:38 -0500, jay > wrote:

>In article >,
> Brooklyn1 > wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't know about the Noritz brand, why did you choose it?
>
>Was here first. Don't know what your installers told you but check this
>out... I keep mine set at 115 F degrees. (My dishwasher has a heater)
>The hotter the water the faster the scale builds up, and I was told it
>increases rapidly over 120 F. I really don't know if it is true but I'm
>experimenting. Mine is 6 years old and never been flushed. They tell
>you to pump vinegar through the heater annually. I don't... don't
>wanna. If it makes another 4 years I'll get a Rinnai if it doesn't I'll
>still get a Rinnai. The installation is not that difficult if you are
>plumbed for it already. I'm guessing you spent over 3K.

Mine is set at 115º too, they said that's more than adequate and it
certainly was when I tested it showering this morning, even had to add
a bit of cold. The highest it will go is 120º but they said so far no
one needed it that high... depends on how low the cold water
temperature is when it enters the unit. It does take a little longer
for hot water to come out the tap but maybe only a minute and a half
instead of the one minute previously... but still it gets warm much
quicker than it did before, probably because the unit is now placed
about halfway between bathrooms, the old system was close to the
laundry room. And now it's still winter temperatures here, it's in
the 20s today, so my cold water is pretty cold... I bet things will be
different in summer. I asked about maintenence, I have my own well, I
have a water softener and a particulate filter, they said I may never
need to flush it, but it's no big deal and they will be happy to
oblige... one of the nice things is I buy propane from them so service
is usually free or very minimal, except for special parts. They
charged me $2,400, that was for the unit, all the parts, and all the
labor... and there was a lot of parts and plenty of labor needed after
removing the storage tanks, circulators, electricals and all the
extraneous plumbing. The thing I can tell you is that Rinnai doesn't
warranty the unit unless a qualified installer does the install. It's
too soon to tell but so far I love it.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:06:11 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:

>Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
>money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
>installed yesterday:
>http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
>http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg
>
>http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us

Would be good as a back-up for solar hot water in mid-winter...

On 3/14/2013 3:24 PM, Ophelia wrote:
> "S Viemeister" > wrote
>> On 3/14/2013 2:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>> Not sure if what he has is the same as ours, but ours has cut costs
>>> hugely. Our serves the whole house (4 floors) with hot water.
>>
>> I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
>> boiler?
>
> Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?
>
Not where I am (NY metro area), although my in-laws on Long Island had
an oil-fired system which did both central heating and hot water.
Everyone else I know in the area has separate units. The hot water is
typically provided by a large cylinder in the basement or integral
garage, heated by either gas or electricity (ours is gas). I much prefer
the system we have in Scotland, even with the inconvenience of oil
deliveries (no gas mains within a hundred miles of our house).

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:42:32 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:25:06 -0500, jay > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Brooklyn1 > wrote:
>>
>> > Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
>> > money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
>> > installed yesterday:
>> > http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
>> > http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg
>> >
>> > http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us
>>
>> Nice clean installation.. and they installed proper flush ports and
>> installed a sediment trap on the gas line. Good for you! Rinnai is know
>> to be a good product. Works well if centrally located. Mine has to be
>> circulated due to location and I don't think it saves that much on the
>> bill. I have a Noritz.
>>
>So these are whole house units? Probably work better in smaller
>houses, 1500 sf and under.

That's totally untrue... large hotels are using them now (they save a
lot of money). Naturally the units are available in several sizes,
same as ordinary water heaters... unless you have more than four
showers running all at once you wouldn't need a unit larger than the
one I have. And for large commercial use several units can be used at
once. The unit also needs to be sized based on climate, I live where
it's cold so the water is colder so I need a higher rated unit. But
most of the savings is because of the on-demand feature, it only heats
the water that's needed at the moment, there's no idle large tank of
water to keep hot. I showered a full twenty minutes this morning, the
water was as hot when I started as when I finished. Oh, and
conventional tank type water heaters need service too, of course most
folks neglect them and so they're even less efficient, and they don't
have a very long life.

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/14/2013 3:24 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "S Viemeister" > wrote
>>> On 3/14/2013 2:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>> Not sure if what he has is the same as ours, but ours has cut costs
>>>> hugely. Our serves the whole house (4 floors) with hot water.
>>>
>>> I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
>>> boiler?
>>
>> Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?
>>
> Not where I am (NY metro area), although my in-laws on Long Island had an
> oil-fired system which did both central heating and hot water. Everyone
> else I know in the area has separate units. The hot water is typically
> provided by a large cylinder in the basement or integral garage, heated by
> either gas or electricity (ours is gas). I much prefer the system we have
> in Scotland, even with the inconvenience of oil deliveries (no gas mains
> within a hundred miles of our house).

Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
does both central heating and hot water

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 3/14/2013 12:35 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>
> Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
> does both central heating and hot water
>

My step-mother said that the houses in her town (Gothenburg?) was heated
by water coming in from a hot water factory and distributed by
underground pipes. That was the nuttiest thing that I ever heard. Those
Swedes!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:06:11 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:

>Anyone needs a new hot water heater...

Hey Sheldon!! HOT water does not need heating! What you are talking
about is a water heater!!

DUH!!!

John Kuthe...

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:15:35 -0500, jay > wrote:

> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:01:04 -0500, jay > wrote:
> >
> > > I have a circulation pump that
> > > keeps warm water in the lines and also keeps kicking on the heater to
> > > keep the circ water hot, using fuel. In larger homes you really need a
> > > number of them.. talking serious money now.
> >
> > Another thing I haven't heard of (probably because my climate is so
> > moderate). Does that work with regular hot water tanks too or is it
> > just a tankless add on feature? Water is expensive here too, but the
> > sewer charge is what really kills you.
>
> You can add a circulation pump to a traditional standing water heater
> tank. It's actually a very easy DIY. More difficult plumber job for the
> tankless. The pump is installed under a sink furtherest from the tank.
> You need an electrical source. It has a thermostat and when water in
> the line cools it pulls hot water from the tank and pushes the cooled
> water through the cold side back to the tank. I have had one before and
> it works well.. not this brand though.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/bnrvhdd
>
I looked it up immediately after I posted and found this one
http://www.rewci.com/whhohotwaci.html Looks like a great idea and not
expensive at all. I wonder why they aren't touted more?


--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 08:17:44 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:38:18 -0500, Janet Wilder
> > wrote:
>
> >On 3/14/2013 11:06 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >> Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
> >> money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
> >> installed yesterday:
> >> http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
> >> http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg
> >>
> >> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us
> >>
> >
> >Why would you need to heat hot water.
> >
> >Don't you mean a "water heater"?
>
> Glad we're not discussing baby oil right now.

Okay, that made me laugh.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 3/14/2013 6:35 PM, Ophelia wrote:

> Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
> does both central heating and hot water
>
Ours looks different, but it's an oil-fired, _externally_ mounted unit,
with masses of insulation and a weatherproof casing.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:49:09 -0700, sf > wrote:



>> >
>> > I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
>> > boiler?
>>
>> Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?
>>
>I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
>never one that serves as a water heater too.

Right.
Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
incorrectly.

I've never seen a furnace with domestic hot water, but boilers that
both heat the house and heat the domestic water are very common.
Probably 90% of oil boiler are made that way, at leas until a dozen
years ago when better systems were introduced.

Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:49:09 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>
>
>>>>
>>>> I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
>>>> boiler?
>>>
>>> Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?
>>>
>> I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
>> never one that serves as a water heater too.
>
> Right.
> Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
> incorrectly.
>
> I've never seen a furnace with domestic hot water, but boilers that
> both heat the house and heat the domestic water are very common.
> Probably 90% of oil boiler are made that way, at leas until a dozen
> years ago when better systems were introduced.

I don't like the term boiler unless it's really a boiler for steam heat.
That's the only time it boils. Water heaters are not boilers, although I've
seen that happen when they build up stuff in the bottom.

Greg

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 23:01:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:49:09 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>
>
> >> >
> >> > I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
> >> > boiler?
> >>
> >> Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?
> >>
> >I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
> >never one that serves as a water heater too.
>
> Right.
> Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
> incorrectly.

YES! I know old public buildings and some super old apartment
buildings (and those converted to condos) still operate with a boiler
system - but come on... single family HOUSES? The only "modern"
heating water source I know about is fed by the water heater, not a
boiler (mid-century modern Eichler houses and modern bathrooms with a
floor heating system in the floor). Define the parameters if it's not
a single family house, which is what I think most of the people here
were talking about in generalized terms. I don't know enough about a
whole building boiler systems to know if hot water from a faucet comes
from the same place that provides heat to the buildings or not. What
I do know is that boiler systems are not commonly used in single
family housing here... like Aga stoves, they are out of the ordinary.
>
> I've never seen a furnace with domestic hot water, but boilers that
> both heat the house and heat the domestic water are very common.

Thanks! Maybe that's the case in old buildings public building or old
multi-story buildings with multiple apartments (or condo converts).
My house was built in the '20s and it has never had a boiler system.
It started off with a coal furnace. My grandparents centennial
farmhouse in rural Michigan (built in the early 1800s) didn't have a
boiler system either - it was another coal furnace and they heated
water on top of their wood burning stove.

> Probably 90% of oil boiler are made that way, at leas until a dozen
> years ago when better systems were introduced.

No idea what that would be.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

sf > wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 23:01:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:49:09 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
>>>>> boiler?
>>>>
>>>> Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?
>>>>
>>> I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
>>> never one that serves as a water heater too.
>>
>> Right.
>> Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
>> incorrectly.
>
> YES! I know old public buildings and some super old apartment
> buildings (and those converted to condos) still operate with a boiler
> system - but come on... single family HOUSES? The only "modern"
> heating water source I know about is fed by the water heater, not a
> boiler (mid-century modern Eichler houses and modern bathrooms with a
> floor heating system in the floor). Define the parameters if it's not
> a single family house, which is what I think most of the people here
> were talking about in generalized terms. I don't know enough about a
> whole building boiler systems to know if hot water from a faucet comes
> from the same place that provides heat to the buildings or not. What
> I do know is that boiler systems are not commonly used in single
> family housing here... like Aga stoves, they are out of the ordinary.
>>
>> I've never seen a furnace with domestic hot water, but boilers that
>> both heat the house and heat the domestic water are very common.
>
> Thanks! Maybe that's the case in old buildings public building or old
> multi-story buildings with multiple apartments (or condo converts).
> My house was built in the '20s and it has never had a boiler system.
> It started off with a coal furnace. My grandparents centennial
> farmhouse in rural Michigan (built in the early 1800s) didn't have a
> boiler system either - it was another coal furnace and they heated
> water on top of their wood burning stove.
>
>> Probably 90% of oil boiler are made that way, at leas until a dozen
>> years ago when better systems were introduced.
>
> No idea what that would be.


I rented out a house in mass. had steam. You only need one pipe to the
radiator. You don't need pumps. Requires a stronger tank. I'm guessing it's
old style. That was 1969. Today that same house probably would cost
hundreds of dollars per month, at today's oil price.

I'm well familiar with coal heat. Coal stoves too. They even used coal in
the fireplaces, often in each room.

Greg

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:01:04 -0500, jay > wrote:

>In article
>,
> Kalmia > wrote:
>
>> On Mar 14, 12:06*pm, Brooklyn1 > wrote:
>> > Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
>> > money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great..
>>
>> Can you give us a little 'rithmetic on cost vs. projected savings?
>
>It will be fuzzy. Too many variables and many are not known. Every
>installation is different and the costs of services are different and
>hot water usage varies etc. The heater is very efficient but you can
>buy a lot of fuel for the difference in cost of installation in most
>cases. I have one and would be just as happy with the old fashion tank.
>Its a feel good kind of thing in many instances somewhat like hybrid or
>electric vehicles. They cost more to buy and when you need the battery
>in your Prius you just spent all that jingle you thought you were saving
>at the pump. Like a fancy watch ... some people want this stuff when
>they could get the time off their Iphone or Timex. Here, heating water
>is cheap but the water isn't.
>
>Also every time you crack the hot spigot open for a couple of seconds
>the heater fires up and if you don't run it a while you don't get hot
>water. If it is not placed in a very central location in regard to your
>kitchen and baths you have to run a lot of water before the hot stuff
>arrives. (Same with a standing tank) I have a circulation pump that
>keeps warm water in the lines and also keeps kicking on the heater to
>keep the circ water hot, using fuel. In larger homes you really need a
>number of them.. talking serious money now.
>
>AND.. they require annual maintenance to the tune of a couple hundred
>bucks a pop unless you buy a pump and 5 gallons of vinegar and do it
>yourself.
>
>jay

Not a feel good thing here. When you have three adults, 2 teenage boys
and two little girls in your household a storage tank hot water system
is just not going to cut it when everyone wants a morning shower.

The closest hot water taps to the unit get hot water within seconds,
the farthest (kitchen) in about 40 seconds. That sink has a gadget to
capture the running water until it gets hot.

JB

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/14/2013 12:35 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
>> does both central heating and hot water
>>
>
> My step-mother said that the houses in her town (Gothenburg?) was heated
> by water coming in from a hot water factory and distributed by underground
> pipes. That was the nuttiest thing that I ever heard. Those Swedes!

I saw that in Lincoln (UK)! About 30 years ago, a woman I knew moved into a
house on a new estate and all the houses were served by a central boiler
Never heard of it since though and I haven't been there for many years, so I
don't know if it is still in operation.

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/14/2013 6:35 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>> Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
>> does both central heating and hot water
>>
> Ours looks different, but it's an oil-fired, _externally_ mounted unit,
> with masses of insulation and a weatherproof casing.

Ours is in a cupboard inside the house - on an outside wall though. (Oh
yes, and it uses gas)

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:09:27 +0800, JBurns >
wrote:



>
>Not a feel good thing here. When you have three adults, 2 teenage boys
>and two little girls in your household a storage tank hot water system
>is just not going to cut it when everyone wants a morning shower.
>

Sure it will, if you have the correct setup. In my house you can take
two showers at a time and do that and more. It is a System 2000 by
Energy Kinetics.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 03:28:12 +0000 (UTC), gregz >
wrote:



>
>I don't like the term boiler unless it's really a boiler for steam heat.
>That's the only time it boils. Water heaters are not boilers, although I've
>seen that happen when they build up stuff in the bottom.
>
>Greg

Like it or not, that is the terminology used all over the world by the
manufacturers and the engineers that design them.

Some boilers will do either, heat water or make steam, depending on
the controls.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:24:31 -0700, sf > wrote:



>> Right.
>> Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
>> incorrectly.
>
>YES! I know old public buildings and some super old apartment
>buildings (and those converted to condos) still operate with a boiler
>system - but come on... single family HOUSES? The only "modern"
>heating water source I know about is fed by the water heater, not a
>boiler (mid-century modern Eichler houses and modern bathrooms with a
>floor heating system in the floor).

As I said, if it heats water, the term used for the device is a
boiler. They range from smallish units for the house to large
industrial sized 100 HP units in industrial or commercial settings. If
you go to a 3000 room hotel in Las Vegas, chances are the domestic hot
water for you shower is heated by a big Cleaver Brooks boiler.


> Define the parameters if it's not
>a single family house, which is what I think most of the people here
>were talking about in generalized terms. I don't know enough about a
>whole building boiler systems to know if hot water from a faucet comes
>from the same place that provides heat to the buildings or not. What
>I do know is that boiler systems are not commonly used in single
>family housing here... like Aga stoves, they are out of the ordinary.

If they are heating water, it is a boiler. Sorry, but that is the
proper term. Single family to big apartment complex, boilers heat the
water. In smaller units like the house, they do both the heating and
the domestic water.
http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/weil-mclain/pc-boilers/

You will see units that do both.
http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/weil-m...ue-gas-boiler/
•Gas fired water boiler with cast aluminum heat exchanger
•Venturi mixing body mixes air and gas providing higher efficiency
•Designed to operate in low temperature condensing applications
•Outdoor reset and domestic hot water priority standard

I don't know what is common in your town, but they are very common in
the cooler climates. Millions of residential boilers exist. Probably
80% of the homes in New England have boilers. A few still have steam.

On 3/15/2013 5:48 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "S Viemeister" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 3/14/2013 6:35 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>> Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
>>> does both central heating and hot water
>>>
>> Ours looks different, but it's an oil-fired, _externally_ mounted unit,
>> with masses of insulation and a weatherproof casing.
>
> Ours is in a cupboard inside the house - on an outside wall though. (Oh
> yes, and it uses gas)
>
Our house is small, and I wanted to recover the space used by the old
system - also, after having had a chimney fire, and cleaning soot off
_everything_, I decided an outside boiler was a very good idea!
If mains gas were available, I'd have used that, but it's not likely to
ever reach us, and we already had the oil tank.

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...

>> Ours is in a cupboard inside the house - on an outside wall though. (Oh
>> yes, and it uses gas)
>>
> Our house is small, and I wanted to recover the space used by the old
> system - also, after having had a chimney fire, and cleaning soot off
> _everything_, I decided an outside boiler was a very good idea!

That would certainly concentrate the mind!!!

> If mains gas were available, I'd have used that, but it's not likely to
> ever reach us, and we already had the oil tank.

We have only oil at the cottage, and we have a boiler with hot water tank
which serves the radiators and hot water. Maybe one day ...

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 06:11:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:24:31 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>
>
> >> Right.
> >> Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
> >> incorrectly.
> >
> >YES! I know old public buildings and some super old apartment
> >buildings (and those converted to condos) still operate with a boiler
> >system - but come on... single family HOUSES? The only "modern"
> >heating water source I know about is fed by the water heater, not a
> >boiler (mid-century modern Eichler houses and modern bathrooms with a
> >floor heating system in the floor).
>
> As I said, if it heats water, the term used for the device is a
> boiler. They range from smallish units for the house to large
> industrial sized 100 HP units in industrial or commercial settings. If
> you go to a 3000 room hotel in Las Vegas, chances are the domestic hot
> water for you shower is heated by a big Cleaver Brooks boiler.
>
>
> > Define the parameters if it's not
> >a single family house, which is what I think most of the people here
> >were talking about in generalized terms. I don't know enough about a
> >whole building boiler systems to know if hot water from a faucet comes
> >from the same place that provides heat to the buildings or not. What
> >I do know is that boiler systems are not commonly used in single
> >family housing here... like Aga stoves, they are out of the ordinary.
>
> If they are heating water, it is a boiler. Sorry, but that is the
> proper term. Single family to big apartment complex, boilers heat the
> water. In smaller units like the house, they do both the heating and
> the domestic water.
> http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/weil-mclain/pc-boilers/

Like I said in another thread.... turn over enough rocks and you can
prove any point.
>
> You will see units that do both.
> http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/weil-m...ue-gas-boiler/
> •Gas fired water boiler with cast aluminum heat exchanger
> •Venturi mixing body mixes air and gas providing higher efficiency
> •Designed to operate in low temperature condensing applications
> •Outdoor reset and domestic hot water priority standard
>
> I don't know what is common in your town, but they are very common in
> the cooler climates. Millions of residential boilers exist. Probably
> 80% of the homes in New England have boilers. A few still have steam.
>
>
We had a hot water heater, not a boiler, when I lived in Michigan.
Water heaters have boilers in them, but no one and I mean NO ONE calls
the entire unit a boiler. Like I said before, commercial and public
buildings have large units called boilers but it is not a term used in
single family residential.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 3/15/2013 5:46 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote
>> On 3/14/2013 12:35 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>> Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
>>> does both central heating and hot water
>>>
>> My step-mother said that the houses in her town (Gothenburg?) was
>> heated by water coming in from a hot water factory and distributed by
>> underground pipes. That was the nuttiest thing that I ever heard.
>> Those Swedes!
>
> I saw that in Lincoln (UK)! About 30 years ago, a woman I knew moved
> into a house on a new estate and all the houses were served by a central
> boiler Never heard of it since though and I haven't been there for
> many years, so I don't know if it is still in operation.
>
A place I stayed in central Reykyavik had radiators heated by volcanic
hot water...

"sf" > wrote in message
...


>>
> We had a hot water heater, not a boiler, when I lived in Michigan.
> Water heaters have boilers in them, but no one and I mean NO ONE calls
> the entire unit a boiler. Like I said before, commercial and public
> buildings have large units called boilers but it is not a term used in
> single family residential.
>


Domestic water heaters are different that the home heating units.

In my last house, we had a water heater that was stand alone, gas fired. We
also had a furnace that made hot air heat to keep the house warm. As you
mentioned, many furnaces can have refrigeration coils installed to cool the
air also. . It was very common in that t ype of house in the area. In
Philly, there could be hundreds of houses build at the same time with the
same heating systems. Some have furnaces, some have boilers, depending on
the design and the t ime period built.

Units that make both hot water for domestic use and are combined with the
heating water are boilers. That, your opinion aside is a fact. Just ask
anyone that makes boilers, designs boilers, installs boilers, the IBR, the
Hydronics Heating Association, and every boiler technician. Yes, some
people do incorrectly call them a furnace, but if you call a tomato an
apple, that does not mean it is correct.