I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
allow me to leave out the brown sugar?

On Tue, 28 May 2013 21:31:08 -0500, Pringles CheezUms
> wrote:

>I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
>into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
>It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
>What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
>allow me to leave out the brown sugar?

My personal feeling is that you don't really want to caramelize the
onion. (or use brown sugar) That would be a wrong flavor for me. I
would sweat the onion before adding any other ingredients. Sweating
an onion takes away the harsh flavors and sweetens it somewhat. Often
you will see a recipe for spaghetti sauce that calls for a
teaspoon/tablespoon of white sugar or others will call for some finely
minced carrot. The goal is to take away the nasty sharp edge from
poor and sour tomatoes. I would look for some really good tomatoes
and try sweating the onion,.
Just my opinion.
Janet US

On Tue, 28 May 2013 21:16:20 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>My personal feeling is that you don't really want to caramelize the
>onion. (or use brown sugar) That would be a wrong flavor for me. I
>would sweat the onion before adding any other ingredients. Sweating
>an onion takes away the harsh flavors and sweetens it somewhat.
In our house we make a base of diced onion, carrot, celery, mushroom
stems, and green pepper fried in olive oil until "pink" then cooked
with tomato paste and minced garlic until darker colored. Proceed as
normal with tomatoes etc.

If sugar is needed then something is wrong.

--
Bob
www.kanyak.com

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 May 2013 21:31:08 -0500, Pringles CheezUms
> > wrote:
>
>>I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
>>into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
>>It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
>>What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
>>allow me to leave out the brown sugar?
>
> My personal feeling is that you don't really want to caramelize the
> onion. (or use brown sugar) That would be a wrong flavor for me. I
> would sweat the onion before adding any other ingredients. Sweating
> an onion takes away the harsh flavors and sweetens it somewhat. Often
> you will see a recipe for spaghetti sauce that calls for a
> teaspoon/tablespoon of white sugar or others will call for some finely
> minced carrot. The goal is to take away the nasty sharp edge from
> poor and sour tomatoes. I would look for some really good tomatoes
> and try sweating the onion,.
> Just my opinion.
> Janet US

My husband complained that my last batch of sauce was icky. It was very
sweet but I didn't add anything sweet. Tomato puree, tomato sauce, red bell
peppers, onions, parsley, oregano and summer savory. Could be the last
thing that caused the sweetness. Not sure. But I liked it a lot.

"Opinicus" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 May 2013 21:16:20 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
>
>>My personal feeling is that you don't really want to caramelize the
>>onion. (or use brown sugar) That would be a wrong flavor for me. I
>>would sweat the onion before adding any other ingredients. Sweating
>>an onion takes away the harsh flavors and sweetens it somewhat.
> In our house we make a base of diced onion, carrot, celery, mushroom
> stems, and green pepper fried in olive oil until "pink" then cooked
> with tomato paste and minced garlic until darker colored. Proceed as
> normal with tomatoes etc.
>
> If sugar is needed then something is wrong.

Agreed. I love to put a couple of squirts of lemon juice in my tomato
dishes. Gives them a natural sweetness. I used to put a pinch of cinnamon
in my spaghetti sauce. I quit doing that I guess only because it is one
dish that I make when I'm in a super hurry for a meal and just pretty much
forget to do it.

On May 28, 11:16*pm, Janet Bostwick > wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2013 21:31:08 -0500, Pringles CheezUms
>
> > wrote:
> >I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
> >into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
> >It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
> >What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
> >allow me to leave out the brown sugar?
>
> My personal feeling is that you don't really want to caramelize the
> onion. *(or use brown sugar) That would be a wrong flavor for me. *I
> would sweat the onion before adding any other ingredients. *Sweating
> an onion takes away the harsh flavors and sweetens it somewhat. *Often
> you will see a recipe for spaghetti sauce that calls for a
> teaspoon/tablespoon of white sugar or others will call for some finely
> minced carrot. *The goal is to take away the nasty sharp edge from
> poor and sour tomatoes. *I would look for some really good tomatoes
> and try sweating the onion,.
> Just my opinion.
> Janet US

I completely agree. However, I do add a pinch of sugar, the tiniest
amount. I feel (maybe eroniously) it stimulates the taste buds
without changing the flavor.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 5/28/2013 9:31 PM, Pringles CheezUms wrote:
> I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
> into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
> It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
> What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
> allow me to leave out the brown sugar?

Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
tomato flavor from tinned sauces.

Becca

On May 29, 1:19*pm, Ema Nymton > wrote:
> On 5/28/2013 9:31 PM, Pringles CheezUms wrote:
>
> > I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
> > into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
> > It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
> > What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
> > allow me to leave out the brown sugar?
>
> Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
> garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
> to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
> tomato flavor from tinned sauces.
>
> Becca

Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet, even at the
expense of flavor. This is especially true for fruit.

hrttp://www.richrdfisher.com

On 29/05/2013 3:01 PM, Helpful person wrote:
>
>> Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
>> garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
>> to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
>> tomato flavor from tinned sauces.
>>
>> Becca
>
> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
> understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet, even at the
> expense of flavor. This is especially true for fruit.
>
>

It is about balance of flavours. Some of the other ingredients are
acidic and/or bitter.

On 5/29/2013 3:01 PM, Helpful person wrote:
> On May 29, 1:19 pm, Ema Nymton > wrote:

>> Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
>> garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
>> to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
>> tomato flavor from tinned sauces.

> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
> understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet,

I was taught to put carrots in sauce to balance any bitterness
by Italians from Italy. I don't, but that's not the point.

nancy

On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:01:14 PM UTC-4, Helpful person wrote:
> On May 29, 1:19*pm, Ema Nymton > wrote:
>
> > On 5/28/2013 9:31 PM, Pringles CheezUms wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
>
> > > into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
>
> > > It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
>
> > > What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
>
> > > allow me to leave out the brown sugar?
>
> >
>
> > Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
>
> > garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
>
> > to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
>
> > tomato flavor from tinned sauces.
>
> >
>
> > Becca
>
>
>
> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
>
> understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet, even at the
>
> expense of flavor. This is especially true for fruit.
>
>
>
> hrttp://www.richrdfisher.com

Do you seriously type out your website address after every post? Because you misspelled it this time. Halfwit.

On Wed, 29 May 2013 12:01:14 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person
> wrote:

>On May 29, 1:19*pm, Ema Nymton > wrote:
>> On 5/28/2013 9:31 PM, Pringles CheezUms wrote:
>>
>> > I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
>> > into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
>> > It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
>> > What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
>> > allow me to leave out the brown sugar?
>>
>> Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
>> garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
>> to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
>> tomato flavor from tinned sauces.
>>
>> Becca
>
>Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
>understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet, even at the
>expense of flavor. This is especially true for fruit.
>
>hrttp://www.richrdfisher.com

I was recently treated to a friend's family dish made with tomatoes
from the grocery store. It was so sour it made your mouth pucker.
Good vegetables have a natural sweetness. It isn't sugary, it's just
flavorful.
Janet US

On May 29, 3:53*pm, Janet Bostwick > wrote:
> On Wed, 29 May 2013 12:01:14 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On May 29, 1:19*pm, Ema Nymton > wrote:
> >> On 5/28/2013 9:31 PM, Pringles CheezUms wrote:
>
> >> > I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
> >> > into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
> >> > It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
> >> > What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
> >> > allow me to leave out the brown sugar?
>
> >> Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
> >> garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
> >> to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
> >> tomato flavor from tinned sauces.
>
> >> Becca
>
> >Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? *I will never
> >understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet, even at the
> >expense of flavor. *This is especially true for fruit.
>
> >hrttp://www.richrdfisher.com
>
> I was recently treated to a friend's family dish made with tomatoes
> from the grocery store. *It was so sour it made your mouth pucker.
> Good vegetables have a natural sweetness. *It isn't sugary, it's just
> flavorful.
> Janet US

Red tomatoes are acidic. I tend to forget that most from the grocery
store can be too tart. I'm lucky that I can find nicely ripe romas
locally that are not too tart.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 5/29/2013 2:01 PM, Helpful person wrote:
> On May 29, 1:19 pm, Ema Nymton > wrote:
>> On 5/28/2013 9:31 PM, Pringles CheezUms wrote:
>>
>>> I've got a pretty decent spaghetti sauce that I'm on project to turn
>>> into fantastic spaghetti sauce.
>>> It has one raw onion and a tbs of brown sugar.
>>> What effect will carmelizing the onion add? Would that be sweet enuf to
>>> allow me to leave out the brown sugar?
>>
>> Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
>> garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
>> to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
>> tomato flavor from tinned sauces.
>>
>> Becca
>
> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet?

Not necessarily sweet, but less sour. Most canned tomato products have
citric acid added to ensure the pH is low enough to be safe. As a
result, sauces made with the canned product may taste more sour than
one prefers. A touch of sweetener can help correct that, as can a
goodly amount of sweet basil and/or crushed fennel seed.

On 5/29/2013 3:35 PM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
> On 5/29/2013 2:01 PM, Helpful person wrote:

>>
>> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet?
>
> Not necessarily sweet, but less sour. Most canned tomato products have
> citric acid added to ensure the pH is low enough to be safe. As a
> result, sauces made with the canned product may taste more sour than
> one prefers. A touch of sweetener can help correct that, as can a
> goodly amount of sweet basil and/or crushed fennel seed.


Exactly! I find that depending on what ingredients I use, there is
sometimes a bitter or sour taste and a little bit of sugar takes that
right away.

George L

On 5/29/2013 9:01 AM, Helpful person wrote:
>
> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
> understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet, even at the
> expense of flavor. This is especially true for fruit.
>
> hrttp://www.richrdfisher.com
>

It's simple - sweet is the most popular taste ever with humans. OTOH, we
probably eat too much foods with sweet tastes so it would be a good idea
if our species didn't have such a sweet-tooth. All we need to do is
genetically modify humans like the roaches are.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/24/sc...-defenses.html

On May 29, 4:35*pm, Moe DeLoughan > wrote:
>
> Not necessarily sweet, but less sour. Most canned tomato products have
> citric acid added to ensure the pH is low enough to be safe. As a
> result, sauces made with the canned product may taste more sour than
> one prefers. A touch of sweetener can help correct that, as can a
> goodly amount of sweet basil and/or crushed fennel seed.

It's not necessary to lower the pH to can tomatoes. They are safe as
is. If they add acid maybe it's for another reason.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 5/29/2013 3:50 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 5/29/2013 9:01 AM, Helpful person wrote:
>>
>> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
>> understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet, even at the
>> expense of flavor. This is especially true for fruit.
>>
>> hrttp://www.richrdfisher.com
>>
>
> It's simple - sweet is the most popular taste ever with humans. OTOH, we
> probably eat too much foods with sweet tastes so it would be a good idea
> if our species didn't have such a sweet-tooth. All we need to do is
> genetically modify humans like the roaches are.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/24/sc...-defenses.html

Nice article, thanks. I enjoy everything, both sweet and salty, but
given a choice, I prefer crackers, chips, popcorn and pretzels to
anything sweet.

Becca

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> On 5/29/2013 3:01 PM, Helpful person wrote:
>> On May 29, 1:19 pm, Ema Nymton > wrote:
>
>>> Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
>>> garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
>>> to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
>>> tomato flavor from tinned sauces.
>
>> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
>> understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet,
>
> I was taught to put carrots in sauce to balance any bitterness
> by Italians from Italy. I don't, but that's not the point.
>
I was taught to do it by a restaurant owner. He had a hot dog place and I
don't eat those but he also sold spaghetti and his sauce was superb!

I put them in on occasion if I think Angela or my husband need to eat more
veggies.

On Wed, 29 May 2013 13:57:50 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person
> wrote:

>On May 29, 4:35*pm, Moe DeLoughan > wrote:
>>
>> Not necessarily sweet, but less sour. Most canned tomato products have
>> citric acid added to ensure the pH is low enough to be safe. As a
>> result, sauces made with the canned product may taste more sour than
>> one prefers. A touch of sweetener can help correct that, as can a
>> goodly amount of sweet basil and/or crushed fennel seed.
>
>It's not necessary to lower the pH to can tomatoes. They are safe as
>is. If they add acid maybe it's for another reason.
>
>http://www.richardfisher.com

You are incorrect. It may have been true 50 years ago as varieties
were more acidic. Today's' hybrids don't carry the same acid profile.
You'd better check the USDA guidelines or the Ball Bluebook.
Janet US

On Wed, 29 May 2013 15:19:31 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 5/29/2013 3:01 PM, Helpful person wrote:
>> On May 29, 1:19 pm, Ema Nymton > wrote:
>
>>> Dice some carrots and saute those along with the chopped onion and
>>> garlic, carrots usually sweeten your sauce enough that you do not have
>>> to use sugar. Sometimes a pinch of sugar helps disguise the canned
>>> tomato flavor from tinned sauces.
>
>> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
>> understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet,
>
>I was taught to put carrots in sauce to balance any bitterness
>by Italians from Italy. I don't, but that's not the point.
>

I'm glad that when I was growing up my 'resident Italian' was a couple
generations removed from the old country and used whatever bottle of
wine was closest to balance the sweetness. <g>

Jim

In article
>,
Helpful person > wrote:

> Why on earth would you want to make the sauce sweet? I will never
> understand why in the US everything needs to be sweet, even at the
> expense of flavor. This is especially true for fruit.

Sometimes a tomato sauce can taste bitter, especially if you don't start
with fully ripe tomatoes (hard to find in US grocery stores) and/or if
they are not cooked down for a long time. But people vary in their
sensitivity to bitterness.

I don't add sugar to a tomato-based pasta sauce. To balance the bitter
flavor, I use caramelized carrots, onions, or mushrooms.

--
Julian Vrieslander

On 5/30/2013 6:54 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> On Wed, 29 May 2013 15:19:31 -0400, Nancy Young

>> I was taught to put carrots in sauce to balance any bitterness
>> by Italians from Italy. I don't, but that's not the point.
>>
>
> I'm glad that when I was growing up my 'resident Italian' was a couple
> generations removed from the old country and used whatever bottle of
> wine was closest to balance the sweetness. <g>

(laugh) Is that what it was there for! The only wine I ever saw
would be a jug of something (usually) red on the table.

nancy

On May 29, 6:46*pm, Janet Bostwick > wrote:
>
> You are incorrect. *It may have been true 50 years ago as varieties
> were more acidic. *Today's' hybrids don't carry the same acid profile.
> You'd better check the USDA guidelines or the Ball Bluebook.
> Janet US

Well, I sit corrected, and surprised. I've always canned Roma
tomatoes and never had a problem. I certainly can imagine yellow
tomatoes being less acidic. Maybe in future I should be more careful
and test the pH.

http://www.richardfisher.com

Well at first glance this sounded easy. Cooked onions will sweeten up but not sure the carmelization is going to increase the sweetness level over and above what would be gained by poaching them in the liquid. I dont think much if any but I unfortunately managed to nap through physic 101. Carmelization would add a lot of good flavor which bound to give a nice boost to the flavor profile. The way a raw onion sweetens up a pot of stew..I would vote to skip the sugar dump..or save it for last in case it dont taste right. Most nice Eyetalian ladies dont use onions..but they do put a little red wine or sugar in the sauce (to cut the acid supposedly) now since wine is an acid not sure how it knows that trick..lol..but it works. Use garlic. Save the onions for meatloaf ...lol

Helpful person > wrote:
> On May 29, 4:35 pm, Moe DeLoughan > wrote:
>>
>> Not necessarily sweet, but less sour. Most canned tomato products have
>> citric acid added to ensure the pH is low enough to be safe. As a
>> result, sauces made with the canned product may taste more sour than
>> one prefers. A touch of sweetener can help correct that, as can a
>> goodly amount of sweet basil and/or crushed fennel seed.
>
> It's not necessary to lower the pH to can tomatoes. They are safe as
> is. If they add acid maybe it's for another reason.
>
> http://www.richardfisher.com

I said I might add citric acid to sauce, then I saw the posted recipe using
vinegar.
Either way I like sauce with bite. I guess you can also have sweet and sour
at the same time.

Greg