I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.

What was missing (as it is from nearly every article warning of the
"danger" of doing something), was *just how dangerous is it?*

Here's what I mean:

For discussion, say the likelihood of contracting cancer *without*
eating grilled food is one in ten million.

Now, if eating some amount (how much?) of grilled food raises the risk
to one in eight million, I'm still going to grill steaks and burgers
whenever I want.

But if the risk goes up to one in *a hundred*, I'm going to put my grill
out on the curb and never cook anything that way again.

Bottom line: without putting some numbers on the risk, the article is
totally useless, except to scare people into doing things they may not
need to do.

So, does anybody know (with numbers):

How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?

What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
once a month, ..?

Isaac

"isw" > wrote in message
]...
>I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
> about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
> grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
> anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.
>
> What was missing (as it is from nearly every article warning of the
> "danger" of doing something), was *just how dangerous is it?*
>
> Here's what I mean:
>
> For discussion, say the likelihood of contracting cancer *without*
> eating grilled food is one in ten million.
>
> Now, if eating some amount (how much?) of grilled food raises the risk
> to one in eight million, I'm still going to grill steaks and burgers
> whenever I want.
>
> But if the risk goes up to one in *a hundred*, I'm going to put my grill
> out on the curb and never cook anything that way again.
>
> Bottom line: without putting some numbers on the risk, the article is
> totally useless, except to scare people into doing things they may not
> need to do.
>
> So, does anybody know (with numbers):
>
> How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?
>
> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
> once a month, ..?
>
> Isaac

I have no clue but... I don't like the taste of grilled food so I don't eat
it.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:



>Bottom line: without putting some numbers on the risk, the article is
>totally useless, except to scare people into doing things they may not
>need to do.
>
>So, does anybody know (with numbers):
>
>How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?
>
>What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
>once a month, ..?
>
>Isaac

Impossible to give accurate numbers. Cooking on the grill is not the
problem, it is the burning fat and stuff that comes back from the
fire. That varies from grill to grill to griller to griller to
different meats.

One of the tips I saw was to use foil over the grill to avoid the
carcinogens. They are essentially taking the grill and making it into
a frying pan. WTF? Why not just use a fry pan?

It may be smart to avoid heavily charred meats every day, but I think
that properly grilled food a couple of times a week in summer is
minimal risk. I did read that in countries where people eat most all
their meals cooked over a wood fire have higher incidents of stomach
cancer.

Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:

-snip-
>>
>>What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
>>once a month, ..?
>>
>>Isaac
>
>Impossible to give accurate numbers.

Eggsactly-- And anyone who says they can is a lying charlatan. Here's
a couple of numbers--
We have 10000 genes- some of them can lean us towards cancer. We
get them at birth and so far we think we are stuck with them.

Each of those genes has 100000 [or is it a million?] variations, that
change on a daily [hourly?] basis. Hit the right [wrong]
combination & you get cancer.

That is from memory from an article I read this spring in Time- The
numbers are likely to be wrong-- but the ratio is about right.

Personally, I just go with moderation and a prayer. Shit happens.

-snip-
>
>One of the tips I saw was to use foil over the grill to avoid the
>carcinogens. They are essentially taking the grill and making it into
>a frying pan. WTF? Why not just use a fry pan?

+1

Jim

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:

> I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
> about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
> grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
> anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.
>
<snip>
>
> So, does anybody know (with numbers):
>
> How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?
>
> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
> once a month, ..?
>

If I was a worry wart, I would be more concerned about the risks of
inhaling BBQ smoke than eating theoretical carcinogens.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 05:38:11 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> It may be smart to avoid heavily charred meats every day, but I think
> that properly grilled food a couple of times a week in summer is
> minimal risk.

Besides, "charcoal is good for your teeth".

> I did read that in countries where people eat most all
> their meals cooked over a wood fire have higher incidents of stomach
> cancer.

Don't forget about the lung disease caused by smoke inhalation.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:

>I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
>about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
>grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
>anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.
>snip
>Isaac

This is just an annual article. The info has been around for decades.
Did the article point out that you are not the only one that is
grilling your food? You have no control over what goes on in your
favorite burger or steak joint. I guess you have to limit what you
eat or take your chances.
Janet US

On 2013-06-17, isw > wrote:

> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
> once a month, ..?

I'd say the real question is: who gives a rat's ass!?

Certainly not me. It's been proven, more or less, one can live longer
by not eating a lotta fatty foods and meats and living on the edge of
starvation, blah blah. You wanna live a long and miserable life, have
at it. I'm gonna die with a grilled hotlink in one hand and a cold
beer in the other and thank the lord for granting me such a fine and
glorious life.

nb

On Jun 17, 6:19*am, notbob > wrote:
> On 2013-06-17, isw > wrote:
>
> > What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
> > once a month, ..?
>
> I'd say the real question is: *who gives a rat's ass!?
>
> Certainly not me. *It's been proven, more or less, one can live longer
> by not eating a lotta fatty foods and meats and living on the edge of
> starvation, blah blah. *You wanna live a long and miserable life, have
> at it. *I'm gonna die with a grilled hotlink in one hand and a cold
> beer in the other and thank the lord for granting me such a fine and
> glorious life. *
>
> nb

Well, I'm with you. Man has been burning meat over a fire for
thousands of years.
I'm going to keep searing and charring my steaks and burgers, etc. and
having a grand time about it.

On Monday, June 17, 2013 6:48:50 AM UTC-4, James Elbrecht wrote:





> Personally, I just go with moderation and a prayer. Shit happens.
>

Ah, quote-worthy.

I HAVE read, tho, that the whole matter can be exacerbated by proper marinating. Since I HATE to set up the grill, I didn't bother to get more details. My Weber gathers dust in the corner, meanwhile.

Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:
>
> >I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
> >about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
> >grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
> >anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.
> >snip
> >Isaac
>
> This is just an annual article. The info has been around for decades.
> Did the article point out that you are not the only one that is
> grilling your food? You have no control over what goes on in your
> favorite burger or steak joint. I guess you have to limit what you
> eat or take your chances.

You *are* going to die. Enjoy your food while you last'

G.

On 6/17/2013 2:07 AM, isw wrote:
> I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
> about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
> grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
> anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.
>
> What was missing (as it is from nearly every article warning of the
> "danger" of doing something), was *just how dangerous is it?*
>
> Here's what I mean:
>
> For discussion, say the likelihood of contracting cancer *without*
> eating grilled food is one in ten million.
>
> Now, if eating some amount (how much?) of grilled food raises the risk
> to one in eight million, I'm still going to grill steaks and burgers
> whenever I want.
>
> But if the risk goes up to one in *a hundred*, I'm going to put my grill
> out on the curb and never cook anything that way again.
>
> Bottom line: without putting some numbers on the risk, the article is
> totally useless, except to scare people into doing things they may not
> need to do.
>
> So, does anybody know (with numbers):
>
> How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?
>
> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
> once a month, ..?
>
> Isaac


Notice how the data is conflated between grilling and red meat consumption.

So are we avoiding "well done" meat?

OK. I am good with that - I much prefer medium rare.

Fried meat?

Not a problem, that's already limited in this household.

BBQ'd?

Nope. Not going to happen.

Red and processed?

Can we say conflation of discrete data points?

Why yes, yes we can.

These "studies" are NOT conclusive and are NOT limited to BBQ'd food
exclusively.

The "science" here is desperately lacking.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...k/cooked-meats

What evidence is there that HCAs and PAHs in cooked meats may increase
cancer risk?

Studies have shown that exposure to HCAs and PAHs can cause cancer in
animal models (6). In many experiments, rodents fed a diet supplemented
with HCAs developed tumors of the breast, colon, liver, skin, lung,
prostate, and other organs (7–12). Rodents fed PAHs also developed
cancers, including leukemia and tumors of the gastrointestinal tract and
lungs (13). However, the doses of HCAs and PAHs used in these studies
were very high—equivalent to thousands of times the doses that a person
would consume in a normal diet.

Population studies have not established a definitive link between HCA
and PAH exposure from cooked meats and cancer in humans. One difficulty
with conducting such studies is that it can be difficult to determine
the exact level of HCA and/or PAH exposure a person gets from cooked
meats. Although dietary questionnaires can provide good estimates, they
may not capture all the detail about cooking techniques that is
necessary to determine HCA and PAH exposure levels. In addition,
individual variation in the activity of enzymes that metabolize HCAs and
PAHs may result in exposure differences, even among people who ingest
(take in) the same amount of these compounds. Also, people may have been
exposed to PAHs from other environmental sources, such as pollution and
tobacco smoke.

Nevertheless, numerous epidemiologic studies have used detailed
questionnaires to examine participants’ meat consumption and meat
cooking methods to estimate HCA and PAH exposures. Researchers found
that high consumption of well-done, fried, or barbecued meats was
associated with increased risks of colorectal (14), pancreatic (15, 16),
and prostate (17, 18) cancer.

Do guidelines exist for the consumption of food containing HCAs and PAHs?

Currently, no Federal guidelines address the consumption of foods
containing HCAs and PAHs. The World Cancer Research Fund/American
Institute for Cancer Research issued a report in 2007 with dietary
guidelines that recommended limiting the consumption of red and
processed (including smoked) meats; however, no recommendations were
provided for HCA and PAH levels in meat (19).

On 6/17/2013 3:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:
>
>
>
>> Bottom line: without putting some numbers on the risk, the article is
>> totally useless, except to scare people into doing things they may not
>> need to do.
>>
>> So, does anybody know (with numbers):
>>
>> How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?
>>
>> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
>> once a month, ..?
>>
>> Isaac
>
> Impossible to give accurate numbers. Cooking on the grill is not the
> problem, it is the burning fat and stuff that comes back from the
> fire. That varies from grill to grill to griller to griller to
> different meats.
>
> One of the tips I saw was to use foil over the grill to avoid the
> carcinogens. They are essentially taking the grill and making it into
> a frying pan. WTF? Why not just use a fry pan?

Oh good catch there.

> It may be smart to avoid heavily charred meats every day, but I think
> that properly grilled food a couple of times a week in summer is
> minimal risk. I did read that in countries where people eat most all
> their meals cooked over a wood fire have higher incidents of stomach
> cancer.

The data on this remains a mixture of non-discrete points:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...k/cooked-meats

Nevertheless, numerous epidemiologic studies have used detailed
questionnaires to examine participants’ meat consumption and meat
cooking methods to estimate HCA and PAH exposures. Researchers found
that high consumption of well-done, fried, or barbecued meats was
associated with increased risks of colorectal (14), pancreatic (15, 16),
and prostate (17, 18) cancer.

On 6/17/2013 5:44 AM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:
>
>> I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
>> about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
>> grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
>> anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.
>>
> <snip>
>>
>> So, does anybody know (with numbers):
>>
>> How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?
>>
>> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
>> once a month, ..?
>>
>
> If I was a worry wart, I would be more concerned about the risks of
> inhaling BBQ smoke than eating theoretical carcinogens.
>

How interesting, a far more direct vector and not one other person
caught it.

On 6/17/2013 7:18 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:
>
>> I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
>> about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
>> grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
>> anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.
>> snip
>> Isaac
>
> This is just an annual article. The info has been around for decades.
> Did the article point out that you are not the only one that is
> grilling your food? You have no control over what goes on in your
> favorite burger or steak joint. I guess you have to limit what you
> eat or take your chances.
> Janet US
>

The studies are conflated, not double blind, and as a result all but
useless:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...k/cooked-meats

Nevertheless, numerous epidemiologic studies have used detailed
questionnaires to examine participants’ meat consumption and meat
cooking methods to estimate HCA and PAH exposures. Researchers found
that high consumption of well-done, fried, or barbecued meats was
associated with increased risks of colorectal (14), pancreatic (15, 16),
and prostate (17, 18) cancer.

Do guidelines exist for the consumption of food containing HCAs and PAHs?

Currently, no Federal guidelines address the consumption of foods
containing HCAs and PAHs. The World Cancer Research Fund/American
Institute for Cancer Research issued a report in 2007 with dietary
guidelines that recommended limiting the consumption of red and
processed (including smoked) meats; however, no recommendations were
provided for HCA and PAH levels in meat (19).

On 6/17/2013 8:38 AM, Gary wrote:
> Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:
>>
>>> I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
>>> about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
>>> grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
>>> anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.
>>> snip
>>> Isaac
>>
>> This is just an annual article. The info has been around for decades.
>> Did the article point out that you are not the only one that is
>> grilling your food? You have no control over what goes on in your
>> favorite burger or steak joint. I guess you have to limit what you
>> eat or take your chances.
>
> You *are* going to die. Enjoy your food while you last'
>
> G.
>
And pay your taxes too, or else you will surely die...oh wait...never
mind...

In article >, casa bona > wrote:

> On 6/17/2013 3:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> Bottom line: without putting some numbers on the risk, the article is
> >> totally useless, except to scare people into doing things they may not
> >> need to do.
> >>
> >> So, does anybody know (with numbers):
> >>
> >> How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?
> >>
> >> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
> >> once a month, ..?
> >>
> >> Isaac
> >
> > Impossible to give accurate numbers. Cooking on the grill is not the
> > problem, it is the burning fat and stuff that comes back from the
> > fire. That varies from grill to grill to griller to griller to
> > different meats.
> >
> > One of the tips I saw was to use foil over the grill to avoid the
> > carcinogens. They are essentially taking the grill and making it into
> > a frying pan. WTF? Why not just use a fry pan?
>
> Oh good catch there.
>
> > It may be smart to avoid heavily charred meats every day, but I think
> > that properly grilled food a couple of times a week in summer is
> > minimal risk. I did read that in countries where people eat most all
> > their meals cooked over a wood fire have higher incidents of stomach
> > cancer.
>
> The data on this remains a mixture of non-discrete points:
>
> http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...k/cooked-meats
>
> Nevertheless, numerous epidemiologic studies have used detailed
> questionnaires to examine participants¹ meat consumption and meat
> cooking methods to estimate HCA and PAH exposures. Researchers found
> that high consumption of well-done, fried, or barbecued meats was
> associated with increased risks of colorectal (14), pancreatic (15, 16),
> and prostate (17, 18) cancer.

OK, but again: by *how much* is the risk increased? Without that info,
the results are useless (except for the scare factor).

Another trick I've seen in this kind of silly study is to add a ratio,
like "The risk is DOUBLED!!!", which sounds more precise, and also
really scary.

But if the original risk was one in a hundred million, then a doubling
is still only one in fifty million, which is way too low to worry about.

I cannot recall the last time I saw a "news" article on any sort of
medical risk study where there was enough information to actually allow
an informed decision.

Isaac

On 6/17/2013 12:41 PM, isw wrote:
> In article >, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> On 6/17/2013 3:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 01:07:01 -0700, isw > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bottom line: without putting some numbers on the risk, the article is
>>>> totally useless, except to scare people into doing things they may not
>>>> need to do.
>>>>
>>>> So, does anybody know (with numbers):
>>>>
>>>> How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?
>>>>
>>>> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
>>>> once a month, ..?
>>>>
>>>> Isaac
>>>
>>> Impossible to give accurate numbers. Cooking on the grill is not the
>>> problem, it is the burning fat and stuff that comes back from the
>>> fire. That varies from grill to grill to griller to griller to
>>> different meats.
>>>
>>> One of the tips I saw was to use foil over the grill to avoid the
>>> carcinogens. They are essentially taking the grill and making it into
>>> a frying pan. WTF? Why not just use a fry pan?
>>
>> Oh good catch there.
>>
>>> It may be smart to avoid heavily charred meats every day, but I think
>>> that properly grilled food a couple of times a week in summer is
>>> minimal risk. I did read that in countries where people eat most all
>>> their meals cooked over a wood fire have higher incidents of stomach
>>> cancer.
>>
>> The data on this remains a mixture of non-discrete points:
>>
>> http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...k/cooked-meats
>>
>> Nevertheless, numerous epidemiologic studies have used detailed
>> questionnaires to examine participants¹ meat consumption and meat
>> cooking methods to estimate HCA and PAH exposures. Researchers found
>> that high consumption of well-done, fried, or barbecued meats was
>> associated with increased risks of colorectal (14), pancreatic (15, 16),
>> and prostate (17, 18) cancer.
>
> OK, but again: by *how much* is the risk increased? Without that info,
> the results are useless (except for the scare factor).

I do not know, and neither do they, so I am agreeing with you.

> Another trick I've seen in this kind of silly study is to add a ratio,
> like "The risk is DOUBLED!!!", which sounds more precise, and also
> really scary.

No underlying number = no need to pay any attention.

> But if the original risk was one in a hundred million, then a doubling
> is still only one in fifty million, which is way too low to worry about.

Absolutely.

> I cannot recall the last time I saw a "news" article on any sort of
> medical risk study where there was enough information to actually allow
> an informed decision.
>
> Isaac

I've been seeing a lot of that myself lately, plenty of scare, a paucity
of data.

In fact I'm not at all sure the red meat/carnitine/cancer risk was very
well delineated either.

On 6/17/2013 8:42 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> So I sleep pretty well at night.
>
> -sw


Do you Spin?

Or can you only retire when Marty calls the shots and sets the play?

I see you as a classic beta dog, some bark, not much bite.

On 2013-06-19, Sqwertz > wrote:
>
> That's just somebody who doesn't know how to grill. Most likely
> grilling too close to a too hot flame.

And constant attention. Those chkn pieces need to be turned. Often!

nb

On 6/17/2013 4:07 AM, isw wrote:
> I just read a scary article "4 Easy Steps for Safe Summer Grilling"
> about how "dangerous" it is to grill meat at high temperature, to let
> grease drip and flare up, and on and on. Basically, the claim is that
> anything that makes the meat taste good is going to kill you.
>
> What was missing (as it is from nearly every article warning of the
> "danger" of doing something), was *just how dangerous is it?*
>
> Here's what I mean:
>
> For discussion, say the likelihood of contracting cancer *without*
> eating grilled food is one in ten million.
>
> Now, if eating some amount (how much?) of grilled food raises the risk
> to one in eight million, I'm still going to grill steaks and burgers
> whenever I want.
>
> But if the risk goes up to one in *a hundred*, I'm going to put my grill
> out on the curb and never cook anything that way again.
>
> Bottom line: without putting some numbers on the risk, the article is
> totally useless, except to scare people into doing things they may not
> need to do.
>
> So, does anybody know (with numbers):
>
> How much does the risk of cancer increase due to eating grilled meat?
>
> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
> once a month, ..?
>
> Isaac
>

I hate stories like that. Life gives you cancer. But I understand
about charred food, and how it might be carcinogenic but like you, I
don't know the line it passes.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 6/17/2013 6:48 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

> That is from memory from an article I read this spring in Time- The
> numbers are likely to be wrong-- but the ratio is about right.
>
> Personally, I just go with moderation and a prayer. Shit happens.
>
Agree! Besides, carcinogens aren't going to affect every person the
same way. How to know you're the one at risk? Can they find a gene
that says you're at risk for stomach cancer like Angelina Joline found
for a risk for breast cancer? Maybe. But she doesn't have to avoid
food. Life causes cancer. How to avoid, who knows, other than avoid
the obvious.

> -snip-
>> >
>> >One of the tips I saw was to use foil over the grill to avoid the
>> >carcinogens. They are essentially taking the grill and making it into
>> >a frying pan. WTF? Why not just use a fry pan?
> +1

If it comes down to using the grill as a frying pan, I'd rather risk the
carcinogens.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 6/17/2013 11:00 AM, casa bona wrote:

> Nevertheless, numerous epidemiologic studies have used detailed
> questionnaires to examine participantsÂ’ meat consumption and meat
> cooking methods to estimate HCA and PAH exposures. Researchers found
> that high consumption of well-done, fried, or barbecued meats was
> associated with increased risks of colorectal (14), pancreatic (15, 16),
> and prostate (17, 18) cancer.

Anecdotaly, my sister is a colorectal cancer survivor (total large
intestine removal; colostomy bag for life) and she rarely ate grilled
food. Of course there are other risk factors other than lifestyle
including genetics.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 6/17/2013 9:19 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2013-06-17, isw > wrote:
>
>> What is the relative risk between grilled meat once a day, once a week,
>> once a month, ..?
>
> I'd say the real question is: who gives a rat's ass!?
>
> Certainly not me. It's been proven, more or less, one can live longer
> by not eating a lotta fatty foods and meats and living on the edge of
> starvation, blah blah. You wanna live a long and miserable life, have
> at it. I'm gonna die with a grilled hotlink in one hand and a cold
> beer in the other and thank the lord for granting me such a fine and
> glorious life.
>
> nb
>
Hear here!!

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 6/19/2013 10:50 AM, Gary wrote:

> I have a friend who boils his chicken to done, then chars it on the grill.
> ugghhh... but I haven't confronted him about this process yet.
>
> G.
>
Depending on whether it's white or dark meat it would do well to cook
dark meat over indirect heat then char. White meat I'd do over high
heat no more than 8 mins per side on high heat. Dark meat I char then
cook with indirect heat for 1/2 hour per side. Char the other side.

The white meat then should be taken off of the heat and tented with foil
to let it rest and it will cook any pink meat in the middle while it rests.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

In article om>,
Cheryl > wrote:

> On 6/19/2013 10:50 AM, Gary wrote:
>
> > I have a friend who boils his chicken to done, then chars it on the grill.
> > ugghhh... but I haven't confronted him about this process yet.
> >
> > G.
> >
> Depending on whether it's white or dark meat it would do well to cook
> dark meat over indirect heat then char. White meat I'd do over high
> heat no more than 8 mins per side on high heat. Dark meat I char then
> cook with indirect heat for 1/2 hour per side. Char the other side.
>
> The white meat then should be taken off of the heat and tented with foil
> to let it rest and it will cook any pink meat in the middle while it rests.

I really don't feel comfortable with that "meat not pink" or "juices run
clear" thing -- I'm not shooting for a certain appearance; I'm trying to
make sure the little bitty baddies are dead, dead, dead. From what I've
read, it's possible for the chicken to be "not pink" (or appear so,
depending on the lighting) when the temperature is still too low do do
the job.

The temperature required to make chicken safe (talking salmonella here)
is a function of time: 165F is the "instant kill" number, but a minimum
of two minutes at 155F is just as good, and the meat has a much nicer
texture. It takes a good 12 minutes at 140F, and I suspect the meat
could appear "not pink" well before that time has elapsed.

I always use a properly calibrated instant-read thermometer, and check
several places in the meat just to make sure (it's surprising the first
time you discover that the thickest area is not necessarily the last
part to hit the mark).

Isaac