On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:30:50 -0600, casa bona > wrote:

> On 6/19/2013 10:44 AM, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:56:20 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/18/2013 5:43 PM, sf wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:43:30 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Your take obviously is accurate. I would amend "revenge" to the
> >>>> application of charges filed and a restraining order.
> >>>
> >>> And remember that a restraining order is just a piece of paper, so be
> >>> wary at all times.
> >>
> >> Sound advice, they get violated all too regularly.
> >>
> >> I'm still shocked that a British prosecutor hasn't filed on this; I
> >> would never have imagined a cultural leniency for such behavior existed.
> >>
> >> I mean this is the country that revels in the speed camera and has more
> >> surveillance cams per capita than any other nation.
> >>
> >> Odd, just plain odd.
> >
> > Not really, it's a completely different culture in spite of a common
> > language (which is often misunderstood anyway)
> >
> Agreed on the cultural difference, I wonder is it remnant Viking blood
> that allows them to excuse domestic abuse?

No idea. I thought they'd evolved beyond thinking of women as
chattel. Different countries, different attitudes, different rules.
I just hope Nigella dumps that loser soon. She deserves better than
that.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 6/19/2013 1:09 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:30:50 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> On 6/19/2013 10:44 AM, sf wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:56:20 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/18/2013 5:43 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:43:30 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your take obviously is accurate. I would amend "revenge" to the
>>>>>> application of charges filed and a restraining order.
>>>>>
>>>>> And remember that a restraining order is just a piece of paper, so be
>>>>> wary at all times.
>>>>
>>>> Sound advice, they get violated all too regularly.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still shocked that a British prosecutor hasn't filed on this; I
>>>> would never have imagined a cultural leniency for such behavior existed.
>>>>
>>>> I mean this is the country that revels in the speed camera and has more
>>>> surveillance cams per capita than any other nation.
>>>>
>>>> Odd, just plain odd.
>>>
>>> Not really, it's a completely different culture in spite of a common
>>> language (which is often misunderstood anyway)
>>>
>> Agreed on the cultural difference, I wonder is it remnant Viking blood
>> that allows them to excuse domestic abuse?
>
> No idea. I thought they'd evolved beyond thinking of women as
> chattel. Different countries, different attitudes, different rules.
> I just hope Nigella dumps that loser soon. She deserves better than
> that.
>
She truly does, and as a physical aside, she looks fabulous for being
all of 53!

In article >,
lid says...
>
> "Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > CNN US posted a story that made the caution acceptance sound pretty
> > light weight. It was difficult to read between the lines and search
> > for the info as you presented it. I guess you have to understand the
> > workings of UK law better to get the impact here.
>
> Update!
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hoked-her.html
>
> Please note: "... he was not arrested and escaped with a caution, a
> low-level punishment more commonly associated with vandalism and
> pickpocketing"

"the offence will appear on enhanced criminal checks and would count
against him if he is arrested."

"A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: ?The option of inviting
someone to voluntarily attend a police station with their solicitor and
to be interviewed under caution is widely used, including in some cases
of domestic violence, as long as our duty of care to the victim, and the
needs of the investigation, are still met.?


Janet.

On 6/19/2013 12:38 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 6/18/2013 7:23 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 6/18/2013 1:06 PM, casa bona wrote:
>>>
>>> Regardless of fame, fortune, fans or friends, abuse is a psychological
>>> prison that can be as impossible to escape as addiction or any other
>>> physical or mental illness.
>>>
>>> I hope she breaks away and finds someone who will over and honor her as
>>> a human being, not an object to be controlled.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that she's a scared housewife that can't make her own
>> decisions and take care of herself? Fess up, you believe that she should
>> be rescued despite whatever she wants. That's fine with me - most people
>> would think the same way. I don't.
>
> I don't buy into the scared housewife thing. But sometimes people need
> a push to get out of an unpleasant situation. No one but them knows
> what's really going on in their lives. Of course we, being people, love
> to speculate.
>
> Jill

Speculation is what humans do better than any other species on this
planet. It just makes us ever so special...

In article >, says...
>
> On 6/19/2013 10:44 AM, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:56:20 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/18/2013 5:43 PM, sf wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:43:30 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Your take obviously is accurate. I would amend "revenge" to the
> >>>> application of charges filed and a restraining order.
> >>>
> >>> And remember that a restraining order is just a piece of paper, so be
> >>> wary at all times.
> >>
> >> Sound advice, they get violated all too regularly.
> >>
> >> I'm still shocked that a British prosecutor hasn't filed on this; I
> >> would never have imagined a cultural leniency for such behavior existed.
> >>
> >> I mean this is the country that revels in the speed camera and has more
> >> surveillance cams per capita than any other nation.
> >>
> >> Odd, just plain odd.
> >
> > Not really, it's a completely different culture in spite of a common
> > language (which is often misunderstood anyway)
> >
> Agreed on the cultural difference, I wonder is it remnant Viking blood
> that allows them to excuse domestic abuse?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesti..._United_States

About 60% of Native American women are physically assaulted in their
lifetime by a partner or spouse

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/do...ces/statistics
..html

"Prevalence of Domestic Violence

In a 1995-1996 study conducted in the 50 States and the District of
Columbia, nearly 25% of women and 7.6% of men were raped and/or
physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner,
or dating partner/acquaintance at some time in their lifetime

Approximately 1.3 million women and 835,000 men are physically
assaulted by an intimate partner annually in the United States.

Intimate partner violence made up 20% of all nonfatal violent crime
experienced by women in 2001."

Janet UK

On 6/19/2013 2:21 PM, Janet wrote:
> In article >, says...
>>
>> On 6/19/2013 10:44 AM, sf wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:56:20 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/18/2013 5:43 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:43:30 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your take obviously is accurate. I would amend "revenge" to the
>>>>>> application of charges filed and a restraining order.
>>>>>
>>>>> And remember that a restraining order is just a piece of paper, so be
>>>>> wary at all times.
>>>>
>>>> Sound advice, they get violated all too regularly.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still shocked that a British prosecutor hasn't filed on this; I
>>>> would never have imagined a cultural leniency for such behavior existed.
>>>>
>>>> I mean this is the country that revels in the speed camera and has more
>>>> surveillance cams per capita than any other nation.
>>>>
>>>> Odd, just plain odd.
>>>
>>> Not really, it's a completely different culture in spite of a common
>>> language (which is often misunderstood anyway)
>>>
>> Agreed on the cultural difference, I wonder is it remnant Viking blood
>> that allows them to excuse domestic abuse?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesti..._United_States
>
> About 60% of Native American women are physically assaulted in their
> lifetime by a partner or spouse

Yes, we do have a plethora of problems, violence especially, amongst our
Native Americans.

Btw, that violence also extends to cruelty to animals.

>
> http://www.americanbar.org/groups/do...ces/statistics
> .html
>
> "Prevalence of Domestic Violence
>
> In a 1995-1996 study conducted in the 50 States and the District of
> Columbia, nearly 25% of women and 7.6% of men were raped and/or
> physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner,
> or dating partner/acquaintance at some time in their lifetime
>
> Approximately 1.3 million women and 835,000 men are physically
> assaulted by an intimate partner annually in the United States.
>
> Intimate partner violence made up 20% of all nonfatal violent crime
> experienced by women in 2001."
>
> Janet UK
>

Now over your way the statistics read:

http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic...0001002200 36

1 in 4 women will be a victim of domestic violence in their lifetime –
many of these on a number of occasions.

One incident of domestic violence is reported to the police every minute.

On average, 2 women a week are killed by a current or former male partner.

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/resou..._wda87794.html

According to a recent NSPCC study, 12% of under 11s, 18% of 11-17s and
24% of 18-24s had been exposed to domestic abuse between adults in their
homes during childhood. Adult males were the perpetrators in 94% of
cases where one parent had physically abused another.
From: NSPCC (2011) Child abuse and neglect in the UK today. London: NSPCC.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/articles/...es_the_future/

Victims of domestic violence are more likely to experience repeat
victimisation than victims of any other types of crime(British Crime
Survey Reports)

76 per cent of all DV incidents are repeat (Flatley, Kershaw, Smith,
Chaplin and Moon (July 2010) BCS - Crime in England and Wales 2009/10 ,
Home Office, accessed at
http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb1210.pdf p24)


Focus on the _repeat_ number, consider how that may apply to Ms.
Lawson's sad incident.

"Janet" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> lid says...
>>
>> "Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > CNN US posted a story that made the caution acceptance sound pretty
>> > light weight. It was difficult to read between the lines and search
>> > for the info as you presented it. I guess you have to understand the
>> > workings of UK law better to get the impact here.
>>
>> Update!
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hoked-her.html
>>
>> Please note: "... he was not arrested and escaped with a caution, a
>> low-level punishment more commonly associated with vandalism and
>> pickpocketing"
>
> "the offence will appear on enhanced criminal checks and would count
> against him if he is arrested."
>
> "A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: ?The option of inviting
> someone to voluntarily attend a police station with their solicitor and
> to be interviewed under caution is widely used, including in some cases
> of domestic violence, as long as our duty of care to the victim, and the
> needs of the investigation, are still met.?



--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:25:20 -0600, casa bona > wrote:

>On 6/18/2013 7:08 PM, Janet wrote:
>> In article >, says...
>>>
>>> On 6/18/2013 12:06 PM, Janet wrote:
>>>> In article >, says...
>>>>
>>>>> Late word, the unfree kingdom bobbies have issued him a "caution".
>>>>
>>>> To accept a police caution for assault, he had to admit to the
>>>> police he assaulted her and now has a police record.
>>>>
>>>> >how special
>>>>
>>>> smarter than you think;
>>>>
>>>> A humiliating reversal of all his previous coverups, a very grave legal
>>>> position if he ever faces similar accusations again, and total dynamite
>>>> in divorce court.
>>>>
>>>> All while it's fresh in the public mind and without Nigella needing to
>>>> say a word.
>>>>
>>>> I'd say his goose is well and truly cooked.
>>>>
>>>> Janet UK
>>>>
>>>
>>> Honestly I really do hope so.
>>>
>>> I'd have thought Britain would have had harsher laws in this area.
>>
>> We do, of course.
>
>How so?
>
>In this nation he'd be in a cell, right now.
>
>
>> But she has deliberately chosen not to go that route. IMO she had very
>> little to gain from pressing charges, other than a lot more media
>> humiliation and distress for herself and her children, facing
>> questioning in court from defence lawyers for a man whose advertising
>> business is all about the manipulation of public image. Pain dragging on
>> for months.
>
>Here a district attorney would have made the case for the state,
>regardless of whether she consented, period.
>
>> This not some average wife with no safe place except getting him
>> locked up, no money to support her kids, and prospective child custody
>> issues. If she wants she can just walk away tomorrow; she's holding all
>> the cards; a public admission of assault, his character in the gutter,
>> grounds for separation/divorce. Plenty of her own money and the kids
>> are hers.
>>
>> Janet.
>>
>
>The issue is if she walks back into the house WITH him.
>
>How many cards she holds is irrelevant if she chooses to return to an
>abusive relationship.
>
>We understand and act on that here.
>
>Why don't you?

While I agree mostly with you, in your country a lot of men end up in
cells on false alegations or arrested on an assumption that it was
them whereas it was the female partner. Google it.

These photos are pretty damning though, it does not look like there is
any other interpretation. Grabbing someone by the throat is an overtly
threatening gesture and I cannot imagine any verbal argument that
requires those actions to make one's point. As for the nose twisting,
that is just cruel and belittling. She looks distraught.

If he is OK with these kind of actions in a very public place, what is
he doing behind closed doors? I am glad he did it in public because it
will probably force Nigella's hand as she will now be in a position
where she will be soundly condemned if she takes her children back
into that situation.

JB


>

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:38:03 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 18/06/2013 12:41 PM, sf wrote:
>
>> Somebody was taking a lot of pictures, so how is it that we just saw
>> images of him attacking her, none of her attacking him and no reports
>> from witnesses that she did anything? That nose pulling picture was a
>> real doozy showing that he was in the middle of a giant sized temper
>> tantrum - totally out of control. He was not treating her like a
>> human being, all he needed was a nose ring to twist.
>>
>
>
>Is he really pulling her nose. It doesn't look like the type of grip one
>would use to pull a nose, and she does not appear to be in the sort of
>pain one would expect if her nose was being pulled.

Look closely at the photo, her lip is twisted up and to the side. He
is most certainly twisting her nose.

You know, I actually agree with about being sceptical of what you see
in the tabloids, but you are starting to sound like you really think
that this is really minor.

Grabbing someone by the throat is an overtly threatening gesture no
matter how much pressure is applied. It is such an overtly threatening
gesture that, had he done it to a man, he would most certainly be hit.

JB

"George Leppla" > wrote in message
...
> On 6/19/2013 5:10 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>
>>> "During my years working in enforcement I discovered a universal
>>> truth. When someone says "I swear to God...", the next thing that
>>> comes out of their mind is likely to be a lie."
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...Q/nd8YihjPtTQJ
>>>
>>> If he didn't outright say he was a pig, he certainly implied it on
>>> several dozen occasions. Any reasonable person would have assumed
>>> that was once his profession. Probably just worded it carefully to
>>> make him seem more important and an authority figure.
>>>
>>> (*) Looks like a favorite story of his:
>>> <http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&q=author%3Adave+author%3Asmith+swear+ to+god+group%3Arec.food.cooking&btnG=Search&sitese arch=>
>>
>> Makes me wonder about the rest of his lurid claims
>>
>
>
> So what is the truth, Dave? What job did you have during your "years in
> enforcement"?
>
> I seem to remember you posting recently about writing citations for bad
> trucking logs. Were you a cop or not? Share with us the experience in
> "enforcement" that you bring to the table.

Methinks you will wait till hell freezes over!
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Further update:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Saatchi.html

"has been living in a £10,000 a week Mayfair bolthole"

So she has left him! Excellent!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 06:38:07 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 6/18/2013 7:23 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 6/18/2013 1:06 PM, casa bona wrote:
>>>
>>> Regardless of fame, fortune, fans or friends, abuse is a psychological
>>> prison that can be as impossible to escape as addiction or any other
>>> physical or mental illness.
>>>
>>> I hope she breaks away and finds someone who will over and honor her as
>>> a human being, not an object to be controlled.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that she's a scared housewife that can't make her own
>> decisions and take care of herself? Fess up, you believe that she should
>> be rescued despite whatever she wants. That's fine with me - most people
>> would think the same way. I don't.
>
>I don't buy into the scared housewife thing. But sometimes people need
>a push to get out of an unpleasant situation. No one but them knows
>what's really going on in their lives. Of course we, being people, love
>to speculate.
>
>Jill

Just because you were not a "scared housewife" (after reading of your
previous situation, I mean this in the best way) does not mean they do
not exist. Sometimes people have been conditioned to accept all sorts
of things, especially if it happens in childhood. Some people become
so downtrodden they just cannot see a way out and some people are
extremely scared about retribution.

Having said that, Nigella has had all the financial resources and
supporters to break free so she is in a lot better situation than
some. I hope this adverse publicity is so embarrasing that she cannot
go back, and that she gets any help her teenage children need to
realise that healthy relationships do not look like this.

JB

On 6/20/2013 4:15 AM, JBurns wrote:
> You know, I actually agree with about being sceptical of what you see
> in the tabloids, but you are starting to sound like you really think
> that this is really minor.


Ahhh... but you forget that Dave was some kind of "enforcement"
professional.

Of course, numerous people have asked him to explain exactly what that
job was but the silence is defending.

George L

On 6/20/2013 5:37 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> >
>> >So what is the truth, Dave? What job did you have during your "years in
>> >enforcement"?
>> >
>> >I seem to remember you posting recently about writing citations for bad
>> >trucking logs. Were you a cop or not? Share with us the experience in
>> >"enforcement" that you bring to the table.

> Methinks you will wait till hell freezes over!
> --

Yep. Dave has gone suddenly quiet. I wonder why.

George L

On 20/06/2013 6:22 AM, JBurns wrote:

> I can't help being envious at how fabulous she looks at 53 even with a
> puffy tearful face.
>



She is a goddess, and if she dumps that jerk there will be a line at her
door.

On 6/20/2013 7:06 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 20/06/2013 6:22 AM, JBurns wrote:
>
>> I can't help being envious at how fabulous she looks at 53 even with a
>> puffy tearful face.
>>
>
>
>
> She is a goddess, and if she dumps that jerk there will be a line at her
> door.
>


Can you call someone with swollen glands and allergies that make her
eyes water a "Goddess"?

George L

On 6/20/2013 6:52 AM, JBurns wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 06:38:07 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> I don't buy into the scared housewife thing. But sometimes people need
>> a push to get out of an unpleasant situation. No one but them knows
>> what's really going on in their lives. Of course we, being people, love
>> to speculate.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Just because you were not a "scared housewife" (after reading of your
> previous situation, I mean this in the best way) does not mean they do
> not exist. Sometimes people have been conditioned to accept all sorts
> of things, especially if it happens in childhood. Some people become
> so downtrodden they just cannot see a way out and some people are
> extremely scared about retribution.
>
Yes, I was scared, no doubt about it. (He scratched the words "I'am a
C---" in the paint on the driver side door of my car.) By the way, that
wasn't a typo. He misspelled "I'm" and did it again in a card he left
in the mailbox. I took photos of the damage and a photographer friend
at work printed enlargements for me. I also saved the card.

Fortunately, I had the support of my family and friends. Oh, the police
politely noted my complaints. I got permission from my boss to tape the
calls he was making to me at work (I kept scrupulous records of all of
it). It didn't help that I had no idea where he was living so I
couldn't tell them where to find him. But I was steadily documenting
and gathering evidence.

In the end, he was stopped on a traffic violation. When they ran him
through the system a flag went up. I finally got a call from a cop who
*did* understand this was a criminal matter and locked him up.

Now, remember that misspelling? That's what tipped the scales. My ex-
thought it was laughable. He even sauntered up to me in the courthouse
and said something like, "Spelling errors? Ha!" Funny, the prosecutor
and the judge didn't think it was amusing. He served 11 months 29 days
in the state prison. Ha! yourself, asshole.

> Having said that, Nigella has had all the financial resources and
> supporters to break free so she is in a lot better situation than
> some. I hope this adverse publicity is so embarrasing that she cannot
> go back, and that she gets any help her teenage children need to
> realise that healthy relationships do not look like this.
>
Oh I agree with that completely, JB. She has the financial resources.
Many people don't. And sometimes these types manage to isolate a person
so completely from everyone, friends, family, they don't have anyone to
turn to. I don't think she'll have that problem. And yes, she needs to
make sure those teenagers realize this type of behaviour isn't normal,
healthy or to be condoned.

Jill

On 20/06/2013 8:01 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/20/2013 4:15 AM, JBurns wrote:
>> You know, I actually agree with about being sceptical of what you see
>> in the tabloids, but you are starting to sound like you really think
>> that this is really minor.
>
>
> Ahhh... but you forget that Dave was some kind of "enforcement"
> professional.


Yes I was.
>
> Of course, numerous people have asked him to explain exactly what that
> job was but the silence is defending.


I have said in the past what I did in a law enforcement capacity.
Someone said that I claimed to have been a cop. I said that I was not a
cop and never had been. The only person whose post I have seen that
asked directly was you. Yes. The silence is defending [sic]. If you
really want to know maybe someone else will tell you.

On 20/06/2013 8:02 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/20/2013 5:37 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>> >
>>> >So what is the truth, Dave? What job did you have during your
>>> "years in
>>> >enforcement"?
>>> >
>>> >I seem to remember you posting recently about writing citations for bad
>>> >trucking logs. Were you a cop or not? Share with us the experience in
>>> >"enforcement" that you bring to the table.
>
>> Methinks you will wait till hell freezes over!
>> --
>
> Yep. Dave has gone suddenly quiet. I wonder why.

Between a day of yard work, going out for supper, going to bed, going
out for a 20 mile bicycle right, I haven't posted much on anything. I
thought I had acknowledged that it did, in fact, turn out to have been a
case of abuse. I had previously said that I was not prepared to accept
the dirt being dished out by a British tabloid because they are
notorious for making mountains out of mole hills.

I did note that throughout the documented incident, the couple were
holding hands, and that Nigella did not file a complaint. I also
acknowledged that in the UK, a caution is a formal process, unlike North
America, where a caution is an informal warning and nor formally warning.


Perhaps in the UK there is also a category for a "formal complaint", as
opposed to a "complaint", but AFAIK no "formal complaint" made is the
same thing as no complaint made at all.

On 6/20/2013 2:33 AM, JBurns wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:25:20 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> On 6/18/2013 7:08 PM, Janet wrote:
>>> In article >, says...
>>>>
>>>> On 6/18/2013 12:06 PM, Janet wrote:
>>>>> In article >, says...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Late word, the unfree kingdom bobbies have issued him a "caution".
>>>>>
>>>>> To accept a police caution for assault, he had to admit to the
>>>>> police he assaulted her and now has a police record.
>>>>>
>>>>> >how special
>>>>>
>>>>> smarter than you think;
>>>>>
>>>>> A humiliating reversal of all his previous coverups, a very grave legal
>>>>> position if he ever faces similar accusations again, and total dynamite
>>>>> in divorce court.
>>>>>
>>>>> All while it's fresh in the public mind and without Nigella needing to
>>>>> say a word.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd say his goose is well and truly cooked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Janet UK
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Honestly I really do hope so.
>>>>
>>>> I'd have thought Britain would have had harsher laws in this area.
>>>
>>> We do, of course.
>>
>> How so?
>>
>> In this nation he'd be in a cell, right now.
>>
>>
>>> But she has deliberately chosen not to go that route. IMO she had very
>>> little to gain from pressing charges, other than a lot more media
>>> humiliation and distress for herself and her children, facing
>>> questioning in court from defence lawyers for a man whose advertising
>>> business is all about the manipulation of public image. Pain dragging on
>>> for months.
>>
>> Here a district attorney would have made the case for the state,
>> regardless of whether she consented, period.
>>
>>> This not some average wife with no safe place except getting him
>>> locked up, no money to support her kids, and prospective child custody
>>> issues. If she wants she can just walk away tomorrow; she's holding all
>>> the cards; a public admission of assault, his character in the gutter,
>>> grounds for separation/divorce. Plenty of her own money and the kids
>>> are hers.
>>>
>>> Janet.
>>>
>>
>> The issue is if she walks back into the house WITH him.
>>
>> How many cards she holds is irrelevant if she chooses to return to an
>> abusive relationship.
>>
>> We understand and act on that here.
>>
>> Why don't you?
>
> While I agree mostly with you, in your country a lot of men end up in
> cells on false alegations or arrested on an assumption that it was
> them whereas it was the female partner. Google it.

You are correct, mistakes happen, sometimes intentionally.

That's always going to be a problem with aggressive prosecution.

> These photos are pretty damning though, it does not look like there is
> any other interpretation. Grabbing someone by the throat is an overtly
> threatening gesture and I cannot imagine any verbal argument that
> requires those actions to make one's point. As for the nose twisting,
> that is just cruel and belittling. She looks distraught.

Completely.

> If he is OK with these kind of actions in a very public place, what is
> he doing behind closed doors? I am glad he did it in public because it
> will probably force Nigella's hand as she will now be in a position
> where she will be soundly condemned if she takes her children back
> into that situation.
>
> JB

I think that's going to end up being the case.

On 6/20/2013 3:15 AM, JBurns wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:38:03 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 18/06/2013 12:41 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>>> Somebody was taking a lot of pictures, so how is it that we just saw
>>> images of him attacking her, none of her attacking him and no reports
>>> from witnesses that she did anything? That nose pulling picture was a
>>> real doozy showing that he was in the middle of a giant sized temper
>>> tantrum - totally out of control. He was not treating her like a
>>> human being, all he needed was a nose ring to twist.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Is he really pulling her nose. It doesn't look like the type of grip one
>> would use to pull a nose, and she does not appear to be in the sort of
>> pain one would expect if her nose was being pulled.
>
> Look closely at the photo, her lip is twisted up and to the side. He
> is most certainly twisting her nose.
>
> You know, I actually agree with about being sceptical of what you see
> in the tabloids, but you are starting to sound like you really think
> that this is really minor.
>
> Grabbing someone by the throat is an overtly threatening gesture no
> matter how much pressure is applied. It is such an overtly threatening
> gesture that, had he done it to a man, he would most certainly be hit.
>
> JB

Dave seems to think this is akin to Canadian foreplay.

On 6/20/2013 6:06 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 20/06/2013 6:22 AM, JBurns wrote:
>
>> I can't help being envious at how fabulous she looks at 53 even with a
>> puffy tearful face.
>>
>
>
>
> She is a goddess, and if she dumps that jerk there will be a line at her
> door.
>
Canadian abusers need not apply...

On 6/20/2013 9:24 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 20/06/2013 8:01 AM, George Leppla wrote:
>> On 6/20/2013 4:15 AM, JBurns wrote:
>>> You know, I actually agree with about being sceptical of what you see
>>> in the tabloids, but you are starting to sound like you really think
>>> that this is really minor.
>>
>>
>> Ahhh... but you forget that Dave was some kind of "enforcement"
>> professional.
>
>
> Yes I was.

Then why did you recently deny it?

>>
>> Of course, numerous people have asked him to explain exactly what that
>> job was but the silence is defending.
>
>
> I have said in the past what I did in a law enforcement capacity.

Then denied it...

> Someone said that I claimed to have been a cop. I said that I was not a
> cop and never had been.

Yet you have claimed to have written out traffic citations.

> The only person whose post I have seen that
> asked directly was you. Yes. The silence is defending [sic]. If you
> really want to know maybe someone else will tell you.

The only thing that need be known is your friendliness to abusive
behavior against women.

On 6/20/2013 9:35 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 20/06/2013 8:02 AM, George Leppla wrote:
>> On 6/20/2013 5:37 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >So what is the truth, Dave? What job did you have during your
>>>> "years in
>>>> >enforcement"?
>>>> >
>>>> >I seem to remember you posting recently about writing citations for
>>>> bad
>>>> >trucking logs. Were you a cop or not? Share with us the
>>>> experience in
>>>> >"enforcement" that you bring to the table.
>>
>>> Methinks you will wait till hell freezes over!
>>> --
>>
>> Yep. Dave has gone suddenly quiet. I wonder why.
>
> Between a day of yard work, going out for supper, going to bed, going
> out for a 20 mile bicycle right, I haven't posted much on anything. I
> thought I had acknowledged that it did, in fact, turn out to have been a
> case of abuse. I had previously said that I was not prepared to accept
> the dirt being dished out by a British tabloid because they are
> notorious for making mountains out of mole hills.

Yes, you've repeated that obfuscation here ad nauseum.

The photos spoke for themselves.

> I did note that throughout the documented incident, the couple were
> holding hands, and that Nigella did not file a complaint. I also
> acknowledged that in the UK, a caution is a formal process, unlike North
> America, where a caution is an informal warning and nor formally warning.

That's nice, so what?

> Perhaps in the UK there is also a category for a "formal complaint", as
> opposed to a "complaint", but AFAIK no "formal complaint" made is the
> same thing as no complaint made at all.

Do yourself a favor, quit digging holes you can not climb out of.

casa bona > wrote in :

> Canadian abusers need not apply...

Thanks, jerkoff. While you're at it, go **** yourself.

*plonk*

--

Traditions are group efforts to keep the unexpected
from happening.

-- Barbara Tober

On 20/06/2013 12:12 PM, Michel Boucher wrote:
> casa bona > wrote in :
>
>> Canadian abusers need not apply...
>
> Thanks, jerkoff. While you're at it, go **** yourself.
>
> *plonk*
>
Just remember.... if you don't agree with someone or don't /won't
understand... insult. ;-)

On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:50:56 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> Further update:
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Saatchi.html
>
> "has been living in a £10,000 a week Mayfair bolthole"
>
> So she has left him! Excellent!

I can't tell you how glad I am to hear this, thanks!

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 6/20/2013 10:12 AM, Michel Boucher wrote:
> casa bona > wrote in :
>
>> Canadian abusers need not apply...
>
> Thanks, jerkoff. While you're at it, go **** yourself.
>
> *plonk*
>

That was pointed at Dave, not you. But if the shoe seemed to fit...

On 6/20/2013 10:29 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 20/06/2013 12:12 PM, Michel Boucher wrote:
>> casa bona > wrote in :
>>
>>> Canadian abusers need not apply...
>>
>> Thanks, jerkoff. While you're at it, go **** yourself.
>>
>> *plonk*
>>
> Just remember.... if you don't agree with someone or don't /won't
> understand... insult. ;-)

Just remember, when you make up unending excuses for what was clearly
abusive behavior against a woman you're going to get some static.

On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 14:05:46 -0600, casa bona > wrote:

> So why did you post that you used to write traffic citations?

He wrote citations. Did he say anywhere they were citations as in
speeding tickets and unlawful left turns? I don't recall him
qualifying citations with the word "traffic" because it was a specific
type of traffic.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:48:57 -0600, casa bona > wrote:

> On 6/20/2013 10:12 AM, Michel Boucher wrote:
> > casa bona > wrote in :
> >
> >> Canadian abusers need not apply...
> >
> > Thanks, jerkoff. While you're at it, go **** yourself.
> >
> > *plonk*
> >
>
> That was pointed at Dave, not you. But if the shoe seemed to fit...

He's touchy that way... you know how the French are up there in
Quebec.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 6/20/2013 2:15 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 14:05:46 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> So why did you post that you used to write traffic citations?
>
> He wrote citations. Did he say anywhere they were citations as in
> speeding tickets and unlawful left turns? I don't recall him
> qualifying citations with the word "traffic" because it was a specific
> type of traffic.
>
Well shoot, that's a good point. I'd have to go back and re-read the posts.

I guess it's possible he was a meter maid.

On 6/20/2013 2:17 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:48:57 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> On 6/20/2013 10:12 AM, Michel Boucher wrote:
>>> casa bona > wrote in :
>>>
>>>> Canadian abusers need not apply...
>>>
>>> Thanks, jerkoff. While you're at it, go **** yourself.
>>>
>>> *plonk*
>>>
>>
>> That was pointed at Dave, not you. But if the shoe seemed to fit...
>
> He's touchy that way... you know how the French are up there in
> Quebec.
>
Lol, maybe they're having a poutine & fries shortage... ;-)

On 6/20/2013 3:00 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Telling you my exact position is irrelevant. Someone falsely claimed
> that I claimed to have been a cop. I was not a cop and I never claimed
> to have been a cop. I have in the past said what I had done for a
> living. It has nothing to do with the topic. If you are dumb enough to
> think that it has, then you can search the archives and try to find a
> post where I said I had been a cop. I can save you the time and tell you
> that you won't find one. You can use the time saved to come up with a
> cogent argument as to why my former occupation is at all relevant.
>


Let's see.... The discussion is about a man abusing his wife.

Later in the discussion you posted:

"I have said in the past what I did in a law enforcement capacity."

Now you say one has nothing to do with the other. For most normal
people, a person who worked in law enforcement would be expected to
have more experience than say... a plumber.

And in the end, it really doesn't matter. What matters is that when
faced with an example of physical, spousal abuse you made excuses for
the abuser. You blamed it on the press, paparazzi, swollen glands,
allergies... and if you ever expressed any support or sympathy for the
victim, it was overshadowed by your callous attitude.

And that is all I need to know about you.

George L

Law enforcement or not

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On Monday, June 17, 2013 3:46:51 PM UTC-7, Ema Nymton wrote:
> You wonder why a man would mess with a woman who is an expert on using
>
> knives and fire. I also wonder why she puts up with him.
>
>
>
> Tiny URL http://tinyurl.com/lfcpfnh
>




>
>
>
>
> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.1374627
>
>
>
> Becca



On Monday, June 17, 2013 3:46:51 PM UTC-7, Ema Nymton wrote:
> You wonder why a man would mess with a woman who is an expert on using
>
> knives and fire. I also wonder why she puts up with him.
>
>
>
> Tiny URL http://tinyurl.com/lfcpfnh
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.1374627
>
>
>
> Becca



On Monday, June 17, 2013 3:46:51 PM UTC-7, Ema Nymton wrote:
> You wonder why a man would mess with a woman who is an expert on using
>
> knives and fire. I also wonder why she puts up with him.
>
>
>
> Tiny URL http://tinyurl.com/lfcpfnh
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.1374627
>
>
>
> Becca

On 6/20/2013 3:15 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 14:05:46 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> So why did you post that you used to write traffic citations?
>
> He wrote citations. Did he say anywhere they were citations as in
> speeding tickets and unlawful left turns? I don't recall him
> qualifying citations with the word "traffic" because it was a specific
> type of traffic.


Meter Maid? Truck inspector? Truck Scales operator?

Inspection Sticker Licker?


George L

On 20/06/2013 4:17 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:48:57 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>
>> On 6/20/2013 10:12 AM, Michel Boucher wrote:
>>> casa bona > wrote in :
>>>
>>>> Canadian abusers need not apply...
>>>
>>> Thanks, jerkoff. While you're at it, go **** yourself.
>>>
>>> *plonk*
>>>
>>
>> That was pointed at Dave, not you. But if the shoe seemed to fit...
>
> He's touchy that way... you know how the French are up there in
> Quebec.

He is more French than I am, but I plonked the obnoxious twit before he
did.

On 6/20/2013 2:49 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 20/06/2013 4:17 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:48:57 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/20/2013 10:12 AM, Michel Boucher wrote:
>>>> casa bona > wrote in :
>>>>
>>>>> Canadian abusers need not apply...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, jerkoff. While you're at it, go **** yourself.
>>>>
>>>> *plonk*
>>>>
>>>
>>> That was pointed at Dave, not you. But if the shoe seemed to fit...
>>
>> He's touchy that way... you know how the French are up there in
>> Quebec.
>
> He is more French than I am, but I plonked the obnoxious twit before he
> did.
>
So you're saying it _is_ a French thing?

I'm sure Rene Levesque would be so proud of you...

;-)

On 20/06/2013 4:34 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/20/2013 3:00 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> Telling you my exact position is irrelevant. Someone falsely claimed
>> that I claimed to have been a cop. I was not a cop and I never claimed
>> to have been a cop. I have in the past said what I had done for a
>> living. It has nothing to do with the topic. If you are dumb enough to
>> think that it has, then you can search the archives and try to find a
>> post where I said I had been a cop. I can save you the time and tell you
>> that you won't find one. You can use the time saved to come up with a
>> cogent argument as to why my former occupation is at all relevant.
>>
>
>
> Let's see.... The discussion is about a man abusing his wife.
>
> Later in the discussion you posted:
>
> "I have said in the past what I did in a law enforcement capacity."

That was only in response to the false claim about me having been or
having claimed to have been a cop.


> Now you say one has nothing to do with the other. For most normal
> people, a person who worked in law enforcement would be expected to
> have more experience than say... a plumber.

Not in the branch of law enforcement I worked in.


> And in the end, it really doesn't matter.

You're right.

> What matters is that when
> faced with an example of physical, spousal abuse you made excuses for
> the abuser. You blamed it on the press, paparazzi, swollen glands,
> allergies... and if you ever expressed any support or sympathy for the
> victim, it was overshadowed by your callous attitude.
>

What I was faced with was a tabloid report based on photos obtained by
paparazzi who just happened to come along in time to see the incident.
Being prone to publishing sensationalized stories they showed only
stills, though those guy usually have video cameras handy. That would
have shown the context. I have had my hands around my wife's neck, but
never to choke her. I was just things that might possibly have been
misconstrued. I didn't see the look of horror on her face that I might
have expected of someone who was being choked. Combine that with the
fact that she did not file a complaint, which I am sure she would have
done of she thought he had actually been trying to choke her.


I blamed what on the press and the paparazzi?????
I said that they are notorious for sensational stories and manipulating
facts. I was not prepared to pass judgment on anyone in a situation
that is only being reported in tabloids. That may explain why I do not
have an overwhelming fear of UFOs.

On 20/06/2013 4:36 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/20/2013 3:15 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 14:05:46 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
>>
>>> So why did you post that you used to write traffic citations?
>>
>> He wrote citations. Did he say anywhere they were citations as in
>> speeding tickets and unlawful left turns? I don't recall him
>> qualifying citations with the word "traffic" because it was a specific
>> type of traffic.
>
>
> Meter Maid? Truck inspector? Truck Scales operator?
>
> Inspection Sticker Licker?
>
>
I will leave the licking to you George.