On 07/07/2013 11:30 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 7/7/2013 11:04 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 07/07/2013 10:32 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>>>> You just don't get it, do you! This is the American arrogance that I
>>>> have
>>>> come across so often where you expect everything to be the way you do
>>>> things
>>>> back home!
>>>
>>> You see what you want. That's the way it is with people like you.
>
>> No. You see what stands out. There are a lot of them travelling abroad.
>> Odds are that in most places you will see more Americans than travellers
>> from any other single country. Odds are that one or more will take every
>> opportunity to personify the stereotype.
>
> You yourself said that you met many pleasant Americans in your travels.
> Yet you are comfortable insulting most of the people on this newsgroup
> with your stereotyping of all of us.


Yes. I did say that I have met some very pleasant Americans overseas. I
have met lots of great Americans. I have American relatives. I have
spoken in defence of Americans against the stereotypes.

But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.

On 08/07/2013 6:22 PM, gtr wrote:
> On 2013-07-08 15:45:02 +0000, Dave Smith said:
>
>> On 08/07/2013 9:36 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> Ophelia wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Has it occurred to you that the woman sitting IN the
>>>> sink just didn't want to move and gave that story so that she didn't
>>>> have
>>>> to? I man, how often do you see people sitting IN sinks. Julie
>>>> had no way
>>>> to prove otherwise did she? Would you start an argument with some
>>>> loonie
>>>> sitting IN a sink?
>>>
>>> Regardless of whether the sink worked or not, Julie said the bathroom
>>> was
>>> filthy so she wouldn't have used it anyway.
>>
>> No regardless about it or not. It never happened.
>
> You're acting like it's not possible. It is indeed possible. Plumbing,
> despite the name on the building, happens! Taking Bove's word as
> absolute that someone else said, as an absolute, that it "had never
> worked" certainly sounds false. But that running water (in the sink)
> most surely is false: City/County health inspectors would have had to
> okay the restaurant's operation, in myriad ways, before they'd have been
> given a licence. Running water in the bathrooms is VERY HIGH on the list.
>
Not possible????? That a washroom at a McDonalds did not have running
water, that it never had running water? I will grant you that anything
is possible, but this is Bovine saying that there was a girl sitting in
the sink doing her make-up and she said that there was no running water
and never was. I find it really, really, really hard to believe that a
McDs washroom would not have running water. I would of course believe
there was no running water at the time if it happened to be, but we are
talking Julie here, so the implausible is most certainly bullshit.



> Neverthlesss, I've been to fast food chains where the bathrooms had
> neither toilet paper nor soap, nor, on rare occasion, operable hot water
> in the sink. I can't imagine that McDonald's is immue from this.

This was no running water at all and as much as I detest McDs food, i
simply cannot believe there was no running water at all.



> This is
> due to the the idiots that run it, and McDonald's franchises are run by
> the employees of the franchise owners, not the McDonald's board of
> director's nor by "stated policy". Incompetence happen.
>

The claim was not that there was currently no running water but that
there never had been.



> McDonald's diligently maintains consistency in all regards, including
> the "taste" of their foods. Nevertheless, sometimes a franchise fails;
> for the most part it is run by minimum-wage workers. In discussing this
> group of people in topics past I've concluded that some here barely even
> consider them humans. So you'd figure there'd be some wiggle room in
> "perfection".
>

There is not much wiggle room to the claim that there never was running
water. It Bovine shit.

"gtr" > wrote in message news:2013070815223190025-xxx@yyyzzz...
> On 2013-07-08 15:45:02 +0000, Dave Smith said:
>
>> On 08/07/2013 9:36 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> Ophelia wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Has it occurred to you that the woman sitting IN the
>>>> sink just didn't want to move and gave that story so that she didn't
>>>> have
>>>> to? I man, how often do you see people sitting IN sinks. Julie had
>>>> no way
>>>> to prove otherwise did she? Would you start an argument with some
>>>> loonie
>>>> sitting IN a sink?
>>>
>>> Regardless of whether the sink worked or not, Julie said the bathroom
>>> was
>>> filthy so she wouldn't have used it anyway.
>>
>> No regardless about it or not. It never happened.
>
> You're acting like it's not possible. It is indeed possible. Plumbing,
> despite the name on the building, happens! Taking Bove's word as absolute
> that someone else said, as an absolute, that it "had never worked"
> certainly sounds false. But that running water (in the sink) most surely
> is false: City/County health inspectors would have had to okay the
> restaurant's operation, in myriad ways, before they'd have been given a
> licence. Running water in the bathrooms is VERY HIGH on the list.
>
> Neverthlesss, I've been to fast food chains where the bathrooms had
> neither toilet paper nor soap, nor, on rare occasion, operable hot water
> in the sink. I can't imagine that McDonald's is immue from this. This is
> due to the the idiots that run it, and McDonald's franchises are run by
> the employees of the franchise owners, not the McDonald's board of
> director's nor by "stated policy". Incompetence happen.
>
>> McD's, despite the quality of their food, which some people actually
>> like, would not allow a store in the chain that did not have running
>> water in the bathroom.
>
> McDonald's diligently maintains consistency in all regards, including the
> "taste" of their foods. Nevertheless, sometimes a franchise fails; for
> the most part it is run by minimum-wage workers. In discussing this group
> of people in topics past I've concluded that some here barely even
> consider them humans. So you'd figure there'd be some wiggle room in
> "perfection".

There was a situation in the mens room of one of the Staten Island
McDonalds. I don't know why but those bathrooms there were what we call
"one holers". In other words, locking door, one toilet, one sink. An older
drunk man locked himself in the bathroom and proceeded to get sick. He did
this not once but twice! He did come out of his own accord after about a
half an hour and left. Then when the manager on duty went to get a mop and
bucket, the man locked himself in there again. Pretty much everyone in the
place could see and hear this as the man was very noisy. I can remember
people screaming at the manager to get the man out of there. He kept saying
he could not because the door was locked. People told him that he must have
a key. But I think he just preferred to let the police handle it. Which
they eventually did.

I don't think the manager handled the situation well. Men and boys needed
to use the restroom and he kept saying they couldn't because there was a guy
in there. He had refused to allow them to use the ladies room. Finally
some customers took it upon themselves to man the door to the ladies room
letting anyone who needed to use it in. That day it was just me, my mom and
Angela there. My mom wanted to find out how it all played out so we stayed
mainly just to watch. I think they got rid of that manager afterwards. I
never saw him again.

The owner was an older woman and she seemed to do a good job of running the
place when she was there. There had been other times when some woman locked
herself into the bathroom for an extended period of time. I saw the owner
knock on the door and ask if there was a problem and then say that if they
were not out in five minutes, she was coming in with the key.

I really do think they needed more bathrooms in there. Many times I took
Angela in there and being a little kid it could take her a while to do her
business. But people had no patience and would bang on the door and yell at
us. And that doesn't help when you are already kind of skeeved out about
using an unfamiliar toilet.

I also recall one of the McDonald's in Alameda having creepy bathrooms. I
don't know why but they were outside of the entrance. They weren't
particularly filthy but did not give you a feeling of cleanness and they
reminded me more of something you'd see at a campground.

I have probably seen many McDonald's restrooms. During one cross country
move it is the place we stopped for lunch almost daily. So much so that I
grew truly sick of them! We did pack food for the first day and ate at a
rest stop. And we did stop once at a truck stop. But my husband is not one
to veer far from our path on cross country moves. I can't remember which
route we took that time but it was McDonalds after McDonalds and not a whole
heck of a lot more. I don't remember any others being bad but I do remember
one kind of odd one. Had a HUGE restroom with lots of huge tiled stalls.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...


> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.


I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
Stereotypes are there for a reason.

Cheri

On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>
>
> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>


And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>
>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>
>>
>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>
>
>
> And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
> people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.


LOL, ain't that the truth!

Cheri

On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:29:19 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>
>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>
>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>
>And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.

Unfortunately it does. And we have a couple of classic examples of
that in this group.

On 2013-07-08 23:42:01 +0000, Jeßus said:

> On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:29:19 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>>
>>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>>
>> And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>> people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.
>
> Unfortunately it does. And we have a couple of classic examples of
> that in this group.

Wait a minute, by "perpetuate the stereotypes" are all referring to
people who continue to say that blacks are "natural" dancers, the
Polish are stupid and Asians can't drive? That kind of perpetuation?

As for the "stereotype" that Americans and French are arrogant; I think
it should be tempered by the fact that the kind of Americans who are
wealthy enough to travel in France (similarly French tourists in the
US) are likely to be arrogant more from their wealth than their
nationality.

I've personally met a number of arrogant know-it-all Russians,
Italians, Argentinians, Spaniards and Indians, but don't think that
quality was brought on by their national mindset as much as their
money. And then there were the others from these same countries that
were nice folks. I don't think there was a stereotype displayed, but
one tends to find stereotypes where one needs them.

On Monday, July 8, 2013 10:28:32 AM UTC-7, Gary wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Do you make notes as you go along or do you just have a good memory for
>
> > someone who deserves a really good slam? Don't hold back sf, I am sure you
>
> > can do much better.
>
> >
>
> > btw why are you in such a foul mood these days???
>
>
>
> I've noticed a definite lack of social skills with her lately. :-(
>
>
>
> G.

You have to figure that someone that posts here hundreds of times here a month should get out and about more.

On 7/8/2013 5:41 PM, Cheri wrote:
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>>
>>>
>>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>>
>>
>>
>> And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>> people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.
>
>
> LOL, ain't that the truth!
>
> Cheri

A stereotype is a perception, and as such it takes only one person to
perpetuate it - the person who perceives it.

On 7/8/2013 5:50 PM, gtr wrote:
> On 2013-07-08 23:42:01 +0000, Jeßus said:
>
>> On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:29:19 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>>>
>>>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>>>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>>>
>>> And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>>> people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.
>>
>> Unfortunately it does. And we have a couple of classic examples of
>> that in this group.
>
> Wait a minute, by "perpetuate the stereotypes" are all referring to
> people who continue to say that blacks are "natural" dancers, the Polish
> are stupid and Asians can't drive? That kind of perpetuation?
>
> As for the "stereotype" that Americans and French are arrogant; I think
> it should be tempered by the fact that the kind of Americans who are
> wealthy enough to travel in France (similarly French tourists in the US)
> are likely to be arrogant more from their wealth than their nationality.
>
> I've personally met a number of arrogant know-it-all Russians, Italians,
> Argentinians, Spaniards and Indians, but don't think that quality was
> brought on by their national mindset as much as their money. And then
> there were the others from these same countries that were nice folks. I
> don't think there was a stereotype displayed, but one tends to find
> stereotypes where one needs them.
>

Precisely so. As a stereotype is a perception it is born of the mind of
the one perceiving it.

On 2013-07-08 23:09:35 +0000, Dave Smith said:

>> You're acting like it's not possible. It is indeed possible. Plumbing,
>> despite the name on the building, happens! Taking Bove's word as
>> absolute that someone else said, as an absolute, that it "had never
>> worked" certainly sounds false. But that running water (in the sink)
>> most surely is false: City/County health inspectors would have had to
>> okay the restaurant's operation, in myriad ways, before they'd have been
>> given a licence. Running water in the bathrooms is VERY HIGH on the list.
>>
> Not possible????? That a washroom at a McDonalds did not have running
> water, that it never had running water? I will grant you that anything
> is possible,

Good to hear.

> ...but this is Bovine saying that there was a girl sitting in the sink
> doing her make-up and she said that there was no running water and
> never was. I find it really, really, really hard to believe that a
> McDs washroom would not have running water.

Plumbing happens. I can imagine a busted sink fixture might happen for
a day or two, but rule out the "never did" as about as impossible as it
can get. Again: they could not have gotten a licence with out it.
What--did somebody pay off a health department official so they
wouldn't have to have water in the bathrooms? Preposterous.

On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 21:38:11 +0100, Janet > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 09:54:25 -0600, casa bona > wrote:
> >
> > > On 7/8/2013 7:54 AM, Gary wrote:
> > > > graham wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> "sf" > wrote in message
> > > >> ...
> > > >>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 16:34:35 -0600, "graham" > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> And, sadly, more cultural arrogance from you.
> > > >>>> Graham
> > > >>>
> > > >>> And, we're perceiving cultural arrogance from you.
> > > >>>
> > > >> That's because you haven't looked in a mirror lately!
> > > >
> > > > Again I'll say this. When you travel to another country, you should humble
> > > > yourself and adopt their ways while being a guest in their area. You should
> > > > politely accept what they offer. "When in Rome, do like the Romans do."
> > > > This is the way you get along with people from other cultures.
> > >
> > > My but you are remarkably submissive!
> > >
> > > > Travelers/tourists from other countries are ambassadors for their country
> > > > whether they realize it or not. If you act like an asshole in another
> > > > country, it does reflect on your own country.
> > > >
> > > > G.
> > > >
> > > Suppose you exhibit a mannerly divergence from local norms, is that a sin?
> >
> > Want to bet he's never traveled, not even around the USA?
>
> You'd lose. Graham has visited posters (abroad) in another group we
> post to.
>
I wasn't talking about Graham.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 14:59:02 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> Filthy throughout and
> the people in there made us uncomfortable.
>
And yet you chose to patronize it anyway.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 14:59:02 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> Filthy throughout and
>> the people in there made us uncomfortable.
>>
> And yet you chose to patronize it anyway.

No. I didn't choose. As I said, there was a reason. But I can't remember
why now. Most likely I had low blood sugar.

"Janet" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >, says...
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 02:14:31 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Either way, I could not use the sink. So it was unhygienic.
>> >
>> > That is not the restaurant's fault.
>>
>> It is because they allowed it to happen!
>
> To "allow " it, they would have had to know she was there blocking the
> sink.. You said you didn't tell the staff about it.

There was clearly no point. They allowed these sorts of people to be in
there. They weren't in there eating.

"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>
>
> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
> Stereotypes are there for a reason.

What she said.

On 08/07/2013 7:50 PM, gtr wrote:
> On 2013-07-08 23:42:01 +0000, Jeßus said:
>
>> On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:29:19 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>>>
>>>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>>>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>>>
>>> And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>>> people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.
>>
>> Unfortunately it does. And we have a couple of classic examples of
>> that in this group.
>
> Wait a minute, by "perpetuate the stereotypes" are all referring to
> people who continue to say that blacks are "natural" dancers, the Polish
> are stupid and Asians can't drive? That kind of perpetuation?


Well yeah. That is exactly that we are referring to.
It is a stereotype, and then someone from group X demonstrates a
propensity or lack thereof for some train and the stereotype is
reinforced. It doesn't matter if 99% of the members of that group are
the exact opposite.

"Jeßus" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:29:19 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>>On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>>
>>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>>
>>And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>>people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.
>
> Unfortunately it does. And we have a couple of classic examples of
> that in this group.


From more than one country too.

Cheri

"merryb" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, July 8, 2013 10:28:32 AM UTC-7, Gary wrote:
>> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Do you make notes as you go along or do you just have a good memory
>> > for
>>
>> > someone who deserves a really good slam? Don't hold back sf, I am
>> > sure you
>>
>> > can do much better.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > btw why are you in such a foul mood these days???
>>
>>
>>
>> I've noticed a definite lack of social skills with her lately. :-(
>>
>>
>>
>> G.
>
> You have to figure that someone that posts here hundreds of times here a
> month should get out and about more.



Why? Where will you find more entertainment than in newsgroups.

Cheri

"casa bona" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/8/2013 5:41 PM, Cheri wrote:
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>>>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>>> people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.
>>
>>
>> LOL, ain't that the truth!
>>
>> Cheri
>
> A stereotype is a perception, and as such it takes only one person to
> perpetuate it - the person who perceives it.


Not at all. Let's use "busybody" as an example what do you think the
stereotypical "busybody" acts like? :-)

Cheri

On 7/8/2013 7:20 PM, Cheri wrote:
> "casa bona" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 7/8/2013 5:41 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>>>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>>>>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>>>> people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL, ain't that the truth!
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>
>> A stereotype is a perception, and as such it takes only one person to
>> perpetuate it - the person who perceives it.
>
>
> Not at all. Let's use "busybody" as an example what do you think the
> stereotypical "busybody" acts like? :-)
>
> Cheri

OK, that's a term with a very specific behavioral pattern attached to it
- can we really be quite so specific with nationalities and expect to
gain useful insights?

I've always wondered about the stereotype for Japanese tourists, do the
really take that many more photos than any other international tourists?

On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 09:10:01 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:



>
>I've never seen a "filthy" bathroom at McD's either. Julie did say that she
>used the bathroom, she just could not wash her hands there because some sink
>sitting bimbo told her there was no running water, never had been, so she
>used a baby wipe.
>
>Cheri

I did. One time out of many. We were on the way home from a weekend
visiting relatives. We stopped at a McD for a snack for us and the
kids. I went to use the restroom while my wife was in line to order
some food. It was really filthy. Disgustingly filthy. I left and
loudly told my wife we could not eat here because of the rest room. A
few other patrons left too when they heard my description. Employees
certainly were not washing their hands in there.

It was a Sunday night after the normal dinner hour and it was just off
the highway. This was over 25 years ago and the restaurant is till
there and I've not been back since.

I did write to the regional manager but never heard back. I'm sure
this was probably a temporary lapse for some reason as they usually
have decent restrooms no matter the location I've stopped around the
country.

I stopped at a diner for lunch once. Ordered my meal, went to the
restroom and walked out. I've only encountered that a few times, but
it can happen.

On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 17:21:24 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 14:59:02 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Filthy throughout and
> >> the people in there made us uncomfortable.
> >>
> > And yet you chose to patronize it anyway.
>
> No. I didn't choose. As I said, there was a reason. But I can't remember
> why now. Most likely I had low blood sugar.
>

You chose it, because there were lots of other places to eat on Haight
St.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 23:22:59 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> This was over 25 years ago and the restaurant is till
> there and I've not been back since.

Obviously they don't rely on your business.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"casa bona" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/8/2013 7:20 PM, Cheri wrote:
>> "casa bona" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 7/8/2013 5:41 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>>>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>>>>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>>>>>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>>>>> people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL, ain't that the truth!
>>>>
>>>> Cheri
>>>
>>> A stereotype is a perception, and as such it takes only one person to
>>> perpetuate it - the person who perceives it.
>>
>>
>> Not at all. Let's use "busybody" as an example what do you think the
>> stereotypical "busybody" acts like? :-)
>>
>> Cheri
>
> OK, that's a term with a very specific behavioral pattern attached to it -
> can we really be quite so specific with nationalities and expect to gain
> useful insights?
>
> I've always wondered about the stereotype for Japanese tourists, do the
> really take that many more photos than any other international tourists?

I certainly can't speak for all of them but the ones I've seen on the ferry
boats were stereotypical.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 17:21:24 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 14:59:02 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Filthy throughout and
>> >> the people in there made us uncomfortable.
>> >>
>> > And yet you chose to patronize it anyway.
>>
>> No. I didn't choose. As I said, there was a reason. But I can't
>> remember
>> why now. Most likely I had low blood sugar.
>>
>
> You chose it, because there were lots of other places to eat on Haight
> St.

No. I did not choose it. I would never choose to go to McDs. My husband
was driving. And when he is driving there are no choices for the rest of
us.

On 2013-07-08 23:58:28 +0000, casa bona said:

> On 7/8/2013 5:50 PM, gtr wrote:
>> On 2013-07-08 23:42:01 +0000, Jeßus said:
>>
>>> On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:29:19 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/07/2013 7:18 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> But..... there are still a number of Americans who personify the
>>>>>> stereotypes. Sorry, but you can't deny that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I pretty much think that can be said for people from all countries.
>>>>> Stereotypes are there for a reason.
>>>>>
>>>> And the unfortunate part is that it only takes a very small number of
>>>> people from a country to perpetuate the negative stereotypes.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately it does. And we have a couple of classic examples of
>>> that in this group.
>>
>> Wait a minute, by "perpetuate the stereotypes" are all referring to
>> people who continue to say that blacks are "natural" dancers, the Polish
>> are stupid and Asians can't drive? That kind of perpetuation?
>>
>> As for the "stereotype" that Americans and French are arrogant; I think
>> it should be tempered by the fact that the kind of Americans who are
>> wealthy enough to travel in France (similarly French tourists in the US)
>> are likely to be arrogant more from their wealth than their nationality.
>>
>> I've personally met a number of arrogant know-it-all Russians, Italians,
>> Argentinians, Spaniards and Indians, but don't think that quality was
>> brought on by their national mindset as much as their money. And then
>> there were the others from these same countries that were nice folks. I
>> don't think there was a stereotype displayed, but one tends to find
>> stereotypes where one needs them.
>>
>
> Precisely so. As a stereotype is a perception it is born of the mind
> of the one perceiving it.

And in fairness, propagated in this way. Most of the racists and
anti-semites I've known were the children of racists and anti-semites
when I poked around in their histories.

On 2013-07-09 00:50:43 +0000, Dave Smith said:

>> Wait a minute, by "perpetuate the stereotypes" are all referring to
>> people who continue to say that blacks are "natural" dancers, the Polish
>> are stupid and Asians can't drive? That kind of perpetuation?
>
>
> Well yeah. That is exactly that we are referring to.
> It is a stereotype, and then someone from group X demonstrates a
> propensity or lack thereof for some train and the stereotype is
> reinforced. It doesn't matter if 99% of the members of that group are
> the exact opposite

You seem to have merrily missed my point. X demonstrating anyting, or
nothing at all isn't quite the same thing as people telling jokes or
repeating myths that they demonstrate such characteristics. That's the
difference between (percieved) reality, and jabber. Two very different
things.

In article <201307081650454589-xxx@yyyzzz>, says...

> As for the "stereotype" that Americans and French are arrogant; I think
> it should be tempered by the fact that the kind of Americans who are
> wealthy enough to travel in France (similarly French tourists in the
> US) are likely to be arrogant more from their wealth than their
> nationality.

Not really, because from Europe, the USA is not an expensive
destination (or flight) and people don't need to be wealthy to afford
leisure travel there.

Janet UK

In article >, says...
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 17:21:24 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "sf" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 14:59:02 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Filthy throughout and
> >> >> the people in there made us uncomfortable.
> >> >>
> >> > And yet you chose to patronize it anyway.
> >>
> >> No. I didn't choose. As I said, there was a reason. But I can't
> >> remember
> >> why now. Most likely I had low blood sugar.
> >>
> >
> > You chose it, because there were lots of other places to eat on Haight
> > St.
>
> No. I did not choose it. I would never choose to go to McDs. My husband
> was driving. And when he is driving there are no choices for the rest of
> us.

Well, that's funny. Only one post ago you couldn't remember the
reason you went there. Now we know, yet again your husband is to blame
for everything.

Janet

Janet.

In article >, says...
>
> "Janet" > wrote in message
> t...
> > In article >, says...
> >>
> >> "sf" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 02:14:31 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Either way, I could not use the sink. So it was unhygienic.
> >> >
> >> > That is not the restaurant's fault.
> >>
> >> It is because they allowed it to happen!
> >
> > To "allow " it, they would have had to know she was there blocking the
> > sink.. You said you didn't tell the staff about it.
>
> There was clearly no point. They allowed these sorts of people to be in
> there. They weren't in there eating.

You and your husband are also the sort of people they allow in, and
you've already said, even the staff objected to his behaviour there
despite being used to "those sorts of people".

Janet UK

On Tue, 9 Jul 2013 10:01:04 +0100, Janet > wrote:

>In article <201307081650454589-xxx@yyyzzz>, says...
>
>> As for the "stereotype" that Americans and French are arrogant; I think
>> it should be tempered by the fact that the kind of Americans who are
>> wealthy enough to travel in France (similarly French tourists in the
>> US) are likely to be arrogant more from their wealth than their
>> nationality.
>
> Not really, because from Europe, the USA is not an expensive
>destination (or flight) and people don't need to be wealthy to afford
>leisure travel there.
>
> Janet UK


Boston to Rome is about $1300US per person. round trip. Paris is
about $100 less. Are you saying that it is cheaper to buy a ticket in
Europe from Rome to Boston?

BTW, I paid half that about 5 years ago, about 60% of that four years
ago, and at those prices may not go again..

On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 21:55:51 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 23:22:59 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> This was over 25 years ago and the restaurant is till
>> there and I've not been back since.
>
>Obviously they don't rely on your business.


And they probably cleaned up their act. That sort of thing can
happen, but it is not the norm for any franchise.

OTOH, I've walked out of places for one reason or another and they did
go out of business. That is what happens when you ignore the customer
needs or otherwise don't run your business properly.

"Janet" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >, says...
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 17:21:24 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> "sf" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 14:59:02 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Filthy throughout and
>> >> >> the people in there made us uncomfortable.
>> >> >>
>> >> > And yet you chose to patronize it anyway.
>> >>
>> >> No. I didn't choose. As I said, there was a reason. But I can't
>> >> remember
>> >> why now. Most likely I had low blood sugar.
>> >>
>> >
>> > You chose it, because there were lots of other places to eat on Haight
>> > St.
>>
>> No. I did not choose it. I would never choose to go to McDs. My
>> husband
>> was driving. And when he is driving there are no choices for the rest of
>> us.
>
> Well, that's funny. Only one post ago you couldn't remember the
> reason you went there. Now we know, yet again your husband is to blame
> for everything.

No... You just freaking twist everything I say! I said there was some
reason why we went there. And I said that I didn't remember what it was but
I thought perhaps I was having low blood sugar. If you are diabetic or have
reactive hypoglycemia, you do need to eat when this happens. And you don't
always have a choice of where that would be. You either eat what you have
with you or find something ASAP. I can't say for sure that this was the
reason but it may well have been. Because for about a year when we lived in
CA, I was hyperthyroid and because of this, my blood sugar would frequently
plummet and if I didn't eat, I would pass out. And no, I wasn't driving
much at all during that period of time. If I did drive, I had to eat a meal
immediately before and have something ready to eat as soon as I got home,
even if it was a quick trip to the grocery store that was maybe a mile away.

This was at least 10 years ago so I don't remember all of the details but I
do remember the woman in the sink and the other odd balls in there. And
yes, my husband was driving. And no, I don't know where stuff is in San
Francisco and I don't know what all else was available there at that time
but having a young child at that time we did have parameters as to where we
would go to eat. I really can't remember any more than that. But I can
tell you that McD's would *never* be my first choice of a destination for
anything! Except perhaps for when they used to have certain specific toys
that I liked. They used to advertise the toys on TV. I don't think they do
any more. Or if they do, I haven't seen them.

People here are making a super big deal about this! My response was about
McD's having clean bathrooms. I said that they were not all clean. And
they're not.

"Janet" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >, says...
>>
>> "Janet" > wrote in message
>> t...
>> > In article >, says...
>> >>
>> >> "sf" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 02:14:31 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Either way, I could not use the sink. So it was unhygienic.
>> >> >
>> >> > That is not the restaurant's fault.
>> >>
>> >> It is because they allowed it to happen!
>> >
>> > To "allow " it, they would have had to know she was there blocking the
>> > sink.. You said you didn't tell the staff about it.
>>
>> There was clearly no point. They allowed these sorts of people to be in
>> there. They weren't in there eating.
>
> You and your husband are also the sort of people they allow in, and
> you've already said, even the staff objected to his behaviour there
> despite being used to "those sorts of people".

No. That is not what I said at all. He commented on their prices which
were much higher than the prices in Alameda. And they replied with some
kind of nasty remark. Nobody commented on his behavior and I don't recall
him doing anything at all in there that could have been commented on. I
also remember having to ask for a straw or a napkin or something that would
normally be put out self serve but was not there. Maybe it was even a fork!
I can't remember. But I do remember them getting nasty about it when we had
to ask for it because we needed it and it wasn't given to us.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 21:55:51 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 23:22:59 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> This was over 25 years ago and the restaurant is till
>>> there and I've not been back since.
>>
>>Obviously they don't rely on your business.
>
>
> And they probably cleaned up their act. That sort of thing can
> happen, but it is not the norm for any franchise.
>
> OTOH, I've walked out of places for one reason or another and they did
> go out of business. That is what happens when you ignore the customer
> needs or otherwise don't run your business properly.

I think by far the filthiest eating place I have ever seen was the McDonalds
that used to be at the military commissary in Smokey Point. It was not a
full service one. It was very small and had a limited menu. Next to it was
a Subway. I think the Subway wasn't too bad because nothing was self serve.
But the McDonalds? They had a counter with the drink machines, napkins,
flatware, etc. Soda was spilled all over. All over the counter, the floor,
looked like someone made a lame attempt at sopping it up by throwing some
napkins down but that only seemed to make it look worse. There was a ton of
soda. As in a pool of it! There was a shared eating area with a very few
tables and they were all a sloppy mess. The garbage can was also
overflowing.

We did not get anything from there. We did get the ill fated salads at the
Subway. I attempted to order them and the guy behind the counter didn't
even know that they sold salads. I then pointed to a picture of some salad
that was printed on a cardboard thing that was hung by a string above the
counter. He looked at it, dumbfounded and said they didn't have it. Maybe
some Subways did but they did not. Perhaps this wasn't full serve either
but I can't see why they would advertise something they did not sell. I
then pointed to the menu on the wall and showed him where the salad was
listed. I wasn't sure what all was supposed to go on the salad and neither
was he. So I just picked from the sandwich toppings he had. The end result
was inedible. I think the toppings had sat out for a very long time.
Vegetables all mushy and the olive juice that got slopped on there didn't
help.

Thankfully there are no more food places there. I suspect what happened was
that some parents just let their kids run wild there. Perhaps while they
were shopping. Or maybe they were staying in the Navy Lodge and let the
kids walk over there. I would think that adults would not make that kind of
mess! Especially military ones. But... I well remember seeing how some
military parents did let their kids run loose. Like at potlucks or the
family cruise that we took on the ship where my husband was stationed. The
ship broke down while we were out to sea and they had to do a repair. The
kids were getting restless so parents just turned some of them loose in the
galley where they had a self serve soft serve ice cream machine, soda
machines and an endless supply of cookies. The kids stuffed themselves with
this stuff and then came pinging onto the deck like they had been shot out
of a cannon. It was not pleasant!

In article >,
says...
>
> On Tue, 9 Jul 2013 10:01:04 +0100, Janet > wrote:
>
> >In article <201307081650454589-xxx@yyyzzz>, says...
> >
> >> As for the "stereotype" that Americans and French are arrogant; I think
> >> it should be tempered by the fact that the kind of Americans who are
> >> wealthy enough to travel in France (similarly French tourists in the
> >> US) are likely to be arrogant more from their wealth than their
> >> nationality.
> >
> > Not really, because from Europe, the USA is not an expensive
> >destination (or flight) and people don't need to be wealthy to afford
> >leisure travel there.
> >
> > Janet UK
>
>
> Boston to Rome is about $1300 US per person. round trip. Paris is
> about $100 less. Are you saying that it is cheaper to buy a ticket in
> Europe from Rome to Boston?

Just looked. For $1292 us dollars I could buy a 7 night holiday in
Florida from Glasgow, including return flights, hotel and car hire.

I can buy a return flight inc all taxes from Rome to Boston and back for
£778 UKP which is 1156 USD.

or, I could buy a bucket-shop flight from Rome to Glasgow for £27 ,
and a return ticket Glasgow to Boston for £457, total 484, which is
only $680 USD all together.

A weekend shopping trip Glasgow to Boston which includes return
flight, taxes, transfers and hotel costs about £550 ($870) .. very
popular for Christmas shopping (much cheaper prices in US, than in UK,
because of tax differences).

It's these last-minute and cheap package deals which make travel so
cheap for Europeans; plus the fact workers here have longer holidays
than you so more choice of cheap travel periods. And your gas, food and
shopping taxes are so low compared to ours.

Janet UK

On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 06:11:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Jul 2013 10:01:04 +0100, Janet > wrote:
>
> >In article <201307081650454589-xxx@yyyzzz>, says...
> >
> >> As for the "stereotype" that Americans and French are arrogant; I think
> >> it should be tempered by the fact that the kind of Americans who are
> >> wealthy enough to travel in France (similarly French tourists in the
> >> US) are likely to be arrogant more from their wealth than their
> >> nationality.
> >
> > Not really, because from Europe, the USA is not an expensive
> >destination (or flight) and people don't need to be wealthy to afford
> >leisure travel there.
> >
> > Janet UK
>
>
> Boston to Rome is about $1300US per person. round trip. Paris is
> about $100 less. Are you saying that it is cheaper to buy a ticket in
> Europe from Rome to Boston?
>
> BTW, I paid half that about 5 years ago, about 60% of that four years
> ago, and at those prices may not go again..

Airlines in Europe might be subsidized by their governments. When DD
worked in Dublin a few years ago, she could fly to destinations in
Europe for less than $50. $25 seemed to be the norm on Ryan Air.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 06:14:49 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 21:55:51 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 23:22:59 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >
> >> This was over 25 years ago and the restaurant is till
> >> there and I've not been back since.
> >
> >Obviously they don't rely on your business.
>
>
> And they probably cleaned up their act. That sort of thing can
> happen, but it is not the norm for any franchise.

Ed, I live here and she loves to bring up anything SF related for my
benefit.
>
> OTOH, I've walked out of places for one reason or another and they did
> go out of business. That is what happens when you ignore the customer
> needs or otherwise don't run your business properly.

It was 10 years ago and you know how she exaggerates everything
anyway. There are plenty of other places to choose from in that area
if the standards aren't up to snuff.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.