After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
>
> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!

I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now I see
that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has lots of meat
and cream. I just prefer lighter sauces like Marinara.

sf wrote:

> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!

One can make lasagne as oen wants, but the first recognisez lasagne are the
bolognese lasagne, where every layyer is made of soft-wheat egg noodles,
then ragu' alla bolognese then bechamel and then grana style cheese
(parmigiano reggiano usually). All the other lasagne are variants of this
dish and can be very different, like using ricotta or mozzarella in lasagne:
in Emilia Romagna, Bologna's region, nobody never used ricotta or mozzarella
in lasagne until the last 30 years or so thanks to immigration from southern
Italy, but even today if you ask a person from Emilia over 40 years of age
what he/she thinks about mozzarella in lasagne he/she'll tell you that it is
intimately wrong, terribly wrong, terribly not lasagne. I have no issue with
people calling lasagne their dish of no-egg noodles, tomato sauce and
mozzarella, I just laugh at them

PS bolognese sauce is a meat based sauce with so little tomato that it
imparts just the *color*, many people in southern italy calls bolognese
sauce their 90% tomato based sauces and brougth this habitude with them
every where they emigrated, be careful. In a gallon of ragu' alla bolognese
you get just a few grams of tomato concentrated paste, and that's all,
really. Screw the cooks from Calabria or Puglia calling bolognese a tomatoey
concotion of theirs.
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

On 7/29/2013 12:46 AM, sf wrote:
>
> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!
>


I've always use a bechemel on the bottom layer and a ragu on the upper
layers. I got this tip from watching a Gilda De Laurentius recipe.

My Ragu has zuchinni and pancetta in it. i usually sweat the onion and
garlic and pancetta first before adding the remaining ingredients.

I never use diary in mine except for a hint a paramasean maybe. Many
Bolognese recipes call form some form of milk or cream I beleive but i
may be wrong.

In article >,
says...
>
> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!

If I'm making it for lasagne it's minced beef cooked with garlic,
herbs and tomatoes, seasoning.

If I'm making it for spaghetti or pasta it's minced beef cooked with
finely chopped onions and celery, finely grated carrot, garlic, herbs,
bayleaf, seasoning, tomato paste and and considerably more tomatoes
(sorry Vilco). If my husband's making it he also adds sliced mushrooms.

Janet UK

Hench wrote:

> I never use diary in mine except for a hint a paramasean maybe. Many
> Bolognese recipes call form some form of milk or cream I beleive but i
> may be wrong.

It's for the ragu', in the final setup it's just noodles, ragu', bechamel
and grated grana-style cheese
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
>
>> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
>> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
>> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
>> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
>> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!
>
> One can make lasagne as oen wants, but the first recognisez lasagne are
> the bolognese lasagne, where every layyer is made of soft-wheat egg
> noodles, then ragu' alla bolognese then bechamel and then grana style
> cheese (parmigiano reggiano usually). All the other lasagne are variants
> of this dish and can be very different, like using ricotta or mozzarella
> in lasagne: in Emilia Romagna, Bologna's region, nobody never used ricotta
> or mozzarella in lasagne until the last 30 years or so thanks to
> immigration from southern Italy, but even today if you ask a person from
> Emilia over 40 years of age what he/she thinks about mozzarella in lasagne
> he/she'll tell you that it is intimately wrong, terribly wrong, terribly
> not lasagne. I have no issue with people calling lasagne their dish of
> no-egg noodles, tomato sauce and mozzarella, I just laugh at them
>
> PS bolognese sauce is a meat based sauce with so little tomato that it
> imparts just the *color*, many people in southern italy calls bolognese
> sauce their 90% tomato based sauces and brougth this habitude with them
> every where they emigrated, be careful. In a gallon of ragu' alla
> bolognese you get just a few grams of tomato concentrated paste, and
> that's all, really. Screw the cooks from Calabria or Puglia calling
> bolognese a tomatoey concotion of theirs.

lol I use Ricotta too <hides> but I don't use much tomato

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 7/29/2013 3:43 AM, ViLco wrote:
> sf wrote:
>
>> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
>> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
>> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
>> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
>> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!
>
> One can make lasagne as oen wants, but the first recognisez lasagne are the
> bolognese lasagne, where every layyer is made of soft-wheat egg noodles,
> then ragu' alla bolognese then bechamel and then grana style cheese
> (parmigiano reggiano usually). All the other lasagne are variants of this
> dish and can be very different, like using ricotta or mozzarella in lasagne:
> in Emilia Romagna, Bologna's region, nobody never used ricotta or mozzarella
> in lasagne until the last 30 years or so thanks to immigration from southern
> Italy, but even today if you ask a person from Emilia over 40 years of age
> what he/she thinks about mozzarella in lasagne he/she'll tell you that it is
> intimately wrong, terribly wrong, terribly not lasagne. I have no issue with
> people calling lasagne their dish of no-egg noodles, tomato sauce and
> mozzarella, I just laugh at them

I have NEVER made lasagne with bechamel sauce. Noodles, a hearty, chunky
tomato based sauce that includes meat (ground sausage, ground beef) and
the "white" layer is a combination of ricotta, a little shredded
mozzerela, parsley and other herbs.

Of course, I learned to make this from Sicilians so it is only one
variation out of what appears to be many..... but it is the one I grew
up with so stands to reason it is my favorite.

George L

"George Leppla" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/29/2013 3:43 AM, ViLco wrote:
>> sf wrote:
>>
>>> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
>>> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
>>> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
>>> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
>>> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!
>>
>> One can make lasagne as oen wants, but the first recognisez lasagne are
>> the
>> bolognese lasagne, where every layyer is made of soft-wheat egg noodles,
>> then ragu' alla bolognese then bechamel and then grana style cheese
>> (parmigiano reggiano usually). All the other lasagne are variants of this
>> dish and can be very different, like using ricotta or mozzarella in
>> lasagne:
>> in Emilia Romagna, Bologna's region, nobody never used ricotta or
>> mozzarella
>> in lasagne until the last 30 years or so thanks to immigration from
>> southern
>> Italy, but even today if you ask a person from Emilia over 40 years of
>> age
>> what he/she thinks about mozzarella in lasagne he/she'll tell you that it
>> is
>> intimately wrong, terribly wrong, terribly not lasagne. I have no issue
>> with
>> people calling lasagne their dish of no-egg noodles, tomato sauce and
>> mozzarella, I just laugh at them
>
> I have NEVER made lasagne with bechamel sauce. Noodles, a hearty, chunky
> tomato based sauce that includes meat (ground sausage, ground beef) and
> the "white" layer is a combination of ricotta, a little shredded
> mozzerela, parsley and other herbs.
>
> Of course, I learned to make this from Sicilians so it is only one
> variation out of what appears to be many..... but it is the one I grew up
> with so stands to reason it is my favorite.

I made my last with Ricotta and while it was ok ... back to the bechamel for
me next time. The others said it was great and they polished it all off,
but well ... I do the cooking <g>

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 7/29/13 1:05 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
>> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
>> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
>> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
>> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!
>
> I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now I see
> that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has lots of meat
> and cream....

There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.

-- Larry

On 7/29/13 8:34 AM, George Leppla wrote:

> I have NEVER made lasagne with bechamel sauce. Noodles, a hearty, chunky
> tomato based sauce that includes meat (ground sausage, ground beef) and
> the "white" layer is a combination of ricotta, a little shredded
> mozzerela, parsley and other herbs.

Exactly. Plus some grated Parmesan. This is the combination that is
printed on the packages of many brands of lasagne pasta.

-- Larry

pltrgyst wrote:

>> I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now
>> I see that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has
>> lots of meat and cream....

> There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.

There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left overnight
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

On 2013-07-29, pltrgyst > wrote:

> printed on the packages of many brands of lasagne pasta.

Printed in English, no doubt.

nb

"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> pltrgyst wrote:
>
>>> I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now
>>> I see that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has
>>> lots of meat and cream....
>
>> There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.
>
> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left overnight

Point to a recipe for your bolognese sauce too please???

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

notbob wrote:

>> printed on the packages of many brands of lasagne pasta.

> Printed in English, no doubt.


--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

Ophelia wrote:

>> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left
>> overnight

> Point to a recipe for your bolognese sauce too please???

Cream is involved in the offical recipe deposited by Accademia Italiana
della Cucina in Bologna, this is the one I usually follow and I sometimes
use cream instead of milk (Note: i don't weigh anything):

Ingredients for 4 persons:

- 300 g beef "cartella" (*)
- 150 g pancetta (unsmoked seasoned bacon)
- 50 g carrots
- 50 g celery
- 50 g onion
- 5 spoonfuls of tomato sauce ot 20 g triple concentrated tomato puree'
- half a glass (10cc) of red or white wine
- 200 g whole fresh milk

(*) Cartella: a cut from the cow's or ox' belly, partly fat

Instructions:
Thinly slice and mince the pancetta and melt it in a skillet, eventually use
oil if there isn't enough fat. Add the
vegetables well minced and let them slowly wither. Add the ground meat and
let it go until it start sizzling, then add the wine and the tomato, some
water to have the right consistency and cover. let go over very low fire for
circa 2 hours, adding salt and black pepper.
Optional but traditional and very nice is the addition of the cream
surfacing overnight from a liter of whole milk.

BTW, milk is the main difference between bolognese ragu' and ragu' made in
nearby counties. Where I live, 60 km west of Bologna, milk in ragu' is
unusual.
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 10:43:33 +0200, "ViLco" > wrote:

> PS bolognese sauce is a meat based sauce with so little tomato that it
> imparts just the *color*, many people in southern italy calls bolognese
> sauce their 90% tomato based sauces and brougth this habitude with them
> every where they emigrated, be careful. In a gallon of ragu' alla bolognese
> you get just a few grams of tomato concentrated paste, and that's all,
> really. Screw the cooks from Calabria or Puglia calling bolognese a tomatoey
> concotion of theirs.

That illustrates perfectly what I meant in another thread about how
Italians can't agree about how to make anything. Our Italian
population, at least originally, came mainly from the South so our
version of Italian food has tomatoes and lots of them in most cases.
The bolognese sauce I'm thinking of has just a little tomato paste,
some wine and some milk in it and takes hours to make. That's why I
asked what other people call bolognese. I call tomato sauce with meat
in it "meat sauce", but it was made clear to me in another thread that
others call any old tomato sauce with meat in it "bolognese".

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 07:34:39 -0500, George Leppla
> wrote:

> I have NEVER made lasagne with bechamel sauce. Noodles, a hearty, chunky
> tomato based sauce that includes meat (ground sausage, ground beef) and
> the "white" layer is a combination of ricotta, a little shredded
> mozzerela, parsley and other herbs.
>
> Of course, I learned to make this from Sicilians so it is only one
> variation out of what appears to be many..... but it is the one I grew
> up with so stands to reason it is my favorite.

One of these days, I want to make a Stouffer's style vegetable lasagna
that's made with a cheesy white sauce (I refuse to call it "mornay").
The reason why I called it "Stouffer's style" is because I like their
vegetable lasagna concept, except it's too salty and IMO needs more
parm, romano, grana (whatever) flavor to it. Of course, I'd use a no
boil noodle or fresh sheets because I don't like thick layers of pasta
anymore.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 29 Jul 2013 13:42:27 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2013-07-29, pltrgyst > wrote:
>
> > printed on the packages of many brands of lasagne pasta.
>
> Printed in English, no doubt.
>
You got a problem with that?


--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>>> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left
>>> overnight
>
>> Point to a recipe for your bolognese sauce too please???
>
> Cream is involved in the offical recipe deposited by Accademia Italiana
> della Cucina in Bologna, this is the one I usually follow and I sometimes
> use cream instead of milk (Note: i don't weigh anything):
>
> Ingredients for 4 persons:
>
> - 300 g beef "cartella" (*)
> - 150 g pancetta (unsmoked seasoned bacon)
> - 50 g carrots
> - 50 g celery
> - 50 g onion
> - 5 spoonfuls of tomato sauce ot 20 g triple concentrated tomato puree'
> - half a glass (10cc) of red or white wine
> - 200 g whole fresh milk
>
> (*) Cartella: a cut from the cow's or ox' belly, partly fat
>
> Instructions:
> Thinly slice and mince the pancetta and melt it in a skillet, eventually
> use oil if there isn't enough fat. Add the
> vegetables well minced and let them slowly wither. Add the ground meat and
> let it go until it start sizzling, then add the wine and the tomato, some
> water to have the right consistency and cover. let go over very low fire
> for circa 2 hours, adding salt and black pepper.
> Optional but traditional and very nice is the addition of the cream
> surfacing overnight from a liter of whole milk.
>
> BTW, milk is the main difference between bolognese ragu' and ragu' made in
> nearby counties. Where I live, 60 km west of Bologna, milk in ragu' is
> unusual.

Thanks very much for that!!!! <saved> ))

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 16:05:11 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> "ViLco" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > BTW, milk is the main difference between bolognese ragu' and ragu' made in
> > nearby counties. Where I live, 60 km west of Bologna, milk in ragu' is
> > unusual.
>
> Thanks very much for that!!!! <saved> ))
>
Marcella Hazan came from Cesenatico (which is near Bologna), and she
puts milk in hers

http://leitesculinaria.com/84057/rec...ese-sauce.html

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 7/29/13 10:07 AM, ViLco wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>
>>> printed on the packages of many brands of lasagne pasta.
>
>> Printed in English, no doubt.
>
>

Of course. The US is an English-speaking nation (sort of). 8

-- Larry

pltrgyst wrote:
>
> On 7/29/13 8:34 AM, George Leppla wrote:
>
> > I have NEVER made lasagne with bechamel sauce. Noodles, a hearty, chunky
> > tomato based sauce that includes meat (ground sausage, ground beef) and
> > the "white" layer is a combination of ricotta, a little shredded
> > mozzerela, parsley and other herbs.
>
> Exactly. Plus some grated Parmesan. This is the combination that is
> printed on the packages of many brands of lasagne pasta.

The first time I made lasagna many years ago, I used the recipe on the back
of the San Giorgio lasagna noodles box. It was so good, I've never looked
for another. That's what I'll be making next weekend.

G.

ViLco wrote:
>
> pltrgyst wrote:
>
> >> I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now
> >> I see that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has
> >> lots of meat and cream....
>
> > There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.
>
> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left overnight

Only if you can get non homogenized milk, something that is pretty rare
in the US.

On 7/29/2013 4:43 AM, ViLco wrote:

> One can make lasagne as oen wants, but the first recognisez lasagne are the
> bolognese lasagne, where every layyer is made of soft-wheat egg noodles,
> then ragu' alla bolognese then bechamel and then grana style cheese
> (parmigiano reggiano usually). All the other lasagne are variants of this
> dish and can be very different, like using ricotta or mozzarella in lasagne:
> in Emilia Romagna, Bologna's region, nobody never used ricotta or mozzarella
> in lasagne until the last 30 years or so thanks to immigration from southern
> Italy, but even today if you ask a person from Emilia over 40 years of age
> what he/she thinks about mozzarella in lasagne he/she'll tell you that it is
> intimately wrong, terribly wrong, terribly not lasagne.

I've tried so many versions of lasagna mostly because it's my favorite
dish ever. Growing up, my mom made the most awesome homemade sauce from
tomatoes out of the garden, but her lasagna was made with low fat
cottage cheese. I absolutely loved it. Once I started cooking on my
own and seeing recipes for it, I realized that's Americanized from the
70s I guess, and only to reduce fat or something. The way I figure it
is that lasagna is not something I eat many times a year, so I'm going
all out when I make it.

I like it made with a bechamel, but I've never done a bolognese like you
described. It's now on my to-do list.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 7/29/13 5:47 PM, Christine Dabney wrote:

>> Only if you can get non homogenized milk, something that is pretty rare
>> in the US.
>
> One can find it pretty readily at places like Trader Joes, and Whole
> Foods. They have cream-topped milk.

Not here in VA.

-- Larry

Pete C. wrote:

>> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left
>> overnight

> Only if you can get non homogenized milk, something that is pretty
> rare in the US.

It was hard to find here too then, 5 or 6 years ago, these raw milk stalls
started poppin' up everywhere and the milk they sell is not homogenized and
not pasteurised, get the whole raw milk and that's the real deal
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

Cheryl wrote:

> I've tried so many versions of lasagna mostly because it's my favorite
> dish ever. Growing up, my mom made the most awesome homemade sauce
> from tomatoes out of the garden, but her lasagna was made with low fat
> cottage cheese. I absolutely loved it. Once I started cooking on my
> own and seeing recipes for it, I realized that's Americanized from the
> 70s I guess, and only to reduce fat or something. The way I figure it
> is that lasagna is not something I eat many times a year, so I'm going
> all out when I make it.
>
> I like it made with a bechamel, but I've never done a bolognese like
> you described. It's now on my to-do list.

I'd love to be able to airmail lasagna servings, my ones and the ones from
La Vecia Bulàgna, a restaurant in Bologna whos' renowned for their lasagne

--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

ViLco wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
>
> >> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left
> >> overnight
>
> > Only if you can get non homogenized milk, something that is pretty
> > rare in the US.
>
> It was hard to find here too then, 5 or 6 years ago, these raw milk stalls
> started poppin' up everywhere and the milk they sell is not homogenized and
> not pasteurised, get the whole raw milk and that's the real deal

Raw milk is mostly illegal to sell here. There is a vocal minority who
thinks it's the greatest thing around, much like the kooks who still
believe the phony vaccine-autism claims, but there seem to be sufficient
illness outbreaks connected to raw milk to prove them wrong.

Pete C. wrote:

>> It was hard to find here too then, 5 or 6 years ago, these raw milk
>> stalls started poppin' up everywhere and the milk they sell is not
>> homogenized and not pasteurised, get the whole raw milk and that's
>> the real deal

> Raw milk is mostly illegal to sell here. There is a vocal minority who
> thinks it's the greatest thing around, much like the kooks who still
> believe the phony vaccine-autism claims, but there seem to be
> sufficient illness outbreaks connected to raw milk to prove them
> wrong.

Controls is all you need to have safety, as for any other food.
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:45:50 AM UTC-4, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Raw milk is mostly illegal to sell here. There is a vocal minority who
> thinks it's the greatest thing around, much like the kooks who still
> believe the phony vaccine-autism claims, but there seem to be sufficient
> illness outbreaks connected to raw milk to prove them wrong.

Obtaining raw milk cheese has become very difficult
because of the regulations. Unfortunately, using raw
milk makes a big difference.

http://www.richardfisher.com

In article >, says...
>
> On 7/29/13 1:05 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
> > "sf" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
> >> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
> >> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
> >> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
> >> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!
> >
> > I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now I see
> > that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has lots of meat
> > and cream....
>
> There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.
>
> -- Larry

No but there can be a little bit of milk. I've made a number of
varieties but the one with the mirepoix and milk is the best one.

On 7/29/2013 5:34 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> ViLco wrote:
>>
>> pltrgyst wrote:
>>
>>>> I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now
>>>> I see that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has
>>>> lots of meat and cream....
>>
>>> There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.
>>
>> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left overnight
>
> Only if you can get non homogenized milk, something that is pretty rare
> in the US.
>
Is that what is called "raw milk"?

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 7/30/2013 8:45 AM, Pete C. wrote:

> Raw milk is mostly illegal to sell here. There is a vocal minority who
> thinks it's the greatest thing around, much like the kooks who still
> believe the phony vaccine-autism claims, but there seem to be sufficient
> illness outbreaks connected to raw milk to prove them wrong.

Ah, that answers my raw milk question. I've seen people on local web
forums here asking if anyone knows where to get raw milk but I've never
seen it answered. I figure it's illegal and if the person asking is
getting an answer, it's probably in private.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

T wrote:

> No but there can be a little bit of milk. I've made a number of
> varieties but the one with the mirepoix and milk is the best one.

There's a place near where I live thatmakes ragu' like that: mirepoix
instead of soffritto. It's wonderful, and their lasagne are made with this
ragu' of theirs. Soon or late I'll try with mirepoix
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

On 2013-08-01, Cheryl > wrote:
> On 7/30/2013 8:45 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
>> Raw milk is mostly illegal to sell here. There is a vocal minority who
>> thinks it's the greatest thing around, much like the kooks who still
>> believe the phony vaccine-autism claims, but there seem to be sufficient
>> illness outbreaks connected to raw milk to prove them wrong.
>
> Ah, that answers my raw milk question. I've seen people on local web
> forums here asking if anyone knows where to get raw milk but I've never
> seen it answered. I figure it's illegal and if the person asking is
> getting an answer, it's probably in private.

Lotta disinformation on raw milk. Why? For the same reason it became
illegal for stores to distinguish BGH milk from non-BGH milk. Cuz
agribiz has too much to lose by allowing the truth to be known. Some
ppl claim raw milk has actually cured some things like eczema and
asthma. OTOH, some ppl believe astrology and that eating tiger penis
cures impotance.

Do I have the definitive answers? No. Do I still believe all the
horror stories I've heard about the dangers of drinking raw milk? Not
fer a microsecond. I do know for a fact I and my fellow GIs once
drank a gallon of raw milk brought all the way from Germany to our
semi-remote 60s USAF base in Libya N. Africa and it was one of the
most sublime foods I've ever ingested in my life, which I'm happy to
say is still motoring right along quite nicely, thank you.

You wanna see a pretty scary documentary about raw milk and the
draconian steps the govt has taken to keep it from informed
intelligent ppl? Get hold of the film Farmageddon by Krisy Canty.

<http://www.amazon.com/Farmageddon-Linda-Faillace/dp/B00744WZ8U?tag=duckduckgo-d-20>

Far more scary than any of the lurid tales of death and disease the
govt feeds us about raw moo juice.

nb

On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 00:42:22 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:



>>>
>>>> There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.
>>>
>>> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left overnight
>>
>> Only if you can get non homogenized milk, something that is pretty rare
>> in the US.
>>
>Is that what is called "raw milk"?

No, raw milk is right from the cow and not pasteurized. Heating mild
changes the flavor so that is why some people want it raw. Homogenized
is a mixing process that keeps the cream from separating. It reduces
the size of the fat molecules so they do not separate.

In article m>,
says...
>
> On 7/29/2013 5:34 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > ViLco wrote:
> >>
> >> pltrgyst wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now
> >>>> I see that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has
> >>>> lots of meat and cream....
> >>
> >>> There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.
> >>
> >> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left overnight
> >
> > Only if you can get non homogenized milk, something that is pretty rare
> > in the US.
> >
> Is that what is called "raw milk"?

No. Raw milk means unpasteurised.
Homogenised milk is pasteurised milk treated to make the fat particles
distribute evenly, instead of cream rising to the top.

Janet

On 8/1/2013 12:09 AM, T wrote:
> In article >, says...
>>
>> On 7/29/13 1:05 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> After the response someone made about using both bolognese and
>>>> béchamel in lasagna, it tells me that my idea of bolognese isn't in
>>>> line with what seems to be how many Americans think of it. Either
>>>> that, or their lasagna is too fussy (IMO, of course). What is your
>>>> recipe or method to make bolognese? TIA!
>>>
>>> I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now I see
>>> that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has lots of meat
>>> and cream....
>>
>> There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.
>>
>> -- Larry
>
> No but there can be a little bit of milk. I've made a number of
> varieties but the one with the mirepoix and milk is the best one.
>

I use non-fat milk exclusively and that's what I add when I make Ragu
Bolognese. I like the result but it looks a little disconcerting when
the milk is added but soon incorporates. The amount I add is enough to
keep the sauce liquid during the long simmering and it will be needed
three or four times.

Incidentally, non-fat milk seems to be the same thing as skimmed milk.
The Giant stores sell both at exactly the same price. I suppose this is
to keep the customers happy.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

Janet wrote:
>
> In article m>,
> says...
> >
> > On 7/29/2013 5:34 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> > >
> > > ViLco wrote:
> > >>
> > >> pltrgyst wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>> I had to look up a recipe. Wasn't sure I had ever made it. And now
> > >>>> I see that not only that but I've never had it. Looks like it has
> > >>>> lots of meat and cream....
> > >>
> > >>> There is no cream in Bolognese sauce.
> > >>
> > >> There is, the cream which forms atop a liter of whole milk left overnight
> > >
> > > Only if you can get non homogenized milk, something that is pretty rare
> > > in the US.
> > >
> > Is that what is called "raw milk"?
>
> No. Raw milk means unpasteurised.
> Homogenised milk is pasteurised milk treated to make the fat particles
> distribute evenly, instead of cream rising to the top.
>
> Janet

Yes, it's technically possible to have Pasteurized non-homogenized milk,
or non-Pasteurized homogenized milk, but I don't think those are
produced anywhere. Raw milk is generally considered non-pasteurized and
non-homogenized.