I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.

http://www.alicantema.com/

Good food and impeccable service.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
>
> http://www.alicantema.com/
>
> Good food and impeccable service.

Hmmm... Rather strange menu! And I didn't know that any places did that
with the menu any more either. In fact I don't think I've ever seen that.
Have only heard of it.

On 2013-07-30, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.

I didn't know any EVER did. Pretty funny.

> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.

Perhaps in such a case they are given the men's menu. (how bizarre)

nb

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 06:18:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
>
> http://www.alicantema.com/
>
> Good food and impeccable service.

Sounds like a real throwback. Was their food up to date or did they
decorate the plates with parsley?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 7/30/2013 6:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
>
> http://www.alicantema.com/
>
> Good food and impeccable service.
>
So ... if the woman is paying, she's just got to trust the
final bill? Hope it's not a huge surprise? Not that you're counting
your pennies if you're eating at a place like that, but do they
still think it's the 50s there?

nancy

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
>
> http://www.alicantema.com/
>
> Good food and impeccable service.

Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
restaurants.
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:21:53 +0200, "ViLco" > wrote:

> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> > been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> > women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> > a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> > There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
> >
> > http://www.alicantema.com/
> >
> > Good food and impeccable service.
>
> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
> restaurants.

Not in this day and age.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

sf wrote:

>>> Good food and impeccable service.

>> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
>> restaurants.

> Not in this day and age.

Sorry for you
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

On 7/30/13 9:21 AM, ViLco wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> .... The menu for the women had no prices.

What about the menus given to men other than yourself?

> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
> restaurants.

Then why doesn't the French Laundry do this? Or the Inn at Little
Washington? Or Topolobampo? Or Del Posto? Or any of the entries on my
top restaurants list?

The practice is Stupid, with a capital S.

This place does not take reservations -- it is not a "classy"
restaurant. And while the menu looks good, the wine list has no prices
and is distinctly low-end.

My wife would find such treatment insulting, as would all of the other
female executives I know. The place obviously doesn't value business
parties.

Our arrangement is that my wife pays for all meals we eat out, while I
pay for all food and drink for consumption at home. We share food and
drink selection in restaurants. We'd either both get menus and wine
lists with prices, or we'd walk out.

-- Larry

On 7/30/2013 9:40 AM, ViLco wrote:
> sf wrote:
>
>>>> Good food and impeccable service.
>
>>> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
>>> restaurants.
>
>> Not in this day and age.
>
> Sorry for you
>
Heh. Don't feel sorry. A lot of us don't want to be shielded
from the realities of life, like is the caesar salad too expensive?
(laugh) Especially if you're married, you really want to know if
dinner is going to be $300 or $100.

nancy

On 7/30/2013 8:21 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 7/30/2013 6:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
>> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
>> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
>> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
>> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
>>
>> http://www.alicantema.com/
>>
>> Good food and impeccable service.
>>
> So ... if the woman is paying, she's just got to trust the
> final bill? Hope it's not a huge surprise? Not that you're counting
> your pennies if you're eating at a place like that, but do they
> still think it's the 50s there?
>
> nancy

Now that he knows, if she's going to pay they could just swap menus.

The practice is rather archaic.

Jill

pltrgyst wrote:

>> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
>> restaurants.

> Then why doesn't the French Laundry do this? Or the Inn at Little
> Washington? Or Topolobampo? Or Del Posto? Or any of the entries on my
> top restaurants list?

So why does Delmonicos (LV) do this? Why does the Four Seasons (NY) do this?
And what about the restaurant at Les Ambassadeurs Club (London)? And what
about Alain Ducasse in Manhattan? And what about Pierre Gagnaire in Pairs?
Or the Le Pavillon, one of the best in Marrakesh? And what about Bottura's
La Francescana in Modena (Emilia Romagna) or Vissani's restaurant in Baschi
(Umbria)?

> The practice is Stupid, with a capital S.

You're very polite, with a capital U

> This place does not take reservations -- it is not a "classy"
> restaurant. And while the menu looks good, the wine list has no prices
> and is distinctly low-end.

Don't konw why this surprise me: they are just trying to seem upscale by
imitating a staple in upscale places. So what: never seen a "not
classy"restaurant offering classy glasses, or cutlery? Does this undermine
the right of upscale places to use classy glasses and cutlery? No.

> My wife would find such treatment insulting, as would all of the other
> female executives I know. The place obviously doesn't value business
> parties.

LOL, menu's without prices exist only for three reasons, and business meals
are just one of the trio, the others being meals with a fiancee or with
relatives
--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

ViLco wrote:

> Don't konw why this SHOULD surprise me

--
"Un pasto senza vino e' come un giorno senza sole"
Anthelme Brillat Savarin

On 7/30/2013 10:04 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 7/30/2013 8:21 AM, Nancy Young wrote:

>> So ... if the woman is paying, she's just got to trust the
>> final bill? Hope it's not a huge surprise? Not that you're counting
>> your pennies if you're eating at a place like that, but do they
>> still think it's the 50s there?

> Now that he knows, if she's going to pay they could just swap menus.

I hope he didn't peek at the prices!

> The practice is rather archaic.

I don't really see a place for it. I have only encountered that once,
and it was a shareholder's meeting at a fancy Manhattan restaurant and
the majority shareholder requested he be the only one to see the prices.

I suppose it's okay in a business situation.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/30/2013 10:04 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 7/30/2013 8:21 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>
>>> So ... if the woman is paying, she's just got to trust the
>>> final bill? Hope it's not a huge surprise? Not that you're counting
>>> your pennies if you're eating at a place like that, but do they
>>> still think it's the 50s there?
>
>> Now that he knows, if she's going to pay they could just swap menus.
>
> I hope he didn't peek at the prices!
>
>> The practice is rather archaic.
>
> I don't really see a place for it. I have only encountered that once,
> and it was a shareholder's meeting at a fancy Manhattan restaurant and
> the majority shareholder requested he be the only one to see the prices.
>
> I suppose it's okay in a business situation.
>

As a shareholder, I would want to know how much of the corporations assets
were being squandered at a fancy Manhattan restaurant.

ViLco wrote:
>
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> > been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> > women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> > a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> > There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
> >
> > http://www.alicantema.com/
> >
> > Good food and impeccable service.
>
> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
> restaurants.

Chivalry has been redefined as sexist and is not "PC".

On 7/30/2013 10:41 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>> I don't really see a place for it. I have only encountered that once,
>> and it was a shareholder's meeting at a fancy Manhattan restaurant and
>> the majority shareholder requested he be the only one to see the prices.
>>
>> I suppose it's okay in a business situation.
>>
>
> As a shareholder, I would want to know how much of the corporations assets
> were being squandered at a fancy Manhattan restaurant.

Of course, but the situation is that the three shareholders and
spouses (of which I was one) were okay with it, whatever it was.
A once a year splurge.

nancy

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:00:41 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

> On 7/30/2013 9:40 AM, ViLco wrote:
> > sf wrote:
> >
> >>>> Good food and impeccable service.
> >
> >>> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
> >>> restaurants.
> >
> >> Not in this day and age.
> >
> > Sorry for you
> >
> Heh. Don't feel sorry. A lot of us don't want to be shielded
> from the realities of life, like is the caesar salad too expensive?
> (laugh) Especially if you're married, you really want to know if
> dinner is going to be $300 or $100.
>
Agreed! I find it highly insulting to have information withheld
because of my gender. Perhaps they supply smelling salts with the
menu that has prices on it.... or a defibrillator.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

Nancy Young wrote:

> On 7/30/2013 6:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
>
> > been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
>
> > women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
>
> > a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
>
> > There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
>
> >
>
> > http://www.alicantema.com/
>
> >
>
> > Good food and impeccable service.
>
> >
>
> So ... if the woman is paying, she's just got to trust the
>
> final bill? Hope it's not a huge surprise? Not that you're counting
>
> your pennies if you're eating at a place like that, but do they
>
> still think it's the 50s there?


It's very _Mad Men_ ...

--
Best
Greg

I've never heard of such a practice, How sexist is THAT.

On 7/30/2013 11:23 AM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:00:41 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
>
>> On 7/30/2013 9:40 AM, ViLco wrote:
>>> sf wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Good food and impeccable service.
>>>
>>>>> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
>>>>> restaurants.
>>>
>>>> Not in this day and age.
>>>
>>> Sorry for you
>>>
>> Heh. Don't feel sorry. A lot of us don't want to be shielded
>> from the realities of life, like is the caesar salad too expensive?
>> (laugh) Especially if you're married, you really want to know if
>> dinner is going to be $300 or $100.
>>
> Agreed! I find it highly insulting to have information withheld
> because of my gender. Perhaps they supply smelling salts with the
> menu that has prices on it.... or a defibrillator.
>
LOLOL! Although the prices on the menu I looked at didn't seem over the
top.

Jill

On 7/30/2013 11:43 AM, Kalmia wrote:
> I've never heard of such a practice, How sexist is THAT.
>
It's a throwback to the old days. The assumption is if the woman saw
the price of what she wanted to order she might be afraid it's too
expensive.

BTW, could you please quote some relevant text when replying?

Jill

On 7/30/2013 12:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
>
> http://www.alicantema.com/
>
> Good food and impeccable service.
>

The prices are there on the menu alright. I'd take the steak for $23.

On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:57:31 AM UTC-5, Pete C. wrote:
> ViLco wrote:

> > Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> > > I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> > > been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> > > women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> > > a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> > > There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
> > > http://www.alicantema.com/
> > > Good food and impeccable service.

> > Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
> > restaurants.

> Chivalry has been redefined as sexist and is not "PC".

What's been redefined is the idea that if a couple is dining, the man is
picking up the tab. I don't have a problem with menus with no prices for
the guests. I would have a problem if I told the maitre d'/server that
I (woman)was hosting the meal, and that person still gave me the menu
without prices.

ViLco wrote:
> sf wrote:
>
>>>> Good food and impeccable service.
>
>>> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
>>> restaurants.
>
>> Not in this day and age.
>
> Sorry for you


Some people (and I'm not speaking of anybody in particular) are not
happy unless they have something to be angry or offended about.

Bob

On 7/30/2013 11:23 AM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:00:41 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:

>> Heh. Don't feel sorry. A lot of us don't want to be shielded
>> from the realities of life, like is the caesar salad too expensive?
>> (laugh) Especially if you're married, you really want to know if
>> dinner is going to be $300 or $100.
>>
> Agreed! I find it highly insulting to have information withheld
> because of my gender. Perhaps they supply smelling salts with the
> menu that has prices on it.... or a defibrillator.

That really cracked me up.

But yes, I would like to make in informed decision about what
I order. And not have the restaurant staff make assumptions
about who's paying. Etc. We need a new word, one that covers
men and women having good manners towards each other, not just
men being polite to women.

Like chivalry means holding the door open for a woman. Hey, I'll
hold the door open for a man if I see you coming, too. Doesn't have
to be a one way street. There is no need for men to feel insulted if
some women don't like the menu/price thing. I happen to feel that's a
tradition that I don't miss/find a bit insulting.

nancy

On 7/30/2013 2:04 PM, zxcvbob wrote:
> ViLco wrote:
>> sf wrote:
>>
>>>>> Good food and impeccable service.
>>
>>>> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
>>>> restaurants.
>>
>>> Not in this day and age.
>>
>> Sorry for you

> Some people (and I'm not speaking of anybody in particular) are not
> happy unless they have something to be angry or offended about.

Wow. I thought we were just discussing how people felt about it,
what else was the original post meant for otherwise?

I didn't notice anyone being angry.

nancy

In article >,
Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.

Ask which is the butch and which the femme;
unless it was obvious.

--
Michael Press

In article >,
jmcquown > wrote:

> On 7/30/2013 8:21 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> > On 7/30/2013 6:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> >> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> >> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> >> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> >> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
> >>
> >> http://www.alicantema.com/
> >>
> >> Good food and impeccable service.
> >>
> > So ... if the woman is paying, she's just got to trust the
> > final bill? Hope it's not a huge surprise? Not that you're counting
> > your pennies if you're eating at a place like that, but do they
> > still think it's the 50s there?
> >
> > nancy
>
> Now that he knows, if she's going to pay they could just swap menus.
>
> The practice is rather archaic.

I do not consider it archaic, and many people like the practice.

--
Michael Press

In article >,
"Pete C." > wrote:

> ViLco wrote:
> >
> > Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> > > I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> > > been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> > > women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> > > a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> > > There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
> > >
> > > http://www.alicantema.com/
> > >
> > > Good food and impeccable service.
> >
> > Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
> > restaurants.
>
> Chivalry has been redefined as sexist and is not "PC".

The problem is that chivalry recognizes differences;
but now it is forbidden to discriminate.

--
Michael Press

On 7/30/2013 12:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.
> There was a table with two women so I wonder what they do there.
>
> http://www.alicantema.com/
>
> Good food and impeccable service.
>

I misread your post when you said it was the women's menu that had no
prices. I kind of like the practice. OTOH, it could make your diner
guests uncomfortable so I wouldn't do it myself. It is a pretty classy
move for a classy joint and as an added bonus, the prices aren't too out
of line.

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/30/2013 10:41 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote
>
>>> I don't really see a place for it. I have only encountered that once,
>>> and it was a shareholder's meeting at a fancy Manhattan restaurant and
>>> the majority shareholder requested he be the only one to see the prices.
>>>
>>> I suppose it's okay in a business situation.
>>>
>>
>> As a shareholder, I would want to know how much of the corporations
>> assets
>> were being squandered at a fancy Manhattan restaurant.
>
> Of course, but the situation is that the three shareholders and
> spouses (of which I was one) were okay with it, whatever it was.
> A once a year splurge.
>


ok by me if ok by the irs.

On 7/30/13 10:32 AM, ViLco wrote:

> So why does Delmonicos (LV) do this? Why does the Four Seasons (NY) do this?
> And what about the restaurant at Les Ambassadeurs Club (London)? And what
> about Alain Ducasse in Manhattan? And what about Pierre Gagnaire in Pairs?

They're all reactionary. They also undoubtedly know all of their regular
clientele and are sufficiently hypocritical to subvert the practice when
a power female-headed party is seated.

-- Larry

On 7/30/13 10:57 AM, Pete C. wrote:

>> Chivalry, the word is Chivalry, with a capital C. Typical of classy
>> restaurants.
>
> Chivalry has been redefined as sexist and is not "PC".

Chivalry is courtesy. I don't think it's courteous to treat one gender
as though it's so fragile and unable to cope with reality that its
members can't deal with the presence of prices on a menu.

In fact, I think it's demeaning and insulting -- which is the opposite
of chivalrous.

-- Larry

In article >,
Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> I took my wife and a female friend to a restaurant last Sunday. I've
> been there before a few times and never noticed. The menu for the
> women had no prices. My wife never mentioned it in the past so I was
> a bit surprised. I did not think anyone was still doing that today.

I was surprised at the strong reactions against the
practice. Opinion stated as hard fact; emotionally
unbalanced pejorative language; no reasoned discussion
of the matter; implying that anyone who undertakes or
approves of the practice is a brute.

When invited into someone's home for dinner do these
people add up the price of the do?

When I have received a menu without prices I have felt
warm; considered; coddled.

--
Michael Press

On 7/30/2013 10:23 AM, Michael Press wrote:
> I was surprised at the strong reactions against the
> practice. Opinion stated as hard fact; emotionally
> unbalanced pejorative language; no reasoned discussion
> of the matter; implying that anyone who undertakes or
> approves of the practice is a brute.
>
> When invited into someone's home for dinner do these
> people add up the price of the do?
>
> When I have received a menu without prices I have felt
> warm; considered; coddled.
>

If I was footing the bill, I'd prefer to have no prices listed. If
someone else is paying, I prefer to have the prices listed.

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> Like chivalry means holding the door open for a woman. Hey, I'll
> hold the door open for a man if I see you coming, too. Doesn't have
> to be a one way street.

I thank everyone that holds a door for me and I do the same all the time.
Once though, I held the door for a woman and she glared at me and said, "I'm
quite capable of opening the door by myself." geez. sorry for trying to be
polite.

G.

On 7/30/2013 3:59 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>> On 7/30/2013 10:41 AM, Pico Rico wrote:

>>> As a shareholder, I would want to know how much of the corporations
>>> assets
>>> were being squandered at a fancy Manhattan restaurant.
>>
>> Of course, but the situation is that the three shareholders and
>> spouses (of which I was one) were okay with it, whatever it was.
>> A once a year splurge.

> ok by me if ok by the irs.

Heh. No rules were broken that I know of.

nancy

On 7/30/2013 4:33 PM, Gary wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> Like chivalry means holding the door open for a woman. Hey, I'll
>> hold the door open for a man if I see you coming, too. Doesn't have
>> to be a one way street.
>
> I thank everyone that holds a door for me and I do the same all the time.
> Once though, I held the door for a woman and she glared at me and said, "I'm
> quite capable of opening the door by myself." geez. sorry for trying to be
> polite.

Probably a lot of women said thank you, so don't judge all women
by that one jerk. It is funny the reaction you get, usually it's
thank you whether it's a man or a woman, but now and then you get
the person who will sail through without a word like you're there
to hold doors for them.

Is it rude to say YOU'RE WELCOME! to their back? (laugh)

nancy

Gary wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>> Like chivalry means holding the door open for a woman. Hey, I'll
>> hold the door open for a man if I see you coming, too. Doesn't have
>> to be a one way street.
>
> I thank everyone that holds a door for me and I do the same all the time.
> Once though, I held the door for a woman and she glared at me and said, "I'm
> quite capable of opening the door by myself." geez. sorry for trying to be
> polite.
>
> G.


"I didn't hold the door because you're a lady, I held it because I'm a
gentleman"

On the other hand, you made her day. (see my previous post)

Bob