I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe

Absolutely terrifying


http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HShXhJMQdA


--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 11:21:48 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>
>Absolutely terrifying
>
>
>http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HShXhJMQdA
>
>
>--

Yep! That'as a LOTTA rain really fast. Best to stay away from that
fast moving water if you don't know what you are doing. I saw a video
of some crazy kayayers acrtually kayakiing a flooded Boulder Creek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dD817QzDW8

The spectator commebnts at about 3:00 about how to get OUT of the
creek would be my crucial consideration. The kayaker does surf the
standing wave pretty well, but then WHEN blown off the wave gets
washed down VERY fast!

When you know what you are doing in a kayak (like this guy evidently
does) it's awfully tempting to get out and boat the flood. Hope this
kayaker was OK. He probably was.

John Kuthe...

On 2013-09-15, Ophelia > wrote:
> I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>
> Absolutely terrifying


I posted this yesterday in another group:

-------------

Yet, the south-eastern corner of CO is still suffering "extreme" (D3)
level drought conditions, as did most of the state one year ago. I'm
in the headwaters of the Arkansas R valley, dead center in the CO
Rockies, and the river has risen a little over seven inches in the
last 24hrs. Far from crisis levels. Not even Spring runoff levels.
Fifty percent chance (almost certain) of more rain today and tomorrow.
We need it, badly.

http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/monitor.htm
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?site_no=07091200

I live about 50 ft from river, but am about 50 above it, so no
problem, here. Unfortunate for N CO, but flash floods after a drought
are pretty common.

--------------

Today:

I'm about 225 mi southwest of Longmont and Lyons, among the hardest
hit areas in CO. Also, the predicted heavy rains for this weekend
have yet to materialize, so worse flooding has been avoided and water
levels are dropping, but damage to roads and houses are severe in some
areas, like around Boulder.

Most of that effected area are on the so called Front Range, where the
Rockies literally drop down from 10K+ ft on the board flat CO Plains.
It's like a gigantic water slide dumping tons of water onto a flat
parking lot. Lotta water emptying out on a flat surface with no more
incline and no place to go, so the water slows down and backs up.

The people shown crossing that bridge in Longmont are jes plain
stupid, including that idiot policeman in his patrol car. I'd say
that bridge is about a gnat's ass away from being washed away and ppl
should not be anywhere near it!

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2013-09-15, Ophelia > wrote:
>> I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>>
>> Absolutely terrifying
>
>
> I posted this yesterday in another group:
>
> -------------
>
> Yet, the south-eastern corner of CO is still suffering "extreme" (D3)
> level drought conditions, as did most of the state one year ago. I'm
> in the headwaters of the Arkansas R valley, dead center in the CO
> Rockies, and the river has risen a little over seven inches in the
> last 24hrs. Far from crisis levels. Not even Spring runoff levels.
> Fifty percent chance (almost certain) of more rain today and tomorrow.
> We need it, badly.
>
> http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/monitor.htm
> http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?site_no=07091200
>
> I live about 50 ft from river, but am about 50 above it, so no
> problem, here. Unfortunate for N CO, but flash floods after a drought
> are pretty common.
>
> --------------
>
> Today:
>
> I'm about 225 mi southwest of Longmont and Lyons, among the hardest
> hit areas in CO. Also, the predicted heavy rains for this weekend
> have yet to materialize, so worse flooding has been avoided and water
> levels are dropping, but damage to roads and houses are severe in some
> areas, like around Boulder.
>
> Most of that effected area are on the so called Front Range, where the
> Rockies literally drop down from 10K+ ft on the board flat CO Plains.
> It's like a gigantic water slide dumping tons of water onto a flat
> parking lot. Lotta water emptying out on a flat surface with no more
> incline and no place to go, so the water slows down and backs up.
>
> The people shown crossing that bridge in Longmont are jes plain
> stupid, including that idiot policeman in his patrol car. I'd say
> that bridge is about a gnat's ass away from being washed away and ppl
> should not be anywhere near it!

Thanks, Bob. Your report has been passed on.

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 11:21:48 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>>
>>Absolutely terrifying
>>
>>
>>http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HShXhJMQdA
>>
>>
>>--
>
> Yep! That'as a LOTTA rain really fast. Best to stay away from that
> fast moving water if you don't know what you are doing. I saw a video
> of some crazy kayayers acrtually kayakiing a flooded Boulder Creek:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dD817QzDW8
>
> The spectator commebnts at about 3:00 about how to get OUT of the
> creek would be my crucial consideration. The kayaker does surf the
> standing wave pretty well, but then WHEN blown off the wave gets
> washed down VERY fast!
>
> When you know what you are doing in a kayak (like this guy evidently
> does) it's awfully tempting to get out and boat the flood. Hope this
> kayaker was OK. He probably was.

Crazy

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>
> Absolutely terrifying

Yes, I've been to Colorado. Beautiful place.

It's not all rural as some people think. There's some beautiful old
buildings, like the Hotel Boulderado (Boulder) and the Stanley Hotel (Estes
Park).

I hope this is just a 500-year flood and they're able to get things back to
normal soon.

Some things you have to watch out for are Mountain Lions, Bears, and crazy
hippies that walk right out into the middle of the road. Also there's some
scarey roads (on the sides of mountains). And Estes Park gets some weird
weather. And there's this lady called Scarey Mary at the Stanley Hotel. I
think she tries to read people's minds a little too much.


W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)

On 2013-09-15 7:21 AM, notbob wrote:

>
> The people shown crossing that bridge in Longmont are jes plain
> stupid, including that idiot policeman in his patrol car. I'd say
> that bridge is about a gnat's ass away from being washed away and ppl
> should not be anywhere near it!
>
>
Glad to hear you are safe. I just got email from cousins in Longmont and
they say they are about two miles from the flooding. I have
recollection of most of the residential part of Longmont being quite flat.

"Christopher M." wrote:
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
> >
> > Absolutely terrifying
>
> Yes, I've been to Colorado. Beautiful place.

I lived there (Colorado Springs) for about 6 months. Nice country out
there. Sad to hear about the flooding. Comes only recently following
all the wild fires they had to deal with this summer.

G.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> "Christopher M." wrote:
>>
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>> >
>> > Absolutely terrifying
>>
>> Yes, I've been to Colorado. Beautiful place.
>
> I lived there (Colorado Springs) for about 6 months. Nice country out
> there. Sad to hear about the flooding. Comes only recently following
> all the wild fires they had to deal with this summer.
>
> G.

Yeah those fires are crazy. Too bad they didn't get the rain before the
fires instead of after.


W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)

On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:40:49 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
>"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 11:21:48 +0100, "Ophelia"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>>>
>>>Absolutely terrifying
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news
>>>
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HShXhJMQdA
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>
>> Yep! That'as a LOTTA rain really fast. Best to stay away from that
>> fast moving water if you don't know what you are doing. I saw a video
>> of some crazy kayayers acrtually kayakiing a flooded Boulder Creek:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dD817QzDW8
>>
>> The spectator commebnts at about 3:00 about how to get OUT of the
>> creek would be my crucial consideration. The kayaker does surf the
>> standing wave pretty well, but then WHEN blown off the wave gets
>> washed down VERY fast!
>>
>> When you know what you are doing in a kayak (like this guy evidently
>> does) it's awfully tempting to get out and boat the flood. Hope this
>> kayaker was OK. He probably was.
>
>Crazy
>
>--

There's a fine line between crazy and stupid! I'd not put on that
water unlelss I KNEW it was a clear float for miles below, and a
guaranteed easy exit point.

John Kuthe...

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:40:49 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 11:21:48 +0100, "Ophelia"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>>>>
>>>>Absolutely terrifying
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news
>>>>
>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HShXhJMQdA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>
>>> Yep! That'as a LOTTA rain really fast. Best to stay away from that
>>> fast moving water if you don't know what you are doing. I saw a video
>>> of some crazy kayayers acrtually kayakiing a flooded Boulder Creek:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dD817QzDW8
>>>
>>> The spectator commebnts at about 3:00 about how to get OUT of the
>>> creek would be my crucial consideration. The kayaker does surf the
>>> standing wave pretty well, but then WHEN blown off the wave gets
>>> washed down VERY fast!
>>>
>>> When you know what you are doing in a kayak (like this guy evidently
>>> does) it's awfully tempting to get out and boat the flood. Hope this
>>> kayaker was OK. He probably was.
>>
>>Crazy
>>
>>--
>
> There's a fine line between crazy and stupid! I'd not put on that
> water unlelss I KNEW it was a clear float for miles below, and a
> guaranteed easy exit point.

Too right!

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2013-09-15, Ophelia > wrote:

>> There's a fine line between crazy and stupid! I'd not put on that
>> water unlelss I KNEW it was a clear float for miles below, and a
>> guaranteed easy exit point.
>
> Too right!

The CO governor came on TV this morning and declared anyone caught
rafting or kayaking the floodwaters would be arrested. I personally
don't understand it, except to take the heat off overworked rescue
workers. CO's biggest industry, other than beef, is river
rafting/kayaking. Ppl die every year doing it. That's what it's all
about. Dancing with death.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2013-09-15, Ophelia > wrote:
>
>>> There's a fine line between crazy and stupid! I'd not put on that
>>> water unlelss I KNEW it was a clear float for miles below, and a
>>> guaranteed easy exit point.
>>
>> Too right!
>
> The CO governor came on TV this morning and declared anyone caught
> rafting or kayaking the floodwaters would be arrested. I personally
> don't understand it, except to take the heat off overworked rescue
> workers. CO's biggest industry, other than beef, is river
> rafting/kayaking. Ppl die every year doing it. That's what it's all
> about. Dancing with death.

I guess that as the rescue workers are so overloaded they don't want to take
chances on anything having to pull them away
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2013-09-15, Ophelia > wrote:
>
>
> "notbob" > wrote in message
>>
>> The CO governor came on TV this morning and declared anyone caught
>> rafting or kayaking the floodwaters would be arrested. I personally
>> don't understand it, except to take the heat off overworked rescue
>> workers.

> I guess that as the rescue workers are so overloaded they don't want to take
> chances on anything having to pull them away

Yep. That's what I was getting at. They got enough problems without
causing more.

nb

On 2013-09-15 2:55 PM, notbob wrote:

>
> The CO governor came on TV this morning and declared anyone caught
> rafting or kayaking the floodwaters would be arrested. I personally
> don't understand it, except to take the heat off overworked rescue
> workers. CO's biggest industry, other than beef, is river
> rafting/kayaking. Ppl die every year doing it. That's what it's all
> about. Dancing with death.

I see no reason to arrest them. However....... if one of them good into
trouble I would expect that the emergency response crews would be too
busy attending to real emergencies. Let Darwin look after flood water
rafters.
On a related note, about a month and a half ago police intercepted a
couple of guys who were planning to kayak over Niagara Falls. A couple
weeks ago another guy was planning on trying it but smartened up and
decided not to try.

On 15 Sep 2013 18:55:45 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2013-09-15, Ophelia > wrote:
>
>>> There's a fine line between crazy and stupid! I'd not put on that
>>> water unlelss I KNEW it was a clear float for miles below, and a
>>> guaranteed easy exit point.
>>
>> Too right!
>
>The CO governor came on TV this morning and declared anyone caught
>rafting or kayaking the floodwaters would be arrested.

Um, right! like extreme sports folks carea whole lot about if it's
"legal" or not? Davey Hearn got chased off the Potomac river years ago
when it flooded. The Potomac is his home river and he's an expert
Olympic grade whitewater kayaker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeCocPhJ6bY

And I could not find the video, but the Police officer wading out in a
shallow part of the river trying to grab Davey's boat slipped and fell
in the water!! It was comical! Stupid and comical. Davey said at that
level the river had waves and other features he just could not pass up
so he risked it.

These expert kayakers know a hell of a lot more than the official
river rescue people about high water and the hazards and how to deal
with them. And it ****es the officials off, becaose they are so full
of their own egos they can't stand to think ANYONE knows morer them
them!



>I personally
>don't understand it, except to take the heat off overworked rescue
>workers. CO's biggest industry, other than beef, is river
>rafting/kayaking. Ppl die every year doing it. That's what it's all
>about. Dancing with death.
>
>nb

Yeah, yeah,yeah. If YOUI'D do it, YOU'D be dancing with death. I'd be
surfing, catching eddies, doing peelouts, ferries and eddy turns and
having a great time! I've kayaked all whitewater sections of the
Arkansas in CO, the Cache La Poudre, Boulder Creek, the Lake Fork and
probably another whuitewater river or two out there I can't remember.
Not the whole rivers but sections of them I felt comfortable to
handle. And I have handled them! I've swam a few times and always got
out unscathed and continied to kayak out there.


John Kuthe...

In article >,
says...
>
> On 2013-09-15, Ophelia > wrote:
>
> >> There's a fine line between crazy and stupid! I'd not put on that
> >> water unlelss I KNEW it was a clear float for miles below, and a
> >> guaranteed easy exit point.
> >
> > Too right!
>
> The CO governor came on TV this morning and declared anyone caught
> rafting or kayaking the floodwaters would be arrested. I personally
> don't understand it, except to take the heat off overworked rescue
> workers. CO's biggest industry, other than beef, is river
> rafting/kayaking. Ppl die every year doing it. That's what it's all
> about. Dancing with death.

Flood water is different; beaneath the surface it's often carrying
innumerable bits of loose debris collected from onshore; highly
dangerous to kayaks.

Janet.

On 2013-09-15 5:46 PM, Janet wrote:

> Flood water is different; beaneath the surface it's often carrying
> innumerable bits of loose debris collected from onshore; highly
> dangerous to kayaks.
>
You are right of course. You and I know that, and the kayakers should
know it. I think that charging them is unnecessary. If they make it
through the floodwaters there is no problem. If they have trouble....
they are on their own. Bill the estate for the recovery of the bodies.

On 2013-09-15, Janet > wrote:

> Flood water is different; beaneath the surface it's often carrying
> innumerable bits of loose debris collected from onshore; highly
> dangerous to kayaks.

More dangerous than existing well-known hazards that can be as equally
treacherous? I think not.

Last Summer, we had a trained rafting guide die when she got sucked
into a well known river hazard. So treacherous, took them 2 wks to
fabricate a barrier and divert heavy river flow enough to get her body
out. This after her body being down in this suck hole for over 30
days. After the retrieval, the river was returned to it's natural
state and that particularly onerous hazard still exists to this day.

nb

On 9/15/2013 7:17 AM, John Kuthe wrote:

> Yep! That'as a LOTTA rain really fast. Best to stay away from that
> fast moving water if you don't know what you are doing. I saw a video
> of some crazy kayayers acrtually kayakiing a flooded Boulder Creek:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dD817QzDW8
>
> The spectator commebnts at about 3:00 about how to get OUT of the
> creek would be my crucial consideration. The kayaker does surf the
> standing wave pretty well, but then WHEN blown off the wave gets
> washed down VERY fast!
>
> When you know what you are doing in a kayak (like this guy evidently
> does) it's awfully tempting to get out and boat the flood. Hope this
> kayaker was OK. He probably was.
>
> John Kuthe...
>

I wish the quality was better, but the beginning part was like an
"endless pool". Neat! I hope he was ok.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 9/15/2013 6:05 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2013-09-15, Janet > wrote:
>
>> Flood water is different; beaneath the surface it's often carrying
>> innumerable bits of loose debris collected from onshore; highly
>> dangerous to kayaks.
>
> More dangerous than existing well-known hazards that can be as equally
> treacherous? I think not.

I think so.
>
> Last Summer, we had a trained rafting guide die when she got sucked
> into a well known river hazard. So treacherous, took them 2 wks to
> fabricate a barrier and divert heavy river flow enough to get her body
> out. This after her body being down in this suck hole for over 30
> days. After the retrieval, the river was returned to it's natural
> state and that particularly onerous hazard still exists to this day.
>
> nb
>

Flood water often carries raw sewage and other potential toxins it may
have picked up. No thanks, I'll stay on dry land and not put rescue
personnel at risk either. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 20:55:44 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
....
>Flood water often carries raw sewage and other potential toxins it may
>have picked up. No thanks, I'll stay on dry land and not put rescue
>personnel at risk either. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.

Flood water contains more maybe, butALL of Mother Nature's water MAY
contain pathologen(s). How pure do you insist your water be, and what
are you doing with it? You gonna drink it? You gonna irrigate a wound
with it?

John Kuthe...

On 9/16/13 7:26 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 20:55:44 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> ...
>> Flood water often carries raw sewage and other potential toxins it may
>> have picked up. No thanks, I'll stay on dry land and not put rescue
>> personnel at risk either. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.
>
> Flood water contains more maybe, butALL of Mother Nature's water MAY
> contain pathologen(s). How pure do you insist your water be, and what
> are you doing with it? You gonna drink it? You gonna irrigate a wound
> with it?
>
> John Kuthe...
>
oh stop being a ****y little dick. If during a disaster situation and
the government asks you to stay out of the water (for *whatever* reason)
just do it for christake. Why risk causing anyone a moments concern or
added stress worrying about rogue boaters who just want to show off
their questionable bravado? Don't you think they have enough valid
reasons and other more pressing things to deal with than little pricks
like you?

On 9/16/2013 7:54 AM, Goomba wrote:
> On 9/16/13 7:26 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 20:55:44 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>> ...
>>> Flood water often carries raw sewage and other potential toxins it may
>>> have picked up. No thanks, I'll stay on dry land and not put rescue
>>> personnel at risk either. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.
>>
>> Flood water contains more maybe, butALL of Mother Nature's water MAY
>> contain pathologen(s). How pure do you insist your water be, and what
>> are you doing with it? You gonna drink it? You gonna irrigate a wound
>> with it?

> oh stop being a ****y little dick. If during a disaster situation and
> the government asks you to stay out of the water (for *whatever* reason)
> just do it for christake. Why risk causing anyone a moments concern or
> added stress worrying about rogue boaters who just want to show off
> their questionable bravado? Don't you think they have enough valid
> reasons and other more pressing things to deal with than little pricks
> like you?

Doesn't seem that complicated, does it? Like my Governor said
during the hurricane, Stay the Hell off the beach!

nancy

On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:54:22 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:
....
>oh stop being a ****y little dick. If during a disaster situation and
>the government asks you to stay out of the water (for *whatever* reason)
>just do it for christake. ...

That kind of mindless submission to Big Brother is just what The
Government wants! Thank you, but I will continue to always think and
act for myself. You can be a Sheeple if you want, buy leave the rest
of U.S. who have faith in our own personal autonomy alone!!

John Kuthe...

On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:14:21 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 9/16/2013 7:54 AM, Goomba wrote:
>> On 9/16/13 7:26 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 20:55:44 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> Flood water often carries raw sewage and other potential toxins it may
>>>> have picked up. No thanks, I'll stay on dry land and not put rescue
>>>> personnel at risk either. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.
>>>
>>> Flood water contains more maybe, butALL of Mother Nature's water MAY
>>> contain pathologen(s). How pure do you insist your water be, and what
>>> are you doing with it? You gonna drink it? You gonna irrigate a wound
>>> with it?
>
>> oh stop being a ****y little dick. If during a disaster situation and
>> the government asks you to stay out of the water (for *whatever* reason)
>> just do it for christake. Why risk causing anyone a moments concern or
>> added stress worrying about rogue boaters who just want to show off
>> their questionable bravado? Don't you think they have enough valid
>> reasons and other more pressing things to deal with than little pricks
>> like you?
>
>Doesn't seem that complicated, does it? Like my Governor said
>during the hurricane, Stay the Hell off the beach!
>
>nancy

And I would have too! Not because Christie said so but because it was
a good bloody idea!! Mother Nasture may spank you ass othewise, and
Father Darwin yanking your stupid genes out of the gene pool may be
impending otherwise! DUH!!

John Kuthe...

On 9/16/13 8:17 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:54:22 -0400, Goomba >
> wrote:
> ...
>> oh stop being a ****y little dick. If during a disaster situation and
>> the government asks you to stay out of the water (for *whatever* reason)
>> just do it for christake. ...
>
> That kind of mindless submission to Big Brother is just what The
> Government wants! Thank you, but I will continue to always think and
> act for myself. You can be a Sheeple if you want, buy leave the rest
> of U.S. who have faith in our own personal autonomy alone!!
>
> John Kuthe...
>
No one is mindlessly submitting to "Big Brother"... we're advocating
mindfully respecting the disaster risks and showing some common sense
and consideration for those disaster workers (like myself) who don't
need yet one more potential victim on the roster.
<major eye roll> <smdh>

On 9/16/2013 8:20 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:14:21 -0400, Nancy Young

>> Doesn't seem that complicated, does it? Like my Governor said
>> during the hurricane, Stay the Hell off the beach!

> And I would have too! Not because Christie said so but because it was
> a good bloody idea!! Mother Nasture may spank you ass othewise, and
> Father Darwin yanking your stupid genes out of the gene pool may be
> impending otherwise! DUH!!

Yet every time, there are a bunch of people who have to walk out
on the jetties. Then there have to be other people risking their
lives to make sure someone doesn't die. So thoughtless.

nancy

On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:20:55 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:

>On 9/16/13 8:17 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:54:22 -0400, Goomba >
>> wrote:
>> ...
>>> oh stop being a ****y little dick. If during a disaster situation and
>>> the government asks you to stay out of the water (for *whatever* reason)
>>> just do it for christake. ...
>>
>> That kind of mindless submission to Big Brother is just what The
>> Government wants! Thank you, but I will continue to always think and
>> act for myself. You can be a Sheeple if you want, buy leave the rest
>> of U.S. who have faith in our own personal autonomy alone!!
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>>
>No one is mindlessly submitting to "Big Brother"... we're advocating
>mindfully respecting the disaster risks and showing some common sense
>and consideration for those disaster workers (like myself) who don't
>need yet one more potential victim on the roster.
><major eye roll> <smdh>

I never said I woulkd not cooperate fully with The Govt's rescue
efforts. But why can't those able have a little fun at the same time?

John Kuthe...

On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:46:40 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 9/16/2013 8:20 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:14:21 -0400, Nancy Young
>
>>> Doesn't seem that complicated, does it? Like my Governor said
>>> during the hurricane, Stay the Hell off the beach!
>
>> And I would have too! Not because Christie said so but because it was
>> a good bloody idea!! Mother Nasture may spank you ass othewise, and
>> Father Darwin yanking your stupid genes out of the gene pool may be
>> impending otherwise! DUH!!
>
>Yet every time, there are a bunch of people who have to walk out
>on the jetties. Then there have to be other people risking their
>lives to make sure someone doesn't die. So thoughtless.
>
>nancy

First rule of river recue: do not add to the problem!

Anyone who willing puts themselves in a position of risk is doing it
on their own dime, so to speak. We can't cure stupid, only Father
Darwin can!

John Kuthe...

In article >,
says...
>
> On 2013-09-15, Janet > wrote:
>
> > Flood water is different; beaneath the surface it's often carrying
> > innumerable bits of loose debris collected from onshore; highly
> > dangerous to kayaks.
>
> More dangerous than existing well-known hazards that can be as equally
> treacherous?

Far more dangerous; because "well known" fixed hazards such as hidden
rocks or a swallow, can be anticipated and precautions taken. In the
example you gave, they knew where the body would be trapped.

Flood debris hazards are completely unpredictable (time, place,
nature), the danger is random, unmapped and unaccountable. There's no
way for an observer or potential rescuer to even guess where a missing
person and craft might be trapped underwater.

I'm not talking about dissolved "pathogens" but large hard submerged
debris like parts of flood-destroyed buildings, vehicles, machinery,
wires, livestock, branches etc.

Janet UK.

On 9/16/2013 7:26 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 20:55:44 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> ...
>> Flood water often carries raw sewage and other potential toxins it may
>> have picked up. No thanks, I'll stay on dry land and not put rescue
>> personnel at risk either. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.
>
> Flood water contains more maybe, butALL of Mother Nature's water MAY
> contain pathologen(s). How pure do you insist your water be, and what
> are you doing with it? You gonna drink it? You gonna irrigate a wound
> with it?
>
> John Kuthe...
>

I trust the water coming out of my faucet because it has been treated.
Flood water may carry raw sewage, dog shit, garbage, chemicals from
flooded industrial complexes, cleaning fluids from a flooded
supermarket, oil and gas from flooded cars and probably more.

But don't let me stop you. If you want to jump in your little boat and
take a ride, go right ahead. And don't expect the rescue crews to risk
their lives if you have a problem.

On Monday, September 16, 2013 9:20:18 AM UTC-4, John Kuthe >
> I never said I woulkd not cooperate fully with The Govt's rescue
> efforts. But why can't those able have a little fun at the same time?
>
> John Kuthe...

The problem is that there are a lot of
idiots who put themselves at risk
without the adequate skills. (Of
course that should be their problem.)
However, I do agree that there is much too much "Big Brother" attitude. After
all, should we ban all back country extreme skiing which I expect is no less dangerous?

While we're at it, no more
mountaineering, scuba diving,
parachuting or motorcycles. Jay
walking should be punishable with a
prison term and steeple chasing should be banned.

http://www.ricardfisher.com

notbob wrote:
>
> On 2013-09-15, Ophelia > wrote:
>
> >> There's a fine line between crazy and stupid! I'd not put on that
> >> water unlelss I KNEW it was a clear float for miles below, and a
> >> guaranteed easy exit point.
> >
> > Too right!
>
> The CO governor came on TV this morning and declared anyone caught
> rafting or kayaking the floodwaters would be arrested. I personally
> don't understand it, except to take the heat off overworked rescue
> workers. CO's biggest industry, other than beef, is river
> rafting/kayaking. Ppl die every year doing it. That's what it's all
> about. Dancing with death.
>
> nb

Creeping nanny-statism...

I went kayaking in CO a month or so ago (Arkansas river, Lower Brown's
Canyon) and had a blast.

"Ophelia" wrote in message ...



"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 11:21:48 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>>
>>Absolutely terrifying
>>
>>
>>http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HShXhJMQdA
>>
>>
>>--
>
> Yep! That'as a LOTTA rain really fast. Best to stay away from that
> fast moving water if you don't know what you are doing. I saw a video
> of some crazy kayayers acrtually kayakiing a flooded Boulder Creek:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dD817QzDW8
>
> The spectator commebnts at about 3:00 about how to get OUT of the
> creek would be my crucial consideration. The kayaker does surf the
> standing wave pretty well, but then WHEN blown off the wave gets
> washed down VERY fast!
>
> When you know what you are doing in a kayak (like this guy evidently
> does) it's awfully tempting to get out and boat the flood. Hope this
> kayaker was OK. He probably was.

Crazy

~~~~~~~~~
I have never lived through anything like that, but we did have a flood some
years ago--11 inches in 24 hours. Some mobile homes were washed from one
end of town to the other, and one woman drowned when they tried to help her
get out of her window into a boat. I was safe, but I woke up with water
pouring through a ceiling light onto my feet. I ran to the circuit box and
threw off the power. The landlord claimed that I could still have used
electricity, even the light with water pouring through it. Not for me! I
am very leery of water + electricity. Police knocked on the apartment door
next to mine. The man who lived there was a faculty member with ROTC and
had emergency training. They asked him to get his boat out for rescue. He
did that, and he told me afterwards of floating in his boat *over* a bridge
that is usually fairly high above a little creek. He was able to rescue
people who were clinging high up in trees.

Even with what I just said (and the loss of several lives), I can hardly
envision the destruction and fear that would go with a flood such as what
the people in Colorado are facing now. We drove through Big Thompson Canyon
several years after the 1976 flood. The canyon walls were so steep that I
think most people would not be able to get out of the way of fast-rising
water. My prayers and heartfelt wishes are with them.

MaryL

On 9/16/2013 11:27 AM, Helpful person wrote:
> On Monday, September 16, 2013 9:20:18 AM UTC-4, John Kuthe >
>> I never said I woulkd not cooperate fully with The Govt's rescue
>> efforts. But why can't those able have a little fun at the same time?
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>
> The problem is that there are a lot of
> idiots who put themselves at risk
> without the adequate skills. (Of
> course that should be their problem.)
> However, I do agree that there is much too much "Big Brother" attitude. After
> all, should we ban all back country extreme skiing which I expect is no less dangerous?
>
> While we're at it, no more
> mountaineering, scuba diving,
> parachuting or motorcycles. Jay
> walking should be punishable with a
> prison term and steeple chasing should be banned.
>
> http://www.ricardfisher.com
>

Jaywalking will get you fined.

None of that stuff should be banned, but you should also have to pay for
your rescue when you screw up, not my tax dollars. Not the normal
things, just the extreme off the regular path type of stuff like
climbing the side of a rock face.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:27:42 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person
> wrote:

> On Monday, September 16, 2013 9:20:18 AM UTC-4, John Kuthe >
> > I never said I woulkd not cooperate fully with The Govt's rescue
> > efforts. But why can't those able have a little fun at the same time?
> >
> > John Kuthe...
>
> The problem is that there are a lot of
> idiots who put themselves at risk
> without the adequate skills. (Of
> course that should be their problem.)
> However, I do agree that there is much too much "Big Brother" attitude. After
> all, should we ban all back country extreme skiing which I expect is no less dangerous?

Ski resorts ban back country extreme skiing, however helicopter skiing
is not banned because there's no resort to sue should the idiots run
into trouble and they'll be dead by the time a rescue team gets
there... if it doesn't just wait until Spring.
>
> While we're at it, no more
> mountaineering, scuba diving,
> parachuting or motorcycles. Jay
> walking should be punishable with a
> prison term and steeple chasing should be banned.
>
You need to be certified or have a licence to scuba dive,
parachute or drive a motorcycle. Jay walking is against the law and
fined. Mountaineering and steeple chasing are self-regulatory because
those who can't, die quickly.

Most of those extreme sports idiots do what they do because they know
they'll be rescued if they screw up. If they weren't counting on Big
Brother to step in, they'd do it where Big Brother wouldn't be around
to rescue them.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:03:11 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> you should also have to pay for
> your rescue when you screw up, not my tax dollars.

Agreed and there should be money up front, no pleading poverty should
something happen that requires a rescue team.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 10:50:57 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> notbob wrote:
> >
> > On 2013-09-15, Ophelia > wrote:
> >
> > >> There's a fine line between crazy and stupid! I'd not put on that
> > >> water unlelss I KNEW it was a clear float for miles below, and a
> > >> guaranteed easy exit point.
> > >
> > > Too right!
> >
> > The CO governor came on TV this morning and declared anyone caught
> > rafting or kayaking the floodwaters would be arrested. I personally
> > don't understand it, except to take the heat off overworked rescue
> > workers. CO's biggest industry, other than beef, is river
> > rafting/kayaking. Ppl die every year doing it. That's what it's all
> > about. Dancing with death.
> >
> > nb
>
> Creeping nanny-statism...
>
> I went kayaking in CO a month or so ago (Arkansas river, Lower Brown's
> Canyon) and had a blast.

Except this is the end of summer and the water is tame.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"MaryL" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Ophelia" wrote in message ...
>
>
>
> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 11:21:48 +0100, "Ophelia"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I hope no one here lives there and if they do they are safe
>>>
>>>Absolutely terrifying
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news
>>>
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HShXhJMQdA
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>
>> Yep! That'as a LOTTA rain really fast. Best to stay away from that
>> fast moving water if you don't know what you are doing. I saw a video
>> of some crazy kayayers acrtually kayakiing a flooded Boulder Creek:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dD817QzDW8
>>
>> The spectator commebnts at about 3:00 about how to get OUT of the
>> creek would be my crucial consideration. The kayaker does surf the
>> standing wave pretty well, but then WHEN blown off the wave gets
>> washed down VERY fast!
>>
>> When you know what you are doing in a kayak (like this guy evidently
>> does) it's awfully tempting to get out and boat the flood. Hope this
>> kayaker was OK. He probably was.
>
> Crazy
>
> ~~~~~~~~~
> I have never lived through anything like that, but we did have a flood
> some years ago--11 inches in 24 hours. Some mobile homes were washed from
> one end of town to the other, and one woman drowned when they tried to
> help her get out of her window into a boat. I was safe, but I woke up
> with water pouring through a ceiling light onto my feet. I ran to the
> circuit box and threw off the power. The landlord claimed that I could
> still have used electricity, even the light with water pouring through it.
> Not for me! I am very leery of water + electricity. Police knocked on
> the apartment door next to mine. The man who lived there was a faculty
> member with ROTC and had emergency training. They asked him to get his
> boat out for rescue. He did that, and he told me afterwards of floating
> in his boat *over* a bridge that is usually fairly high above a little
> creek. He was able to rescue people who were clinging high up in trees.
>
> Even with what I just said (and the loss of several lives), I can hardly
> envision the destruction and fear that would go with a flood such as what
> the people in Colorado are facing now. We drove through Big Thompson
> Canyon several years after the 1976 flood. The canyon walls were so steep
> that I think most people would not be able to get out of the way of
> fast-rising water. My prayers and heartfelt wishes are with them.

Yes! I've never had to live through what you describe!

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/