On 10/15/2013 6:30 AM, sf wrote:
>
> As a kid, my son didn't build anything beyond Legos or take things
> apart. I was kind of worried about his future because I didn't see
> any passions - other than the police department. I didn't want him to
> do that because they are more disrespected than teachers and you can
> get killed on the job. It turned out that I shouldn't have worried
> although I did. He worked at Schwab for 12 years, going as high as he
> could in his department without someone at the top quitting or
> transferring. He suddenly quit his job last year and took a fire
> academy course... another thing that left us shaking our heads because
> people are shooting firemen now too. At least he put that training to
> work, because there was a rather large fire at scout camp this summer
> that he and another gentleman put out. Thank god he'd had wild fire
> training or else it would have been yet another fire in a National
> Forest on the six o'clock news. He's working for a non-profit at the
> moment, but has irons in the fire to get back to the corporate life at
> a much better salary than before. In the mean time, I guess you could
> say that he's living his fantasies.
>
He sounds like a driven guy with a lot of guts. Congrats.

In article >,
Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>On 10/15/2013 9:11 AM, George Leppla wrote:
>> On 10/15/2013 7:41 AM, wrote:
>
>
>>
>> We are telling our age when we talk about "timing belts". Back in the
>> day there were separate belts for water pump, generator (later
>> alternator), air conditioning and power steering. Things evolved and
>> some engines were designed so that one belt ran more than one item.

If you really want to show your age, talk about the timing _chain_.
I think my 1974 Impala was the last car I owned that had one.

Cindy Hamilton
--

On 10/15/2013 12:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> No, timing belts are not the same as the serpentine belt. They are
> internal and turn the camshaft. Most engines have timing chains that do
> not need replacement, but many have internal belts.
> http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?br...cation_id=3487
> If you have an interference engine and the belt brakes, the valve smash
> the tops of the piston and the engine is pretty much trash.
>


You are correct... and I was not specific enough in my answer. Many
people think the belt they see is the timing belt when it seldom is...
and as you point out, it is usually a chain, not a belt.

George L

On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:53:23 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

> On 10/15/2013 6:30 AM, sf wrote:
> >
> > As a kid, my son didn't build anything beyond Legos or take things
> > apart. I was kind of worried about his future because I didn't see
> > any passions - other than the police department. I didn't want him to
> > do that because they are more disrespected than teachers and you can
> > get killed on the job. It turned out that I shouldn't have worried
> > although I did. He worked at Schwab for 12 years, going as high as he
> > could in his department without someone at the top quitting or
> > transferring. He suddenly quit his job last year and took a fire
> > academy course... another thing that left us shaking our heads because
> > people are shooting firemen now too. At least he put that training to
> > work, because there was a rather large fire at scout camp this summer
> > that he and another gentleman put out. Thank god he'd had wild fire
> > training or else it would have been yet another fire in a National
> > Forest on the six o'clock news. He's working for a non-profit at the
> > moment, but has irons in the fire to get back to the corporate life at
> > a much better salary than before. In the mean time, I guess you could
> > say that he's living his fantasies.
> >
> He sounds like a driven guy with a lot of guts. Congrats.

Thanks and kudos to his understanding wife!

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 10/15/2013 7:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> No, timing belts are not the same as the serpentine belt. They are
> internal and turn the camshaft. Most engines have timing chains that do
> not need replacement, but many have internal belts.
> http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?br...cation_id=3487
> If you have an interference engine and the belt brakes, the valve smash
> the tops of the piston and the engine is pretty much trash.

I used to own Fiat 124d which was the first car to use reinforced rubber
timing belts in a twin cam engine. Breakage was a problem and when there
was a Fiat 124 stalled along the side of the road, you could pretty much
assume they had a broken belt. I got good at changing those belts. There
was tools to measure and set the belt tension but I didn't need no
stinkin' gauges. :-)

On 2013-10-15 9:11 AM, George Leppla wrote:

> We are telling our age when we talk about "timing belts". Back in the
> day there were separate belts for water pump, generator (later
> alternator), air conditioning and power steering. Things evolved and
> some engines were designed so that one belt ran more than one item.
>
> Now it is a "serpentine" belt and in many cases, one belt runs
> everything. It breaks... nothing runs. I replace it every 50,000 miles.
>
>

I'm guessing you are not a mechanic George. There used to be timing
chains on car engines but a number of years ago they switched over to
timing belt. There are covers over them that have to be removed to
change the belt.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 17:35:56 +0100, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>> Good luck to him if that is what he really wants to do!
>
> This one will be as if it was custom tailored to his strengths and
> interests. I'm really excited about the proposition - hopefully, it
> will materialize. Until then, he feels like he's accomplishing
> something worthwhile for society on this job. The pay sucks, but it's
> high in job satisfaction.
>
>> Why fantasy?
>> Without dreams no one would do anything, let alone anything different!
>
> True, but his RL dream jobs are too dangerous AFAIC. I am his mother
> and I want him to be safe.

I do understand


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2013-10-15 3:19 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 10/15/2013 12:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> No, timing belts are not the same as the serpentine belt. They are
>> internal and turn the camshaft. Most engines have timing chains that do
>> not need replacement, but many have internal belts.
>> http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?br...cation_id=3487
>> If you have an interference engine and the belt brakes, the valve smash
>> the tops of the piston and the engine is pretty much trash.
>>
>
>
> You are correct... and I was not specific enough in my answer. Many
> people think the belt they see is the timing belt when it seldom is...
> and as you point out, it is usually a chain, not a belt.
>
>


Now you are showing your age again. Most modern engines use timing belts.

On 10/15/2013 4:37 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2013-10-15 3:19 PM, George Leppla wrote:

>> You are correct... and I was not specific enough in my answer. Many
>> people think the belt they see is the timing belt when it seldom is...
>> and as you point out, it is usually a chain, not a belt.
>>
>>
>
>
> Now you are showing your age again. Most modern engines use timing belts.
>

Yep... I am 63 and it has been more than 20 years since I pulled,
stripped and re-built an engine. I stopped messing with them because 1)
I wasn't interested enough to keep up with the changes in technology, 2)
I don't work on cars often enough to make it feasible to buy the
specialty tools and diagnostic equipment and 3) I have enough money to
pay a qualified mechanic to do the jobs I can't or don't want to do.

I don't even change my own oil any more. For $29, I let the local shop
do it and give the rest of the car the once over. I guess I would save
about $10 if I did it myself, but I'm too old, fat and lazy to go
rolling under a car just to save $10.

George L

"George Leppla" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/15/2013 7:41 AM, wrote:
>
>> Yes agreed, I have done that with my ten year old. The mechanic who
>> changed my tires twice a year usually suggests regular things that
>> it's time to do to keep it in good shape. Those timing belts being
>> one. I hate it but figure it's the cost of reliability.
>
> We are telling our age when we talk about "timing belts". Back in the day
> there were separate belts for water pump, generator (later alternator),
> air conditioning and power steering. Things evolved and some engines were
> designed so that one belt ran more than one item.
>
> Now it is a "serpentine" belt and in many cases, one belt runs everything.
> It breaks... nothing runs. I replace it every 50,000 miles.

I just replaced mine a while back.

On 2013-10-15 5:53 PM, George Leppla wrote:

> Yep... I am 63 and it has been more than 20 years since I pulled,
> stripped and re-built an engine. I stopped messing with them because 1)
> I wasn't interested enough to keep up with the changes in technology, 2)
> I don't work on cars often enough to make it feasible to buy the
> specialty tools and diagnostic equipment and 3) I have enough money to
> pay a qualified mechanic to do the jobs I can't or don't want to do.
>
> I don't even change my own oil any more. For $29, I let the local shop
> do it and give the rest of the car the once over. I guess I would save
> about $10 if I did it myself, but I'm too old, fat and lazy to go
> rolling under a car just to save $10.
>

I used to change my oil when I had a pickup truck with good clearance
under it. Like you say, the oil change joints do it so cheaply it is
not worth the work and the mess.

I do my own oil changes on my motorcycle. It costs me about $30 for the
filtre, squash washer and oil. It costs over $80 to have it done at the
local bike shop. So that is $50 it costs me to save me 10 minutes of work.

On 10/15/2013 6:12 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

>
> I used to change my oil when I had a pickup truck with good clearance
> under it. Like you say, the oil change joints do it so cheaply it is
> not worth the work and the mess.

I bought a '91 Buick Regal and did the first oil change on it. It was
the last change I ever did too. Very difficult to get to the filter and
it was easier to just hand over a $20 bill. Some subsequent cars would
be easier, but my body is not as agile these days either.

On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:00:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On 10/15/2013 6:12 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> >
> > I used to change my oil when I had a pickup truck with good clearance
> > under it. Like you say, the oil change joints do it so cheaply it is
> > not worth the work and the mess.
>
> I bought a '91 Buick Regal and did the first oil change on it. It was
> the last change I ever did too. Very difficult to get to the filter and
> it was easier to just hand over a $20 bill. Some subsequent cars would
> be easier, but my body is not as agile these days either.

I'm good with paying someone to change the oil.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 10/15/2013 6:12 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2013-10-15 5:53 PM, George Leppla wrote:

>> I don't even change my own oil any more. For $29, I let the local shop
>> do it and give the rest of the car the once over. I guess I would save
>> about $10 if I did it myself, but I'm too old, fat and lazy to go
>> rolling under a car just to save $10.

> I used to change my oil when I had a pickup truck with good clearance
> under it. Like you say, the oil change joints do it so cheaply it is
> not worth the work and the mess.

They have it down to a science, and they top off other things
like the windshield wiper fluid. Could I do it, of course, but
why. Then for a couple extra dollars, they wash my car and clean
the interior. It's like a day at the spa for my car for not much
money.

I really don't see any glory in getting all dirty doing that
stuff anymore.

nancy

"George Leppla" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/15/2013 4:37 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2013-10-15 3:19 PM, George Leppla wrote:
>
>>> You are correct... and I was not specific enough in my answer. Many
>>> people think the belt they see is the timing belt when it seldom is...
>>> and as you point out, it is usually a chain, not a belt.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Now you are showing your age again. Most modern engines use timing belts.
>>
>
> Yep... I am 63 and it has been more than 20 years since I pulled, stripped
> and re-built an engine. I stopped messing with them because 1) I wasn't
> interested enough to keep up with the changes in technology, 2) I don't
> work on cars often enough to make it feasible to buy the specialty tools
> and diagnostic equipment and 3) I have enough money to pay a qualified
> mechanic to do the jobs I can't or don't want to do.
>
> I don't even change my own oil any more. For $29, I let the local shop do
> it and give the rest of the car the once over. I guess I would save about
> $10 if I did it myself, but I'm too old, fat and lazy to go rolling under
> a car just to save $10.
>
> George L

My BIL is a mechanic and he has to go to college on a routine basis at night
just to keep up with the latest stuff.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/15/2013 6:12 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>
>> I used to change my oil when I had a pickup truck with good clearance
>> under it. Like you say, the oil change joints do it so cheaply it is
>> not worth the work and the mess.
>
> I bought a '91 Buick Regal and did the first oil change on it. It was the
> last change I ever did too. Very difficult to get to the filter and it
> was easier to just hand over a $20 bill. Some subsequent cars would be
> easier, but my body is not as agile these days either.

I never tried. My dad said you don't really wind up saving any money
especially since you have to take the used oil somewhere and pay to dump it.
But they do not cost $20 here. More like $80! I just had one done at Jiffy
Lube. My van needed one and I had gift cards. Then wouldn't you know, my
mechanic sent me a coupon for a free one! But it had to be used right away.
So I lost out there.

On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 22:07:54 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:


>
>I never tried. My dad said you don't really wind up saving any money
>especially since you have to take the used oil somewhere and pay to dump it.
>But they do not cost $20 here. More like $80! I just had one done at Jiffy
>Lube. My van needed one and I had gift cards. Then wouldn't you know, my
>mechanic sent me a coupon for a free one! But it had to be used right away.
>So I lost out there.

It was $20 back then, closer to $35 now. I have a receipt on my desk
for 33.95 for my recent change at a local independent shop If you are
paying $80, perhaps you need to find a better shop. That seems very
high unless they are doing tire rotation at the same time.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 22:07:54 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I never tried. My dad said you don't really wind up saving any money
>>especially since you have to take the used oil somewhere and pay to dump
>>it.
>>But they do not cost $20 here. More like $80! I just had one done at
>>Jiffy
>>Lube. My van needed one and I had gift cards. Then wouldn't you know, my
>>mechanic sent me a coupon for a free one! But it had to be used right
>>away.
>>So I lost out there.
>
> It was $20 back then, closer to $35 now. I have a receipt on my desk
> for 33.95 for my recent change at a local independent shop If you are
> paying $80, perhaps you need to find a better shop. That seems very
> high unless they are doing tire rotation at the same time.

I think that's what I am usually charged at Jiffy Lube although I try not to
use them. I don't see the prices listed online. But often when I have been
there, they find something else that I need so it the LOF might not really
be that much. I also get some kind of oil that costs more. But for some
time now I have been trying to get the LOFs at the dealer. The problem is
that the dealer is pretty far away. I don't know of any good mechanics in
this area. Or I should say mechanics that don't rip you off. The one
nearest us was going to charge $6,000 to fix my husband's car. He took it
to a place in Lynnwood and they charged $2,000! There are a lot of good
mechanics in that city but it's just not very convenient to where we live.

On 2013-10-16 5:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> I never tried. My dad said you don't really wind up saving any money
>> especially since you have to take the used oil somewhere and pay to dump it.
>> But they do not cost $20 here. More like $80! I just had one done at Jiffy
>> Lube. My van needed one and I had gift cards. Then wouldn't you know, my
>> mechanic sent me a coupon for a free one! But it had to be used right away.
>> So I lost out there.
>
> It was $20 back then, closer to $35 now. I have a receipt on my desk
> for 33.95 for my recent change at a local independent shop If you are
> paying $80, perhaps you need to find a better shop. That seems very
> high unless they are doing tire rotation at the same time.
>

Julie lives in a different reality.

In article >,
Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>I rather need mine because one person who lives here always throws food in
>the sink and leaves it despite being told not to do that. He did it when we
>didn't have a disposal and it was a pain to have to pick it all out.

Julie, I've been curious for a while. Why do you write
"one person who lives here" or (often) "someone"? In this case,
it's obvious that it's your husband.

Cindy Hamilton
--

On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 05:56:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 22:07:54 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I never tried. My dad said you don't really wind up saving any money
>>especially since you have to take the used oil somewhere and pay to dump it.
>>But they do not cost $20 here. More like $80! I just had one done at Jiffy
>>Lube. My van needed one and I had gift cards. Then wouldn't you know, my
>>mechanic sent me a coupon for a free one! But it had to be used right away.
>>So I lost out there.
>
>It was $20 back then, closer to $35 now. I have a receipt on my desk
>for 33.95 for my recent change at a local independent shop If you are
>paying $80, perhaps you need to find a better shop. That seems very
>high unless they are doing tire rotation at the same time.

The shop I use changes my car's oil for a couple of dollars more than
the price of the oil and filter... my vehicle takes 8 qts... with oil
and filter I last paid $23. But what I do is have the oil changed
when I have the NYS Inspection, it's up on the rack anyway so the lube
is no real extra time or labor. The last time I had my tires rotated
too. Incorporating different jobs keeps the cost down on all of them
compared with having each done individually... saves separate trips to
the shop too. I used to work on vehicals but haven't for at least the
last 30 years... there really isn't much one can do anymore without
the special computer, and scads of special tools, can't even change
ones own battery anymore, gotta have a specail shunt battery or you
can lose all your vehicals computer settings, and it never paid to
change ones own oil, invariably you'll ruin articles of clothing that
cost more than having the job done. Plus crawling under cars is not
safe.

On 10/15/2013 2:30 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Some things have to be changed as part of routine maintenance. You get
> some leeway with filters, depending on usage. Air filters can be blown
> out and used a little longer of the vehicle has not been used in dusty
> conditions. I get a lot of life out of brakes because I don't do much
> city driving, and I usually drive a standard and use the transmission
> for slowing.
>
> Some things MUST be changed regularly, like timing belts. Some engines
> will simply stop working when the timing belt snaps. In other engines, a
> bad timing belt can cause serious engine problems. It is relatively
> cheap to replace, but can be very expensive to neglect.

As far as I know, the only engine that can continue running after
breaking a timing belt is an old Subaru engine because they used two
belts. That's the only car that I've ever had a belt break on me. The
recommended belt change interval is 60,000 miles. Mine broke on me at
61,000 miles. Those Fuji Heavy Industries engineers are uncanny!

The heart of a car is it's engine. That Sube had a bad heart - weak and
lifeless. That's the last time I listen to hippies on the subject of
buying cars. The engines are better these days but my experience was a
horrible one and the damage has been done.

x-no-archive: yes

On 10/16/2013 12:15 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> The heart of a car is it's engine. That Sube had a bad heart - weak
> and lifeless. That's the last time I listen to hippies on the subject
> of buying cars. The engines are better these days but my experience
> was a horrible one and the damage has been done.

Mt 1983 Subaru GL is my least favorite of all the new cars I've ever
bought.

Susan

On 10/16/2013 5:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 22:07:54 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I never tried. My dad said you don't really wind up saving any money
>> especially since you have to take the used oil somewhere and pay to dump it.
>> But they do not cost $20 here. More like $80! I just had one done at Jiffy
>> Lube. My van needed one and I had gift cards. Then wouldn't you know, my
>> mechanic sent me a coupon for a free one! But it had to be used right away.
>> So I lost out there.
>
> It was $20 back then, closer to $35 now. I have a receipt on my desk
> for 33.95 for my recent change at a local independent shop If you are
> paying $80, perhaps you need to find a better shop. That seems very
> high unless they are doing tire rotation at the same time.
>
I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is
a ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do the
oil change.

Jill

On 2013-10-16 2:49 PM, jmcquown wrote:

>> It was $20 back then, closer to $35 now. I have a receipt on my desk
>> for 33.95 for my recent change at a local independent shop If you are
>> paying $80, perhaps you need to find a better shop. That seems very
>> high unless they are doing tire rotation at the same time.
>>
> I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
> filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is
> a ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do the
> oil change.

Well, look who claims to be paying $80. Much of what she says is
bullshit at the best of times.

On 10/16/2013 2:49 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
> filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is
> a ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do
> the oil change.
>
> Jill

Some vehicles use synthetic oil, which costs a lot more.

But still...

Susan

On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:02:01 -0400, Susan > wrote:

> On 10/16/2013 2:49 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> > I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
> > filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is
> > a ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do
> > the oil change.
> >
> > Jill
>
> Some vehicles use synthetic oil, which costs a lot more.
>
> But still...
>
She called it a "special oil" and you're right. It's not cheap.
http://www.sanjosemercedesservice.co...Fcs9QgodhmQAsQ

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 10/16/2013 3:09 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:02:01 -0400, Susan > wrote:
>
>> On 10/16/2013 2:49 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>> I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
>>> filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is
>>> a ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do
>>> the oil change.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> Some vehicles use synthetic oil, which costs a lot more.
>>
>> But still...
>>
> She called it a "special oil" and you're right. It's not cheap.
> http://www.sanjosemercedesservice.co...Fcs9QgodhmQAsQ
>

Didn't she say she has an older van? If so, synthetic is a waste of money.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2013-10-16 5:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>> I never tried. My dad said you don't really wind up saving any money
>>> especially since you have to take the used oil somewhere and pay to dump
>>> it.
>>> But they do not cost $20 here. More like $80! I just had one done at
>>> Jiffy
>>> Lube. My van needed one and I had gift cards. Then wouldn't you know,
>>> my
>>> mechanic sent me a coupon for a free one! But it had to be used right
>>> away.
>>> So I lost out there.
>>
>> It was $20 back then, closer to $35 now. I have a receipt on my desk
>> for 33.95 for my recent change at a local independent shop If you are
>> paying $80, perhaps you need to find a better shop. That seems very
>> high unless they are doing tire rotation at the same time.
>>
>
> Julie lives in a different reality.

Well at least my reality doesn't include taking potshots at people 24/7. Oh
sure, I do take them! Just have better things to do with most of my time.
Like roasting fennel.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/16/2013 5:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 22:07:54 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I never tried. My dad said you don't really wind up saving any money
>>> especially since you have to take the used oil somewhere and pay to dump
>>> it.
>>> But they do not cost $20 here. More like $80! I just had one done at
>>> Jiffy
>>> Lube. My van needed one and I had gift cards. Then wouldn't you know,
>>> my
>>> mechanic sent me a coupon for a free one! But it had to be used right
>>> away.
>>> So I lost out there.
>>
>> It was $20 back then, closer to $35 now. I have a receipt on my desk
>> for 33.95 for my recent change at a local independent shop If you are
>> paying $80, perhaps you need to find a better shop. That seems very
>> high unless they are doing tire rotation at the same time.
>>
> I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
> filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is a
> ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do the oil
> change.

$29 to include all the filters? That would just not be in my van! Even if
I bought the cabin air filter myself it would be more than that. The $80 is
for Jiffy Lube. Far cheaper at the dealership.

"Susan" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/16/2013 2:49 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
>> filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is a
>> ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do the oil
>> change.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Some vehicles use synthetic oil, which costs a lot more.
>
> But still...
>
> Susan

I use synthetic oil in my van.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/16/2013 3:09 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:02:01 -0400, Susan > wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/16/2013 2:49 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>> I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
>>>> filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is
>>>> a ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do
>>>> the oil change.
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>
>>> Some vehicles use synthetic oil, which costs a lot more.
>>>
>>> But still...
>>>
>> She called it a "special oil" and you're right. It's not cheap.
>> http://www.sanjosemercedesservice.co...Fcs9QgodhmQAsQ
>>
>
> Didn't she say she has an older van? If so, synthetic is a waste of
> money.

It's a 2001. I am using the recommended oil.

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:52:40 AM UTC-10, Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>
> On 10/16/2013 12:15 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> > The heart of a car is it's engine. That Sube had a bad heart - weak
>
> > and lifeless. That's the last time I listen to hippies on the subject
>
> > of buying cars. The engines are better these days but my experience
>
> > was a horrible one and the damage has been done.
>
>
>
> Mt 1983 Subaru GL is my least favorite of all the new cars I've ever
>
> bought.
>
>
>
> Susan

You have my sympathy. The engine was a gutless wonder and the power loss was noticeable when you turned on the AC. The ratios on the 5-speed was awful.. The first 2 gears were too low and the jump between 2nd and 3rd was too big. Ha ha, I could go on and on...

On Thu, 17 Oct 2013 02:31:34 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

> On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:52:40 AM UTC-10, Susan wrote:
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/16/2013 12:15 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > > The heart of a car is it's engine. That Sube had a bad heart - weak
> >
> > > and lifeless. That's the last time I listen to hippies on the subject
> >
> > > of buying cars. The engines are better these days but my experience
> >
> > > was a horrible one and the damage has been done.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mt 1983 Subaru GL is my least favorite of all the new cars I've ever
> >
> > bought.
> >
> >
> >
> > Susan
>
> You have my sympathy. The engine was a gutless wonder and the power loss was noticeable when you turned on the AC. The ratios on the 5-speed was awful. The first 2 gears were too low and the jump between 2nd and 3rd was too big. Ha ha, I could go on and on...

I absolutely hated driving 4-bangers before they were made peppier
with 4 valves per cylinder, turbo and dual turbo charging. No power,
no guts. I'd drive around a hill, rather than over it back in those
days.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 10/17/2013 5:31 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:52:40 AM UTC-10, Susan wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/16/2013 12:15 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>> The heart of a car is it's engine. That Sube had a bad heart - weak
>>
>>> and lifeless. That's the last time I listen to hippies on the subject
>>
>>> of buying cars. The engines are better these days but my experience
>>
>>> was a horrible one and the damage has been done.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mt 1983 Subaru GL is my least favorite of all the new cars I've ever
>>
>> bought.
>>
>>
>>
>> Susan
>
> You have my sympathy. The engine was a gutless wonder and the power loss
> was noticeable when you turned on the AC. The ratios on the 5-speed was awful.
> The first 2 gears were too low and the jump between 2nd and 3rd was
too big.
> Ha ha, I could go on and on...
>
Sounds about on par with the infamous Chrysler 'K Car'. My brother
and I were visiting our parents in the 1980's and his Toyota broke down
on the drive home. We got stuck in Florence, Alabama. Fortunately they
had a Toyota dealership with a garage. (And a motel next door that
allowed pets; we'd taken my dog with us.) I had to be at work the next
day. The only rental available was a K Car. Wow! It *almost* got up
to 50 miles per hour! I hate to think if we'd had to drive uphill... LOL

Jill

On 10/17/2013 3:26 AM, sf wrote:
> I absolutely hated driving 4-bangers before they were made peppier
> with 4 valves per cylinder, turbo and dual turbo charging. No power,
> no guts. I'd drive around a hill, rather than over it back in those
> days.
>
When I was in Wales, I was driving a Vauxhall Insignia which would be
considered a larger car in Europe. That weighed in at about 3300 lbs and
had a tiny 2.0 L 4-banger. I would have never guessed that it was a four
or that it was a turbo diesel. The engine felt like some kind of magical
power delivery system with the flattest torque curve of any engine I've
ever driven. Passing other cars at 70 MPH was not a problem nor was it
dramatic or tentative. Just push down on the pedal slightly and pass
with impunity.

My estimate was that I was getting over 40 MPG. Getting that kind of
performance out of a 4-banger calls for technology most sophisticated.
Most of the drivers in Wales drove diesels which was a surprise to me.
Diesels have pretty much died in America. These days, the gasoline 3.X
liter V6 is king in larger vehicles.

On 10/17/2013 5:40 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
> Sounds about on par with the infamous Chrysler 'K Car'. My brother
> and I were visiting our parents in the 1980's and his Toyota broke down
> on the drive home. We got stuck in Florence, Alabama. Fortunately they
> had a Toyota dealership with a garage. (And a motel next door that
> allowed pets; we'd taken my dog with us.) I had to be at work the next
> day. The only rental available was a K Car. Wow! It *almost* got up
> to 50 miles per hour! I hate to think if we'd had to drive uphill... LOL
>
> Jill

You're right about the K-car - a low point in American Automobiles.
OTOH, they sold a ton of them and when Chrysler build a van on the K-car
platform and created a new kind of vehicle, the mini-van, it changed the
world and could be the reason Chrysler is still around today. You can
make a silk purse out of sow's ear and the K-car could be called their
worst and best product. My favorite K-car variant was the Dodge Dynasty
which I couldn't help but call "Die Nasty."

On 10/17/2013 9:26 AM, sf wrote:

> I absolutely hated driving 4-bangers before they were made peppier
> with 4 valves per cylinder, turbo and dual turbo charging. No power,
> no guts. I'd drive around a hill, rather than over it back in those
> days.
>

Most were terrible but are "acceptable" now. My 2.0 Turbo though, is
one of the faster cars I've owned over the years. Showed up a V-8 Camero
recently. 0-60 in 5.8 seconds. I really want to check the top speed,
but have not found a safe place to do so. Top I hit was 123 mph, but it
should read 140.

"Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 10/16/2013 3:09 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:02:01 -0400, Susan > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/16/2013 2:49 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>> I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
>>>>> filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is
>>>>> a ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do
>>>>> the oil change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jill
>>>>
>>>> Some vehicles use synthetic oil, which costs a lot more.
>>>>
>>>> But still...
>>>>
>>> She called it a "special oil" and you're right. It's not cheap.
>>> http://www.sanjosemercedesservice.co...Fcs9QgodhmQAsQ
>>>
>>
>> Didn't she say she has an older van? If so, synthetic is a waste of > money.
>
> It's a 2001. I am using the recommended oil.

Recommended by whom? Jiffy Lube?

--
jinx the minx

On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 21:26:49 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>> On 10/16/2013 5:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 22:07:54 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I never tried. My dad said you don't really wind up saving any money
>>>> especially since you have to take the used oil somewhere and pay to dump
>>>> it.
>>>> But they do not cost $20 here. More like $80! I just had one done at
>>>> Jiffy
>>>> Lube. My van needed one and I had gift cards. Then wouldn't you know,
>>>> my
>>>> mechanic sent me a coupon for a free one! But it had to be used right
>>>> away.
>>>> So I lost out there.
>>>
>>> It was $20 back then, closer to $35 now. I have a receipt on my desk
>>> for 33.95 for my recent change at a local independent shop If you are
>>> paying $80, perhaps you need to find a better shop. That seems very
>>> high unless they are doing tire rotation at the same time.
>>>
>> I pay, at most, $29. Less if I have a coupon. They change all the
>> filters, top off all the other fluids and check the belts, too. $80 is a
>> ridiculous price unless, perhaps, you're having the dealership do the oil
>> change.
>
>$29 to include all the filters? That would just not be in my van! Even if
>I bought the cabin air filter myself it would be more than that. The $80 is
>for Jiffy Lube. Far cheaper at the dealership.

Cabin air filters don't need changing with every oil change, they're
changed maybe every 50,000 miles (normal road conditions), and they
are very easy to change oneself, easier than a vacuum cleaner bag (no
oil to soil yourself), and actually it's better to do it yourself so
you can vacuum the space it goes into. And most cabin filters are
washable so can be reused a few times. I change the cabin filter on
my tractor myself, and I know it's been done, a new one costs $44 ,buy
on line he http://www.jenningsequipment.com/jeonlinestore.htm
If I let the dealer change it they'd charge me double plus labor...
labor is screwing two wingnuts... and I'd not really know that they
actually changed it... typically they clean it with compressed air,
not the best method.