On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 11:53:58 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:



>> Exactly. Corned beef is *cured* beef. Meat curing is not something
>> to fool around with without first educating oneself. If you truly
>> mean to make your own corned beef I *seriously* recommend you study
>> this book... curing meat incorrectly is very dangerous, you can kill
>> people... I refer to my copy very often:
>> http://www.amazon.com/Great-Sausage-...keywords=kutas
>
>Thanks very much! I'll have a look at that I wasn't thinking of doing
>actual curing though. I just wanted to make salted (as I am now learning)
>beef I see people here sometimes salting their own beef. Are they
>actually curing it for storage? I just assumed they were doing it before
>cooking for the flavour.
>
>O with a lot to learn!!!

Historically, corning or curing was done to preserve the meat. That
is not needed with modern refrigeration, but we like the taste of ham,
corned beef, pastrami, etc so we still use the process.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 11:53:58 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>>> Exactly. Corned beef is *cured* beef. Meat curing is not something
>>> to fool around with without first educating oneself. If you truly
>>> mean to make your own corned beef I *seriously* recommend you study
>>> this book... curing meat incorrectly is very dangerous, you can kill
>>> people... I refer to my copy very often:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Great-Sausage-...keywords=kutas
>>
>>Thanks very much! I'll have a look at that I wasn't thinking of doing
>>actual curing though. I just wanted to make salted (as I am now learning)
>>beef I see people here sometimes salting their own beef. Are they
>>actually curing it for storage? I just assumed they were doing it before
>>cooking for the flavour.
>>
>>O with a lot to learn!!!
>
> Historically, corning or curing was done to preserve the meat. That
> is not needed with modern refrigeration, but we like the taste of ham,
> corned beef, pastrami, etc so we still use the process.

Ahh that clears that up) Thanks very much)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 11:53:58 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:24:06 -0000, "Ophelia"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>>news >>>> On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 11:49:46 -0500, jmcquown >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 11/16/2013 11:45 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>>> I just read that corned beef comes from cattle raised on maize. I
>>>>>> always though it referred to the corns of salt which was used to help
>>>>>> preserve it.
>>>>>> Can anyone elucidate please?
>>>>>>
>>>>>What the cattle eat has nothing to do with it. It's salt-cured beef.
>>>>>According to Wiki, "The term comes from the treatment of the meat with
>>>>>"corns" of salt."
>>>>
>>>> Like corn bread, course milled grain is corn/korn. Calling maize corn
>>>> is a Euro thing, because of the maize kernals.
>>>
>>>We call various things 'corn'. We talk of cornfields etc and a farm where
>>>I
>>>regularly stay in North Yorkshire, the farmer refers to his barley as
>>>'corn'
>>>too as well as his wheat. It is quite common.
>>
>> Exactly. Corned beef is *cured* beef. Meat curing is not something
>> to fool around with without first educating oneself. If you truly
>> mean to make your own corned beef I *seriously* recommend you study
>> this book... curing meat incorrectly is very dangerous, you can kill
>> people... I refer to my copy very often:
>> http://www.amazon.com/Great-Sausage-...keywords=kutas
>
>Thanks very much! I'll have a look at that I wasn't thinking of doing
>actual curing though. I just wanted to make salted (as I am now learning)
>beef I see people here sometimes salting their own beef. Are they
>actually curing it for storage? I just assumed they were doing it before
>cooking for the flavour.
>
>O with a lot to learn!!!

That's why I very strongly recommend you study that book, I don't want
you harming yourself. Corning meat is indeed curing, done incorectly
will lead to disasters.

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
news
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 11:53:58 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:24:06 -0000, "Ophelia"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>>>news >>>>> On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 11:49:46 -0500, jmcquown >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 11/16/2013 11:45 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>>>> I just read that corned beef comes from cattle raised on maize. I
>>>>>>> always though it referred to the corns of salt which was used to
>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>> preserve it.
>>>>>>> Can anyone elucidate please?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>What the cattle eat has nothing to do with it. It's salt-cured beef.
>>>>>>According to Wiki, "The term comes from the treatment of the meat with
>>>>>>"corns" of salt."
>>>>>
>>>>> Like corn bread, course milled grain is corn/korn. Calling maize corn
>>>>> is a Euro thing, because of the maize kernals.
>>>>
>>>>We call various things 'corn'. We talk of cornfields etc and a farm
>>>>where
>>>>I
>>>>regularly stay in North Yorkshire, the farmer refers to his barley as
>>>>'corn'
>>>>too as well as his wheat. It is quite common.
>>>
>>> Exactly. Corned beef is *cured* beef. Meat curing is not something
>>> to fool around with without first educating oneself. If you truly
>>> mean to make your own corned beef I *seriously* recommend you study
>>> this book... curing meat incorrectly is very dangerous, you can kill
>>> people... I refer to my copy very often:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Great-Sausage-...keywords=kutas
>>
>>Thanks very much! I'll have a look at that I wasn't thinking of doing
>>actual curing though. I just wanted to make salted (as I am now learning)
>>beef I see people here sometimes salting their own beef. Are they
>>actually curing it for storage? I just assumed they were doing it before
>>cooking for the flavour.
>>
>>O with a lot to learn!!!
>
> That's why I very strongly recommend you study that book, I don't want
> you harming yourself. Corning meat is indeed curing, done incorectly
> will lead to disasters.

I've been perusing my book shelves because seeing that book you recommended
jogged my memory and I realised I had one. I have 'Home Sausage Making' by
Charles G Reavis. Do you have it? It has sections on curing, drying,
smoking etc. Having said that, I wasn't really looking to cure anything. I
now know I was wanting to know how to 'salt' beef for cooking 'corned beef'
for cooking as mentioned by many here. That section is very interesting
though so I might look into it more.

Thanks for your advice.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

I googled "corned beef" because my memory disagrees with most
of the information in this post. I discovered that at least
90% of the information posted is just plain wrong.

At least regarding modern corned beef served in a Jewish Deli
in England (and I believe it's a similar process as used in
the US despite a being a different product) the information
on the internet is either hidden or missing.

Brisket is the cut of beef that is used. The beef is first
pickled in salt peter (potassium chloride) and spices. Then
it is cooked for several hours. This is the basic process.

http://www.richardfisher.com

"Helpful person" > wrote in message
...
>I googled "corned beef" because my memory disagrees with most
> of the information in this post. I discovered that at least
> 90% of the information posted is just plain wrong.
>
> At least regarding modern corned beef served in a Jewish Deli
> in England (and I believe it's a similar process as used in
> the US despite a being a different product) the information
> on the internet is either hidden or missing.
>
> Brisket is the cut of beef that is used. The beef is first
> pickled in salt peter (potassium chloride) and spices. Then
> it is cooked for several hours. This is the basic process.

salt peter is potassium nitrate. It is a poison, so used sparingly as a
preservative. That is what assures the pink color, even when cooked. And
you left out the salt.

On Monday, November 18, 2013 9:58:08 AM UTC-5, Pico Rico wrote:
>
> salt peter is potassium nitrate.

Quite correct.

On 11/21/2013 10:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>
>>> BUT first you have to have your corned beef ... I got some Pastrami on
>>> Tuesday when I was in town. It didn't taste smokey.
>>
>> Unfortunately, some people who own smokers tend to think everything
>> should
>> be smoked. If it works for them, great. I love corned beef brisket
>> but I
>> definitely don't want it to taste smokey.
>
> I don't like anything smokey.

I'm not really a fan of smoked food, either. I was given some smoked
venison sausages a number of years ago. I like venison, when it's
cooked correctly. I haven't eaten it in years.

I was given some homemade venison sausages in casings. Smoked. They
were rather tough (not enough fat!) when grilled or simmered. All I
could taste was smoke. No thank you.

Jill

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:57:08 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

> I got some Pastrami on
> Tuesday when I was in town. It didn't taste smokey.
> --

Thank you! That's all I wanted you to know. Sorry you didn't like
it, but those things are probably an acquired taste.

I've eaten corned beef at least once a year all my life, so I'm fine
with that - but I've never developed an affinity for pastrami.
Sometimes I'll order it over corned beef in a sandwich when I'm at a
certain hofbrau, because their pastrami isn't as fatty as their corned
beef - but mostly, I pass on either one and order a (rare) roast beef
sandwich.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:57:08 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>> I got some Pastrami on
>> Tuesday when I was in town. It didn't taste smokey.
>> --
>
> Thank you! That's all I wanted you to know. Sorry you didn't like
> it, but those things are probably an acquired taste.

I didn't dislike it too much, but neither did I like it enough to want to
buy it again and DH didn't like it at all.

> I've eaten corned beef at least once a year all my life, so I'm fine
> with that - but I've never developed an affinity for pastrami.
> Sometimes I'll order it over corned beef in a sandwich when I'm at a
> certain hofbrau, because their pastrami isn't as fatty as their corned
> beef - but mostly, I pass on either one and order a (rare) roast beef
> sandwich.

At least I now know what it is!!! )

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:22:23 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:
snip
>
>I'm not really a fan of smoked food, either. I was given some smoked
>venison sausages a number of years ago. I like venison, when it's
>cooked correctly. I haven't eaten it in years.
>
>I was given some homemade venison sausages in casings. Smoked. They
>were rather tough (not enough fat!) when grilled or simmered. All I
>could taste was smoke. No thank you.
>
>Jill
A lot depends upon what wood is used and how long the food was
subjected to smoke. I really don't care for anything done with
hickory or mesquite -- too strong. I guess that's why I don't care
for most BBQ or BBQ restaurants. I like apple and alder.
Janet US

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:32:51 -0500, Brooklyn1
> wrote:

snip
>Smoked fish is wonderful.

Oh, yes. I love smoked fish. We smoke rainbow during the summer. I
grew up with smoked chubs from Lake Michigan.
Janet US

On Thursday, November 21, 2013 4:48:53 PM UTC-5, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
> Oh, yes. I love smoked fish. We smoke rainbow during the summer. I
> grew up with smoked chubs from Lake Michigan.
> Janet US

Ever had a "Chubby Mary" at The Cove in Leland?

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...

>>I don't like anything smokey.
>
> Smoked fish is wonderful.

You are most welcome to my share

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2013-11-21 4:48 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:32:51 -0500, Brooklyn1
> > wrote:
>
> snip
>> Smoked fish is wonderful.
>
> Oh, yes. I love smoked fish. We smoke rainbow during the summer. I
> grew up with smoked chubs from Lake Michigan.
>
I remember my mother cooking Finan Haddie when I was a kid and I hated
it.I should give it another chance because I have since had so many
other good smoked fish. My biggest surprise was smoked eel. I remember
my mother talking about it with disgust after a trip to Europe. Many
years later when I was in Denmark and I took two guys for a meal after
they had picked me up and taken me for a scenic tour to my hotel. The
menu was in Danish and I asked them to order me a Danish treat. They
ordered smoked eel. I dreaded it, thinking of my mother's description.

I have to say it was incredible. It was not nova lox salmon, but a lot
better.

The smoked eel I can get here is pretty good, but nowhere near as good
as that Danish stuff. I have served it at parties here. I put it on a
platter with smoked salmon canapes and don't tell people it is eel. They
try it and love it.

On 2013-11-21, Dave Smith > wrote:

> I should give it another chance because I have since had so many
> other good smoked fish.

I'd like to start smoking trout, next summer. CO has weird fish laws,
though. Can't have more than 8 trout ....anywhere, anyhow! That
means I gotta go fer the biggies. No brookies.

> My biggest surprise was smoked eel.

Smoked eel is awesome. In Japanese, unagi sushi is smoked eel, my all
time favorite. Unfortunately, no eel, here.

nb

On 11/21/2013 4:32 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Smoked fish is wonderful.
>
I like smoked salmon but it's not something I'd want to eat all the time.

Jill

Steve wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 12:47:41 -0500, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hah... PVC... I knew it!
>
> > Which one is PVC:
>
> > http://www.missnebraska.org/competition.html#alliance
>
> > I bet PVC is Steffani Jiroux, Miss Lincoln:
>
> > http://search.aol.com/aol/imageDetails?
>
>
>
> Figures that Sheldon would use an AOL web-search. And **** it up.
>
>
>
> Did you even read your link beforehand, Shelly?


Steve, if you and Sheldon were The Bickersons which BIckerson would you be...???


--
Best
Greg

In article >,
says...
>
> On 11/21/2013 4:32 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >
> > Smoked fish is wonderful.
> >
> I like smoked salmon but it's not something I'd want to eat all the time.
>
> Jill

OK. Try smoked mackerel or smoked haddock.

Cullen skink, (trad Scottish recipe) made with smoked haddock from
the local fish-smokery, is one of my favourite winter soups.

http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/899633/cullen-skink

Janet UK

On 11/22/2013 2:00 PM, Ophelia wrote:

>>
>> Just for drill, there are two kinds of smoking, hot and cold. They
>> produce different results. "Barbecue" is hot smoked. Smoke cured meats
>> are usually cold smoked, and some processed meats are smoked only to
>> 155F before being chilled down. Cold smoked foods will have a more
>> pronounced smoke flavor, due in part to the lack of any char which
>> melds with smoke for a barbecue flavor.
>
> I had pastrami for the first time the other day. It didn't taste smoky
> so does one kind of smoking give different results to another? Is
> smoking to do with preserving and if so, can it be more about that that
> the flavour? The pastrami surprised me.
>


Smoking was originally done for preserving. Many foods we eat are
smoked, but you do not taste it. Ham, hot dogs, many sausages are
smoked, but you are not overwhelmed by it at all.

Many backyard cookers think they need lots of smoke and they add more
creosote than that light smoke flavor.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/22/2013 2:00 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Just for drill, there are two kinds of smoking, hot and cold. They
>>> produce different results. "Barbecue" is hot smoked. Smoke cured meats
>>> are usually cold smoked, and some processed meats are smoked only to
>>> 155F before being chilled down. Cold smoked foods will have a more
>>> pronounced smoke flavor, due in part to the lack of any char which
>>> melds with smoke for a barbecue flavor.
>>
>> I had pastrami for the first time the other day. It didn't taste smoky
>> so does one kind of smoking give different results to another? Is
>> smoking to do with preserving and if so, can it be more about that that
>> the flavour? The pastrami surprised me.
>>
>
>
> Smoking was originally done for preserving. Many foods we eat are smoked,
> but you do not taste it. Ham, hot dogs, many sausages are smoked, but you
> are not overwhelmed by it at all.
>
> Many backyard cookers think they need lots of smoke and they add more
> creosote than that light smoke flavor.

Thanks, Ed! Very interesting stuff! I am interested in the preserving
aspect.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Ophelia" wrote:
>"Brooklyn1" wrote
>>
>> Many foods are smoked by various procedures... tube steak is smoked
>> but depending on process the level of smokiness varies greatly. A lot
>> depends on accompanying preparation... pastrami is first cured like
>> corned beef, then smoked... that smoking is primarily done as a
>> preservation extender, not so much to impart a smoke flavor. Again I
>> urge you to study Rytek's book.
>
>Ok thanks. Please give me the name of that book again?

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Sausage-.../dp/0025668609

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> "Ophelia" wrote:
>>"Brooklyn1" wrote
>>>
>>> Many foods are smoked by various procedures... tube steak is smoked
>>> but depending on process the level of smokiness varies greatly. A lot
>>> depends on accompanying preparation... pastrami is first cured like
>>> corned beef, then smoked... that smoking is primarily done as a
>>> preservation extender, not so much to impart a smoke flavor. Again I
>>> urge you to study Rytek's book.
>>
>>Ok thanks. Please give me the name of that book again?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Great-Sausage-.../dp/0025668609

Thanks.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> I remember when smoked whitefish cost less than $1/lb.

1971 in Newport, RI, fresh lobster cost $1.00 a pound. We got an 8
pounder for my 18th birthday dinner.

G.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 20:21:50 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
.. .
>> "Ophelia" wrote:
>>>"Brooklyn1" wrote
>>>>
>>>> Many foods are smoked by various procedures... tube steak is smoked
>>>> but depending on process the level of smokiness varies greatly. A lot
>>>> depends on accompanying preparation... pastrami is first cured like
>>>> corned beef, then smoked... that smoking is primarily done as a
>>>> preservation extender, not so much to impart a smoke flavor. Again I
>>>> urge you to study Rytek's book.
>>>
>>>Ok thanks. Please give me the name of that book again?
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Great-Sausage-.../dp/0025668609
>
>Thanks.

You're welcome.
Do you knit? I'm interested in Scotish fair isle.

On 11/22/2013 6:04 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> Do you knit? I'm interested in Scotish fair isle.
>
Do you want to learn how to do it?

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 19:41:19 -0500, S Viemeister
> wrote:

>On 11/22/2013 6:04 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> Do you knit? I'm interested in Scotish fair isle.
>>
>Do you want to learn how to do it?

I know how.

On 11/22/2013 8:53 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 19:41:19 -0500, S Viemeister
> > wrote:
>
>> On 11/22/2013 6:04 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>>> Do you knit? I'm interested in Scotish fair isle.
>>>
>> Do you want to learn how to do it?
>
> I know how.
>
Knitting in general, or Fair Isle in particular?
Are you interested in the history? Or the designs, materials,
techniques, tools, etc?
Two needle, circular, or frame knitting?

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 20:21:50 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> "Ophelia" wrote:
>>>>"Brooklyn1" wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> Many foods are smoked by various procedures... tube steak is smoked
>>>>> but depending on process the level of smokiness varies greatly. A lot
>>>>> depends on accompanying preparation... pastrami is first cured like
>>>>> corned beef, then smoked... that smoking is primarily done as a
>>>>> preservation extender, not so much to impart a smoke flavor. Again I
>>>>> urge you to study Rytek's book.
>>>>
>>>>Ok thanks. Please give me the name of that book again?
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Great-Sausage-.../dp/0025668609
>>
>>Thanks.
>
> You're welcome.
> Do you knit? I'm interested in Scotish fair isle.

Yes I knit, but fairisle is a bit too fussy for me Sheila is the one to
ask about that

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/22/2013 8:53 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 19:41:19 -0500, S Viemeister
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/22/2013 6:04 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do you knit? I'm interested in Scotish fair isle.
>>>>
>>> Do you want to learn how to do it?
>>
>> I know how.
>>
> Knitting in general, or Fair Isle in particular?
> Are you interested in the history? Or the designs, materials, techniques,
> tools, etc?
> Two needle, circular, or frame knitting?

Ahh I just mentioned you))

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:17:42 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
>"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
>> On 11/22/2013 8:53 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 19:41:19 -0500, S Viemeister
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/22/2013 6:04 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Do you knit? I'm interested in Scotish fair isle.
>>>>>
>>>> Do you want to learn how to do it?
>>>
>>> I know how.
>>>
>> Knitting in general, or Fair Isle in particular?
>> Are you interested in the history? Or the designs, materials, techniques,
>> tools, etc?
>> Two needle, circular, or frame knitting?
>
>Ahh I just mentioned you))

I know all the techniques. What I probably should have asked is if
anyone in Scotland can get a great deal on yarns