In article >,
Pearl F. Buck > wrote:
>
>You should _never_ use an extension cord on a fridge, never...

Would that include running my fridge with a 10-ga extension
cord hooked up to my generator?

Cindy Hamilton
--

On 11/27/2013 1:22 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> "Pearl F. Buck" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 11/27/2013 12:48 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Just venting a bit. Ignore at will.
>>>>
>>>> A couple of months ago one of the breakers on the main electrical box
>>>> tripped. I thought I'd reset it but it took several tries before it
>>>> actually "took".
>>>>
>>>> This particular circuit controls (oddly) the overhead lights in the
>>>> master
>>>> bathroom where the tub and toilet are AND all the electrical outlets in
>>>> the garage. Where the freezer is. That last time this happened I
>>>> finally
>>>> got it reset. <whew> In the meantime, I'd moved as much frozen food
>>>> into
>>>> the freezer in the side-by-side fridge as I could fit. I stored some
>>>> things in the neighbor's freezer.
>>>>
>>>> This time, I've moved what I can fit to the fridge/freezer already.
>>>> Because this time, that breaker absolutely will *not* reset. I've
>>>> tried
>>>> at least 20 times now. I think the breaker switch itself needs to be
>>>> replaced.
>>>>
>>>> I've got a home warranty so I put in a service request. And left a
>>>> message with the electricians they have a contract with. Here we
>>>> are, two
>>>> days before Thanksgiving. Even if I'm not cooking for company I
>>>> stand to
>>>> lose a goodly amount of food. I sure hope they can get someone out
>>>> here
>>>> tomorrow. I *know* this electrical company isn't going to be
>>>> working on
>>>> Thanksgiving. Possibly not even the day after. If they can't get
>>>> to it
>>>> tomorrow I'll be hunting down an electrican who can. I'm not sure
>>>> I'll be
>>>> able to find one.
>>>>
>>>> The good news is, I procrastinated about going to the grocery store
>>>> yesterday. And today it was raining like mad. I'm not fond of
>>>> loading
>>>> a lot of groceries into the car when it's pouring down rain. So at
>>>> least
>>>> I won't lose as much food as I might if I'd already gone to Publix.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Go get a extension cord. Plug the fridge into a working outlet.
>>>
>>> Voila, problem over.
>>
>> You should _never_ use an extension cord on a fridge, never...
>>
>
> They just how would you use a generator during a power outage without an
> extension cord?
>
> Robert

A generator should be hard- wired into a generator transfer switch next
to the main electrical service box.

If a portable generator is used care should be taken to find the highest
rated commercial power tool extension cord.

Safety first, please.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 12:01:58 -0800, "Pico Rico"
> wrote:

>
>"Pearl F. Buck" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> You should _never_ use an extension cord on a fridge, never...

^The crap you come across sometimes...^

>yes, NEVER, even as a temporary measure to prevent loss of a fridge or
>freezer full of food. Yes, NEVER! (rolling eyes).

There's nothing wrong with using an extension lead of the correct
rating.

In article >,
Pearl F. Buck > wrote:
>
>A generator should be hard- wired into a generator transfer switch next
>to the main electrical service box.

That would be ideal, but it's not strictly necessary.

Oddly enough, the electrical inspector in my jurisdiction looked at
my husband's wiring of the furnace to plug into a suitably sized
receptacle (rather than being hardwired into the panel) so that
we could plug the furnace into the portable generator. He said,
"That's not code, but it's how I'd do it at my house"
and passed the inspection.

>If a portable generator is used care should be taken to find the highest
>rated commercial power tool extension cord.
>
>Safety first, please.

Always.

Cindy Hamilton
--

On 11/27/2013 2:45 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 12:01:58 -0800, "Pico Rico"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Pearl F. Buck" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> You should _never_ use an extension cord on a fridge, never...
>
> ^The crap you come across sometimes...^

You sure are.

>> yes, NEVER, even as a temporary measure to prevent loss of a fridge or
>> freezer full of food. Yes, NEVER! (rolling eyes).
>
> There's nothing wrong with using an extension lead of the correct
> rating.

I clarified that in another post, you mewling little kitten.

Meanwhile:

http://www.bluecrest.net/support/ele...cord_do_i_buy/

WHICH EXTENSION CORD DO I BUY?

Occasionally our electricians are asked about the use and safety of
extension cords in and around the home or business. Because of the
extensive choice available on the hardware store shelf, it may be a
confusing decision as to which one to buy.

I am reminded of a customer whose refrigerator was cycling at an
alarming rate. After some time, he called an appliance repair company to
troubleshoot the problem, thinking that the refrigerator needed fixing.
The refrigerator power cord had been plugged into a flimsy extension
cord, which in turn had been plugged into a wall outlet some distance
away. The light weight extension cord was incapable of providing
sufficient power to keep the refrigerator compressor running. Both the
extcordimages.jpgcompressor and the extension cord were too hot to
touch! The customer was able to save the appliance but the reality was
that a fire could easily have occurred had the problem gone undiscovered
for too much longer.

On 11/27/2013 8:42 AM, Gary wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> There's been a freezer in the garage since 1987 with no problems. Well,
>> not until that first freezer finally conked out a couple of years ago.
>> I really doubt the freezer is the issue.
>
> You *do* know how to properly reset a tripped breaker, don't you? Not
> to assume you don't know but some people don't. I'm just starting with
> the basics, just in case.
>
> As others said though, unplug everything then try to reset the
> breaker. If that works, then one at a time, slowly, plug things back
> in again.
>
> G.
>
Hey, I'm not an electrician. LOL But you're right.

I talked with the electrician early this morning. He had me unplug the
freezer and the breaker reset just fine. While on the phone with him I
plugged the freezer back in. It started right back up. Fortunately it
hadn't been off long enough for me to lose what food was left in it.
That guy said he thinks there wis something wrong with the freezer.

BUT... about an hour later his boss called me. I ran through it all
again. He doesn't think it's the freezer. It's either the electrical
outlet itself or something to do with the bathroom lights. He's leaning
towards the lights since they're original to the house. He suggested
after Thanksgiving I place another service call. They'll check the
outlet and then the wiring to the lights. He's betting the problem lies
with one of those, not the fact that I have a freezer in the garage.

Jill

On 11/27/2013 1:00 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2013-11-27 12:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Home warranty works like this. You pay the warranty company money. If
>> something breaks, they spend as little as possible to get things working
>> again and keep the rest of the money. Put that $500 a year into a
>> saving account and you can handle just about anything needed around the
>> house.
>
> In Jill's case it seems that she pays the premiums and when there is a
> problem they do nothing.

That's not true. When I've had plumbing problems they've been fixed
immediately. Where can you get a plumber to fix a leaking toilet for a
flat $75, parts included? He even had to make a separate trip to the
hardware store to get a special ring seal to fit the toilet.

My neighbor's house (as old as mine is) has two water heaters. They
replaced both of them over the span of a year or so. Again, a flat
service charge. And no, they didn't put in used water heaters.

The reason I have this home warranty is because of all the antiquated
things in this house. Like the 1987 oven/stove/microwave all-in-one
unit. The refrigerator. The washer & dryer. The warranty will pay to
replace those things when they finally break down. I asked very
specific questions when I purchased the warranty.

> FWIW, last year I had a problem with the 220
> line to my kitchen range. I called an electrician who a friend had
> recommended. He was working on a a job nearby and came by when he was
> done there. He found the and fixed the problem, checked for other issues
> charged me only $60 cash. A plumber charges $95 just to show up.
>
Around here it's more like $150, and they charge by the hour. The price
of some issues the warranty has covered could easily have cost me more
than the annual premium if I didn't have it.

A year or two ago the attic fan in my HVAC unit died. The temperature
was very hot and it was a *holiday* weekend. The home warranty company
couldn't get any of their contractors to answer the phone. (It *was* a
holiday weekend, after all.) They told me if I could find some other
company to fix it they'd reimburse me for the difference between their
service fee and the actual charges. And they did. So I was still only
out $75.

Jill

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 13:00:40 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> A plumber charges $95 just to show up.

That sounds right to me.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On 11/27/2013 1:10 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 12:51:24 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 11/27/2013 11:56 AM, Metspitzer wrote:
>>
>>>> A frig should never be on a gfi circuit.
>>>
>>> Like you say, it shouldn't be. I don't know how a home warranty
>>> works, but it would be worth a try to get a separate outlet installed
>>> for the freezer.
>>
>> Home warranty works like this. You pay the warranty company money. If
>> something breaks, they spend as little as possible to get things working
>> again and keep the rest of the money. Put that $500 a year into a
>> saving account and you can handle just about anything needed around the
>> house.
>>
>> In today's money I've been a homeowner for 48 years. Paying for a
>> warranty would have been $24,000 over that time. Over the years I've
>> replaced most every appliance we have and the heater in my present
>> house. I'm about $10,000 ahead and I have the top of the line
>> appliances I want, not some cheap crap or overhaul by a warranty
>> company. Stuff wears out and then you replace it.
>>
>> GFCI outlets are required in garages as well as bathrooms and outdoors.
>> It would be against code to run a circuit out there that is not GFCI.
>> Even if you want to, it is not a warranty situation at all and they
>> would pay nothing. That is between you and the electrician.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I think new codes even require the freezer on a GFCI (in the garage),
>>> but it shouldn't be so overloaded that it trips. The freezer should
>>> be on a separate circuit, even if that separate circuit is a GFCI.
>>>
>>
>> Seems that is the case
>> http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com/...a-refrigerator
>>
>> ?In a Dwelling Unit (house or apartment) refrigerators located inside
>> the kitchen do NOT have to have a GFCI. See 210.8(A)(6), Exhibit
>> 210.13, 210.52(B)(1), 210.52(B)(2), 210.52(B)(3), and Exhibit 210.28.
>> If the circuit feeding the refrigerator outlet is branched to any other
>> outlet, it must be a 20-A circuit. If the circuit feeding the
>> refrigerator outlet is a dedicated individual circuit, than it can be
>> either 15-A or 20-A.
>> ?In a garage or an unfinished basement of a Dwelling unit, the
>> refrigerator must have a GFCI circuit. In fact ALL outlets must be GFCI
>> in garages and unfinished basements. See 210.8(A)(2) and Exhibit 210.10.
>
> This would be a good time to put the freezer on a separate outlet. It
> could save some trouble down the road.
>
> Using a hair dryer at the same time as the freezer cycles on could
> easily cause a trip. Of course, if she was drying her hair when the
> breaker tripped, she would be aware of it.
>
LOLOL I don't use a dryer on my hair. All I did was try to turn on the
light over the toilet in the master bathroom. It didn't come on, so I
tried the lights over the bathtub. Nope. That's when I knew (from the
only other time this happened, a couple of months ago) uh oh, the
freezer is off.

> If she could convince the electrician when he comes out that the
> freezer should be on a separate circuit, she may get it done for free.
> (I know this is a low probability)

I'll have them find the problem and get it fixed. I'm pretty sure I can
get a good deal. It's probably the aged light fixtures in the
bathroom. Not to worry. Meanwhile, the freezer is running again and I
didn't lose any food. That was my main concern.

Jill

On 11/27/2013 10:30 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 20:23:24 -0500, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> Just venting a bit. Ignore at will.
>>
>> A couple of months ago one of the breakers on the main electrical box
>> tripped. I thought I'd reset it but it took several tries before it
>> actually "took".
> snip
>>
>> Jill
>
> This is silly simple, but just checking. Have you added any
> electrical device (new or moved) to any of the area served by this
> particular circuit? One item could cause the breaker to trip if all
> items were on at the same time. It could be an odd circumstance when
> all are on and that is why it trips infrequently.
> Janet US
>
Nope, I haven't added or changed or plugged in anything. I've updated
the info upthread. Long story short, the manager/owner of the
electrical company thinks the real problem might be in those old
overhead lights in the bathroom.

Jill

On 11/27/2013 7:14 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>>
>> In Jill's case it seems that she pays the premiums and when there is a
>> problem they do nothing.
>
> That's not true. When I've had plumbing problems they've been fixed
> immediately. Where can you get a plumber to fix a leaking toilet for a
> flat $75, parts included? He even had to make a separate trip to the
> hardware store to get a special ring seal to fit the toilet.
>



If you pay for a home warranty why are you paying extra for a plumber to
come?
Are toilets that much different there. I have bought several wax sealing
rings over the years and they were always the same size.

On 11/27/2013 10:48 AM, Metspitzer wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:30:32 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 20:23:24 -0500, jmcquown >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just venting a bit. Ignore at will.
>>>
>>> A couple of months ago one of the breakers on the main electrical box
>>> tripped. I thought I'd reset it but it took several tries before it
>>> actually "took".
>> snip
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> This is silly simple, but just checking. Have you added any
>> electrical device (new or moved) to any of the area served by this
>> particular circuit? One item could cause the breaker to trip if all
>> items were on at the same time. It could be an odd circumstance when
>> all are on and that is why it trips infrequently.
>> Janet US
>
> The trouble has shown up most likely because it is raining. If the
> breaker is a GFCI, damp weather will cause them to trip.
>
I really doubt the weather had much to do with it. People keep
trying to tell me it never rains here. (Personally I think they're
crazy.) It poured down rain here yesterday, yes. It was windy, too.
But it did that all Spring and into Summer, often for days at a time.
The breaker didn't trip then.

Jill

On 11/27/2013 7:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 11/27/2013 7:14 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In Jill's case it seems that she pays the premiums and when there is a
>>> problem they do nothing.
>>
>> That's not true. When I've had plumbing problems they've been fixed
>> immediately. Where can you get a plumber to fix a leaking toilet for a
>> flat $75, parts included? He even had to make a separate trip to the
>> hardware store to get a special ring seal to fit the toilet.
>>
>
> If you pay for a home warranty why are you paying extra for a plumber to
> come?

Think of it as a deductible. $75 service call (for plumber,
electrician, washer repairman... whatever your policy covers is paid for
100% above and beyond that $75.

> Are toilets that much different there. I have bought several wax sealing
> rings over the years and they were always the same size.
>
I don't know about this particular toilet but the base is an odd shape.
It required a ring the plumber didn't have in his truck. He had to
drive to the hardware store to get one that would fit. No extra charge.

Jill

Uh-oh. I feel a big Bovistic epic about an electrical dilemma comin' up.

On 11/27/2013 8:30 PM, Kalmia wrote:
> Uh-oh. I feel a big Bovistic epic about an electrical dilemma comin' up.
>
My electrical problem turned out to be a non-drama. (BTW, thanks to
everyone for their suggestions. )

You didn't quote anything from my original post or any reply. So I have
*no* idea who you're replying to. You may wish to figure out how to quote.

Jill

On 11/27/2013 12:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Home warranty works like this. You pay the warranty company money. If
> something breaks, they spend as little as possible to get things working
> again and keep the rest of the money. Put that $500 a year into a
> saving account and you can handle just about anything needed around the
> house.
>
> In today's money I've been a homeowner for 48 years. Paying for a
> warranty would have been $24,000 over that time. Over the years I've
> replaced most every appliance we have and the heater in my present
> house. I'm about $10,000 ahead and I have the top of the line
> appliances I want, not some cheap crap or overhaul by a warranty
> company. Stuff wears out and then you replace it.

I feel the same way about pet insurance. They pay out very little if you
file a claim. Put the same money into a savings account and any
expensive vet bill should be covered by what you save rather than pay
VPI or some other pet insurance company.

--
CAPSLOCK€“Preventing Login Since 1980.

jmcquown wrote:
> Just venting a bit. Ignore at will.
>
> A couple of months ago one of the breakers on the main electrical box
> tripped. I thought I'd reset it but it took several tries before it
> actually "took".
>
> This particular circuit controls (oddly) the overhead lights in the
> master bathroom where the tub and toilet are AND all the electrical
> outlets in the garage. Where the freezer is. That last time this
> happened I finally got it reset. <whew> In the meantime, I'd moved as
> much frozen food into the freezer in the side-by-side fridge as I
> could fit. I stored some things in the neighbor's freezer.
>
> This time, I've moved what I can fit to the fridge/freezer already.
> Because this time, that breaker absolutely will *not* reset. I've
> tried at least 20 times now. I think the breaker switch itself needs
> to be replaced.
>
> I've got a home warranty so I put in a service request. And left a
> message with the electricians they have a contract with. Here we are,
> two days before Thanksgiving. Even if I'm not cooking for company I
> stand to lose a goodly amount of food. I sure hope they can get
> someone out here tomorrow. I *know* this electrical company isn't
> going to be working on Thanksgiving. Possibly not even the day
> after. If they can't get to it tomorrow I'll be hunting down an
> electrican who can. I'm not sure I'll be able to find one.
>
> The good news is, I procrastinated about going to the grocery store
> yesterday. And today it was raining like mad. I'm not fond of
> loading a lot of groceries into the car when it's pouring down rain.
> So at least I won't lose as much food as I might if I'd already gone
> to Publix.
>
> Jill
Buy, or borrow, a long extension cord and plug the freezer into another
outlet - even if it's in the house until the problem can be solved.
Since your garage breaker is connected to your bathroom breaker I'm
certain is a GFCI breaker and they can trip for a number of reasons or
they can just be bad. If you follow my advise, plug it into an outlet
in the house that is not in the kitchen or bathroom and you will be fine.

Earl

On 11/26/2013 7:23 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> Just venting a bit. Ignore at will.
>
> A couple of months ago one of the breakers on the main electrical box
> tripped. I thought I'd reset it but it took several tries before it
> actually "took".
>
> This particular circuit controls (oddly) the overhead lights in the
> master bathroom where the tub and toilet are AND all the electrical
> outlets in the garage. Where the freezer is. That last time this
> happened I finally got it reset. <whew> In the meantime, I'd moved as
> much frozen food into the freezer in the side-by-side fridge as I could
> fit. I stored some things in the neighbor's freezer.
>
> This time, I've moved what I can fit to the fridge/freezer already.
> Because this time, that breaker absolutely will *not* reset. I've tried
> at least 20 times now. I think the breaker switch itself needs to be
> replaced.
>
> I've got a home warranty so I put in a service request. And left a
> message with the electricians they have a contract with. Here we are,
> two days before Thanksgiving. Even if I'm not cooking for company I
> stand to lose a goodly amount of food. I sure hope they can get someone
> out here tomorrow. I *know* this electrical company isn't going to be
> working on Thanksgiving. Possibly not even the day after. If they can't
> get to it tomorrow I'll be hunting down an electrican who can. I'm not
> sure I'll be able to find one.
>
> The good news is, I procrastinated about going to the grocery store
> yesterday. And today it was raining like mad. I'm not fond of loading
> a lot of groceries into the car when it's pouring down rain. So at least
> I won't lose as much food as I might if I'd already gone to Publix.
>
> Jill


Dumb question: Do you know *how* to reset a tripped breaker? :-) With
most, they only trip halfway to the OFF position; you have to switch
them all the way off and then on to reset. Maybe that's why you had
trouble?

Others have talked about it maybe being a GFCI breaker -- does it have a
TEST button?

Bob

In article >,
says...
>
> Just venting a bit. Ignore at will.
>
> A couple of months ago one of the breakers on the main electrical box
> tripped. I thought I'd reset it but it took several tries before it
> actually "took".
>
> This particular circuit controls (oddly) the overhead lights in the
> master bathroom where the tub and toilet are AND all the electrical
> outlets in the garage. Where the freezer is. That last time this
> happened I finally got it reset. <whew> In the meantime, I'd moved as
> much frozen food into the freezer in the side-by-side fridge as I could
> fit. I stored some things in the neighbor's freezer.
>
> This time, I've moved what I can fit to the fridge/freezer already.
> Because this time, that breaker absolutely will *not* reset. I've tried
> at least 20 times now. I think the breaker switch itself needs to be
> replaced.
>
> I've got a home warranty so I put in a service request. And left a
> message with the electricians they have a contract with. Here we are,
> two days before Thanksgiving. Even if I'm not cooking for company I
> stand to lose a goodly amount of food. I sure hope they can get someone
> out here tomorrow. I *know* this electrical company isn't going to be
> working on Thanksgiving. Possibly not even the day after. If they
> can't get to it tomorrow I'll be hunting down an electrican who can.
> I'm not sure I'll be able to find one.
>
> The good news is, I procrastinated about going to the grocery store
> yesterday. And today it was raining like mad. I'm not fond of
> loading a lot of groceries into the car when it's pouring down rain. So
> at least I won't lose as much food as I might if I'd already gone to
> Publix.
>
> Jill

Circuit breakers do wear over time. It's a spring mechanism in there
that over a span of time will lose strenghth and not be able to hold the
contacts together.

"Pearl F. Buck" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/27/2013 12:48 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Just venting a bit. Ignore at will.
>>>
>>> A couple of months ago one of the breakers on the main electrical box
>>> tripped. I thought I'd reset it but it took several tries before it
>>> actually "took".
>>>
>>> This particular circuit controls (oddly) the overhead lights in the
>>> master
>>> bathroom where the tub and toilet are AND all the electrical outlets in
>>> the garage. Where the freezer is. That last time this happened I
>>> finally
>>> got it reset. <whew> In the meantime, I'd moved as much frozen food
>>> into
>>> the freezer in the side-by-side fridge as I could fit. I stored some
>>> things in the neighbor's freezer.
>>>
>>> This time, I've moved what I can fit to the fridge/freezer already.
>>> Because this time, that breaker absolutely will *not* reset. I've tried
>>> at least 20 times now. I think the breaker switch itself needs to be
>>> replaced.
>>>
>>> I've got a home warranty so I put in a service request. And left a
>>> message with the electricians they have a contract with. Here we are,
>>> two
>>> days before Thanksgiving. Even if I'm not cooking for company I stand
>>> to
>>> lose a goodly amount of food. I sure hope they can get someone out here
>>> tomorrow. I *know* this electrical company isn't going to be working on
>>> Thanksgiving. Possibly not even the day after. If they can't get to it
>>> tomorrow I'll be hunting down an electrican who can. I'm not sure I'll
>>> be
>>> able to find one.
>>>
>>> The good news is, I procrastinated about going to the grocery store
>>> yesterday. And today it was raining like mad. I'm not fond of
>>> loading
>>> a lot of groceries into the car when it's pouring down rain. So at
>>> least
>>> I won't lose as much food as I might if I'd already gone to Publix.
>>>
>>
>> Go get a extension cord. Plug the fridge into a working outlet.
>>
>> Voila, problem over.
>
> You should _never_ use an extension cord on a fridge, never...

Why not? Get a heavy duty extension cord. Not the flimsy ones made for a
lamp.
>

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/27/2013 1:00 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2013-11-27 12:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> Home warranty works like this. You pay the warranty company money. If
>>> something breaks, they spend as little as possible to get things working
>>> again and keep the rest of the money. Put that $500 a year into a
>>> saving account and you can handle just about anything needed around the
>>> house.
>>
>> In Jill's case it seems that she pays the premiums and when there is a
>> problem they do nothing.
>
> That's not true. When I've had plumbing problems they've been fixed
> immediately. Where can you get a plumber to fix a leaking toilet for a
> flat $75, parts included? He even had to make a separate trip to the
> hardware store to get a special ring seal to fit the toilet.
>
> My neighbor's house (as old as mine is) has two water heaters. They
> replaced both of them over the span of a year or so. Again, a flat
> service charge. And no, they didn't put in used water heaters.
>
> The reason I have this home warranty is because of all the antiquated
> things in this house. Like the 1987 oven/stove/microwave all-in-one unit.
> The refrigerator. The washer & dryer. The warranty will pay to replace
> those things when they finally break down. I asked very specific
> questions when I purchased the warranty.
>
>> FWIW, last year I had a problem with the 220
>> line to my kitchen range. I called an electrician who a friend had
>> recommended. He was working on a a job nearby and came by when he was
>> done there. He found the and fixed the problem, checked for other issues
>> charged me only $60 cash. A plumber charges $95 just to show up.
>>
> Around here it's more like $150, and they charge by the hour. The price
> of some issues the warranty has covered could easily have cost me more
> than the annual premium if I didn't have it.
>
> A year or two ago the attic fan in my HVAC unit died. The temperature was
> very hot and it was a *holiday* weekend. The home warranty company
> couldn't get any of their contractors to answer the phone. (It *was* a
> holiday weekend, after all.) They told me if I could find some other
> company to fix it they'd reimburse me for the difference between their
> service fee and the actual charges. And they did. So I was still only
> out $75.

Sounds like you have a good deal to me.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Kalmia" > wrote in message
...
> Uh-oh. I feel a big Bovistic epic about an electrical dilemma comin' up.

*curious* Why are you so obsessed with her? Even when she isn't here you
have to mention her? Are you in love??

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

Freezer and refrigerators should never be on a GFCI breaker.

~~~~~~~~
I learned this many years ago. The man who did lawn maintenance for me
mowed the lawn while I was out of town on vacation. He stepped into some
water while he was using something that was plugged into an electrical
outlet. Fortunately, the CFCI worked just as it was supposed to, and it
immediately shut down the outlets connected to it. When I got home, I
learned that the outlets in the garage were connected to that same
breaker--and my freezer was in the garage. I immediately had a separate
breaker installed for the freezer (after discarding all the food that was in
it).

Note: I have several outlets that are GFCI outlets (all the kitchen and
bathroom outlets). However, the one I was describing was set in the breaker
box, so it controls several outlets.

MaryL

"Earl" > wrote in message news:> Since your garage breaker
is connected to your bathroom breaker I'm
> certain is a GFCI breaker

LOL.

On 2013-11-27 8:06 PM, jmcquown wrote:

>>> That's not true. When I've had plumbing problems they've been fixed
>>> immediately. Where can you get a plumber to fix a leaking toilet for a
>>> flat $75, parts included? He even had to make a separate trip to the
>>> hardware store to get a special ring seal to fit the toilet.
>>>
>>
>> If you pay for a home warranty why are you paying extra for a plumber to
>> come?
>
> Think of it as a deductible. $75 service call (for plumber,
> electrician, washer repairman... whatever your policy covers is paid for
> 100% above and beyond that $75.

I guess it depends on your reliance on skilled tradesmen and the
frequency of your calls. Over the 36 years I have lived in my house I
have had one plumber and one electrician. The electrician only charge
$60. The plumbing ended up being over $1000 but that involved replacing
leaking pipes over a ceiling. All the other repairs I have done myself,
or my father used to do them.

>> Are toilets that much different there. I have bought several wax sealing
>> rings over the years and they were always the same size.
>>
> I don't know about this particular toilet but the base is an odd shape.
> It required a ring the plumber didn't have in his truck. He had to
> drive to the hardware store to get one that would fit. No extra charge.

Over the years I have replaced seals with I put in a new floor, when I
remodeled bathrooms, when I put in low flush. I have helped several
friends install toilets. I have never seen anything but the standard
wax ring, though some are thicker to account for floor thickness. Those
things are really cheap and a I can't imagine a half decent plumber not
having one in his truck. For a plumber not to have a coupe wax rings
in his truck would be like an electrician not to have electrical tape or
marettes on hand, or a service station not to have any oil.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2013-11-27 8:06 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>>>> That's not true. When I've had plumbing problems they've been fixed
>>>> immediately. Where can you get a plumber to fix a leaking toilet for a
>>>> flat $75, parts included? He even had to make a separate trip to the
>>>> hardware store to get a special ring seal to fit the toilet.
>>>>

snip

Those
> things are really cheap and a I can't imagine a half decent plumber not
> having one in his truck. For a plumber not to have a coupe wax rings in
> his truck would be like an electrician not to have electrical tape or
> marettes on hand, or a service station not to have any oil.

Maybe that was just his excuse for driving off for a well deserved break for
a while.

On 11/27/13 9:39 PM, Earl wrote:

> Since your garage breaker is connected to your bathroom breaker....

There's nothing like advise [sic] from an ignoramus to get you electrocuted.

-- Larry

On 11/28/13 1:28 AM, T wrote:

> Circuit breakers do wear over time. It's a spring mechanism in there
> that over a span of time will lose strenghth and not be able to hold the
> contacts together.

Ummm, the spring doesn't hold the contacts together. It drives them
apart when the breaker trips.

-- Larry

On 2013-11-28, pltrgyst > wrote:
> On 11/28/13 1:28 AM, T wrote:
>
>> Circuit breakers do wear over time. It's a spring mechanism in there
>> that over a span of time will lose strenghth and not be able to hold the
>> contacts together.
>
> Ummm, the spring doesn't hold the contacts together. It drives them
> apart when the breaker trips.

That's what ya' get when looking for electrical advice in a cooking
group.

nb

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 21:39:02 -0500, Earl > wrote:

>jmcquown wrote:
>> Just venting a bit. Ignore at will.
>>
>> A couple of months ago one of the breakers on the main electrical box
>> tripped. I thought I'd reset it but it took several tries before it
>> actually "took".
>>
>> This particular circuit controls (oddly) the overhead lights in the
>> master bathroom where the tub and toilet are AND all the electrical
>> outlets in the garage. Where the freezer is. That last time this
>> happened I finally got it reset. <whew> In the meantime, I'd moved as
>> much frozen food into the freezer in the side-by-side fridge as I
>> could fit. I stored some things in the neighbor's freezer.
>>
>> This time, I've moved what I can fit to the fridge/freezer already.
>> Because this time, that breaker absolutely will *not* reset. I've
>> tried at least 20 times now. I think the breaker switch itself needs
>> to be replaced.
>>
>> I've got a home warranty so I put in a service request. And left a
>> message with the electricians they have a contract with. Here we are,
>> two days before Thanksgiving. Even if I'm not cooking for company I
>> stand to lose a goodly amount of food. I sure hope they can get
>> someone out here tomorrow. I *know* this electrical company isn't
>> going to be working on Thanksgiving. Possibly not even the day
>> after. If they can't get to it tomorrow I'll be hunting down an
>> electrican who can. I'm not sure I'll be able to find one.
>>
>> The good news is, I procrastinated about going to the grocery store
>> yesterday. And today it was raining like mad. I'm not fond of
>> loading a lot of groceries into the car when it's pouring down rain.
>> So at least I won't lose as much food as I might if I'd already gone
>> to Publix.
>>
>> Jill
>Buy, or borrow, a long extension cord and plug the freezer into another
>outlet - even if it's in the house until the problem can be solved.
>Since your garage breaker is connected to your bathroom breaker I'm
>certain is a GFCI breaker and they can trip for a number of reasons or
>they can just be bad. If you follow my advise, plug it into an outlet
>in the house that is not in the kitchen or bathroom and you will be fine.
>
>Earl

All true. The breaker portion of a GFCI wears out same as ordinary
circuit breakers, those circuits getting heavy use need to have their
breakers changed out regularly, all breakers need to be 'exercised'
regularly too (about evey six months flip them all open and closed
several times to clean the contacts. A fridge/freezer draws
tremendous current with every start cycle so will prematurely wear out
the GFCI breaker which is more delicate than a panel breaker. A
fridge/freezer really needs it's own dedicated 20A circuit, and with a
commercial type breaker. If a fire occurs with that set up of a
freezer sharing a bathroom GFCI outlet it can and likely will void the
homeowners policy. I strongly suggest having a licenced electrician
install a dedicated circuit for that freezer ASAP.

On Thursday, November 28, 2013 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, pltrgyst wrote:
> On 11/28/13 1:28 AM, T wrote:
>
>
>
> > Circuit breakers do wear over time. It's a spring mechanism in there
> > that over a span of time will lose strenghth and not be able to hold the
> > contacts together.
>
>
>
> Ummm, the spring doesn't hold the contacts together. It drives them
> apart when the breaker trips.
>

So if the spring ever breaks, an overloaded circuit will set the building on
fire? Doesn't sound like a failsafe to me.

On Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:06:37 AM UTC-8, Brooklyn1 wrote:

>
> All true. The breaker portion of a GFCI wears out same as ordinary
> circuit breakers, those circuits getting heavy use need to have their
> breakers changed out regularly, all breakers need to be 'exercised'
> regularly too (about evey six months flip them all open and closed
> several times to clean the contacts. A fridge/freezer draws
> tremendous current with every start cycle so will prematurely wear out
> the GFCI breaker which is more delicate than a panel breaker. A
> fridge/freezer really needs it's own dedicated 20A circuit, and with a
> commercial type breaker.

> I strongly suggest having a licenced electrician
> install a dedicated circuit for that freezer ASAP.

A difficult call he while the general rule is that Brokelyn is always
wrong, the idea of a professionally installed fridge circuit seems sound.

One tidbit I remember from my youth: to minimize neutral current, the freezer
should be on the other hot lead, i.e. not the one powering the kitchen fridge.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 00:15:27 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" >
wrote:

>
>"Pearl F. Buck" > wrote in message
...
>> On 11/27/2013 12:48 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Just venting a bit. Ignore at will.
>>>>
>>>> A couple of months ago one of the breakers on the main electrical box
>>>> tripped. I thought I'd reset it but it took several tries before it
>>>> actually "took".
>>>>
>>>> This particular circuit controls (oddly) the overhead lights in the
>>>> master
>>>> bathroom where the tub and toilet are AND all the electrical outlets in
>>>> the garage. Where the freezer is. That last time this happened I
>>>> finally
>>>> got it reset. <whew> In the meantime, I'd moved as much frozen food
>>>> into
>>>> the freezer in the side-by-side fridge as I could fit. I stored some
>>>> things in the neighbor's freezer.
>>>>
>>>> This time, I've moved what I can fit to the fridge/freezer already.
>>>> Because this time, that breaker absolutely will *not* reset. I've tried
>>>> at least 20 times now. I think the breaker switch itself needs to be
>>>> replaced.
>>>>
>>>> I've got a home warranty so I put in a service request. And left a
>>>> message with the electricians they have a contract with. Here we are,
>>>> two
>>>> days before Thanksgiving. Even if I'm not cooking for company I stand
>>>> to
>>>> lose a goodly amount of food. I sure hope they can get someone out here
>>>> tomorrow. I *know* this electrical company isn't going to be working on
>>>> Thanksgiving. Possibly not even the day after. If they can't get to it
>>>> tomorrow I'll be hunting down an electrican who can. I'm not sure I'll
>>>> be
>>>> able to find one.
>>>>
>>>> The good news is, I procrastinated about going to the grocery store
>>>> yesterday. And today it was raining like mad. I'm not fond of
>>>> loading
>>>> a lot of groceries into the car when it's pouring down rain. So at
>>>> least
>>>> I won't lose as much food as I might if I'd already gone to Publix.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Go get a extension cord. Plug the fridge into a working outlet.
>>>
>>> Voila, problem over.
>>
>> You should _never_ use an extension cord on a fridge, never...
>
>Why not? Get a heavy duty extension cord. Not the flimsy ones made for a
>lamp.

A heavy duty extension cord is fine temporarilly but still use one as
short as possible, and make sure it's plugged into a 20A circuit
that's not being shared or the result can be worse.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:08:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

>On Thursday, November 28, 2013 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, pltrgyst wrote:
>> On 11/28/13 1:28 AM, T wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Circuit breakers do wear over time. It's a spring mechanism in there
>> > that over a span of time will lose strenghth and not be able to hold the
>> > contacts together.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ummm, the spring doesn't hold the contacts together. It drives them
>> apart when the breaker trips.
>>
>
>So if the spring ever breaks, an overloaded circuit will set the building on
>fire? Doesn't sound like a failsafe to me.

Circuit breakers don't rely on springs.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com...t-breaker2.htm

On 11/28/13 2:08 PM, wrote:

>> Ummm, the spring doesn't hold the contacts together. It drives them
>> apart when the breaker trips.
>>
>
> So if the spring ever breaks, an overloaded circuit will set the building on
> fire? Doesn't sound like a failsafe to me.

The spring is not a coil spring -- it's a piece of metal bent under
tension and latched. If it broke, the circuit would automatically become
open.

-- Larry

On 11/28/2013 9:21 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> Over the years I have replaced seals with I put in a new floor, when I
> remodeled bathrooms, when I put in low flush. I have helped several
> friends install toilets. I have never seen anything but the standard wax
> ring, though some are thicker to account for floor thickness. Those
> things are really cheap and a I can't imagine a half decent plumber not
> having one in his truck. For a plumber not to have a coupe wax rings
> in his truck would be like an electrician not to have electrical tape or
> marettes on hand, or a service station not to have any oil.

All I can tell you is I *think* he said it was a some sort of seal or
ring. The only other thing I can tell is that toilet is completely
different from the one in the guest bathroom. I'm not a plumber. If
dude wanted or needed to leave for some other reason, I didn't care. He
came back quickly and fixed the problem. $75 for a plumber around here
is cheap. But I haven't had any other problems with that commode.

Jill

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 18:32:32 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 11/28/2013 9:21 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> Over the years I have replaced seals with I put in a new floor, when I
>> remodeled bathrooms, when I put in low flush. I have helped several
>> friends install toilets. I have never seen anything but the standard wax
>> ring, though some are thicker to account for floor thickness. Those
>> things are really cheap and a I can't imagine a half decent plumber not
>> having one in his truck. For a plumber not to have a coupe wax rings
>> in his truck would be like an electrician not to have electrical tape or
>> marettes on hand, or a service station not to have any oil.
>
>All I can tell you is I *think* he said it was a some sort of seal or
>ring. The only other thing I can tell is that toilet is completely
>different from the one in the guest bathroom. I'm not a plumber. If
>dude wanted or needed to leave for some other reason, I didn't care. He
>came back quickly and fixed the problem. $75 for a plumber around here
>is cheap. But I haven't had any other problems with that commode.
>
>Jill

You said he told you he'd not charge extra for his having to pick up
the part... tradesmen often run out of parts on their truck, no
biggie... they go a few miles and pick up the part for your job and at
the same time they pick up several more parts they're low on or have
run out. Anyway the wax seals for a terlit are beeswax and come in
several thicknesses... some are oddballs that a plumber typically
wouldn't have on his truck.. there are literally *millions* of pl rts,
no plumber stocks everything, it's not possible. Anyway anyone needs
a piece of beeswax a terlit seal is the least expensive way to buy
beeswax. I've been using a terlit seal for more than 20 years as a
source of beeswax; the best zipper lubricant, and excellent for
waterproofing leather. A beeswax terlit seal costs like $6, a one
ounce piece of beeswax otherwise can cost $10+.

On 11/28/2013 5:52 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 11/27/2013 1:00 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2013-11-27 12:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> Home warranty works like this. You pay the warranty company money. If
>>>> something breaks, they spend as little as possible to get things
>>>> working
>>>> again and keep the rest of the money. Put that $500 a year into a
>>>> saving account and you can handle just about anything needed around the
>>>> house.
>>>
>>> In Jill's case it seems that she pays the premiums and when there is a
>>> problem they do nothing.
>>
>> That's not true. When I've had plumbing problems they've been fixed
>> immediately. Where can you get a plumber to fix a leaking toilet for
>> a flat $75, parts included? He even had to make a separate trip to
>> the hardware store to get a special ring seal to fit the toilet.
>>
>> My neighbor's house (as old as mine is) has two water heaters. They
>> replaced both of them over the span of a year or so. Again, a flat
>> service charge. And no, they didn't put in used water heaters.
>>
>> The reason I have this home warranty is because of all the antiquated
>> things in this house. Like the 1987 oven/stove/microwave all-in-one
>> unit. The refrigerator. The washer & dryer. The warranty will pay to
>> replace those things when they finally break down. I asked very
>> specific questions when I purchased the warranty.
>>
>>> FWIW, last year I had a problem with the 220
>>> line to my kitchen range. I called an electrician who a friend had
>>> recommended. He was working on a a job nearby and came by when he was
>>> done there. He found the and fixed the problem, checked for other issues
>>> charged me only $60 cash. A plumber charges $95 just to show up.
>>>
>> Around here it's more like $150, and they charge by the hour. The
>> price of some issues the warranty has covered could easily have cost
>> me more than the annual premium if I didn't have it.
>>
>> A year or two ago the attic fan in my HVAC unit died. The temperature
>> was very hot and it was a *holiday* weekend. The home warranty
>> company couldn't get any of their contractors to answer the phone.
>> (It *was* a holiday weekend, after all.) They told me if I could find
>> some other company to fix it they'd reimburse me for the difference
>> between their service fee and the actual charges. And they did. So I
>> was still only out $75.
>
> Sounds like you have a good deal to me.
>
It works for me. I know a bit about how insurance works. This
*isn't* a policy where after I pay the $75 service fee if they discover
it will cost $1000 or whatever I have to pay an extra 20-30%. No.

I don't believe they're using sub-par contractors, which has been
hinted. Where I live there are lots of small or even family run service
companies. Many close for holidays. They also close around 6PM most
week nights. Like anyone else, they'd like to go home.

IMHO, it's not the warranty company's fault. The contracting company is
paid a capitated rate. (No, they don't just get $75 for doing the job.)

All that to say, I completely understand why I didn't get to talk to the
electrician until early the next morning.

At least I didn't lose any food.

Jill

On 11/28/2013 8:24 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 18:32:32 -0500, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/28/2013 9:21 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> Over the years I have replaced seals with I put in a new floor, when I
>>> remodeled bathrooms, when I put in low flush. I have helped several
>>> friends install toilets. I have never seen anything but the standard wax
>>> ring, though some are thicker to account for floor thickness. Those
>>> things are really cheap and a I can't imagine a half decent plumber not
>>> having one in his truck. For a plumber not to have a coupe wax rings
>>> in his truck would be like an electrician not to have electrical tape or
>>> marettes on hand, or a service station not to have any oil.
>>
>> All I can tell you is I *think* he said it was a some sort of seal or
>> ring. The only other thing I can tell is that toilet is completely
>> different from the one in the guest bathroom. I'm not a plumber. If
>> dude wanted or needed to leave for some other reason, I didn't care. He
>> came back quickly and fixed the problem. $75 for a plumber around here
>> is cheap. But I haven't had any other problems with that commode.
>>
>> Jill
>
> You said he told you he'd not charge extra for his having to pick up
> the part...

No, I said I *knew* I wouldn't have to pay more than the $75 service
charge from the home warranty for the plumber or the part. He never
said one word about his not charging me extra. He didn't try to.

> tradesmen often run out of parts on their truck, no
> biggie...
(snippage)

I agree with that. I don't expect every tradesman to have every part
for every little thing stashed in their van or truck. Especially not if
they have a lot of customers.

This guy said he had to go get whatever part it was. I said sure, go.
I'm not immediately suspicious if someone needs to get (or, as in cars,
order) a part. It's not as if he took off and never came back.

Maybe he grabbed a bite to eat in town after he went to Grayco. I
certainly hope so. His leaving for a short while wasn't a problem. He
came back, finished repairing the toilet. He left. That's all there
was to it. No drama. No leaking or overflowing toilet, either.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/28/2013 5:52 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 11/27/2013 1:00 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> On 2013-11-27 12:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Home warranty works like this. You pay the warranty company money. If
>>>>> something breaks, they spend as little as possible to get things
>>>>> working
>>>>> again and keep the rest of the money. Put that $500 a year into a
>>>>> saving account and you can handle just about anything needed around
>>>>> the
>>>>> house.
>>>>
>>>> In Jill's case it seems that she pays the premiums and when there is a
>>>> problem they do nothing.
>>>
>>> That's not true. When I've had plumbing problems they've been fixed
>>> immediately. Where can you get a plumber to fix a leaking toilet for
>>> a flat $75, parts included? He even had to make a separate trip to
>>> the hardware store to get a special ring seal to fit the toilet.
>>>
>>> My neighbor's house (as old as mine is) has two water heaters. They
>>> replaced both of them over the span of a year or so. Again, a flat
>>> service charge. And no, they didn't put in used water heaters.
>>>
>>> The reason I have this home warranty is because of all the antiquated
>>> things in this house. Like the 1987 oven/stove/microwave all-in-one
>>> unit. The refrigerator. The washer & dryer. The warranty will pay to
>>> replace those things when they finally break down. I asked very
>>> specific questions when I purchased the warranty.
>>>
>>>> FWIW, last year I had a problem with the 220
>>>> line to my kitchen range. I called an electrician who a friend had
>>>> recommended. He was working on a a job nearby and came by when he was
>>>> done there. He found the and fixed the problem, checked for other
>>>> issues
>>>> charged me only $60 cash. A plumber charges $95 just to show up.
>>>>
>>> Around here it's more like $150, and they charge by the hour. The
>>> price of some issues the warranty has covered could easily have cost
>>> me more than the annual premium if I didn't have it.
>>>
>>> A year or two ago the attic fan in my HVAC unit died. The temperature
>>> was very hot and it was a *holiday* weekend. The home warranty
>>> company couldn't get any of their contractors to answer the phone.
>>> (It *was* a holiday weekend, after all.) They told me if I could find
>>> some other company to fix it they'd reimburse me for the difference
>>> between their service fee and the actual charges. And they did. So I
>>> was still only out $75.
>>
>> Sounds like you have a good deal to me.
>>
> It works for me. I know a bit about how insurance works. This *isn't*
> a policy where after I pay the $75 service fee if they discover it will
> cost $1000 or whatever I have to pay an extra 20-30%. No.
>
> I don't believe they're using sub-par contractors, which has been hinted.
> Where I live there are lots of small or even family run service companies.
> Many close for holidays. They also close around 6PM most week nights.
> Like anyone else, they'd like to go home.
>
> IMHO, it's not the warranty company's fault. The contracting company is
> paid a capitated rate. (No, they don't just get $75 for doing the job.)
>
> All that to say, I completely understand why I didn't get to talk to the
> electrician until early the next morning.
>
> At least I didn't lose any food.

Yes! And that was a relief!!!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/