There is Chinese food and then there is Americanized Chinese food.
Both can be delicious, but it's always good to know the difference
between the two.
http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10...e-dont-eat.php

1) Crab Wontons: These deep-fried dumplings filled with crabmeat and
cream cheese are popular...but nobody eats cheese in China. We're all
lactose intolerant. But we do like to curdle other things, like
fermented bean paste and duck blood.


2) General Tso's Chicken: Come on, this guy was too busy warding off
rebellions to be cooking. This recipe is strictly American—chunks of
chicken battered, fried and sweetened for Western tastes. No one in
Hunan had even heard of this before 1970.


3) Chop Suey: Ah yes, the garbage disposal of the omelet world.
Refrigerator scraps stir-fried and topped with an egg. It is said that
some Chinese cook working during the Gold Rush served it as a personal
"**** you" to some drunk American miners.



4) Pu Pu Platter: Everything about this appetizer is an affront to
poor people. It's nothing but fried, greasy egg rolls, spare ribs,
chicken wings and beef teriyaki—which isn't even Chinese!


5) Sweet 'n' Sour Pork: Chunks of pork, battered, deep-fried and
slimed in a thick orange sauce. There are obvious Southern barbecue
influences here.


6) Sweet 'n' Sour Chicken: same treatment, but it's all white meat
because somehow that makes it better. With pieces of pineapple to
assuage your guilt.


7) Salad: We cook our food. When dysentery is a concern, you would
too.


8) Egg Rolls: Does anyone eat these? These thick-skinned, blistered
rolls that look like Linda Blair's face in The Exorcist are nothing
like the real Chinese spring rolls, which are smaller, thin and
crispy—and edible.


9) Beef and broccoli: There's really nothing wrong with this dish,
except that we don't have Western broccoli in the East.


10) Fortune cookies: Another ploy to amuse Westerners, these
flag-bearers of fortune don't even tell you good news anymore, only
your closely guarded shortcomings. Chinese people eat something more
fortuitous for dessert: oranges. They're good luck.



--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

Very poor article. The author should at least have researched the origin of the dishes instead of making stupid irrelevant quips.

On Monday, February 10, 2014 5:24:52 PM UTC-5, Helpful person wrote:
> Very poor article. The author should at least have researched the origin of the dishes instead of making stupid irrelevant quips.

I agree.

On 2/10/2014 5:14 PM, sf wrote:
> There is Chinese food and then there is Americanized Chinese food.
> Both can be delicious, but it's always good to know the difference
> between the two.
> http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10...e-dont-eat.php
>
> 1) Crab Wontons: These deep-fried dumplings filled with crabmeat and
> cream cheese are popular...but nobody eats cheese in China. We're all
> lactose intolerant. But we do like to curdle other things, like
> fermented bean paste and duck blood.
>
>
> 2) General Tso's Chicken: Come on, this guy was too busy warding off
> rebellions to be cooking. This recipe is strictly American—chunks of
> chicken battered, fried and sweetened for Western tastes. No one in
> Hunan had even heard of this before 1970.
>
>
> 3) Chop Suey: Ah yes, the garbage disposal of the omelet world.
> Refrigerator scraps stir-fried and topped with an egg. It is said that
> some Chinese cook working during the Gold Rush served it as a personal
> "**** you" to some drunk American miners.
>
>
>
> 4) Pu Pu Platter: Everything about this appetizer is an affront to
> poor people. It's nothing but fried, greasy egg rolls, spare ribs,
> chicken wings and beef teriyaki—which isn't even Chinese!
>
>
> 5) Sweet 'n' Sour Pork: Chunks of pork, battered, deep-fried and
> slimed in a thick orange sauce. There are obvious Southern barbecue
> influences here.
>
>
> 6) Sweet 'n' Sour Chicken: same treatment, but it's all white meat
> because somehow that makes it better. With pieces of pineapple to
> assuage your guilt.
>
>
> 7) Salad: We cook our food. When dysentery is a concern, you would
> too.
>
>
> 8) Egg Rolls: Does anyone eat these? These thick-skinned, blistered
> rolls that look like Linda Blair's face in The Exorcist are nothing
> like the real Chinese spring rolls, which are smaller, thin and
> crispy—and edible.
>
>
> 9) Beef and broccoli: There's really nothing wrong with this dish,
> except that we don't have Western broccoli in the East.
>
>
> 10) Fortune cookies: Another ploy to amuse Westerners, these
> flag-bearers of fortune don't even tell you good news anymore, only
> your closely guarded shortcomings. Chinese people eat something more
> fortuitous for dessert: oranges. They're good luck.

Mostly pretty correct but rather old news. There is so-called Chinese
Broccoli but I like it as little as regular. *Very many* Chinese but not
all are lactose intolerant. I know Fortune Cookies were probably
invented in San Francisco but they are fun anyway. The chicken was named
*for* General Tso; nobody thinks he was a cook.


--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 2014-02-10, James Silverton > wrote:

>> 3) Chop Suey: Ah yes, the garbage disposal of the omelet world.

What horsecrap. I've been eating Americanized Chinese food for 60
yrs. Never once eaten Chop Suey with an egg within miles of the
dish. Author must be thinking of Egg Foo Young.

The rest of the article is hogwash, too. Chin/Amer food was not made
as revenge on round-eyes, but to make being a Chinese restaurateur
easier/quicker/cheaper. Yeah, the fortune cookie was a gimmick, but
probably invented by a Nip. Besides, who gives a rat's ass. The
pizza was most likely invented by Persians.

nb

Helpful person wrote:
>
>Very poor article.

Only fat assed know nothing *sf* could post such crap.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> There is Chinese food and then there is Americanized Chinese food.
> Both can be delicious, but it's always good to know the difference
> between the two.
> http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10...e-dont-eat.php
>
> 1) Crab Wontons: These deep-fried dumplings filled with crabmeat and
> cream cheese are popular...but nobody eats cheese in China. We're all
> lactose intolerant. But we do like to curdle other things, like
> fermented bean paste and duck blood.
>
>
> 2) General Tso's Chicken: Come on, this guy was too busy warding off
> rebellions to be cooking. This recipe is strictly American-chunks of
> chicken battered, fried and sweetened for Western tastes. No one in
> Hunan had even heard of this before 1970.
>
>
> 3) Chop Suey: Ah yes, the garbage disposal of the omelet world.
> Refrigerator scraps stir-fried and topped with an egg. It is said that
> some Chinese cook working during the Gold Rush served it as a personal
> "**** you" to some drunk American miners.
>
>
>
> 4) Pu Pu Platter: Everything about this appetizer is an affront to
> poor people. It's nothing but fried, greasy egg rolls, spare ribs,
> chicken wings and beef teriyaki-which isn't even Chinese!
>
>
> 5) Sweet 'n' Sour Pork: Chunks of pork, battered, deep-fried and
> slimed in a thick orange sauce. There are obvious Southern barbecue
> influences here.
>
>
> 6) Sweet 'n' Sour Chicken: same treatment, but it's all white meat
> because somehow that makes it better. With pieces of pineapple to
> assuage your guilt.
>
>
> 7) Salad: We cook our food. When dysentery is a concern, you would
> too.
>
>
> 8) Egg Rolls: Does anyone eat these? These thick-skinned, blistered
> rolls that look like Linda Blair's face in The Exorcist are nothing
> like the real Chinese spring rolls, which are smaller, thin and
> crispy-and edible.
>
>
> 9) Beef and broccoli: There's really nothing wrong with this dish,
> except that we don't have Western broccoli in the East.
>
>
> 10) Fortune cookies: Another ploy to amuse Westerners, these
> flag-bearers of fortune don't even tell you good news anymore, only
> your closely guarded shortcomings. Chinese people eat something more
> fortuitous for dessert: oranges. They're good luck.

Yep. I don't eat any of those things. I do like a few authentic dishes but
out here they are a little hard to come by. Not many of the places here
sell them. Have to go to the International District.

"Helpful person" > wrote in message
...
> Very poor article. The author should at least have researched the origin
> of the dishes instead of making stupid irrelevant quips.

True but I think most of us here know the origins of at least some of those
dishes.

On 2014-02-10 5:14 PM, sf wrote:
> There is Chinese food and then there is Americanized Chinese food.
> Both can be delicious, but it's always good to know the difference
> between the two.
> http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10...e-dont-eat.php
>
> 1) Crab Wontons: These deep-fried dumplings filled with crabmeat and
> cream cheese are popular...but nobody eats cheese in China. We're all
> lactose intolerant. But we do like to curdle other things, like
> fermented bean paste and duck blood.


Around here, those things are called crab Rangoon.

>
>
> 2) General Tso's Chicken: Come on, this guy was too busy warding off
> rebellions to be cooking. This recipe is strictly American—chunks of
> chicken battered, fried and sweetened for Western tastes. No one in
> Hunan had even heard of this before 1970.
>
>
> 3) Chop Suey: Ah yes, the garbage disposal of the omelet world.
> Refrigerator scraps stir-fried and topped with an egg. It is said that
> some Chinese cook working during the Gold Rush served it as a personal
> "**** you" to some drunk American miners.

Egg in Chop Suey?? Not around here. However, the only difference between
Chop Suey and Chow Mein is those crispy noodles. However, if you order
Cantonese Chow Mein the noodles are soft.


>
>
>
> 4) Pu Pu Platter: Everything about this appetizer is an affront to
> poor people. It's nothing but fried, greasy egg rolls, spare ribs,
> chicken wings and beef teriyaki—which isn't even Chinese!
>
>
> 5) Sweet 'n' Sour Pork: Chunks of pork, battered, deep-fried and
> slimed in a thick orange sauce. There are obvious Southern barbecue
> influences here.
>
>
> 6) Sweet 'n' Sour Chicken: same treatment, but it's all white meat
> because somehow that makes it better. With pieces of pineapple to
> assuage your guilt.
>
>
> 7) Salad: We cook our food. When dysentery is a concern, you would
> too.
>
>
> 8) Egg Rolls: Does anyone eat these? These thick-skinned, blistered
> rolls that look like Linda Blair's face in The Exorcist are nothing
> like the real Chinese spring rolls, which are smaller, thin and
> crispy—and edible.

I confess that I like them. I also like Spring Rolls, which usually have
the same ingredients and are served with the same sauces.


>
>
> 9) Beef and broccoli: There's really nothing wrong with this dish,
> except that we don't have Western broccoli in the East.
>


can't help it ... reminds me of the old joke about the young Chinese
couple who wanted to spice up their sex life. The wife suggested that
they try number 69, and the husband says "What?? You want beef and
broccoli?"




However.... what are we to know? We go to a place that is billed as a
Chinese restaurant, staffed by Chinese people and get food cooked by
Chinese cooks. How silly of us not to know that it is not genuine.

On 2014-02-10 6:02 PM, notbob wrote:

> The rest of the article is hogwash, too. Chin/Amer food was not made
> as revenge on round-eyes, but to make being a Chinese restaurateur
> easier/quicker/cheaper. Yeah, the fortune cookie was a gimmick, but
> probably invented by a Nip. Besides, who gives a rat's ass. The
> pizza was most likely invented by Persians.
>
How knows? Around here, most of the good pizzerias are run by Greeks.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:24:52 -0800 (PST), Helpful person wrote:
>
>> Very poor article. The author should at least have researched the
>> origin of the dishes instead of making stupid irrelevant quips.
>
> It's even worse than I thought. In the original article:
>
> <http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10/31/10-chinese-dishes-that-real-chinese-people-dont-eat.php>
>
> Look what they pictured for "Chop Suey": Macaroni and beef with a
> side salad.
>
> And for "salad", WTF ever saw a plain tossed salad on an
> American-Chinese menu? Maybe in Iowa they it, but not anywhere I've
> been. And contrary to the article, Chinese eat plenty of raw
> vegetables.
>
> That's some quality reporting they have there. Turns out Mary Kong's
> "real" job is a "spa therapist".

The various Teriyaki takeout places that are almost as common as drive
through coffee huts here do a salad. Yeah, I know that Teriyaki isn't
Chinese but a lot of people don't seem to know that. Including some of the
"Chinese" restaurants here. The salad is no more than a hunk of iceberg
lettuce. I have no clue why they do that. Perhaps they think it helps to
lessen the effect of all the grease they put in their food.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2014-02-10 5:14 PM, sf wrote:
>> There is Chinese food and then there is Americanized Chinese food.
>> Both can be delicious, but it's always good to know the difference
>> between the two.
>> http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10...e-dont-eat.php
>>
>> 1) Crab Wontons: These deep-fried dumplings filled with crabmeat and
>> cream cheese are popular...but nobody eats cheese in China. We're all
>> lactose intolerant. But we do like to curdle other things, like
>> fermented bean paste and duck blood.
>
>
> Around here, those things are called crab Rangoon.
>
Those were mentioned to me before and I had to look them up as I don't think
I ever saw them on any menu. I do think that we did get them in NY though.
Angela had a Sagwa (The Chinese Siamese Kitten) party in NY and I had a
Chinese food place deliver the food. I ordered some kind of party package
in addition to some other foods. Everybody was complaining that there
weren't enough crab wontons. *shrug* I had no idea they'd be so popular as
we don't eat crab. I did order a ton of Teriyaki chicken sticks as I knew
the kids loved those. This place was hardly what I'd call authentic Chinese
food but it was the place the neighbors all ordered from so I went with it.

<snip>

>> 8) Egg Rolls: Does anyone eat these? These thick-skinned, blistered
>> rolls that look like Linda Blair's face in The Exorcist are nothing
>> like the real Chinese spring rolls, which are smaller, thin and
>> crispy—and edible.
>
> I confess that I like them. I also like Spring Rolls, which usually have
> the same ingredients and are served with the same sauces.

I have never liked Egg Rolls but I do like Spring Rolls.

On 2/10/2014 12:14 PM, sf wrote:
> There is Chinese food and then there is Americanized Chinese food.
> Both can be delicious, but it's always good to know the difference
> between the two.
> http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10...e-dont-eat.php
>
> 1) Crab Wontons: These deep-fried dumplings filled with crabmeat and
> cream cheese are popular...but nobody eats cheese in China. We're all
> lactose intolerant. But we do like to curdle other things, like
> fermented bean paste and duck blood.

They don't serve crab/cheese won tons in Chinese restaurants over here.
I guess we're not American enough. The Panda chain just added these
items to their menu. Cream cheese is kinda goofy in Chinese restaurants.
My guess is that it is served in trendy Asian fusion restaurants but for
most traditional places, it's won ton backwards - not now!

One thing that is served in every Chinese restaurant over here is cake
noodle. I love that stuff although you won't find it in any Chinese
restaurant in China or America, only Hawaii. I do not know why this is
so. No matter, it will be served in the rest of the US sooner or later.


>
>
> 2) General Tso's Chicken: Come on, this guy was too busy warding off
> rebellions to be cooking. This recipe is strictly American—chunks of
> chicken battered, fried and sweetened for Western tastes. No one in
> Hunan had even heard of this before 1970.
>
>
> 3) Chop Suey: Ah yes, the garbage disposal of the omelet world.
> Refrigerator scraps stir-fried and topped with an egg. It is said that
> some Chinese cook working during the Gold Rush served it as a personal
> "**** you" to some drunk American miners.
>
>
>
> 4) Pu Pu Platter: Everything about this appetizer is an affront to
> poor people. It's nothing but fried, greasy egg rolls, spare ribs,
> chicken wings and beef teriyaki—which isn't even Chinese!
>
>
> 5) Sweet 'n' Sour Pork: Chunks of pork, battered, deep-fried and
> slimed in a thick orange sauce. There are obvious Southern barbecue
> influences here.
>
>
> 6) Sweet 'n' Sour Chicken: same treatment, but it's all white meat
> because somehow that makes it better. With pieces of pineapple to
> assuage your guilt.
>
>
> 7) Salad: We cook our food. When dysentery is a concern, you would
> too.
>
>
> 8) Egg Rolls: Does anyone eat these? These thick-skinned, blistered
> rolls that look like Linda Blair's face in The Exorcist are nothing
> like the real Chinese spring rolls, which are smaller, thin and
> crispy—and edible.
>
>
> 9) Beef and broccoli: There's really nothing wrong with this dish,
> except that we don't have Western broccoli in the East.
>
>
> 10) Fortune cookies: Another ploy to amuse Westerners, these
> flag-bearers of fortune don't even tell you good news anymore, only
> your closely guarded shortcomings. Chinese people eat something more
> fortuitous for dessert: oranges. They're good luck.
>
>
>

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 18:54:48 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> Egg in Chop Suey?? Not around here. However, the only difference between
>> Chop Suey and Chow Mein is those crispy noodles. However, if you order
>> Cantonese Chow Mein the noodles are soft.
>
> You must be referring to Canadian chow mein. Chow mein and lo mein,
> the noodles are always soft. Just like they are in China.

What? American Chow Mein uses the crispy noodles. Ick! I hate those
things.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:17:36 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

> They don't serve crab/cheese won tons in Chinese restaurants over here.

The only time I hear about that stuff is here on rfc, so it's being
served somewhere - but not where we eat. I was wondering if that
"crab rangoon" stuff posters always gush here about is the crab/cheese
won ton in question.
http://octaviasvintage.wordpress.com...ooo-delicious/

> I guess we're not American enough.

Probably not. I thought General Tso's Chicken was strictly NYC until
someone tried to show what an idiot I was and posted that it was on a
menu in a restaurant an hour away. Now I see that it's in the hot
food section of the deli in my supermarket... I like it! It's not hot
enough for me, but it would send Ophelia into outer space.

> The Panda chain just added these
> items to their menu. Cream cheese is kinda goofy in Chinese restaurants.
> My guess is that it is served in trendy Asian fusion restaurants but for
> most traditional places, it's won ton backwards - not now!
>
> One thing that is served in every Chinese restaurant over here is cake
> noodle. I love that stuff although you won't find it in any Chinese
> restaurant in China or America, only Hawaii. I do not know why this is
> so. No matter, it will be served in the rest of the US sooner or later.

I have my likes too. Actually a lot of likes; but your cake noodles
immediately brought up an image of sizzling rice soup... something
that can only be fully appreciated in a restaurant at the moment when
they slip the rice into the bowl of soup at the table.



--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:31:12 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 18:54:48 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> Egg in Chop Suey?? Not around here. However, the only difference
>>>> between
>>>> Chop Suey and Chow Mein is those crispy noodles. However, if you order
>>>> Cantonese Chow Mein the noodles are soft.
>>>
>>> You must be referring to Canadian chow mein. Chow mein and lo mein,
>>> the noodles are always soft. Just like they are in China.
>>
>> What? American Chow Mein uses the crispy noodles. Ick! I hate those
>> things.
>
> Chow mein, by definition, is a stir-fried wet noodle. Lo mein is the
> same noodle, steamed. These crispy cracker things you buy in the bags
> or cans from La Choy and Chun King and covered with a gloopy sauce of
> celery and mung beans is some sort of Northern U.S. *******ization.
>
> And then there's the in-between version that's similar to dsi1's "cake
> noodle" with is a pancake of noodles soft on the inside and crispty on
> the outside.
>
> But the Chinese versions (lo mein and chow mein) is stir-fried steamed
> or boiled noodles with various vegetables, optional meat, and no sauce
> (except what absorbs into the noodles and veggies). And that is the
> most prominent I've seen in my travels across the U.S.

Well, I don't like Chow Mein so never ordered it in a restaurant. At school
they served it over scoop of rice with just a few of those crispy noodles on
top. Wasn't good, but tolerable. At home? We had a big plate of those
crispy noodles with the canned crap on top. Yick!

My friend who is from Minnesota remembers eating it the way we had it at
home.

On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:14:37 PM UTC-8, sf wrote:

> There is Chinese food and then there is Americanized Chinese food.
> Both can be delicious, but it's always good to know the difference
> between the two.
>
> http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10...e-dont-eat.php
>
>
>
> 1) Crab Wontons: These deep-fried dumplings filled with crabmeat and
> cream cheese are popular..

On the East Coast, maybe.


>
> 2) General Tso's Chicken: Come on, this guy was too busy warding off
> rebellions to be cooking. This recipe is strictly American—chunks of
> chicken battered, fried and sweetened for Western tastes. No one in
> Hunan had even heard of this before 1970.
>

This raises the question: Can a Chinese chef create an authentic Chinese
dish once he emigrates from China? If not, can a Chinese chef create
an authentic dish even if he never leaves China?

>
> 3) Chop Suey: Ah yes, the garbage disposal of the omelet world.
> Refrigerator scraps stir-fried and topped with an egg. It is said that
> some Chinese cook working during the Gold Rush served it as a personal
> "**** you" to some drunk American miners.

Three problems: This dish was created before refrigeration existed; it never
had an egg (is the author thinking of Egg Foo Yung?) and it ALWAYS had
bean sprouts.

Bean sprouts being the only authentic vegetable that could be grown anywhere
any time. Chop suey was a Chinese style dish made with ingredients available
to us barbarians.

A recently defunct SF restaurant, Kam's near the Balboa Theater, was the
only SF Chinese restaurant I knew of to have Chop Suey on the menu.


> 4) Pu Pu Platter: Everything about this appetizer is an affront to
> poor people. It's nothing but fried, greasy egg rolls, spare ribs,
> chicken wings and beef teriyaki— which isn't even Chinese!

Right, what Chinese person could even imagine combining sugar and soy
sauce?

The pupu platter was essentially invented by Trader Vic's, as he combined
island and Asian cuisine for us Americans.


>
> 5) Sweet 'n' Sour Pork: Chunks of pork, battered, deep-fried and
> slimed in a thick orange sauce. There are obvious Southern barbecue
> influences here.

The local SF equivalent is Lemon Chicken, which can be delicious.

> 7) Salad: We cook our food. When dysentery is a concern, you would
> too.

Yes, where vegetables are fertilized with "night soil," raw vegetables
are not advised. But another classic SF dish is "Chinese chicken salad,"
an Asian-American variation of the Tostada salad.


> 8) Egg Rolls: Does anyone eat these? These thick-skinned, blistered
> rolls that look like Linda Blair's face in The Exorcist are nothing
> like the real Chinese spring rolls, which are smaller, thin and
> crispy—and edible.

Spring rolls are crispy? I think the author's thinking of lumpia, which
are crisp. Eggrolls always contain shrimp.

>
> 9) Beef and broccoli: There's really nothing wrong with this dish,
> except that we don't have Western broccoli in the East.

If you are going to sell Chinese food without having access to Chinese
vegetables, broccoli is a reasonable substitute for gai lan.

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:59:52 PM UTC+10, wrote:
> On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:14:37 PM UTC-8, sf wrote:
> >
> > http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10...e-dont-eat.php
[...]
> > 2) General Tso's Chicken: Come on, this guy was too busy warding off
> > rebellions to be cooking. This recipe is strictly American—chunks of
> > chicken battered, fried and sweetened for Western tastes. No one in
> > Hunan had even heard of this before 1970.

Given that it was invented in Taiwan in about 1970 (or in New York during the '70s, depending on the version of the story), it's no surprise that no one in Hunan had heard of it before 1970.

> This raises the question: Can a Chinese chef create an authentic Chinese
> dish once he emigrates from China? If not, can a Chinese chef create
> an authentic dish even if he never leaves China?

I'd consider the Taiwanese version to be an authentic Chinese dish, beyond all doubt. The restaurant was a Hunanese restaurant, and people might quibble about whether or not it's an authentic Hunanese dish.

Jennifer 8. Lee wrote quite a bit about the authenticity of such dishes in her book (The fortune cookie chronicles). http://fortunecookiechronicles.com/

> wrote in message
...


>
> 2) General Tso's Chicken: Come on, this guy was too busy warding off
> rebellions to be cooking. This recipe is strictly American-chunks of
> chicken battered, fried and sweetened for Western tastes. No one in
> Hunan had even heard of this before 1970.
>

This raises the question: Can a Chinese chef create an authentic Chinese
dish once he emigrates from China? If not, can a Chinese chef create
an authentic dish even if he never leaves China?

---

And what happens if a Chinese person in China eats a hamburger? Or a peanut
butter sandwich? Do they have to eat Chinese food all the time? Cuz we
here in the US eat all sorts of things.

Julie Bove wrote:
>

> This raises the question: Can a Chinese chef create an authentic Chinese
> dish once he emigrates from China? If not, can a Chinese chef create
> an authentic dish even if he never leaves China?
>
> ---
>
> And what happens if a Chinese person in China eats a hamburger? Or a peanut
> butter sandwich? Do they have to eat Chinese food all the time? Cuz we
> here in the US eat all sorts of things.

They have McDonald's in China. It's true - I saw it on an old Drew
Carey Show episode. heheh

G.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>
>> This raises the question: Can a Chinese chef create an authentic Chinese
>> dish once he emigrates from China? If not, can a Chinese chef create
>> an authentic dish even if he never leaves China?
>>
>> ---
>>
>> And what happens if a Chinese person in China eats a hamburger? Or a
>> peanut
>> butter sandwich? Do they have to eat Chinese food all the time? Cuz we
>> here in the US eat all sorts of things.
>
> They have McDonald's in China. It's true - I saw it on an old Drew
> Carey Show episode. heheh

Yep. But... Would it be authentic American?

On 2014-02-11, Sqwertz > wrote:

> And I don't believe that the crispy kind is the default kind in even
> Seattle, but an image search seems kinda split on the subject.

I argued this issue to death way back on alt.ba. Here's the facts:

I grew up eating in Chinese restos. This in CA with the largest
Chinese population in the US. Chinese American restos usta serve chow
mein as a bean sprout centric dish over crispy noodles. There may
have been a pan fried version, but I never saw it. Perhaps my parents
didn't like pan fried. Still this bean sprouts over cripy noodles
thing was available in every Chinese resto from Bakerfield to Modesto
to Sacramento, from the mid 50s till at least the early 70s. The last
time I saw chow mein bean/crispy was in Sacto in '71, at Frank Fats,
at one time the biggest Chinese resto in Sac. Multiple locations.

Fast forward to '78. Coming out of a 7 yr hiatus on Chinese food, I
had Chinese take-out at my fiance's house. Pan fried noodles, which
I'd never even heard of until that very night. From that point on,
never saw crispy needles or bean sprouts ever again, with one
exception. It's like the whole crispy noodle and bean sprout thing
never existed. This is now in the San Francisco Bay Area (SFBA). I
did some research. Minnie's in Modesto, which is still there and has
been for 60 some yrs, now serves only limp pan fried noodle chow mein
and I know damn well they served the crispy/bean chow mein when I was
a kid. Likewise, Frank Fat's in Sacto, now serves only pan fried
noodles.

The exception? A little Chinese place down in Visalia CA. They serve
it both ways and ask which the customer prefers when ordering. Either
way, crispy or fried, the primary ingredient is bean sprouts.

So, what happened? I think it jes became too expensive to make it
with bean sprouts, crispy or pan fried. Waaay cheaper to jes pan fry
a buncha greasy noodles. What proof do I have? Only my memory and
the fact, as you admit, you can still find crispy noodles in yer local
sprmkt, along with canned Chung King chow mein (bean sprouts!). Hell,
we even have 'em, here in Eyebrow CO. Try and find some Chinese
noodles to pan fry. Short of boiling up a pkg of ramen, then draining
and greasy pan frying 'em, not gonna happen. Nuff sed.

nb

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:59:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:

> Three problems: This dish was created before refrigeration existed; it never
> had an egg (is the author thinking of Egg Foo Yung?) and it ALWAYS had
> bean sprouts.
>
Although I've never heard of chop Suey being
served with an egg on top, lack of refrigeration
is irrelevant.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 2/11/2014 8:40 AM, Helpful person wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:59:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>
>> Three problems: This dish was created before refrigeration existed; it never
>> had an egg (is the author thinking of Egg Foo Yung?) and it ALWAYS had
>> bean sprouts.
>>
> Although I've never heard of chop Suey being
> served with an egg on top, lack of refrigeration
> is irrelevant.
>
> http://www.richardfisher.com
>
AFAIK, Chop Suey was invented for Westerners by 19th century Chinese
cooks in California. It's not all that bad and is less greasy than many
dishes composed of fried food with sweet sauces tho' I prefer real
Chinese food. As far as taste is concerned, the egg on top is fine too.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 2/10/2014 8:40 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:17:36 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> They don't serve crab/cheese won tons in Chinese restaurants over here.
>
> The only time I hear about that stuff is here on rfc, so it's being
> served somewhere - but not where we eat. I was wondering if that
> "crab rangoon" stuff posters always gush here about is the crab/cheese
> won ton in question.
> http://octaviasvintage.wordpress.com...ooo-delicious/

I have had the crab rangoon at Pandas, it was OK although they were
skimping on the filling. There was nothing wrong with the idea but it
doesn't seem very Chinese to me so I wouldn't order it in a Chinese
restaurant. If I saw it on the menu at a Chili's or Ruby Tuesday, I'd
give it a go.

>
>> I guess we're not American enough.
>
> Probably not. I thought General Tso's Chicken was strictly NYC until
> someone tried to show what an idiot I was and posted that it was on a
> menu in a restaurant an hour away. Now I see that it's in the hot
> food section of the deli in my supermarket... I like it! It's not hot
> enough for me, but it would send Ophelia into outer space.
>
>> The Panda chain just added these
>> items to their menu. Cream cheese is kinda goofy in Chinese restaurants.
>> My guess is that it is served in trendy Asian fusion restaurants but for
>> most traditional places, it's won ton backwards - not now!
>>
>> One thing that is served in every Chinese restaurant over here is cake
>> noodle. I love that stuff although you won't find it in any Chinese
>> restaurant in China or America, only Hawaii. I do not know why this is
>> so. No matter, it will be served in the rest of the US sooner or later.
>
> I have my likes too. Actually a lot of likes; but your cake noodles
> immediately brought up an image of sizzling rice soup... something
> that can only be fully appreciated in a restaurant at the moment when
> they slip the rice into the bowl of soup at the table.

I've never had sizzling rice soup although I have heard it speak in
restaurants. Pretty cool stuff. Those Chinese!

You can buy fried chow mein noodles shaped into a cake that's around a
foot in diameter here. I don't know if it's sold on the mainland. The
idea is that put the cake of noodles on a big plate and you add stir fry
with extra gravy on top. The gravy softens the noodles. My high school
friend says that I once made a plate of that stuff when we were in
school and my brother, for some reason, took it upon himself to eat the
entire thing. I don't remember the incident - probably too traumatic. :-)

OTOH, if you say "cake noodle" around here, we mean crispy fried Chinese
egg noodles that are pressed into a cake and cut into a square. I think
that a lot of people will eat in a Chinese restaurant just to get their
cake noodle fix. That would include me.

http://dining.staradvertiser.com/201...n-cake-noodle/


>
>
>

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Gary" wrote:
> > They have McDonald's in China. It's true - I saw it on an old Drew
> > Carey Show episode. heheh
>
> Yep. But... Would it be authentic American?

McDonald's are in many countries but I do know that they offer
variations of their food (things that we don't get here in the USA).
That said, I would think that they also offer the same items that we
can buy here.

I love McD but I only eat there 2-3 times a year. I got the bug on the
way home from work today so I stopped by there and bought 4
McDoubles. Yum. 2 for dinner and the other 2 for snacks. As I was
leaving, I noticed on their sign outside that every Wednesday is $1
quarter pounder day. hmmmmm.

G.

On 2/11/2014 12:30 PM, Gary wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "Gary" wrote:
>>> They have McDonald's in China. It's true - I saw it on an old Drew
>>> Carey Show episode. heheh
>>
>> Yep. But... Would it be authentic American?
>
> McDonald's are in many countries but I do know that they offer
> variations of their food (things that we don't get here in the USA).
> That said, I would think that they also offer the same items that we
> can buy here.

We have saimin and poi pies at McDonald's. I have no idea who the hell
eats those pies. They are pretty much what you'd expect a fried pie
stuffed with taro would be. Not good!

>
> I love McD but I only eat there 2-3 times a year. I got the bug on the
> way home from work today so I stopped by there and bought 4
> McDoubles. Yum. 2 for dinner and the other 2 for snacks. As I was
> leaving, I noticed on their sign outside that every Wednesday is $1
> quarter pounder day. hmmmmm.
>
> G.
>

4 McDoubles - jeepers!

On 2/11/2014 5:47 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 2/11/2014 12:30 PM, Gary wrote:
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> "Gary" wrote:
>>>> They have McDonald's in China. It's true - I saw it on an old Drew
>>>> Carey Show episode. heheh
>>>
>>> Yep. But... Would it be authentic American?
>>
>> McDonald's are in many countries but I do know that they offer
>> variations of their food (things that we don't get here in the USA).
>> That said, I would think that they also offer the same items that we
>> can buy here.
>
> We have saimin and poi pies at McDonald's. I have no idea who the hell
> eats those pies. They are pretty much what you'd expect a fried pie
> stuffed with taro would be. Not good!
>
>>
>> I love McD but I only eat there 2-3 times a year. I got the bug on the
>> way home from work today so I stopped by there and bought 4
>> McDoubles. Yum. 2 for dinner and the other 2 for snacks. As I was
>> leaving, I noticed on their sign outside that every Wednesday is $1
>> quarter pounder day. hmmmmm.
>>
>
Saimin at McD's around Honolulu is tolerable if that is the only place
to get it. Now, at Lahaina on Maui, Saimin is something else!


--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "Gary" wrote:
>> > They have McDonald's in China. It's true - I saw it on an old Drew
>> > Carey Show episode. heheh
>>
>> Yep. But... Would it be authentic American?
>
> McDonald's are in many countries but I do know that they offer
> variations of their food (things that we don't get here in the USA).
> That said, I would think that they also offer the same items that we
> can buy here.
>
> I love McD but I only eat there 2-3 times a year. I got the bug on the
> way home from work today so I stopped by there and bought 4
> McDoubles. Yum. 2 for dinner and the other 2 for snacks. As I was
> leaving, I noticed on their sign outside that every Wednesday is $1
> quarter pounder day. hmmmmm.

Heh is that all. They deep fry pies, pizzas and mars bars here) AND NO,
I haven't tried them)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2/11/2014 12:50 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> Saimin at McD's around Honolulu is tolerable if that is the only place
> to get it. Now, at Lahaina on Maui, Saimin is something else!
>
>

Saimin is tough to get right. Back in the 60s and 70s, one could get a
nice bowl because there were many saimin shops in Honolulu. A lot of
them were hole in the wall, low rent places, with a counter to sit at.
The problem is that you pretty much have to cook the noodles to order
and not let cooked noodles sit. The guy making the saimin will grab a
mound of noodles and throw them in a giant pot of simmering water. After
a couple of minutes, they fish the noodles out with a net and rinse them
in cold water. The noodles are then placed in a bowl and hot broth is
poured on top. It's so simple! Unfortunately, most places don't cook
noodles this way and you get gummy, soggy, noodles. A tragedy!

I was in Maui, last weekend. Too bad. Do you know of any hole in the
wall, low rent shops, with a counter to sit at?

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:47:27 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> On 2/11/2014 12:30 PM, Gary wrote:
>
> > Julie Bove wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> "Gary" wrote:
>
> >>> They have McDonald's in China. It's true - I saw it on an old Drew
>
> >>> Carey Show episode. heheh
>
> >>
>
> >> Yep. But... Would it be authentic American?
>
> >
>
> > McDonald's are in many countries but I do know that they offer
>
> > variations of their food (things that we don't get here in the USA).
>
> > That said, I would think that they also offer the same items that we
>
> > can buy here.
>
>
>
> We have saimin and poi pies at McDonald's. I have no idea who the hell
>
> eats those pies. They are pretty much what you'd expect a fried pie
>
> stuffed with taro would be. Not good!
>
>
>
> >
>
> > I love McD but I only eat there 2-3 times a year. I got the bug on the
>
> > way home from work today so I stopped by there and bought 4
>
> > McDoubles. Yum. 2 for dinner and the other 2 for snacks. As I was
>
> > leaving, I noticed on their sign outside that every Wednesday is $1
>
> > quarter pounder day. hmmmmm.
>
> > G.
>
> 4 McDoubles - jeepers!

Back when they were $1, I'd buy 3, all no ketchup, extra pickle and onion,
two of them with no bun--which came with a piece of iceberg in lieu of bun.
Then I'd have a sextuple cheeseburger for $3. If I were less hungry, a
quadruple for $2.

--B

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...

> Once upon a time... LOL I discovered a package of wheat noodles just like
> that in the pantry. Yes, it looked like ramen. A "brick" of them, as you
> say. They were in the original wrapper (yes, a red label). Soba noodles.
> My dad probably bought them at the commissary on Parris Island.
> Possibly many years before 2008. I threw them away.

I had those. I used them for a Chinese Chicken Salad from my Betty Crocker
cookbook. The recipe said to fry the noodles. Nothing was said about
cooking them first. You can imagine what the end result was and where the
salad went. I told my friend and she laughed. Said I should have used
fresh noodles. Oops!

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:59:52 -0800 (PST),
> wrote:
>
>> A recently defunct SF restaurant, Kam's near the Balboa Theater, was the
>> only SF Chinese restaurant I knew of to have Chop Suey on the menu.
>
> I have never seen Chop Suey anywhere except in a can at the grocery
> store. But I didn't travel the Northeast a lot.
>
>> Spring rolls are crispy? I think the author's thinking of lumpia, which
>> are crisp. Eggrolls always contain shrimp.
>
> Spring rolls are crispy. What you're thinking are actually SUMMER
> rolls. But when the Thai started selling food in America, they
> erroneously started calling the rice-paper-wrapped raw veggie rolls
> spring rolls just to confuse everybody.
>
> Look at "spring roll wrappers" in the grocery store imported from
> China (in the freezer section near the won ton wrappers). They are
> meant to be fried.

I've seen them either way.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "Gary" wrote:
>> > They have McDonald's in China. It's true - I saw it on an old Drew
>> > Carey Show episode. heheh
>>
>> Yep. But... Would it be authentic American?
>
> McDonald's are in many countries but I do know that they offer
> variations of their food (things that we don't get here in the USA).
> That said, I would think that they also offer the same items that we
> can buy here.
>
> I love McD but I only eat there 2-3 times a year. I got the bug on the
> way home from work today so I stopped by there and bought 4
> McDoubles. Yum. 2 for dinner and the other 2 for snacks. As I was
> leaving, I noticed on their sign outside that every Wednesday is $1
> quarter pounder day. hmmmmm.

I wonder if that's a local thing? Our has started getting stingy on sauces
and condiments. They only allow you so many. Perhaps you could get more
for a fee.

On 2/11/2014 1:42 PM, Bryan-TGWWW wrote:
>
> Back when they were $1, I'd buy 3, all no ketchup, extra pickle and onion,
> two of them with no bun--which came with a piece of iceberg in lieu of bun.
> Then I'd have a sextuple cheeseburger for $3. If I were less hungry, a
> quadruple for $2.
>
> --B
>

Jeepers - people on the mainland eat a lot!

I'll have to try getting a McDouble to see if I can eat a double. Double
burgers have never appealed to me. The idea of eating a quad burger
makes me feel ill. 6? Fuggetaboutit!

OTOH, the idea of eating cheaply and having somebody else prepare the
food has always appealed to me. I used to get one baked potato and one
small cup of chili at Burger King for a dollar each. The chili was
dumped on the potato and presto - instant heartburn for only $2. Perhaps
not as impressive as a 6 burger burger but at least i could eat the
whole thing.

On Monday, February 10, 2014 5:14:37 PM UTC-5, sf wrote:
> There is Chinese food and then there is Americanized Chinese food.
>
> Both can be delicious, but it's always good to know the difference
>
> between the two.
>
> http://dc.eater.com/archives/2011/10...e-dont-eat.php
>
>
>
> 1) Crab Wontons: These deep-fried dumplings filled with crabmeat and
>
> cream cheese are popular...but nobody eats cheese in China. We're all
>
> lactose intolerant. But we do like to curdle other things, like
>
> fermented bean paste and duck blood.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2) General Tso's Chicken: Come on, this guy was too busy warding off
>
> rebellions to be cooking. This recipe is strictly American—chunks of
>
> chicken battered, fried and sweetened for Western tastes. No one in
>
> Hunan had even heard of this before 1970.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3) Chop Suey: Ah yes, the garbage disposal of the omelet world.
>
> Refrigerator scraps stir-fried and topped with an egg. It is said that
>
> some Chinese cook working during the Gold Rush served it as a personal
>
> "**** you" to some drunk American miners.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 4) Pu Pu Platter: Everything about this appetizer is an affront to
>
> poor people. It's nothing but fried, greasy egg rolls, spare ribs,
>
> chicken wings and beef teriyaki—which isn't even Chinese!
>
>
>
>
>
> 5) Sweet 'n' Sour Pork: Chunks of pork, battered, deep-fried and
>
> slimed in a thick orange sauce. There are obvious Southern barbecue
>
> influences here.
>
>
>
>
>
> 6) Sweet 'n' Sour Chicken: same treatment, but it's all white meat
>
> because somehow that makes it better. With pieces of pineapple to
>
> assuage your guilt.
>
>
>
>
>
> 7) Salad: We cook our food. When dysentery is a concern, you would
>
> too.
>
>
>
>
>
> 8) Egg Rolls: Does anyone eat these? These thick-skinned, blistered
>
> rolls that look like Linda Blair's face in The Exorcist are nothing
>
> like the real Chinese spring rolls, which are smaller, thin and
>
> crispy—and edible.
>
>
>
>
>
> 9) Beef and broccoli: There's really nothing wrong with this dish,
>
> except that we don't have Western broccoli in the East.
>
>
>
>
>
> 10) Fortune cookies: Another ploy to amuse Westerners, these
>
> flag-bearers of fortune don't even tell you good news anymore, only
>
> your closely guarded shortcomings. Chinese people eat something more
>
> fortuitous for dessert: oranges. They're good luck.
>
>
>


If you've never been to China, I guess it tough to know what the average Chinese eats. This is like the old who-invented-pizza discussions or what constitutes chili ..... ad nauseam.

On 2/11/2014 6:04 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 2/11/2014 12:50 PM, James Silverton wrote:
>> Saimin at McD's around Honolulu is tolerable if that is the only place
>> to get it. Now, at Lahaina on Maui, Saimin is something else!
>>
>>
>
> Saimin is tough to get right. Back in the 60s and 70s, one could get a
> nice bowl because there were many saimin shops in Honolulu. A lot of
> them were hole in the wall, low rent places, with a counter to sit at.
> The problem is that you pretty much have to cook the noodles to order
> and not let cooked noodles sit. The guy making the saimin will grab a
> mound of noodles and throw them in a giant pot of simmering water. After
> a couple of minutes, they fish the noodles out with a net and rinse them
> in cold water. The noodles are then placed in a bowl and hot broth is
> poured on top. It's so simple! Unfortunately, most places don't cook
> noodles this way and you get gummy, soggy, noodles. A tragedy!
>
> I was in Maui, last weekend. Too bad. Do you know of any hole in the
> wall, low rent shops, with a counter to sit at?

Sorry, it's a while since I was in Hawaii but but the temple of saimin
is Hamura's in Lihue, Kauai. Like many things Hawaiian, it is
cross-cultural contamination (“fusion" to be polite) but it is basically
Japanese noodle soup with practically any additions allowed. It can have
no fat or a little depending on the additions or the noodles used.
Spaghetti noodles have a smaller fat content than Ramen.



--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 2/11/2014 7:26 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 2/11/2014 1:42 PM, Bryan-TGWWW wrote:
>>
>> Back when they were $1, I'd buy 3, all no ketchup, extra pickle and
>> onion,
>> two of them with no bun--which came with a piece of iceberg in lieu of
>> bun.
>> Then I'd have a sextuple cheeseburger for $3. If I were less hungry, a
>> quadruple for $2.
>>
>> --B
>>
>
> Jeepers - people on the mainland eat a lot!
>
Please don't make that assumption based on something Bryan says.

Jill

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/11/2014 1:42 PM, Bryan-TGWWW wrote:
>>
>> Back when they were $1, I'd buy 3, all no ketchup, extra pickle and
>> onion,
>> two of them with no bun--which came with a piece of iceberg in lieu of
>> bun.
>> Then I'd have a sextuple cheeseburger for $3. If I were less hungry, a
>> quadruple for $2.
>>
>> --B
>>
>
> Jeepers - people on the mainland eat a lot!
>
> I'll have to try getting a McDouble to see if I can eat a double. Double
> burgers have never appealed to me. The idea of eating a quad burger makes
> me feel ill. 6? Fuggetaboutit!
>
> OTOH, the idea of eating cheaply and having somebody else prepare the food
> has always appealed to me. I used to get one baked potato and one small
> cup of chili at Burger King for a dollar each. The chili was dumped on the
> potato and presto - instant heartburn for only $2. Perhaps not as
> impressive as a 6 burger burger but at least i could eat the whole thing.

The patties are very small. They were called double burgers when I was a
kid and I ate them then.

Hmmm... I don't think the BK here ever had baked potatoes. Not sure about
chili either. They did have tacos in NY. Those were not bad. But they
didn't have them for long.

On 2/11/2014 4:30 PM, Gary wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "Gary" wrote:
>>> They have McDonald's in China. It's true - I saw it on an old Drew
>>> Carey Show episode. heheh
>>
>> Yep. But... Would it be authentic American?
>
> McDonald's are in many countries but I do know that they offer
> variations of their food (things that we don't get here in the USA).
> That said, I would think that they also offer the same items that we
> can buy here.

I had the experience of lunch at a McDonald's in Fussen, Germany (home
of Newschwanstein Castle). I don't remember anything on the menu that
we don't have here, but their food isn't all that exotic. I had a fish
sandwich and fries. Tasted just like it does at home, but then... I'm
sure they get the same frozen food we do.

I wasn't surprised to find, in Garmisch, Germany, another McDonald's and
a Pizza Hut. Didn't try either.

--
DreadfulBitch

There is no love more sincere than the love of food.
....George Bernard Shaw