Higher prices in the grocery store and more imports. It takes 3
gallons of water to produce a tomato. If you made me choose between
broccoli and strawberries as guzzling the most water, I'd have picked
strawberries. I had no idea broccoli was so thirsty!

http://m.motherjones.com/environment...as-water-going


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

sf wrote:
>
> Higher prices in the grocery store and more imports.

I expect that's what will happen, at least initially.

What really needs to happen is a large scale shift to aquaponic farming
which uses 75% less water than old-school dirt farming, is typically
"organic" and also is not dependent on an area with "good" soil, needing
only a modest water supply and a good sun supply.

The problem of course is that farms are currently heavily invested in
both expensive "dirt" farm land and also expensive "dirt" farm
machinery, so it will be quite expensive to transition. Of course the
fact that they can sell the current farmland for other development and
start new farms in areas that are less desirable for development might
help cover some of the costs of transitioning.

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
>
> sf wrote:
>>
>> Higher prices in the grocery store and more imports.
>
> I expect that's what will happen, at least initially.
>
> What really needs to happen is a large scale shift to aquaponic farming
> which uses 75% less water than old-school dirt farming, is typically
> "organic" and also is not dependent on an area with "good" soil, needing
> only a modest water supply and a good sun supply.
>
> The problem of course is that farms are currently heavily invested in
> both expensive "dirt" farm land and also expensive "dirt" farm
> machinery, so it will be quite expensive to transition. Of course the
> fact that they can sell the current farmland for other development and
> start new farms in areas that are less desirable for development might
> help cover some of the costs of transitioning.


When global war arrives again, and it will, it will be over water rights.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:35:03 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> What really needs to happen is a large scale shift to aquaponic farming
> which uses 75% less water than old-school dirt farming, is typically
> "organic" and also is not dependent on an area with "good" soil, needing
> only a modest water supply and a good sun supply.

Who is to say that aquaponic farming will sip water and not turn into
the polluted messes that fish farming has become?


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

"sf" > wrote in message
news
> Higher prices in the grocery store and more imports. It takes 3
> gallons of water to produce a tomato. If you made me choose between
> broccoli and strawberries as guzzling the most water, I'd have picked
> strawberries. I had no idea broccoli was so thirsty!
>
> http://m.motherjones.com/environment...as-water-going
>

higher taxes for the few that pay them.

And when water returns to California, the result will be even more higher
taxes for the few that pay them.

"The Other Guy" > wrote in message

> I'll switch from broccoli to cabbage, at least partly, but it will
> really bother me to have to cut back on tomatoes, but at least those
> are available locally grown, and at less than supermarket prices,
> especially the ones from my landlords garden.
>
> With MY help, I expect him to triple the production he had last year.

I expect that there will be a lot more shared gardens springing up.
Personally, I could do without broccoli and tomatoes easily, though I do
like them, but I would be lost without cauliflower, cabbage, and zucchini.

Cheri

sf wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:35:03 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > What really needs to happen is a large scale shift to aquaponic farming
> > which uses 75% less water than old-school dirt farming, is typically
> > "organic" and also is not dependent on an area with "good" soil, needing
> > only a modest water supply and a good sun supply.
>
> Who is to say that aquaponic farming will sip water and not turn into
> the polluted messes that fish farming has become?

A decade or two of aquaponics around the world provides good evidence
that it won't. Aquaponic systems perform better when run "organically".

On 2014-02-25, Sqwertz > wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:51:34 -0800, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>> When global war arrives again, and it will, it will be over water rights.
>
> Nestle has already started that war.

It's been going on, now, for quite some time. Watch the movie, Blue
Gold: World Water Wars. It touches on the water war that took place
in 2000 in Bolivia. That's 14 yrs ago. More specifically, it's about
how the world's fresh water is quickly disappearing and how major
world corporations have already bought entire country's water rights,
not to mention some US cities water rights, thanks to leverage from
the World Bank.

Then watch the film, Last Call At the Oasis, a 2011 film that predicts
CAs future water crisis 10 to 60 yrs from now. Well, it's happening
as I write this. Little to no snow in the Sierras. Worse, the water
that IS left is so polluted, you can light yer tap water on fire (Split
Estate, '09).

In short, it's already too late. We've already screwed the pooch. 8|

nb

On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:28:49 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> sf wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:35:03 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > What really needs to happen is a large scale shift to aquaponic farming
> > > which uses 75% less water than old-school dirt farming, is typically
> > > "organic" and also is not dependent on an area with "good" soil, needing
> > > only a modest water supply and a good sun supply.
> >
> > Who is to say that aquaponic farming will sip water and not turn into
> > the polluted messes that fish farming has become?
>
> A decade or two of aquaponics around the world provides good evidence
> that it won't. Aquaponic systems perform better when run "organically".

All that will change after agribusiness gets into it.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

notbob wrote:
>
> On 2014-02-25, Sqwertz > wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:51:34 -0800, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> >
> >> When global war arrives again, and it will, it will be over water rights.
> >
> > Nestle has already started that war.
>
> It's been going on, now, for quite some time. Watch the movie, Blue
> Gold: World Water Wars. It touches on the water war that took place
> in 2000 in Bolivia. That's 14 yrs ago. More specifically, it's about
> how the world's fresh water is quickly disappearing and how major
> world corporations have already bought entire country's water rights,
> not to mention some US cities water rights, thanks to leverage from
> the World Bank.
>
> Then watch the film, Last Call At the Oasis, a 2011 film that predicts
> CAs future water crisis 10 to 60 yrs from now. Well, it's happening
> as I write this. Little to no snow in the Sierras. Worse, the water
> that IS left is so polluted, you can light yer tap water on fire (Split
> Estate, '09).
>
> In short, it's already too late. We've already screwed the pooch. 8|

Perhaps, we should be concentrating less on making better and better
fancy ass cell phones, and put our scientific research more towards a
good desalinization process. There is plenty of water on this planet
but needs to be fresh.

G.

On 2014-02-25, Sqwertz > wrote:

> Desalination is very energy intensive. Much more economical to let
> the sun do it.

Yep. According to Blue Gold, desalination is a fools dream. Bottom
line, too many ppl drinking too little H2O. They're building a new
de-sal plant down in SoCal. I think a new coal power plant feeds
it. Good thinking. Make it, then pollute it. Brilliant!

It'll all be OK after the sixth extinction event, the one where ma'
earth gets fed up and stomps us pesky humanoids into nothing but a
memory and a few fossils. Wait a couple million yrs and the ol' orb
will be good as new.

nb

Gary wrote:
>
> Perhaps, we should be concentrating less on making better and better
> fancy ass cell phones, and put our scientific research more towards a
> good desalinization process. There is plenty of water on this planet
> but needs to be fresh.
>

We have it, it's called Reverse Osmosis. It's already being used at city
scales successfully. A key consideration in the energy equation is the
fact that we have to pump the water for use anyway, so pumping it
through RO filters doesn't affect the energy use by that much.

notbob wrote:
>
> On 2014-02-25, Sqwertz > wrote:
>
> > Desalination is very energy intensive. Much more economical to let
> > the sun do it.
>
> Yep. According to Blue Gold, desalination is a fools dream.

The producers of such films tend to be more than a little bit biased.
The fact is that RO desalination has been used at city scale for some
time and has proven itself to be quite reasonable. You have to pump the
water anyway to use it, so pumping it through RO filters does not add
significantly to the energy costs.

If / when we finally get serious about tidal power generation which is
far more viable than wind power generation, we'll find that our power
generation is conveniently located near the source of the water we need
to pump through RO filters to desalinate.

On 2014-02-25, Sqwertz > wrote:

> And more recently, Nestle's rush to buy up the world's water rights in
> the movie "Bottled Life"

Ha! They jes built a Nestle pumping plant 6 miles up-stream from me.
It's about a 1/4 mile from the Arkansas R and I'm about 50 miles from
where the Ark R begins as a snow trickle. This entire valley is the
Arkansas Headwaters Watershed and is still fairly good water. In
fact, it was recently awarded "gold" status, as a highly productive
trout fishery, but that only after 20 yrs of envrironmental effort to
clean up the once filthy Ark. At the very beginning of the river is
Fremont Pass, once a superfund site for the dirtiest molybdenum mine
in the US.

This part of the Ark is also the most whitewater rafted river in the
country and fortunately, the tourist industry has been able to hold
the insanely polluting nat-gas fracking companies at bay. There's not
a one in this valley. Astonishing, since parts of CO have been
literally reduced to ghost towns by fracking pollution. I should be
OK, unless it stops snowing, like 2 yrs ago and now in CA. 8|

nb

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
>
> sf wrote:
>>
>> Higher prices in the grocery store and more imports.
>
> I expect that's what will happen, at least initially.
>
> What really needs to happen is a large scale shift to aquaponic farming
> which uses 75% less water than old-school dirt farming, is typically
> "organic" and also is not dependent on an area with "good" soil, needing
> only a modest water supply and a good sun supply.

And some feed. I have a very small hydroponic unit and I usually grow
tomatoes.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:44:44 -0500, Gary wrote:
>
>> Perhaps, we should be concentrating less on making better and better
>> fancy ass cell phones, and put our scientific research more towards a
>> good desalinization process. There is plenty of water on this planet
>> but needs to be fresh.
>
> Desalination is very energy intensive. Much more economical to let
> the sun do it.
>
> -sw


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

it'll either save us all or kill us all, or fail benignly

unless the asteroid hits us first

On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:08:08 PM UTC-8, The Other Guy wrote:

> I'll switch from broccoli to cabbage, at least partly, but it will
> really bother me to have to cut back on tomatoes, but at least those
> are available locally grown, and at less than supermarket prices,
> especially the ones from my landlords garden.
>

Dryfarmed tomatoes have more concentrated flavor.

> With MY help, I expect him to triple the production he had last year.
>

What's your plan?

Ophelia wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > sf wrote:
> >>
> >> Higher prices in the grocery store and more imports.
> >
> > I expect that's what will happen, at least initially.
> >
> > What really needs to happen is a large scale shift to aquaponic farming
> > which uses 75% less water than old-school dirt farming, is typically
> > "organic" and also is not dependent on an area with "good" soil, needing
> > only a modest water supply and a good sun supply.
>
> And some feed. I have a very small hydroponic unit and I usually grow
> tomatoes.

Aquaponic, not hydroponic. The difference is that Aquaponics assembles a
symbiotic loop between fish farming tanks and hydroponic grow beds. Yes,
you still need input into the system, but not as much as you might think
and it can come from many organic sources.

On 2014-02-25 05:00:10 +0000, Sqwertz said:

> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:51:34 -0800, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>> When global war arrives again, and it will, it will be over water rights.
>
> Nestle has already started that war.

Can you provide additional info on that?

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
>
> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> "Pete C." > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > sf wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Higher prices in the grocery store and more imports.
>> >
>> > I expect that's what will happen, at least initially.
>> >
>> > What really needs to happen is a large scale shift to aquaponic farming
>> > which uses 75% less water than old-school dirt farming, is typically
>> > "organic" and also is not dependent on an area with "good" soil,
>> > needing
>> > only a modest water supply and a good sun supply.
>>
>> And some feed. I have a very small hydroponic unit and I usually grow
>> tomatoes.
>
> Aquaponic, not hydroponic. The difference is that Aquaponics assembles a
> symbiotic loop between fish farming tanks and hydroponic grow beds. Yes,
> you still need input into the system, but not as much as you might think
> and it can come from many organic sources.

Quite so, and I agree there is a difference, but -whichever system you use,
it won't flourish with plain water!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 14:25:07 -0800, gtr > wrote:

>On 2014-02-25 05:00:10 +0000, Sqwertz said:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:51:34 -0800, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>
>>> When global war arrives again, and it will, it will be over water rights.
>>
>> Nestle has already started that war.
>
>Can you provide additional info on that?

Water has been the 'new oil' for quite some time now.

http://www.dailypaul.com/283087/nest...al-human-right

http://thethinkering.com/articles/20...erest-paraguay

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26124989

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Wa..._Trade_BG.html

http://climatesoscanada.org/blog/201...ter-worldwide/

http://www.newsfocus.org/water_grab.htm

On 2014-02-26 00:20:22 +0000, Jeßus said:

> On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 14:25:07 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
>> On 2014-02-25 05:00:10 +0000, Sqwertz said:
>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:51:34 -0800, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>
>>>> When global war arrives again, and it will, it will be over water rights.
>>>
>>> Nestle has already started that war.
>>
>> Can you provide additional info on that?
>
> Water has been the 'new oil' for quite some time now.
>
> http://www.dailypaul.com/283087/nest...al-human-right
>
>
> http://thethinkering.com/articles/20...erest-paraguay
>
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26124989
>
> http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Wa..._Trade_BG.html
>
> http://climatesoscanada.org/blog/201...ter-worldwide/
>
>
> http://www.newsfocus.org/water_grab.htm

Thank you, sir.

Sqwertz wrote:
>
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 12:34:36 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Gary wrote:
> >>
> >> Perhaps, we should be concentrating less on making better and better
> >> fancy ass cell phones, and put our scientific research more towards a
> >> good desalinization process. There is plenty of water on this planet
> >> but needs to be fresh.
> >>
> >
> > We have it, it's called Reverse Osmosis. It's already being used at city
> > scales successfully. A key consideration in the energy equation is the
> > fact that we have to pump the water for use anyway, so pumping it
> > through RO filters doesn't affect the energy use by that much.
>
> RO is not used at the City level except for when the City water supply
> may be subject to contamination. And it's not a desalination
> solution.
>
> -sw

You are entirely incorrect. RO desalination is being used at city scale
in both the middle east and Austrailia currently, and probably a few
other locations. Do some research on it...

On 2014-02-26, Sqwertz > wrote:

> Insert [slow Dueling Banjoes]
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFutge4xn3w
> [one of the top 20 movie scenes of all time]

Fun flick. FYI: Billy Reddin, the kid playing the banjo, was neither
inbred, moronic, nor a banjo player. He was picked from the local
school based strictly on his appearance (inbred, moronic, etc).

I kinda wish we were that rural. In the summer, when the tourists and
snowbirds flock to this valley, it may be great for the tourism biz
(rafting, fly fishing), but it's brutal on locals. Last summer, I was
almost in two high speed accidents in one short 8 mile trip to the
nearest town (2K pop) cuz of drunk out-of-towners on the "blood alley"
of a two lane hwy that runs the valley's length. It's a blood alley
cuz of all the deer that get hit by clueless drivers. Blood smears
every few miles, year round. I expect our first traffic backups
within the next year or two.

nb

On 2014-02-26 10:16:57 +0000, Sqwertz said:

> On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:12:51 +0000 (UTC), tert in seattle wrote:
>
>> unless the asteroid hits us first
>
> Cool! There's an Asteroid coming? I'll gladly pay for ticket at
> Ground Zero!
>
> (for my wife - I'll take one of the arks in the Himalayas)

I had no idea you were married, does she ever get a chance to elbow her
way into the kitchen?

I think I'll take ground zero too and get it over with quickly. I'm a
weanie with pain.

On 2014-02-26 10:19:10 +0000, Sqwertz said:

> On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 14:25:07 -0800, gtr wrote:
>
>> On 2014-02-25 05:00:10 +0000, Sqwertz said:
>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:51:34 -0800, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>
>>>> When global war arrives again, and it will, it will be over water rights.
>>>
>>> Nestle has already started that war.
>>
>> Can you provide additional info on that?
>
> Here's a spoon, Google "nestle water rights"

Thanks, "water rights" would certainly slim it down from "global war".
Still, too much information on the internet is as useless as too
little. I love a good New Yorker article...

gtr wrote:
> On 2014-02-26 10:16:57 +0000, Sqwertz said:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:12:51 +0000 (UTC), tert in seattle wrote:
>>
>>> unless the asteroid hits us first
>>
>> Cool! There's an Asteroid coming? I'll gladly pay for ticket at
>> Ground Zero!
>>
>> (for my wife - I'll take one of the arks in the Himalayas)
>
> I had no idea you were married, does she ever get a chance to elbow her
> way into the kitchen?
>
> I think I'll take ground zero too and get it over with quickly. I'm a
> weanie with pain.

I'm looking forward to seeing someone try to shoot it with a very big gun

On 2014-02-26 22:46:09 +0000, Sqwertz said:

> On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 09:50:05 -0800, gtr wrote:
>
>> On 2014-02-26 10:16:57 +0000, Sqwertz said:
>>
>>> On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:12:51 +0000 (UTC), tert in seattle wrote:
>>>
>>>> unless the asteroid hits us first
>>>
>>> Cool! There's an Asteroid coming? I'll gladly pay for ticket at
>>> Ground Zero!
>>>
>>> (for my wife - I'll take one of the arks in the Himalayas)
>>
>> I had no idea you were married, does she ever get a chance to elbow her
>> way into the kitchen?
>
> She's in prison for killing my ex-girlfriend.

I sure hope that's a joke.

On 2014-02-27 04:23:03 +0000, Sqwertz said:

> On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 18:05:37 -0800, gtr wrote:
>
>> On 2014-02-26 22:46:09 +0000, Sqwertz said:
>>
>>> On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 09:50:05 -0800, gtr wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2014-02-26 10:16:57 +0000, Sqwertz said:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:12:51 +0000 (UTC), tert in seattle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> unless the asteroid hits us first
>>>>>
>>>>> Cool! There's an Asteroid coming? I'll gladly pay for ticket at
>>>>> Ground Zero!
>>>>>
>>>>> (for my wife - I'll take one of the arks in the Himalayas)
>>>>
>>>> I had no idea you were married, does she ever get a chance to elbow her
>>>> way into the kitchen?
>>>
>>> She's in prison for killing my ex-girlfriend.
>>
>> I sure hope that's a joke.
>
> 15 years to life, eligible for parole this year.

Yikes! Well hell. I wish y'all the best of luck with the parole,
whichever way it figures.

ObFood: On a whim whittled up some left-over grilled eggplant in with
the marinara, local spicy Italian sausage, linguini. It made a way
bigger difference than we expected. I won't forget that soon. Leftover
arugula salad with walnuts, and an incredible Cotes de Rhone.

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 18:05:37 -0800, gtr > wrote:

> On 2014-02-26 22:46:09 +0000, Sqwertz said:
>
> > On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 09:50:05 -0800, gtr wrote:
> >
> >> On 2014-02-26 10:16:57 +0000, Sqwertz said:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:12:51 +0000 (UTC), tert in seattle wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> unless the asteroid hits us first
> >>>
> >>> Cool! There's an Asteroid coming? I'll gladly pay for ticket at
> >>> Ground Zero!
> >>>
> >>> (for my wife - I'll take one of the arks in the Himalayas)
> >>
> >> I had no idea you were married, does she ever get a chance to elbow her
> >> way into the kitchen?
> >
> > She's in prison for killing my ex-girlfriend.
>
> I sure hope that's a joke.

You bet it is... there's no such thing as an ex-girlfriend for him.




--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On 2014-02-27, Sqwertz > wrote:

> ObFood: Cobb salad for dinner. I forgot the hard boiled egg.
> Sosueme.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sqwertz...3893/lightbox/

Damn sw! You don't half-step. Izzat ham and cukes and a pickled
beet? Plus h/b eggs? Is there any lettuce?

I went all cobb salad apey last week. but jes the basic five (chkn,
cado, bac, toma, blu chs). Seems almost piker-ish, now.

nb

On 2014-02-27, Sqwertz > wrote:

> romaine heart with Girard's champagne vinaigrette dressing.

Pretty impressive. Girard's Champagne was my fave dressing for years.
Now I jes go nuts and top my cobbs with even more blue cheese
dressing. I love stinky blue cheeses.

nb

On 2014-02-28, Sqwertz > wrote:

> bottled dressings (except for Marie's and some other refrigerated
> brands).

Yep. Maries Chunky Blue Cheese in the 25oz bottle.

nb

On 2014-02-28, Sqwertz > wrote:

> What I'd love to find is their
> Roquefort. They may have discontinued it.

Now that I think on it, I haven't seen it, too.

> Roquefort from Sprouts.

Shopped a Sprouts, once. Nothing like that, hereabouts. The cheese
selection here is abysmal, Safeway being the main vein. I typically
buy whatever blue cheese dressing is on sale. Even the blue cheese is
pitiful, so not worth making my own. Sad.

nb

Sqwertz wrote:
>
> gtr wrote:
>
> > Sqwertz said:
> >> She's in prison for killing my ex-girlfriend.
> >
> > I sure hope that's a joke.
>
> 15 years to life, eligible for parole this year.

:-O