The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'..
However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make the worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made from garden ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient which I omitted when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I purchased?
etc.
Where do you draw the line?

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
> Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make the worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made from garden ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient which I omitted when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
> If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I purchased?
> etc.
> Where do you draw the line?

If I have to put ingredients together to make something else, it's
home made. If I can open a jar, can or frozen food, heat and eat
without fussing around then it's not home made. Feel better now?


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

>The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
>Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make the worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made from garden ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient which I omitted when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
>If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I purchased?
>etc.
>Where do you draw the line?

Well, first you kill a beast then harvest some vegetables
(hunter/gatherer style!) then brings them all inside (or not?) and
make a stew!

Next question?

John Kuthe...

On Friday, February 28, 2014 12:39:37 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
>
> Well, first you kill a beast then harvest some vegetables
> (hunter/gatherer style!) then brings them all inside (or not?) and
> make a stew!
> John Kuthe...

Isn't it easier to feed the vegetables to the beast so that you don't have to
cook them separately in the stew?

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

>The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
>Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make the worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made from garden ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient which I omitted when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
>If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I purchased?
>etc.
>Where do you draw the line?

Oh, man! Did you have to hit that hornet's nest with a club? Run!!!
Janet US

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:47:07 -0800 (PST), Helpful person
> wrote:

>On Friday, February 28, 2014 12:39:37 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
>>
>> Well, first you kill a beast then harvest some vegetables
>> (hunter/gatherer style!) then brings them all inside (or not?) and
>> make a stew!
>> John Kuthe...
>
>Isn't it easier to feed the vegetables to the beast so that you don't have to
>cook them separately in the stew?

Beast turns the vegetables into meat. I suppose it's OK if you prefer
to eat meat only.

John Kuthe...

John Kuthe wrote:
>Helpful person wrote:
>>John Kuthe wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, first you kill a beast then harvest some vegetables
>>> (hunter/gatherer style!) then brings them all inside (or not?) and
>>> make a stew!
>>
>>Isn't it easier to feed the vegetables to the beast so that you don't have to
>>cook them separately in the stew?
>
>Beast turns the vegetables into meat. I suppose it's OK if you prefer
>to eat meat only.

Um, Helpful intended to eat the beast's excrement.

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
> Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make
> the worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made from
> garden ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient which I
> omitted when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
> If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I purchased?
> etc.
> Where do you draw the line?

If it's an abstraction, who cares where the abstract borders lie?

I figure if I should or want to take credit for a dish, a sauce, or
some such, I'll call it home made. If I sprinkle or pour something over
a purchased pot-pie, or canned/frozen food, I wouldn't call that home
made. If I made a pie in a store-bought shell, I'd call it home made,
no matter what the hell was in it.

If I made a made a packaged dinner, like a pilaf mix or falafel I
wouldn't call it home made, but I would call it home *cooking*.
Actually I don't think I really use the phrase "home made" it seems to
have lost its meaning unless it's like a quenelle or something. Or
perhaps to distinguish it from the obvious alternative: "home made"
yogurt, or "home made fried chicken.

Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 14:58:40 -0500, Brooklyn1
> wrote:

>John Kuthe wrote:
>>Helpful person wrote:
>>>John Kuthe wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, first you kill a beast then harvest some vegetables
>>>> (hunter/gatherer style!) then brings them all inside (or not?) and
>>>> make a stew!
>>>
>>>Isn't it easier to feed the vegetables to the beast so that you don't have to
>>>cook them separately in the stew?
>>
>>Beast turns the vegetables into meat. I suppose it's OK if you prefer
>>to eat meat only.
>
>Um, Helpful intended to eat the beast's excrement.

Um, no!! Not much. It's all been digested once, and probably has most
of the nutrients gone at that point.

That was the part of Human Centipede which blew my willing suspension
of disbelief! A doctor shouold now that would never work! The latter
grafed humans' bodies would never receive sufficient nutrition!!
Should have had an evil NURSE as his assistant! ;-)

John Kuthe...

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:07:49 -0800, gtr > wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote:
>
>> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
>> Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make
>> the worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made from
>> garden ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient which I
>> omitted when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
>> If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I purchased?
>> etc.
>> Where do you draw the line?
>
>If it's an abstraction, who cares where the abstract borders lie?
>
>I figure if I should or want to take credit for a dish, a sauce, or
>some such, I'll call it home made. If I sprinkle or pour something over
>a purchased pot-pie, or canned/frozen food, I wouldn't call that home
>made. If I made a pie in a store-bought shell, I'd call it home made,
>no matter what the hell was in it.
>
>If I made a made a packaged dinner, like a pilaf mix or falafel I
>wouldn't call it home made, but I would call it home *cooking*.
>Actually I don't think I really use the phrase "home made" it seems to
>have lost its meaning unless it's like a quenelle or something. Or
>perhaps to distinguish it from the obvious alternative: "home made"
>yogurt, or "home made fried chicken.
>
>Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?

How come this post is under my post and not the Moose'? Is that a flaw
of my newsreader?

John Kuthe...

"gtr" > wrote in message news:2014022812074920171-xxx@yyyzzz...
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> > wrote:
>
>> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home
>> Made'.
>> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
>> Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make the
>> worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made from garden
>> ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient which I omitted
>> when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
>> If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I
>> purchased?
>> etc.
>> Where do you draw the line?
>
> If it's an abstraction, who cares where the abstract borders lie?
>
> I figure if I should or want to take credit for a dish, a sauce, or some
> such, I'll call it home made. If I sprinkle or pour something over a
> purchased pot-pie, or canned/frozen food, I wouldn't call that home made.
> If I made a pie in a store-bought shell, I'd call it home made, no matter
> what the hell was in it.
>
> If I made a made a packaged dinner, like a pilaf mix or falafel I wouldn't
> call it home made, but I would call it home *cooking*. Actually I don't
> think I really use the phrase "home made" it seems to have lost its
> meaning unless it's like a quenelle or something. Or perhaps to
> distinguish it from the obvious alternative: "home made" yogurt, or "home
> made fried chicken.
>
> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?

Probably. I prefer to cook all our food from scratch but that doesn't make
it better, just different preferences really.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2014-02-28 3:19 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>

>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>
> Probably. I prefer to cook all our food from scratch but that doesn't
> make it better, just different preferences really.
>

It probably is much better.... for most decent cooks. Some people
consider being able to stick something in the oven and heating it up to
be home cooking. Some people consider throwing a bunch or processed
components together and cooking it to be home cooking. Some figure that
is has to be all made from basic ingredients to be cooked.

Take lasagne as an example. A lot of people buy them pre made and
frozen at the grocery store, while others might before the to be from a
higher quality supplier. Others will assemble them at home, opening up
cans of pasta sauce and packs of grated cardboard cheese, maybe actually
frying the meat that goes into the sauce.

Others will make the sauce from scratch.....note that jarred or canned
tomatoes are preserved foods which IMO count as home cooking. I also
consider dried pasta as a valid component to home cooking.

At any rate.... there is a line in there somewhere.

On 2014-02-28 20:17:15 +0000, John Kuthe said:

> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:07:49 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>>> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.

[...]

>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>
> How come this post is under my post and not the Moose'? Is that a flaw
> of my newsreader?
>
> John Kuthe...

Maybe, maybe not. I stripped your response and header since I was
responding to post you responded to. Different Newsreaders handle this
differently.

On 2014-02-28 20:51:00 +0000, Dave Smith said:

> On 2014-02-28 3:19 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>
>>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>>
>> Probably. I prefer to cook all our food from scratch but that doesn't
>> make it better, just different preferences really.
>>
>
> It probably is much better.... for most decent cooks. Some people
> consider being able to stick something in the oven and heating it up to
> be home cooking. Some people consider throwing a bunch or processed
> components together and cooking it to be home cooking.

Good point: Better to let them call it what they like and encourage
their growth.

> Take lasagne as an example. A lot of people buy them pre made and
> frozen at the grocery store, while others might before the to be from a
> higher quality supplier. Others will assemble them at home, opening
> up cans of pasta sauce and packs of grated cardboard cheese, maybe
> actually frying the meat that goes into the sauce.

A better example might be a pasta dish. If you dump a jar of marinara
over a pasta you cooked your self, is it "home made"? It's certainly
not "made from scratch" the phrase Ophelia used--which is a pretty
exacting phrase.

Because the time, cost and labor for making home-made tomato sauce is
vastly greater than buying a decent jar of such sauce we've been buying
lots of different kinds in the hopes of find one we like to doctor. We
saute our own onions, maybe some garlic, italian sausage (which we
didn't make), and recently threw in grilled eggplant. We say "I cooked
dinner" or "I made the spaghetti" I don't know that we'd call it
home-made, though it generaly is. Again, I don't call it anything,
because the issue is irrelevant to me. It's made the way I like,
seasoned the way I like, and satisfying the way I like it.

> Others will make the sauce from scratch.....note that jarred or canned
> tomatoes are preserved foods which IMO count as home cooking. I also
> consider dried pasta as a valid component to home cooking.
>
> At any rate.... there is a line in there somewhere.

It's a different line for everyone, and probably meaningless to everybody else.

On Friday, February 28, 2014 12:29:22 PM UTC-5, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> > The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>
> > However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.

I think that in the case of a resto, 'homemade' means it isn't just a Sysco special to be dipped in boiling water. Implies the on prem cook's own recipe too.

On Friday, February 28, 2014 3:17:15 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:07:49 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>
> >> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
>
> >> Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make
>
> >> the worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made from
>
> >> garden ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient which I
>
> >> omitted when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
>
> >> If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I purchased?
>
> >> etc.
>
> >> Where do you draw the line?
>
> >
>
> >If it's an abstraction, who cares where the abstract borders lie?
>
> >
>
> >I figure if I should or want to take credit for a dish, a sauce, or
>
> >some such, I'll call it home made. If I sprinkle or pour something over
>
> >a purchased pot-pie, or canned/frozen food, I wouldn't call that home
>
> >made. If I made a pie in a store-bought shell, I'd call it home made,
>
> >no matter what the hell was in it.
>
> >
>
> >If I made a made a packaged dinner, like a pilaf mix or falafel I
>
> >wouldn't call it home made, but I would call it home *cooking*.
>
> >Actually I don't think I really use the phrase "home made" it seems to
>
> >have lost its meaning unless it's like a quenelle or something. Or
>
> >perhaps to distinguish it from the obvious alternative: "home made"
>
> >yogurt, or "home made fried chicken.
>
> >
>
> >Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>
> >rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>
>
>
> How come this post is under my post and not the Moose'? Is that a flaw
>
> of my newsreader?
>
>
>
> John Kuthe...

Mine are ending up in wrong places too.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2014-02-28 3:19 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>
>>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>>
>> Probably. I prefer to cook all our food from scratch but that doesn't
>> make it better, just different preferences really.
>>
>
> It probably is much better.... for most decent cooks. Some people consider
> being able to stick something in the oven and heating it up to be home
> cooking. Some people consider throwing a bunch or processed components
> together and cooking it to be home cooking. Some figure that is has to be
> all made from basic ingredients to be cooked.

Well that my preference, but the point I was making is that not everyone is
like me and nothing wrong with that.


> Take lasagne as an example. A lot of people buy them pre made and frozen
> at the grocery store, while others might before the to be from a higher
> quality supplier. Others will assemble them at home, opening up cans of
> pasta sauce and packs of grated cardboard cheese, maybe actually frying
> the meat that goes into the sauce.

I love to make my own pasta, sauce et al but once again ... others will do
what suits them. I am making no judgments.

One thing I don't do any more, and that is make my bread by hand. I did it
for years, then I got a mixer and used that, but now we eat so little (one
small loaf a week), I use a bread maker. I use my own mixture though.

> Others will make the sauce from scratch.....note that jarred or canned
> tomatoes are preserved foods which IMO count as home cooking. I also
> consider dried pasta as a valid component to home cooking.
>
> At any rate.... there is a line in there somewhere.

It wouldn't do for everyone to like the same things. There wouldn't be
enough to go round otherwise iyswim!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:54:16 -0800, gtr > wrote:

>On 2014-02-28 20:17:15 +0000, John Kuthe said:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:07:49 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>>>> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
>
>[...]
>
>>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>>
>> How come this post is under my post and not the Moose'? Is that a flaw
>> of my newsreader?
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>
>Maybe, maybe not. I stripped your response and header since I was
>responding to post you responded to. Different Newsreaders handle this
>differ


Aha!! Then it's YOUR FAULT!! Don't you hate being WRONG??!! ;-)

No worries, I was just confused. I think this type of confusion led to
MY futher confusion on that post not too long ago asking me to
summarize my referred-to post in one sentance or less!! Please include
at least the poster's attribute lione, like this:

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:54:16 -0800, gtr > wrote:


you can delete all the rest, better tet delete it and put

[deleted material] or

....

too! I like the latter. It's quick, uncomplicated and hopefully
maintains understanding amongst all us with different nerws readers.

Thanks,
--
John Kuthe...

"gtr" > wrote in message news:2014022813000142338-xxx@yyyzzz...
>
> A better example might be a pasta dish. If you dump a jar of marinara
> over a pasta you cooked your self, is it "home made"? It's certainly not
> "made from scratch" the phrase Ophelia used--which is a pretty exacting
> phrase.

It is and I once got picked up on it 'Did you grow the wheat yourself'?? I
thought that was a wee bittie over the top, no? I mix and roll the pasta
myself. I make the sauce myself. I call that 'scratch'! BUT if I didn't
enjoy it I wouldn't do it. It is not a religion! If I were ever to get fed
up with it, I would be asking for recommendations on the best ready made to
buy

> Because the time, cost and labor for making home-made tomato sauce is
> vastly greater than buying a decent jar of such sauce we've been buying
> lots of different kinds in the hopes of find one we like to doctor. We
> saute our own onions, maybe some garlic, italian sausage (which we didn't
> make), and recently threw in grilled eggplant. We say "I cooked dinner"
> or "I made the spaghetti" I don't know that we'd call it home-made, though
> it generaly is. Again, I don't call it anything, because the issue is
> irrelevant to me. It's made the way I like, seasoned the way I like, and
> satisfying the way I like it.

And that is just the way it should be) That sounds pretty home made to me!
I promise, just because I like to cook my food my way, I am in no way
putting down the way others do it! That is not a consideration.

> It's a different line for everyone, and probably meaningless to everybody
> else.

If you are happy doing it your way, that is all that matters)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2014-02-28 21:19:10 +0000, John Kuthe said:

> Please include at least the poster's attribute lione, like this:
>
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:54:16 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
>
> you can delete all the rest, better tet delete it and put
>
> [deleted material] or
>
> ...
>
> too! I like the latter. It's quick, uncomplicated and hopefully
> maintains understanding amongst all us with different nerws readers.

No thanks. I delete what I like and leave what I like. I strip people I
hate (which doesn't include you), I strip various rambling tangents and
such all in the interest of what *I* and *I alone* consider clarity.
For digression on "clarity" comare to "home made".

In fact since google-groops so totally screws up back-quoted text I've
prepped a hot key so I don't have to type this when I use it:

[google-groups corrupted previous posts omitted]

As for you, I suggest you too do whatever pleases you most both in this
life and the next.

On 2014-02-28 21:34:42 +0000, Ophelia said:

> "gtr" > wrote in message news:2014022813000142338-xxx@yyyzzz...
>>
>> A better example might be a pasta dish. If you dump a jar of marinara
>> over a pasta you cooked your self, is it "home made"? It's certainly
>> not "made from scratch" the phrase Ophelia used--which is a pretty
>> exacting phrase.
>
> It is and I once got picked up on it 'Did you grow the wheat
> yourself'?? I thought that was a wee bittie over the top, no?

It certainly is.

> I mix and roll the pasta myself. I make the sauce myself. I call that
> 'scratch'! BUT if I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't do it. It is not a
> religion! If I were ever to get fed up with it, I would be asking for
> recommendations on the best ready made to buy
>
>> Because the time, cost and labor for making home-made tomato sauce is
>> vastly greater than buying a decent jar of such sauce we've been buying
>> lots of different kinds in the hopes of find one we like to doctor. We
>> saute our own onions, maybe some garlic, italian sausage (which we
>> didn't make), and recently threw in grilled eggplant. We say "I cooked
>> dinner" or "I made the spaghetti" I don't know that we'd call it
>> home-made, though it generaly is. Again, I don't call it anything,
>> because the issue is irrelevant to me. It's made the way I like,
>> seasoned the way I like, and satisfying the way I like it.
>
> And that is just the way it should be) That sounds pretty home made
> to me! I promise, just because I like to cook my food my way, I am in
> no way putting down the way others do it! That is not a consideration.

Honestly, after hearing a number of people talking about mixing up a
gallon of their home-made sauce and freezing it in quarts or whatever I
seriously considered it. First I went looking for canned tomatoes,
then began calculating costs, the amount of time needed to make it and
suddenly a 2-buck jar of straight-up marinara began to be as easily
selected a convenience as a loaf of French bread.

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:04:06 -0800 (PST), Kalmia
> wrote:

> I think that in the case of a resto, 'homemade' means it isn't just a Sysco special to be dipped in boiling water. Implies the on prem cook's own recipe too.

I haven't seen "home made" used on a menu. Maybe chain restaurants do
that, I dunno... but restaurants around here use the term "house made"
when they are touting something special, like dessert pastries or ice
cream - which are often purchased from a vendor of some sort. House
made implies they made it "in-house".


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:52:06 -0800, gtr > wrote:

> Honestly, after hearing a number of people talking about mixing up a
> gallon of their home-made sauce and freezing it in quarts or whatever I
> seriously considered it. First I went looking for canned tomatoes,
> then began calculating costs, the amount of time needed to make it and
> suddenly a 2-buck jar of straight-up marinara began to be as easily
> selected a convenience as a loaf of French bread.

I know! They're making things taste more and more like home made
these days, so if you're lucky enough to find something you like that
has a list of ingredients you approve of or will be able to "live
with", then I say go for the convenience and expend your effort on the
rest of the meal... or take it easy for once - whatever attitude works
for you at the moment. I think the most nasty and critical among us
probably do the least amount of real cooking and take the most
shortcuts or else they would know when to keep their big fat yaps
shut.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

"gtr" > wrote in message news:2014022813520622625-xxx@yyyzzz...

> Honestly, after hearing a number of people talking about mixing up a
> gallon of their home-made sauce and freezing it in quarts or whatever I
> seriously considered it. First I went looking for canned tomatoes, then
> began calculating costs, the amount of time needed to make it and suddenly
> a 2-buck jar of straight-up marinara began to be as easily selected a
> convenience as a loaf of French bread.

lol I see what you mean. tbh I would never dream of making a gallon of
sauce. I tend to make enough for around 2 meals Heck if I made
everything in such huge portions I would never get to do any cooking
iyswim When I was working I made a lot more food for the freezer, but now
I don't need to and I am loving it.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2014-02-28 4:00 PM, gtr wrote:
..
>
>> Take lasagne as an example. A lot of people buy them pre made and
>> frozen at the grocery store, while others might before the to be from
>> a higher quality supplier. Others will assemble them at home,
>> opening up cans of pasta sauce and packs of grated cardboard cheese,
>> maybe actually frying the meat that goes into the sauce.
>
> A better example might be a pasta dish. If you dump a jar of marinara
> over a pasta you cooked your self, is it "home made"? It's certainly
> not "made from scratch" the phrase Ophelia used--which is a pretty
> exacting phrase.


A better example than lasagna is a pasta dish?
>
> Because the time, cost and labor for making home-made tomato sauce is
> vastly greater than buying a decent jar of such sauce we've been buying
> lots of different kinds in the hopes of find one we like to doctor. We
> saute our own onions, maybe some garlic, italian sausage (which we
> didn't make), and recently threw in grilled eggplant.

Are you talking a store bought tomato sauce or a store bought pasta
sauce? Fresh tomatoes are only available at certain times of the year
and if you have to use the rubberized out of season produce you might
has well do like most Italians do and commercial canned tomatoes or
sauce. IMO, using canned tomatoes and tomato past still counts as home
made scratch cooking.

> We say "I cooked
> dinner" or "I made the spaghetti" I don't know that we'd call it
> home-made, though it generaly is. Again, I don't call it anything,
> because the issue is irrelevant to me. It's made the way I like,
> seasoned the way I like, and satisfying the way I like it.
>
>> Others will make the sauce from scratch.....note that jarred or canned
>> tomatoes are preserved foods which IMO count as home cooking. I also
>> consider dried pasta as a valid component to home cooking.
>>
>> At any rate.... there is a line in there somewhere.
>
> It's a different line for everyone, and probably meaningless to
> everybody else.

Yep. My brother's scratch lasagne uses a jar of pasta sauce. My sauce is
made from canned tomatoes and tomato paste.

On 2/28/2014 3:19 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "gtr" > wrote in message news:2014022812074920171-xxx@yyyzzz...
>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home
>>> Made'.
>>> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider
>>> vinegar.
>>> Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make
>>> the worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made
>>> from garden ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient
>>> which I omitted when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
>>> If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I
>>> purchased?
>>> etc.
>>> Where do you draw the line?
>>
>> If it's an abstraction, who cares where the abstract borders lie?
>>
>> I figure if I should or want to take credit for a dish, a sauce, or
>> some such, I'll call it home made. If I sprinkle or pour something
>> over a purchased pot-pie, or canned/frozen food, I wouldn't call that
>> home made. If I made a pie in a store-bought shell, I'd call it home
>> made, no matter what the hell was in it.
>>
>> If I made a made a packaged dinner, like a pilaf mix or falafel I
>> wouldn't call it home made, but I would call it home *cooking*.
>> Actually I don't think I really use the phrase "home made" it seems to
>> have lost its meaning unless it's like a quenelle or something. Or
>> perhaps to distinguish it from the obvious alternative: "home made"
>> yogurt, or "home made fried chicken.
>>
>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>
> Probably. I prefer to cook all our food from scratch but that doesn't
> make it better, just different preferences really.
>
It's a moot point as to where one makes instead of buys. Make your own
vinegar or soy sauce perhaps, grow your own ginger root or lemons; not
where I live.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On Friday, February 28, 2014 4:19:10 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:54:16 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On 2014-02-28 20:17:15 +0000, John Kuthe said:
>
> >
>
> >> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:07:49 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>
> >>> > wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> >>>> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>
> >>>> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
>
> >
>
> >[...]
>
> >
>
> >>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>
> >>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>
> >>
>
> >> How come this post is under my post and not the Moose'? Is that a flaw
>
> >> of my newsreader?
>
> >>
>
> >> John Kuthe...
>
> >
>
> >Maybe, maybe not. I stripped your response and header since I was
>
> >responding to post you responded to. Different Newsreaders handle this
>
> >differ
>
>
>
>
>
> Aha!! Then it's YOUR FAULT!! Don't you hate being WRONG??!! ;-)
>
>
>
> No worries, I was just confused. I think this type of confusion led to
>
> MY futher confusion on that post not too long ago asking me to
>
> summarize my referred-to post in one sentance or less!! Please include
>
> at least the poster's attribute lione, like this:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:54:16 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> you can delete all the rest, better tet delete it and put
>
>
>
> [deleted material] or
>
>
>
> ...
>
>
>
> too! I like the latter. It's quick, uncomplicated and hopefully
>
> maintains understanding amongst all us with different nerws readers.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
>
> John Kuthe...

Somebody's been drinkin' brew for BREAK-FAST. Johny Buttplug can't fail. Slow "work" day, huh, loser?

"James Silverton" > wrote in message

> It's a moot point as to where one makes instead of buys. Make your own
> vinegar or soy sauce perhaps, grow your own ginger root or lemons; not
> where I live.

Hopefully, we all do what we like doing best. Like I said, It's not a
religion

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2014-02-28 4:15 PM, Ophelia wrote:

>> It probably is much better.... for most decent cooks. Some people
>> consider
>> being able to stick something in the oven and heating it up to be home
>> cooking. Some people consider throwing a bunch or processed components
>> together and cooking it to be home cooking. Some figure that is has to be
>> all made from basic ingredients to be cooked.
>
> Well that my preference, but the point I was making is that not everyone is
> like me and nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with it at all, but if you hear someone talk about a dish
that they have assembled form a bunch of processed items you probably
wonder how they think they can call it home cooking.


>
>
>> Take lasagne as an example. A lot of people buy them pre made and frozen
>> at the grocery store, while others might before the to be from a higher
>> quality supplier. Others will assemble them at home, opening up cans of
>> pasta sauce and packs of grated cardboard cheese, maybe actually frying
>> the meat that goes into the sauce.
>
> I love to make my own pasta, sauce et al but once again ... others will do
> what suits them. I am making no judgments.
>
> One thing I don't do any more, and that is make my bread by hand. I did it
> for years, then I got a mixer and used that, but now we eat so little
> (one small loaf a week), I use a bread maker. I use my own mixture though.

I rarely have more than two slices of bread a day and my wife almost
never eats it, so it just isn't worth it for me to make bread, even in a
bread machine. I have never had good enough bread from a machine to even
bother. I was raised on home made bread. My mother made it at least
once a week. I am all too aware of how good nice fresh bread is. I used
to buy fresh Italian bread from the bakery in town, but after our son
moved out and the bread consumption plummeted I stopped getting that.
Now I buy a loaf of sliced whole grain every week or two from another
local bakery. I usually get the day old stuff because it goes right to
the freezer.


>

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 14:23:01 -0800 (PST), wrote:

>On Friday, February 28, 2014 4:19:10 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:54:16 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 2014-02-28 20:17:15 +0000, John Kuthe said:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:07:49 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>>
>> >>> > wrote:
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>>> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>>
>> >>>> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >[...]
>>
>> >
>>
>> >>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>>
>> >>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> How come this post is under my post and not the Moose'? Is that a flaw
>>
>> >> of my newsreader?
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> John Kuthe...
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Maybe, maybe not. I stripped your response and header since I was
>>
>> >responding to post you responded to. Different Newsreaders handle this
>>
>> >differ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Aha!! Then it's YOUR FAULT!! Don't you hate being WRONG??!! ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> No worries, I was just confused. I think this type of confusion led to
>>
>> MY futher confusion on that post not too long ago asking me to
>>
>> summarize my referred-to post in one sentance or less!! Please include
>>
>> at least the poster's attribute lione, like this:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:54:16 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> you can delete all the rest, better tet delete it and put
>>
>>
>>
>> [deleted material] or
>>
>>
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> too! I like the latter. It's quick, uncomplicated and hopefully
>>
>> maintains understanding amongst all us with different nerws readers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>
>Somebody's been drinkin' brew for BREAK-FAST. Johny Buttplug can't fail. Slow "work" day, huh, loser?

I hit the lottery, dickwad! I never have to work again!

You? Awwwe, SO SORRY!! Hee hee!
GET TO WORK!!

John Kuthe...

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...

> Nothing wrong with it at all, but if you hear someone talk about a dish
> that they have assembled form a bunch of processed items you probably
> wonder how they think they can call it home cooking.

Not really. If it suits them I won't be judging. I can't say it exercises
me much Heck they might not like the way I make our meals

> I rarely have more than two slices of bread a day and my wife almost never
> eats it, so it just isn't worth it for me to make bread, even in a bread
> machine. I have never had good enough bread from a machine to even bother.
> I was raised on home made bread. My mother made it at least once a week. I
> am all too aware of how good nice fresh bread is. I used to buy fresh
> Italian bread from the bakery in town, but after our son moved out and the
> bread consumption plummeted I stopped getting that. Now I buy a loaf of
> sliced whole grain every week or two from another local bakery. I usually
> get the day old stuff because it goes right to the freezer.

We don't eat much bread, but we are pretty fussy about it so I prefer to
make what we like.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2014-02-28 22:04:44 +0000, sf said:

> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:52:06 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
>> Honestly, after hearing a number of people talking about mixing up a
>> gallon of their home-made sauce and freezing it in quarts or whatever I
>> seriously considered it. First I went looking for canned tomatoes,
>> then began calculating costs, the amount of time needed to make it and
>> suddenly a 2-buck jar of straight-up marinara began to be as easily
>> selected a convenience as a loaf of French bread.
>
> I know! They're making things taste more and more like home made
> these days, so if you're lucky enough to find something you like that
> has a list of ingredients you approve of or will be able to "live
> with", then I say go for the convenience and expend your effort on the
> rest of the meal... or take it easy for once - whatever attitude works
> for you at the moment.

Along those lines we've been buying laterally across brands. The wife
really doesn't like those dressing with too much corn-starch or
whatever it is they add to completely muck up the taste.

She read a recipe for a quick spahetti sauce from Mark Bittman, and it
did taste fabulous with little more than a can of marzaon tomatoes and
a few significant fresh herbs. Yeah, it's better than a jar of
marinara, and didn't take as long to make as "from scratch". So that's
a serious alternative we may pursue.

Right now we're eliminating unsatisfactory labels, but it is hard to
keep track of them. I like the Newman sauches but I'm not spending 6-7
bucks on a jar of tomato sauce. $2-3 is really all it takes for a base
to work with.

On 2014-02-28 22:18:50 +0000, Dave Smith said:

> On 2014-02-28 4:00 PM, gtr wrote:
> .
>>
>>> Take lasagne as an example. A lot of people buy them pre made and
>>> frozen at the grocery store, while others might before the to be from
>>> a higher quality supplier. Others will assemble them at home,
>>> opening up cans of pasta sauce and packs of grated cardboard cheese,
>>> maybe actually frying the meat that goes into the sauce.
>>
>> A better example might be a pasta dish. If you dump a jar of marinara
>> over a pasta you cooked your self, is it "home made"? It's certainly
>> not "made from scratch" the phrase Ophelia used--which is a pretty
>> exacting phrase.
>
> A better example than lasagna is a pasta dish?

I started to say spaghetti or linquini but then realized there are lots
of pasta-with-sauce dishes. I don't consider lasagna or raviolit a
simple pasta dish.

>> Because the time, cost and labor for making home-made tomato sauce is
>> vastly greater than buying a decent jar of such sauce we've been buying
>> lots of different kinds in the hopes of find one we like to doctor. We
>> saute our own onions, maybe some garlic, italian sausage (which we
>> didn't make), and recently threw in grilled eggplant.
>
> Are you talking a store bought tomato sauce or a store bought pasta sauce?

I am talking about a store bought tomato-based pasta sauce; marinara,
though I figure jarred versions of vodka sauce, putanesca or alfredo is
the same general thing--but I don't generally use those sauces.

> Fresh tomatoes are only available at certain times of the year and if
> you have to use the rubberized out of season produce you might has well
> do like most Italians do and commercial canned tomatoes or sauce. IMO,
> using canned tomatoes and tomato past still counts as home made scratch
> cooking.

True, as I state elsewhwere.

>> It's a different line for everyone, and probably meaningless to everybody else.
>
> Yep. My brother's scratch lasagne uses a jar of pasta sauce. My sauce
> is made from canned tomatoes and tomato paste.

Assembling and baking lasagna is enough of a project that I would call
it "home cooking" either way.

On 2014-02-28 22:19:33 +0000, James Silverton said:

> On 2/28/2014 3:19 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "gtr" > wrote in message news:2014022812074920171-xxx@yyyzzz...
>>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home
>>>> Made'.
>>>> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider
>>>> vinegar.
>>>> Is it truly home made? If it were truly home made then I would make
>>>> the worcestershire sauce myself, as well as the ketchup, all made
>>>> from garden ingredients. Also I put in some hot sauce(an ingredient
>>>> which I omitted when I posted the recipe)which is also bottled.
>>>> If I add mustard, should I make mustard from mustard seed which I
>>>> purchased?
>>>> etc.
>>>> Where do you draw the line?
>>>
>>> If it's an abstraction, who cares where the abstract borders lie?
>>>
>>> I figure if I should or want to take credit for a dish, a sauce, or
>>> some such, I'll call it home made. If I sprinkle or pour something
>>> over a purchased pot-pie, or canned/frozen food, I wouldn't call that
>>> home made. If I made a pie in a store-bought shell, I'd call it home
>>> made, no matter what the hell was in it.
>>>
>>> If I made a made a packaged dinner, like a pilaf mix or falafel I
>>> wouldn't call it home made, but I would call it home *cooking*.
>>> Actually I don't think I really use the phrase "home made" it seems to
>>> have lost its meaning unless it's like a quenelle or something. Or
>>> perhaps to distinguish it from the obvious alternative: "home made"
>>> yogurt, or "home made fried chicken.
>>>
>>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>>
>> Probably. I prefer to cook all our food from scratch but that doesn't
>> make it better, just different preferences really.
>>
> It's a moot point as to where one makes instead of buys. Make your own
> vinegar or soy sauce perhaps, grow your own ginger root or lemons; not
> where I live.

I can walk outside any day of the year and grab fresh rosemary, thyme
or lemons. It's pretty convenient.

On 2014-02-28 22:24:43 +0000, Ophelia said:

> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
>
>> It's a moot point as to where one makes instead of buys. Make your own
>> vinegar or soy sauce perhaps, grow your own ginger root or lemons; not
>> where I live.
>
> Hopefully, we all do what we like doing best. Like I said, It's not
> a religion

Today's my beloved's last day at the job. So hopefully she can now do
what she likes best more often!

Yesterday that had an office potluck but instead of 20-30 people, they
had more like 80 that showed up from other agencies, board members, old
clients and so forth. Everybody got up and testified on her behalf. It
was pretty damned touching. I was really proud of her and glad that
damned near anybody she's every worked with or for--and even more the
one-time students and interns, now lawyers and directors, found felt so
obliged to tell her their feelings.

When she comes home tonight I'm going to welcome her home permanent
like. Then take her out to a hot-diggety meal.

I digress...

On 2014-02-28 21:55:25 +0000, sf said:

> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:04:06 -0800 (PST), Kalmia
> > wrote:
>
>> I think that in the case of a resto, 'homemade' means it isn't just a
>> Sysco special to be dipped in boiling water. Implies the on prem
>> cook's own recipe too.
>
> I haven't seen "home made" used on a menu. Maybe chain restaurants do
> that, I dunno... but restaurants around here use the term "house made"
> when they are touting something special, like dessert pastries or ice
> cream - which are often purchased from a vendor of some sort. House
> made implies they made it "in-house".

Good point. I do see "home made" in places that what to make it sound
more "homey". I've always snorted at it, but hadn't previously thought
it was a counter to a Sysco object. I'm not sure how many places I
actually go to that are Sysco type joints. We rarely go to chains of
any kind whatever: They're just so many mom-and-pop or regional
operations that only have 2 or 3 restaurants. It is, of course, always
assumed that everything they make is "house made".

"gtr" > wrote in message news:2014022815194697950-xxx@yyyzzz...

> Today's my beloved's last day at the job. So hopefully she can now do
> what she likes best more often!

Wonderful) I know you have been looking forward to today)


> Yesterday that had an office potluck but instead of 20-30 people, they had
> more like 80 that showed up from other agencies, board members, old
> clients and so forth. Everybody got up and testified on her behalf. It
> was pretty damned touching. I was really proud of her and glad that damned
> near anybody she's every worked with or for--and even more the one-time
> students and interns, now lawyers and directors, found felt so obliged to
> tell her their feelings.

You have every reason to be proud of her ... and ... she is all yours now)

> When she comes home tonight I'm going to welcome her home permanent like.
> Then take her out to a hot-diggety meal.
>
> I digress...

Enjoy I had very mixed feelings when I retired, but I wouldn't go back
now)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:08:00 -0800, gtr > wrote:

> Right now we're eliminating unsatisfactory labels, but it is hard to
> keep track of them. I like the Newman sauches but I'm not spending 6-7
> bucks on a jar of tomato sauce. $2-3 is really all it takes for a base
> to work with.

Agree. I tried a Paul Newman product at least once and didn't like
it, so I look at other brands.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:40:29 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 14:23:01 -0800 (PST), wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Friday, February 28, 2014 4:19:10 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
>
> >> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:54:16 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> >On 2014-02-28 20:17:15 +0000, John Kuthe said:
>
> >>
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> >> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:07:49 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> >>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:51:17 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>
> >>
>
> >> >>> > wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >> >>>> The other day, I posted a super simple recipe for steak sauce. 'Home Made'.
>
> >>
>
> >> >>>> However, I used bottled wurster sauce, bottled ketchup and cider vinegar.
>
> >>
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> >[...]
>
> >>
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> >>> Actually I think finely mincing such terms is kind of a semantic game,
>
> >>
>
> >> >>> rather than a cooking thing. Doesn't everybody?
>
> >>
>
> >> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> >> How come this post is under my post and not the Moose'? Is that a flaw
>
> >>
>
> >> >> of my newsreader?
>
> >>
>
> >> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> >> John Kuthe...
>
> >>
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> >Maybe, maybe not. I stripped your response and header since I was
>
> >>
>
> >> >responding to post you responded to. Different Newsreaders handle this
>
> >>
>
> >> >differ
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Aha!! Then it's YOUR FAULT!! Don't you hate being WRONG??!! ;-)
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> No worries, I was just confused. I think this type of confusion led to
>
> >>
>
> >> MY futher confusion on that post not too long ago asking me to
>
> >>
>
> >> summarize my referred-to post in one sentance or less!! Please include
>
> >>
>
> >> at least the poster's attribute lione, like this:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:54:16 -0800, gtr > wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> you can delete all the rest, better tet delete it and put
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> [deleted material] or
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> ...
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> too! I like the latter. It's quick, uncomplicated and hopefully
>
> >>
>
> >> maintains understanding amongst all us with different nerws readers.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Thanks,
>
> >>
>
> >> --
>
> >>
>
> >> John Kuthe...
>
> >
>
> >Somebody's been drinkin' brew for BREAK-FAST. Johny Buttplug can't fail. Slow "work" day, huh, loser?
>
>
>
> I hit the lottery, dickwad! I never have to work again!
>
>
>
> You? Awwwe, SO SORRY!! Hee hee!
>
> GET TO WORK!!
>
>
>
> John Kuthe...

No, you didn't. You got fired again, didn't you buttplug?