"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 6/14/2014 9:35 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>
>
>
>>
>> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or
>> you didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick
>> shift is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love
>> automatics.
>>
>> Cheri
>
> Some have a "hill holder" that keeps the brake on when you put the clutch
> in. Very handy on a steep incline.

Yes, that would be handy. None of the stick shift cars I owned had that
feature.

Cheri

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:27:57 -0500, Sky >
wrote:

>On 6/14/2014 8:12 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:55:23 -0400, jmcquown >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/12/2014 4:24 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2014 2:08 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> They'd ban stick shifts, too, if that was the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not nearly the same thing... once learned driving stick is like riding
>>>>> a bicycle or swimming, requires no more consious thought than
>>>>> breathing... takes more consious thought to urinate than drive stick.
>>>>> You obviously don't drive stick.
>>>>
>>>> SIGH.
>>>>
>>>> I can drive a stick better than an automatic. I never did
>>>> get used to an automatic, and it's no fun to drive.
>>>>
>>> I dislike automatic transmissions. When my car was in the shop a few
>>> years back after some old lady hit it in the Walgreen's parking lot, the
>>> rental car was an automatic. It took me a couple of days to get used to
>>> it. I was glad to get my car back.
>>
>> Automatics are for steerers, not drivers.
>>
>> Nobody apart from those with a disability should be able to get a
>> licence unless you pass the test in a car with a manual box.
>
>And, change a flat tire, too! Er, barring any physical challenges . . .

Yes, good point.

On 6/13/2014 9:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> My wife kept telling me how much she liked the heated seats in her
> friend's car. I didn't see much use for them but when I got a CRV last
> year it came with them. I have to say that I like them. It occasionally
> gets down around 0F here in winter and it is nice to start up the car
> and flip on the seats and get some almost instant heat. They get a
> little too warm after awhile so I turn them off.
>
>
My parent's Buick had heated seats. It doesn't get all that cold here
but skinny old people tend to get chilly, don'tcha know. At least
they can be individually controlled. Mom had me take over the driving
to-from doctor's appointments, etc. She used the heater in the
passenger seat. I turned mine on briefly, then shut it off again.

Jill

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:35:59 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>"Jeßus" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:55:23 -0400, jmcquown >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 6/12/2014 4:24 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2014 2:08 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> They'd ban stick shifts, too, if that was the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not nearly the same thing... once learned driving stick is like riding
>>>>> a bicycle or swimming, requires no more consious thought than
>>>>> breathing... takes more consious thought to urinate than drive stick.
>>>>> You obviously don't drive stick.
>>>>
>>>> SIGH.
>>>>
>>>> I can drive a stick better than an automatic. I never did
>>>> get used to an automatic, and it's no fun to drive.
>>>>
>>>I dislike automatic transmissions. When my car was in the shop a few
>>>years back after some old lady hit it in the Walgreen's parking lot, the
>>>rental car was an automatic. It took me a couple of days to get used to
>>>it. I was glad to get my car back.
>>
>> Automatics are for steerers, not drivers.
>>
>> Nobody apart from those with a disability should be able to get a
>> licence unless you pass the test in a car with a manual box.
>
> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or you
>didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick shift
>is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love automatics.

Autos have their place of course. If I lived in a city with heavy
traffic, I'd have one myself. The main reason for my opinion
learning/passing a test is that autos don't really teach you to feel
what's going on with the car like a manual gearbox does.

Learning in a manual or 'stick' (autos also have a 'stick' but
anyway...) will make you a better and safer driver, rather than merely
learning to point the car and press the pedal with an auto.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 22:03:18 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 6/14/2014 9:35 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>
>> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or
>> you didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick
>> shift is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love automatics.
>
>Some have a "hill holder" that keeps the brake on when you put the
>clutch in. Very handy on a steep incline.

My Subaru Forester has that and it's not an auto.
Not exactly helpful to somebody learning to drive though.

On 6/12/2014 4:50 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> My wife likes standard transmissions but I would not say that she is
> good with them. She would rev the engine and let the clutch out slower.
> Whenever I heard that I could picture the friction plates wearing. She
> had to replace the clutch in every standard transmission car she ever
> had. I have never had to replace a clutch in any of my cars, trucks or
> motorcycles.

I recently had to have the clutch replaced in my car. Apparently I'm
pretty good with a clutch since that's the only *major* mechanical
problem the car has had in 12 years.

Jill

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 21:59:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 6/14/2014 9:12 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>> Automatics are for steerers, not drivers.
>>
>> Nobody apart from those with a disability should be able to get a
>> licence unless you pass the test in a car with a manual box.
>
>Why? Really, aside from getting a rental in other countries there is no
>practical reason to learn to drive stick shift. Let's go one better,
>before driving a stick shift, you must learn to hitch a team of horses
>and drive a carriage.

You ask me why - and then follow up with a clearly stupid analogy.
So you're not really asking why, nor are you interested in listening
as to why.

>You will be disappointed to learn that many high performance cars are
>now automatics with paddle shifters.

I 'learned' that long ago, and I'm not disappointed, because what you
call 'high performance cars are not high performance cars.

>I've owned quite a few cars with stick shift.
>can shift both up and down without using the clutch. I even know the
>shift pattern on a Borgward. So what? I can drive any place in North
>America and never have to shift.

You're steering, not driving.

>Yeah, its fun once in a while but I don't want manual on my daily driver
>and I fail to see how most people wold be a better driver just because
>they can use a clutch.

If you truly believe that, I suspect you're a very ordinary driver.
Sorry. Steerer.

>Full disclosu I've never saddled a horse.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 22:12:52 -0400, James Silverton
> wrote:

>On 6/14/2014 8:55 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 6/12/2014 4:24 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2014 2:08 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>>
>>>>> They'd ban stick shifts, too, if that was the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Not nearly the same thing... once learned driving stick is like riding
>>>> a bicycle or swimming, requires no more consious thought than
>>>> breathing... takes more consious thought to urinate than drive stick.
>>>> You obviously don't drive stick.
>>>
>>> SIGH.
>>>
>>> I can drive a stick better than an automatic. I never did
>>> get used to an automatic, and it's no fun to drive.
>>>
>>> nancy
>>
>> I dislike automatic transmissions. When my car was in the shop a few
>> years back after some old lady hit it in the Walgreen's parking lot, the
>> rental car was an automatic. It took me a couple of days to get used to
>> it. I was glad to get my car back.
>
>I wonder if the stick waggers have ever had to commute in a crowded
>city? I've driven with a stick in Frankfurt, Zurich and Paris and you
>can keep it!

Yeah, it's such a trauma, isn't it...

"Jeßus" > wrote in message
...

> Autos have their place of course. If I lived in a city with heavy
> traffic, I'd have one myself. The main reason for my opinion
> learning/passing a test is that autos don't really teach you to feel
> what's going on with the car like a manual gearbox does.
>
> Learning in a manual or 'stick' (autos also have a 'stick' but
> anyway...) will make you a better and safer driver, rather than merely
> learning to point the car and press the pedal with an auto.

One of the good things about learning on a stick is that you can get in and
drive away in any car if the need arises. It has come in handy at times.

Cheri

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 22:48:25 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 6/12/2014 4:50 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> My wife likes standard transmissions but I would not say that she is
>> good with them. She would rev the engine and let the clutch out slower.
>> Whenever I heard that I could picture the friction plates wearing. She
>> had to replace the clutch in every standard transmission car she ever
>> had. I have never had to replace a clutch in any of my cars, trucks or
>> motorcycles.
>
>I recently had to have the clutch replaced in my car. Apparently I'm
>pretty good with a clutch since that's the only *major* mechanical
>problem the car has had in 12 years.

It wouldn't have lasted that long unless you were good at using the
clutch... or didn't drive much

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:57:43 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>
>"Jeßus" > wrote in message
.. .
>
>> Autos have their place of course. If I lived in a city with heavy
>> traffic, I'd have one myself. The main reason for my opinion
>> learning/passing a test is that autos don't really teach you to feel
>> what's going on with the car like a manual gearbox does.
>>
>> Learning in a manual or 'stick' (autos also have a 'stick' but
>> anyway...) will make you a better and safer driver, rather than merely
>> learning to point the car and press the pedal with an auto.
>
>One of the good things about learning on a stick is that you can get in and
>drive away in any car if the need arises. It has come in handy at times.

Yes, especially in an emergency.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Bryan-TGWWW wrote:
>>
>> YOUR FELLOW MOTORISTS DO NOT CARE
>> HOW YOUR KID IS DOING IN GRADE SCHOOL
>
> Back when my daughter was in elementary school, she always got good
> grades and every time a report card came out, she also got one of
> those bumper stickers that said,
> "I'm The Proud Parent Of An Honor Roll Student."
>
> Remember those? Well I was always proud of her but those stickers
> wanted to make me gag and I saw them on so many cars.
>
> This is what I did.... I took a single-edge razor blade and cut one or
> two of those stickers apart. I made a smaller rectangular bumper
> sticker that said, "I'm The Parent" This is what I put on my back
> bumper and it stayed there for years. It was still on there when I
> finally sold the van (to a junk yard for $50) many years later. heheh

Those are all over the place here.

"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or you
> didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick shift
> is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love automatics.

I never learned to drive one. When I took Driver's Ed, for some reason, we
didn't have one. We had a simulator that was supposed to be a stick, but
mine was totally broken. They showed you a film. You were supposed to
start and stop the car when they told you to and react to whatever was on
the screen. I think it also told you to do things like turn corners or
change lanes. But since mine wasn't recording anything, it was all very
useless. My friend and I got passed because the teacher didn't observe us
doing anything wrong.

Then when I was older, my friend told me that I would have to drive her bug.
I can't remember her strange reasoning now but she had used fake ID to buy
beer. I think perhaps her ID wasn't a driver's license. Can't remember. I
do remember limping the thing across the parking lot of the 7-11. I
couldn't make it go more than a foot before it would die.

Not long after that, she parked it on the street and a drunk driver hit it
and some other cars. Hit them very badly. She found pieces of it all over
in people's yards for about a block. The main part of it and the other cars
got towed away because there was so little left of them.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 6/14/2014 9:12 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>
>> Automatics are for steerers, not drivers.
>>
>> Nobody apart from those with a disability should be able to get a
>> licence unless you pass the test in a car with a manual box.
>>
>
> Why? Really, aside from getting a rental in other countries there is no
> practical reason to learn to drive stick shift. Let's go one better,
> before driving a stick shift, you must learn to hitch a team of horses and
> drive a carriage.
>
> You will be disappointed to learn that many high performance cars are now
> automatics with paddle shifters.
>
> I've owned quite a few cars with stick shift. I can double clutch, I can
> shift both up and down without using the clutch. I even know the shift
> pattern on a Borgward. So what? I can drive any place in North America
> and never have to shift.
>
> Yeah, its fun once in a while but I don't want manual on my daily driver
> and I fail to see how most people wold be a better driver just because
> they can use a clutch.
>
> Full disclosu I've never saddled a horse.

I have been looking at cars for sale for the past several years here. Not
too many stick shifts for sale. And you can't get one in a rental either.
All rentals are automatic.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 21:25:55 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
>> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or you
>> didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick shift
>> is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love automatics.
>
>I never learned to drive one. When I took Driver's Ed, for some reason, we
>didn't have one. We had a simulator that was supposed to be a stick, but
>mine was totally broken. They showed you a film. You were supposed to
>start and stop the car when they told you to and react to whatever was on
>the screen. I think it also told you to do things like turn corners or
>change lanes. But since mine wasn't recording anything, it was all very
>useless. My friend and I got passed because the teacher didn't observe us
>doing anything wrong.

Passed, as in issuing you a drivers licence?
If so, I find that very hard to believe, even though I'm not familiar
with how things work 'over there' in regards to driver training and
licensing.

>Then when I was older, my friend told me that I would have to drive her bug.
>I can't remember her strange reasoning now but she had used fake ID to buy
>beer. I think perhaps her ID wasn't a driver's license. Can't remember. I
>do remember limping the thing across the parking lot of the 7-11. I
>couldn't make it go more than a foot before it would die.
>
>Not long after that, she parked it on the street and a drunk driver hit it
>and some other cars. Hit them very badly. She found pieces of it all over
>in people's yards for about a block.

ROTFL. How could a collision between two cars possibly spread debris
over an entire block? Especially in a built up area.

>The main part of it and the other cars
>got towed away because there was so little left of them.

And presumably all buildings and people in the area, going on the
inexplicable amount of energy released during this collision, as well.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:27:57 -0500, Sky >
wrote:

> On 6/14/2014 8:12 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> > On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:55:23 -0400, jmcquown >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/12/2014 4:24 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
> >>> On 6/12/2014 2:08 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>>> Nancy Young wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> They'd ban stick shifts, too, if that was the problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not nearly the same thing... once learned driving stick is like riding
> >>>> a bicycle or swimming, requires no more consious thought than
> >>>> breathing... takes more consious thought to urinate than drive stick.
> >>>> You obviously don't drive stick.
> >>>
> >>> SIGH.
> >>>
> >>> I can drive a stick better than an automatic. I never did
> >>> get used to an automatic, and it's no fun to drive.
> >>>
> >> I dislike automatic transmissions. When my car was in the shop a few
> >> years back after some old lady hit it in the Walgreen's parking lot, the
> >> rental car was an automatic. It took me a couple of days to get used to
> >> it. I was glad to get my car back.
> >
> > Automatics are for steerers, not drivers.
> >
> > Nobody apart from those with a disability should be able to get a
> > licence unless you pass the test in a car with a manual box.
>
> And, change a flat tire, too! Er, barring any physical challenges . . .
>
And be able to put chains on in 5 minutes or less.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On 6/14/2014 3:27 PM, Sky wrote:
> On 6/14/2014 8:12 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:55:23 -0400, jmcquown >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/12/2014 4:24 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2014 2:08 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> They'd ban stick shifts, too, if that was the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not nearly the same thing... once learned driving stick is like riding
>>>>> a bicycle or swimming, requires no more consious thought than
>>>>> breathing... takes more consious thought to urinate than drive stick.
>>>>> You obviously don't drive stick.
>>>>
>>>> SIGH.
>>>>
>>>> I can drive a stick better than an automatic. I never did
>>>> get used to an automatic, and it's no fun to drive.
>>>>
>>> I dislike automatic transmissions. When my car was in the shop a few
>>> years back after some old lady hit it in the Walgreen's parking lot, the
>>> rental car was an automatic. It took me a couple of days to get used to
>>> it. I was glad to get my car back.
>>
>> Automatics are for steerers, not drivers.
>>
>> Nobody apart from those with a disability should be able to get a
>> licence unless you pass the test in a car with a manual box.
>
> And, change a flat tire, too! Er, barring any physical challenges . . .
>
> Sky
>
>

I don't think that people not experienced with changing tires should
change tire along the side of the road. They should instead call a tow
truck or have a pro do it. Changing tires on the highway is way too
dangerous.

On 6/14/2014 4:03 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/14/2014 9:35 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>
>
>
>>
>> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or
>> you didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick
>> shift is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love
>> automatics.
>>
>> Cheri
>
> Some have a "hill holder" that keeps the brake on when you put the
> clutch in. Very handy on a steep incline.

My Subaru used to have one of those. I'm probably one of the few people
that know how to adjust those things. When set up correctly, it's pretty
slick but who the heck knows how to do that?

On 6/14/2014 10:51 PM, Jeßus wrote:

>>
>> I wonder if the stick waggers have ever had to commute in a crowded
>> city? I've driven with a stick in Frankfurt, Zurich and Paris and you
>> can keep it!
>
> Yeah, it's such a trauma, isn't it...
>

PITA if you use the Cross Bronx Xway or parts of Boston, or a dozen
other cities every day. I prefer to let technology do the work for me.
Do you still use a wood fired oven and stove or have you advanced to coal?

Oh, I have power windows too.

On 6/14/2014 10:22 PM, Jeßus wrote:

>>
>> And, change a flat tire, too! Er, barring any physical challenges . . .
>
> Yes, good point.
>

My last few cars came with free roadside assistance. Can't remember the
last time I changed a tire, over 25 years now. Came out one morning and
had a flat. I drank a cup of tea while watching the service guy take
the wheel off. That was back in 2001 and the car was only a couple of
month old.

Maybe new drivers should have to be able to set the choke too and set
the gap on points?

On 6/14/2014 10:31 PM, Jeßus wrote:

>
> Learning in a manual or 'stick' (autos also have a 'stick' but
> anyway...)

Except for the ones that don't.

On 6/14/2014 10:48 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 6/12/2014 4:50 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> My wife likes standard transmissions but I would not say that she is
>> good with them. She would rev the engine and let the clutch out slower.
>> Whenever I heard that I could picture the friction plates wearing. She
>> had to replace the clutch in every standard transmission car she ever
>> had. I have never had to replace a clutch in any of my cars, trucks or
>> motorcycles.
>
> I recently had to have the clutch replaced in my car. Apparently I'm
> pretty good with a clutch since that's the only *major* mechanical
> problem the car has had in 12 years.
>
> Jill

Curious what it cost. This same auto/manual discussion came up in
another group and a dealer tech said some cars can be up to $2000 for a
clutch replacement.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:02:51 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>I don't think that people not experienced with changing tires should
>change tire along the side of the road. They should instead call a tow
>truck or have a pro do it. Changing tires on the highway is way too
>dangerous.

You must have both lots of money and these 'pros' every couple of
miles of highway to make that viable. Plus a cell phone to call the
'pro'... plus cell phone coverage.

Is there some reason licensed drivers can't apply common sense? If
they're too dense to safely change a tyre, should they be let loose on
public roads to begin with? It's just a tyre. It's not hard to teach
safe practices.

On 6/14/2014 10:50 PM, Jeßus wrote:

>
>> You will be disappointed to learn that many high performance cars are
>> now automatics with paddle shifters.
>
> I 'learned' that long ago, and I'm not disappointed, because what you
> call 'high performance cars are not high performance cars.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...nsmission.html

>
>> I've owned quite a few cars with stick shift.
>> can shift both up and down without using the clutch. I even know the
>> shift pattern on a Borgward. So what? I can drive any place in North
>> America and never have to shift.
>
> You're steering, not driving.

Do you still use DOS commands? If not, you are just typing, not
computing.



>
> If you truly believe that, I suspect you're a very ordinary driver.
> Sorry. Steerer.

If you live anywhere near CT, I'm up to any challenge you can devise.
Pick a road.

Using you left leg to drive does not make you a better driver.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:35:59 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or you
> didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick shift
> is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love automatics.

Agree. An automatic transmission is my friend. Stick shifts are easy
when there is no challenge. If you need to stop at a light or park on
an steep incline, it all becomes different. Unless you're totally in
love with a manual transmission and want to work with it, it is your
enemy under certain conditions. My husband loves it, I don't. I
won't put any effort into dealing with it under adverse circumstances.
If I'm not the first car on the incline (thinking about the block
going up Gough St between Jackson & Washington and hitting the stop
light). I'll make a U turn and go back down the hill. If anyone
thinks coming to a full stop until the light turns green and
proceeding or parallel parking on an incline like that is easy, then
they can do it for me.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:15:25 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 6/14/2014 9:35 PM, Cheri wrote:
> >>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or
> >> you didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick
> >> shift is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love
> >> automatics.
> >>
> >> Cheri
> >
> > Some have a "hill holder" that keeps the brake on when you put the clutch
> > in. Very handy on a steep incline.
>
> Yes, that would be handy. None of the stick shift cars I owned had that
> feature.
>
Same here.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On 6/14/2014 8:27 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>
> You must have both lots of money and these 'pros' every couple of
> miles of highway to make that viable. Plus a cell phone to call the
> 'pro'... plus cell phone coverage.
>
> Is there some reason licensed drivers can't apply common sense? If
> they're too dense to safely change a tyre, should they be let loose on
> public roads to begin with? It's just a tyre. It's not hard to teach
> safe practices.
>

Lots of drivers are too stupid to do a roadside change. Even smart
drivers don't have any control over the road surfaces that they have to
set the jack on. I've taken tires off lots of times and unless the
jacking surface is pretty much perfect, being able to reliably support
the car at one point with those flimsy jacks that come with the car is a
shaky proposition.

The last time my daughter was stuck with a busted tire, it was on an
incline and I pretty sure that only a fool would have tried to change
the tire under that condition. As it goes, I don't want any member of my
family to change a tire unless they have a lot of experience doing it.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 22:48:25 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 6/12/2014 4:50 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > My wife likes standard transmissions but I would not say that she is
> > good with them. She would rev the engine and let the clutch out slower.
> > Whenever I heard that I could picture the friction plates wearing. She
> > had to replace the clutch in every standard transmission car she ever
> > had. I have never had to replace a clutch in any of my cars, trucks or
> > motorcycles.
>
> I recently had to have the clutch replaced in my car. Apparently I'm
> pretty good with a clutch since that's the only *major* mechanical
> problem the car has had in 12 years.
>
You live in flatland, Jill. That's not hard to do.


--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On 6/15/2014 1:11 AM, Jeßus wrote:

>>
>> Not long after that, she parked it on the street and a drunk driver hit it
>> and some other cars. Hit them very badly. She found pieces of it all over
>> in people's yards for about a block.
>
> ROTFL. How could a collision between two cars possibly spread debris
> over an entire block? Especially in a built up area.

She said it was more than two cars.

It was a VW bug. If you sideswipe it you can pull it apart and drag
parts for a long distance.
Snag the bumper and it could be in 4 or 5 parts as it is dragged. It had
the main bumper, two upright supports two horizontal on the top of the
assembly.

What would built up area have to do with anything?

On 6/15/2014 12:27 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>


> I have been looking at cars for sale for the past several years here.
> Not too many stick shifts for sale. And you can't get one in a rental
> either. All rentals are automatic.

Many are not offered with manual any more. Demand has dwindled and EPA
ratings can often be better with an automatic. They are generally more
efficient,

On Saturday, June 14, 2014 6:35:59 PM UTC-7, Cheri wrote:
> "Je�us" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:55:23 -0400, jmcquown >
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>On 6/12/2014 4:24 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> >>> On 6/12/2014 2:08 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> >>>> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> >>>>> They'd ban stick shifts, too, if that was the problem.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Not nearly the same thing... once learned driving stick is like riding
>
> >>>> a bicycle or swimming, requires no more consious thought than
>
> >>>> breathing... takes more consious thought to urinate than drive stick..
>
> >>>> You obviously don't drive stick.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> SIGH.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> I can drive a stick better than an automatic. I never did
>
> >>> get used to an automatic, and it's no fun to drive.
>
> >>>
>
> >>I dislike automatic transmissions. When my car was in the shop a few
>
> >>years back after some old lady hit it in the Walgreen's parking lot, the
>
> >>rental car was an automatic. It took me a couple of days to get used to
>
> >>it. I was glad to get my car back.
>
> >
>
> > Automatics are for steerers, not drivers.
>
> >
>
> > Nobody apart from those with a disability should be able to get a
>
> > licence unless you pass the test in a car with a manual box.
>
>
>
> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or you
>
> didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick shift
>
> is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love automatics.
>
>
>
> Cheri

Cheri, I couldn't tell from your post if you live in San Francisco now. I am from San Francisco and have always driven a stick until my last car, which is a Prius and only comes in automatic. I loved to drive a stick and miss it. Those hills are nothing to me actually fun especially when you have tourists in your car.

I didn't take my driving test using a stick shift, but a huge Ford station wagon and we had to parallel park up the hill and down the hill. Yikes, that was tough! We couldn't forget to curb our wheels. You can get a ticket for not curbing your wheels (used to be anyway); I still do it even when parking on the flat.

Nellie

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:09:40 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>On 6/14/2014 4:03 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 6/14/2014 9:35 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I did pass the test with a stick, and you also had to parallel park or
>>> you didn't pass. To this day, I'm a great parallel parker, but the stick
>>> shift is a nightmare in hilly places like San Francisco. I love
>>> automatics.
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>
>> Some have a "hill holder" that keeps the brake on when you put the
>> clutch in. Very handy on a steep incline.
>
>My Subaru used to have one of those. I'm probably one of the few people
>that know how to adjust those things. When set up correctly, it's pretty
>slick but who the heck knows how to do that?

My Forester also had it (manual gearbox). All you have to do is
release the clutch as you normally would and away you go.

On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 02:12:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 6/14/2014 10:51 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I wonder if the stick waggers have ever had to commute in a crowded
>>> city? I've driven with a stick in Frankfurt, Zurich and Paris and you
>>> can keep it!
>>
>> Yeah, it's such a trauma, isn't it...
>>
>
>PITA if you use the Cross Bronx Xway or parts of Boston, or a dozen
>other cities every day. I prefer to let technology do the work for me.
>Do you still use a wood fired oven and stove or have you advanced to coal?

No, wood fired. I don't use coal.

>Oh, I have power windows too.

So does my Subaru.

On 6/15/2014 2:23 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/14/2014 10:48 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> I recently had to have the clutch replaced in my car. Apparently I'm
>> pretty good with a clutch since that's the only *major* mechanical
>> problem the car has had in 12 years.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Curious what it cost. This same auto/manual discussion came up in
> another group and a dealer tech said some cars can be up to $2000 for a
> clutch replacement.

My car isn't that fancy. I keep the maintenance records in the glove
compartment. Let's see:

Removing and replacing the master cylinder and the slave cylinder,
bleeding the hydraulic system, adding brake fluid. Total: $325.40.

Jill

On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 02:37:30 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 6/14/2014 10:50 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>>> You will be disappointed to learn that many high performance cars are
>>> now automatics with paddle shifters.
>>
>> I 'learned' that long ago, and I'm not disappointed, because what you
>> call 'high performance cars are not high performance cars.
>
>http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...nsmission.html
>
>>
>>> I've owned quite a few cars with stick shift.
>>> can shift both up and down without using the clutch. I even know the
>>> shift pattern on a Borgward. So what? I can drive any place in North
>>> America and never have to shift.
>>
>> You're steering, not driving.
>
>Do you still use DOS commands? If not, you are just typing, not
>computing.

Yeah, I do. I also use a GUI of course.
These stupid analogies of yours are revealing.

>> If you truly believe that, I suspect you're a very ordinary driver.
>> Sorry. Steerer.
>
>If you live anywhere near CT, I'm up to any challenge you can devise.
>Pick a road.

LOL. I'm in Tasmania, Australia.
Look up 'Targa Tasmania' and get back to me.
Then we'll take it from there.

>Using you left leg to drive does not make you a better driver.

You haven't a clue, or are being intentionally obtuse, not that I
disagree with that pointless statement. I love how on the defensive
you are over a ****y gearbox, LOL.

On 6/15/2014 2:47 AM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 22:48:25 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/12/2014 4:50 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> My wife likes standard transmissions but I would not say that she is
>>> good with them. She would rev the engine and let the clutch out slower.
>>> Whenever I heard that I could picture the friction plates wearing. She
>>> had to replace the clutch in every standard transmission car she ever
>>> had. I have never had to replace a clutch in any of my cars, trucks or
>>> motorcycles.
>>
>> I recently had to have the clutch replaced in my car. Apparently I'm
>> pretty good with a clutch since that's the only *major* mechanical
>> problem the car has had in 12 years.
>>
> You live in flatland, Jill. That's not hard to do.
>
>
Not everyone lives in San Francisco. I've driven that car across
several states, more than once. Lots of stop and go driving, too. I
know how to handle a clutch without burning it out quickly.

Jill

On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 02:18:33 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 6/14/2014 10:22 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>
>>>
>>> And, change a flat tire, too! Er, barring any physical challenges . . .
>>
>> Yes, good point.
>>
>
>My last few cars came with free roadside assistance. Can't remember the
>last time I changed a tire, over 25 years now. Came out one morning and
>had a flat. I drank a cup of tea while watching the service guy take
>the wheel off. That was back in 2001 and the car was only a couple of
>month old.
>
>Maybe new drivers should have to be able to set the choke too and set
>the gap on points?

Points went out well over 20 years ago <shakes head>.
'Set the choke'. LOL.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 20:45:41 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>On 6/14/2014 8:27 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>>
>> You must have both lots of money and these 'pros' every couple of
>> miles of highway to make that viable. Plus a cell phone to call the
>> 'pro'... plus cell phone coverage.
>>
>> Is there some reason licensed drivers can't apply common sense? If
>> they're too dense to safely change a tyre, should they be let loose on
>> public roads to begin with? It's just a tyre. It's not hard to teach
>> safe practices.
>>
>
>Lots of drivers are too stupid to do a roadside change. Even smart
>drivers don't have any control over the road surfaces that they have to
>set the jack on. I've taken tires off lots of times and unless the
>jacking surface is pretty much perfect, being able to reliably support
>the car at one point with those flimsy jacks that come with the car is a
>shaky proposition.

I'm getting the impression from this thread that things are very
different between our countries, on this topic at least. We have
drivers here who can't change a tyre and would call for help, but
they're in an extreme minority and confined to the cities. This whole
discussion simply wouldn't happen here.

>The last time my daughter was stuck with a busted tire, it was on an
>incline and I pretty sure that only a fool would have tried to change
>the tire under that condition. As it goes, I don't want any member of my
>family to change a tire unless they have a lot of experience doing it.

Okay. But you do know you can still drive on a flat tyre until you can
find a safe place to change it? I've done that many times.

On 6/14/2014 9:35 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 6/15/2014 2:23 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 6/14/2014 10:48 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>> I recently had to have the clutch replaced in my car. Apparently I'm
>>> pretty good with a clutch since that's the only *major* mechanical
>>> problem the car has had in 12 years.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> Curious what it cost. This same auto/manual discussion came up in
>> another group and a dealer tech said some cars can be up to $2000 for a
>> clutch replacement.
>
> My car isn't that fancy. I keep the maintenance records in the glove
> compartment. Let's see:
>
> Removing and replacing the master cylinder and the slave cylinder,
> bleeding the hydraulic system, adding brake fluid. Total: $325.40.
>
> Jill

The cost of the work seems pretty reasonable although they didn't
replace the clutch. To do that on most cars, the transmission would have
to be removed from the car. The clutch, pressure plate, and a bearing
are typically replaced. I suppose that it could cost thousands of bucks.
I've replaced clutches on my car but have never had to mess around with
automatic transmissions. I never paid much cause I did the work myself
but the reality is that automatics are less troublesome and cheaper to
upkeep. Well, that's my experience anyway.

On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 02:50:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 6/15/2014 1:11 AM, Jeßus wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Not long after that, she parked it on the street and a drunk driver hit it
>>> and some other cars. Hit them very badly. She found pieces of it all over
>>> in people's yards for about a block.
>>
>> ROTFL. How could a collision between two cars possibly spread debris
>> over an entire block? Especially in a built up area.
>
>She said it was more than two cars.

She also said "She found pieces of it all over in people's yards for
about a block"

>It was a VW bug. If you sideswipe it you can pull it apart and drag
>parts for a long distance.

She also said "She found pieces of it all over in people's yards for
about a block"

>Snag the bumper and it could be in 4 or 5 parts as it is dragged. It had
>the main bumper, two upright supports two horizontal on the top of the
>assembly.
>
> What would built up area have to do with anything?

She also said "She found pieces of it all over in people's yards for
about a block"

Are you catching on yet?