I'm researching buying a 8" or 10" carbon steel skillet. I notice all
the cooking show chefs are currently using them. I've got a 12"
Griswold, but it's jes too damn heavy for me, anymore.

Looking online, I see the pricey French CSSs costing $50-$80. Not
that bad, as I can afford that much. My issue is the weight. Some of
these suckers are 3mm (0.120") and weigh quite a bit. The Lodge ($34)
is 12gauge (0.100") and should be a bit lighter, though some folks
complain about warpage. Seems a logical trade-off, though.

I jes wondered if any rfc'ers has given these pans a try and had anything
good to say about them or is it jes a passing fad.

nb

On 6/29/2014 6:59 PM, notbob wrote:
> I'm researching buying a 8" or 10" carbon steel skillet. I notice all
> the cooking show chefs are currently using them. I've got a 12"
> Griswold, but it's jes too damn heavy for me, anymore.
>
> Looking online, I see the pricey French CSSs costing $50-$80. Not
> that bad, as I can afford that much. My issue is the weight. Some of
> these suckers are 3mm (0.120") and weigh quite a bit. The Lodge ($34)
> is 12gauge (0.100") and should be a bit lighter, though some folks
> complain about warpage. Seems a logical trade-off, though.
>
> I jes wondered if any rfc'ers has given these pans a try and had anything
> good to say about them or is it jes a passing fad.
>
> nb
>

What's wrong with an 8" cast-iron skillet? It's not too heavy (for me),
and I just can't imagine any guy not able to handle that weight. I
don't think I've ever seen CSS skillets before. I've seen SS (stainless
steel) skillets all over the place, and have an 8" SS skillet to make
omelets. Just curious, do you have a link for a CSS skillet that
interests you?

Sky

On 2014-06-30, Sky > wrote:

> What's wrong with an 8" cast-iron skillet?

I don't have an 8" cast iron skillet, I have 12" CI skillet. I still
use it, jes not as much as I usta.

> I think I've ever seen CSS skillets before.

They are all the rage on cooking shows. Mind of a Chef, Bourdain's
other show, Parts Unknown, other PBS cooking shows, etc. They've been
around forever, but you rarely saw any of them other than CS crêpe
pans. Now, they appear to be the new cast iron. Lighter, can take
higher heat, good for sauteing, when properly seasoned are practically
non-stick. etc. Basically, like a well seasoned wok.

> Just curious, do you have a link for a CSS skillet that
> interests you?

<http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-CRS10-Pre-Seasoned-Skillet-10-inch/dp/B005U93RYC/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1404101352&sr=1-1&keywords=carbon+steel+skillet>

.....or....

http://tinyurl.com/kbznt49

Really, I have all the skillets I need. I need an 8" chefs knife
worse than another skillet, but jes thought I'd bring up a new
subject.

nb

On 29 Jun 2014 23:59:07 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> I'm researching buying a 8" or 10" carbon steel skillet. I notice all
> the cooking show chefs are currently using them.

I'd like to see a few cites that don't include cooking show
competitions. That said, most restaurants use them - so go to a
restaurant supply store and buy one. They are not expensive.

> I've got a 12"
> Griswold, but it's jes too damn heavy for me, anymore.

Name dropping because you can't bear say "cast iron pan"?
>
> Looking online, I see the pricey French CSSs costing $50-$80. Not
> that bad, as I can afford that much. My issue is the weight. Some of
> these suckers are 3mm (0.120") and weigh quite a bit. The Lodge ($34)
> is 12gauge (0.100") and should be a bit lighter, though some folks
> complain about warpage. Seems a logical trade-off, though.
>
> I jes wondered if any rfc'ers has given these pans a try and had anything
> good to say about them or is it jes a passing fad.

They aren't a fad, they are a restaurant tool. What people brag about
using, by name here, is a fad. I say pfffft to Lodge and Griswold.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Monday, June 30, 2014 10:30:15 AM UTC-7, notbob wrote:

check out a restauant supply store. They have all sizes there.

On Monday, June 30, 2014 10:33:16 AM UTC-7, ImStillMags wrote:
> On Monday, June 30, 2014 10:30:15 AM UTC-7, notbob wrote:
>
>
>
> check out a restauant supply store. They have all sizes there.

or.....

https://www.google.com/#q=restaurant...+pans&tbm=shop

On 2014-06-30, jmcquown > wrote:

> So use a spatula and turn things. Why do you feel you need to toss food
> in the air and back into the pan? Pancakes? Turn them, don't flip them.

Some things are jes better flipped. Like a pan full of mirepoix
that's too full to use a spatula in. Or two/three eggs. I'm not
showing off. Really. I learned to flip a pan 45 yrs ago and it's jes
so much quicker/easier. But, I DO turn pancakes.

nb

On Monday, June 30, 2014 11:25:52 AM UTC-7, sf wrote:

>
> > So use a spatula and turn things. Why do you feel you need to toss food
>
> > in the air and back into the pan? Pancakes? Turn them, don't flip them.
>
> >
>
> Ditto. It's ridiculous macho money wasting bravado.


Well, sorry you feel that way. For those of who have been in the restaurant business, it's a way of life. It's quick, easy and very effective. Has nothing to do with bravado.



>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On 2014-06-30, ImStillMags > wrote:

>> check out a restauant supply store. They have all sizes there.

> https://www.google.com/#q=restaurant...+pans&tbm=shop

The pans and prices are all over the place. I've seen a French 11"
Matfer Bourgeat go from $28 ($12shpg) to $80 (free shpg). I was
looking for more in the way of pros/cons, yay/nay, kinda info.

nb

"ImStillMags" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, June 30, 2014 11:25:52 AM UTC-7, sf wrote:
>
>>
>> > So use a spatula and turn things. Why do you feel you need to toss
>> > food
>>
>> > in the air and back into the pan? Pancakes? Turn them, don't flip
>> > them.
>>
>> >
>>
>> Ditto. It's ridiculous macho money wasting bravado.
>
>
> Well, sorry you feel that way. For those of who have been in the
> restaurant business, it's a way of life. It's quick, easy and very
> effective. Has nothing to do with bravado.
>

no kidding. Always interesting to hear the opinions of others with
different skill sets, though.

On 6/30/2014 1:53 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
>
> Well, sorry you feel that way. For those of who have been in the restaurant business, it's a way of life. It's quick, easy and very effective. Has nothing to do with bravado.


Yep. I learned to do this during a stint as a short order cook. But
for the average, every-day home cook, it isn't a skill that you really need.

I still get a kick out of flipping eggs, though.

George L

On Monday, June 30, 2014 3:17:33 PM UTC-4, George L wrote:
>
> Yep. I learned to do this during a stint as a short order cook. But
> for the average, every-day home cook, it isn't a skill that you really need.
>
> I still get a kick out of flipping eggs, though.
>
> George L

Flipping food is not a difficult skill to learn.
However, cracking an egg using one hand is (for me).
Both skills are very useful.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 6/30/2014 3:17 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 6/30/2014 1:53 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
>>
>> Well, sorry you feel that way. For those of who have been in the
>> restaurant business, it's a way of life. It's quick, easy and very
>> effective. Has nothing to do with bravado.
>
>
> Yep. I learned to do this during a stint as a short order cook. But
> for the average, every-day home cook, it isn't a skill that you really
> need.
>
> I still get a kick out of flipping eggs, though.
>
> George L

If you are cooking commercially, you need to save time. It is possible
to flip a pan in a couple of seconds, done while you are still looking
where you put the spatula down. If you are cooking a few different pans
you may cross contaminate too.

Its a tool. Most home cooks don't need to know how, but if yhou can, it
simplified some cooking.

On 2014-07-01, Mark Thorson > wrote:


> High carbon steels are much more prone to rust.

Could you repeat that. My wok didn't hear you.

nb

On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:53:21 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:

> On Monday, June 30, 2014 11:25:52 AM UTC-7, sf wrote:
>
> >
> > > So use a spatula and turn things. Why do you feel you need to toss food
> >
> > > in the air and back into the pan? Pancakes? Turn them, don't flip them.
> >
> > >
> >
> > Ditto. It's ridiculous macho money wasting bravado.
>
>
> Well, sorry you feel that way. For those of who have been in the restaurant business, it's a way of life. It's quick, easy and very effective. Has nothing to do with bravado.
>
I understand it from a working restaurant POV, but I don't from
notbob's. He's cooking for one and he can flip the hash with a
spatula.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:53:21 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> > wrote:
>
>> On Monday, June 30, 2014 11:25:52 AM UTC-7, sf wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > > So use a spatula and turn things. Why do you feel you need to toss
>> > > food
>> >
>> > > in the air and back into the pan? Pancakes? Turn them, don't flip
>> > > them.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > Ditto. It's ridiculous macho money wasting bravado.
>>
>>
>> Well, sorry you feel that way. For those of who have been in the
>> restaurant business, it's a way of life. It's quick, easy and very
>> effective. Has nothing to do with bravado.
>>
> I understand it from a working restaurant POV, but I don't from
> notbob's. He's cooking for one and he can flip the hash with a
> spatula.

he's cooking for one so he can do it the way he damn well pleases. Jeez.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 16:47:25 -0700, "Pico Rico"
> wrote:

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:53:21 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On Monday, June 30, 2014 11:25:52 AM UTC-7, sf wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > So use a spatula and turn things. Why do you feel you need to toss
> >> > > food
> >> >
> >> > > in the air and back into the pan? Pancakes? Turn them, don't flip
> >> > > them.
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Ditto. It's ridiculous macho money wasting bravado.
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, sorry you feel that way. For those of who have been in the
> >> restaurant business, it's a way of life. It's quick, easy and very
> >> effective. Has nothing to do with bravado.
> >>
> > I understand it from a working restaurant POV, but I don't from
> > notbob's. He's cooking for one and he can flip the hash with a
> > spatula.
>
> he's cooking for one so he can do it the way he damn well pleases. Jeez.
>
Then buy a frickin pan and get it over with.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

notbob wrote:
>
> pans. Now, they appear to be the new cast iron. Lighter, can take
> higher heat, good for sauteing, when properly seasoned are practically
> non-stick. etc. Basically, like a well seasoned wok.

Higher heat than cast iron? I've never
seen any heat problem with cast iron,
and I've thrown as much heat as I can
at mine.

Low carbon steels like cast iron are
resistant to rust. Not like stainless,
of course, but they don't rust easily.
High carbon steels are much more prone
to rust.

notbob wrote:
>
> Now, they appear to be the new cast iron. Lighter, can take
> higher heat, good for sauteing, when properly seasoned are practically
> non-stick. etc. Basically, like a well seasoned wok.

- Steel melts at about 100 deg. F lower temperature than iron.

- It does well when used at very high heat, like a wok, but it does not
hold as much residual heat, so it doesn't stabilize as well for cooking
at lower temperatures.

- And carbon steel pans *always* have hot spots; cast iron generally
doesn't.

-- Larry

On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 20:06:21 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:

> - And carbon steel pans *always* have hot spots; cast iron generally
> doesn't.

Which is another reason why the food is always in the air.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 10:06:21 AM UTC+10, pltrgyst wrote:
> notbob wrote:
> >
> > Now, they appear to be the new cast iron. Lighter, can take
> > higher heat, good for sauteing, when properly seasoned are practically
> > non-stick. etc. Basically, like a well seasoned wok.
>
> - Steel melts at about 100 deg. F lower temperature than iron.

The higher the carbon content, the lower the melting point. Cast iron having higher carbon content than steel, melts at even lower temperatures.

But melting is not the problem. Warping due to uneven thermal expansion is the problem.

> - It does well when used at very high heat, like a wok, but it does not
> hold as much residual heat, so it doesn't stabilize as well for cooking
> at lower temperatures.
>
> - And carbon steel pans *always* have hot spots; cast iron generally
> doesn't.

Both result from carbon steel pans generally being thinner than cast iron. Because mild steel (which is what is usually used for carbon steel pans) has about the same thermal conductivity as cast iron, and the same thermal expansion coefficient, it all depends on the thickness.

If you don't like hot spots, get thicker carbon steel pans. Of course, then you're not saving (as much) weight, compared to cast iron, as you would with thinner carbon steel, but you don't get "light" and "even heating" together with either carbon steel or cast iron.

On 2014-07-01, pltrgyst > wrote:

> - And carbon steel pans *always* have hot spots;

I'm counting on it.

nb

On Monday, June 30, 2014 11:14:20 PM UTC-4, Timo wrote:
>
> If you don't like hot spots, get thicker carbon steel pans. Of course, then you're not saving (as much) weight, compared to cast iron, as you would with thinner carbon steel, but you don't get "light" and "even heating" together with either carbon steel or cast iron.

But you do from hard anodized aluminum.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 1 Jul 2014 19:05:24 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> sf jes likes to interject some $$$$/status factors into the fray.

Yes, I think that's exactly what you are doing.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 10:17:42 PM UTC+10, Helpful person wrote:
> On Monday, June 30, 2014 11:14:20 PM UTC-4, Timo wrote:
> >
> > If you don't like hot spots, get thicker carbon steel pans. Of course, then you're not saving (as much) weight, compared to cast iron, as you would with thinner carbon steel, but you don't get "light" and "even heating" together with either carbon steel or cast iron.
>
> But you do from hard anodized aluminum.

Thermally, aluminium wins. Cast iron and low carbon steel are so-so, stainless steel sucks.

One of my in-laws very helpfully put big gouges in two aluminium cooking surfaces (one pan, and one bbq plate) by using a spoon to remove crud. Removed the crud, and significant amount of the aluminium. He never managed that with cast iron or stainless.

Carbon steel pans. Fascinating. It seems, from the discussion, that they have advantages and disadvantages. Maybe they're like a cross between a wok and cast iron.

Does anyone remember carbon steel knives? I used to buy them because they could be sharpened with a steel, unlike stainless steel.

As for eggs, I think the pan flipping method makes them rather greasy. I prefer to have them on a more lightly buttered flat surface which, unfortunately, is hard to produce in a normal kitchen, so I only have them if I'm out for breakfast.

I remember years ago, when I was in the biz, as they say, watching Italian sous chefs flipping chicken cacciatore etc. in the pan. That is much easier to do on the old cast iron gas stoves with a marvelous flat surface of heat than in a standard domestic kitchen.

On 7/1/2014 2:40 PM, Terrence Crimmins wrote:
> Carbon steel pans. Fascinating. It seems, from the discussion, that they have advantages and disadvantages. Maybe they're like a cross between a wok and cast iron.
>
> Does anyone remember carbon steel knives? I used to buy them because they could be sharpened with a steel, unlike stainless steel.
>
> As for eggs, I think the pan flipping method makes them rather greasy. I prefer to have them on a more lightly buttered flat surface which, unfortunately, is hard to produce in a normal kitchen, so I only have them if I'm out for breakfast.
>

I'll flip eggs and other things mostly because I'm too lazy to dig a
spatula out of the drawer or sometimes when there's no proper spatula
available. I think that you're right about greasy eggs. I like to use a
lot of oil when frying eggs. I've become fearless in this regard. It's
very liberating.

> I remember years ago, when I was in the biz, as they say, watching Italian sous chefs flipping chicken cacciatore etc. in the pan. That is much easier to do on the old cast iron gas stoves with a marvelous flat surface of heat than in a standard domestic kitchen.
>

With the new glass tops, you have to lift the pan off the surface to
flip. That's a drag. Let me tell you, I miss the sound of the bottom of
the pan scraping the burner element. It was a very satisfying sound.

On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 10:40:56 AM UTC+10, Terrence Crimmins wrote:
> Carbon steel pans. Fascinating. It seems, from the discussion, that they have advantages and disadvantages.

Like every other kind of pan out there. If one type had all advantages and no disadvantages, there's be one type of pan out there. But there are many, because of those advantages and disadvantages.

> Maybe they're like a cross between a wok and cast iron.

Cooking mainly in cast iron woks when I cook in in woks, I'd call a cast iron wok a cross between a wok and cast iron.

A carbon steel pan is like a thin (or very thin) cast iron pan. Except tougher.

> Does anyone remember carbon steel knives? I used to buy them because they could be sharpened with a steel, unlike stainless steel.

A majority of my knives are carbon steel (about 2/3). But almost all of my Western knives are stainless. There are still carbon steel Western knives being made (Ontario's Old Hickory come to mind), but most are stainless. More common to see carbon steel traditional style Chinese and Japanese knives.

It isn't a matter of steeling, since you can steel (some) stainless knives with no problems, and there are plenty of carbon steel knives you can't steel (e.g, hard-bladed Japanese knives).

It's like pans: there are both advantages and disadvantages, so we see many different types of steel used for knives.

"Terrence Crimmins" > wrote in message
...
> Carbon steel pans. Fascinating. It seems, from the discussion, that they
> have advantages and disadvantages. Maybe they're like a cross between a
> wok and cast iron.
>
> Does anyone remember carbon steel knives? I used to buy them because they
> could be sharpened with a steel, unlike stainless steel.

Yes I have some. Mine do sharpen more easily than the stainless.

> As for eggs, I think the pan flipping method makes them rather greasy. I
> prefer to have them on a more lightly buttered flat surface which,
> unfortunately, is hard to produce in a normal kitchen, so I only have them
> if I'm out for breakfast.


I put a little butter into a small frying pan, break the egg/s into it and
cover with a lid. When the tops look cooked I slide them out.



> I remember years ago, when I was in the biz, as they say, watching Italian
> sous chefs flipping chicken cacciatore etc. in the pan. That is much
> easier to do on the old cast iron gas stoves with a marvelous flat surface
> of heat than in a standard domestic kitchen.
>

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Well lacking a degree in metallurgy I am forced to ask what is the difference between high carbon and cast iron? If we are speaking of cast iron skillets go to Academy Sports and get the big wooden box with every kind of cast iron cooking implement yet invented. Forty bucks last I bought one and you can keep it in the box or sit on the box etc. It's made by Christian Slave Laborers in China. Cast iron is cast iron. It dont require any unioinized workers to make it. All the stuff works great.

I'm a flipper out of convenience, too. Use good oil and don't fear it, the dang omelet just flops perfectly. No bravado, at all.

I have some Chinese and Thai carbon steel knives and love the ease in sharpening. I have a few stainless, though, that are really a bit similar in (stone) sharpening time. I love Kiwi knives for this reason.

I'm happy with my caste iron.

Timo,

What kind of stainless steel knives can be sharpened with steel?

Terrence

On Monday, July 7, 2014 12:56:39 PM UTC+10, Terrence Crimmins wrote:
> Timo,
>
> What kind of stainless steel knives can be sharpened with steel?

You can steel most of them, with a typical steel. Wusthof, Global, Henckels, etc., and most cheap brands. The exceptions being very hard-bladed knives (like some Japanese knives), though you can still steel them with glass/ceramic steels. What matters is hardness and brittleness, not stainless vs carbon steel.

That's for a traditional steel, which doesn't remove any metal from the knife. The ceramic/diamond abrasive "steels" will work on stainless too. For them, it's hardness and wear resistance, not stainless vs carbon steel.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/wssteeling.shtml