On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 18:23:50 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Jeßus > wrote in
>news >
>>>Yes, and remember, those same ones are the educators
>>
>> Nice generalisation there. My ex-g/f kids were home schooled,
>> the youngest one came 4th in the state in his final year and
>> if his age wasn't an issue, he would have begun his physics
>> PhD at age 16. Her other two kids have gone into stage
>> lighting/audio.
>>
>> Through them I know other home schooled kids and none of their
>> families are religious, let alone being 'nutters'.
>
>Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the paper it's printed on (to
>paraphrase Sam Goldwyn). In other words (to save you time) the
>fact that you know some people who aren't nutters (that you know
>of)

They're not nutters, they're in Australia. Their motivations have
nothing to do with religion. You seem to have those types where you
are, and we do too, but here it is extremely uncommon.

>does not provide a valid sample to determine whether or not a
>majority of home schoolers are nutters or not. And you can't
>assume they aren't from the existence of a few.

That cuts both ways.

On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 18:25:07 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Jeßus > wrote in
:
>
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Moncton_shootings
>>>
>>>"Bourque was born as one of seven children in a religious
>>>family and was home-schooled"
>>
>> Case closed then. Of course, you ignore all the success
>> stories and look for something that fits your preconceptions.
>> I'll bet I could find more similar shootings from kids that
>> weren't home schooled.
>
>You're onlyy gainsaying and not providing a valid counterargument.

Should I really bother to put the effort in? Every time I have done so
on RFC, the discussion stops and no further replies were forthcoming.

"graham" > wrote in message
...
> On 06/07/2014 6:48 AM, wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 08:27:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/6/2014 3:02 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> A lot of the dance kids go the home schooling route because it gives
>>>> them more time to concentrate on dance and they can do the school work
>>>> when it is convenient for them. These are very bright kids, very good
>>>> students, often advanced students, and you certainly have to be able to
>>>> get along well with others or you won't make it in the dance world. Or
>>>> at least you won't make it very far or do very well.
>>>
>>> Where do these kinds end up in life? What if they don't make it in the
>>> "dance world" and have to get by in life elsewhere? Do they have the
>>> skills to do that?
>>
>> You're being too realistic. I notice that home schooled kids
>> generally lack social skills because they have never had to mess in
>> with others and leave mommy's side. All part of this helicopter
>> parenting.
>>
> I understand that most home-schooling is done by religious nutters. But
> then it's more brainwashing than education.
> Graham

That's not the case any more. Too many people in this area are just fed up
with the way the schools are being run and the hideous waste of students
time. The schools are trying to factor in too many fun things at the
expense of education. Or at least that is how it feels. The kids I am
talking about did not do the home schooling until Jr. High or High school.
And they did it because the school was interfering with with extracurricular
activities.

One big issue here is gym. Some schools will give a waiver for dance. Our
schools in this district would not and they are big into running. Our dance
studio owner hates running because it builds up the wrong muscles for dance.
Yes, they do actually run in dance but not long distances like the school
was forcing them to do, day after day. Too many kids getting stress
fractures in their feet or knee injuries or plantar fasciitis from the
running. And one of the teachers at Angela's school did not allow the kids
to rest when injured. Even though I took in several Drs. notes, including
one from her physical therapist, she forced her to run with the plantar
fasciitis and the stress fracture in her back. And yes, I did take this up
with the school. She was spoken to but still took it out on the student.
Thankfully she quit after that year but she still subs.

"sf" > wrote in message
news
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 08:27:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 7/6/2014 3:02 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> >
>>
>> >
>> > A lot of the dance kids go the home schooling route because it gives
>> > them more time to concentrate on dance and they can do the school work
>> > when it is convenient for them. These are very bright kids, very good
>> > students, often advanced students, and you certainly have to be able to
>> > get along well with others or you won't make it in the dance world. Or
>> > at least you won't make it very far or do very well.
>>
>> Where do these kinds end up in life? What if they don't make it in the
>> "dance world" and have to get by in life elsewhere? Do they have the
>> skills to do that?
>
> Most kids are home schooled for one of two reasons (given no
> extenuating physical or mental circumstances). Either they don't fit
> in for whatever reason (personality/behavior) or their parents are
> "sheltering" them from what they consider the liberalism of current
> eduthink.

I used to say that was the case. I don't say that now. I do worry about
one girl. She came to our house seeking assistance from abuse. The sheriff
was called but they didn't act promptly and the mom wound up here,
threatening me. The abuse wasn't from the mom although given her demeanor,
I had to wonder. I won't get into that story here because I only know what
the girl told me. But following that incident, she was pulled from school
and home schooled.

And after having read books about abused children, I now believe that
sometimes the home schooling is done so that the outside world won't see the
abuse./

Some simply do not learn well in school. I worked with one girl, the year
that I was the writing assistant. I didn't see a problem there and she got
along well with the other kids but her mom felt she was learning better at
home.

One of Angela's friends does home schooling so that she is available to
babysit her younger brothers and sisters. She has a very big, blended
family.

But most of the ones I know of are doing it do that they can take more dance
classes and in some cases, assist with the younger classes during the day.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/6/2014 3:36 AM, sf wrote:
>>
>> BTDT and got through it, just like everyone else did without the
>> entitled "my talents are being wasted" attitude.
>>
>
> Been there done that too. You might consider it to be a badge of honor. I
> thought it was a waste of time.

I go for the waste of time thing too. I know that some people love school.
I love to learn. I don't love school though.

Jeßus > wrote in
:

>>Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the paper it's printed on (to
>>paraphrase Sam Goldwyn). In other words (to save you time)
>>the fact that you know some people who aren't nutters (that
>>you know of)
>
> They're not nutters, they're in Australia. Their motivations
> have nothing to do with religion. You seem to have those types
> where you are, and we do too, but here it is extremely
> uncommon.

Again you are using anecdotal evidence to completely invalidate a
legitimate argument. That's not the way to do it. You need to
provide solid (verfiable) evidence (not hearsay or opinion) that
the bulk (that means more than 50%) of people who do home schooling
are not religious or ideological nutters.

--

Socialism never took root in America because the
poor there see themselves not as an exploited
proletariat but as temporarily embarassed
millionaires. - John Steinbeck

Jeßus > wrote in
:

>>You're onlyy gainsaying and not providing a valid
>>counterargument.
>
> Should I really bother to put the effort in? Every time I have
> done so on RFC, the discussion stops and no further replies
> were forthcoming.

Well, I will take note, should you provide substantial evidence
that supports your point of view (see my previous post).

--

Socialism never took root in America because the
poor there see themselves not as an exploited
proletariat but as temporarily embarassed
millionaires. - John Steinbeck

Michel Boucher wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Je_us > wrote in
> news >
> > > Yes, and remember, those same ones are the educators
> >
> > Nice generalisation there. My ex-g/f kids were home schooled,
> > the youngest one came 4th in the state in his final year and
> > if his age wasn't an issue, he would have begun his physics
> > PhD at age 16. Her other two kids have gone into stage
> > lighting/audio.
> >
> > Through them I know other home schooled kids and none of their
> > families are religious, let alone being 'nutters'.
>
> Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the paper it's printed on (to
> paraphrase Sam Goldwyn). In other words (to save you time) the
> fact that you know some people who aren't nutters (that you know
> of) does not provide a valid sample to determine whether or not a
> majority of home schoolers are nutters or not. And you can't
> assume they aren't from the existence of a few.

Military people often have to home school these years. They do not
transfer in even portions with the kids. If you move the kids at the
wrong time now, they automatically fail a year regardless of grades.

When we moved back from Japan, Virgina wanted to automatically make
Charlotte repeat 8th grade until we could prove she'd passed it because
the dates there were different. She'd already graduated 8th grade when
we got here 2 weeks before VA ended the 8th grade.

Believe me, there are lots of other reasons.

--

"Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
...
> Jeßus > wrote in
> news >
>>>Yes, and remember, those same ones are the educators
>>
>> Nice generalisation there. My ex-g/f kids were home schooled,
>> the youngest one came 4th in the state in his final year and
>> if his age wasn't an issue, he would have begun his physics
>> PhD at age 16. Her other two kids have gone into stage
>> lighting/audio.
>>
>> Through them I know other home schooled kids and none of their
>> families are religious, let alone being 'nutters'.
>
> Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the paper it's printed on (to
> paraphrase Sam Goldwyn). In other words (to save you time) the
> fact that you know some people who aren't nutters (that you know
> of) does not provide a valid sample to determine whether or not a
> majority of home schoolers are nutters or not. And you can't
> assume they aren't from the existence of a few.

There are probably a lot of nutters who home school. There are also
religious schools. Those people may or may not be nutters. I won't make
the call there.

On Sun, 6 Jul 2014 16:06:07 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:
snip
>What I really found to be a waste of time there was that the teacher was
>sooo very out of touch. She had never worked in the business world and had
>only been a teacher. Her perceptions of what the business world was really
>like were just wrong, wrong, wrong. The students all knew this because we
>were all out there working!

So you had a resistance to anyone telling you anything as far back as
high school and presumably even before that.
Janet US

On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 18:57:52 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Jeßus > wrote in
:
>
>>>Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the paper it's printed on (to
>>>paraphrase Sam Goldwyn). In other words (to save you time)
>>>the fact that you know some people who aren't nutters (that
>>>you know of)
>>
>> They're not nutters, they're in Australia. Their motivations
>> have nothing to do with religion. You seem to have those types
>> where you are, and we do too, but here it is extremely
>> uncommon.
>
>Again you are using anecdotal evidence to completely invalidate a
>legitimate argument. That's not the way to do it. You need to
>provide solid (verfiable) evidence (not hearsay or opinion) that
>the bulk (that means more than 50%) of people who do home schooling
>are not religious or ideological nutters.

Do I now? LOL...

On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 19:24:05 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:

>Michel Boucher wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> Je_us > wrote in
>> news >>
>> > > Yes, and remember, those same ones are the educators
>> >
>> > Nice generalisation there. My ex-g/f kids were home schooled,
>> > the youngest one came 4th in the state in his final year and
>> > if his age wasn't an issue, he would have begun his physics
>> > PhD at age 16. Her other two kids have gone into stage
>> > lighting/audio.
>> >
>> > Through them I know other home schooled kids and none of their
>> > families are religious, let alone being 'nutters'.
>>
>> Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the paper it's printed on (to
>> paraphrase Sam Goldwyn). In other words (to save you time) the
>> fact that you know some people who aren't nutters (that you know
>> of) does not provide a valid sample to determine whether or not a
>> majority of home schoolers are nutters or not. And you can't
>> assume they aren't from the existence of a few.
>
>Military people often have to home school these years. They do not
>transfer in even portions with the kids. If you move the kids at the
>wrong time now, they automatically fail a year regardless of grades.
>
>When we moved back from Japan, Virgina wanted to automatically make
>Charlotte repeat 8th grade until we could prove she'd passed it because
>the dates there were different. She'd already graduated 8th grade when
>we got here 2 weeks before VA ended the 8th grade.

We moved around Australia a lot when I was young, and because of the
variation between the number of years of primary and high schooling
between the states, I somehow managed to skip 2nd year of high school.
I apparently never missed anything important, because I passed 3rd
year without any problems and only just turned 16 y/o when I completed
high school.

>Believe me, there are lots of other reasons.

Yep, such as our School of the Air in Australia, which is essentially
home schooling. There's plenty of good reasons for home schooling.

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2014 16:06:07 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
> snip
>>What I really found to be a waste of time there was that the teacher was
>>sooo very out of touch. She had never worked in the business world and
>>had
>>only been a teacher. Her perceptions of what the business world was
>>really
>>like were just wrong, wrong, wrong. The students all knew this because we
>>were all out there working!
>
> So you had a resistance to anyone telling you anything as far back as
> high school and presumably even before that.
> Janet US

Always. But this was college. Some people like to be told what to do.
Some don't. I'm all for rules when there was a reason. I grew up in a
house with far too many arbitrary rules. I had no choice but to abide by
them or be punished.

This continues even now. I missed out on most of the big move because I was
having to buy a new car on that day. But... There had been no furniture in
the apartment and the one in charge of the move had forbidden everyone from
bringing their own chair, even a folding chair in there. So if anyone
needed to sit and rest before the goods arrived, they had to sit on the
toilet or the floor.

This is the sort of thing that I mean. Would not have harmed anyone in any
way for them to have brought in a small chair or stool that they would take
with them when they left. They could even have taken the chair out into the
hall to sit on it. But no. It was deemed so and anyone who violated this
rule would not be welcome.

When you grow up in an environment like this, you tend to not want to just
blindly follow things just because someone tells you to do them.

On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 20:37:57 -0300, wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 08:08:25 +1000, Jeßus > wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 10:39:02 -0300, wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 07:30:52 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 06/07/2014 6:48 AM, wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 08:27:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/6/2014 3:02 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A lot of the dance kids go the home schooling route because it gives
>>>>>>> them more time to concentrate on dance and they can do the school work
>>>>>>> when it is convenient for them. These are very bright kids, very good
>>>>>>> students, often advanced students, and you certainly have to be able to
>>>>>>> get along well with others or you won't make it in the dance world. Or
>>>>>>> at least you won't make it very far or do very well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where do these kinds end up in life? What if they don't make it in the
>>>>>> "dance world" and have to get by in life elsewhere? Do they have the
>>>>>> skills to do that?
>>>>>
>>>>> You're being too realistic. I notice that home schooled kids
>>>>> generally lack social skills because they have never had to mess in
>>>>> with others and leave mommy's side. All part of this helicopter
>>>>> parenting.
>>>>>
>>>>I understand that most home-schooling is done by religious nutters. But
>>>>then it's more brainwashing than education.
>>>>Graham
>>>
>>>Yes, and remember, those same ones are the educators
>>
>>Nice generalisation there. My ex-g/f kids were home schooled, the
>>youngest one came 4th in the state in his final year and if his age
>>wasn't an issue, he would have begun his physics PhD at age 16. Her
>>other two kids have gone into stage lighting/audio.
>>
>>Through them I know other home schooled kids and none of their
>>families are religious, let alone being 'nutters'.
>
>Well maybe it is different in Tasmania to NA. I've only known a few
>home-schooled kids and religion was the reason, plain and simple.

Yeah, it's a pity anything outside of the mainstream seems to get
poisoned with extremism over in the U.S. It's impossible to have a
reasoned debate on so many issues. The media doesnt help things,
either.

True that. We're split between two extremes, here. Most media in the US supports one side or the other side. Much propaganda has resulted from both wings of the media political spectrum. People are cemented into their positions. It speaks to our social immaturity in that we don't compromise well.

I work as a counselor in a rural public school in Wisconsin. Love it. I've noticed the two extremes of home schooling. The great parent who wants their kid to ;learn more; and the loser who essentially drops our in favor of a diet of chips and grape soda. The one thing I've learned is that it's next to impossible to protect kids from psycho parents. Religious folks are the least of the problem.

On Sun, 6 Jul 2014 18:49:22 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 6 Jul 2014 16:06:07 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>> snip
>>>What I really found to be a waste of time there was that the teacher was
>>>sooo very out of touch. She had never worked in the business world and
>>>had
>>>only been a teacher. Her perceptions of what the business world was
>>>really
>>>like were just wrong, wrong, wrong. The students all knew this because we
>>>were all out there working!
>>
>> So you had a resistance to anyone telling you anything as far back as
>> high school and presumably even before that.
>> Janet US
>
>Always. But this was college. Some people like to be told what to do.
>Some don't. I'm all for rules when there was a reason.
snip

>When you grow up in an environment like this, you tend to not want to just
>blindly follow things just because someone tells you to do them.

I said nothing about being told what to do. I said telling you
anything, i.e., imparting knowledge.
Janet US

On 06/07/2014 4:03 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 07:30:52 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>> On 06/07/2014 6:48 AM, wrote:
>>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 08:27:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/6/2014 3:02 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of the dance kids go the home schooling route because it gives
>>>>> them more time to concentrate on dance and they can do the school work
>>>>> when it is convenient for them. These are very bright kids, very good
>>>>> students, often advanced students, and you certainly have to be able to
>>>>> get along well with others or you won't make it in the dance world. Or
>>>>> at least you won't make it very far or do very well.
>>>>
>>>> Where do these kinds end up in life? What if they don't make it in the
>>>> "dance world" and have to get by in life elsewhere? Do they have the
>>>> skills to do that?
>>>
>>> You're being too realistic. I notice that home schooled kids
>>> generally lack social skills because they have never had to mess in
>>> with others and leave mommy's side. All part of this helicopter
>>> parenting.
>>>
>> I understand that most home-schooling is done by religious nutters. But
>> then it's more brainwashing than education.
>> Graham
>
> You're a ****ing idiot.
>
Really? Well that makes you un enculé!
Graham

On Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:35:59 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
> On 7/5/2014 5:45 PM, sf wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 5 Jul 2014 20:25:39 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>
> > > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>
> >> ...
>
> >>> On 7/5/2014 12:46 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Some kids don't do well in school. And the ones with good grades aren't
>
> >>>> always the smartest. In some cases they are just good at parroting
>
> >>>> things back.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> I have great empathy for kids that find HS to be insufferable.
>
> >>
>
> >> Me too.
>
> >
>
> > Not me. Those who can't manage HS have problems with interpersonal
>
> > relationships. They need to grow up and learn how to deal with the
>
> > reality of life.
>
> >
>
>
>
> Where did you get that info from? I've never seen anything like that in
>
> the kids. As it goes, the educators are completely out of touch with
>
> what's going on. Your attitude is fairly typical - it's always some kind
>
> of personality defect of the kids. The reality is that this has nothing
>
> to do with their relationships with their peers. For a lot of bright
>
> kids, high school is boring them out of their skulls. For more info on
>
> this, try being forced to sit still in a small room for several hours a
>
> day for several years.



While it may not be a personality defect in a child, it is an inability to make the best of a bad situation or alter their situation that causes difficulty for the child.

The brighter the child, the better able he/she is able to do that. The others blame everyone/thing else, the other kids are dumb, the teacher is stupid/incompetent, and of course, the very popular," I am so smart and know everything so I am so bored and that is why I am not getting good grades"


Nellie

On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 11:49:21 +1000, Jeßus > wrote:

> I somehow managed to skip 2nd year of high school.
> I apparently never missed anything important, because I passed 3rd
> year without any problems and only just turned 16 y/o when I completed
> high school.

So what, lots of people do that. My husband had tuberculosis when he
was in high school and was put in a hospital in another state for a
year and a half with no HS tutoring during that time, but he still
graduated at age 17. BFD

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 21:42:11 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 11:49:21 +1000, Jeßus > wrote:
>
>> I somehow managed to skip 2nd year of high school.
>> I apparently never missed anything important, because I passed 3rd
>> year without any problems and only just turned 16 y/o when I completed
>> high school.
>
>So what, lots of people do that. My husband had tuberculosis when he
>was in high school and was put in a hospital in another state for a
>year and a half with no HS tutoring during that time, but he still
>graduated at age 17. BFD

Who said it was a big deal? Only you. LOL, you're so bitter and
twisted

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2014 18:49:22 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sun, 6 Jul 2014 16:06:07 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>> > wrote:
>>> snip
>>>>What I really found to be a waste of time there was that the teacher was
>>>>sooo very out of touch. She had never worked in the business world and
>>>>had
>>>>only been a teacher. Her perceptions of what the business world was
>>>>really
>>>>like were just wrong, wrong, wrong. The students all knew this because
>>>>we
>>>>were all out there working!
>>>
>>> So you had a resistance to anyone telling you anything as far back as
>>> high school and presumably even before that.
>>> Janet US
>>
>>Always. But this was college. Some people like to be told what to do.
>>Some don't. I'm all for rules when there was a reason.
> snip
>
>>When you grow up in an environment like this, you tend to not want to just
>>blindly follow things just because someone tells you to do them.
>
> I said nothing about being told what to do. I said telling you
> anything, i.e., imparting knowledge.
> Janet US

You actually said... Anyone telling you anything. People tell me things
all the time. But if they tell me what to do, that's a different matter.
And telling me what to do is what a lot of people keep doing here, when I
didn't ask for advice.

"Nellie" > wrote in message
...
On Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:35:59 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
> On 7/5/2014 5:45 PM, sf wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 5 Jul 2014 20:25:39 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>
> > > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>
> >> ...
>
> >>> On 7/5/2014 12:46 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Some kids don't do well in school. And the ones with good grades
> >>>> aren't
>
> >>>> always the smartest. In some cases they are just good at parroting
>
> >>>> things back.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> I have great empathy for kids that find HS to be insufferable.
>
> >>
>
> >> Me too.
>
> >
>
> > Not me. Those who can't manage HS have problems with interpersonal
>
> > relationships. They need to grow up and learn how to deal with the
>
> > reality of life.
>
> >
>
>
>
> Where did you get that info from? I've never seen anything like that in
>
> the kids. As it goes, the educators are completely out of touch with
>
> what's going on. Your attitude is fairly typical - it's always some kind
>
> of personality defect of the kids. The reality is that this has nothing
>
> to do with their relationships with their peers. For a lot of bright
>
> kids, high school is boring them out of their skulls. For more info on
>
> this, try being forced to sit still in a small room for several hours a
>
> day for several years.



While it may not be a personality defect in a child, it is an inability to
make the best of a bad situation or alter their situation that causes
difficulty for the child.

The brighter the child, the better able he/she is able to do that. The
others blame everyone/thing else, the other kids are dumb, the teacher is
stupid/incompetent, and of course, the very popular," I am so smart and know
everything so I am so bored and that is why I am not getting good grades"


Nellie

---

I don't know where you get that from! Some of the brightest people I know,
had difficulty with school. These are people who skipped a grade, went into
school early, graduated from high school and/or community college at age 16.

The difficulty came partly from boredom, and partly from not being able to
relate to many of the other students because they were just not on the same
level.

When I was a kid, I did have a lot of friends. I tend to get along with
most people. But I muchly preferred to be with adults rather than kids. I
was rather appalled at some of the idiotic things that kids did and also the
way some of them acted.

Yes, I know that adults can act in idiotic ways and act poorly but
thankfully at that point in my life, I didn't see too many of those.

"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> Michel Boucher wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> Je_us > wrote in
>> news >>
>> > > Yes, and remember, those same ones are the educators
>> >
>> > Nice generalisation there. My ex-g/f kids were home schooled,
>> > the youngest one came 4th in the state in his final year and
>> > if his age wasn't an issue, he would have begun his physics
>> > PhD at age 16. Her other two kids have gone into stage
>> > lighting/audio.
>> >
>> > Through them I know other home schooled kids and none of their
>> > families are religious, let alone being 'nutters'.
>>
>> Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the paper it's printed on (to
>> paraphrase Sam Goldwyn). In other words (to save you time) the
>> fact that you know some people who aren't nutters (that you know
>> of) does not provide a valid sample to determine whether or not a
>> majority of home schoolers are nutters or not. And you can't
>> assume they aren't from the existence of a few.
>
> Military people often have to home school these years. They do not
> transfer in even portions with the kids. If you move the kids at the
> wrong time now, they automatically fail a year regardless of grades.
>
> When we moved back from Japan, Virgina wanted to automatically make
> Charlotte repeat 8th grade until we could prove she'd passed it because
> the dates there were different. She'd already graduated 8th grade when
> we got here 2 weeks before VA ended the 8th grade.
>
> Believe me, there are lots of other reasons.

We didn't run into that but... I was told that it is very hard to transfer
into this school district and be able to graduate if you are in the higher
grades. They require the passing of certain classes that wouldn't
necessarily be offered where the kid came from. Like Washington state
history. So in order for them to graduate, the parent would have to pay for
them to take summer school. And if it is their senior year, they may have
to wait until the following year to be able to complete everything.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 11:49:21 +1000, Jeßus > wrote:
>
>> I somehow managed to skip 2nd year of high school.
>> I apparently never missed anything important, because I passed 3rd
>> year without any problems and only just turned 16 y/o when I completed
>> high school.
>
> So what, lots of people do that. My husband had tuberculosis when he
> was in high school and was put in a hospital in another state for a
> year and a half with no HS tutoring during that time, but he still
> graduated at age 17. BFD

I missed a lot of school but not that much. I graduated at 17. Stuff like
that doesn't happen these days. If a kid is sick for even a day, that puts
them behind and some stuff can never be made up. That to me is wrong.

On 7/6/2014 6:29 PM, Nellie wrote:
>
>
> While it may not be a personality defect in a child, it is an inability to make the best of a bad situation or alter their situation that causes difficulty for the child.
>
> The brighter the child, the better able he/she is able to do that. The others blame everyone/thing else, the other kids are dumb, the teacher is stupid/incompetent, and of course, the very popular," I am so smart and know everything so I am so bored and that is why I am not getting good grades"
>
>
> Nellie
>

You're talking about kids here. The reality is that they have very
little say in their education. Somebody has to stand up for them and
that's what I did for my son. I removed him from that stressful
environment and allowed him to follow his interests.

These days, he's going to college and should graduate next year. He then
plans to enter law school. Currently, he's taking honors classes and is
now in an accelerated French class. He wants to finish two years of
language in a summer. That might have been a tactical error because he
received 6 credits of a B grade and needs to ace the second part of the
class to stay in the honors program.

Our family went through hell to get my oldest son to fit in with the
educational system but in the end, he dropped out and never went back to
school again. I was not about to repeat history with my second son and I
wonder what would have happened had I not allowed the oldest to be put
through the educational wringer.

As far as these personality shortcomings you guys so fervently want to
see in my kids, there are none. My question to you is what the heck kind
of personality defects do you have to hope for such a thing?

On Sunday, July 6, 2014 10:57:15 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Nellie" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> On Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:35:59 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
>
> > On 7/5/2014 5:45 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On Sat, 5 Jul 2014 20:25:39 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>
> >
>
> > > > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>
> >
>
> > >> ...
>
> >
>
> > >>> On 7/5/2014 12:46 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>>>
>
> >
>
> > >>>> Some kids don't do well in school. And the ones with good grades
>
> > >>>> aren't
>
> >
>
> > >>>> always the smartest. In some cases they are just good at parroting
>
> >
>
> > >>>> things back.
>
> >
>
> > >>>
>
> >
>
> > >>> I have great empathy for kids that find HS to be insufferable.
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> Me too.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Not me. Those who can't manage HS have problems with interpersonal
>
> >
>
> > > relationships. They need to grow up and learn how to deal with the
>
> >
>
> > > reality of life.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Where did you get that info from? I've never seen anything like that in
>
> >
>
> > the kids. As it goes, the educators are completely out of touch with
>
> >
>
> > what's going on. Your attitude is fairly typical - it's always some kind
>
> >
>
> > of personality defect of the kids. The reality is that this has nothing
>
> >
>
> > to do with their relationships with their peers. For a lot of bright
>
> >
>
> > kids, high school is boring them out of their skulls. For more info on
>
> >
>
> > this, try being forced to sit still in a small room for several hours a
>
> >
>
> > day for several years.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> While it may not be a personality defect in a child, it is an inability to
>
> make the best of a bad situation or alter their situation that causes
>
> difficulty for the child.
>
>
>
> The brighter the child, the better able he/she is able to do that. The
>
> others blame everyone/thing else, the other kids are dumb, the teacher is
>
> stupid/incompetent, and of course, the very popular," I am so smart and know
>
> everything so I am so bored and that is why I am not getting good grades"
>
>
>
>
>
> Nellie
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> I don't know where you get that from! Some of the brightest people I know,
>
> had difficulty with school. These are people who skipped a grade, went into
>
> school early, graduated from high school and/or community college at age 16.
>
>
>
> The difficulty came partly from boredom, and partly from not being able to
>
> relate to many of the other students because they were just not on the same
>
> level.
>
>
>
> When I was a kid, I did have a lot of friends. I tend to get along with
>
> most people. But I muchly preferred to be with adults rather than kids. I
>
> was rather appalled at some of the idiotic things that kids did and also the
>
> way some of them acted.
>
>
>
> Yes, I know that adults can act in idiotic ways and act poorly but
>
> thankfully at that point in my life, I didn't see too many of those.



I rest my case.

Nellie

On 7/6/2014 7:57 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>
> I don't know where you get that from! Some of the brightest people I
> know, had difficulty with school. These are people who skipped a grade,
> went into school early, graduated from high school and/or community
> college at age 16.
>
> The difficulty came partly from boredom, and partly from not being able
> to relate to many of the other students because they were just not on
> the same level.
>
> When I was a kid, I did have a lot of friends. I tend to get along with
> most people. But I muchly preferred to be with adults rather than
> kids. I was rather appalled at some of the idiotic things that kids did
> and also the way some of them acted.
>
> Yes, I know that adults can act in idiotic ways and act poorly but
> thankfully at that point in my life, I didn't see too many of those.

You got that right. These ideas do not have anything to do with real
life. The seem more suitable for lame made-for-TV-movies.

I always thought it odd that my sons would relate better with adults
rather than their peers. When my oldest son was in school, his network
of friends were like that - knowledgeable beyond their years. They were
well adjusted and were not a problem behaviorally. It was a pleasure
when they would come to the house because they were respectful didn't
act like dumb kids. Both of my sons were into RPGs and the kids are
downstairs right now playing one of those games. Gee, what a bunch of
eggheads!

On Sunday, July 6, 2014 11:32:57 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
> On 7/6/2014 6:29 PM, Nellie wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > While it may not be a personality defect in a child, it is an inability to make the best of a bad situation or alter their situation that causes difficulty for the child.
>
> >
>
> > The brighter the child, the better able he/she is able to do that. The others blame everyone/thing else, the other kids are dumb, the teacher is stupid/incompetent, and of course, the very popular," I am so smart and know everything so I am so bored and that is why I am not getting good grades"
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Nellie
>
> >
>
>
>
> You're talking about kids here. The reality is that they have very
>
> little say in their education. Somebody has to stand up for them and
>
> that's what I did for my son. I removed him from that stressful
>
> environment and allowed him to follow his interests.
>
>
>
> These days, he's going to college and should graduate next year. He then
>
> plans to enter law school. Currently, he's taking honors classes and is
>
> now in an accelerated French class. He wants to finish two years of
>
> language in a summer. That might have been a tactical error because he
>
> received 6 credits of a B grade and needs to ace the second part of the
>
> class to stay in the honors program.
>
>
>
> Our family went through hell to get my oldest son to fit in with the
>
> educational system but in the end, he dropped out and never went back to
>
> school again. I was not about to repeat history with my second son and I
>
> wonder what would have happened had I not allowed the oldest to be put
>
> through the educational wringer.
>
>
>
> As far as these personality shortcomings you guys so fervently want to
>
> see in my kids, there are none. My question to you is what the heck kind
>
> of personality defects do you have to hope for such a thing?


I didn't say personality defect, in fact I said it was not. Even with that misunderstanding cleared up, where did you get that I (or we) hoped for it? I have worked with kids for many years and I would never wish or hope for any suffering for them.

Personality shortcomings that 'we' want to see in your kids? Are you talking to more than one person here?

I should have been more clear in my comment. I was speaking of academics and not about stress or any emotional issues. Go back and read the most common excuses that I listed in my last post, they are all regarding schoolwork and not personality defects.

We pulled our son out of a stressful situation once because he was not able to. The thing is, he told us about it and your son told you about it and that is exactly what I mean about being able to alter their situation. Changing classes, schools, GEDing out, taking classes at Community College, these are all bonafide ways of changing your circumstances.

I am glad your son is doing well.

Nellie

On 7/6/2014 9:47 PM, Nellie wrote:
> On Sunday, July 6, 2014 11:32:57 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 7/6/2014 6:29 PM, Nellie wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> While it may not be a personality defect in a child, it is an inability to make the best of a bad situation or alter their situation that causes difficulty for the child.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> The brighter the child, the better able he/she is able to do that. The others blame everyone/thing else, the other kids are dumb, the teacher is stupid/incompetent, and of course, the very popular," I am so smart and know everything so I am so bored and that is why I am not getting good grades"
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Nellie
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You're talking about kids here. The reality is that they have very
>>
>> little say in their education. Somebody has to stand up for them and
>>
>> that's what I did for my son. I removed him from that stressful
>>
>> environment and allowed him to follow his interests.
>>
>>
>>
>> These days, he's going to college and should graduate next year. He then
>>
>> plans to enter law school. Currently, he's taking honors classes and is
>>
>> now in an accelerated French class. He wants to finish two years of
>>
>> language in a summer. That might have been a tactical error because he
>>
>> received 6 credits of a B grade and needs to ace the second part of the
>>
>> class to stay in the honors program.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our family went through hell to get my oldest son to fit in with the
>>
>> educational system but in the end, he dropped out and never went back to
>>
>> school again. I was not about to repeat history with my second son and I
>>
>> wonder what would have happened had I not allowed the oldest to be put
>>
>> through the educational wringer.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as these personality shortcomings you guys so fervently want to
>>
>> see in my kids, there are none. My question to you is what the heck kind
>>
>> of personality defects do you have to hope for such a thing?
>
>
> I didn't say personality defect, in fact I said it was not. Even with that misunderstanding cleared up, where did you get that I (or we) hoped for it? I have worked with kids for many years and I would never wish or hope for any suffering for them.
>
> Personality shortcomings that 'we' want to see in your kids? Are you talking to more than one person here?
>
> I should have been more clear in my comment. I was speaking of academics and not about stress or any emotional issues. Go back and read the most common excuses that I listed in my last post, they are all regarding schoolwork and not personality defects.
>
> We pulled our son out of a stressful situation once because he was not able to. The thing is, he told us about it and your son told you about it and that is exactly what I mean about being able to alter their situation. Changing classes, schools, GEDing out, taking classes at Community College, these are all bonafide ways of changing your circumstances.
>
> I am glad your son is doing well.
>
> Nellie
>
>
>

I reread your post with your points in mind - thanks for the
clarification. I hope your son is doing well.

On Mon, 7 Jul 2014 03:25:13 +0100, Gorio
> wrote:

>'Jeßus[_3_ Wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> Yeah, it's a pity anything outside of the mainstream seems to get
>> poisoned with extremism over in the U.S. It's impossible to have a
>> reasoned debate on so many issues. The media doesnt help things,
>> either.
>
>True that. We're split between two extremes, here. Most media in the US
>supports one side or the other side. Much propaganda has resulted from
>both wings of the media political spectrum. People are cemented into
>their positions. It speaks to our social immaturity in that we don't
>compromise well.

It's a shame since it makes it all so divisive. But then, that suits
the system well. We have the same problem here, albeit to a much
smaller degree.

>I work as a counselor in a rural public school in Wisconsin. Love it.
>I've noticed the two extremes of home schooling. The great parent who
>wants their kid to ;learn more; and the loser who essentially drops our
>in favor of a diet of chips and grape soda. The one thing I've learned
>is that it's next to impossible to protect kids from psycho parents.
>Religious folks are the least of the problem.

Indeed. I can really understand somebody wanting to home school their
children, based on the quality of the public education both here in
Aus and the U.S. But as you say, there's only so much you can do with
the others... I wonder how they would fare at a normal school anyway.

In article >,
says...
>
> On 2014-07-06 6:03 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>
> >>> You're being too realistic. I notice that home schooled kids
> >>> generally lack social skills because they have never had to mess in
> >>> with others and leave mommy's side. All part of this helicopter
> >>> parenting.
> >>>
> >> I understand that most home-schooling is done by religious nutters. But
> >> then it's more brainwashing than education.
> >> Graham
> >
> > You're a ****ing idiot.
> >
>
> Nope. He is very accurate. It is the main reason that a lot of people
> homeschool. If it is not the primary reason for homeschooling it is one
> of the supporting arguments.

Such a sweeping statement! There's plenty of homeschooling in the UK,
but none of the many homeschoolers I've ever met, chose it for
religious reasons.

What about Australia, where thousands of childrn in remote areas are
educated at home by the School of the Air?

http://australia.gov.au/about-austra...ory/school-of-
the-air

Janet UK

In article >, says...
> I hope he does well with college.

> I hated it so badly that I dropped out
> after one semester.
>
> I only took two classes. One was psychology. . The
> other class was business communications. I knew I would have trouble with it
> because my mom had taken it prior. I was going for a law degree


LOL

Janet UK

In article >,
says...
>
> Jeßus > wrote in
> :
>
> >>Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the paper it's printed on (to
> >>paraphrase Sam Goldwyn). In other words (to save you time)
> >>the fact that you know some people who aren't nutters (that
> >>you know of)
> >
> > They're not nutters, they're in Australia. Their motivations
> > have nothing to do with religion. You seem to have those types
> > where you are, and we do too, but here it is extremely
> > uncommon.
>
> Again you are using anecdotal evidence to completely invalidate a
> legitimate argument. That's not the way to do it. You need to
> provide solid (verfiable) evidence (not hearsay or opinion) that
> the bulk (that means more than 50%) of people who do home schooling
> are not religious or ideological nutters.

The vast majority of homeschoolers in Australia do it because they
live so remote there's no option of going to school
while living at home.

http://australia.gov.au/about-austra...ory/school-of-
the-air

Janet UK

In article >,
says...
>
>
> I didn't say personality defect, in fact I said it was not. Even with that misunderstanding cleared up, where did you get that I (or we) hoped for it? I have worked with kids for many years and I would never wish or hope for any suffering for them.
>
> Personality shortcomings that 'we' want to see in your kids? Are you talking to more than one person here?
>
dsi has previously posted he suffers from paranoia and I don't think
he was joking. Difficult to live with even for someone aware of their
diagnosis.

It would have affected not just on his own perception of how schools
treated pupils and parents, but on how his sons saw their situation.


Janet UK

"Nellie" > wrote in message
...
> On Sunday, July 6, 2014 10:57:15 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Nellie" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> On Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:35:59 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> > On 7/5/2014 5:45 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > On Sat, 5 Jul 2014 20:25:39 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >> ...
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >>> On 7/5/2014 12:46 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >>>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >>>> Some kids don't do well in school. And the ones with good grades
>>
>> > >>>> aren't
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >>>> always the smartest. In some cases they are just good at
>> > >>>> parroting
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >>>> things back.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >>> I have great empathy for kids that find HS to be insufferable.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >> Me too.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Not me. Those who can't manage HS have problems with interpersonal
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > relationships. They need to grow up and learn how to deal with the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > reality of life.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Where did you get that info from? I've never seen anything like that in
>>
>> >
>>
>> > the kids. As it goes, the educators are completely out of touch with
>>
>> >
>>
>> > what's going on. Your attitude is fairly typical - it's always some
>> > kind
>>
>> >
>>
>> > of personality defect of the kids. The reality is that this has nothing
>>
>> >
>>
>> > to do with their relationships with their peers. For a lot of bright
>>
>> >
>>
>> > kids, high school is boring them out of their skulls. For more info on
>>
>> >
>>
>> > this, try being forced to sit still in a small room for several hours a
>>
>> >
>>
>> > day for several years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> While it may not be a personality defect in a child, it is an inability
>> to
>>
>> make the best of a bad situation or alter their situation that causes
>>
>> difficulty for the child.
>>
>>
>>
>> The brighter the child, the better able he/she is able to do that. The
>>
>> others blame everyone/thing else, the other kids are dumb, the teacher is
>>
>> stupid/incompetent, and of course, the very popular," I am so smart and
>> know
>>
>> everything so I am so bored and that is why I am not getting good grades"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nellie
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't know where you get that from! Some of the brightest people I
>> know,
>>
>> had difficulty with school. These are people who skipped a grade, went
>> into
>>
>> school early, graduated from high school and/or community college at age
>> 16.
>>
>>
>>
>> The difficulty came partly from boredom, and partly from not being able
>> to
>>
>> relate to many of the other students because they were just not on the
>> same
>>
>> level.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I was a kid, I did have a lot of friends. I tend to get along with
>>
>> most people. But I muchly preferred to be with adults rather than kids.
>> I
>>
>> was rather appalled at some of the idiotic things that kids did and also
>> the
>>
>> way some of them acted.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, I know that adults can act in idiotic ways and act poorly but
>>
>> thankfully at that point in my life, I didn't see too many of those.
>
>
>
> I rest my case.
>
> Nellie

What case?

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/6/2014 7:57 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't know where you get that from! Some of the brightest people I
>> know, had difficulty with school. These are people who skipped a grade,
>> went into school early, graduated from high school and/or community
>> college at age 16.
>>
>> The difficulty came partly from boredom, and partly from not being able
>> to relate to many of the other students because they were just not on
>> the same level.
>>
>> When I was a kid, I did have a lot of friends. I tend to get along with
>> most people. But I muchly preferred to be with adults rather than
>> kids. I was rather appalled at some of the idiotic things that kids did
>> and also the way some of them acted.
>>
>> Yes, I know that adults can act in idiotic ways and act poorly but
>> thankfully at that point in my life, I didn't see too many of those.
>
> You got that right. These ideas do not have anything to do with real life.
> The seem more suitable for lame made-for-TV-movies.
>
> I always thought it odd that my sons would relate better with adults
> rather than their peers. When my oldest son was in school, his network of
> friends were like that - knowledgeable beyond their years. They were well
> adjusted and were not a problem behaviorally. It was a pleasure when they
> would come to the house because they were respectful didn't act like dumb
> kids. Both of my sons were into RPGs and the kids are downstairs right now
> playing one of those games. Gee, what a bunch of eggheads!

Yep. And I am seeing it all play out again with some of my daughter's
friends. Both of us have been baffled by some of the things we have seen
them do. It's like they just act and don't think things through before they
do things. Then we want to just say something like... Well, what did you
THINK was going to happen?

I also don't get the thing about kids running around wildly and screaming.
I've heard countless parents say that this is normal behavior, especially
for boys. Well, none of the kids that I hung out did that sort of thing.
If they did, I sure as heck wouldn't be near them.

I do remember once having a boy with extreme ADHD at our house. He was
younger than my brother and me and was the youngest son of my parent's
friends. They had two much older boys who did not come to the house.

I had never seen anything like this kid before. Actually I don't think I
can even think of any kids at our school with ADHD. My dad had it it but at
least as an adult he was nothing like this kid. This kid was like Dennis
the Menace times 100!

My brother and I tried in vain to get him interested in something.
Anything! The TV, a board game, Legos, arts and crafts. Nope. He just
kept rapidly flipping from one thing to the next leaving a huge mess in his
wake. Worse still, we couldn't contain him to any one part of the house in
in the couple of hours that they were there he managed to make a shambles of
every room in the house! He was just grabbing at things, throwing,
breaking, overturning, you name it. We just sort of watched in tearful
horror and after they left, we begged my parents not to ever have him back.
They didn't!

My friend's son who also has ADHD and dropped out of school in the 8th grade
was and still is also a handful. He's an adult now and just moved back into
her house despite her telling him not to. She is trying to find a way to
get him out of there now. He has managed to stay in a couple of
relationships, one long enough to acquire a dog that they now share custody
of and one long enough to father a child who is my daughter's age. Sadly,
his son seems to share his temperament but at least he has managed to stay
in school somehow. He has gotten kicked out of every school in their
district and was for a time doing online school. Can't remember where she
said he is now. Another district I think. His mom has tried hard to keep
him in school.

I can only imagine how difficult it must be to have to deal with ADHD. I
rather liken it to trying to read a book while at the dance studio and being
surrounded by wild, screaming, running children and three different loud
conversations going on all at once. If I can manage to concentrate really
hard, I might just be able to read a few pages of that book. But often, I
will just give up and either go to another part of the studio or out to my
car. But when you have ADHD, you have something similar going on in your
mind all the time! Or so I have read. Your mind and ears and eyes pick up
everything all at once and you're unable to focus on any one thing or even
to be able to determine which one thing you should be focusing on. And meds
don't necessarily help. They can sometimes calm the urge to blurt things
out without thinking and perhaps slow down your thinking so that you can
focus a little better, but they can also make you very sleepy and knock the
personality right out of you.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/6/2014 6:29 PM, Nellie wrote:
>>
>>
>> While it may not be a personality defect in a child, it is an inability
>> to make the best of a bad situation or alter their situation that causes
>> difficulty for the child.
>>
>> The brighter the child, the better able he/she is able to do that. The
>> others blame everyone/thing else, the other kids are dumb, the teacher is
>> stupid/incompetent, and of course, the very popular," I am so smart and
>> know everything so I am so bored and that is why I am not getting good
>> grades"
>>
>>
>> Nellie
>>
>
> You're talking about kids here. The reality is that they have very little
> say in their education. Somebody has to stand up for them and that's what
> I did for my son. I removed him from that stressful environment and
> allowed him to follow his interests.
>
> These days, he's going to college and should graduate next year. He then
> plans to enter law school. Currently, he's taking honors classes and is
> now in an accelerated French class. He wants to finish two years of
> language in a summer. That might have been a tactical error because he
> received 6 credits of a B grade and needs to ace the second part of the
> class to stay in the honors program.
>
> Our family went through hell to get my oldest son to fit in with the
> educational system but in the end, he dropped out and never went back to
> school again. I was not about to repeat history with my second son and I
> wonder what would have happened had I not allowed the oldest to be put
> through the educational wringer.
>
> As far as these personality shortcomings you guys so fervently want to see
> in my kids, there are none. My question to you is what the heck kind of
> personality defects do you have to hope for such a thing?

It is obvious to me that Nellie considers herself to be superior not only to
me but perhaps most people on the face of the planet. That in and of itself
is considered a personality defect or disorder if you will. I don't
personally think that all disorders are defects though.

As the years go by I see more and more people either labeling themselves or
being labeled. When I was a kid, we often saw people who were different as
eccentric. That word is usually not used any more. We as a society seem to
like to put more specific labels on people. And I'm sure if you look hard
enough you could come up with some kind of label for every person even if
it's something like being a neatnick or a slob.

Worse still, a lot of these people when they get to be adults are looking
for some sort of med to take care of their problem! Note that I am not
making fun of anyone who truly does suffer from some sort of condition that
may in fact be addressed by some sort of med or counseling or biofeedback or
some such thing. I just think that a lot of times we are finding problems
that aren't really a big deal or aren't really there to begin with.

But with kids, it's more complex still. We as parents may see a problem but
are grasping at straws with how to deal with it. Partly because the kid may
not even really know what the problem is. We all just know that something
isn't working. Or if we do discover the problem, such as a personality
conflict with a teacher, there is little we can do about it.

I do remember having issues with one teacher in my senior year. I wasn't
the only one who had problems with this guy. The entire class was! The
class was called Contemporary World Problems. Finally! I thought this was
going to be my chance to really learn something about the world. In all the
past years of schooling, I took social studies. I learned all about the
Native Americans, sexuality, alcoholism, religion, etc. And many times over
repeating what I had already learned. But this class sounded exciting!

Yet day after day, Mr. G. had us review some films that he might be showing
in his Pre-Voc class. In those days they used the term Pre-Voc to mean what
they now term Special Ed. The films had no relevance to our class whatever
and were mostly films we had seen countless times in the past like Nanook of
the North and The Blue Men of Morocco. I think our school district owned
perhaps 20 films at the time and we just kept seeing them again and again
even if they didn't relate to our class. We also saw the Monarch Butterfly
one dozens of times. I had seen that one in Wichita as well.

If we weren't reviewing films, he had us doing other things that might help
his Pre-Voc class, or more often he would just dismiss us and tell us to go
to the library or something. Most of the time after he left (no clue where
he went), we played Hangman on the blackboard.

Every day we begged him to please let us address some contemporary world
problems. So finally he told us to read a newspaper and clip out some
articles.
Which we did. And we brought them to class, comparing what we brought in
and wondering what would happen next. Turned out that he didn't want our
newspaper clippings and nothing ever became of them.

Then about a week before finals, he passed out some line drawings of maps of
Africa and South America. We were told to label the countries and bodies of
water and color them in using colored pencils. He also passed out some
handouts of various countries. The handouts described what their flag looked
like. Listed the population, their major imports, exports and some other
facts such as the most common language and religion. He never told us what
to do with the papers. Then the day before the finals, we were told to
study for the test.

I didn't even bother to look at the papers he gave us because it was all
rather meaningless to me. How in the world would I ever remember what the
population of Brazil was? And yet? Our final was exactly that. All
multiple choice questions. We were expected to remember the exact
population of various countries and other rather useless facts about them.
I don't even think he used the imports and exports but we were expected to
remember what the flag looked like. There were not even pictures of the
flags. Just a really bad description.

I failed the test. I brought it home and showed it to my dad along with
everything else I had done in the class. Which wasn't a lot.

He was livid! Called the school and demanded that I be given a retest. He
and I tried to study the papers together but there was no way I could
remember all of the populations and that was mainly what we were tested on.
And I was not the only one who had parent complaints. Most of the class did
flunk the test and he gave us a new one. Again, I circled things at random
because this test was no better. This time he just barely looked it over
and gave me a passing grade. I can't remember what grade it was but it
couldn't have been too bad because I remained on the honor roll.

When my brother was put into Mr. G.'s class the following year, my dad
called the school and demanded that he be put in another class. He had
tried the same with me but had been told that every single student in that
class had already complained and they had no other class to move us all to.
By some miracle, my brother was put into a different class where he actually
learned something.

"Janet" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>>
>> I didn't say personality defect, in fact I said it was not. Even with
>> that misunderstanding cleared up, where did you get that I (or we) hoped
>> for it? I have worked with kids for many years and I would never wish or
>> hope for any suffering for them.
>>
>> Personality shortcomings that 'we' want to see in your kids? Are you
>> talking to more than one person here?
>>
> dsi has previously posted he suffers from paranoia and I don't think
> he was joking. Difficult to live with even for someone aware of their
> diagnosis.
>
> It would have affected not just on his own perception of how schools
> treated pupils and parents, but on how his sons saw their situation.

Yep. I grew up around some paranoid adults. Not paranoid about everything
mind you but certain things and they couldn't explain to me in a way that
made sense to me why they had these issues. Yet they expected me to feel
about these things the same way that they did and act the same. When I
didn't, I was made to feel that I was wrong.

I have always been rather stubborn and like to do things my own way and that
is what I did but still in the back of my mind there were some seeds of
doubt. Makes it tough to see the world in a realistic way when others
around you do not.

"Janet" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> On 2014-07-06 6:03 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>>
>> >>> You're being too realistic. I notice that home schooled kids
>> >>> generally lack social skills because they have never had to mess in
>> >>> with others and leave mommy's side. All part of this helicopter
>> >>> parenting.
>> >>>
>> >> I understand that most home-schooling is done by religious nutters.
>> >> But
>> >> then it's more brainwashing than education.
>> >> Graham
>> >
>> > You're a ****ing idiot.
>> >
>>
>> Nope. He is very accurate. It is the main reason that a lot of people
>> homeschool. If it is not the primary reason for homeschooling it is one
>> of the supporting arguments.
>
> Such a sweeping statement! There's plenty of homeschooling in the UK,
> but none of the many homeschoolers I've ever met, chose it for
> religious reasons.
>
> What about Australia, where thousands of childrn in remote areas are
> educated at home by the School of the Air?
>
> http://australia.gov.au/about-austra...ory/school-of-
> the-air
>
> Janet UK

When I first heard of home schooling here, we were living in NY. And the
only people we knew there who home schooled did do it for religious reasons.
They didn't want their kids to associate with other kids outside of their
faith. The one family was very nice although...not sure how to put it...not
exactly normal or mainstream in many ways. For instance, they did allow
their girls to play with Barbie dolls but they were never allowed to wear
any sort of costumes or go Trick Or Treating much less eat candy or any kind
of sweets.

As a result of this, I once found the youngest girl stuffing her face with
some jelly beans that I had left outside. They didn't even belong to me. I
was babysitting a neighbor boy whose mother had died. He had taken the
death very hard and had quit eating. He had lost so much weight that the Dr.
told his grandma to let him eat whatever he would just to get some weight
back on. At that point, the jelly beans and iceberg lettuce were all that
he would eat but not long after he did start eating a few other things.

Anyway... Those kids were also punished quite severely. The same girl had
gotten permission to play at our house and the same boy that I mentioned
above was there. The boy had asked me to clean his glasses for him and
while I was in the kitchen, some silly fight broke out. Neither the boy nor
my daughter had a clue what it was about. They just said that the girl
flipped over the game board and they could no longer play the game.

We all went down to the girl's apartment and inside we could hear the mother
just screaming at her and it sounded like the girl was being hit. We'll
never know what really happened. The mother did let us into her apartment a
few times but most of our contact with her was outside.

The other home schooled family lived across the street from them. Those
kids were always out running loose all day long, no matter the weather.
They often came to me and made comments about our food but said that they
were not allowed to eat it, even though they were hungry. They had very few
toys. I never met their mother but the other home schooling mother told me
that their mother was quite ill and that their dad was away. She said she
did feed them from time to time. But they were not allowed to play with
anyone else but her kids due to the religion thing. They were not the same
religion either. The really strict family went to church every night for a
couple of hours and on Wednesdays stayed there late into the night. I
always wondered when those kids were actually learning something because it
really seemed they were not.

"Janet" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >, says...
>> I hope he does well with college.
>
>> I hated it so badly that I dropped out
>> after one semester.
>>
>> I only took two classes. One was psychology. . The
>> other class was business communications. I knew I would have trouble with
>> it
>> because my mom had taken it prior. I was going for a law degree
>
>
> LOL
>
> Janet UK

And that is funny...how?