On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:


> Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
>
> musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
>
> an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
>
> point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
>
> demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.


"Best left to"?

If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.

I seem to remember an article by a teacher that told of how a class
of teens in a middle-class(?) high school flatly refused to contemplate
the idea that one purpose of high school is to expand your vocabulary.
Quote (not verbatim) from a student: "If you people (adults) would only
talk like everyone else, we wouldn't need all those extra words."

Reminds me of how some people say that nowadays, the purpose of college
is to prove you have a high school education.

Lenona.

On Monday, August 4, 2014 9:35:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Sunday, August 3, 2014 7:19:08 PM UTC-4, Kalmia wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I won't even get INTO 'forte'.
>
>
>
> I learned that from George Carlin.
>
>
>
> It was gratifying, later on, to hear Charles Emerson Winchester (on
>
> M*A*S*H) pronouncing the noun correctly. Those writers sure did
>
> their research well - but for all I know, David Ogden Stiers
>
> knew the correct pronunciation anyway.
>
>
>
> (For those who don't know, you only pronounce the e when it's an
>
> adjective.)
>
>
>
> It's refreshing when comics and cartoonists use intelligence and
>
> simple facts to make things funnier. One Far Side cartoon example:
>
>
>
> http://www.jokefile.co.uk/animal_jokes/mosquito.html
>
>
>
> SPOILER:
>
>
>
> (Part of the joke is that it's only the female mosquitoes that drink
>
> blood - the males drink plant juices.)
>
The females drink plant juices too.
>
> Lenona.

--Bryan

> wrote in message
...
> On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>
>
>> Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
>>
>> musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
>>
>> an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
>>
>> point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
>>
>> demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.
>
>
> "Best left to"?
>
> If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
> regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
> of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
> normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.
>
> I seem to remember an article by a teacher that told of how a class
> of teens in a middle-class(?) high school flatly refused to contemplate
> the idea that one purpose of high school is to expand your vocabulary.
> Quote (not verbatim) from a student: "If you people (adults) would only
> talk like everyone else, we wouldn't need all those extra words."
>
> Reminds me of how some people say that nowadays, the purpose of college
> is to prove you have a high school education.
>


I used to have a boss who would pause and pause to think of a word, then say
it and complete his sentence. I would as "what does **that word** mean?"
He would then just use a normal, simple word that meant the same thing.

On Sunday, August 3, 2014 8:05:22 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>
> I have several shagbark hickory trees, they are some 50-60 feet tall,
>
> gorgeous trees. I used to check but never found any nuts, just husks
>
> on the ground, squirrels... I was not about to compete with squirrels
>
> climbing trees.

Shagbark nuts are delicious. The squirrels that eat them taste pretty
good too.

--Bryan

"John" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 05 Aug 2014 10:00:51 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, August 4, 2014 12:09:54 PM UTC-4, Kalmia wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Would you use it adjectivally in a sentence, please?
>>>
>>> Here's how Carlin used it:
>>>
>>> The English word forte, meaning "specialty" or "strong point," is not
>>> pronounced
>>> "for-tay." Got that? It is pronounced "fort." The Italian word forte,
>>> used in music
>>> notation, is pronounced "for-tay," and it instructs the musician to play
>>> loud: "She
>>> plays the skin flute, and her forte [fort] is playing forte [for-tay]."
>>> Look it up. And
>>> don't give me that whiny shit, "For-tay is listed as the second
>>> preference." There's
>>> a reason it's second: because it's not first!
>>
>>Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
>>musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
>>an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
>>point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
>>demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.
>
> Who needs French anyway. If English was good enough for Jesus, it's
> good enough for us!
>

well said!

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Monday, August 4, 2014 12:09:54 PM UTC-4, Kalmia wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Would you use it adjectivally in a sentence, please?
>
> >
>
> > Here's how Carlin used it:
>
> >
>
> > The English word forte, meaning "specialty" or "strong point," is not pronounced "for-tay." Got that? It is pronounced "fort." The Italian word forte, used in music notation, is pronounced "for-tay," and it instructs the musician to play loud: "She plays the skin flute, and her forte [fort] is playing forte [for-tay]." Look it up. And don't give me that whiny shit, "For-tay is listed as the second preference." There's a reason it's second: because it's not first!
>
>
>
> Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
>
> musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
>
> an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
>
> point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
>
> demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.

Another goodie is the habit of plastering umlauts over just about any vowel one cares to choose, to make it look German. Likewise galling, ( get the almost-pun? ), is that practice of sticking accents over any French word ending in 'e'. AGGHH. Especially guilty of this are those developers who name subdivisions, streets etc. and probably never even mastered to, too and two.

On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>
>
> > Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
> >
> > musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
> >
> > an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
> >
> > point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
> >
> > demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.
>
>
> "Best left to"?

Yes. You people are the ones who rely on French words to say
something that can be better understood by everyone when using
English. If "fort" means "strong point", then say "strong point" and
don't try to be cute.
>
> If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
> regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
> of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
> normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.

You're an East Coaster. French words are part of the fabric back
there. Words like "forte" are obviously not very well learned by the
natives or else people would know when it's appropriate to say fortay
and when they should say fort. If they did, the common misuse
wouldn't be made fun of by a comedian.
>
> I seem to remember an article by a teacher that told of how a class
> of teens in a middle-class(?) high school flatly refused to contemplate
> the idea that one purpose of high school is to expand your vocabulary.
> Quote (not verbatim) from a student: "If you people (adults) would only
> talk like everyone else, we wouldn't need all those extra words."
>
> Reminds me of how some people say that nowadays, the purpose of college
> is to prove you have a high school education.
>
I've never heard that, but again... you're an east coaster. You guys
are different.



--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:27:59 +1000, John > wrote:

> Who needs French anyway. If English was good enough for Jesus, it's
> good enough for us!
>

You got it brotha... the Jesus with blond hair and blue eyes.


--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:28:25 AM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>

> >
>
> > "Best left to"?
>
>
>
> Yes. You people are the ones who rely on French words to say
>
> something that can be better understood by everyone when using
>
> English. If "fort" means "strong point", then say "strong point" and
>
> don't try to be cute.
>
> >
>
> > If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
>
> > regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
>
> > of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
>
> > normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.
>
>
>
> You're an East Coaster. French words are part of the fabric back
>
> there. Words like "forte" are obviously not very well learned by the
>
> natives or else people would know when it's appropriate to say fortay
>
> and when they should say fort. If they did, the common misuse
>
> wouldn't be made fun of by a comedian.
>

Yes, and very small kids in some rural parts of the country might get
angry and frustrated by the long, unfamiliar French word "restaurant"
when adults could just say "a place to eat." Not to mention unfamiliar
words like "gargantuan" or "substantial" or "vast" when you just say
"big."

Reminds me of the 16-year-old, book-hating Scarlett O'Hara. "She hated
people who used words unknown to her."

Why, exactly, was it civilized for her to hate such people, per se?

As if her preferences should rule the world?


Lenona.

On 8/6/2014 12:29 AM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:27:59 +1000, John > wrote:
>
>> Who needs French anyway. If English was good enough for Jesus, it's
>> good enough for us!
>>
>
> You got it brotha... the Jesus with blond hair and blue eyes.
>
>
LOL If Jesus had shown up in the 1960's in Haight-Ashbury he'd have
been considered a long-haired hippie. He might have developed a cult
following... at least until the Bee Gees came along.

Jill

>
> Who needs French anyway. If English was good enough for Jesus, it's
>
> good enough for us!
>

Jesus who??

On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 13:01:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

> On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:28:25 AM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> >
> > > "Best left to"?
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes. You people are the ones who rely on French words to say
> >
> > something that can be better understood by everyone when using
> >
> > English. If "fort" means "strong point", then say "strong point" and
> >
> > don't try to be cute.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
> >
> > > regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
> >
> > > of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
> >
> > > normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.
> >
> >
> >
> > You're an East Coaster. French words are part of the fabric back
> >
> > there. Words like "forte" are obviously not very well learned by the
> >
> > natives or else people would know when it's appropriate to say fortay
> >
> > and when they should say fort. If they did, the common misuse
> >
> > wouldn't be made fun of by a comedian.
> >
>
> Yes, and very small kids in some rural parts of the country might get
> angry and frustrated by the long, unfamiliar French word "restaurant"
> when adults could just say "a place to eat." Not to mention unfamiliar
> words like "gargantuan" or "substantial" or "vast" when you just say
> "big."

If you're trying to say "fort" and "fortay" are in common usage. I
beg to differ. Again. You're an East Coaster. You people live and
breath French. Hit the flat states and the rest of the country does
not.
>
> Reminds me of the 16-year-old, book-hating Scarlett O'Hara. "She hated
> people who used words unknown to her."
>
> Why, exactly, was it civilized for her to hate such people, per se?
>
> As if her preferences should rule the world?
>
She was a character in a book, subject to the author's whims, but
maybe you haven't figured that part out yet.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 14:42:34 +1000, John > wrote:

> On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 21:29:05 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >
> >If you're trying to say "fort" and "fortay" are in common usage. I
> >beg to differ. Again. You're an East Coaster. You people live and
> >breath French.
>
> Huh? I don't think they get very far past freedom fries.

That would be Sheldon, nobody else is that stupid - unless they're a
Confederate who thinks the South will rise again.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 21:29:05 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 13:01:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:28:25 AM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>> > On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>> >
>>
>> > >
>> >
>> > > "Best left to"?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes. You people are the ones who rely on French words to say
>> >
>> > something that can be better understood by everyone when using
>> >
>> > English. If "fort" means "strong point", then say "strong point" and
>> >
>> > don't try to be cute.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
>> >
>> > > regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
>> >
>> > > of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
>> >
>> > > normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > You're an East Coaster. French words are part of the fabric back
>> >
>> > there. Words like "forte" are obviously not very well learned by the
>> >
>> > natives or else people would know when it's appropriate to say fortay
>> >
>> > and when they should say fort. If they did, the common misuse
>> >
>> > wouldn't be made fun of by a comedian.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, and very small kids in some rural parts of the country might get
>> angry and frustrated by the long, unfamiliar French word "restaurant"
>> when adults could just say "a place to eat." Not to mention unfamiliar
>> words like "gargantuan" or "substantial" or "vast" when you just say
>> "big."
>
>If you're trying to say "fort" and "fortay" are in common usage. I
>beg to differ. Again. You're an East Coaster. You people live and
>breath French. Hit the flat states and the rest of the country does
>not.
>>
>> Reminds me of the 16-year-old, book-hating Scarlett O'Hara. "She hated
>> people who used words unknown to her."
>>
>> Why, exactly, was it civilized for her to hate such people, per se?
>>
>> As if her preferences should rule the world?
>>
>She was a character in a book, subject to the author's whims, but
>maybe you haven't figured that part out yet.

So exactly where does "English" or perhaps I should say, "American"
stop? Chaucer? Shakespeare? the King James Bible? Rush Limbaugh?
George Bush? Just before any word you either don't know or don't like?
By all means, enlighten us, but please stop confusing area for
population. Well over 50% of the population of the U.S. lives within
50 miles of the coast and the percentage has increased with every
census for the past 50 years.

On Thursday, August 7, 2014 12:29:05 AM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 13:01:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

>
> > Reminds me of the 16-year-old, book-hating Scarlett O'Hara. "She hated
>
> > people who used words unknown to her."
>
> >
>
> > Why, exactly, was it civilized for her to hate such people, per se?
>
> >
>
> > As if her preferences should rule the world?
>
> >
>
> She was a character in a book, subject to the author's whims, but
>
> maybe you haven't figured that part out yet.


Maybe I should have spelled things out a bit.

While Margaret Mitchell was too cowardly - or just unwilling - to
condemn slavery at any point in GWTW (though I don't remember her even
mentioning Lincoln's assassination), she was pretty clear in certain
criticisms of the times. One was that while Ashley and Melanie were
very well-read, that hardly made up for their overwhelming inabilities
to survive on their own in the post-war era, which made them dependent
on Scarlett. At the same time, while Scarlett had the most-needed
qualities, Mitchell obviously didn't approve of how it was considered
more or less OK back then for her and other rich girls to drop out of
school and/or never read in general.

Example:

"Arrogant devil, isn't he?" he observed, looking after Butler. "He
looks like one of the Borgias."

Scarlett thought quickly but could remember no family in the County
or Atlanta or Savannah by that name.

"I don't know them. Is he kin to them? Who are they?"

An odd look came over Charles' face, incredulity and shame struggling
with love. Love triumphed as he realized that it was enough for a
girl to be sweet and gentle and beautiful, without having an education
to hamper her charms, and he made swift answer: "The Borgias were
Italians."

"Oh," said Scarlett, losing interest, "foreigners."

She turned her prettiest smile on Ashley, but for some reason he was
not looking at her. He was looking at Charles, and there was
understanding in his face and a little pity.
__________________________

Later on, in her second marriage, it's only Scarlett's learned skills
in math that save her from poverty, even though her ignorance keeps
causing her embarrassment.

Not to mention that Rhett's education, combined with his smooth charm,
likely helped him in his profiteering.

And as critics often say, those two selfish scoundrels deserved each
other, in part because Rhett loves to laugh at her and put her down
for her ignorance, but aside from his being disgustingly rude that
way, it doesn't occur to him that she's never going to admire a man
for his education, per se - and so she's just as contemptuous of HIM,
in a way. Not to mention that Rhett blinds himself to the fact that
MOST women really don't want to marry men old enough to be their
fathers, so Scarlett's slowness to fall in love was hardly surprising.
(Many Scarlett-haters don't notice the age difference in the book, I
guess - it's 19 yea.)



Lenona.