In article >,
says...

> Sounds very unscrupulous. Mom's lawyer didn't charge an exhorbitant
> amount for handling the probate. Then again, it didn't amount to much
> work on his part. Her Will very clearly defined the division of monies
> and property. All he had to do was file it with the court.

Either your mother's estate was minimal/ very simple to administer, or
the task of Executor is very different in the USA. Here, executing a
will is lots more work than just "file the will with the court".

Here, as a minimum, the executor has to locate, notify, list and get
professionally valued all the assets of the deceased, (everything from
their home/car to their furniture, belongings, stocks, insurances, bank
accounts etc) and also find, notify, and settle any debts/tax
liabilities; set up a separate bank account into which financial assets
are collected and from which to settle debts and taxes. If property is
to be sold or passed on he is responsible for its care, insurance and
maintenance meanwhile.

Having settled the estate's value he then has to distribute bequests to
the beneficiaries. ( Or break the bad news that liabilities/costs
exceeded assets and there's nothing left to inherit).

All that is assuming there are no legal disputes/challenges (from
creditors or beneficiaries or family over ownership/valuation of assets
etc), which may require him to attend court. I've seen bitter family
members obstructing Executors for years, deliberately running up
Executor's costs in some Dog in Manger attempt to shrink assets left to
someone else.

Janet UK

On 8/11/2014 5:46 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/10/2014 8:13 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>> Verizon advised me to just leave it. My name is on the account as an
>> authorized person. I transferred on e car to my name, the one I sold.
>> The RV and other car can wait.
>>
>> The only problem I had was with DirecTV. They insisted I either pay for
>> 15 months at $150 a month or pay an early termination fee of $250. I
>> think they suck!
>>
>> Still waiting for the lawyer to get me a probate date. Once I have the
>> letters testementary, I can open a checking account to cash the checks I
>> have and one I am expecting that are in his name. Wells Fargo will give
>> me the account for free. Wells Fargo has been awesome. They have
>> notarized papers for me, helped me with deposits and anything else I
>> needed. I went on their Facebook page to commend them.
>
> That speaks well for Well's Fargo.
>
> Comcast is still in my mother's name although I'm an authorized user on
> the account. They are the only company/service provider that wouldn't
> let me mail them a copy of her death certificate to request the
> change-over to my name. They insist I have to bring it to them in
> person. That just doesn't make any sense to me.
>
> Jill

Comcast is a most non user-friendly entity, in my experience.

The simple act of returning a digital cable box requires an endless wait
at one of their DMV-style stores - odd given their installers and
service techs are always out and about the neighborhood.

On 8/10/2014 8:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/10/2014 4:13 PM, Ema Nymton wrote:
>
>> The last time my
>> firstborn here, I showed him the bookcase with a glass front, where his
>> great-grandfather stored his law books, and it would look nice in his
>> home office, but he was not interested in the least. We even offered to
>> deliver. I might leave all of this to my hairdresser - really.
>>
>> Becca
>>
>
> Perhaps your hairdresser will appreciate it more. I'm thinking our kids
> will have a yard sale and get rid of everything at bargain prices.

A friend in Hot Springs, Arkansas passed away on the first of May, and
one of his daughters is cleaning out the house. She showed a photo of a
huge dumpster in the driveway. If I had to clean out an entire house, I
would take home anything that was important to me or my family, and get
rid of everything through an estate sale. They keep a percentage, but
they also do most of the work.

Becca

On 8/10/2014 10:32 PM, Doris Night wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:17:52 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
>
>> I wonder what will happen to the curved glass/clawfoot china
>> cabinet that my mother has at her place. It's been in the family
>> for however long. Who has room for such a thing? Well, my brother
>> does, and it would go great in his house, but with kids running around,
>> seems dangerous. Anyway, that's what comes to my mind when I think
>> of that, what will happen to possessions.
>>
>>> I might leave all of this to my hairdresser - really.
>>
>> Why not. Anyone who appreciates it and wants it.
>
> When my dad died two years ago, one of the things he left behind was a
> teak secretary desk, about 50 years old. It was almost a part of him -
> he had stuff sorted the way he wanted, there were clips hanging with
> things that only he could know the meaning of, and the drawers were
> full of mystery papers.
>
> We ended up with this desk at our house, and we had no interest in
> keeping it (we already had a lot of stuff from the estate to deal
> with).
>
> As it happened, the house next door to us had recently changed hands,
> and the new owners were looking for furniture. We gave them Dad's
> desk, and it fit beautifully in a little corner in their living room.
> It looked like it was meant to be there. I'm happy we gave it to them
> because the desk looks like it's glad to be there. Also, I can see it
> every time I go to their house. This would not be the case if we had
> sold it.
>
> Doris

Doris, it is nice when you find someone who is happy having something
that you no longer need. There is a Hispanic fella who has helped us
out, on the weekends (he does landscape & maintenance during the week),
and we offer him anything we no longer want/need. He will soon paint the
exterior of our house and he will put a new roof on the greenhouse. He
has a baby coming soon, so we are trying to give him all the work we can.

Becca

On 8/11/2014 11:38 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>> Sounds very unscrupulous. Mom's lawyer didn't charge an exhorbitant
>> amount for handling the probate. Then again, it didn't amount to much
>> work on his part. Her Will very clearly defined the division of monies
>> and property. All he had to do was file it with the court.
>
> Either your mother's estate was minimal/ very simple to administer, or
> the task of Executor is very different in the USA. Here, executing a
> will is lots more work than just "file the will with the court".
>
I was talking about her lawyer not charging a lot of money or having to
do much. Not about my role as executor. It took me a year to get
everything settled. I did the work.

> Here, as a minimum, the executor has to locate, notify, list and get
> professionally valued all the assets of the deceased, (everything from
> their home/car to their furniture, belongings, stocks, insurances, bank
> accounts etc) and also find, notify, and settle any debts/tax
> liabilities; set up a separate bank account into which financial assets
> are collected and from which to settle debts and taxes. If property is
> to be sold or passed on he is responsible for its care, insurance and
> maintenance meanwhile.
>

I did all that. Her LAWYER did not. Therefore he did not charge much,
nor did he assign himself executor.

Jill

On 8/11/2014 8:24 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2014-08-11 7:49 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> There's a heck of a lot involved, that's for sure. I can't think of one
>> good reason anyone would *want* to be the executor of an estate.
>>
>>
>
> My brother has a friend who is a lawyer who ha a lot of elderly clients.
> He has written up wills for them and written himself in as executor. He
> starts off every morning checking out the obituaries. When he sees a
> client's name he locks up the house and sends in an assessor to
> calculate the value..... so he can claim his fee, which will be a
> percentage of the value of the estate.

That sounds disgusting, it sounds like he is anxiously waiting for his
clients to die.

One of my relatives was an attorney, then a judge, and when people ran
out of money and could not pay their mortgage/loan, during the
depression, their houses, businesses, ranches and farms were sold at
auction on the steps of the courthouse. Since he was a judge and had
knowledge beforehand, he owned a big chunk of real estate in the county.
Now you see why they have so many rules concerning attorneys and judges,
you can not trust some of them.

Most banks have excellent trust departments and since they are corporate
entities they will not die or move away. I would use a bank as executor
before I would choose an attorney. However, either one of them can be
crooked.

Becca

On 2014-08-11 11:38 AM, Janet wrote:

> All that is assuming there are no legal disputes/challenges (from
> creditors or beneficiaries or family over ownership/valuation of assets
> etc), which may require him to attend court. I've seen bitter family
> members obstructing Executors for years, deliberately running up
> Executor's costs in some Dog in Manger attempt to shrink assets left to
> someone else.


My grandmother's will caused a huge rift in my mother's family. A couple
of my cousin's never did sign off.

On 8/11/2014 6:46 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/10/2014 8:13 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>> Verizon advised me to just leave it. My name is on the account as an
>> authorized person. I transferred on e car to my name, the one I sold.
>> The RV and other car can wait.
>>
>> The only problem I had was with DirecTV. They insisted I either pay for
>> 15 months at $150 a month or pay an early termination fee of $250. I
>> think they suck!
>>
>> Still waiting for the lawyer to get me a probate date. Once I have the
>> letters testementary, I can open a checking account to cash the checks I
>> have and one I am expecting that are in his name. Wells Fargo will give
>> me the account for free. Wells Fargo has been awesome. They have
>> notarized papers for me, helped me with deposits and anything else I
>> needed. I went on their Facebook page to commend them.
>
> That speaks well for Well's Fargo.
>
> Comcast is still in my mother's name although I'm an authorized user on
> the account. They are the only company/service provider that wouldn't
> let me mail them a copy of her death certificate to request the
> change-over to my name. They insist I have to bring it to them in
> person. That just doesn't make any sense to me.
>
> Jill

I am on the electric co-op. I had to come in in person and present the
death certificate as well as my picture ID

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 8/11/2014 8:24 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2014-08-11 7:49 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> There's a heck of a lot involved, that's for sure. I can't think of one
>> good reason anyone would *want* to be the executor of an estate.
>>
>>
>
> My brother has a friend who is a lawyer who ha a lot of elderly clients.
> He has written up wills for them and written himself in as executor. He
> starts off every morning checking out the obituaries. When he sees a
> client's name he locks up the house and sends in an assessor to
> calculate the value..... so he can claim his fee, which will be a
> percentage of the value of the estate.

When I worked in probate departments of some law firms, it was my job to
read the obits first thing in the AM and cross-check them against the
will file. Hearse chasing.

Processing an estate is a lot of work, especially when there are state
inheritance taxes and, not so much recently, but Federal estate taxes.
Often there are trusts to wind up which must be accounted for. Today
there are computer programs that do a lot of this, but still it's plenty
of work.
>
> For some reason, I agreed to be executor for my sister in law and her
> husband. He has said that if she goes first he won't allow the estate to
> be dealt with for at least a year. His family is totally dysfunctional.
> I will be charging a fee on that one and then pass it back to SiL.

You have a duty under the law to present the will for probate. You had
better check the state statutes.
>
> My brother was executor of my aunt's will. I had been her power of
> attorney. He was not going to collect a executor's fee on that but our
> cousin was such a pain in the ass that he ended passing the job off to
> his lawyer friend, and they both collected a fee. I don't blame him.
> She had annoyed me enough when I was PoA. No need to go into details
> about her problem, but nephews were entrusted with positions of PoA and
> executor over the only daughter.
>


--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 8/11/2014 10:38 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>> Sounds very unscrupulous. Mom's lawyer didn't charge an exhorbitant
>> amount for handling the probate. Then again, it didn't amount to much
>> work on his part. Her Will very clearly defined the division of monies
>> and property. All he had to do was file it with the court.
>
> Either your mother's estate was minimal/ very simple to administer, or
> the task of Executor is very different in the USA. Here, executing a
> will is lots more work than just "file the will with the court".
>
> Here, as a minimum, the executor has to locate, notify, list and get
> professionally valued all the assets of the deceased, (everything from
> their home/car to their furniture, belongings, stocks, insurances, bank
> accounts etc) and also find, notify, and settle any debts/tax
> liabilities; set up a separate bank account into which financial assets
> are collected and from which to settle debts and taxes. If property is
> to be sold or passed on he is responsible for its care, insurance and
> maintenance meanwhile.
>
> Having settled the estate's value he then has to distribute bequests to
> the beneficiaries. ( Or break the bad news that liabilities/costs
> exceeded assets and there's nothing left to inherit).
>
> All that is assuming there are no legal disputes/challenges (from
> creditors or beneficiaries or family over ownership/valuation of assets
> etc), which may require him to attend court. I've seen bitter family
> members obstructing Executors for years, deliberately running up
> Executor's costs in some Dog in Manger attempt to shrink assets left to
> someone else.
>
> Janet UK
>

It's the same here, Janet. I worked in New Jersey, a state whose
statutes were based on English common Law, having been one of the
original colonies.

I have had to comb through 10 years of income tax returns looking for
assets, often finding a deduction for a safe deposit box that no one had
the key to that had to be drilled.

The executor also has to file the decedent's final income tax return and
it's a great hunt for documentation of a dead person's.

Most governments place a much higher duty of care upon a non-family
member executor or administrator than on an ordinary person. I have,
personally, worked up law suits on such entities as Citibank for
improperly handling a trust to the benefit of the income beneficiary and
detriment of the remainderman. I have sued a hospital for failing to
keep the name of the donor on a clinic. I have gone to court to defend a
trust. I took the role of fiduciary very seriously. After all someone
had appointed my employers as their representative on this earth. It
was a solemn responsibility.

Also the job was lots of fun. I felt like Nancy Drew hunting up clues. :-)

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 8/11/2014 11:21 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/11/2014 11:38 AM, Janet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>
>>> Sounds very unscrupulous. Mom's lawyer didn't charge an exhorbitant
>>> amount for handling the probate. Then again, it didn't amount to much
>>> work on his part. Her Will very clearly defined the division of monies
>>> and property. All he had to do was file it with the court.
>>
>> Either your mother's estate was minimal/ very simple to administer, or
>> the task of Executor is very different in the USA. Here, executing a
>> will is lots more work than just "file the will with the court".
>>
> I was talking about her lawyer not charging a lot of money or having to
> do much. Not about my role as executor. It took me a year to get
> everything settled. I did the work.
>
>> Here, as a minimum, the executor has to locate, notify, list and get
>> professionally valued all the assets of the deceased, (everything from
>> their home/car to their furniture, belongings, stocks, insurances, bank
>> accounts etc) and also find, notify, and settle any debts/tax
>> liabilities; set up a separate bank account into which financial assets
>> are collected and from which to settle debts and taxes. If property is
>> to be sold or passed on he is responsible for its care, insurance and
>> maintenance meanwhile.
>>
>
> I did all that. Her LAWYER did not. Therefore he did not charge much,
> nor did he assign himself executor.
>
> Jill


No one can assign themselves as executor. They have to be named in the
will. If there is no will, most states have a set of requirements for
the closest person to the decedent to be appointed as administrator.
generally, an administrator has to post a bond, most wills waive bonding
for executors.

When my daughter died, she had no will. 21 year old college students
rarely do. She didn't even have a checking account, she gave me cash
and I wrote her checks on my account when she needed one. All she owned
was the car she was killed in. I went up to the Surrogate's office,
where they issue the letters, and got the Surrogate to waive the bonding
when I showed him a newspaper clipping of the mangled car.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 8/11/2014 11:34 AM, Ema Nymton wrote:
> On 8/11/2014 8:24 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-08-11 7:49 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>> There's a heck of a lot involved, that's for sure. I can't think of one
>>> good reason anyone would *want* to be the executor of an estate.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> My brother has a friend who is a lawyer who ha a lot of elderly clients.
>> He has written up wills for them and written himself in as executor. He
>> starts off every morning checking out the obituaries. When he sees a
>> client's name he locks up the house and sends in an assessor to
>> calculate the value..... so he can claim his fee, which will be a
>> percentage of the value of the estate.
>
> That sounds disgusting, it sounds like he is anxiously waiting for his
> clients to die.

Common practice in most law firms. They maintain a file of wills they
have written and check the obits every AM. BTDT

>
> Most banks have excellent trust departments and since they are corporate
> entities they will not die or move away. I would use a bank as executor
> before I would choose an attorney. However, either one of them can be
> crooked.


I have come across crooked banks and crooked lawyers, but if they are
caught, the law deals very harshly with them. My last fiduciary
position was for a bank. I handled charitable trusts, endowment funds,
private foundations (I gave away other people's money) and some really
interesting legally mandated trusts.

One group was cemeteries. The state required certain cemeteries to put
money in trust for each grave they dug. That way if the cemetery went
broke, there would be funds to maintain it. I was an auxiliary member
of the state cemetery association. They had a convention in Atlantic
City every year and I went. Boy those people know how to party!

Another was shipping trusts. Cargo ships had to maintain a US based
trust in case their ships did damage to our ports. I mostly dealt with
a Wall Street law firm on those and the fellows were just wonderful to
work with. I kept trying to buy them lunch on my expense account and
they always insisted they pay. They even offered me a great deal on a
Cunard sailing if I'd had wanted it. Wish I'd taken them up on it.

The most interesting was the "World War Three" trusts, an internal
nickname. These trusts held the patents and plans from a Swiss
pharmaceutical company in safe keeping in, of all places, Newark, NJ,
so they could not be stolen if someone invaded Switzerland. I'm not
kidding. They were closed before I left the bank, so I can speak about
them safely.






--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 8/11/2014 7:35 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:

> The most interesting was the "World War Three" trusts, an internal
> nickname. These trusts held the patents and plans from a Swiss
> pharmaceutical company in safe keeping in, of all places, Newark, NJ,
> so they could not be stolen if someone invaded Switzerland. I'm not
> kidding. They were closed before I left the bank, so I can speak about
> them safely.
>

If that's the pharmaceutical company I think it is, they've closed up
all/most of their NJ operation. A major blow to the area.