On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 16:47:51 -0600, squirts > wrote:

> In an Asian kitchen the woks are set on volcanic levels of flame,
> something no electric element and ring can mimic.

You're too used to gas. I'm sure if electric was the standard, those
"issues" would be moot.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:57:44 -0300, wrote:

> I own a condo and although the furnaces for heating have been
> converted, the option to cook with it is not available. I do own my
> condo which is my home, but gas for cooking is not available.

I'm pretty sure it would be if the homeowners were willing to pony up
the money to have the building retrofitted for gas. The problem is
that it would cost a boatload of money and be messy during the
process.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 20:47:48 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> Anyone who does a
> lot of cooking gets used to (and adapts to) the quirks of the
> stovetop/oven they use.

There you go again Jill. Practical as ever.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 21:01:10 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:57:44 -0300, wrote:
>>
>>> I own a condo and although the furnaces for heating have been
>>> converted, the option to cook with it is not available. I do own my
>>> condo which is my home, but gas for cooking is not available.
>>
>>I'm pretty sure it would be if the homeowners were willing to pony up
>>the money to have the building retrofitted for gas. The problem is
>>that it would cost a boatload of money and be messy during the
>>process.
>
> It would be ridiculously expensive ! There are 90 units, eight floors
> and it is all solid concrete. We maintain a wealthy reserve fund
> against unplanned expenses so it would have to come from a special
> assessment and I for one, would definitely vote against it based on
> cost and noise, even though I wouldn't mind having the gas.
>
> It's no different to home ownership, there will always be things you
> would like but which are impractical.

When I lived in Malta there was no piped gas on our side of the island so we
had tall tanks replaced every week of propane gas. They fitted nicely into
their places in the kitchen and bathroom and worked just fine.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 14:03:24 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
> wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 21:01:10 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:57:44 -0300, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I own a condo and although the furnaces for heating have been
>>>>> converted, the option to cook with it is not available. I do own my
>>>>> condo which is my home, but gas for cooking is not available.
>>>>
>>>>I'm pretty sure it would be if the homeowners were willing to pony up
>>>>the money to have the building retrofitted for gas. The problem is
>>>>that it would cost a boatload of money and be messy during the
>>>>process.
>>>
>>> It would be ridiculously expensive ! There are 90 units, eight floors
>>> and it is all solid concrete. We maintain a wealthy reserve fund
>>> against unplanned expenses so it would have to come from a special
>>> assessment and I for one, would definitely vote against it based on
>>> cost and noise, even though I wouldn't mind having the gas.
>>>
>>> It's no different to home ownership, there will always be things you
>>> would like but which are impractical.
>>
>>When I lived in Malta there was no piped gas on our side of the island so
>>we
>>had tall tanks replaced every week of propane gas. They fitted nicely
>>into
>>their places in the kitchen and bathroom and worked just fine.
>
> We can have BBQ propane tanks, out on the balconies I can't see where
> I would want to lose space to anything in my kitchen though. You get
> used to what you have and I have never had gas since we moved to
> Canada in 1967 so I am used to electric now We had gas for the
> fireplace at our last house but I wasn't about to replace the stove at
> that point.

These gas tanks were what everyone had, not just me.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 8/7/2014 8:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:

>>
>> I own a condo and although the furnaces for heating have been
>> converted, the option to cook with it is not available. I do own my
>> condo which is my home, but gas for cooking is not available.
>>
> It's not always easy to convert to something like propane nor does
> everyone necessarily have a good place to install the tank(s).
>
> The only place in my back yard to have a propane tank would be right
> outside my bedroom windows. Sorry, I do not want to look out the at a
> big metal tank. I also do not know how they'd be able to run the lines
> from the back of the house to the kitchen without a huge hassle.


Just because you "can" do something does not mean you should or that it
is the best idea. You can also run a propane line up to a 6th floor
apartment, but . . .

lucretiaborgia wrote:
>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>lucretiaborgia wrote:
>>>
>>>I wouldn't expect to see them in professional kitchens, they would use
>>>gas. So would I but it's not available.
>>
>>Why isn't gas available? If you own your own home gas is always
>>available.
>
>Not if gas lines are not available, which is the case in many places.

Propane gas lines would be installed by the propane company, for just
a cook stove shouldn't require more then 30 minutes tops... it's just
a flexible copper tube. I recently had a ventless propane heater
installed for heating a well house in case of an electrical outage,
two guys were in and out in under 20 minutes, they mounted the heater,
installed the propane tank, and connected the gas line. Ventless gas
heaters work well (99% efficient) and need no chimney or electric.
The new style 60 gallon tanks require very little space, that's more
than enough fuel to cook for a year:
http://i59.tinypic.com/6fteuf.jpg
That's a 10,000 BTU heater, more than enough to heat that tiny room,
just a shed on the back of a one car garage, when I had a tenant the
boiler heated that room:
http://i62.tinypic.com/ajmmvk.jpg
Normaly I use that electric heater because I have to pay a minimum to
keep that account anyway but there are sometimes power outages in
winter, the gas heater is only for when there's an outage:
http://i61.tinypic.com/20acl6h.jpg
The propane company I use did the installation for free, I paid for
the heater and the fuel in the tank.
If you need a nice quiet/private place to live it's available:
http://i61.tinypic.com/2005spc.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/1z6y35g.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/34y2pkz.jpg

On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:57:44 -0300, wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 10:32:18 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 8/7/2014 9:18 AM, wrote:
>>
>>>> Why isn't gas available? If you own your own home gas is always
>>>> available.
>>>
>>> Not if gas lines are not available, which is the case in many places.
>>>
>>
>>That is why we have propane. We h ave two 100# tanks and they fill them
>>once a year. Yesterday in fact, $164 for a year of cooking. We ditched
>>the electric range about 30 years ago and had propane installed.
>
>I own a condo and although the furnaces for heating have been
>converted, the option to cook with it is not available. I do own my
>condo which is my home, but gas for cooking is not available.

Furnaces converted... from what to what?

On 8/7/14, 10:32 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/7/2014 9:18 AM, wrote:
>> Not if gas lines are not available, which is the case in many places.
>
> That is why we have propane. We h ave two 100# tanks and they fill them
> once a year. Yesterday in fact, $164 for a year of cooking. We ditched
> the electric range about 30 years ago and had propane installed.

Of course (and I'm sure you know this, Ed) you must be aware that
because it's heavier than air, propane is much more dangerous than
natural gas.

This warrants special protective measures, particularly if you have a
basement...

-- Larry

On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 15:57:41 -0300, wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 13:33:59 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:57:44 -0300, wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 10:32:18 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 8/7/2014 9:18 AM, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Why isn't gas available? If you own your own home gas is always
>>>>>> available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not if gas lines are not available, which is the case in many places.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That is why we have propane. We h ave two 100# tanks and they fill them
>>>>once a year. Yesterday in fact, $164 for a year of cooking. We ditched
>>>>the electric range about 30 years ago and had propane installed.
>>>
>>>I own a condo and although the furnaces for heating have been
>>>converted, the option to cook with it is not available. I do own my
>>>condo which is my home, but gas for cooking is not available.
>>
>>Furnaces converted... from what to what?
>
>Obviously from oil to gas.

Nothing you wrote makes that obvious and I have a lot of talents but I
don't read minds... so what kind of gas... you are very poor at
supplying pertinent details. However if you're heating with gas then
you already have gas available for cooking. It's no big deal to snake
flex tubing from your furnace to anywhere in your condo unit. Often
the gas company would be happy to install the line for free, they'd
make more money selling you more gas. Truth is most likely you
probably don't want to spend for a gas stove... obviously... that's
the real reason why most people with electric stoves don't have gas
stoves... but they manufacture all sorts of fercocktah alibis about it
being too much trouble... the real trouble is they're misers who don't
realize that natural gas cooking over electric cooking will pay for
the new stove in a year or two, propane would take about five years to
pay for the new gas stove but pay for it nonetheless. Were it me in
your situation having gas cooking would be a no brainer. In fact when
I moved here one of the first things I did was to get rid of the last
owners electric stove and have propane installed so I could have gas
cooking. I also had the propane company retrofit the oil fired boiler
to propane; much cleaner, no schtink and no cleaning/maintaining. They
charged for the retrofit unit but not for the installation or gas
lines, even threw in a line for my Weber grill. And it was a big job
to install the 500 gallon propane tank and dig a 40 foot trench to
bury the line and to run gas lines throughout the house... a lot of
pricey fittings involved but cost me nothing... they were very happy
to sell me propane the past eleven years... I'm a very good customer,
all last winter my propane bill was more then $4,500 for heat,
cooking, and grilling, and they were never not paid as soon as the
bill arrived. I can understand if someone lives in a rented apartment
but the ONLY reason someone who lives in their own home who wants gas
cooking doesn't have it is because they are too cheap and and are in
hock because they don't pay their bills.

On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 15:09:19 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:

>On 8/7/14, 10:32 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 8/7/2014 9:18 AM, wrote:
>>> Not if gas lines are not available, which is the case in many places.
>>
>> That is why we have propane. We h ave two 100# tanks and they fill them
>> once a year. Yesterday in fact, $164 for a year of cooking. We ditched
>> the electric range about 30 years ago and had propane installed.
>
>Of course (and I'm sure you know this, Ed) you must be aware that
>because it's heavier than air, propane is much more dangerous than
>natural gas.
>
>This warrants special protective measures, particularly if you have a
>basement...

Bullshit! Gas tanks are outdoors. However electric cooking is much
more dangerous, with 220 Volts there are more fires and
electrocutions, residential gas explosions are relatively rare. And
most carbon monoxide issues are from wood stoves, oil heating, and of
course automobiles, very few are from gas cooking. Most issues
related to residential gas are attributed to gas clothes dryers, those
are not safe due to lint build up.

On 8/8/2014 3:09 PM, pltrgyst wrote:
> On 8/7/14, 10:32 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 8/7/2014 9:18 AM, wrote:
>>> Not if gas lines are not available, which is the case in many places.
>>
>> That is why we have propane. We h ave two 100# tanks and they fill them
>> once a year. Yesterday in fact, $164 for a year of cooking. We ditched
>> the electric range about 30 years ago and had propane installed.
>
> Of course (and I'm sure you know this, Ed) you must be aware that
> because it's heavier than air, propane is much more dangerous than
> natural gas.
>
> This warrants special protective measures, particularly if you have a
> basement...
>
> -- Larry
>

Correct. Jill mentioned the tank would have to go outside her window.
There are codes on how close to a window the tank can be.

On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 19:12:25 -0300, wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 18:08:16 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:
>>
>>Nothing you wrote makes that obvious and I have a lot of talents but I
>>don't read minds... so what kind of gas... you are very poor at
>>supplying pertinent details. However if you're heating with gas then
>>you already have gas available for cooking. It's no big deal to snake
>>flex tubing from your furnace to anywhere in your condo unit. Often
>>the gas company would be happy to install the line for free, they'd
>>make more money selling you more gas. Truth is most likely you
>>probably don't want to spend for a gas stove... obviously... that's
>>the real reason why most people with electric stoves don't have gas
>>stoves... but they manufacture all sorts of fercocktah alibis about it
>>being too much trouble... the real trouble is they're misers who don't
>>realize that natural gas cooking over electric cooking will pay for
>>the new stove in a year or two, propane would take about five years to
>>pay for the new gas stove but pay for it nonetheless. Were it me in
>>your situation having gas cooking would be a no brainer. In fact when
>>I moved here one of the first things I did was to get rid of the last
>>owners electric stove and have propane installed so I could have gas
>>cooking. I also had the propane company retrofit the oil fired boiler
>>to propane; much cleaner, no schtink and no cleaning/maintaining. They
>>charged for the retrofit unit but not for the installation or gas
>>lines, even threw in a line for my Weber grill. And it was a big job
>>to install the 500 gallon propane tank and dig a 40 foot trench to
>>bury the line and to run gas lines throughout the house... a lot of
>>pricey fittings involved but cost me nothing... they were very happy
>>to sell me propane the past eleven years... I'm a very good customer,
>>all last winter my propane bill was more then $4,500 for heat,
>>cooking, and grilling, and they were never not paid as soon as the
>>bill arrived. I can understand if someone lives in a rented apartment
>>but the ONLY reason someone who lives in their own home who wants gas
>>cooking doesn't have it is because they are too cheap and and are in
>>hock because they don't pay their bills.
>
>
>FOAD idiot !

Deadbeat!

On Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:32:18 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >
>
>
>
> That is why we have propane. We have two 100# tanks and they fill them
>
> once a year.

I'm curious - can you tell when you are running low? Or does the gas suddenly go off when you're stir frying or sump-thin. Is the 2nd tank your backup? will they fill them one at a time?

On 8/9/2014 10:21 AM, Kalmia wrote:
> On Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:32:18 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> That is why we have propane. We have two 100# tanks and they fill them
>> once a year.
>
> I'm curious - can you tell when you are running low? Or does the gas suddenly go off when you're stir frying or sump-thin. Is the 2nd tank your backup? will they fill them one at a time?
>
I have a pair of tanks, with an automatic switchover. When one runs out,
a red flag appears on it and the supply changes seamlessly to the full
tank. I then have plenty of time to arrange for refilling the empty one.

On 8/7/2014 9:58 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 16:47:51 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>
>> In an Asian kitchen the woks are set on volcanic levels of flame,
>> something no electric element and ring can mimic.
>
> You're too used to gas. I'm sure if electric was the standard, those
> "issues" would be moot.
>
I would ask you to show me how any electric element (s) can mimic a gas
wok blast ring.

On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 07:21:27 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:32:18 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> That is why we have propane. We have two 100# tanks and they fill them
>>
>> once a year.
>
>I'm curious - can you tell when you are running low?
>Or does the gas suddenly go off when you're stir frying
>or sump-thin. Is the 2nd tank your backup?

That's why two tanks, just like breast feeding. hehe

On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:00:37 -0600, squirts > wrote:

> On 8/7/2014 9:58 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 16:47:51 -0600, squirts > wrote:
> >
> >> In an Asian kitchen the woks are set on volcanic levels of flame,
> >> something no electric element and ring can mimic.
> >
> > You're too used to gas. I'm sure if electric was the standard, those
> > "issues" would be moot.
> >
> I would ask you to show me how any electric element (s) can mimic a gas
> wok blast ring.

I'll show you after electric is the standard in restaurants.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/9/2014 11:21 AM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:00:37 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>
>> On 8/7/2014 9:58 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 16:47:51 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>>>
>>>> In an Asian kitchen the woks are set on volcanic levels of flame,
>>>> something no electric element and ring can mimic.
>>>
>>> You're too used to gas. I'm sure if electric was the standard, those
>>> "issues" would be moot.
>>>
>> I would ask you to show me how any electric element (s) can mimic a gas
>> wok blast ring.
>
> I'll show you after electric is the standard in restaurants.
>
>
Sounds like I'm in for a very long wait ;-)

On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:56:33 -0600, squirts > wrote:

> On 8/9/2014 11:21 AM, sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:00:37 -0600, squirts > wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/7/2014 9:58 PM, sf wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 16:47:51 -0600, squirts > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In an Asian kitchen the woks are set on volcanic levels of flame,
> >>>> something no electric element and ring can mimic.
> >>>
> >>> You're too used to gas. I'm sure if electric was the standard, those
> >>> "issues" would be moot.
> >>>
> >> I would ask you to show me how any electric element (s) can mimic a gas
> >> wok blast ring.
> >
> > I'll show you after electric is the standard in restaurants.
> >
> >
> Sounds like I'm in for a very long wait ;-)

I wouldn't hold my breath!


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/9/2014 12:34 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:56:33 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>
>> On 8/9/2014 11:21 AM, sf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:00:37 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/7/2014 9:58 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 16:47:51 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In an Asian kitchen the woks are set on volcanic levels of flame,
>>>>>> something no electric element and ring can mimic.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're too used to gas. I'm sure if electric was the standard, those
>>>>> "issues" would be moot.
>>>>>
>>>> I would ask you to show me how any electric element (s) can mimic a gas
>>>> wok blast ring.
>>>
>>> I'll show you after electric is the standard in restaurants.
>>>
>>>
>> Sounds like I'm in for a very long wait ;-)
>
> I wouldn't hold my breath!
>
>
Meantime it's gas burner, ring and wok for me.

On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:56:33 -0600, squirts > wrote:

>On 8/9/2014 11:21 AM, sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:00:37 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/7/2014 9:58 PM, sf wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 16:47:51 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In an Asian kitchen the woks are set on volcanic levels of flame,
>>>>> something no electric element and ring can mimic.
>>>>
>>>> You're too used to gas. I'm sure if electric was the standard, those
>>>> "issues" would be moot.
>>>>
>>> I would ask you to show me how any electric element (s) can mimic a gas
>>> wok blast ring.
>>
>> I'll show you after electric is the standard in restaurants.
>>
>>
>Sounds like I'm in for a very long wait ;-)

'lectric is standard at sf's favorite dives, everything microwaved.

On 08/08/2014 5:00 AM, wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 20:11:39 -0500, Janet Wilder >
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/7/2014 5:02 PM, wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 12:00:06 -0500, Janet Wilder >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/7/2014 8:18 AM, wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:10:07 -0400, Brooklyn1
>>>>
>>>>>> Why isn't gas available? If you own your own home gas is always
>>>>>> available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not if gas lines are not available, which is the case in many places.
>>>>>
>>>> Exactly. If you live in the city or suburbs you will probably have gas
>>>> lines, but out in the country, there are none. That's why you see
>>>> propane tanks next to country homes.
>>>
>>> Yes, in the country I had propane, but in a condo, I am sure without
>>> looking, it would contravene by laws for obvious reasons.
>>>
>> beware of the "Condo Commandos" We owned a rental one and those old
>> biddies on the board were a royal PITA with their silly rules and
>> haphazard enforcement.
>
> We have a sort of 'constitution' which I read carefully before
> purchasing, as did my lawyer, and the rules are all sensible and
> there for a good reason. We have an elected board who oversee the
> running by a management company and by and large this is rated a very
> well organised building and there wouldn't be too much any individual
> could do to distort it. Most of the board members are male and
> although I might like to see a few more women, I can't deny they are
> doing an excellent job !
>
Are you or have you been a member of the board or run for election?

Graham

On 8/7/2014 6:01 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:57:44 -0300, wrote:
>
>> I own a condo and although the furnaces for heating have been
>> converted, the option to cook with it is not available. I do own my
>> condo which is my home, but gas for cooking is not available.
>
> I'm pretty sure it would be if the homeowners were willing to pony up
> the money to have the building retrofitted for gas. The problem is
> that it would cost a boatload of money and be messy during the
> process.
>

You're pretty much stuck with whatever is installed in your house. I
find gas is pretty unpleasant to use in this tropical setting. The main
advantage with gas is that it's dirt cheap and you're going to pay about
a third less for gas vs electric on your utility bill. When we replaced
the gas range in my in-law's condo, I told my son to pick out the
highest output range he could find. When I checked out the installed
stove, it was better than the old one but still kind of wimpy. That's
the brakes.

My guess is that induction ranges will be the standard range of the
future because of it's efficiency. All that needs to happen is the price
to drop down 50%. If you're getting a range for a scatterbrain cook that
tends to start grease fires, and induction range should be your first
choice because of it's inherent safety.

On 8/9/2014 1:24 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:56:33 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>
>> On 8/9/2014 11:21 AM, sf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:00:37 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/7/2014 9:58 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 16:47:51 -0600, squirts > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In an Asian kitchen the woks are set on volcanic levels of flame,
>>>>>> something no electric element and ring can mimic.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're too used to gas. I'm sure if electric was the standard, those
>>>>> "issues" would be moot.
>>>>>
>>>> I would ask you to show me how any electric element (s) can mimic a gas
>>>> wok blast ring.
>>>
>>> I'll show you after electric is the standard in restaurants.
>>>
>>>
>> Sounds like I'm in for a very long wait ;-)
>
> 'lectric is standard at sf's favorite dives, everything microwaved.
>
It's standard in sub shops too - toasted being the big deal now.

On 8/8/2014 1:00 AM, wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 20:11:39 -0500, Janet Wilder >
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/7/2014 5:02 PM, wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 12:00:06 -0500, Janet Wilder >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/7/2014 8:18 AM, wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:10:07 -0400, Brooklyn1
>>>>
>>>>>> Why isn't gas available? If you own your own home gas is always
>>>>>> available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not if gas lines are not available, which is the case in many places.
>>>>>
>>>> Exactly. If you live in the city or suburbs you will probably have gas
>>>> lines, but out in the country, there are none. That's why you see
>>>> propane tanks next to country homes.
>>>
>>> Yes, in the country I had propane, but in a condo, I am sure without
>>> looking, it would contravene by laws for obvious reasons.
>>>
>> beware of the "Condo Commandos" We owned a rental one and those old
>> biddies on the board were a royal PITA with their silly rules and
>> haphazard enforcement.
>
> We have a sort of 'constitution' which I read carefully before
> purchasing, as did my lawyer, and the rules are all sensible and
> there for a good reason. We have an elected board who oversee the
> running by a management company and by and large this is rated a very
> well organised building and there wouldn't be too much any individual
> could do to distort it. Most of the board members are male and
> although I might like to see a few more women, I can't deny they are
> doing an excellent job !


My wife's family used to be the resident manager of their condo so she
grew up taking care of the property. She grew up cleaning the pool and
climbing up to the roof to clean the filters and she and her parents and
whichever of her brothers were living at the place at the time
maintained the property well. Her dad was on the board and they kept the
maintenance fees low and had a tight rein on the association account.
The place was lucky to have my father-in-law looking after it.

When we moved into our condo, I joined the board straight away. I could
not believe how the monies were handled. The resident manager owned a
place and would rent out the association's unit and keep the cash. We
never did find out how much he was being paid. He would charge the
owners $500 to get rid of trash. My assumption was the manager and
management company were trying to hide some expenses because I never saw
a receipt for any of it.

The management company was in cahoots with the resident manager to milk
our cash cow of a condo. Our request for an account of our monies being
spent was met with stalling. In the end, we tried to get rid of the
management company and the resident manager but instead, we got got sued
and our asses kicked off the board. It was a big too-do. We had a big
meeting at a school cafeteria and there was cops standing by in case
there was trouble.

Hopefully, the next condo we move to will conduct business with better
practice standards.

>
> Ten years ago when I first bought and started going to meetings there
> seemed to be a group of old men at the meeting (they reminded me of
> the old men up in the balcony on Sesame Street!) and they never agreed
> with anything the board was trying to do, better brains prevailed but
> it was irritating listening to the old guys. However, they have now
> all moved on to other pastures, one way and another and meetings are
> good, quick and effective.
>
> I missed my garden a great deal and have basically taken over
> gardening ideas here and do the pots at the front door and oversee the
> garden company etc, everybody likes it and are complimentary and
> encouraging so that gives me a lot of pleasure to still garden but not
> have to mow or clear snow
>
> Very few units are rented but those that are remain the responsibility
> of the owner and they best make sure the tenant is in no way a
> problem. There are 90 units and we have a great variety of ages, all
> the way from elderly down to young career minded types buying the
> bachelor and one bedroom ones so they are getting started in the
> housing market. Most move out and sell when they find a partner and
> start a family, that too is good, this would not be a good place for
> kids. It is concrete built so sound does not travel but even so, kids
> running the halls or playing on the elevators would not be tolerated
>
> Our condos actually come under specific legislation by the Province,
> so it is pretty controlled but not so much it is 'irksome' lol
>

On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 15:01:35 -0600, squirts > wrote:

> On 8/9/2014 1:24 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:56:33 -0600, squirts > wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/9/2014 11:21 AM, sf wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 11:00:37 -0600, squirts > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 8/7/2014 9:58 PM, sf wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 16:47:51 -0600, squirts > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> In an Asian kitchen the woks are set on volcanic levels of flame,
> >>>>>> something no electric element and ring can mimic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You're too used to gas. I'm sure if electric was the standard, those
> >>>>> "issues" would be moot.
> >>>>>
> >>>> I would ask you to show me how any electric element (s) can mimic a gas
> >>>> wok blast ring.
> >>>
> >>> I'll show you after electric is the standard in restaurants.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Sounds like I'm in for a very long wait ;-)
> >
> > 'lectric is standard at sf's favorite dives, everything microwaved.
> >
> It's standard in sub shops too - toasted being the big deal now.

He wouldn't know a dive from a sh*t hole.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 10:47:28 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

> My guess is that induction ranges will be the standard range of the
> future because of it's efficiency. All that needs to happen is the price
> to drop down 50%.

I'd buy it.

I bought a dual fuel BBQ yesterday, but started having buyer's remorse
today - because I'm less than enthused about gas... so I was looking
at an infrared model today and thinking about getting that + a Weber.
Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who uses infrared, so I can't ask
about energy consumption and how it compares to charcoal when it comes
to searing.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/7/2014 5:08 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> I have always kept the lightweight plastic stuff over the stove. I keep
> stuff like cookie cutters/press and candy molds over the fridge because
> they are hard to get to and not often used.

I'm going to rearrange some things in my kitchen to better use my upper
cabinets for things I don't use as much. I need a better way to store
all of the medications and supplements I take because they take up a lot
of space and if they aren't handy, I find I skip taking some of them.

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

On 8/9/2014 7:47 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> On 8/7/2014 5:08 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> I have always kept the lightweight plastic stuff over the stove. I keep
>> stuff like cookie cutters/press and candy molds over the fridge because
>> they are hard to get to and not often used.
>
> I'm going to rearrange some things in my kitchen to better use my upper
> cabinets for things I don't use as much. I need a better way to store
> all of the medications and supplements I take because they take up a lot
> of space and if they aren't handy, I find I skip taking some of them.
>
One of those pill organizers might work well for you, Cheryl.

Jill

On 2014-08-09 20:06, jmcquown wrote:

>> I'm going to rearrange some things in my kitchen to better use my upper
>> cabinets for things I don't use as much. I need a better way to store
>> all of the medications and supplements I take because they take up a lot
>> of space and if they aren't handy, I find I skip taking some of them.
>>
> One of those pill organizers might work well for you, Cheryl.
>


I appreciate the value of a pill organizer. I had to use one when I was
taking a half dozen medications with various doses and frequency, but I
think her issue was cupboard space. She is still going to need room for
the medicine bottles.

On 8/9/2014 8:13 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2014-08-09 20:06, jmcquown wrote:
>
>>> I'm going to rearrange some things in my kitchen to better use my upper
>>> cabinets for things I don't use as much. I need a better way to store
>>> all of the medications and supplements I take because they take up a lot
>>> of space and if they aren't handy, I find I skip taking some of them.
>>>
>> One of those pill organizers might work well for you, Cheryl.
>>
>
>
> I appreciate the value of a pill organizer. I had to use one when I was
> taking a half dozen medications with various doses and frequency, but I
> think her issue was cupboard space. She is still going to need room for
> the medicine bottles.
>
True... but with an organizer they don't have to be stored in the
kitchen. I'm (hoping) guessing she might have a cabinet in the
bathroom, or at least a bathroom counter where the actual medicine
bottles could go.

Jill

On 8/9/2014 8:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/9/2014 8:13 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-08-09 20:06, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>>> I'm going to rearrange some things in my kitchen to better use my upper
>>>> cabinets for things I don't use as much. I need a better way to store
>>>> all of the medications and supplements I take because they take up a
>>>> lot
>>>> of space and if they aren't handy, I find I skip taking some of them.
>>>>
>>> One of those pill organizers might work well for you, Cheryl.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I appreciate the value of a pill organizer. I had to use one when I was
>> taking a half dozen medications with various doses and frequency, but I
>> think her issue was cupboard space. She is still going to need room for
>> the medicine bottles.
>>
> True... but with an organizer they don't have to be stored in the
> kitchen. I'm (hoping) guessing she might have a cabinet in the
> bathroom, or at least a bathroom counter where the actual medicine
> bottles could go.
>
> Jill

Actually you have to be careful about storing meds in a bathroom. You
need to make sure that the heat from a shower won't get too near the
meds as it can spoil them. It's not a good idea to put them on an
outside wall, either, especially in the summer. The counter is probably
the worst place as they will be more exposed to temperature changes.

My bathroom has a huge cabinet on an inside wall and away from the
shower. It's actually behind the ceiling vent fan.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 8/9/2014 9:31 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 8/9/2014 8:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 8/9/2014 8:13 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2014-08-09 20:06, jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I'm going to rearrange some things in my kitchen to better use my
>>>>> upper
>>>>> cabinets for things I don't use as much. I need a better way to store
>>>>> all of the medications and supplements I take because they take up a
>>>>> lot
>>>>> of space and if they aren't handy, I find I skip taking some of them.
>>>>>
>>>> One of those pill organizers might work well for you, Cheryl.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I appreciate the value of a pill organizer. I had to use one when I was
>>> taking a half dozen medications with various doses and frequency, but I
>>> think her issue was cupboard space. She is still going to need room for
>>> the medicine bottles.
>>>
>> True... but with an organizer they don't have to be stored in the
>> kitchen. I'm (hoping) guessing she might have a cabinet in the
>> bathroom, or at least a bathroom counter where the actual medicine
>> bottles could go.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Actually you have to be careful about storing meds in a bathroom. You
> need to make sure that the heat from a shower won't get too near the
> meds as it can spoil them. It's not a good idea to put them on an
> outside wall, either, especially in the summer. The counter is probably
> the worst place as they will be more exposed to temperature changes.
>
> My bathroom has a huge cabinet on an inside wall and away from the
> shower. It's actually behind the ceiling vent fan.
>
Thanks for the clarification, Janet. I don't take any prescription
medications but the pill organizer worked for my mother. She also
stored her pill bottles in the kitchen, but not above the stove. She
couldn't have reached them! I guess it depends on your kitchen layout.

Jill

On 8/9/2014 10:21 AM, Kalmia wrote:
> On Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:32:18 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That is why we have propane. We have two 100# tanks and they fill them
>>
>> once a year.
>
> I'm curious - can you tell when you are running low? Or does the gas suddenly go off when you're stir frying or sump-thin. Is the 2nd tank your backup? will they fill them one at a time?
>

It runs on one and switches over automatically. In a year I use about
100 to 120 pounds so I have a good reserve. If you run out, you get
little warning but in 30 years I ran out once about 10 years ago. The
propane company has since revised the delivery schedule so they come at
least once a year.

On 8/9/2014 12:17 PM, wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 10:47:28 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> On 8/7/2014 6:01 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:57:44 -0300, wrote:
>>>
>>>> I own a condo and although the furnaces for heating have been
>>>> converted, the option to cook with it is not available. I do own my
>>>> condo which is my home, but gas for cooking is not available.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure it would be if the homeowners were willing to pony up
>>> the money to have the building retrofitted for gas. The problem is
>>> that it would cost a boatload of money and be messy during the
>>> process.
>>>
>>
>> You're pretty much stuck with whatever is installed in your house. I
>> find gas is pretty unpleasant to use in this tropical setting. The main
>> advantage with gas is that it's dirt cheap and you're going to pay about
>> a third less for gas vs electric on your utility bill. When we replaced
>> the gas range in my in-law's condo, I told my son to pick out the
>> highest output range he could find. When I checked out the installed
>> stove, it was better than the old one but still kind of wimpy. That's
>> the brakes.
>>
>> My guess is that induction ranges will be the standard range of the
>> future because of it's efficiency. All that needs to happen is the price
>> to drop down 50%. If you're getting a range for a scatterbrain cook that
>> tends to start grease fires, and induction range should be your first
>> choice because of it's inherent safety.
>
> Money doesn't really enter the picture - my power bill is about $30
> per month - which seems not unreasonable to me.

It's quite reasonable. Our electric bill is easily 4 or 5 times that.

>
> The cost to run gas to my unit would be more than I can ever save in
> my lifetime, plus I doubt that it would be allowed. If it had to come
> from the furnace room it would have to come through three thick
> concrete floors before it even arrived here, $$$$s.
>

I fully understand your position. We really don't have a choice in these
matters.

On 8/9/2014 1:31 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 10:47:28 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> My guess is that induction ranges will be the standard range of the
>> future because of it's efficiency. All that needs to happen is the price
>> to drop down 50%.
>
> I'd buy it.
>
> I bought a dual fuel BBQ yesterday, but started having buyer's remorse
> today - because I'm less than enthused about gas... so I was looking
> at an infrared model today and thinking about getting that + a Weber.
> Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who uses infrared, so I can't ask
> about energy consumption and how it compares to charcoal when it comes
> to searing.
>
>

I'm pretty ignorant about those things. I grew up using one of those
little hibachis. Now that's what I call "Mickey Mouse."

On 8/9/2014 1:31 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 10:47:28 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> My guess is that induction ranges will be the standard range of the
>> future because of it's efficiency. All that needs to happen is the price
>> to drop down 50%.
>
> I'd buy it.

The "burners" on these ranges are simple coils of wire. How expensive
could coils of wires be? My guess is - pretty cheap.

>
> I bought a dual fuel BBQ yesterday, but started having buyer's remorse
> today - because I'm less than enthused about gas... so I was looking
> at an infrared model today and thinking about getting that + a Weber.
> Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who uses infrared, so I can't ask
> about energy consumption and how it compares to charcoal when it comes
> to searing.
>
>

On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 17:28:32 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

> I'm pretty ignorant about those things. I grew up using one of those
> little hibachis. Now that's what I call "Mickey Mouse."

I think a hibachi was the introduction that most people our age (on
the West Coast and Hawaii) had to barbecuing. I know it was mine and
most of my friends who are natives. It fit neatly on apartment fire
escapes and lived there with our plants. Fire escapes were the poor
man's balcony back in the day.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 17:15:41 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

> > Money doesn't really enter the picture - my power bill is about $30
> > per month - which seems not unreasonable to me.
>
> It's quite reasonable. Our electric bill is easily 4 or 5 times that.

Ditto. Total power use for gas and electric averages around $120 in
the summer and it climbs to around $200 in the winter (because it's
colder, so we use the furnace more and the days are shorter, so we use
more electricity). Of course, rates keep climbing - so as we try to
use less, it seems our bills remain the same or we are charged more.
Our electric usage did drop dramatically when we switched the cooktop
over to gas, but like I said - rates keep climbing.

I remember we were in a second floor apartment when we were first
married and we paid whatever the minimum rate for PG&E was at the time
(less than $10) even though the kitchen was all electric. We rarely
turned the heat on (sandwiched like that) and it was a corner unit, so
there was lots of natural light. It was my favorite place ever. It
had a roomy balcony, so I put the table out there and we ate all of
our meals outside unless it was the middle of winter (when I moved the
table inside the sliding glass doors).


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.