"David E. Ross" > wrote in message
...

> I buy whole wheat raw pizza dough at Trader Joe's. My doctor wants me
> to use complex carbohydrates -- whole wheat instead of white -- because
> of my type-2 diabetes. Before rolling the dough, I pick a branch of
> rosemary about 12 inches long, strip the leaves, and finely chop the
> leaves in a miniature food processes. During the initial rolling of the
> dough, I sprinkler the rosemary on it and then fold the dough in thirds.
> Rolling the dough at right angles, I repeat the rosemary and folding.
>
> I use a perforated steel pizza pan. Applying a very thin coating of
> olive oil on one side of the rolled and stretched dough -- oiling my
> hands and then rubbing the dough -- I place the dough on the pizza pan
> with the oiled side down. I bake just the dough at 475F (the
> temperature on the dough's package) for 6-8 minutes. This pre-baking
> prevents soggy crust. Taking the dough out of the oven, I apply the
> toppings, using marinara sauce instead of pizza sauce. I then bake the
> assembled pizza another 8-10 minutes, still at 475F.

I make my own dough and use whole wheat flour as we prefer it. I always pre
bake too to prevent a soggy crust. I haven't added herbs though so I might
try that.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 8/12/14, 3:53 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote
>> Beats the heck out of me. My guess is that this product will be
>> unsuccessful in the marketplace and won't be around for long. Enjoy it
>> while it lasts!
>
> Nonsense. Pizza dough has been around for as long as I can remember.

Publix grocery stores sell fresh pizza dough for $1.79/lb., made daily,
and have done so for at least eight years (when my brother started
working for them). It's available from a chilled cabinet near the deli
section.

It's not our homemade, but it does make a nice very thin pizza.

-- Larry

On 8/12/2014 9:07 AM, pltrgyst wrote:
> On 8/12/14, 3:53 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "dsi1" > wrote
>>> Beats the heck out of me. My guess is that this product will be
>>> unsuccessful in the marketplace and won't be around for long. Enjoy it
>>> while it lasts!
>>
>> Nonsense. Pizza dough has been around for as long as I can remember.
>
> Publix grocery stores sell fresh pizza dough for $1.79/lb., made daily,
> and have done so for at least eight years (when my brother started
> working for them). It's available from a chilled cabinet near the deli
> section.
>
> It's not our homemade, but it does make a nice very thin pizza.
>
> -- Larry
>
Yep, Publix (supermarket) sells freshly made dough. The deli is near
the bakery section, so it makes sense. I could also buy dough from a
local pizzaria called The Upper Crust. I'm just not interested enough
in pizza to bother.

Jill

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 01:14:22 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> We don't have the same grocery stores but I know I can buy pizza dough
> at Publix. I haven't done so since I'm not a big pizza fan. That
> doesn't mean I won't get the urge in the future.

Let's put it this way: if you ever do get the urge, you won't have the
dough making process standing in your way. LOL

I often make dough and freeze it, so I can take it out when I'm in a
lazy mood but jonesing for pizza... unfortunately, my freezer is so
stuffed at the moment that I had a hard time jamming in my new bag of
abg (already been ground) coffee in there.

If anyone is feeling the impulse, please refrain from lecturing me
about storing coffee in the freezer or grinding my beans in the store.
You do it your way and I'll do it mine.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:31:40 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

> I make my own dough and use whole wheat flour as we prefer it. I always pre
> bake too to prevent a soggy crust. I haven't added herbs though so I might
> try that.

I don't understand this prebaking of a crust. How thick IS it? Don't
you use the highest temperature setting on your oven?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:05:55 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 8/11/2014 9:53 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Nonsense. Pizza dough has been around for as long as I can remember.
> >
> > That stuff never sold over here. I've always had to make my own dough. No
> > doubt I would have grabbed that product the first time I spotted it. Come
> > to think of it, I did.
>
> Really? In areas where there is a high Italian population, it is commonly
> sold. <snip>

He's in Hawaii, not a big Italian influence over there.
>
> I think grocery store pizza dough is fairly new here.

Now you're back on track - talking about the same thing he's talking
about.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 01:49:04 -0500, Janet Wilder >
wrote:

>
> My favorite local pizzaria is owned by a fellow who learned his craft in
> New Jersey. I can always go in the shop and buy a ball of pizza dough.
> In New Jersey most non-chain pizza parlors will sell you a ball of dough.

Everybody here knows that, but they aren't going to traipse around
town to their favorite pizzeria when they can buy decent premade at
the grocery store.
>
> I have a good FP dough recipe, but I like this guy's dough better.

Hm. Time to stop following that recipe verbatim and put your own spin
on it.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/12/2014 2:09 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 01:14:22 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> We don't have the same grocery stores but I know I can buy pizza dough
>> at Publix. I haven't done so since I'm not a big pizza fan. That
>> doesn't mean I won't get the urge in the future.
>
> Let's put it this way: if you ever do get the urge, you won't have the
> dough making process standing in your way. LOL
>
Okey doke. I've made pizza dough in the past. Thick and thin crust.
Making it from scratch wouldn't stand in my way. Driving all the way to
Publix to buy pizza dough might. LOL

Jill

On 8/11/2014 11:05 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 8/11/2014 9:53 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Nonsense. Pizza dough has been around for as long as I can remember.
>>
>> That stuff never sold over here. I've always had to make my own dough.
>> No doubt I would have grabbed that product the first time I spotted
>> it. Come to think of it, I did.
>
> Really? In areas where there is a high Italian population, it is
> commonly sold. When I worked at K Mart, we had a weird little bakery at
> the end of the building for a while. Probably mid 1980's. I don't
> recall them selling any sweets like cookies. But they did have some
> sweet bagels. They had all kinds of rolls, bread, bagels and pizza dough.
>
> I think grocery store pizza dough is fairly new here. Perhaps in the
> past 5 years or so or perhaps it was just there and I never noticed it.
> Pillsbury dough in a tube has been around for yonks. I've tried it.
> It's okay. But I'm not big on pizza.

People are not into making pizza here. We love pizza but would rather
get it at a restaurant or have it delivered or stick a frozen one in the
oven. I make my own because I'm cheap and I cook. My guess is that you'd
probably haven's seen any taro leaves sold in your neck of the woods and
yet I can get it in the local stores. At Safeway, however, there are no
taro leaves to be found.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 08:40:34 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

> On 8/11/2014 11:05 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >
> > "dsi1" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On 8/11/2014 9:53 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Nonsense. Pizza dough has been around for as long as I can remember.
> >>
> >> That stuff never sold over here. I've always had to make my own dough.
> >> No doubt I would have grabbed that product the first time I spotted
> >> it. Come to think of it, I did.
> >
<snip>
> >
> > I think grocery store pizza dough is fairly new here. Perhaps in the
> > past 5 years or so or perhaps it was just there and I never noticed it.
> > Pillsbury dough in a tube has been around for yonks. I've tried it.
> > It's okay. But I'm not big on pizza.
>
> People are not into making pizza here. We love pizza but would rather
> get it at a restaurant or have it delivered or stick a frozen one in the
> oven. I make my own because I'm cheap and I cook. My guess is that you'd
> probably haven's seen any taro leaves sold in your neck of the woods and
> yet I can get it in the local stores. At Safeway, however, there are no
> taro leaves to be found.

There soon will be. I've noticed they are selling more items that
would interest their local customer base since the merger. The fresh
vegetable section at the one closest to me has increased the scope of
their Asian (Chinese/SE Asian) vegetable selection and I see
vegetables I've only seen at Chinese groceries. Wish they had a
broader selection of eggplants but we don't have a big enough Indian
community to merit that. I need to think "eggplant" when I'm in a
Safeway on the other side of the Bay - where there IS a big enough
Indian population for them to do it.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:31:40 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>> I make my own dough and use whole wheat flour as we prefer it. I always
>> pre
>> bake too to prevent a soggy crust. I haven't added herbs though so I
>> might
>> try that.
>
> I don't understand this prebaking of a crust. How thick IS it? Don't
> you use the highest temperature setting on your oven?

He likes a thick base No, not the highest temp.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 8/12/2014 1:40 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 8/11/2014 11:05 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 8/11/2014 9:53 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nonsense. Pizza dough has been around for as long as I can remember.
>>>
>>> That stuff never sold over here. I've always had to make my own dough.
>>> No doubt I would have grabbed that product the first time I spotted
>>> it. Come to think of it, I did.
>>
>> Really? In areas where there is a high Italian population, it is
>> commonly sold. When I worked at K Mart, we had a weird little bakery at
>> the end of the building for a while. Probably mid 1980's. I don't
>> recall them selling any sweets like cookies. But they did have some
>> sweet bagels. They had all kinds of rolls, bread, bagels and pizza
>> dough.
>>
>> I think grocery store pizza dough is fairly new here. Perhaps in the
>> past 5 years or so or perhaps it was just there and I never noticed it.
>> Pillsbury dough in a tube has been around for yonks. I've tried it.
>> It's okay. But I'm not big on pizza.
>
> People are not into making pizza here. We love pizza but would rather
> get it at a restaurant or have it delivered or stick a frozen one in the
> oven. I make my own because I'm cheap and I cook. My guess is that you'd
> probably haven's seen any taro leaves sold in your neck of the woods and
> yet I can get it in the local stores. At Safeway, however, there are no
> taro leaves to be found.

You can find banana leaves here, but I do not recall seeing taro leaves.

Becca

Mayo wrote:
>David E. Ross wrote:
>>
>> I use a perforated steel pizza pan. Applying a very thin coating of
>> olive oil on one side of the rolled and stretched dough -- oiling my
>> hands and then rubbing the dough -- I place the dough on the pizza pan
>> with the oiled side down. I bake just the dough at 475F (the
>> temperature on the dough's package) for 6-8 minutes. This pre-baking
>> prevents soggy crust. Taking the dough out of the oven, I apply the
>> toppings, using marinara sauce instead of pizza sauce. I then bake the
>> assembled pizza another 8-10 minutes, still at 475F.
>>
>That sounds like a well-sorted process. Plenty of pizza joints use
>perforated pans so they must be another good way to go.

I've been advocating perforated pizza pans here for many years,
produces much better pizza than those steenkin' stones because it is
not possible to duplicate a brick oven with a residential stove...
slap a raw pizza on a pizza stone and quick as a blink the steam
produced drops the stone surface temp to that of boiling water. A
real pizza oven has the heating elements embedded in the fire brick so
recovery is quick, a cooled pizza stone in an ordinary residential
oven takes too long to recover, in fact the toppings will begin to
burn before the stone surface comes back up to heat. Most of today's
pizza parlors use pizza screens, you can see the hatch marks on the
underside of the pie. I prefer perforated pans for a home oven,
they're rigid so no peel is needed, also great for baking pizza in my
Weber. Also serving the pie atop the perforated pan greatly reduces
condensation on the crust underside... can slice pizza on a perforated
pan, not on screen. I've been using my Chicago Metallic perforated
pan set more than 25 years, still good as new. I never had to oil it,
never thought to. The set comes with a deep dish pizza pan that the
perforated pan fits nicely on top, keeps condensation to a minimum.
That's the killer of pizza crust, placed on a regular pan or in a
cardboard box makes the crust soggy. I don't care for deep dish pizza
(more a caserole) but that pan is perfect for baking sticky buns.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:41:18 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:05:22 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:50:29 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 10:51:21 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>
>>> snip
>>> >
>>> >Yes, 550 if the dial is to be believed. I've never measured it
>>> >though. No convect, just straight bake. I want my heat from the
>>> >bottom, not circulating.
>>>
>>> convect is handy if you load up a pizza with wet stuff like tomatoes,
>>> mushrooms, onions, peppers etc. The convect not only cooks the
>>> vegetables but it helps to dry the top so there isn't a puddle
>>
>>I prefer minimal toppings, not much meat and nothing wet. The wettest
>>I go is an egg on top... I'll try to remember convect when I do that
>>next time. I want my egg runny and my crust cooked just the way I
>>like it - so I'm having a hard time imagining convect would work for
>>me.
>
>Ah, no. No egg, please. I know that it is done but I can't get a
>handle on it.
>Janet US

Pizza topped with eggs makes it pig slop... no wonder sf's ass is so
gross... I wouldn't be surprised if she has a little squiggly
appendage. LOL-LOL

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 01:14:22 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> We don't have the same grocery stores but I know I can buy pizza dough
>> at Publix. I haven't done so since I'm not a big pizza fan. That
>> doesn't mean I won't get the urge in the future.
>
> Let's put it this way: if you ever do get the urge, you won't have the
> dough making process standing in your way. LOL
>
> I often make dough and freeze it, so I can take it out when I'm in a
> lazy mood but jonesing for pizza... unfortunately, my freezer is so
> stuffed at the moment that I had a hard time jamming in my new bag of
> abg (already been ground) coffee in there.
>
> If anyone is feeling the impulse, please refrain from lecturing me
> about storing coffee in the freezer or grinding my beans in the store.
> You do it your way and I'll do it mine.

I won't argue with that


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

sf wrote:
>
>I often make dough and freeze it, so I can take it out when I'm in a
>lazy mood but jonesing for pizza.

Then you may as well buy frozen pizza and add more toppings of your
choice.

Stupidmarket dough was already frozen once from the factory, it's
delivered frozen, now freezing it a second time may as well buy frozen
pizza, at least it's never been defrosted until it's baked. Today's
premium frozen pizza is as good if not better than typical pizzaria
pies because they use previously frozen dough too... and nothing
prevents adding one's own toppings. And that's another thing,
pizzaria toppings are crap, the lowest quality ingredients possible,
left unrefrigerated for many hours and skimpily applied to boot... not
to mention everything handled by unwashed shithouse fingers... frozen
pizza is produced robotically in practically laboratory cleanroom
conditions, cleaner than anyone can at home. Very few pizzarias make
their own dough anymore either, they have it delivered from their
wholesaler, scaled and frozen. Defrosting dough makes it poorer
quality than frozen pizza dough that's never been defrosted until
baked. If you want home made pizza then make your own dough and bake
it without freezing it... defrosted dough is crap, defrosted twice
like stupidmarket dough makes it doubley crap. And frozen pizza is
flash frozen, far better than what can be done with a home freezer
with the TIAD dough you bring home from the stupidmarket. Occasionally
I'll make from scratch homemade pizza but today's premium frozen
pizzas are excellent, inexpensive, but mostly readily available
whenever one gets the urge, 40 minutes after thinking about it you're
eating, even if three in the AM. I'm still thinking of a Spam pie,
gonna do it next.

On 8/12/2014 2:34 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Mayo wrote:
>> David E. Ross wrote:
>>>
>>> I use a perforated steel pizza pan. Applying a very thin coating of
>>> olive oil on one side of the rolled and stretched dough -- oiling my
>>> hands and then rubbing the dough -- I place the dough on the pizza pan
>>> with the oiled side down. I bake just the dough at 475F (the
>>> temperature on the dough's package) for 6-8 minutes. This pre-baking
>>> prevents soggy crust. Taking the dough out of the oven, I apply the
>>> toppings, using marinara sauce instead of pizza sauce. I then bake the
>>> assembled pizza another 8-10 minutes, still at 475F.
>>>
>> That sounds like a well-sorted process. Plenty of pizza joints use
>> perforated pans so they must be another good way to go.
>
> I've been advocating perforated pizza pans here for many years,
> produces much better pizza than those steenkin' stones because it is
> not possible to duplicate a brick oven with a residential stove...
> slap a raw pizza on a pizza stone and quick as a blink the steam
> produced drops the stone surface temp to that of boiling water. A
> real pizza oven has the heating elements embedded in the fire brick so
> recovery is quick, a cooled pizza stone in an ordinary residential
> oven takes too long to recover, in fact the toppings will begin to
> burn before the stone surface comes back up to heat. Most of today's
> pizza parlors use pizza screens, you can see the hatch marks on the
> underside of the pie. I prefer perforated pans for a home oven,
> they're rigid so no peel is needed, also great for baking pizza in my
> Weber. Also serving the pie atop the perforated pan greatly reduces
> condensation on the crust underside... can slice pizza on a perforated
> pan, not on screen. I've been using my Chicago Metallic perforated
> pan set more than 25 years, still good as new. I never had to oil it,
> never thought to. The set comes with a deep dish pizza pan that the
> perforated pan fits nicely on top, keeps condensation to a minimum.
> That's the killer of pizza crust, placed on a regular pan or in a
> cardboard box makes the crust soggy. I don't care for deep dish pizza
> (more a caserole) but that pan is perfect for baking sticky buns.
>
That's a fantastic analysis - thank you.

I use a perforated steel pan for all my grille pizzas, never any
complaints and I can get the wood flavor in with chips.

But I get great results inside on my stone as well.

To avoid overcooking the top I generally start unloaded for a few
minutes, then add sauce and toppings.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 8/11/2014 11:05 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 8/11/2014 9:53 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nonsense. Pizza dough has been around for as long as I can remember.
>>>
>>> That stuff never sold over here. I've always had to make my own dough.
>>> No doubt I would have grabbed that product the first time I spotted
>>> it. Come to think of it, I did.
>>
>> Really? In areas where there is a high Italian population, it is
>> commonly sold. When I worked at K Mart, we had a weird little bakery at
>> the end of the building for a while. Probably mid 1980's. I don't
>> recall them selling any sweets like cookies. But they did have some
>> sweet bagels. They had all kinds of rolls, bread, bagels and pizza
>> dough.
>>
>> I think grocery store pizza dough is fairly new here. Perhaps in the
>> past 5 years or so or perhaps it was just there and I never noticed it.
>> Pillsbury dough in a tube has been around for yonks. I've tried it.
>> It's okay. But I'm not big on pizza.
>
> People are not into making pizza here. We love pizza but would rather get
> it at a restaurant or have it delivered or stick a frozen one in the oven.
> I make my own because I'm cheap and I cook. My guess is that you'd
> probably haven's seen any taro leaves sold in your neck of the woods and
> yet I can get it in the local stores. At Safeway, however, there are no
> taro leaves to be found.

I think that's how people are here.

"sf" > wrote
> If anyone is feeling the impulse, please refrain from lecturing me
> about storing coffee in the freezer or grinding my beans in the store.

How about the inadvisability of freezing ground coffee?

> You do it your way and I'll do it mine.

Oh, OK. Then the question becomes why do you hang around a cooking
newsgroup?

-- Larry

On 8/12/2014 2:34 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> I've been advocating perforated pizza pans here for many years,
> produces much better pizza than those steenkin' stones because it is
> not possible to duplicate a brick oven with a residential stove...

You can't get 900 deg F+, but you can get 600 in many residential ovens,
and 775 on an outdoor gas grill. Add a second pizza stone four inches
above your main one, and you're pretty damned close.

> ... a raw pizza on a pizza stone and quick as a blink the steam
> produced drops the stone surface temp to that of boiling water.

That's pure bull shit, even without corn meal or parchment paper.

> A real pizza oven has the heating elements embedded in the fire brick...

The best "real" commercial pizza ovens are wood-fired, and have no such
elements.

Why do you people read and quote this dumbkopf?

-- Larry

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:22:12 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:

> "sf" > wrote
> > If anyone is feeling the impulse, please refrain from lecturing me
> > about storing coffee in the freezer or grinding my beans in the store.
>
> How about the inadvisability of freezing ground coffee?

Why does that bother you that I reject that opinion?
>
> > You do it your way and I'll do it mine.
>
> Oh, OK. Then the question becomes why do you hang around a cooking
> newsgroup?
>
It had been discussed to death and I prefer my way. What's it to you?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:46:35 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> To avoid overcooking the top I generally start unloaded for a few
> minutes, then add sauce and toppings.

That's very odd to me. How long do you heat your stone? How thick
is your crust???


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:22:17 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:

> Why do you people read and quote this dumbkopf?

Amen.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:50:29 -0600 in rec.food.cooking, Janet
Bostwick > wrote,
>convect is handy if you load up a pizza with wet stuff like tomatoes,
>mushrooms, onions, peppers etc. The convect not only cooks the
>vegetables but it helps to dry the top so there isn't a puddle

That would be good. I only make a pizza once every couple of years,
and I always want to put two years worth of toppings on it.

On 8/12/2014 8:22 PM, pltrgyst wrote:
> On 8/12/2014 2:34 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> I've been advocating perforated pizza pans here for many years,
>> produces much better pizza than those steenkin' stones because it is
>> not possible to duplicate a brick oven with a residential stove...
>
> You can't get 900 deg F+, but you can get 600 in many residential ovens,
> and 775 on an outdoor gas grill. Add a second pizza stone four inches
> above your main one, and you're pretty damned close.
>
>> ... a raw pizza on a pizza stone and quick as a blink the steam
>> produced drops the stone surface temp to that of boiling water.
>
> That's pure bull shit, even without corn meal or parchment paper.
>
>> A real pizza oven has the heating elements embedded in the fire brick...
>
> The best "real" commercial pizza ovens are wood-fired, and have no such
> elements.
>
> Why do you people read and quote this dumbkopf?
>
> -- Larry
>

He has a point in that a commercial brick oven gets a thermal mass
heating that exceeds any home stone.

On 8/12/2014 9:31 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:22:12 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:
>
>> "sf" > wrote
>>> If anyone is feeling the impulse, please refrain from lecturing me
>>> about storing coffee in the freezer or grinding my beans in the store.
>>
>> How about the inadvisability of freezing ground coffee?
>
> Why does that bother you that I reject that opinion?

Why is it inadvisable?

Does it get ice crystals?

>>
>>> You do it your way and I'll do it mine.
>>
>> Oh, OK. Then the question becomes why do you hang around a cooking
>> newsgroup?
>>
> It had been discussed to death and I prefer my way. What's it to you?
>
>

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:38:53 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> On 8/12/2014 8:22 PM, pltrgyst wrote:
> > On 8/12/2014 2:34 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >
> >> I've been advocating perforated pizza pans here for many years,
> >> produces much better pizza than those steenkin' stones because it is
> >> not possible to duplicate a brick oven with a residential stove...
> >
> > You can't get 900 deg F+, but you can get 600 in many residential ovens,
> > and 775 on an outdoor gas grill. Add a second pizza stone four inches
> > above your main one, and you're pretty damned close.
> >
> >> ... a raw pizza on a pizza stone and quick as a blink the steam
> >> produced drops the stone surface temp to that of boiling water.
> >
> > That's pure bull shit, even without corn meal or parchment paper.
> >
> >> A real pizza oven has the heating elements embedded in the fire brick...
> >
> > The best "real" commercial pizza ovens are wood-fired, and have no such
> > elements.
> >
> > Why do you people read and quote this dumbkopf?
> >
> > -- Larry
> >
>
> He has a point in that a commercial brick oven gets a thermal mass
> heating that exceeds any home stone.

Yet a home stone does an excellent job when properly heated.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/12/2014 11:11 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:38:53 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> On 8/12/2014 8:22 PM, pltrgyst wrote:
>>> On 8/12/2014 2:34 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been advocating perforated pizza pans here for many years,
>>>> produces much better pizza than those steenkin' stones because it is
>>>> not possible to duplicate a brick oven with a residential stove...
>>>
>>> You can't get 900 deg F+, but you can get 600 in many residential ovens,
>>> and 775 on an outdoor gas grill. Add a second pizza stone four inches
>>> above your main one, and you're pretty damned close.
>>>
>>>> ... a raw pizza on a pizza stone and quick as a blink the steam
>>>> produced drops the stone surface temp to that of boiling water.
>>>
>>> That's pure bull shit, even without corn meal or parchment paper.
>>>
>>>> A real pizza oven has the heating elements embedded in the fire brick...
>>>
>>> The best "real" commercial pizza ovens are wood-fired, and have no such
>>> elements.
>>>
>>> Why do you people read and quote this dumbkopf?
>>>
>>> -- Larry
>>>
>>
>> He has a point in that a commercial brick oven gets a thermal mass
>> heating that exceeds any home stone.
>
> Yet a home stone does an excellent job when properly heated.
>
>
Mine does, but I let it pre-heat for a good half hour.

On the grille that perforated porcelain pan I use is flawless.

Hey, it's fresh pizza - hard to mess that up.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:34:06 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:46:35 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> To avoid overcooking the top I generally start unloaded for a few
>> minutes, then add sauce and toppings.
>
>That's very odd to me. How long do you heat your stone? How thick
>is your crust???

I got a new oven about a year ago and quickly discovered that I had to
be more aware of heating. My old oven heated from an open coil on the
bottom of the oven. My new oven alternates between bottom and top to
maintain heat. Actually, new oven has a pizza setting that alternates
top and bottom and uses convection. With my old oven I could easily
overcook the top before the bottom was done.
I wonder if pizzerias ever 'turn' the oven off. Real brick ovens can
take 18 hours to heat. That's why they can cook a pizza in 7 minutes
Janet US

On 8/13/14, 12:38 AM, Mayo wrote:

> He has a point in that a commercial brick oven gets a thermal mass
> heating that exceeds any home stone.

Of course they do -- and they're cooking multiple pizzas at a time,
pretty much non-stop.

-- Larry

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:37:18 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> Actually, new oven has a pizza setting that alternates
> top and bottom and uses convection.

I would hate that, but that's me.

> I wonder if pizzerias ever 'turn' the oven off.

The wood fired brick ovens I've seen let the fire become coals, but
they always rekindle before they lose too much heat. The one
restaurant I go to with their gas fired oven (that looks like a brick
oven) out in open view keeps the flame on. When they aren't busy,
I've seen them block the opening - but I bet the flame is not off,
it's on enough to keep the oven at baking temp. Pizzerias with
regular rectangular ovens might close their doors too, but I bet they
never let the temperature go down either.

> Real brick ovens can
> take 18 hours to heat. That's why they can cook a pizza in 7 minutes

I let my stone heat at least 45 minutes, sometimes an hour and I
wasn't kidding - that pizza cooked in 5 minutes. When I use more
toppings... yes, it can take up to 7 minutes - if I mess up and make
the crust too thick, it can take 8 minutes. I don't wish I had a
different oven for pizza, mine works just fine and I prefer my method
too. I know some people cook their pizza at the top of the oven and
turn on the broiler at the end. I've tried that. The only reason to
do it is to burn (not brown) the crust and the bottom wasn't the
texture I happen to like. I like my pizza, my family likes my pizza +
my husband and I have become tepid about eating pizza out these days.
It has to be outstanding (in our opinion) for us to order one (never
delivery, always inside a restaurant that doesn't deliver). My
attitude is if we're eating pizza at home, I'm making it.



--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/13/14, 9:37 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> With my old oven I could easily
> overcook the top before the bottom was done...

Interesting. I've never been able to do that in ay oven I've owned.

> .... Real brick ovens can
> take 18 hours to heat. That's why they can cook a pizza in 7 minutes

Less than that, in my experience.

With two bakestones thoroughly preheated four inches apart at the top of
my GE Profile convection oven set at max, (550+), my pizzas take less
than five minutes to be done.

-- Larry

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:50:58 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:

>On 8/13/14, 9:37 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> With my old oven I could easily
>> overcook the top before the bottom was done...
>
>Interesting. I've never been able to do that in ay oven I've owned.
>
>> .... Real brick ovens can
>> take 18 hours to heat. That's why they can cook a pizza in 7 minutes
>
>Less than that, in my experience.
>
>With two bakestones thoroughly preheated four inches apart at the top of
>my GE Profile convection oven set at max, (550+), my pizzas take less
>than five minutes to be done.
>
>-- Larry
>
I think the difference is that we really do not like thin crust
pizza.. If I made thin crust with a couple toppings I could cook it
in a couple of minutes also. Different strokes and all that
Janet US

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:27:54 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:37:18 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> Actually, new oven has a pizza setting that alternates
>> top and bottom and uses convection.
>
>I would hate that, but that's me.
>
>> I wonder if pizzerias ever 'turn' the oven off.
>
>The wood fired brick ovens I've seen let the fire become coals, but
>they always rekindle before they lose too much heat. The one
>restaurant I go to with their gas fired oven (that looks like a brick
>oven) out in open view keeps the flame on. When they aren't busy,
>I've seen them block the opening - but I bet the flame is not off,
>it's on enough to keep the oven at baking temp. Pizzerias with
>regular rectangular ovens might close their doors too, but I bet they
>never let the temperature go down either.
>
>> Real brick ovens can
>> take 18 hours to heat. That's why they can cook a pizza in 7 minutes
>
>I let my stone heat at least 45 minutes, sometimes an hour and I
>wasn't kidding - that pizza cooked in 5 minutes. When I use more
>toppings... yes, it can take up to 7 minutes - if I mess up and make
>the crust too thick, it can take 8 minutes. I don't wish I had a
>different oven for pizza, mine works just fine and I prefer my method
>too. I know some people cook their pizza at the top of the oven and
>turn on the broiler at the end. I've tried that. The only reason to
>do it is to burn (not brown) the crust and the bottom wasn't the
>texture I happen to like. I like my pizza, my family likes my pizza +
>my husband and I have become tepid about eating pizza out these days.
>It has to be outstanding (in our opinion) for us to order one (never
>delivery, always inside a restaurant that doesn't deliver). My
>attitude is if we're eating pizza at home, I'm making it.

when I bake bread I pre-heat my stone for 45 minutes. I am very fussy
about bread results. Pizza to us is fast food, what the heck is for
dinner food. I wouldn't fuss to make it special.
Janet US

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:37:18 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:34:06 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:46:35 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>>
>>> To avoid overcooking the top I generally start unloaded for a few
>>> minutes, then add sauce and toppings.
>>
>>That's very odd to me. How long do you heat your stone? How thick
>>is your crust???
>
>I got a new oven about a year ago and quickly discovered that I had to
>be more aware of heating. My old oven heated from an open coil on the
>bottom of the oven. My new oven alternates between bottom and top to
>maintain heat. Actually, new oven has a pizza setting that alternates
>top and bottom and uses convection.

You new oven will not benefit by using a pizza stone.

>With my old oven I could easily
>overcook the top before the bottom was done.

This is true of the majority of residentail ovens, especially if using
a cooked sauce, which is already partially caramelized.

>I wonder if pizzerias ever 'turn' the oven off.

Commercial pizza ovens are turned off when not going to be in use for
several hours to conserve energy and to lower utility bills... they
heat relatively fast.

>Real brick ovens can take 18 hours to heat.

Real brick ovens and commercial pizza ovens are two different animals;
the former heats with wood/coal/gas flames directly below and licking
the fire brick and is not thermostatically controlled, the latter
heats with electric elements embedded inside the fire brick and is
thermostatically controlled... very few pizzarias in the US still use
a real brick oven... they are forbidden by law in most cases due to
fire risk. Some existing ones are grandfathered but if they fail they
can't be replaced.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:50:58 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:

>On 8/13/14, 9:37 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> With my old oven I could easily
>> overcook the top before the bottom was done...
>
>Interesting. I've never been able to do that in ay oven I've owned.
>
>> .... Real brick ovens can
>> take 18 hours to heat. That's why they can cook a pizza in 7 minutes
>
>Less than that, in my experience.
>
>With two bakestones thoroughly preheated four inches apart at the top of
>my GE Profile convection oven set at max, (550+), my pizzas take less
>than five minutes to be done.

A pizza stone used with a convection oven serves no purpose, that is
other than to block the convection flow designed into the oven. Many
owner's manuals for residential stoves state that use of pizza stones
negates the warranty... and they'll know because the oven's metal
liners will be warpped.

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 3:37:18 AM UTC-10, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:34:06 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:46:35 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> To avoid overcooking the top I generally start unloaded for a few
>
> >> minutes, then add sauce and toppings.
>
> >
>
> >That's very odd to me. How long do you heat your stone? How thick
>
> >is your crust???
>
>
>
> I got a new oven about a year ago and quickly discovered that I had to
>
> be more aware of heating. My old oven heated from an open coil on the
>
> bottom of the oven. My new oven alternates between bottom and top to
>
> maintain heat. Actually, new oven has a pizza setting that alternates
>
> top and bottom and uses convection. With my old oven I could easily
>
> overcook the top before the bottom was done.
>
> I wonder if pizzerias ever 'turn' the oven off. Real brick ovens can
>
> take 18 hours to heat. That's why they can cook a pizza in 7 minutes
>
> Janet US

Sounds like a super deluxe stove. These days I lay the pizza directly on the floor of the oven for a couple of minutes to finish the bottom of the crust. I'll also turn the broiler on and brown the top too.

On 8/13/2014 1:40 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:50:58 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:
>
>> On 8/13/14, 9:37 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>> With my old oven I could easily
>>> overcook the top before the bottom was done...
>>
>> Interesting. I've never been able to do that in ay oven I've owned.
>>
>>> .... Real brick ovens can
>>> take 18 hours to heat. That's why they can cook a pizza in 7 minutes
>>
>> Less than that, in my experience.
>>
>> With two bakestones thoroughly preheated four inches apart at the top of
>> my GE Profile convection oven set at max, (550+), my pizzas take less
>> than five minutes to be done.
>
> A pizza stone used with a convection oven serves no purpose, that is
> other than to block the convection flow designed into the oven. Many
> owner's manuals for residential stoves state that use of pizza stones
> negates the warranty... and they'll know because the oven's metal
> liners will be warpped.
>
Hasn't stopped mine, plus the convecting fan and burner are located on
the rear wall of the oven, roughly parallel to the pizza stone placement.

Different strokes.

On 8/12/2014 10:55 PM, David Harmon wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:50:29 -0600 in rec.food.cooking, Janet
> Bostwick > wrote,
>> convect is handy if you load up a pizza with wet stuff like tomatoes,
>> mushrooms, onions, peppers etc. The convect not only cooks the
>> vegetables but it helps to dry the top so there isn't a puddle
>
> That would be good. I only make a pizza once every couple of years,
> and I always want to put two years worth of toppings on it.

You hit the nail on the head, I also add too many toppings. I made a a
pizza yesterday and I restrained myself. I actually have mozzarella
cheese left over.

Becca

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:27:54 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:37:18 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> Actually, new oven has a pizza setting that alternates
>> top and bottom and uses convection.
>
>I would hate that, but that's me.
snip
Why? It's just another way of keeping the heat evenly distributed
throughout the interior.
Janet US