On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:40:32 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:
snip Many
>owner's manuals for residential stoves state that use of pizza stones
>negates the warranty... and they'll know because the oven's metal
>liners will be warpped.
I haven't seen or heard of that other than restriction against placing
a stone on the floor of the oven and/or leaving it there.
Janet US

"Ema Nymton" > wrote in message
...
> On 8/12/2014 10:55 PM, David Harmon wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:50:29 -0600 in rec.food.cooking, Janet
>> Bostwick > wrote,
>>> convect is handy if you load up a pizza with wet stuff like tomatoes,
>>> mushrooms, onions, peppers etc. The convect not only cooks the
>>> vegetables but it helps to dry the top so there isn't a puddle
>>
>> That would be good. I only make a pizza once every couple of years,
>> and I always want to put two years worth of toppings on it.
>
> You hit the nail on the head, I also add too many toppings. I made a a
> pizza yesterday and I restrained myself. I actually have mozzarella cheese
> left over.

I've had that problem for years but recently I am leaning to cut down. Not
sure if I like it better, but I am sure it is)


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:30:55 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:37:18 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
snip
>
>You new oven will not benefit by using a pizza stone.
I am not using, nor ever have used a pizza stone for baking pizza.
>
>>I wonder if pizzerias ever 'turn' the oven off.
snip
>
>Real brick ovens and commercial pizza ovens are two different animals;
>the former heats with wood/coal/gas flames directly below and licking
>the fire brick and is not thermostatically controlled, the latter
>heats with electric elements embedded inside the fire brick and is
>thermostatically controlled... very few pizzarias in the US still use
>a real brick oven... they are forbidden by law in most cases due to
>fire risk. Some existing ones are grandfathered but if they fail they
>can't be replaced.

I am aware of the difference between the brick ovens and the metal
pizza ovens. I believe that very few pizzerias in the US use a real
brick oven due the cost and unwillingness to put such a permanent
thing in place. A metal pizza oven can be removed and sold. A heavy
brick oven is another proposition.
Janet US

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:40:26 AM UTC-10, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:27:54 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:37:18 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Actually, new oven has a pizza setting that alternates
>
> >> top and bottom and uses convection.
>
> >
>
> >I would hate that, but that's me.
>
> snip
>
> Why? It's just another way of keeping the heat evenly distributed
>
> throughout the interior.
>
> Janet US

Having radiant heat on top of a pizza is desirable because it caramelizes the cheese and toppings. In my oven, I have to do that manually by using the broiler.

An old favorite long since off their pizza menu, but paired now with
spaghetti.

I'm still craving it, so in lieu of the pasta, why not one store bought
pizza ball (Sfy. or pizza shop) as the delivery mechanism and the
finished Kung Pao on top with fresh mozarella or provolone cheese
crumbled on.

I'm going to add some diced (1/2") green peppers and a few coarse
chopped white onion slices to my Kung Pao too.

Should be a perfect weekend treat!


http://www.food.com/recipe/californi...aghetti-121823

SAUCE
1/2-1 1/2 cup chicken stock or 1/2-1 1/2 cup vegetable stock
2 tablespoons cornstarch
3/4 cup soy sauce
1/2 cup dry sherry
3 tablespoons red chili paste with garlic
1/4 cup sugar
2 tablespoons red wine vinegar
2 tablespoons toasted sesame oil

EGG WHITE-CORNSTARCH MIXTURE
2 egg whites
2 tablespoons cornstarch
1/2 teaspoon salt

MEAT & VEG

1 lb boneless skinless chicken breast, cut in 3/4-inch cubes
10 -15 whole chinese dried red chili peppers (don't eat these, they are
for color and heat)
1 cup unsalted dry roasted peanuts
1/4 cup minced garlic
3 cups coarsely-chopped scallions, greens and whites

Directions:


To Make the Kung Pao Sauce:.

In a medium saucepan, whisk together the chicken stock and cornstarch
until the cornstarch is fully dissolved. Stir in all the remaining sauce
ingredients and bring to a boil over medium-high heat. Reduce the heat
and simmer until the sauce is thick enough to coat the back of a spoon,
15 to 20 minutes. Set aside.

To Make Egg White-Cornstarch Mixtu

In a mixing bowl, use a whisk to stir together the egg whites,
cornstarch, and salt until thoroughly blended; be careful not to beat
them into a froth. Set aside.

Meanwhile, in a large nonstick frying pan over high heat, heat the olive
oil for about 1 minute. Add the chicken pieces to the Egg
White-Cornstarch Mixture and toss to coat them. Taking care to avoid
splattering, add the coated chicken to the pan and cook like a solid
pancake until the egg mixture sets; then, using a large spatula,
carefully flip the chicken pieces over together and, with a wooden
spoon, gently separate the pieces.

Gently stir the Chinese peppers and roasted peanuts into the pan. As
soon as they darken in color, after no more than 1 minute, stir in the
garlic and scallions. Once the garlic begins to brown, after no more
than 30 seconds, add the Kung Pao Sauce and toss and stir to coat the
ingredients.

(Ladle evenly, but not excessively over nicely stretched pizza dough,
add cheese, onto the stone for 7-8 minutes, and done!)

I'll be convection roasting the first time, 525F just to make sure it
doesn't get overdone.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:29:23 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> (Ladle evenly, but not excessively over nicely stretched pizza dough,
> add cheese, onto the stone for 7-8 minutes, and done!)
>
> I'll be convection roasting the first time, 525F just to make sure it
> doesn't get overdone.

Hey, why not? I used leftover ratatouille as a pizza topping a couple
of months ago and it was fantastic!


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/13/2014 3:37 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:29:23 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> (Ladle evenly, but not excessively over nicely stretched pizza dough,
>> add cheese, onto the stone for 7-8 minutes, and done!)
>>
>> I'll be convection roasting the first time, 525F just to make sure it
>> doesn't get overdone.
>
> Hey, why not? I used leftover ratatouille as a pizza topping a couple
> of months ago and it was fantastic!
>
>
Nice.

I know that when I make pesto, it's always a double size - one for
pasta, the other for pizza.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:40:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:27:54 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:37:18 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Actually, new oven has a pizza setting that alternates
> >> top and bottom and uses convection.
> >
> >I would hate that, but that's me.
> snip
> Why? It's just another way of keeping the heat evenly distributed
> throughout the interior.
> Janet US

I prefer radiant heat from the bottom. I love the bubbles people are
either afraid of or don't like and convect stopped that kind of yeast
action when I tried it. IMO, the top unit cycling on would do the
same thing. I've experimented with many different methods and found
one that works for me. I don't set my rack in the middle or at the
top of my oven, it's on the lowest rung setting. The bottom is as
crispy as I want it to be and the top is cooked the way *I* like it,
without being burned. Ovens vary, so what works for me might not work
for you.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:43:01 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:40:32 -0400, Brooklyn1
> > wrote:
> snip Many
> >owner's manuals for residential stoves state that use of pizza stones
> >negates the warranty... and they'll know because the oven's metal
> >liners will be warpped.
> I haven't seen or heard of that other than restriction against placing
> a stone on the floor of the oven and/or leaving it there.
> Janet US

Why place it on the floor of the oven when it can be on a rack? Most
ovens come with 3 or 4 racks these days, so letting the stone live on
one isn't a big sacrifice.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:48:00 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> I am aware of the difference between the brick ovens and the metal
> pizza ovens. I believe that very few pizzerias in the US use a real
> brick oven due the cost and unwillingness to put such a permanent
> thing in place. A metal pizza oven can be removed and sold. A heavy
> brick oven is another proposition.
> Janet US

There is a new place near us that has a cute bee hive shaped brick
oven, but it's fired by gas not wood. The only wood or mesquite coal
fires we have in city restaurants these days have been grandfathered
in. http://imgur.com/43X7uIY


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/13/2014 4:11 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:48:00 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
>
>> I am aware of the difference between the brick ovens and the metal
>> pizza ovens. I believe that very few pizzerias in the US use a real
>> brick oven due the cost and unwillingness to put such a permanent
>> thing in place. A metal pizza oven can be removed and sold. A heavy
>> brick oven is another proposition.
>> Janet US
>
> There is a new place near us that has a cute bee hive shaped brick
> oven, but it's fired by gas not wood. The only wood or mesquite coal
> fires we have in city restaurants these days have been grandfathered
> in. http://imgur.com/43X7uIY
>
>
How is that possible in a city where you have so much fresh sea air?

Do you even get bad air quality days there?

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:55:40 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:40:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
snip

Ovens vary, so what works for me might not work
>for you.

Yes. I was going to say that. I absolutely could not, with either
oven, bake on the bottom shelf. Convection in either of my ovens did
not stop the blistering when I made bread. Again. Different ovens.
Janet US

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:58:16 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:43:01 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:40:32 -0400, Brooklyn1
>> > wrote:
>> snip Many
>> >owner's manuals for residential stoves state that use of pizza stones
>> >negates the warranty... and they'll know because the oven's metal
>> >liners will be warpped.
>> I haven't seen or heard of that other than restriction against placing
>> a stone on the floor of the oven and/or leaving it there.
>> Janet US
>
>Why place it on the floor of the oven when it can be on a rack? Most
>ovens come with 3 or 4 racks these days, so letting the stone live on
>one isn't a big sacrifice.

I have heard people on this group and bread group say that they do so.
I remove mine from the oven when not doing lean bread. Folks also
place aluminum foil and those Teflon? sheets on the oven floor. Oven
manuals also recommend against that.
Janet US

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:32:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:55:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:40:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
> snip
>
> Ovens vary, so what works for me might not work
> >for you.
>
> Yes. I was going to say that. I absolutely could not, with either
> oven, bake on the bottom shelf. Convection in either of my ovens did
> not stop the blistering when I made bread. Again. Different ovens.
> Janet US

Didn't you say in another post that you don't use a stone? That's a
HUGE difference, IMO.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:35:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:58:16 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:43:01 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:40:32 -0400, Brooklyn1
> >> > wrote:
> >> snip Many
> >> >owner's manuals for residential stoves state that use of pizza stones
> >> >negates the warranty... and they'll know because the oven's metal
> >> >liners will be warpped.
> >> I haven't seen or heard of that other than restriction against placing
> >> a stone on the floor of the oven and/or leaving it there.
> >> Janet US
> >
> >Why place it on the floor of the oven when it can be on a rack? Most
> >ovens come with 3 or 4 racks these days, so letting the stone live on
> >one isn't a big sacrifice.
>
> I have heard people on this group and bread group say that they do so.
> I remove mine from the oven when not doing lean bread. Folks also
> place aluminum foil and those Teflon? sheets on the oven floor. Oven
> manuals also recommend against that.
> Janet US

I have no experience with that. I don't have a gas oven and my
electric is so old I still have the exposed coil. I'm not eager to
have a new oven either because I have read here that the self cleaning
feature burns out. I love the self-clean feature and wouldn't do
without it.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:30:49 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> On 8/13/2014 4:11 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:48:00 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> I am aware of the difference between the brick ovens and the metal
> >> pizza ovens. I believe that very few pizzerias in the US use a real
> >> brick oven due the cost and unwillingness to put such a permanent
> >> thing in place. A metal pizza oven can be removed and sold. A heavy
> >> brick oven is another proposition.
> >> Janet US
> >
> > There is a new place near us that has a cute bee hive shaped brick
> > oven, but it's fired by gas not wood. The only wood or mesquite coal
> > fires we have in city restaurants these days have been grandfathered
> > in. http://imgur.com/43X7uIY
> >
> >
> How is that possible in a city where you have so much fresh sea air?
>
> Do you even get bad air quality days there?

We have loads of fresh sea air and it blows our yucky air inland. We
participate in Spare the Air days because although our air quality may
not affect us directly, it does affect other parts of the Bay Area.
Our attitude is that we're all in it together and we try to do our
part to help them have fewer bad air days.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

Mayo wrote:
>sf wrote:
>>Mayo > wrote:
>>
>>> (Ladle evenly, but not excessively over nicely stretched pizza dough,
>>> add cheese, onto the stone for 7-8 minutes, and done!)
>>>
>>> I'll be convection roasting the first time, 525F just to make sure it
>>> doesn't get overdone.
>>
>> Hey, why not? I used leftover ratatouille as a pizza topping a couple
>> of months ago and it was fantastic!
>>
>Nice.
>
>I know that when I make pesto, it's always a double size - one for
>pasta, the other for pizza.

Pesto is that green sludge I power wash from the underside of my 7'
mower... yoose are welcome to all you want. Italians are the worst
cooks on the planet, pasta with green sludge or red sludge is TIAD...
there's nothing eyetalian about pasta anyway, and tomatoes are a new
world ingredient. I prefer noodles chinky style... one of the best
noodle dishes is Yatka Mein.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:44:39 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:32:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:55:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:40:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>> > wrote:
>> snip
>>
>> Ovens vary, so what works for me might not work
>> >for you.
>>
>> Yes. I was going to say that. I absolutely could not, with either
>> oven, bake on the bottom shelf. Convection in either of my ovens did
>> not stop the blistering when I made bread. Again. Different ovens.
>> Janet US
>
>Didn't you say in another post that you don't use a stone? That's a
>HUGE difference, IMO.

I don't use a stone for pizza. I have a screened pan. I do for
artisanal-style lean bread. I use convection for my bread on the
stone and the convection does not inhibit the blistering of the crust
-- that is what I assumed you meant when you said you liked the
bubbles.
Janet US

On 8/13/2014 1:40 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

>> Less than that, in my experience.
>>
>> With two bakestones thoroughly preheated four inches apart at the top of
>> my GE Profile convection oven set at max, (550+), my pizzas take less
>> than five minutes to be done.

> A pizza stone used with a convection oven serves no purpose, that is
> other than to block the convection flow designed into the oven.

Hey, stupid -- I said it was a convection oven. I didn't say I had it
set on convection cooking.

And even on convection, the air flow is primarily horizontal, not
vertical, so a pizza stone does very little to affect flow.

-- Larry

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:29:39 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:44:39 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:32:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:55:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:40:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> >> > wrote:
> >> snip
> >>
> >> Ovens vary, so what works for me might not work
> >> >for you.
> >>
> >> Yes. I was going to say that. I absolutely could not, with either
> >> oven, bake on the bottom shelf. Convection in either of my ovens did
> >> not stop the blistering when I made bread. Again. Different ovens.
> >> Janet US
> >
> >Didn't you say in another post that you don't use a stone? That's a
> >HUGE difference, IMO.
>
> I don't use a stone for pizza. I have a screened pan. I do for
> artisanal-style lean bread. I use convection for my bread on the
> stone and the convection does not inhibit the blistering of the crust
> -- that is what I assumed you meant when you said you liked the
> bubbles.

My oven is from the early '90s late '80s. If you remember the TV show
called "Coach", it was a kitchen prop. That's how old it is. Surely
the convect feature on ovens have improved by now. Mine is less than
"meh, it's a feature I ever want or need to use and I have no idea why
people like it.

I'm not in any hurry to replace it because I'd replace it with another
electric oven. Unfortunately, electric designers have bent to the
juvenal wishes of those with gas oven envy and they've buried the
bottom coils. As a result, if you use the self cleaning feature - you
burn them out. I like the self cleaning feature of my oven and as
long as that's working, I'm not going to replace the unit because the
design still has a new vibe going for it.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 23:19:11 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:

> And even on convection, the air flow is primarily horizontal, not
> vertical, so a pizza stone does very little to affect flow.

True.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/13/2014 5:58 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:30:49 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> On 8/13/2014 4:11 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:48:00 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am aware of the difference between the brick ovens and the metal
>>>> pizza ovens. I believe that very few pizzerias in the US use a real
>>>> brick oven due the cost and unwillingness to put such a permanent
>>>> thing in place. A metal pizza oven can be removed and sold. A heavy
>>>> brick oven is another proposition.
>>>> Janet US
>>>
>>> There is a new place near us that has a cute bee hive shaped brick
>>> oven, but it's fired by gas not wood. The only wood or mesquite coal
>>> fires we have in city restaurants these days have been grandfathered
>>> in. http://imgur.com/43X7uIY
>>>
>>>
>> How is that possible in a city where you have so much fresh sea air?
>>
>> Do you even get bad air quality days there?
>
> We have loads of fresh sea air and it blows our yucky air inland. We
> participate in Spare the Air days because although our air quality may
> not affect us directly, it does affect other parts of the Bay Area.
> Our attitude is that we're all in it together and we try to do our
> part to help them have fewer bad air days.

Very cool, so there is an inversion of sorts I presume, makes sense.

On 8/13/2014 7:12 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Mayo wrote:
>> sf wrote:
>>> Mayo > wrote:
>>>
>>>> (Ladle evenly, but not excessively over nicely stretched pizza dough,
>>>> add cheese, onto the stone for 7-8 minutes, and done!)
>>>>
>>>> I'll be convection roasting the first time, 525F just to make sure it
>>>> doesn't get overdone.
>>>
>>> Hey, why not? I used leftover ratatouille as a pizza topping a couple
>>> of months ago and it was fantastic!
>>>
>> Nice.
>>
>> I know that when I make pesto, it's always a double size - one for
>> pasta, the other for pizza.
>
> Pesto is that green sludge I power wash from the underside of my 7'
> mower... yoose are welcome to all you want. Italians are the worst
> cooks on the planet, pasta with green sludge or red sludge is TIAD...
> there's nothing eyetalian about pasta anyway, and tomatoes are a new
> world ingredient. I prefer noodles chinky style... one of the best
> noodle dishes is Yatka Mein.
>

I haven't found the need to trade one cuisine off in favor of another,
they're all good.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:26:34 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> On 8/13/2014 5:58 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:30:49 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/13/2014 4:11 PM, sf wrote:
> >>>
> >>> There is a new place near us that has a cute bee hive shaped brick
> >>> oven, but it's fired by gas not wood. The only wood or mesquite coal
> >>> fires we have in city restaurants these days have been grandfathered
> >>> in. http://imgur.com/43X7uIY
> >>>
> >>>
> >> How is that possible in a city where you have so much fresh sea air?
> >>
> >> Do you even get bad air quality days there?
> >
> > We have loads of fresh sea air and it blows our yucky air inland. We
> > participate in Spare the Air days because although our air quality may
> > not affect us directly, it does affect other parts of the Bay Area.
> > Our attitude is that we're all in it together and we try to do our
> > part to help them have fewer bad air days.
>
> Very cool, so there is an inversion of sorts I presume, makes sense.

Yes. Topography has a lot to do with microclimate temperatures. The
warmer it is inland, the colder it is here. Just think about mountain
ranges and why it's wet on one side and dry (often desert-like) on the
other. That's what we have here but it's fog and not rain. The
hotter it is inland the colder it is here. The cold comes in over the
ocean and the heat comes from the Valley and the collide over a
mountain range.

For the most part, fog is kept West of Twin Peaks - but during a
severe El Niño August (extra cold ocean air), it can creep as far
inland as the Altamont Pass and you know you're going to be hit by a
blast of 100°+ hot air when you get to Pleasanton/Livermore area on
those days.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:32:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:55:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:40:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>> > wrote:
>> snip
>>
>> Ovens vary, so what works for me might not work
>> >for you.
>>
>> Yes. I was going to say that. I absolutely could not, with either
>> oven, bake on the bottom shelf. Convection in either of my ovens did
>> not stop the blistering when I made bread. Again. Different ovens.
>> Janet US
>
> Didn't you say in another post that you don't use a stone? That's a
> HUGE difference, IMO.

I used to have a stone but I can't say I was overly impressed and when it
cracked I didn't replace it. I use one of those perforated pans now and it
suits is fine.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:35:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:58:16 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:43:01 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:40:32 -0400, Brooklyn1
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> snip Many
>> >> >owner's manuals for residential stoves state that use of pizza stones
>> >> >negates the warranty... and they'll know because the oven's metal
>> >> >liners will be warpped.
>> >> I haven't seen or heard of that other than restriction against placing
>> >> a stone on the floor of the oven and/or leaving it there.
>> >> Janet US
>> >
>> >Why place it on the floor of the oven when it can be on a rack? Most
>> >ovens come with 3 or 4 racks these days, so letting the stone live on
>> >one isn't a big sacrifice.
>>
>> I have heard people on this group and bread group say that they do so.
>> I remove mine from the oven when not doing lean bread. Folks also
>> place aluminum foil and those Teflon? sheets on the oven floor. Oven
>> manuals also recommend against that.
>> Janet US
>
> I have no experience with that. I don't have a gas oven and my
> electric is so old I still have the exposed coil. I'm not eager to
> have a new oven either because I have read here that the self cleaning
> feature burns out. I love the self-clean feature and wouldn't do
> without it.

Why is it not advisable to put foil on the oven floor and is that for gas or
electric ovens?

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:22:57 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:
>
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:32:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:55:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:40:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> >> > wrote:
> >> snip
> >>
> >> Ovens vary, so what works for me might not work
> >> >for you.
> >>
> >> Yes. I was going to say that. I absolutely could not, with either
> >> oven, bake on the bottom shelf. Convection in either of my ovens did
> >> not stop the blistering when I made bread. Again. Different ovens.
> >> Janet US
> >
> > Didn't you say in another post that you don't use a stone? That's a
> > HUGE difference, IMO.
>
> I used to have a stone but I can't say I was overly impressed and when it
> cracked I didn't replace it. I use one of those perforated pans now and it
> suits is fine.

To each his own. You need to know how to use the stone to like it.
It has to be preheated (not for just a few minutes) and the pizza
should be placed directly on it to bake. No parchment. I used
unglazed quarry tiles for years. They were so successful that I
finally treated myself to a stone. Both give me near enough to brick
oven pizza to be satisfied with the result and that's my goal. I have
a perforated pan (don't know why I didn't give it away years ago, but
I have room to store it so that hasn't happened yet). I bought it
before I ever considered using quarry tiles, but it gave me a result
that's closer to frozen pizza. If I wanted frozen pizza, I'd just buy
it and save myself the trouble of making pizza from scratch.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:25:37 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:35:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:58:16 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:43:01 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:40:32 -0400, Brooklyn1
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> snip Many
> >> >> >owner's manuals for residential stoves state that use of pizza stones
> >> >> >negates the warranty... and they'll know because the oven's metal
> >> >> >liners will be warpped.
> >> >> I haven't seen or heard of that other than restriction against placing
> >> >> a stone on the floor of the oven and/or leaving it there.
> >> >> Janet US
> >> >
> >> >Why place it on the floor of the oven when it can be on a rack? Most
> >> >ovens come with 3 or 4 racks these days, so letting the stone live on
> >> >one isn't a big sacrifice.
> >>
> >> I have heard people on this group and bread group say that they do so.
> >> I remove mine from the oven when not doing lean bread. Folks also
> >> place aluminum foil and those Teflon? sheets on the oven floor. Oven
> >> manuals also recommend against that.
> >> Janet US
> >
> > I have no experience with that. I don't have a gas oven and my
> > electric is so old I still have the exposed coil. I'm not eager to
> > have a new oven either because I have read here that the self cleaning
> > feature burns out. I love the self-clean feature and wouldn't do
> > without it.
>
> Why is it not advisable to put foil on the oven floor and is that for gas or
> electric ovens?

GGIYF, but it probably has to do with overheating. In any case, I'll
cross that bridge when I come to it. I don't have concealed coils, so
I don't need to know at this point. Frankly, I wouldn't place my
stone on the oven floor anyway. Like I said earlier, the new ovens
are all convect and come with 3 or 4 shelves so I'll continue doing
what I do now and let them live on the lowest rung. I don't remove
them when using my ovens either. If I need to use that shelf (rare to
never), I place whatever it is I'm baking right on top of them.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 8/14/14, 6:25 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
> Why is it not advisable to put foil on the oven floor and is that for
> gas or electric ovens?

It is certainly true for most concealed element electrics made in the
past ten years. My GE Profiles' manuals have all contained specific
warnings about placing anything on the oven floor, because it prevents
the heat from moving upward freely into the oven and may cause the lower
heating element to burn out.

That said, I kept a pizza stone on the floor of my last Profile. It had
roughly 1/8 inch high "feet", and I didn't notice any problem, other
than slower than usual heating.

-- Larry

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:22:57 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:32:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:55:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:40:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> snip
>> >>
>> >> Ovens vary, so what works for me might not work
>> >> >for you.
>> >>
>> >> Yes. I was going to say that. I absolutely could not, with either
>> >> oven, bake on the bottom shelf. Convection in either of my ovens did
>> >> not stop the blistering when I made bread. Again. Different ovens.
>> >> Janet US
>> >
>> > Didn't you say in another post that you don't use a stone? That's a
>> > HUGE difference, IMO.
>>
>> I used to have a stone but I can't say I was overly impressed and when it
>> cracked I didn't replace it. I use one of those perforated pans now and
>> it
>> suits is fine.
>
> To each his own. You need to know how to use the stone to like it.
> It has to be preheated (not for just a few minutes) and the pizza
> should be placed directly on it to bake. No parchment. I used
> unglazed quarry tiles for years. They were so successful that I
> finally treated myself to a stone. Both give me near enough to brick
> oven pizza to be satisfied with the result and that's my goal. I have
> a perforated pan (don't know why I didn't give it away years ago, but
> I have room to store it so that hasn't happened yet). I bought it
> before I ever considered using quarry tiles, but it gave me a result
> that's closer to frozen pizza. If I wanted frozen pizza, I'd just buy
> it and save myself the trouble of making pizza from scratch.

As you said ... To each his own! Incidentally, I used unglazed quarry tiles
for years too I just can't be bothered now. We don't eat enough pizza to
make a difference.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On 8/14/14, 6:25 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> Why is it not advisable to put foil on the oven floor and is that for
>> gas or electric ovens?
>
> It is certainly true for most concealed element electrics made in the past
> ten years. My GE Profiles' manuals have all contained specific warnings
> about placing anything on the oven floor, because it prevents the heat
> from moving upward freely into the oven and may cause the lower heating
> element to burn out.
>
> That said, I kept a pizza stone on the floor of my last Profile. It had
> roughly 1/8 inch high "feet", and I didn't notice any problem, other than
> slower than usual heating.

Thanks, Larry. My top oven is not convection and is heated from above. Not
sure why I would want to line the bottom, but I was interested My big
convection oven is heated from the back so I guess I am safe with that one
too Oh and they are both electric.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:29:15 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

> Thanks, Larry. My top oven is not convection and is heated from above.

Are you sure? What is the advantage of that? We call heat from the
top "broil", but it's a method of cooking. I've never heard of an
oven's heat only coming from the top unless it was broken. Usually
preheat involves both the top and bottom coils, but didn't you say
your bottom unit is hidden - so you won't see it work in the process
of heating.

> Not
> sure why I would want to line the bottom, but I was interested

You and I think ahead set things that are likely to boil over on a
cookie sheet. We also bake things like sweet potatoes on a piece of
foil - other people don't, so their ovens are a mess and their way of
dealing with it is to line the bottom of their oven with foil.

> My big
> convection oven is heated from the back so I guess I am safe with that one
> too Oh and they are both electric.

Is your big oven on convect all the time or can you turn it off?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:29:15 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Larry. My top oven is not convection and is heated from above.
>
> Are you sure? What is the advantage of that?

LOL I don't know! It just is

We call heat from the
> top "broil", but it's a method of cooking. I've never heard of an
> oven's heat only coming from the top unless it was broken. Usually
> preheat involves both the top and bottom coils, but didn't you say
> your bottom unit is hidden - so you won't see it work in the process
> of heating.

It works fine on grill/broil and convection.


>
>> Not
>> sure why I would want to line the bottom, but I was interested
>
> You and I think ahead set things that are likely to boil over on a
> cookie sheet. We also bake things like sweet potatoes on a piece of
> foil - other people don't, so their ovens are a mess and their way of
> dealing with it is to line the bottom of their oven with foil.

I keep a grid in the bottom of both and a large tray/cookie sheet on top.
Not because of bottom heating, but because, as you say, I don't want stuff
burning when it boils over. I suppose if others line the bottom of their
oven
then any over spill will avoid a mess.


>
>> My big
>> convection oven is heated from the back so I guess I am safe with that
>> one
>> too Oh and they are both electric.
>
> Is your big oven on convect all the time or can you turn it off?

It works all the time and I can't turn it off.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"sf" > wrote
>
> It has to be preheated (not for just a few minutes) and the pizza
> should be placed directly on it to bake. No parchment....

Why do you say "no parchment"? I do it both ways, depending on the
toppings, and don't notice any difference at all.

Parchment is so thin that it doesn't drop the surface temp. at all, and
I doubt that there's enough hot air circulating under the raw dough to
matter.

-- Larry

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:35:36 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:

> "sf" > wrote
> >
> > It has to be preheated (not for just a few minutes) and the pizza
> > should be placed directly on it to bake. No parchment....
>
> Why do you say "no parchment"? I do it both ways, depending on the
> toppings, and don't notice any difference at all.
>
> Parchment is so thin that it doesn't drop the surface temp. at all, and
> I doubt that there's enough hot air circulating under the raw dough to
> matter.
>
I don't use perforated steel and there is no air circulation
underneath. Direct contact with the stone + heat crisps the crust.
The same effect would not be achieved with a barrier like parchment.



--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:48:43 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

> >> My big
> >> convection oven is heated from the back so I guess I am safe with that
> >> one too Oh and they are both electric.
> >
> > Is your big oven on convect all the time or can you turn it off?
>
> It works all the time and I can't turn it off.

Oh, man - I would hate that. In fact, I wouldn't buy your ovens if
they paid me... one with a fan I couldn't turn off and the other with
heat only from the top simply wouldn't work for me. I don't cook that
way.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 09:54:09 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:35:36 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:
>
>> "sf" > wrote
>> >
>> > It has to be preheated (not for just a few minutes) and the pizza
>> > should be placed directly on it to bake. No parchment....
>>
>> Why do you say "no parchment"? I do it both ways, depending on the
>> toppings, and don't notice any difference at all.
>>
>> Parchment is so thin that it doesn't drop the surface temp. at all, and
>> I doubt that there's enough hot air circulating under the raw dough to
>> matter.
>>
>I don't use perforated steel and there is no air circulation
>underneath. Direct contact with the stone + heat crisps the crust.
>The same effect would not be achieved with a barrier like parchment.

I have to disagree with you. I bake bread on the stone with parchment
underneath the dough and I consistently get crust that will shatter.
(that's with or without convection, old oven or new.)
Janet US

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:48:43 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>> >> My big
>> >> convection oven is heated from the back so I guess I am safe with that
>> >> one too Oh and they are both electric.
>> >
>> > Is your big oven on convect all the time or can you turn it off?
>>
>> It works all the time and I can't turn it off.
>
> Oh, man - I would hate that. In fact, I wouldn't buy your ovens if
> they paid me... one with a fan I couldn't turn off and the other with
> heat only from the top simply wouldn't work for me. I don't cook that
> way.

All works fine for me)


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:01:22 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 09:54:09 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:35:36 -0400, pltrgyst > wrote:
> >
> >> "sf" > wrote
> >> >
> >> > It has to be preheated (not for just a few minutes) and the pizza
> >> > should be placed directly on it to bake. No parchment....
> >>
> >> Why do you say "no parchment"? I do it both ways, depending on the
> >> toppings, and don't notice any difference at all.
> >>
> >> Parchment is so thin that it doesn't drop the surface temp. at all, and
> >> I doubt that there's enough hot air circulating under the raw dough to
> >> matter.
> >>
> >I don't use perforated steel and there is no air circulation
> >underneath. Direct contact with the stone + heat crisps the crust.
> >The same effect would not be achieved with a barrier like parchment.
>
> I have to disagree with you. I bake bread on the stone with parchment
> underneath the dough and I consistently get crust that will shatter.
> (that's with or without convection, old oven or new.)
> Janet US

You have the final word on the subject.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:24:13 +0100, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:48:43 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> >> My big
> >> >> convection oven is heated from the back so I guess I am safe with that
> >> >> one too Oh and they are both electric.
> >> >
> >> > Is your big oven on convect all the time or can you turn it off?
> >>
> >> It works all the time and I can't turn it off.
> >
> > Oh, man - I would hate that. In fact, I wouldn't buy your ovens if
> > they paid me... one with a fan I couldn't turn off and the other with
> > heat only from the top simply wouldn't work for me. I don't cook that
> > way.
>
> All works fine for me)




--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.