On 9/2/2014 11:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:52:23 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>> Confusion reigns. I was a Brother Teamster when I worked as the
>>> concierge at a hotel lifting a telephone hand set up to my ear.
>>
>> I can not imagine any reason a job of that sort needed to be unionized.
>
>
> Unions will organize any place they can. I assume the Teamsters
> organized the hotel workers. There is a solid reason that the
> concierge would be a member. They want his dues money.

Point.

> One place I worked had the people packing plastic parts as members of
> the International Laborers and Hod Carriers.
>
> Hotel workers are generally low on the pay scale. I don't know enough
> about them to say a Union would be good or bad for them.

I suppose the question is are they being oppressed to any great degree.

On 9/2/2014 11:59 AM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:16:43 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> On 9/2/2014 5:47 AM, sf wrote:
>
>>> Sometimes we resist change in the form of progress.
>>>
>>>
>> Change for the sake of change is rarely a form of progress, rather it's
>> a displacement activity which often enriches parties whose identity and
>> role in the churn is covert.
>>
>> My .02c
>
> I've experienced plenty of that at work. A new boss comes in, so out
> with the old and in with the new. Never mind the new involves what
> amounts to time lost learning a new process that ultimately isn't any
> better than the old one. But it's the new boss's new way. Lots of
> motion that's going nowhere. Whoop tee doo.
>
>
It certainly infects many aspects of life, political, sporting, and work.

"Mayo" > wrote in message ...
> On 9/1/2014 11:06 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>>> On 9/1/2014 7:38 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>> OK,. you get an A for your Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, book report.
>>>
>>> And you get an A+ for shooting from the rhetorical hip and being unable
>>> to
>>> support and prove your points.
>>>
>>> Done.
>>
>> The problem with the ostrich position is it leaves your backside in a
>> vulnerable state.
>
> The problem with shooting from the hip is you constantly miss the target.
>
>> Not my fault you seem to be completely disconnected from the world around
>> you. There is only one thing that explains this and that is that you
>> never
>> have had to think outside of the box you live in.
>
> Not my problem that you trade in heavily emotionally loaded fantasies,
> ones that collapse under the lens of reality.

Oooohhhhhhhhh emotionally loaded! I work in the realk world. You work for
mum and dad apparently.

>> Your urbanity is based on disinterest and your disinterest is based on
>> privilege.
>
> LOL!

> It has been my privilege to expose your unending torrent of lies,
> misrepresentations, and outright hyperbole.

Just where have you done that save to post a link to somebody's blog?

> Let's hear that sad canard again about how the union conceded to GM before
> the bailout, you lying turdbucket.

Look who's emotrional. See the problem is you believe too much in yourself.
Your dogma was run over by my karma and now you grieve.

Have a cookie. Mum just baked them.




---
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On 02/09/2014 11:29 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2014-09-01, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> means sharing of profits in good times, good work ethics, and good
>> products that both the company and worker can be proud of.
>
> This can be accomplished without the adversarial relation of union vs
> corp. All the company needs to do is provide the bennies the union
> would normally have to fight for. Silicon Valley personified this
> type of management style to great advantage. Lotta bennies and no
> unions.
>
> nb
>
And then there's Walmart!
Graham

On 9/2/2014 12:33 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>> On 9/1/2014 11:06 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>>>> On 9/1/2014 7:38 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>>> OK,. you get an A for your Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, book report.
>>>>
>>>> And you get an A+ for shooting from the rhetorical hip and being unable
>>>> to
>>>> support and prove your points.
>>>>
>>>> Done.
>>>
>>> The problem with the ostrich position is it leaves your backside in a
>>> vulnerable state.
>>
>> The problem with shooting from the hip is you constantly miss the target.
>>
>>> Not my fault you seem to be completely disconnected from the world around
>>> you. There is only one thing that explains this and that is that you
>>> never
>>> have had to think outside of the box you live in.
>>
>> Not my problem that you trade in heavily emotionally loaded fantasies,
>> ones that collapse under the lens of reality.
>
> Oooohhhhhhhhh emotionally loaded!

Precisely, your rhetoric trades in emotive negativity and misconceived
notions.

> I work in the realk world.

How on earth do you manage?

Your dogma is so fatally decoupled from reality that you must be in a
constant state of flux.

> You work for mum and dad apparently.

I'd briefly counsel you that in a boomer-heavy medium that would be a
bit of a logical improbability at best, chronologically speaking.

>>> Your urbanity is based on disinterest and your disinterest is based on
>>> privilege.
>>
>> LOL!
>
>> It has been my privilege to expose your unending torrent of lies,
>> misrepresentations, and outright hyperbole.
>
> Just where have you done that save to post a link to somebody's blog?

Right the way through this thread, again and again.

Tell us once more how the unions made contractual concessions to GM
before the bailout.

>> Let's hear that sad canard again about how the union conceded to GM before
>> the bailout, you lying turdbucket.
>
> Look who's emotrional.

Look who's a rank liar.

You were caught, brought up short with am indisputable news link, yet
still maintain your mulish mendacity.

In a word - you're sick.

> See the problem is you believe too much in yourself.

I didn't cite myself, I cited valid and proven resources.

You, otoh, have cited ONLY yourself.

> Your dogma was run over by my karma and now you grieve.

Your karma is to be rebuked.

If I did so in a dogmatic fashion it was entirely proportionate to the
flighty disinformation you so flagrantly tendered here.

> Have a cookie. Mum just baked them.

What, and risk eating GMO?!?!?

Sorry, I'll have to get a permission slip from Monsanto.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:07:32 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> On 9/2/2014 11:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:52:23 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>> Confusion reigns. I was a Brother Teamster when I worked as the
> >>> concierge at a hotel lifting a telephone hand set up to my ear.
> >>
> >> I can not imagine any reason a job of that sort needed to be unionized.
> >
> >
> > Unions will organize any place they can. I assume the Teamsters
> > organized the hotel workers. There is a solid reason that the
> > concierge would be a member. They want his dues money.
>
> Point.
>
> > One place I worked had the people packing plastic parts as members of
> > the International Laborers and Hod Carriers.
> >
> > Hotel workers are generally low on the pay scale. I don't know enough
> > about them to say a Union would be good or bad for them.
>
> I suppose the question is are they being oppressed to any great degree.

The housekeeping staff can be and is often abused. I would guess that
holds true in hotel kitchens too. Not so much at the front desk, but
you never know what they would expect you to do if the union wasn't
watching your back.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/2/2014 12:45 PM, graham wrote:
> On 02/09/2014 11:29 AM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2014-09-01, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> means sharing of profits in good times, good work ethics, and good
>>> products that both the company and worker can be proud of.
>>
>> This can be accomplished without the adversarial relation of union vs
>> corp. All the company needs to do is provide the bennies the union
>> would normally have to fight for. Silicon Valley personified this
>> type of management style to great advantage. Lotta bennies and no
>> unions.
>>
>> nb
>>
> And then there's Walmart!
> Graham


Oh boo hoo hoo...they compete in a market segment known for razor thin
profit margins and have to act accordingly.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/734.html

Grocery Stores
Net Profit Margin (mrq): 2.4%

So please, do show us how YOU would run a business competitively on a
2.4% profit margin.

Take all the screens you need.

On 9/2/2014 1:01 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:07:32 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> On 9/2/2014 11:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:52:23 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Confusion reigns. I was a Brother Teamster when I worked as the
>>>>> concierge at a hotel lifting a telephone hand set up to my ear.
>>>>
>>>> I can not imagine any reason a job of that sort needed to be unionized.
>>>
>>>
>>> Unions will organize any place they can. I assume the Teamsters
>>> organized the hotel workers. There is a solid reason that the
>>> concierge would be a member. They want his dues money.
>>
>> Point.
>>
>>> One place I worked had the people packing plastic parts as members of
>>> the International Laborers and Hod Carriers.
>>>
>>> Hotel workers are generally low on the pay scale. I don't know enough
>>> about them to say a Union would be good or bad for them.
>>
>> I suppose the question is are they being oppressed to any great degree.
>
> The housekeeping staff can be and is often abused.

Having watched a fair number of the programs "Hotel Impossible" and
"Hotel Hell" I haven't seen much of that at all.

I have seen rampant disinterest in room condition from clueless owners
and a lack of training and standards.

> I would guess that
> holds true in hotel kitchens too. Not so much at the front desk, but
> you never know what they would expect you to do if the union wasn't
> watching your back.

I'm not in that industry, but whatever those expectations might be they
certainly seem invisible to me as a guest.

On 2014-09-02 1:59 PM, sf wrote:

>> Change for the sake of change is rarely a form of progress, rather it's
>> a displacement activity which often enriches parties whose identity and
>> role in the churn is covert.
>>
>> My .02c
>
> I've experienced plenty of that at work. A new boss comes in, so out
> with the old and in with the new. Never mind the new involves what
> amounts to time lost learning a new process that ultimately isn't any
> better than the old one. But it's the new boss's new way. Lots of
> motion that's going nowhere. Whoop tee doo.

We saw lots of that when I worked in the enforcement branch. It was a
grooming position for advancement in the ministry because of the wide
range of training involved, a stepping on the way to upper management.
As a result, we had new district supervisors ever few years. Most of
them had little or no experience in our job but they were good and
making numbers look like they meant something. Each new one came with a
new way of manipulating the numbers. By the time they were ready to
moved on we were back to doing the same thing we used to.

"Mayo" > wrote in message ...
> On 9/2/2014 12:33 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>>> On 9/1/2014 11:06 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>> "Mayo" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On 9/1/2014 7:38 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>>>> OK,. you get an A for your Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, book report.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you get an A+ for shooting from the rhetorical hip and being
>>>>> unable
>>>>> to
>>>>> support and prove your points.
>>>>>
>>>>> Done.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with the ostrich position is it leaves your backside in a
>>>> vulnerable state.
>>>
>>> The problem with shooting from the hip is you constantly miss the
>>> target.
>>>
>>>> Not my fault you seem to be completely disconnected from the world
>>>> around
>>>> you. There is only one thing that explains this and that is that you
>>>> never
>>>> have had to think outside of the box you live in.
>>>
>>> Not my problem that you trade in heavily emotionally loaded fantasies,
>>> ones that collapse under the lens of reality.
>>
>> Oooohhhhhhhhh emotionally loaded!
>
> Precisely, your rhetoric trades in emotive negativity and misconceived
> notions.
>
>> I work in the realk world.
>
> How on earth do you manage?
>
> Your dogma is so fatally decoupled from reality that you must be in a
> constant state of flux.
>
>> You work for mum and dad apparently.
>
> I'd briefly counsel you that in a boomer-heavy medium that would be a bit
> of a logical improbability at best, chronologically speaking.

Doesn't mean it doesn't include you.

>>>> Your urbanity is based on disinterest and your disinterest is based on
>>>> privilege.
>>>
>>> LOL!
>>
>>> It has been my privilege to expose your unending torrent of lies,
>>> misrepresentations, and outright hyperbole.
>>
>> Just where have you done that save to post a link to somebody's blog?
>
> Right the way through this thread, again and again.

Sure, sure. Your opinion is admissible in a court of law is what you'll
tell me next.

> Tell us once more how the unions made contractual concessions to GM before
> the bailout.
>
>>> Let's hear that sad canard again about how the union conceded to GM
>>> before
>>> the bailout, you lying turdbucket.
>>
>> Look who's emotrional.
>
> Look who's a rank liar.
>

A lie is a deliberate miscoinstruction of the truth in order to deceive.
Just because you do not read the same material I do does not make me a liar.
You argue like brain dead republicans. What are your thoughts on climate
change? How old is the Earth? Will gays burn in eternal hell?

> You were caught, brought up short with am indisputable news link, yet
> still maintain your mulish mendacity.

A blog is not a news link. A bloig is a blog. An op-ed is not news either.

> In a word - you're sick.

Oh my. That hurts.

>> See the problem is you believe too much in yourself.
>
> I didn't cite myself, I cited valid and proven resources.

No, you did not. You merely posted links to somebody's opinion which
supports your opinion. Yoiu just think your opinion is cold hard fact.
Because .. well because you believe it ... that's why.

> You, otoh, have cited ONLY yourself.
>
>> Your dogma was run over by my karma and now you grieve.
>
> Your karma is to be rebuked.

My karma is in the shop getting the dents pulled out after sending your
dogma to the ages.

> If I did so in a dogmatic fashion it was entirely proportionate to the
> flighty disinformation you so flagrantly tendered here.
>
>> Have a cookie. Mum just baked them.
>
> What, and risk eating GMO?!?!?

It's good for you. I ahve somebody's opinion on that. Take it to the bank.

> Sorry, I'll have to get a permission slip from Monsanto.

No just read the license agreement on the bag of flour. That's all they
ask.



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On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:23:06 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> > The housekeeping staff can be and is often abused.
>
> Having watched a fair number of the programs "Hotel Impossible" and
> "Hotel Hell" I haven't seen much of that at all.
>
> I have seen rampant disinterest in room condition from clueless owners
> and a lack of training and standards.

I have known people who actually worked as hotel maids - mostly
through their children. There are official work rules and then
there's the over and above that they are expected to get done (up to
twice as many rooms as they are supposed to clean) in order to keep
their jobs - on top of that, they are part time and on call at the
drop of a hat. They have weak to non-existent English skills and are
usually single women with children. What can they do? Someone who
causes trouble will be fired. They are barely making it week to week
and don't have the luxury of being able to wait out an appeal process.
So, they keep their mouths shut and do what they are told because
there are other female workers with weak to non-existent language
skills waiting on the sidelines for an available job opening.
>
> > I would guess that
> > holds true in hotel kitchens too. Not so much at the front desk, but
> > you never know what they would expect you to do if the union wasn't
> > watching your back.
>
> I'm not in that industry, but whatever those expectations might be they
> certainly seem invisible to me as a guest.



--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/2/2014 1:43 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>> On 9/2/2014 12:33 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>>>> On 9/1/2014 11:06 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>>> "Mayo" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On 9/1/2014 7:38 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>>>>> OK,. you get an A for your Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, book report.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you get an A+ for shooting from the rhetorical hip and being
>>>>>> unable
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> support and prove your points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem with the ostrich position is it leaves your backside in a
>>>>> vulnerable state.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with shooting from the hip is you constantly miss the
>>>> target.
>>>>
>>>>> Not my fault you seem to be completely disconnected from the world
>>>>> around
>>>>> you. There is only one thing that explains this and that is that you
>>>>> never
>>>>> have had to think outside of the box you live in.
>>>>
>>>> Not my problem that you trade in heavily emotionally loaded fantasies,
>>>> ones that collapse under the lens of reality.
>>>
>>> Oooohhhhhhhhh emotionally loaded!
>>
>> Precisely, your rhetoric trades in emotive negativity and misconceived
>> notions.
>>
>>> I work in the realk world.
>>
>> How on earth do you manage?
>>
>> Your dogma is so fatally decoupled from reality that you must be in a
>> constant state of flux.
>>
>>> You work for mum and dad apparently.
>>
>> I'd briefly counsel you that in a boomer-heavy medium that would be a bit
>> of a logical improbability at best, chronologically speaking.
>
> Doesn't mean it doesn't include you.

Your alleged clairvoyance has failed you again.

>>>>> Your urbanity is based on disinterest and your disinterest is based on
>>>>> privilege.
>>>>
>>>> LOL!
>>>
>>>> It has been my privilege to expose your unending torrent of lies,
>>>> misrepresentations, and outright hyperbole.
>>>
>>> Just where have you done that save to post a link to somebody's blog?
>>
>> Right the way through this thread, again and again.
>
> Sure, sure. Your opinion is admissible in a court of law is what you'll
> tell me next.

My factual cites on GM, the UAW, and the government directions regarding
the pensions were unambiguously accurate.

YOU are the one constantly trading in opinion, not me.

>> Tell us once more how the unions made contractual concessions to GM before
>> the bailout.
>>
>>>> Let's hear that sad canard again about how the union conceded to GM
>>>> before
>>>> the bailout, you lying turdbucket.
>>>
>>> Look who's emotrional.
>>
>> Look who's a rank liar.
>>
>
> A lie is a deliberate miscoinstruction of the truth in order to deceive.

Yes, I believe you deliberately misled regarding the UAWs role in GM's
failure.

> Just because you do not read the same material I do does not make me a liar.

How you choose to brainwash yourself is your own matter, what you do
when confronted with the actual facts is reprehensible.

> You argue like brain dead republicans.

And you natter and mislead like a bleeding heart lib.

> What are your thoughts on climate change?

The climate is in a constant state of change.

> How old is the Earth?

I think the 6 million year number has merit

> Will gays burn in eternal hell?

No, but pedophiles and abusers of all manner will.

>> You were caught, brought up short with am indisputable news link, yet
>> still maintain your mulish mendacity.
>
> A blog is not a news link. A bloig is a blog. An op-ed is not news either.

The link regarding the post-bailout union contract was from yahoo
finance news:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-UAW...068756496.html


DETROIT (AP) -- The United Auto Workers union won $5,000 signing bonuses
and the possibility of sweeter profit-sharing checks as part of a new
four-year contract with General Motors Co., two people briefed on the
talks said Saturday.The deal, which was reached late Friday, also
includes a $2- to $3-per-hour pay raise for entry-level workers over >

> No, you did not. You merely posted links to somebody's opinion which
> supports your opinion.

That is a complete fabrication.

The link posted above was from Yahoo finance news.

The data on GM profits came from Marke****ch.

Neither of the two is an "opinion", now is it?

> Yoiu just think your opinion is cold hard
> fact. Because .. well because you believe it ... that's why.

No, I researched the facts and posted them.

You presented zilch in terms of verifiable facts.

>> You, otoh, have cited ONLY yourself.
>>
>>> Your dogma was run over by my karma and now you grieve.
>>
>> Your karma is to be rebuked.
>
> My karma is in the shop getting the dents pulled out after sending your
> dogma to the ages.

I find the utter denial of reality you evince to be a ludicrous public
display of unbridled hubris.

>> If I did so in a dogmatic fashion it was entirely proportionate to the
>> flighty disinformation you so flagrantly tendered here.
>>
>>> Have a cookie. Mum just baked them.
>>
>> What, and risk eating GMO?!?!?
>
> It's good for you. I ahve somebody's opinion on that. Take it to the bank.

I think you were paid off by Monsanto.

>> Sorry, I'll have to get a permission slip from Monsanto.
>
> No just read the license agreement on the bag of flour. That's all they
> ask.

I can't, I'm too busy reading the New Yorker...

On 9/2/2014 1:52 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:23:06 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>>> The housekeeping staff can be and is often abused.
>>
>> Having watched a fair number of the programs "Hotel Impossible" and
>> "Hotel Hell" I haven't seen much of that at all.
>>
>> I have seen rampant disinterest in room condition from clueless owners
>> and a lack of training and standards.
>
> I have known people who actually worked as hotel maids - mostly
> through their children. There are official work rules and then
> there's the over and above that they are expected to get done (up to
> twice as many rooms as they are supposed to clean) in order to keep
> their jobs - on top of that, they are part time and on call at the
> drop of a hat. They have weak to non-existent English skills and are
> usually single women with children. What can they do? Someone who
> causes trouble will be fired. They are barely making it week to week
> and don't have the luxury of being able to wait out an appeal process.
> So, they keep their mouths shut and do what they are told because
> there are other female workers with weak to non-existent language
> skills waiting on the sidelines for an available job opening.

Seems to be a common complaint in bottom tier employment of many kinds.

What they can do is learn English, excel at the tasks they do, and
hopefully move up to be the head of housekeeping.

I know this also, if one tips (and one should) they have a shot at
significantly increasing their compensation, whether reported for tax
purposes or not.

We feel housekeeping deserves a nice tip, 5-10$ a day depending on the
price of the room and of course the condition.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/trave...ing17_ST_N.htm
>>
>>> I would guess that
>>> holds true in hotel kitchens too. Not so much at the front desk, but
>>> you never know what they would expect you to do if the union wasn't
>>> watching your back.
>>
>> I'm not in that industry, but whatever those expectations might be they
>> certainly seem invisible to me as a guest.
>
>
>

>> A lie is a deliberate miscoinstruction of the truth in order to deceive.
>
> Yes, I believe you deliberately misled regarding the UAWs role in GM's
> failure.

Wow, I didn't realize I was that good. I mean I am awesome but to be able
to snooker a person who has the very copyright to the facts just amazes even
me.

>> Just because you do not read the same material I do does not make me a
>> liar.
>
> How you choose to brainwash yourself is your own matter, what you do when
> confronted with the actual facts is reprehensible.
>
>> You argue like brain dead republicans.
>
> And you natter and mislead like a bleeding heart lib.

Not a bleeding heart. You have to earn my good graces. But a proud liberal
and one who puts his money where his mouth is, you betcha.

Anyway I have a business to run, you have a business to ruin.



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On 9/2/2014 4:15 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>> A lie is a deliberate miscoinstruction of the truth in order to deceive.
>>
>> Yes, I believe you deliberately misled regarding the UAWs role in GM's
>> failure.
>
> Wow, I didn't realize I was that good.

You mean that bad...

> I mean I am awesome but to be able
> to snooker a person who has the very copyright to the facts just amazes even
> me.

I couldn't say who you may have snookered, but I'm pleased to have
inoculated the thread with factual data.

>>> Just because you do not read the same material I do does not make me a
>>> liar.
>>
>> How you choose to brainwash yourself is your own matter, what you do when
>> confronted with the actual facts is reprehensible.
>>
>>> You argue like brain dead republicans.
>>
>> And you natter and mislead like a bleeding heart lib.
>
> Not a bleeding heart.

So you claim...

> You have to earn my good graces.

I'd be a fool to value them as anything close to good.

> But a proud liberal
> and one who puts his money where his mouth is, you betcha.

Into the black hole of deficit spending?

> Anyway I have a business to run, you have a business to ruin.

Thankfully you're not mismanaging an automaker, so your contagion is
contained.

"Mayo" > wrote in message ...
> On 9/2/2014 12:02 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>>> On 9/1/2014 10:25 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>> The US steelworkers union has
>>>> tried to bring this to public attention for years now.
>>>
>>> Again...which UNION are you on payroll for???
>>
>> All of them.
>
> No, that is yet another lie.

Well OK maybe not the Teamsters.

>> I fully support unions.
>
> No you don't, you mouth that hypocrisy while hiring subcontractors.

Yeah and if you ever had a job you'd know that often those subs are union.
I work in office buildings and often as not my subs must be union to be
allowed to work in the building as required by the building managers. Most
will not permit a non-union electrician for example. And I hire them all
the time.

I fully support and defend unions. I've seen enough sweat shops to know how
bad it can be without them.

>> And I am willing to pay union wages.
>
> But you don't, by your own narrative, you hypocrite.

A hundred bucks an hour to have some pipe run is a union wage. The thing is
all of the people like me are in the same boat in this business. We all
play by the same rules. So it's no big - just the price of business.

>> And have.
>
> Suuuure you have....

You are beginning to really annoy me. I'll be dismising you as a troll.



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On 9/2/2014 2:06 PM, sf wrote:

>>
> And long lines of top-notch job applicants. DD had 6 months off work
> for maternity leave at full pay with zero job related responsibilities
> and taking the time off does not affect future promotions either.
>
>

A generation ago she may not have been hired because she might get
pregnant and leave.

On 9/2/2014 7:09 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>> On 9/2/2014 12:02 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>>>> On 9/1/2014 10:25 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>>> The US steelworkers union has
>>>>> tried to bring this to public attention for years now.
>>>>
>>>> Again...which UNION are you on payroll for???
>>>
>>> All of them.
>>
>> No, that is yet another lie.
>
> Well OK maybe not the Teamsters.

More useless tap dancing.

>>> I fully support unions.
>>
>> No you don't, you mouth that hypocrisy while hiring subcontractors.
>
> Yeah and if you ever had a job you'd know that often those subs are union.

Oh?

Which union?

> I work in office buildings and often as not my subs must be union to be
> allowed to work in the building as required by the building managers.

Do tell...

> Most
> will not permit a non-union electrician for example. And I hire them all
> the time.

Ok, so you're into the IBEW, that's nice, now why are you not hiring
them full time?

> I fully support and defend unions. I've seen enough sweat shops to know how
> bad it can be without them.

You've politicized yourself into a narrow world view where you invent
abuses to fuel your own negative fantasies.

>>> And I am willing to pay union wages.
>>
>> But you don't, by your own narrative, you hypocrite.
>
> A hundred bucks an hour to have some pipe run is a union wage.

So why are they not employees then?

Would you lose your shirt if they were?

And seriously, you're _supporting_ $100'hr. for pipe fitters?

Man, you're nuts.

This is why America can not compete any more.


> The thing is
> all of the people like me are in the same boat in this business.

Which business?

> We all
> play by the same rules. So it's no big - just the price of business.

Which is?

>>> And have.
>>
>> Suuuure you have....
>
> You are beginning to really annoy me. I'll be dismising you as a troll.

The annoyance you feel is wholly due to your own ham-fisted rhetorical
soap-boxing and my swift and factual rebuttals.

In essence, I own you, valueless as that may be, and there is no end to it.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 14:27:15 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> Seems to be a common complaint in bottom tier employment of many kinds.
>
> What they can do is learn English, excel at the tasks they do, and
> hopefully move up to be the head of housekeeping.

What they need is a work environment that models and encourages the
use of English because ESL classes are so impacted. However, it
usually benefits the employer that they never become proficient. I
was once amazed by a "dad" who told me (his English had improved
significantly over the time I was dealing with him) that he was a
mechanic and his boss told him that they were in America and everyone
needed to speak English. His boss had the right idea - he obviously
had confidence in the mechanical skills of his employees and wanted to
increase his business, so he encouraged them to speak English on the
job.
>
> I know this also, if one tips (and one should) they have a shot at
> significantly increasing their compensation, whether reported for tax
> purposes or not.

I wonder if tipping the housekeeping staff is even considered anymore
by people who stay in the cheap motels where they work.
>
> We feel housekeeping deserves a nice tip, 5-10$ a day depending on the
> price of the room and of course the condition.

That's nice, but not reality, in the (lower) tier they worked in.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

Go **** yourself with a razor blade dildo, jackass.

You are killfiled.



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On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:15:15 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On 9/2/2014 2:06 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >>
> > And long lines of top-notch job applicants. DD had 6 months off work
> > for maternity leave at full pay with zero job related responsibilities
> > and taking the time off does not affect future promotions either.
> >
> >
>
> A generation ago she may not have been hired because she might get
> pregnant and leave.

True dat. Now days, they get pregnant and it's not supposed to count
against them... but if they don't check in often and contribute
something during their short maternity leave, they are put on the list
to be let go when chopping time comes.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/2/2014 10:23 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 14:27:15 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> Seems to be a common complaint in bottom tier employment of many kinds.
>>
>> What they can do is learn English, excel at the tasks they do, and
>> hopefully move up to be the head of housekeeping.
>
> What they need is a work environment that models and encourages the
> use of English because ESL classes are so impacted. However, it
> usually benefits the employer that they never become proficient. I
> was once amazed by a "dad" who told me (his English had improved
> significantly over the time I was dealing with him) that he was a
> mechanic and his boss told him that they were in America and everyone
> needed to speak English. His boss had the right idea - he obviously
> had confidence in the mechanical skills of his employees and wanted to
> increase his business, so he encouraged them to speak English on the
> job.

Very cool story.

There is hope.

>>
>> I know this also, if one tips (and one should) they have a shot at
>> significantly increasing their compensation, whether reported for tax
>> purposes or not.
>
> I wonder if tipping the housekeeping staff is even considered anymore
> by people who stay in the cheap motels where they work.

Good question.

I know even in "those days" we always left a couple of dollars -
anecdotal but true.

>>
>> We feel housekeeping deserves a nice tip, 5-10$ a day depending on the
>> price of the room and of course the condition.
>
> That's nice, but not reality, in the (lower) tier they worked in.

Sad.

Well, maybe it's Christmas when they hit our room - plus we towel off
our sink areas.

Most of this is just good manners.

On 9/2/2014 10:23 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> Go **** yourself with a razor blade dildo, jackass.
>
> You are killfiled.
>
>
Great jumping jackrabbits!

Promise???

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 22:27:14 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> > I wonder if tipping the housekeeping staff is even considered anymore
> > by people who stay in the cheap motels where they work.
>
> Good question.
>
> I know even in "those days" we always left a couple of dollars -
> anecdotal but true.

Agree.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/3/2014 12:23 AM, sf wrote:

>
> What they need is a work environment that models and encourages the
> use of English because ESL classes are so impacted. However, it
> usually benefits the employer that they never become proficient. I
> was once amazed by a "dad" who told me (his English had improved
> significantly over the time I was dealing with him) that he was a
> mechanic and his boss told him that they were in America and everyone
> needed to speak English. His boss had the right idea - he obviously
> had confidence in the mechanical skills of his employees and wanted to
> increase his business, so he encouraged them to speak English on the
> job.

Makes sense. My grandfather came from Poland and started a business as
a tailor. He had to learn English to survive. He spoke Polish with some
friends, but never in the store. Since he lived in a predominantly
Polish neighborhood, he would have probably made a living, but with
language skills, he had a rather nice clientele, including the Mayor.


>>


> I wonder if tipping the housekeeping staff is even considered anymore
> by people who stay in the cheap motels where they work.
>>

The amount of work to clean a $29 room is not much different than a $129
room. I bet the tips are far different though.

On 9/2/2014 8:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/2/2014 2:06 PM, sf wrote:
>
>>>
>> And long lines of top-notch job applicants. DD had 6 months off work
>> for maternity leave at full pay with zero job related responsibilities
>> and taking the time off does not affect future promotions either.
>>
>>
>
> A generation ago she may not have been hired because she might get
> pregnant and leave.
I actually was being interviewed by an elderly attorney for a
paralegal job. He (illegally) asked me how many children I had, so I
answered that I had three. Then he said "do you pnal to have any more"
and I said "no thank you"

I didn't get the job. :-)

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 9/2/2014 8:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/2/2014 2:06 PM, sf wrote:
>
>>>
>> And long lines of top-notch job applicants. DD had 6 months off work
>> for maternity leave at full pay with zero job related responsibilities
>> and taking the time off does not affect future promotions either.
>>
>>
>
> A generation ago she may not have been hired because she might get
> pregnant and leave.


Also, in the mid 1960's I interviewed with the telephone company. They
wanted me to sign a paper that said I would not get pregnant for two years.

I figured no job was worth involuntary servitude.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 9/1/2014 6:13 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Sep 2014 17:58:09 -0400, James Silverton
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>> Labor day is one of the four days in the year when my garbage is
>> not collected and neither is the recycling. You just lose a
>> garbage collection but the recyclers come a day later than usual.
>> I'll bet I forget and have bins sitting outside my house for days.
>
> Same here. They guys don't really get a day off, they get to work a
> Saturday, hopefully getting paid OT.
>
> Newspaper was delivered this AM too.


Our garbage collectors are here every Wednesday and Friday, unless it is
a holiday, they take every holiday off. If a holiday is on Wednesday,
then you do not see them until the next scheduled garbage day, which is
Friday. That works well for everyone.

Becca

On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:25:30 -0500, Becca EmaNymton
> wrote:

> Our garbage collectors are here every Wednesday and Friday, unless it is
> a holiday, they take every holiday off. If a holiday is on Wednesday,
> then you do not see them until the next scheduled garbage day, which is
> Friday. That works well for everyone.
>

Garbage pickup twice a week? Wow! How much garbage do you generate?
Is it garbage pickup one day and recycling/compost on the other
or what?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/3/2014 5:08 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:25:30 -0500, Becca EmaNymton
> > wrote:
>
>> Our garbage collectors are here every Wednesday and Friday, unless it is
>> a holiday, they take every holiday off. If a holiday is on Wednesday,
>> then you do not see them until the next scheduled garbage day, which is
>> Friday. That works well for everyone.
>>
>
> Garbage pickup twice a week? Wow! How much garbage do you generate?
> Is it garbage pickup one day and recycling/compost on the other
> or what?
>
>
I have had garbage collected twice a week ever since I moved into my
house 30 years ago. This was standard then and the collection is on
Mondays and Thursdays except for four holidays. Very recently, the
garbage company has offered once a week collection at a reduced price.
Given the summer temperatures here, twice a week is very suitable. The
recyclers are under contract to the county and come once a week. If
there is a holiday, the collection day is displaced one day.

We contract individually for garbage collection with the very reliable
company that I use. It might be possible to use the county's contractors
but that would require a majority vote of the home owners association
and that, tho' proposed, has never been attained.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 9/3/2014 9:53 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 9/2/2014 8:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 9/2/2014 2:06 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>> And long lines of top-notch job applicants. DD had 6 months off work
>>> for maternity leave at full pay with zero job related responsibilities
>>> and taking the time off does not affect future promotions either.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> A generation ago she may not have been hired because she might get
>> pregnant and leave.
> I actually was being interviewed by an elderly attorney for a
> paralegal job. He (illegally) asked me how many children I had, so I
> answered that I had three. Then he said "do you pnal to have any more"
> and I said "no thank you"
>
> I didn't get the job. :-)
>
LOL!

His name wasn't Sheldon by any chance was it?

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/3/2014 5:08 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:25:30 -0500, Becca EmaNymton
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Our garbage collectors are here every Wednesday and Friday, unless it is
>>> a holiday, they take every holiday off. If a holiday is on Wednesday,
>>> then you do not see them until the next scheduled garbage day, which is
>>> Friday. That works well for everyone.
>>>
>>
>> Garbage pickup twice a week? Wow! How much garbage do you generate?
>> Is it garbage pickup one day and recycling/compost on the other
>> or what?
>>
>>
> I have had garbage collected twice a week ever since I moved into my house
> 30 years ago. This was standard then and the collection is on Mondays and
> Thursdays except for four holidays. Very recently, the garbage company has
> offered once a week collection at a reduced price. Given the summer
> temperatures here, twice a week is very suitable. The recyclers are under
> contract to the county and come once a week. If there is a holiday, the
> collection day is displaced one day.
>
> We contract individually for garbage collection with the very reliable
> company that I use. It might be possible to use the county's contractors
> but that would require a majority vote of the home owners association and
> that, tho' proposed, has never been attained.

Oh wow! I wish! We have garbage and yard waste weekly but our recycling is
every other week. We have more recycling than anything else so I would love
that to be weekly. Bothell proper gets weekly but we're outside of the city
limits.

On 9/3/2014 4:08 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:25:30 -0500, Becca EmaNymton
> > wrote:
>
>> Our garbage collectors are here every Wednesday and Friday, unless it is
>> a holiday, they take every holiday off. If a holiday is on Wednesday,
>> then you do not see them until the next scheduled garbage day, which is
>> Friday. That works well for everyone.
>>
>
> Garbage pickup twice a week? Wow! How much garbage do you generate?
> Is it garbage pickup one day and recycling/compost on the other
> or what?

Unfortunately, our city does not recycle, so we have one container of
garbage each garbage day, and they take up to 15 containers or bags of
garbage each garbage day. They take large pieces on Friday, such as
furniture, appliances.

When we lived in a city that did recycle, we had very little garbage,
because the city recycled almost everything. We also composted, so we
would have maybe a gallon of garbage that contained bones, chewing gum,
light bulbs, batteries and coated cardboard.

Becca

On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 11:32:04 -0500, Becca EmaNymton
> wrote:

> On 9/3/2014 4:08 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:25:30 -0500, Becca EmaNymton
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Our garbage collectors are here every Wednesday and Friday, unless it is
> >> a holiday, they take every holiday off. If a holiday is on Wednesday,
> >> then you do not see them until the next scheduled garbage day, which is
> >> Friday. That works well for everyone.
> >>
> >
> > Garbage pickup twice a week? Wow! How much garbage do you generate?
> > Is it garbage pickup one day and recycling/compost on the other
> > or what?
>
> Unfortunately, our city does not recycle, so we have one container of
> garbage each garbage day, and they take up to 15 containers or bags of
> garbage each garbage day. They take large pieces on Friday, such as
> furniture, appliances.

That's a great service! Ours is pretty good too. We call and make an
appointment when we need them to pickup large items, but we only get
two pickups a year... not that I even manage to use one of them on a
yearly basis, but now I have "pick-up" envy!
>
> When we lived in a city that did recycle, we had very little garbage,
> because the city recycled almost everything. We also composted, so we
> would have maybe a gallon of garbage that contained bones, chewing gum,
> light bulbs, batteries and coated cardboard.
>

That must have been a huge cultural change for you to get used to. At
least you don't have to make the dump runs yourself.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.