On 2014-09-05 23:39, jmcquown wrote:

>>> people here bitching about food at amusement parks being nutritious or
>>> not. LOL!
>>
>> Amusement park food and Fair food are glaring examples of why
>> Americans are so fat.
>>
> I'm American, I don't go to fairs or amusement parks. Is that why I'm
> not fat?


To be fair Jill, there are a lot of very fit Americans. There are enough
Olympic medals that have gone to Americans to support that. I see lots
of very fit looking Americans. You can consider yourself lucky to be
thin and fit looking. However... you have to admit that a lot of your
countrymen have weight issues. We have our share of overweight and obese
people up here, but I have to tell you that when I cross the border I
see whole new dimensions of fat. Not everyone, not a majority, only a
small percentage, but they are way fatter than you see in other places.

On 9/6/2014 12:08 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2014-09-05 23:39, jmcquown wrote:
>
>>>> people here bitching about food at amusement parks being nutritious or
>>>> not. LOL!
>>>
>>> Amusement park food and Fair food are glaring examples of why
>>> Americans are so fat.
>>>
>> I'm American, I don't go to fairs or amusement parks. Is that why I'm
>> not fat?
>
>
> To be fair Jill, there are a lot of very fit Americans. There are enough
> Olympic medals that have gone to Americans to support that. I see lots
> of very fit looking Americans. You can consider yourself lucky to be
> thin and fit looking. However... you have to admit that a lot of your
> countrymen have weight issues. We have our share of overweight and obese
> people up here, but I have to tell you that when I cross the border I
> see whole new dimensions of fat. Not everyone, not a majority, only a
> small percentage, but they are way fatter than you see in other places.

True enough. But to label all Americans as fat is simply wrong. I'm
sure there are plenty of fat people in France or Italy, too. There
certainly were fat Thai and Chinese people in Bangkok.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/6/2014 12:08 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-09-05 23:39, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>>>> people here bitching about food at amusement parks being nutritious or
>>>>> not. LOL!
>>>>
>>>> Amusement park food and Fair food are glaring examples of why
>>>> Americans are so fat.
>>>>
>>> I'm American, I don't go to fairs or amusement parks. Is that why I'm
>>> not fat?
>>
>>
>> To be fair Jill, there are a lot of very fit Americans. There are enough
>> Olympic medals that have gone to Americans to support that. I see lots
>> of very fit looking Americans. You can consider yourself lucky to be
>> thin and fit looking. However... you have to admit that a lot of your
>> countrymen have weight issues. We have our share of overweight and obese
>> people up here, but I have to tell you that when I cross the border I
>> see whole new dimensions of fat. Not everyone, not a majority, only a
>> small percentage, but they are way fatter than you see in other places.
>
> True enough. But to label all Americans as fat is simply wrong. I'm sure
> there are plenty of fat people in France or Italy, too. There certainly
> were fat Thai and Chinese people in Bangkok.
>
> Jill

From what I have read online and in magazines and books there is no such
thing as a fat French person.

"Julie Bove" wrote in message ...


"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/6/2014 12:08 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-09-05 23:39, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>>>> people here bitching about food at amusement parks being nutritious or
>>>>> not. LOL!
>>>>
>>>> Amusement park food and Fair food are glaring examples of why
>>>> Americans are so fat.
>>>>
>>> I'm American, I don't go to fairs or amusement parks. Is that why I'm
>>> not fat?
>>
>>
>> To be fair Jill, there are a lot of very fit Americans. There are enough
>> Olympic medals that have gone to Americans to support that. I see lots
>> of very fit looking Americans. You can consider yourself lucky to be
>> thin and fit looking. However... you have to admit that a lot of your
>> countrymen have weight issues. We have our share of overweight and obese
>> people up here, but I have to tell you that when I cross the border I
>> see whole new dimensions of fat. Not everyone, not a majority, only a
>> small percentage, but they are way fatter than you see in other places.
>
> True enough. But to label all Americans as fat is simply wrong. I'm sure
> there are plenty of fat people in France or Italy, too. There certainly
> were fat Thai and Chinese people in Bangkok.
>
> Jill

From what I have read online and in magazines and books there is no such
thing as a fat French person.

~~~~~~~
That's ridiculous. There certainly are fat people in France (or just about
any place), but it is true that the *proportions* are different. Even in
the US, the percentage of obese people is far different today than when I
was young. Ironically, there were almost no fat children in school when I
was a youngster--I can really only think of one person in my class who was
truly obese when I was young. By contrast, years later we had a great many
obese students in my class when I was teaching.

MaryL

"MaryL" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Julie Bove" wrote in message ...
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 9/6/2014 12:08 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2014-09-05 23:39, jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> people here bitching about food at amusement parks being nutritious
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> not. LOL!
>>>>>
>>>>> Amusement park food and Fair food are glaring examples of why
>>>>> Americans are so fat.
>>>>>
>>>> I'm American, I don't go to fairs or amusement parks. Is that why I'm
>>>> not fat?
>>>
>>>
>>> To be fair Jill, there are a lot of very fit Americans. There are enough
>>> Olympic medals that have gone to Americans to support that. I see lots
>>> of very fit looking Americans. You can consider yourself lucky to be
>>> thin and fit looking. However... you have to admit that a lot of your
>>> countrymen have weight issues. We have our share of overweight and obese
>>> people up here, but I have to tell you that when I cross the border I
>>> see whole new dimensions of fat. Not everyone, not a majority, only a
>>> small percentage, but they are way fatter than you see in other places.
>>
>> True enough. But to label all Americans as fat is simply wrong. I'm
>> sure there are plenty of fat people in France or Italy, too. There
>> certainly were fat Thai and Chinese people in Bangkok.
>>
>> Jill
>
> From what I have read online and in magazines and books there is no such
> thing as a fat French person.
>
> ~~~~~~~
> That's ridiculous. There certainly are fat people in France (or just
> about any place), but it is true that the *proportions* are different.
> Even in the US, the percentage of obese people is far different today than
> when I was young. Ironically, there were almost no fat children in school
> when I was a youngster--I can really only think of one person in my class
> who was truly obese when I was young. By contrast, years later we had a
> great many obese students in my class when I was teaching.

We had fat people when I was in school. And I haven't seen proportionally
any more fat people at my daughter's school. I have seen more fat adults
but my mom claims they were always around. They just stayed home. Don't
know if that is true or not.

On 2014-09-06 2:13 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 9/6/2014 12:08 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-09-05 23:39, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>>>> people here bitching about food at amusement parks being nutritious or
>>>>> not. LOL!
>>>>
>>>> Amusement park food and Fair food are glaring examples of why
>>>> Americans are so fat.
>>>>
>>> I'm American, I don't go to fairs or amusement parks. Is that why I'm
>>> not fat?
>>
>>
>> To be fair Jill, there are a lot of very fit Americans. There are enough
>> Olympic medals that have gone to Americans to support that. I see lots
>> of very fit looking Americans. You can consider yourself lucky to be
>> thin and fit looking. However... you have to admit that a lot of your
>> countrymen have weight issues. We have our share of overweight and obese
>> people up here, but I have to tell you that when I cross the border I
>> see whole new dimensions of fat. Not everyone, not a majority, only a
>> small percentage, but they are way fatter than you see in other places.
>
> True enough. But to label all Americans as fat is simply wrong. I'm
> sure there are plenty of fat people in France or Italy, too. There
> certainly were fat Thai and Chinese people in Bangkok.
>

I don't label Americans as fat. Having been to France several times, I
don't think you can say they have the same obesity issues as Americans.
In fact, I get annoyed when I hear NA women whinging about fashions
catering to women are unhealthily thin. Paris is a major fashion center
and from my observations, Parisians tend to be thin.

I agree that it is unfair to label all Americans as fat. While they may
tend to be larger than some Europeans it should be pointed out that a
lot of them are bigger because they are stronger and more fit. While
you may see more fat people in the US than in Europe, you will also see
a lot of very active, very fit people.

> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 05:41:24 -0500, "MaryL"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>From what I have read online and in magazines and books there is no such
>>thing as a fat French person.
>>
>>~~~~~~~
>>That's ridiculous. There certainly are fat people in France (or just
>>about
>>any place), but it is true that the *proportions* are different. Even in
>>the US, the percentage of obese people is far different today than when I
>>was young. Ironically, there were almost no fat children in school when I
>>was a youngster--I can really only think of one person in my class who was
>>truly obese when I was young. By contrast, years later we had a great
>>many
>>obese students in my class when I was teaching.
>>
>>MaryL
>
> You're so right - looking back through some pics of my kids (they're
> in their 50s now) when they were the 8-12 year old era, all the kids
> look so skinny by todays standards. In part it was better eating and
> in part it was more exercise. I don't just mean soccer, swimming,
> etc. I mean running the neighbourhood with their friends, riding their
> bikes everywhere, active from dawn to dusk.

Very true.

Cheri

On 9/6/2014 8:00 AM, wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 05:41:24 -0500, "MaryL"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>From what I have read online and in magazines and books there is no such
>> thing as a fat French person.
>>
>> ~~~~~~~
>> That's ridiculous. There certainly are fat people in France (or just about
>> any place), but it is true that the *proportions* are different. Even in
>> the US, the percentage of obese people is far different today than when I
>> was young. Ironically, there were almost no fat children in school when I
>> was a youngster--I can really only think of one person in my class who was
>> truly obese when I was young. By contrast, years later we had a great many
>> obese students in my class when I was teaching.
>>
>> MaryL
>
> You're so right - looking back through some pics of my kids (they're
> in their 50s now) when they were the 8-12 year old era, all the kids
> look so skinny by todays standards. In part it was better eating and
> in part it was more exercise. I don't just mean soccer, swimming,
> etc. I mean running the neighbourhood with their friends, riding their
> bikes everywhere, active from dawn to dusk.
>
As kids, my brothers and our friends were always out riding our bikes or
roller skating. Running around playing tag, hide and seek or other
outdoor games. As you say, we were active from the time we got up until
time to come inside at dusk. In many of the places I lived we *walked*
to and from school.

Something like a piece of candy or a scoop of ice cream was a treat, not
a given. Kids need to get off their butts, go outside and learn to play
again. It was fun!

Jill

"jmcquown" wrote in message ...

On 9/6/2014 8:00 AM, wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 05:41:24 -0500, "MaryL"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>From what I have read online and in magazines and books there is no such
>> thing as a fat French person.
>>
>> ~~~~~~~
>> That's ridiculous. There certainly are fat people in France (or just
>> about
>> any place), but it is true that the *proportions* are different. Even in
>> the US, the percentage of obese people is far different today than when I
>> was young. Ironically, there were almost no fat children in school when
>> I
>> was a youngster--I can really only think of one person in my class who
>> was
>> truly obese when I was young. By contrast, years later we had a great
>> many
>> obese students in my class when I was teaching.
>>
>> MaryL
>
> You're so right - looking back through some pics of my kids (they're
> in their 50s now) when they were the 8-12 year old era, all the kids
> look so skinny by todays standards. In part it was better eating and
> in part it was more exercise. I don't just mean soccer, swimming,
> etc. I mean running the neighbourhood with their friends, riding their
> bikes everywhere, active from dawn to dusk.
>
As kids, my brothers and our friends were always out riding our bikes or
roller skating. Running around playing tag, hide and seek or other
outdoor games. As you say, we were active from the time we got up until
time to come inside at dusk. In many of the places I lived we *walked*
to and from school.

Something like a piece of candy or a scoop of ice cream was a treat, not
a given. Kids need to get off their butts, go outside and learn to play
again. It was fun!

Jill

~~~~~~~
I do think technology has a lot to do with how little exercise many people
get today. We did not have TV in our house until I was a senior in high
school, and cell phones had not been invented. TVs had been around for a
long time, but my parents were "hold-outs." Even when they did get
television, they had a strict limit on the amount of time it could be used
(which affected my younger brother and sister more than me because I left
for college a year later). I did spend a lot of time on sedentary
activities because I was a true book-worm and I had a lot of homework, but
that was primarily done in the evening after sunset. I was on swim teams,
did a lot of horseback riding, roller skating, bike riding, walking, etc. I
walked almost a mile to school until we were shifted to a school farther
away, and then we used the school bus. In addition to technology, I think
parents today are so fearful that they drive children everywhere from a very
young age--a real loss of independence, in my opinion. I used to ride my
bicycle or horse to my grandparents' home in the summer, a distance of about
4 miles each way. Today, many people would claim that it is "neglect" if my
mother did not keep her eyes on each child "every minute." I understand the
fear that people have, but I think overprotection has brought some real
costs. Ironically, one of those costs is loss of exercise, and that means
poor health.

MaryL

"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 05:41:24 -0500, "MaryL"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>From what I have read online and in magazines and books there is no such
>>>thing as a fat French person.
>>>
>>>~~~~~~~
>>>That's ridiculous. There certainly are fat people in France (or just
>>>about
>>>any place), but it is true that the *proportions* are different. Even in
>>>the US, the percentage of obese people is far different today than when I
>>>was young. Ironically, there were almost no fat children in school when
>>>I
>>>was a youngster--I can really only think of one person in my class who
>>>was
>>>truly obese when I was young. By contrast, years later we had a great
>>>many
>>>obese students in my class when I was teaching.
>>>
>>>MaryL
>>
>> You're so right - looking back through some pics of my kids (they're
>> in their 50s now) when they were the 8-12 year old era, all the kids
>> look so skinny by todays standards. In part it was better eating and
>> in part it was more exercise. I don't just mean soccer, swimming,
>> etc. I mean running the neighbourhood with their friends, riding their
>> bikes everywhere, active from dawn to dusk.
>
> Very true.

Most of the kids I see are at the dance studio and most of them are very
skinny. But a lot of them are dancing 12+ hours a week and don't always get
regular meals.

On 9/6/2014 7:25 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>


> Most of the kids I see are at the dance studio and most of them are very
> skinny. But a lot of them are dancing 12+ hours a week and don't always
> get regular meals.


I'd attribute that to poor parenting. Good parents don't put dance (or
sports) over proper nutrition.

On 2014-09-06 19:25, Julie Bove wrote:

>
> Most of the kids I see are at the dance studio and most of them are very
> skinny.


Skinny like your daughter?
For those who have not seen pictures of her, she is not skinny, not by
any stretch of the imagination.

On 9/6/2014 7:23 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2014-09-06 19:25, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>
>> Most of the kids I see are at the dance studio and most of them are very
>> skinny.
>
>
> Skinny like your daughter?
> For those who have not seen pictures of her, she is not skinny, not by
> any stretch of the imagination.
>

Come on man, that's off limits.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> As kids, my brothers and our friends were always out riding our bikes or
> roller skating. Running around playing tag, hide and seek or other
> outdoor games. As you say, we were active from the time we got up until
> time to come inside at dusk. In many of the places I lived we *walked* to
> and from school.
>
> Something like a piece of candy or a scoop of ice cream was a treat, not a
> given. Kids need to get off their butts, go outside and learn to play
> again. It was fun!

We walked to school. I think my elementary school had a bus. Not sure
where it went. There were two at my Jr. High. And I think two at my high
school. In those days if you lived within 2 miles of the school, you had to
walk. Now it is something like 2 blocks.

We did play outside in the winter for perhaps part of a day or two if there
was snow. We hated it but my mom always sent us out in it. We did also
some in the summer but often our weather here doesn't bode well for being
outdoors. But we were active.

I danced, played sports, took swimming lessons. My brother did the swimming
and karate or something like that for a few years. We also put on a lot of
shows in our garage. Dancing, singing and little comedy stints. We were
much more creative in those days because we had to be. Our toys didn't
really do much of anything.

I went to a birthday party for one of the girls at the dance studio. My
daughter gave her a cute stuffed animal. She looked it over and over and
said to her mom, "What does it do?" And then she seemed disappointed that
it didn't actually do anything. At least we didn't get her a Pillow Pet.
That was the year those came out. About 80% of what she got were those with
the majority of them being the lady bug. We were sorely tempted to get the
lady bug too!

"MaryL" > wrote in message
...

> I do think technology has a lot to do with how little exercise many people
> get today. We did not have TV in our house until I was a senior in high
> school, and cell phones had not been invented. TVs had been around for a
> long time, but my parents were "hold-outs." Even when they did get
> television, they had a strict limit on the amount of time it could be used
> (which affected my younger brother and sister more than me because I left
> for college a year later). I did spend a lot of time on sedentary
> activities because I was a true book-worm and I had a lot of homework, but
> that was primarily done in the evening after sunset. I was on swim teams,
> did a lot of horseback riding, roller skating, bike riding, walking, etc.
> I walked almost a mile to school until we were shifted to a school farther
> away, and then we used the school bus. In addition to technology, I think
> parents today are so fearful that they drive children everywhere from a
> very young age--a real loss of independence, in my opinion. I used to
> ride my bicycle or horse to my grandparents' home in the summer, a
> distance of about 4 miles each way. Today, many people would claim that
> it is "neglect" if my mother did not keep her eyes on each child "every
> minute." I understand the fear that people have, but I think
> overprotection has brought some real costs. Ironically, one of those
> costs is loss of exercise, and that means poor health.
>
> MaryL

We had a TV and we did watch it but rarely just sat and watched it. I was
either jumping rope using the ankle thing...not sure what it was
called...had a loop that went around the ankle, a cord and a plastic lemon
on the end. You made it spin around your leg and hopped over it. Or I was
tumbling, dancing or just plain stretching.

I was just reading something in a magazine but can't remember which one. It
said that these days kids often reach their teens and have never been away
from their parents or some other adult. Someone is always there to manage
things for them. That is pretty true with my daughter but not for the lack
of trying on my part. I tried for years to get her to do things on her own.
Like go into a store and buy something. But she was fearful, most likely
because of the way other people who shall go unnamed had treated her and
still do. You're too young to do that! Something bad might happen!

But now all of a sudden she is wanting to do things on her own but doesn't
really know how to do them. When I was a kid, my mom would give me money
and have me walk to the store to buy things. That couldn't happen here as
there is no safe way to walk to any of the nearby stores. I could get her
to go into two businesses where we knew the owners and she would shop in
there for presents and such. But if I were to sit outside of the drugstore
and tell her to go in and buy something, she would refuse. Terrified of
some unknown thing that might possibly happen to her.

I was also reading that the world now isn't really all that more dangerous
for kids than it was when we were kids but our perceptions of it is. Most
likely to TV and the Internet. We see that something bad happened to some
kid and all of a sudden we see danger lurking at every turn.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/6/2014 7:25 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>
>
>> Most of the kids I see are at the dance studio and most of them are very
>> skinny. But a lot of them are dancing 12+ hours a week and don't always
>> get regular meals.
>
>
> I'd attribute that to poor parenting. Good parents don't put dance (or
> sports) over proper nutrition.

They tell me that the kids won't eat. One of the moms of such a kid is a
Dr. Yep. MD. Go figure. Things have gotten so bad that the dance
teachers have had to make kids sit out and eat. If they have no food, they
have to provide it for them.

Apparently there are quite a lot of kids who have little to no interest in
food. I saw a lot of them when we lived in military housing in CA. My kid
was never that way and neither was I so I couldn't relate. If left to their
own devices, those kids would just play and play until they collapsed. They
did drink a lot of juice. I'm sure that didn't help because juice can be
filling and it doesn't provide a lot of nutrients. So the parents would
stop them from playing every now and then and insist that they eat 5 bites
of a meal. Just five bites! The kids acted like it was torture.

What I don't get with some of the dance kids is that their parents tell me
that they won't eat protein. They'll tell me that they'll eat bagels,
pasta, crackers, bread, etc. And that is what I see them eat. They have it
in their bags. And while I'm sure they do need the carbs because they are
active, if I had a kid like that, I would make it a rule that they did not
go to dance until they ate some form of protein. I don't have to do this
with my kid because she knows what a balanced meal is and she makes sure
that she eats one. I also never had to push her to eat vegetables but for a
time she had an extreme fondness for canned green beans.

People also seem to be very good at making excuses for why things are the
way they are. And those excuses don't always make sense to me.

"Mayo" > wrote in message ...
> On 9/6/2014 7:23 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-09-06 19:25, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Most of the kids I see are at the dance studio and most of them are very
>>> skinny.
>>
>>
>> Skinny like your daughter?
>> For those who have not seen pictures of her, she is not skinny, not by
>> any stretch of the imagination.
>>
>
> Come on man, that's off limits.

Indeed. I said that most of them are skinny. We have people of all shapes
and sizes at the dance studio.

On 9/7/2014 6:01 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "MaryL" > wrote in message
> ...

>> In addition to technology, I think parents today
>> are so fearful that they drive children everywhere from a very young
>> age--a real loss of independence, in my opinion. I used to ride my
>> bicycle or horse to my grandparents' home in the summer, a distance of
>> about 4 miles each way. Today, many people would claim that it is
>> "neglect" if my mother did not keep her eyes on each child "every
>> minute."
>> MaryL
>

> I was just reading something in a magazine but can't remember which
> one. It said that these days kids often reach their teens and have
> never been away from their parents or some other adult.

>
> I could get her to go into two businesses where we knew the
> owners and she would shop in there for presents and such. But if I were
> to sit outside of the drugstore and tell her to go in and buy something,
> she would refuse. Terrified of some unknown thing that might possibly
> happen to her.
>
> I was also reading that the world now isn't really all that more
> dangerous for kids than it was when we were kids but our perceptions of
> it is.

Kids are over protected in many cases. Recently a mother in NYC was
taken to task for letting her son take the subway home alone When I was
8, I'd take a bus, train, then trolly to go to my grandmothers house.
Couple of years older, we'd take the same route even longer to center
city Philadelphia.

After school, we'd get on our bikes and be gone until dinner time.

We thought nothing of it yet we are raising a generation of sissies.

On 9/7/2014 7:42 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Kids are over protected in many cases. Recently a mother in NYC was
> taken to task for letting her son take the subway home alone When I was
> 8, I'd take a bus, train, then trolly to go to my grandmothers house.
> Couple of years older, we'd take the same route even longer to center
> city Philadelphia.
>
> After school, we'd get on our bikes and be gone until dinner time.

Same here, even in the dodgy neighborhood we lived in when I was
young.

> We thought nothing of it yet we are raising a generation of sissies.

Just a couple of days ago, I noticed school was back in session
because all the parents were waiting for the bus with their kids.
I thought to myself, poor kids are never left with a moment to
themselves any more.

nancy

On 2014-09-07 8:06 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 9/7/2014 7:42 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Kids are over protected in many cases. Recently a mother in NYC was
>> taken to task for letting her son take the subway home alone When I was
>> 8, I'd take a bus, train, then trolly to go to my grandmothers house.
>> Couple of years older, we'd take the same route even longer to center
>> city Philadelphia.
>>
>> After school, we'd get on our bikes and be gone until dinner time.
>
> Same here, even in the dodgy neighborhood we lived in when I was
> young.
>
>> We thought nothing of it yet we are raising a generation of sissies.
>
> Just a couple of days ago, I noticed school was back in session
> because all the parents were waiting for the bus with their kids.
> I thought to myself, poor kids are never left with a moment to
> themselves any more.

My next door neighbour used to drive her kids to catch the school bus.
The bus stopped at the end of their driveway, which is about 120 yards.
They were in high school at the time. It is little wonder that the older
son was being bullied at school... by the girls.

On 2014-09-07 7:42 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Kids are over protected in many cases. Recently a mother in NYC was
> taken to task for letting her son take the subway home alone When I was
> 8, I'd take a bus, train, then trolly to go to my grandmothers house.
> Couple of years older, we'd take the same route even longer to center
> city Philadelphia.

I remember being taken to the west end of Toronto to catch a street car
to my grandparent's house in the east end of the city. I was 8 and my
little brother was 6. We had instructions for the transfers we had to make.

>
> After school, we'd get on our bikes and be gone until dinner time.


Weekends and summer holidays we were given a good breakfast and sent out
to play. Bicycle hikes were popular and we went for miles. We were
supposed to come home for lunch, or my mother would pack a lunch for us.


>
> We thought nothing of it yet we are raising a generation of sissies.


My nephews kids were not allowed to go to the park alone, and the park
was across the street. It is ironic because when that nephew was younger
he went to Africa for a couple years. When my son was 19 he went to
Africa for a year to work for his cousin.

On 9/7/2014 8:20 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2014-09-07 8:06 AM, Nancy Young wrote:

>> Just a couple of days ago, I noticed school was back in session
>> because all the parents were waiting for the bus with their kids.
>> I thought to myself, poor kids are never left with a moment to
>> themselves any more.
>
> My next door neighbour used to drive her kids to catch the school bus.
> The bus stopped at the end of their driveway, which is about 120 yards.
> They were in high school at the time. It is little wonder that the older
> son was being bullied at school... by the girls.

I've seen that, too, people drive five houses down to pick up
their kid from the stop. I don't want to be all When I was a kid,
snow, uphill blah blah but it's just strange to me.

nancy

On 9/7/2014 8:06 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 9/7/2014 7:42 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


> Just a couple of days ago, I noticed school was back in session
> because all the parents were waiting for the bus with their kids.
> I thought to myself, poor kids are never left with a moment to
> themselves any more.
>
> nancy

Just waiting? I see at least three spots where the parent lets the kid
sit in the car until the bus comes. I'm talking sunny days at 60
degrees. Mommy drives a half block to the bus stop with their 14 year
old baby. It is not like a stop on the way to work, mommy goes back
home again. This is in a nice, safe, small suburban town.

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 7:44:55 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:42:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On 9/7/2014 6:01 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> "MaryL" > wrote in message
>
> >> ...
>
> >
>
> >>> In addition to technology, I think parents today
>
> >>> are so fearful that they drive children everywhere from a very young
>
> >>> age--a real loss of independence, in my opinion. I used to ride my
>
> >>> bicycle or horse to my grandparents' home in the summer, a distance of
>
> >>> about 4 miles each way. Today, many people would claim that it is
>
> >>> "neglect" if my mother did not keep her eyes on each child "every
>
> >>> minute."
>
> >>> MaryL
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >> I was just reading something in a magazine but can't remember which
>
> >> one. It said that these days kids often reach their teens and have
>
> >> never been away from their parents or some other adult.
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >> I could get her to go into two businesses where we knew the
>
> >> owners and she would shop in there for presents and such. But if I were
>
> >> to sit outside of the drugstore and tell her to go in and buy something,
>
> >> she would refuse. Terrified of some unknown thing that might possibly
>
> >> happen to her.
>
> >>
>
> >> I was also reading that the world now isn't really all that more
>
> >> dangerous for kids than it was when we were kids but our perceptions of
>
> >> it is.
>
> >
>
> >Kids are over protected in many cases. Recently a mother in NYC was
>
> >taken to task for letting her son take the subway home alone When I was
>
> >8, I'd take a bus, train, then trolly to go to my grandmothers house.
>
> >Couple of years older, we'd take the same route even longer to center
>
> >city Philadelphia.
>
> >
>
> >After school, we'd get on our bikes and be gone until dinner time.
>
> >
>
> >We thought nothing of it yet we are raising a generation of sissies.
>
>
>
> Talking about my great granddaughter going out to play, my
>
> granddaughter was telling me 'it's different now, kids are grabbed by
>
> people from vans' etc etc. I asked her to name me ONE case of that
>
> happening in either Halifax or Dartmouth, she couldn't. It's a myth.
>
>
>
> The helicopter parenting has to end, the very worst aspect of it is
>
> the parents arranging 'play dates' for their kids. How do they grow
>
> up learning to judge other people for themselves ?? I heard one of
>
> our university profs saying the other day he is sick and tired of
>
> dealing with parents as opposed to students, even at that level they
>
> still seek to live/order/control their kids lives. Poor kids ! I'm
>
> not sorry I don't have much more time here

I agree 100%. I have told off a lot of folks who disagreed, and not
just on the internet. Folks who watch a lot of TV tend to be stupid.
What's especially fun to tell folks is that a child is far more likely
to be molested by a priest than a stranger.

--Bryan

On 9/7/2014 9:34 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/7/2014 8:06 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>> On 9/7/2014 7:42 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
>> Just a couple of days ago, I noticed school was back in session
>> because all the parents were waiting for the bus with their kids.
>> I thought to myself, poor kids are never left with a moment to
>> themselves any more.

> Just waiting? I see at least three spots where the parent lets the kid
> sit in the car until the bus comes. I'm talking sunny days at 60
> degrees. Mommy drives a half block to the bus stop with their 14 year
> old baby. It is not like a stop on the way to work, mommy goes back
> home again. This is in a nice, safe, small suburban town.

Ditto. The school buses make a lot of stops, not like they
have to walk a mile to some main juncture. But they drive
the kids to the corner and wait with them, in the car, out
of the car, whichever.

This is just a grassy, treed neighborhood where there isn't
even through traffic.

nancy

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> I was also reading that the world now isn't really all that more dangerous
> for kids than it was when we were kids but our perceptions of it is. Most
> likely to TV and the Internet. We see that something bad happened to some
> kid and all of a sudden we see danger lurking at every turn.

Back when I was a kid, we all played "Army" all the time. We got toy
guns and real helmets and other things from surplus stores for
Christmas. When we got older, we even had BB gun wars and wore
glasses.

IMO, this let us get all the young boy aggression out as play and we
became responsible adults. Then my hippy generation became parents and
didn't let their kids play "Army." Since they didn't get this
aggression/violence out of their systems as kids, they grew up to form
gangs and use real guns to kill "the enemy."

On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:42:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 9/7/2014 6:01 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "MaryL" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> In addition to technology, I think parents today
>>> are so fearful that they drive children everywhere from a very young
>>> age--a real loss of independence, in my opinion. I used to ride my
>>> bicycle or horse to my grandparents' home in the summer, a distance of
>>> about 4 miles each way. Today, many people would claim that it is
>>> "neglect" if my mother did not keep her eyes on each child "every
>>> minute."
>>> MaryL
>>
>
>> I was just reading something in a magazine but can't remember which
>> one. It said that these days kids often reach their teens and have
>> never been away from their parents or some other adult.
>
>>
>> I could get her to go into two businesses where we knew the
>> owners and she would shop in there for presents and such. But if I were
>> to sit outside of the drugstore and tell her to go in and buy something,
>> she would refuse. Terrified of some unknown thing that might possibly
>> happen to her.
>>
>> I was also reading that the world now isn't really all that more
>> dangerous for kids than it was when we were kids but our perceptions of
>> it is.
>
>Kids are over protected in many cases. Recently a mother in NYC was
>taken to task for letting her son take the subway home alone When I was
>8, I'd take a bus, train, then trolly to go to my grandmothers house.
>Couple of years older, we'd take the same route even longer to center
>city Philadelphia.
>
>After school, we'd get on our bikes and be gone until dinner time.
>
>We thought nothing of it yet we are raising a generation of sissies.

At eight years old I rode the NYC subways to wherever I wanted, often
from Brooklyn to the Bronx zoo.... I'd ride my bike everywhere, to
Prospect Park to Rockaway Playland to Central Park, wherever I wanted.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

On 9/7/2014 8:06 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 9/7/2014 7:42 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


> Just a couple of days ago, I noticed school was back in session
> because all the parents were waiting for the bus with their kids.
> I thought to myself, poor kids are never left with a moment to
> themselves any more.
>
> nancy

Just waiting? I see at least three spots where the parent lets the kid
sit in the car until the bus comes. I'm talking sunny days at 60
degrees. Mommy drives a half block to the bus stop with their 14 year
old baby. It is not like a stop on the way to work, mommy goes back
home again. This is in a nice, safe, small suburban town.

~~~~~~~~
Even worse, many parents here will not let their children walk to school
(short distance) *or* ride the school bus. Instead, they drive them to
school and pick them up afterwards. There is a very long line of cars
waiting outside the school every afternoon. They make it almost impossible
for other people to drive by the school because they block the road with
long lines of cars waiting to pick up their sons or daughters. This is a
small, pleasant community.

MaryL

Bryan-TGWWW wrote:
>
> Folks who watch a lot of TV tend to be stupid.

LMAO. You moron. You don't watch tv and you're one of the weirdest
people to post here.

On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 09:57:27 -0500, "MaryL"
> wrote:

> Even worse, many parents here will not let their children walk to school
> (short distance) *or* ride the school bus. Instead, they drive them to
> school and pick them up afterwards. There is a very long line of cars
> waiting outside the school every afternoon. They make it almost impossible
> for other people to drive by the school because they block the road with
> long lines of cars waiting to pick up their sons or daughters. This is a
> small, pleasant community.
>

Worse than that, the parent who does give their child a bike to ride
to school is pitied as being "too poor" to afford a car by judgmental
people who don't know anything about their situation other than the
child rides a bike to school every day.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

In article >,
says...

> I remember being taken to the west end of Toronto to catch a street car
> to my grandparent's house in the east end of the city. I was 8 and my
> little brother was 6. We had instructions for the transfers we had to make.

My infant school was on the far side of town, seven miles from home.
When I started age 5, another father and mine shared a car run to and
from it. After two years, age 7, I moved up from the infant section and
my father announced I was a big girl now, old enough to carry a busfare
purse on a string round my neck and go to school on my own. By public
service bus (no school buses then). I'd never been on a bus by myself
before. It never occurred to him to do a practise/training run with me;
he just told me what to do and I set off proud of my independence.

I walked about a half mile and crossed a busy junction to the nearest
public bus stop, bought a ticket, took a 9 bus into the centre of town,
where my Pa had told me "look for big girls wearing a (school) hat like
yours and follow them". I followed the hats a few hundred yards, caught
an 11 bus, bought another ticket and followed more hats the last
quarter mile from the bus to school.

On the first two days I twice messed up on the home journeys and
ended up in different police stations waiting to be collected by my
father.

Although I knew I had to catch an 11 back from school, I hadn't quite
grasped that the direction of travel was significant.. So at the end of
the day I followed hats to the 11 stop, right where I'd got off it that
morning, and got on it again, now heading away from town.

On day two, I caught the right 11 heading into town,changed onto a 9
and was on the home stretch... but didn't know to ring the stop bell at
my stop, and nobody else did, so the driver kept going past my road
end and I stayed on board for another mystery tour all the way to the
end of the bus route. My father was somewhat exasperated at having to
retrieve me again but it didn't occur to either of us to give up. The
next day, I cracked it. All the way to and from school by myself.
Nothing to it really...

Janet UK

On 9/7/2014 4:13 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Mayo" > wrote in message ...
>> On 9/6/2014 7:23 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2014-09-06 19:25, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most of the kids I see are at the dance studio and most of them are
>>>> very
>>>> skinny.
>>>
>>>
>>> Skinny like your daughter?
>>> For those who have not seen pictures of her, she is not skinny, not by
>>> any stretch of the imagination.
>>>
>>
>> Come on man, that's off limits.
>
> Indeed. I said that most of them are skinny. We have people of all
> shapes and sizes at the dance studio.

Indeed.

In article >, says...


> People also seem to be very good at making excuses for why things are the
> way they are. And those excuses don't always make sense to me.


Imagine that.

Janet UK

On 9/7/2014 9:39 AM, Gary wrote:
> Bryan-TGWWW wrote:
>>
>> Folks who watch a lot of TV tend to be stupid.
>
> LMAO. You moron. You don't watch tv and you're one of the weirdest
> people to post here.
>
+1

On 2014-09-07 9:22 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 9/7/2014 8:20 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-09-07 8:06 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>
>>> Just a couple of days ago, I noticed school was back in session
>>> because all the parents were waiting for the bus with their kids.
>>> I thought to myself, poor kids are never left with a moment to
>>> themselves any more.
>>
>> My next door neighbour used to drive her kids to catch the school bus.
>> The bus stopped at the end of their driveway, which is about 120 yards.
>> They were in high school at the time. It is little wonder that the older
>> son was being bullied at school... by the girls.
>
> I've seen that, too, people drive five houses down to pick up
> their kid from the stop. I don't want to be all When I was a kid,
> snow, uphill blah blah but it's just strange to me.
>

If you ever find yourself crazy enough to want to be exposed to total
frustration, try following some of our local school buses. There is on
particular road which is relatively well used. It is hilly and winding
so there are no many places to pass safely. The flashing lights come
one well in advance of the stop. Then it stops, door opens and stop arm
goes out. You can down the length of the bus and there is no movement.
Finally some kid stands up, talks to his friends some more and
eventually starts walking to the front. Door closes, stop arm comes in,
bus moves to the second driveway down the road and it happens all over
again.

Similarly on the morning runs that I occasionally get stuck behind. The
bus stops and sits there for a minute or two. Eventually the front door
of the house opens and a kid walks slowly down the driveway.

If I ran the world the morning bus would stop only if the kid was
standing out there waiting, and that would be a common stop for several
kids, not three stops in 200 yards. The afternoon bus would stop, open
the doors and kids would have about 30 seconds to get off. Otherwise,
they end up back at the school or bus depot and parents can come and
pick them up.

On 2014-09-07 12:50 PM, sf wrote:

> Worse than that, the parent who does give their child a bike to ride
> to school is pitied as being "too poor" to afford a car by judgmental
> people who don't know anything about their situation other than the
> child rides a bike to school every day.


When I was a kid most of us rode our bikes to school if the weather was
decent. In high school it was not cool to ride a bike. We walked or
took the bus, which we had to pay for.

"Dave Smith" wrote in message ...

On 2014-09-07 12:50 PM, sf wrote:

> Worse than that, the parent who does give their child a bike to ride
> to school is pitied as being "too poor" to afford a car by judgmental
> people who don't know anything about their situation other than the
> child rides a bike to school every day.


When I was a kid most of us rode our bikes to school if the weather was
decent. In high school it was not cool to ride a bike. We walked or
took the bus, which we had to pay for.

~~~~~~~~
We took the school bus to high school (45 minute ride each way for me), but
we did not pay for it. Our taxes did that, and I do think requiring some
families to pay for transportation would act as a *disincentive* to attend
school.

MaryL

On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 14:45:17 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:



>If I ran the world the morning bus would stop only if the kid was
>standing out there waiting, and that would be a common stop for several
>kids, not three stops in 200 yards. The afternoon bus would stop, open
>the doors and kids would have about 30 seconds to get off. Otherwise,
>they end up back at the school or bus depot and parents can come and
>pick them up.
>

STOP it Dave. Your common sense solutions will drive everyone nuts.
Besides, it is cruel to make kids walk 100 yards if the temperature is
below 50F. Better they should take a Vitamin D pill than be exposed
to the sun for a couple of minutes.

In article >,
says...

> Worse than that, the parent who does give their child a bike to ride
> to school is pitied as being "too poor" to afford a car by judgmental
> people who don't know anything about their situation other than the
> child rides a bike to school every day.

It's the opposite here. A child who rides a bike to school is showing
the flag for parents promoting good health and independence.

Janet UK

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 1:45:17 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>
> If I ran the world the morning bus would stop only if the kid was
>
> standing out there waiting, and that would be a common stop for several
>
> kids, not three stops in 200 yards. The afternoon bus would stop, open
>
> the doors and kids would have about 30 seconds to get off. Otherwise,
>
> they end up back at the school or bus depot and parents can come and
>
> pick them up.
>
Typical cop (pig) way of thinking.

--Bryan