Blondies are brownies without all that chocolate. No chocolate
at all isn't always what one wants. These are a nice compromise.

Chocolate Chip Blondies
These taste like thick, chewy chocolate chip cookies.
Makes 24 bars.
210 Calories, 33 grams net carbs, 8 grams fat per bar.

2 3/4 cups flour
1/2 tsp salt
2 1/2 tsp baking powder
2/3 cup butter, melted
2 1/4 cup brown sugar
3 eggs
1 tsp vanilla
1 cup semi-sweet chocolate chips

Sift the flour, salt, and baking powder together.
Set aside.
Combine the melted butter and brown sugar in a mixing bowl.
Mix well.
Beat in the eggs, one at a time.
Mix in the vanilla.
Alternately add the sifted mixture and the chocolate chips.
Beat until the mixture is the consistency of a cake batter.
Spread into a greased 9 x 13 inch pan.
Bake at 350° F for 25 minutes.
The blondies are done when they pull away from the side of the
pan, have a shiny surface, and pass the toothpick test.

--
Mike

On 9/11/2014 1:27 PM, Mike Muth wrote:
> Blondies are brownies without all that chocolate. No chocolate
> at all isn't always what one wants. These are a nice compromise.
>
> Chocolate Chip Blondies
> These taste like thick, chewy chocolate chip cookies.
> Makes 24 bars.
> 210 Calories, 33 grams net carbs, 8 grams fat per bar.
>
> 2 3/4 cups flour
> 1/2 tsp salt
> 2 1/2 tsp baking powder
> 2/3 cup butter, melted
> 2 1/4 cup brown sugar
> 3 eggs
> 1 tsp vanilla
> 1 cup semi-sweet chocolate chips
>
> Sift the flour, salt, and baking powder together.
> Set aside.
> Combine the melted butter and brown sugar in a mixing bowl.
> Mix well.
> Beat in the eggs, one at a time.
> Mix in the vanilla.
> Alternately add the sifted mixture and the chocolate chips.
> Beat until the mixture is the consistency of a cake batter.
> Spread into a greased 9 x 13 inch pan.
> Bake at 350° F for 25 minutes.
> The blondies are done when they pull away from the side of the
> pan, have a shiny surface, and pass the toothpick test.
>

Sounds great. I will give this to my wife. She will likely reduce the
brown sugar and use whole wheat flour because of my type-2 diabetes, but
that's just for us.

Two suggestions:

The mixture of butter and brown sugar should cool to about room
temperature before adding the eggs. Otherwise, you will get scambled
eggs.

Instead of greasing the pan, put a piece of partchment paper on the
bottom and then lightly sift enough cocoa powder to cover the paper. We
use a tea strainer and lightly tap it to spread the cocoa. When the
blondies are done, a table knife along the sides will ensure they are
loosened from the pan, at which point the pan can be inverted over a
plate to remove the entire contents. The partchment paper (now on top)
can easily be removed without even having to peel it away.

--
David E. Ross

Visit "Cooking with David" at
<http://www.rossde.com/cooking/>

On 11-Sep-2014, "David E. Ross" > wrote:

> Sounds great. I will give this to my wife. She will likely
> reduce the
> brown sugar and use whole wheat flour because of my type-2
> diabetes, but that's just for us.

Going to whole wheat flow will save you 2 1/2 grams net carbs per
serving.

I'm not sure you can reduce the sugary by 1/2. I thought of
using the Splenda Brown Sugar blend, but I don't know if it would
work with this recipe.

I sympathize with you on the type II. I'm pre- and have to watch
my carbs, too. For me, though, too many won't have a severe
effect. Still, one of these (I had to taste them) put me over my
daily carb limit (25 grams net carbs).

> Two suggestions:
>
> The mixture of butter and brown sugar should cool to about room
> temperature before adding the eggs. Otherwise, you will get
> scambled eggs.

I melted the butter while I was assembling the ingredients and
utensils needed. The brown sugar pretty much absorbed the rest
of the heat.

The original recipe called for oil. However, I've gotten away
from all vegetable oils except for olive oil. Even the
non-hydrogenated oils can produce aldehydes if they get too hot.
I know the ADA and AHA recommend replacing saturated fats with
unsaturated fats (vegetable oils), but there doesn't seem to be
any real peer-reviewed science behind that. So, I shoot for at
least 60% of my calories from fats and keep my carbs down (most
of the time).

So, you could use oil instead of butter. These taste much better
with butter, though.

> Instead of greasing the pan, put a piece of partchment paper on
> the bottom and then lightly sift enough cocoa powder to cover
> the
> paper. We use a tea strainer and lightly tap it to spread the
> cocoa. When the blondies are done, a table knife along the
> sides will ensure they are loosened from the pan, at which
> point the pan can be inverted over a plate to remove the entire
>
> contents. The partchment paper (now > on top)
> can easily be removed without even having to peel it away.

I often use parchment paper when baking. I usually don't when
using a 9 X 13 X 2" pan. I don't use much butter when greasing
the pan, just enough to put a sheen on it.

These blondies will pull away from the side when they're done, so
you don't need to loosen them.
--
Mike

This is similar to or exactly like what was very popular in the 60s and 70s.

David, you are totally wrong about "scrambled eggs," from adding eggs to the melted butter and
brown sugar. For my very popular chocolate chip cookies, I melt the butter in the microwave, mix in the brown and
white sugars, and then add the eggs and egg yolks one at a time, beating after each. It works
just fine...no scrambled eggs because the sugars have cooled it down enough to add the eggs.

Otherwise, I should say that we often make chocolate chip cookies in a double batch and spread
the batter out in a jelly roll pan and cut them into bars. Doesn't everyone do this for "blonde
brownies?"

N.

On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 13:39:11 -0700, "David E. Ross"
> wrote:

> On 9/11/2014 1:27 PM, Mike Muth wrote:
> > Blondies are brownies without all that chocolate. No chocolate
> > at all isn't always what one wants. These are a nice compromise.
> >
> > Chocolate Chip Blondies
> > These taste like thick, chewy chocolate chip cookies

Hi Mike, LTNS and thanks for the recipe.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/11/2014 2:10 PM, Mike Muth wrote [in part]:
> On 11-Sep-2014, I previously wrote [also in part]:
>
>> Sounds great. I will give this to my wife. She will likely
>> reduce the
>> brown sugar and use whole wheat flour because of my type-2
>> diabetes, but that's just for us.
>
> Going to whole wheat flow will save you 2 1/2 grams net carbs per
> serving.

The whole wheat is not about reducing total carbs. My doctor advised me
to replace simple carbs (e.g., white flour) with complex carbs (e.g.,
whole wheat). My wife uses a lot of whole wheat flour in baking; she
also replaces some flour with almond meal from Trader Joe's.

--
David E. Ross

Visit "Cooking with David" at
<http://www.rossde.com/cooking/>

On Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:23:14 PM UTC-5, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 9/11/2014 2:10 PM, Mike Muth wrote [in part]:
>
> > On 11-Sep-2014, I previously wrote [also in part]:
>
> >
>
> >> Sounds great. I will give this to my wife. She will likely
>
> >> reduce the
>
> >> brown sugar and use whole wheat flour because of my type-2
>
> >> diabetes, but that's just for us.
>
> >
>
> > Going to whole wheat flow will save you 2 1/2 grams net carbs per
>
> > serving.
>
>
>
> The whole wheat is not about reducing total carbs. My doctor advised me
>
> to replace simple carbs (e.g., white flour) with complex carbs (e.g.,
>
> whole wheat). My wife uses a lot of whole wheat flour in baking; she
>
> also replaces some flour with almond meal from Trader Joe's.
>
Your doctor thinks you are stupid. WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR IS NO MORE "COMPLEX"
THAN WHITE FLOUR. The glycemic index is not appreciably different.

Now, almond flour, that's different. You can eat as much of that as you
want. You should get a decent doctor who advises you to keep a copy of the
glycemic index on your refrigerator, and use it, instead of eating in a way
that you have to shoot insulin.
>
> David E. Ross
>
--Bryan

On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 07:14:55 -0700 (PDT), Bryan-TGWWW
> wrote:

> Your doctor thinks you are stupid. WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR IS NO MORE "COMPLEX"
> THAN WHITE FLOUR. The glycemic index is not appreciably different.

The world according to Wheat Belly?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/13/2014 1:47 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 07:14:55 -0700 (PDT), Bryan-TGWWW
> > wrote:
>
>> Your doctor thinks you are stupid. WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR IS NO MORE "COMPLEX"
>> THAN WHITE FLOUR. The glycemic index is not appreciably different.
>
> The world according to Wheat Belly?
>
>
Defending Bryan. I lived with and cooked for a diabetic for over 28
years. The glycemic index meant nothing to his body. A carb was a carb.
He used an insulin pump and I can assure you all that when he calculated
the amount of carbs he was about to ingest in order for the pump to
calculate the bolus, there was no glycemic index" factor. There was no
difference between whole wheat flour or white flour.

The only time anything made a difference was if there was more than 5
grams of fiber per serving, it could be deducted from the total carbs.

If you read labels, the carb count between whole grain stuff and regular
stuff is negligible.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 9/13/2014 3:30 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 9/13/2014 1:47 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 07:14:55 -0700 (PDT), Bryan-TGWWW
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Your doctor thinks you are stupid. WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR IS NO MORE "COMPLEX"
>>> THAN WHITE FLOUR. The glycemic index is not appreciably different.
>>
>> The world according to Wheat Belly?
>>
>>
> Defending Bryan. I lived with and cooked for a diabetic for over 28
> years. The glycemic index meant nothing to his body. A carb was a carb.
> He used an insulin pump and I can assure you all that when he calculated
> the amount of carbs he was about to ingest in order for the pump to
> calculate the bolus, there was no glycemic index" factor. There was no
> difference between whole wheat flour or white flour.
>
> The only time anything made a difference was if there was more than 5
> grams of fiber per serving, it could be deducted from the total carbs.
>
> If you read labels, the carb count between whole grain stuff and regular
> stuff is negligible.
>

My doctor specializes in treating diabetes. He is a professional. I
see him to improve my chances of staying alive for a while yet. If he
advises me to switch from white flour to whole wheat flour, I follow
that advice.

Those of you who discount my doctor's advice: I request you to please
tell me at what medical school did you study? Where did you intern?
Did you do a residency; and if so, where and in what specialty?

By the way, except for issues relating to cardiology (his specialty), I
ignore anything that Dr. Oz says. He goes off on medical issues far
outside his training and experience.

--
David E. Ross

Visit "Cooking with David" at
<http://www.rossde.com/cooking/>

On 9/13/2014 6:49 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

>
> My doctor specializes in treating diabetes. He is a professional. I
> see him to improve my chances of staying alive for a while yet. If he
> advises me to switch from white flour to whole wheat flour, I follow
> that advice


Most doctors who specialize in treating diabetics will tell their
patients to stay away from anything made with flour, if possible. Read
the carb count on a bag of flour and see what the difference is
yourself. There is barely any fiber in whole wheat flour.

I won't deny that whole grains are probably healthier than processed
grains, but that's a general statement. Carbohydrates are no good for
diabetics.

Did your wonder doctor tell you that a spoonful of table sugar and a
slice of bread (even whole wheat) have the same effect on your body?

Did your wonder doctor tell you that the minute you put anything starchy
(whole grain or not) into your mouth your saliva converts the starch
into pure sugar?

Any diabetes specialist worth their salt will send newly diagnosed
patients to diabetes management classes where they learn about their
disease. Part of that course is almost always a nutrition course where
diabetics are taught what to eat, what not to eat and how to measure
their food to stay within the allotted carbohydrate range.

Dit the wonder doctor tell you what your carbohydrate allowance is at
each meal and snack?

> Those of you who discount my doctor's advice: I request you to please
> tell me at what medical school did you study? Where did you intern?
> Did you do a residency; and if so, where and in what specialty?


I didn't study at any medical school. I lived with a diabetic mother
and a diabetic husband. I attended several classes on diabetes
education, which included carb counting and meal planning.

If your doctor didn't do any of the above, he could have graduated
Harvard medical School and I would not trust him with any of my loved ones.

Example: A few months ago, when I was trying to undergo chemotherapy, I
went to the cardiologist who my husband and I used for years. I asked
him for a blood pressure pill while having explained that I was having a
really hard problem maintaining my platelets. The chemo and steroids
would raise my blood pressure to dangerous levels.

He gave me a prescription. I filled it, but not having any problems
yet, I took it to the oncologist who immediately said that the drug will
lower platelets.

So there you go, a well-trained doctor, did his residency at a big-name
hospital in NYC, whom we had used for years made a big mistake. What
makes you think your doctor is infallible?


--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 17:30:08 -0500, Janet Wilder >
wrote:

> On 9/13/2014 1:47 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 07:14:55 -0700 (PDT), Bryan-TGWWW
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Your doctor thinks you are stupid. WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR IS NO MORE "COMPLEX"
> >> THAN WHITE FLOUR. The glycemic index is not appreciably different.
> >
> > The world according to Wheat Belly?
> >
> >
> Defending Bryan. I lived with and cooked for a diabetic for over 28
> years. The glycemic index meant nothing to his body. A carb was a carb.
> He used an insulin pump and I can assure you all that when he calculated
> the amount of carbs he was about to ingest in order for the pump to
> calculate the bolus, there was no glycemic index" factor. There was no
> difference between whole wheat flour or white flour.
>
> The only time anything made a difference was if there was more than 5
> grams of fiber per serving, it could be deducted from the total carbs.
>
> If you read labels, the carb count between whole grain stuff and regular
> stuff is negligible.

I'm cooking for a type II and I've read that every-body is different.
I'm not a fan of flour for diabetics in general, but at least whole
wheat has more fiber so it supposedly slows the spike to some degree
over white.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
eb.com...
> On 9/13/2014 6:49 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>
>>
>> My doctor specializes in treating diabetes. He is a professional. I
>> see him to improve my chances of staying alive for a while yet. If he
>> advises me to switch from white flour to whole wheat flour, I follow
>> that advice
>
>
> Most doctors who specialize in treating diabetics will tell their patients
> to stay away from anything made with flour, if possible. Read the carb
> count on a bag of flour and see what the difference is yourself. There is
> barely any fiber in whole wheat flour.
>
> I won't deny that whole grains are probably healthier than processed
> grains, but that's a general statement. Carbohydrates are no good for
> diabetics.
>
> Did your wonder doctor tell you that a spoonful of table sugar and a slice
> of bread (even whole wheat) have the same effect on your body?
>
> Did your wonder doctor tell you that the minute you put anything starchy
> (whole grain or not) into your mouth your saliva converts the starch into
> pure sugar?
>
> Any diabetes specialist worth their salt will send newly diagnosed
> patients to diabetes management classes where they learn about their
> disease. Part of that course is almost always a nutrition course where
> diabetics are taught what to eat, what not to eat and how to measure their
> food to stay within the allotted carbohydrate range.
>
> Dit the wonder doctor tell you what your carbohydrate allowance is at each
> meal and snack?
>
>> Those of you who discount my doctor's advice: I request you to please
>> tell me at what medical school did you study? Where did you intern?
>> Did you do a residency; and if so, where and in what specialty?
>
>
> I didn't study at any medical school. I lived with a diabetic mother and
> a diabetic husband. I attended several classes on diabetes education,
> which included carb counting and meal planning.
>
> If your doctor didn't do any of the above, he could have graduated Harvard
> medical School and I would not trust him with any of my loved ones.
>
> Example: A few months ago, when I was trying to undergo chemotherapy, I
> went to the cardiologist who my husband and I used for years. I asked him
> for a blood pressure pill while having explained that I was having a
> really hard problem maintaining my platelets. The chemo and steroids
> would raise my blood pressure to dangerous levels.
>
> He gave me a prescription. I filled it, but not having any problems yet,
> I took it to the oncologist who immediately said that the drug will lower
> platelets.
>
> So there you go, a well-trained doctor, did his residency at a big-name
> hospital in NYC, whom we had used for years made a big mistake. What
> makes you think your doctor is infallible?

Great post Janet.

Cheri

On Saturday, September 13, 2014 5:30:08 PM UTC-5, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 9/13/2014 1:47 PM, sf wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 07:14:55 -0700 (PDT), Bryan-TGWWW
>
> > > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Your doctor thinks you are stupid. WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR IS NO MORE "COMPLEX"
>
> >> THAN WHITE FLOUR. The glycemic index is not appreciably different.
>
> >
>
> > The world according to Wheat Belly?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> Defending Bryan. I lived with and cooked for a diabetic for over 28
>
> years. The glycemic index meant nothing to his body. A carb was a carb.
>
> He used an insulin pump and I can assure you all that when he calculated
>
> the amount of carbs he was about to ingest in order for the pump to
>
> calculate the bolus, there was no glycemic index" factor. There was no
>
> difference between whole wheat flour or white flour.
>
I assume Type 1? I know they're starting to use them for Type 2, but that
seems like it'd only make sense if the pancreas was totally shot.
>
> The only time anything made a difference was if there was more than 5
>
> grams of fiber per serving, it could be deducted from the total carbs.
>
>
>
> If you read labels, the carb count between whole grain stuff and regular
>
> stuff is negligible.
>
And even if it wasn't, the carbohydrates in whole wheat flower are not
more "complex" than those in white flour.

--Bryan

On 9/14/2014 1:26 AM, Cheri wrote:
>
> "Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
> eb.com...
>> On 9/13/2014 6:49 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> My doctor specializes in treating diabetes. He is a professional. I
>>> see him to improve my chances of staying alive for a while yet. If he
>>> advises me to switch from white flour to whole wheat flour, I follow
>>> that advice
>>
>>
>> Most doctors who specialize in treating diabetics will tell their
>> patients to stay away from anything made with flour, if possible.
>> Read the carb count on a bag of flour and see what the difference is
>> yourself. There is barely any fiber in whole wheat flour.
>>
>> I won't deny that whole grains are probably healthier than processed
>> grains, but that's a general statement. Carbohydrates are no good for
>> diabetics.
>>
>> Did your wonder doctor tell you that a spoonful of table sugar and a
>> slice of bread (even whole wheat) have the same effect on your body?
>>
>> Did your wonder doctor tell you that the minute you put anything
>> starchy (whole grain or not) into your mouth your saliva converts the
>> starch into pure sugar?
>>
>> Any diabetes specialist worth their salt will send newly diagnosed
>> patients to diabetes management classes where they learn about their
>> disease. Part of that course is almost always a nutrition course where
>> diabetics are taught what to eat, what not to eat and how to measure
>> their food to stay within the allotted carbohydrate range.
>>
>> Dit the wonder doctor tell you what your carbohydrate allowance is at
>> each meal and snack?
>>
>>> Those of you who discount my doctor's advice: I request you to please
>>> tell me at what medical school did you study? Where did you intern?
>>> Did you do a residency; and if so, where and in what specialty?
>>
>>
>> I didn't study at any medical school. I lived with a diabetic mother
>> and a diabetic husband. I attended several classes on diabetes
>> education, which included carb counting and meal planning.
>>
>> If your doctor didn't do any of the above, he could have graduated
>> Harvard medical School and I would not trust him with any of my loved
>> ones.
>>
>> Example: A few months ago, when I was trying to undergo chemotherapy,
>> I went to the cardiologist who my husband and I used for years. I
>> asked him for a blood pressure pill while having explained that I was
>> having a really hard problem maintaining my platelets. The chemo and
>> steroids would raise my blood pressure to dangerous levels.
>>
>> He gave me a prescription. I filled it, but not having any problems
>> yet, I took it to the oncologist who immediately said that the drug
>> will lower platelets.
>>
>> So there you go, a well-trained doctor, did his residency at a
>> big-name hospital in NYC, whom we had used for years made a big
>> mistake. What makes you think your doctor is infallible?
>
> Great post Janet.
>
> Cheri
>
I agree! I don't understand why so many people are reluctant to
question their doctors. They'd rather assume because there is an M.D.
after their name they are somehow God-like.

If I'd listened to the gastric surgeon after being hospitalized with a
severe case of diverticulitis he'd have cut out a chunk of my colon for
no good reason. During the outpatient follow-ups he kept insisting
without the surgery I'd need an ostemy bag within three years. He was
*really* pushing for it. The third and final visit he started pushing
again. That's when I pointed out I didn't have health insurance. Boy
did that change his tune! He handed me some pamphlets and said, "Modify
your diet." They'd already told me that when I was in the hospital. No
insurance company to bilk, no need for surgery. That was over six years
ago and I'm doing just fine.

Jill

On 9/13/2014 6:06 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 9/13/2014 6:49 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>
>>
>> My doctor specializes in treating diabetes. He is a professional. I
>> see him to improve my chances of staying alive for a while yet. If he
>> advises me to switch from white flour to whole wheat flour, I follow
>> that advice
>
>
> Most doctors who specialize in treating diabetics will tell their
> patients to stay away from anything made with flour, if possible. Read
> the carb count on a bag of flour and see what the difference is
> yourself. There is barely any fiber in whole wheat flour.
>
> I won't deny that whole grains are probably healthier than processed
> grains, but that's a general statement. Carbohydrates are no good for
> diabetics.
>
> Did your wonder doctor tell you that a spoonful of table sugar and a
> slice of bread (even whole wheat) have the same effect on your body?
>
> Did your wonder doctor tell you that the minute you put anything starchy
> (whole grain or not) into your mouth your saliva converts the starch
> into pure sugar?
>
> Any diabetes specialist worth their salt will send newly diagnosed
> patients to diabetes management classes where they learn about their
> disease. Part of that course is almost always a nutrition course where
> diabetics are taught what to eat, what not to eat and how to measure
> their food to stay within the allotted carbohydrate range.
>
> Dit the wonder doctor tell you what your carbohydrate allowance is at
> each meal and snack?
>
>> Those of you who discount my doctor's advice: I request you to please
>> tell me at what medical school did you study? Where did you intern?
>> Did you do a residency; and if so, where and in what specialty?
>
>
> I didn't study at any medical school. I lived with a diabetic mother
> and a diabetic husband. I attended several classes on diabetes
> education, which included carb counting and meal planning.
>
> If your doctor didn't do any of the above, he could have graduated
> Harvard medical School and I would not trust him with any of my loved ones.
>
> Example: A few months ago, when I was trying to undergo chemotherapy, I
> went to the cardiologist who my husband and I used for years. I asked
> him for a blood pressure pill while having explained that I was having a
> really hard problem maintaining my platelets. The chemo and steroids
> would raise my blood pressure to dangerous levels.
>
> He gave me a prescription. I filled it, but not having any problems
> yet, I took it to the oncologist who immediately said that the drug will
> lower platelets.
>
> So there you go, a well-trained doctor, did his residency at a big-name
> hospital in NYC, whom we had used for years made a big mistake. What
> makes you think your doctor is infallible?
>
>

The proof is in the pudding. With both my wife and me following my
doctor's advice, my blood sugar is under control.

--
David E. Ross

Visit "Cooking with David" at
<http://www.rossde.com/cooking/>

On 9/14/2014 7:29 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> I agree! I don't understand why so many people are reluctant to
> question their doctors. They'd rather assume because there is an M.D.
> after their name they are somehow God-like.
>
> If I'd listened to the gastric surgeon after being hospitalized with a
> severe case of diverticulitis he'd have cut out a chunk of my colon for
> no good reason. During the outpatient follow-ups he kept insisting
> without the surgery I'd need an ostemy bag within three years. He was
> *really* pushing for it. The third and final visit he started pushing
> again. That's when I pointed out I didn't have health insurance. Boy
> did that change his tune! He handed me some pamphlets and said, "Modify
> your diet." They'd already told me that when I was in the hospital. No
> insurance company to bilk, no need for surgery. That was over six years
> ago and I'm doing just fine.

My mother refused to follow her doctor's advice regarding
diverticulitis. They had to remove about a foot of colon that was
already gangrenous. My wife also has diverticulitis. She follows her
doctor's advice and still has all of her colon.

Even though we had insurance and now have Medicare, we choose doctors
who are conservative in their treatments. Our doctors weight the risks
of treatment against the treatment itself. Thus, my wife's orthopedist
advised against surgery for a stenosis of her lower spine. I know
people with the same condition but with different doctors. They had the
surgery; they are very unhappy with the results and still in pain.

This newsgroup has too many non-doctors giving medical advice.

--
David E. Ross

Visit "Cooking with David" at
<http://www.rossde.com/cooking/>

"David E. Ross" > wrote in message
...

> The proof is in the pudding. With both my wife and me following my
> doctor's advice, my blood sugar is under control.

That's great to hear. What range do you and your doctor shoot for with
fasting and after meal readings, and are you on medications? I'm curious.

Cheri

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:34:05 -0700, "David E. Ross"
> wrote:

> This newsgroup has too many non-doctors giving medical advice.

Their medical degree is worth the paper it's written on.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:34:05 -0700, "David E. Ross"
> > wrote:
>
>> This newsgroup has too many non-doctors giving medical advice.
>
> Their medical degree is worth the paper it's written on.

Well, in the case of diabetes, it's worth at least listening to those that
are living it and controlling it for years and years without complications,
but a lot of people don't care to have to change their ways at all, so they
simply go by what the doctor says instead of testing/questioning things for
themselves, but that's a choice and they're the ones that have to live with
the result if the doctor is less than stellar when it comes to diabetes.
I've stopped even mentioning diabetes to some of the type 2's I know, but
one of them actually had two pieces of peach pie and then said I need
artificial sweetener for my coffee because I'm diabetic you know. We all
just looked at him. LOL

Cheri

On 9/14/2014 11:34 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 9/14/2014 7:29 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> I agree! I don't understand why so many people are reluctant to
>> question their doctors. They'd rather assume because there is an M.D.
>> after their name they are somehow God-like.
>>
>> If I'd listened to the gastric surgeon after being hospitalized with a
>> severe case of diverticulitis he'd have cut out a chunk of my colon for
>> no good reason. During the outpatient follow-ups he kept insisting
>> without the surgery I'd need an ostemy bag within three years. He was
>> *really* pushing for it. The third and final visit he started pushing
>> again. That's when I pointed out I didn't have health insurance. Boy
>> did that change his tune! He handed me some pamphlets and said, "Modify
>> your diet." They'd already told me that when I was in the hospital. No
>> insurance company to bilk, no need for surgery. That was over six years
>> ago and I'm doing just fine.
>
> My mother refused to follow her doctor's advice regarding
> diverticulitis. They had to remove about a foot of colon that was
> already gangrenous. My wife also has diverticulitis. She follows her
> doctor's advice and still has all of her colon.
>
Yeah, well I developed an infection which is what landed me in the
hospital in the first place. It was already cleared up by the time I
was discharged a week later. Cutting out part of my colon was totally
unnecessary yet he kept pushing for it.

> Even though we had insurance and now have Medicare, we choose doctors
> who are conservative in their treatments. Our doctors weight the risks
> of treatment against the treatment itself. Thus, my wife's orthopedist
> advised against surgery for a stenosis of her lower spine. I know
> people with the same condition but with different doctors. They had the
> surgery; they are very unhappy with the results and still in pain.
>
> This newsgroup has too many non-doctors giving medical advice.
>
The only "medical advice" I give is to say don't hestitate to question
your doctor or seek a second opinion. The letters M.D. don't mean
he/she graduated at the top of their class. There are lots of mediocre
doctors out there.

Jill

On 9/14/2014 8:08 AM, Bryan-TGWWW wrote:
> On Saturday, September 13, 2014 5:30:08 PM UTC-5, Janet Wilder wrote:
>> On 9/13/2014 1:47 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 07:14:55 -0700 (PDT), Bryan-TGWWW
>>
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> Your doctor thinks you are stupid. WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR IS NO MORE "COMPLEX"
>>
>>>> THAN WHITE FLOUR. The glycemic index is not appreciably different.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> The world according to Wheat Belly?
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>> Defending Bryan. I lived with and cooked for a diabetic for over 28
>>
>> years. The glycemic index meant nothing to his body. A carb was a carb.
>>
>> He used an insulin pump and I can assure you all that when he calculated
>>
>> the amount of carbs he was about to ingest in order for the pump to
>>
>> calculate the bolus, there was no glycemic index" factor. There was no
>>
>> difference between whole wheat flour or white flour.
>>
> I assume Type 1? I know they're starting to use them for Type 2, but that
> seems like it'd only make sense if the pancreas was totally shot.

Actually Type 2. Many long-term type 2 diabetics wind up on insulin as
their pancreas gets worn out being forced to produce insulin by all the
years on oral drugs.



--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 9/14/2014 9:29 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 9/14/2014 1:26 AM, Cheri wrote:
>>
>> "Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
>> eb.com...
>>> On 9/13/2014 6:49 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My doctor specializes in treating diabetes. He is a professional. I
>>>> see him to improve my chances of staying alive for a while yet. If he
>>>> advises me to switch from white flour to whole wheat flour, I follow
>>>> that advice
>>>
>>>
>>> Most doctors who specialize in treating diabetics will tell their
>>> patients to stay away from anything made with flour, if possible.
>>> Read the carb count on a bag of flour and see what the difference is
>>> yourself. There is barely any fiber in whole wheat flour.
>>>
>>> I won't deny that whole grains are probably healthier than processed
>>> grains, but that's a general statement. Carbohydrates are no good for
>>> diabetics.
>>>
>>> Did your wonder doctor tell you that a spoonful of table sugar and a
>>> slice of bread (even whole wheat) have the same effect on your body?
>>>
>>> Did your wonder doctor tell you that the minute you put anything
>>> starchy (whole grain or not) into your mouth your saliva converts the
>>> starch into pure sugar?
>>>
>>> Any diabetes specialist worth their salt will send newly diagnosed
>>> patients to diabetes management classes where they learn about their
>>> disease. Part of that course is almost always a nutrition course where
>>> diabetics are taught what to eat, what not to eat and how to measure
>>> their food to stay within the allotted carbohydrate range.
>>>
>>> Dit the wonder doctor tell you what your carbohydrate allowance is at
>>> each meal and snack?
>>>
>>>> Those of you who discount my doctor's advice: I request you to please
>>>> tell me at what medical school did you study? Where did you intern?
>>>> Did you do a residency; and if so, where and in what specialty?
>>>
>>>
>>> I didn't study at any medical school. I lived with a diabetic mother
>>> and a diabetic husband. I attended several classes on diabetes
>>> education, which included carb counting and meal planning.
>>>
>>> If your doctor didn't do any of the above, he could have graduated
>>> Harvard medical School and I would not trust him with any of my loved
>>> ones.
>>>
>>> Example: A few months ago, when I was trying to undergo chemotherapy,
>>> I went to the cardiologist who my husband and I used for years. I
>>> asked him for a blood pressure pill while having explained that I was
>>> having a really hard problem maintaining my platelets. The chemo and
>>> steroids would raise my blood pressure to dangerous levels.
>>>
>>> He gave me a prescription. I filled it, but not having any problems
>>> yet, I took it to the oncologist who immediately said that the drug
>>> will lower platelets.
>>>
>>> So there you go, a well-trained doctor, did his residency at a
>>> big-name hospital in NYC, whom we had used for years made a big
>>> mistake. What makes you think your doctor is infallible?
>>
>> Great post Janet.
>>
>> Cheri
>>
> I agree! I don't understand why so many people are reluctant to
> question their doctors. They'd rather assume because there is an M.D.
> after their name they are somehow God-like.
>
> If I'd listened to the gastric surgeon after being hospitalized with a
> severe case of diverticulitis he'd have cut out a chunk of my colon for
> no good reason. During the outpatient follow-ups he kept insisting
> without the surgery I'd need an ostemy bag within three years. He was
> *really* pushing for it. The third and final visit he started pushing
> again. That's when I pointed out I didn't have health insurance. Boy
> did that change his tune! He handed me some pamphlets and said, "Modify
> your diet." They'd already told me that when I was in the hospital. No
> insurance company to bilk, no need for surgery. That was over six years
> ago and I'm doing just fine.
>
> Jill


My DH had an attack of diverticulitis about 10 years ago. He was
hospitalized and had 6 pints of whole blood over one weekend. Of course
every time they scoped him, the bleeding had stopped, so there was
nothing they could do.

He got discharged and they gave him the "special" diet with no nuts,
strawberries, etc., and lots of fiber.

About 3 weeks later, he was in another hospital bleeding again. That
doctor wanted to remove 2/3 of his gut. We were in Elkhart, IN at the
time and I explained that I wanted to get him back to NJ where our
family was. Since there was no more bleeding, he agreed.

I disregarded the "special" diet and put him on a diet of mush. No
fiber, no roughage. By the time we got back to NJ, he was feeling fine
and the gastric surgeon said: "it's not broke, so let's not fix it."
He told use to expect another occurrence in 6 months. It never
happened. He never had another incidence for the rest of his life.

I think keeping him on a bland, soft diet for a while helped the lesion
heal.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 9/14/2014 10:44 AM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:34:05 -0700, "David E. Ross"
> > wrote:
>
>> This newsgroup has too many non-doctors giving medical advice.
>
> Their medical degree is worth the paper it's written on.
>
>

I, for one, appreciate anecdotal evidence from people who have the
condition in question. I have learned more about some conditions and
their treatment from other people than I have from doctors. It's
especially helpful when dealing with side-effects of certain treatments.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:57:06 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:34:05 -0700, "David E. Ross"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> This newsgroup has too many non-doctors giving medical advice.
> >
> > Their medical degree is worth the paper it's written on.
>
> Well, in the case of diabetes, it's worth at least listening to those that
> are living it and controlling it for years and years without complications,
> but a lot of people don't care to have to change their ways at all, so they
> simply go by what the doctor says instead of testing/questioning things for
> themselves, but that's a choice and they're the ones that have to live with
> the result if the doctor is less than stellar when it comes to diabetes.
> I've stopped even mentioning diabetes to some of the type 2's I know, but
> one of them actually had two pieces of peach pie and then said I need
> artificial sweetener for my coffee because I'm diabetic you know. We all
> just looked at him. LOL
>
Believe me, I glean a lot of information and it has helped me a lot -
but David has his under control (I didn't say he's cured), so he's
definitely doing something right.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/14/2014 8:38 AM, Cheri wrote:
>
> "David E. Ross" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> The proof is in the pudding. With both my wife and me following my
>> doctor's advice, my blood sugar is under control.
>
> That's great to hear. What range do you and your doctor shoot for with
> fasting and after meal readings, and are you on medications? I'm curious.
>
> Cheri
>

I follow guidelines from the National Institutes of Health and the
American Diabetes Association. I test once a day, each day at a
different "opportunity", as cited below:

> Before meals, your blood sugar should be:
> From 70 - 130 mg/dl for adults

I'm slightly off. My 30-day average (13 tests) is 131.

> After meals (2 hours after eating), your blood sugar should be:
> Less than 180 mg/dl for adults

I'm well within range. My 30-day average (13 tests) is 148.

> Before bedtime
> Between 100 and 140 mg/dl

I'm off. My 30-day average (4 tests) is 151.

At my doctor's office two weeks ago, my latest A1C test (representing an
average over the past two months) was 6.6, which my doctor says is good.
Using the past two months of readings (mostly good or very good since 1
September) and a table for converting reading averages to A1C, I get an
A1C of 6.1. An A1C below 6.0 puts me at risk of hypoglicemia.

Yes, I am on medication. I take Januvia every night at dinner time and
a Bydureon injection every Saturday morning.

--
David E. Ross

Visit "Cooking with David" at
<http://www.rossde.com/cooking/>

On 9/14/2014 2:14 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 9/14/2014 9:29 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 9/14/2014 1:26 AM, Cheri wrote:
>>>
>>> "Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
>>> eb.com...
>>>> On 9/13/2014 6:49 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> So there you go, a well-trained doctor, did his residency at a
>>>> big-name hospital in NYC, whom we had used for years made a big
>>>> mistake. What makes you think your doctor is infallible?
>>>
>>> Great post Janet.
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>>
>> I agree! I don't understand why so many people are reluctant to
>> question their doctors. They'd rather assume because there is an M.D.
>> after their name they are somehow God-like.
>>
>> If I'd listened to the gastric surgeon after being hospitalized with a
>> severe case of diverticulitis he'd have cut out a chunk of my colon for
>> no good reason. During the outpatient follow-ups he kept insisting
>> without the surgery I'd need an ostemy bag within three years. He was
>> *really* pushing for it. The third and final visit he started pushing
>> again. That's when I pointed out I didn't have health insurance. Boy
>> did that change his tune! He handed me some pamphlets and said, "Modify
>> your diet." They'd already told me that when I was in the hospital. No
>> insurance company to bilk, no need for surgery. That was over six years
>> ago and I'm doing just fine.
>>
>> Jill
>
>
> My DH had an attack of diverticulitis about 10 years ago. He was
> hospitalized and had 6 pints of whole blood over one weekend. Of course
> every time they scoped him, the bleeding had stopped, so there was
> nothing they could do.
>
> He got discharged and they gave him the "special" diet with no nuts,
> strawberries, etc., and lots of fiber.
>
> About 3 weeks later, he was in another hospital bleeding again. That
> doctor wanted to remove 2/3 of his gut. We were in Elkhart, IN at the
> time and I explained that I wanted to get him back to NJ where our
> family was. Since there was no more bleeding, he agreed.
>
> I disregarded the "special" diet and put him on a diet of mush. No
> fiber, no roughage. By the time we got back to NJ, he was feeling fine
> and the gastric surgeon said: "it's not broke, so let's not fix it." He
> told use to expect another occurrence in 6 months. It never happened.
> He never had another incidence for the rest of his life.
>
> I think keeping him on a bland, soft diet for a while helped the lesion
> heal.
>
I wasn't bleeding so no transfustions. But I had an infection that came
close to peritonitis. That's what they were afraid of. Heavy-duty
antibiotics fixed that problem. Apparently eating too much fiber caused
my problem in the first place. I'm still supposed to avoid nuts and
things like strawberries with tiny seeds. I'm doing just fine. I'm
glad I didn't let that guy talk me into unnecessary surgery.

Jill

"David E. Ross" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/14/2014 8:38 AM, Cheri wrote:
>>
>> "David E. Ross" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> The proof is in the pudding. With both my wife and me following my
>>> doctor's advice, my blood sugar is under control.
>>
>> That's great to hear. What range do you and your doctor shoot for with
>> fasting and after meal readings, and are you on medications? I'm curious.
>>
>> Cheri
>>
>
> I follow guidelines from the National Institutes of Health and the
> American Diabetes Association. I test once a day, each day at a
> different "opportunity", as cited below:
>
>> Before meals, your blood sugar should be:
>> From 70 - 130 mg/dl for adults
>
> I'm slightly off. My 30-day average (13 tests) is 131.
>
>> After meals (2 hours after eating), your blood sugar should be:
>> Less than 180 mg/dl for adults
>
> I'm well within range. My 30-day average (13 tests) is 148.
>
>> Before bedtime
>> Between 100 and 140 mg/dl
>
> I'm off. My 30-day average (4 tests) is 151.
>
> At my doctor's office two weeks ago, my latest A1C test (representing an
> average over the past two months) was 6.6, which my doctor says is good.
> Using the past two months of readings (mostly good or very good since 1
> September) and a table for converting reading averages to A1C, I get an
> A1C of 6.1. An A1C below 6.0 puts me at risk of hypoglicemia.
>
> Yes, I am on medication. I take Januvia every night at dinner time and
> a Bydureon injection every Saturday morning.
>
> --
> David E. Ross

Thank you for the info, I always like to see what others are doing. It's
definitely a YMMV when dealing with diabetes.

Cheri

On 14-Sep-2014, "David E. Ross" > wrote:

> An A1C below 6.0 puts me at risk of hypoglicemia.

Really? An A1c of 4.1 is still in the normal range, but probably
indicates that blood sugar is dropping too low from time to time.
Normal range is considered 4.7 to 5. Mine is 5.1 and my glucose
levels are above normal (fasting glucose should be 70 - 100).
Mine are averaging 108.

A1c levels above 5 and below 7 are considered pre-diabetic
(pre-diabetes is more properly called "hyperinsulinemia"). The
elevated insulin levels associated with hyperinsulinemia can
cause the same damage as the higher levels found in Type II or
Type I, just at a slower rate.
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16733348,
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/hyperinsulinemia.html) The elevated
insulin/blood sugar levels are also associated with weight gain
and damage to HDL cholesterol.
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandeve...e_145kills146/

Hypoglycemia occurs when blood glucose levels fall below 70.

--
Mike

On 9/14/2014 3:52 PM, Mike Muth wrote:
> On 14-Sep-2014, "David E. Ross" > wrote:
>
>> An A1C below 6.0 puts me at risk of hypoglicemia.
>
> Really? An A1c of 4.1 is still in the normal range, but probably
> indicates that blood sugar is dropping too low from time to time.
> Normal range is considered 4.7 to 5. Mine is 5.1 and my glucose
> levels are above normal (fasting glucose should be 70 - 100).
> Mine are averaging 108.
>
> A1c levels above 5 and below 7 are considered pre-diabetic
> (pre-diabetes is more properly called "hyperinsulinemia"). The
> elevated insulin levels associated with hyperinsulinemia can
> cause the same damage as the higher levels found in Type II or
> Type I, just at a slower rate.
> (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16733348,
> http://www.diabetes.co.uk/hyperinsulinemia.html) The elevated
> insulin/blood sugar levels are also associated with weight gain
> and damage to HDL cholesterol.
> http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandeve...e_145kills146/
>
> Hypoglycemia occurs when blood glucose levels fall below 70.
>

Again, I am depending on my own doctor's advice. He used to want my A1C
below 6.5. However, he recently told me that keeping it there means my
glucose level is too close to being below the accepted range and that
the recommended level is now below 7.0.

--
David E. Ross

Visit "Cooking with David" at
<http://www.rossde.com/cooking/>

wrote:
>I've stopped even mentioning diabetes to some of the type 2's I know, but
>one of them actually had two pieces of peach pie and then said I need
>artificial sweetener for my coffee because I'm diabetic you know. We all
>just looked at him. LOL

For people who really cherish the sociocultural connections surrounding social
eating, it's hard to sit amongst "normal" dessert eating people without
partaking of it. Different folks have different foods that are especially to
give up in social situations. Our culture is unfortunately friendlier to vegans
than diabetics. At this juncture, sugar free, low-carb desserts should be
commonplace. But I bet this dude wasn't offered peach pie with an almond crust
and artificial sweetener, so that he would only have to contend with carbs from
the peach filling. I probably wouldn't have had two slices as he did,
regardless of its taste. But I don't necessarily cast aspersions on him. Food,
like sex, is difficult to relegate to the realm of superfluous addictive
substances because we all need to eat and some of us want to eat socially.
Orlando

"Orlando Enrique Fiol" > wrote in message

> commonplace. But I bet this dude wasn't offered peach pie with an almond
> crust
> and artificial sweetener, so that he would only have to contend with carbs
> from
> the peach filling. I probably wouldn't have had two slices as he did,
> regardless of its taste. But I don't necessarily cast aspersions on him.
> Food,
> like sex, is difficult to relegate to the realm of superfluous addictive
> substances because we all need to eat and some of us want to eat socially.
> Orlando

Well yeah, that does go to show that you know nothing of the situation that
I described, since there were alternate desserts such as sugar-free
cheesecake (which I had) The peach pie was made for friends visiting from
Washington as a special treat that was requested. No one was casting
aspersions either, just stating what happened, and finding humor in it.

Cheri

wrote:
>Well yeah, that does go to show that you know nothing of the situation that
>I described, since there were alternate desserts such as sugar-free
>cheesecake (which I had) The peach pie was made for friends visiting from
>Washington as a special treat that was requested. No one was casting
>aspersions either, just stating what happened, and finding humor in it.

Knowing the aspects of your diet that you've posted here over the years, I'm
not surprised that you tried to accommodate your diabetic guest. I applaud you
for that. I was using this thread to point out that diabetics and low-carb
eaters tend to receive very little tangible support from the general public. In
many cultures, carbs are considered staples, while proteins and vegetables are
almost considered luxuries. Just think about food options through food banks or
government programs. Diabetics and overweight people literally must choose
between food insecurity and unhealthy options, as though healthy eating were
only available to the affluent.

"Orlando Enrique Fiol" > wrote in message
. ..
> wrote:
>>Well yeah, that does go to show that you know nothing of the situation
>>that
>>I described, since there were alternate desserts such as sugar-free
>>cheesecake (which I had) The peach pie was made for friends visiting from
>>Washington as a special treat that was requested. No one was casting
>>aspersions either, just stating what happened, and finding humor in it.
>
> Knowing the aspects of your diet that you've posted here over the years,
> I'm
> not surprised that you tried to accommodate your diabetic guest. I applaud
> you
> for that. I was using this thread to point out that diabetics and low-carb
> eaters tend to receive very little tangible support from the general
> public. In
> many cultures, carbs are considered staples, while proteins and vegetables
> are
> almost considered luxuries. Just think about food options through food
> banks or
> government programs. Diabetics and overweight people literally must choose
> between food insecurity and unhealthy options, as though healthy eating
> were
> only available to the affluent.

I always try to accomodate with food being a diabetic myself. The person in
question does not fall in to those categories, though I do agree with you
because cheaper foods are usually not as diabetic friendly as a rule, but he
just turned 80 and he has severe breathing problems with 24 hour oxygen, so
I think that he's going to eat what he wants. It was just funny that he said
that about the artificial sweetener after having the pie since he seems to
think that sugar is the problem, not pie crust, peach filling etc. I have
tried to talk to him many times, but he pretty much blows me off, so I quit.
Sorry for sounding testy.

Cheri

On 15-Sep-2014, "Cheri" > wrote:

> It was just funny that he said
> that about the artificial sweetener after having the pie since
> he seems to
> think that sugar is the problem, not pie crust, peach filling
> etc.

I encounter this all the time. People don't realize that
carbohydrates are just complex sugars. They think that
eliminating sucrose solves all problems for diabetics and don't
think about what those carbs do or about other sugars (lactose,
fructose, etc).

--
Mike

"Mike Muth" > wrote in message
...
>
> On 15-Sep-2014, "Cheri" > wrote:
>
>> It was just funny that he said
>> that about the artificial sweetener after having the pie since
>> he seems to
>> think that sugar is the problem, not pie crust, peach filling
>> etc.
>
> I encounter this all the time. People don't realize that
> carbohydrates are just complex sugars. They think that
> eliminating sucrose solves all problems for diabetics and don't
> think about what those carbs do or about other sugars (lactose,
> fructose, etc).
>
> --
> Mike

Yes, it is mind boggling.

Cheri

wrote:
>I always try to accommodate with food being a diabetic myself. The person in
>question does not fall in to those categories, though I do agree with you
>because cheaper foods are usually not as diabetic friendly as a rule, but he
>just turned 80 and he has severe breathing problems with 24 hour oxygen, so
>I think that he's going to eat what he wants. It was just funny that he said
>that about the artificial sweetener after having the pie since he seems to
>think that sugar is the problem, not pie crust, peach filling etc. I have
>tried to talk to him many times, but he pretty much blows me off, so I quit.
>Sorry for sounding testy.

No apologies are necessary. I know how it feels to care deeply about someone's
health, only to be blown off by them. I also know how misguided people's
efforts to help me be healthier can become, especially if they neither know nor
care about my life priorities. Some people put health above everything else;
others put all their efforts into the love of money or religious devotion. I
choose to balance what I know is good for me with what I enjoy. In the end,
that's the most sustainable and manageable life for me. Perhaps because I'm
totally blind from birth, I take extra pleasure in gastronomy. Therefore, given
the choice between crappy-tasting healthy food and slightly unhealthier but
better tasting options, you can guess which ones I'll choose. All thaht said,
there's nothing crappy-tasting about peach pie made with an almond crust,
Splenda, perhaps some tapioca starch, fructose or coconut oil in the mix. But
when you restrict many people's carbs, they get very uncreative with
substitutes, which makes it frustrating to eat with them.
Orlando