On 9/16/2014 6:17 AM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:51:24 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> He's sort of right.
>>
>> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
>> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.
>
> The youtube I watched didn't splash much on at all, it wasn't even
> close to a braise... more like humidifying.

Exactly.

That's why many of the competition pitmasters simply squeeze on butter
or honey.

>>
>> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
>> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.
>
> I figured the slurry would help do that plus add some flavor. What I
> saw wasn't fancy. They sprinkled a little unmodified apple juice over
> their rib rack before wrapping it in foil.

Certainly have never failed me.

I tend to use a few (2) ounces of good cider, and a dash of cider vinegar.

>> The wrap and hold, be it in a cooler or an old blanket is sound strategy
>> and lets the meat rest and re-absorb juices.

On 9/16/2014 6:19 AM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:33:48 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:43:44 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:17:09 -0500, "Pete C." >
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
>>>> valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
>>>> use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
>>>> with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
>>>> hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time foil
>>>> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
>>>> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
>>>
>>> Okay, but now I'm confused. Apparently there are diverging opinions
>>> on this subject.
>>
>> I have seen methods for a packer cut of brisket that involve smoking
>> the meat for several hours and then wrapping in foil and finishing in
>> the oven. I think of that as a 'rescue' method, used when the weather
>> turns nasty or you don't have time to baby sit a hunk of meat. The
>> first place I saw this method was Cooks Illustrated probably 10/15
>> years ago. It turns out a nice piece of meat.
>
> I watched a few youtube videos before I did the ribs and one of them
> said you get all the smoke flavor in the first couple of hours, so I
> can see people wrapping meat and finishing it off in the oven after
> that when they're behind schedule and have people to feed.
>
>
That's the ticket, yes!

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:30:44 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:37:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:14:28 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
> >
> >> For brisket I just spread with yellow mustard and then sprinkle on the
> >> seasoning rub -- probably let it sit in the fridge overnight.
> >
> >That sounds good. Which reminds me, I need to add yellow mustard to
> >my grocery list. Do you make your own rub, follow a recipe or buy a
> >commercial blend? I threw together my own blend without measuring.
> >Wish I'd been a little more careful, because I *really* like what I
> >did. Two things I didn't do was use a lot of sugar and no chili
> >powder. I do NOT like a chile flavor on BBQ'd meat, although I did
> >add a little cayenne for heat.
>
> This is what I use. You'll find this recipe or something almost
> exactly like it everywhere. I actually use it for fried chicken as
> well. I think all the ingredients are necessary. I got this either
> from one of the cooking/BBQ groups years ago, or a BBQ web site or one
> of the books I purchased.
>
> Basic BBQ Rub
>
> 1/4 cup salt (non-iodized)
> 3 Tbs Brown Sugar
> 2 Tbs Black Pepper
> 1 Tbs. Garlic (granulated)
> 1 Tbs. Paprika
> 1 Tbs. Chili Powder
> 1 Tsp. Sugar
> 1 Tsp. Onion Powder
> 1 Tsp. ground Cumin
> 1 Tsp. Red Pepper (I use 1/4 tsp.)
>

Thanks for the proportions, much appreciated! I know one of my
ingredients was coriander (I'd just bought it to use in the
cauliflower/sweet potato dish I posted a couple of days ago), so I
could replace the chili powder with that, replace the red pepper
(flakes?) with cayenne and use 2T of salt. Q: Why 2 kinds of sugar?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/16/2014 8:21 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Mayo wrote:
>>
>> On 9/15/2014 8:17 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>>> The only time foil
>>> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
>>> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
>>
>> I'll disagree there.
>>
>> Ribs love a foil wrap and finish.
>>
>> Brisket too.
>
> Not in my experience. Indeed with either, if you try to wrap to finish
> it ruins the rub on the meat.
>
Not at all.

What I do is unfoil, glaze, and a few minutes each side over hot coals.

Bark is back, taste and moisture remain inside.

On 9/16/2014 9:14 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 05:17:28 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:51:24 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>>
>>> He's sort of right.
>>>
>>> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
>>> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.
>>
>> The youtube I watched didn't splash much on at all, it wasn't even
>> close to a braise... more like humidifying.
>>>
>>> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
>>> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.
>>
>> I figured the slurry would help do that plus add some flavor. What I
>> saw wasn't fancy. They sprinkled a little unmodified apple juice over
>> their rib rack before wrapping it in foil.
>>>
>>> The wrap and hold, be it in a cooler or an old blanket is sound strategy
>>> and lets the meat rest and re-absorb juices.
>
> For brisket I just spread with yellow mustard and then sprinkle on the
> seasoning rub -- probably let it sit in the fridge overnight.
> Janet US
>


Nice, very traditional from what I've seen at many of these competitions.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:23:48 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> sf wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:20:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > It shouldn't be a method when you're behind schedule as that implies
> > > increasing the temp which is not compatible with BBQ. Smoking a few
> > > hours then finishing in the oven is simply a method to be lazy and not
> > > tend a fire in the smoker for hours. The oven temp should be the same as
> > > the smoker, just without the smoke, no foil either, just put the brisket
> > > on a rack elevated above a drip pan since it will still render off a lot
> > > of fat as it finishes cooking.
> >
> > I like that. One of those 18 hour roasts can be finished off in the
> > oven so I wouldn't have to tend the fire and could get some sleep.
>
> Exactly.
>
> > >
> > > The theory of "humidifying" in a smoker as a method to prevent meat from
> > > drying out has been pretty well disproven in the various tests I've
> > > read.
> >
> > I read that a pan of water evens out the heat... kind of like tuning
> > plates would. My set up is so small, a 9x13 pan set under the grills
> > in the cooking chamber kind of dominates the space (where the meat
> > goes), so it really does work to tune the box. Between that and a
> > baffle, I had no hot spots and no trouble.
>
> It's thermal mass certainly. A pan of sand is preferred by some folks,
> or of course any sort of bricks, blocks, etc. wrapped in foil if they're
> porous.

The sand idea is a new one on me, but I like it. I'm going to stick
with water for a bit and then see what else I want to do.

> It's the same as the pizza stone I keep in my oven, it's more
> thermal mass to reduce temp swings when I open the door and it also
> blocks direct radiant heat from the bottom coils much like the baffle in
> an offset to block radiant from the firebox.

Okay, that makes sense. My pizza stones live in my ovens too.
>
> >
> > > Mops that are applied in the smoker don't add moisture to the
> > > meat, rather they usually have sugars and will form a glaze on the meat
> > > which will tend to hold in the meats juices. Mostly the keys to not
> > > drying out meat are to not overcook it, and to let it rest before you
> > > cut it much the same as with any conventional roast.
> >
> > The idea of mopping still doesn't make a lot of sense to me because
> > you're cooling down the cooking chamber while you're mopping and
> > adding to the overall cooking time as a result.
>
> Yes, that's why you mop fast, or some folks use a spray bottle. Thermal
> mass in the smoke chamber helps compensate for the lost heat, and you
> can also throttle up the dampers for a few min to makeup heat as well. I
> don't mop, just my dry rub and I avoid opening as much as possible. The
> remote thermometers help with that.

I've heard of spray bottles for a BBQ, but haven't thought about them
since. Thanks for reminding me! I think I'll just stick with a rub
the first time and see how it goes.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/16/2014 1:46 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:20:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>>
>> It shouldn't be a method when you're behind schedule as that implies
>> increasing the temp which is not compatible with BBQ. Smoking a few
>> hours then finishing in the oven is simply a method to be lazy and not
>> tend a fire in the smoker for hours. The oven temp should be the same as
>> the smoker, just without the smoke, no foil either, just put the brisket
>> on a rack elevated above a drip pan since it will still render off a lot
>> of fat as it finishes cooking.
>
> I like that. One of those 18 hour roasts can be finished off in the
> oven so I wouldn't have to tend the fire and could get some sleep.
>>

Yes, it works. Keep in mind, it drips a lot of fat. It may be on a rack
in the smoker, but needs a pan in the oven.


>
> The idea of mopping still doesn't make a lot of sense to me because
> you're cooling down the cooking chamber while you're mopping and
> adding to the overall cooking time as a result.
>
>
Correct.
When you're looin' you're not cookin' I never found any real advantage
to mopping, but it is popular.

On 9/16/2014 9:30 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Mayo wrote:
>>
>> On 9/15/2014 2:51 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:02:24 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>
>>> snip
>>>>
>>>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>>>> longer with a slurry too?
>>>
>>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
>>> Janet US
>>>
>>
>> That's a very long time, longer than I've ever done.
>
> As the saying goes, "it's done when it's done", and time is only an
> estimate.

Agreed.

> You need to monitor the internal temp for the ~190F plateau
> and wait for it to start climbing again. That is the most reliable
> indicator that it's done and should be followed by a fork test to
> confirm.

Myron Mixon says 205 - close enough.

> Wrapping and resting for a period before cutting will also help
> ensure it doesn't dry out. 18-20 hours matches with my experience in my
> offset smoker for the typical 12-16# packer cut brisket, especially if I
> put two in the smoker along with a few racks of ribs to fill it up. The
> ribs obviously come out long before the brisket is done.

I sold my offset years back, so I have a different profile for my
electric smoker.

On 9/16/2014 9:50 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> You thermometer is off.

You mind is off.

On 9/16/2014 11:01 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> I don't recall ever
> getting much of a stall with butt in the oven,

That's because your head should be in there!

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:26:56 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

> One heretical tip I once read -- smoke only penetrates during the first 2-3
> hours of BBQing, and the meat can simply be kept at the right temperature
> for the rest of the cooking time.

I saw that too, which is why my mind immediately to finishing it in
the oven so that I can reclaim the space for something else if I'm
cooking for more than just us. I'm thinking a brisket can go on
first, get it smoked, move it to the oven and then put the ribs on.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/16/2014 11:29 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/16/2014 8:17 AM, sf wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:51:24 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>>
>>> He's sort of right.
>>>
>>> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
>>> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.
>>
>> The youtube I watched didn't splash much on at all, it wasn't even
>> close to a braise... more like humidifying.
>>>
>>> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
>>> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.
>>
>> I figured the slurry would help do that plus add some flavor. What I
>> saw wasn't fancy. They sprinkled a little unmodified apple juice over
>> their rib rack before wrapping it in foil.
>
>>
>>
>
> Welcome to the religious wars. You have the foilers, the anti foilers,
> orthodox foilers. It is black and white and gray all over depending on
> what side of the aisle you are on.
>
> With a packer cut brisket you have a fair amount of fat to protect it
> and I never use foil. Tried it, did not like the end result. With a
> flat, I'd consider using some foil part of the time so as no to dry it
> out. Too long a time in foil you get a steamed sort of taste/texture.

You're making a key distinction there, the packer cut has so much m,ass
and fat cap that foiling may not be to its advantage.

The flat cut can go dry very easily, and that cut is what we see in most
grocers.


> A fellow at work was telling me head the the best ribs ever when on
> vacation. The last hour they were wrapped in foil with honey and butter.
>
> With ribs, try making two racks. Wrap one, leave the other naked, then
> make up your own mind.

Sound advice again!

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:17:34 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> 'If' you should happen to decide to get a packer cut of brisket at
> Cash and Carry, be careful. They also sell corned beef packaged the
> exact same way. They look alike. Read before you buy

Thanks for the warning, I'm very likely to do something like that too.
Not that I'd mind a corned beef, but not when I want brisket. In
fact, you just reminded me that I want to try turning corned beef into
pastrami sometime. http://bbq.about.com/od/beef/ss/aa051109a.htm




--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:24:24 -0700, sf > wrote:

snip
dunno, I just go with it. Too much trouble to follow up.
I guess I didn't question it because I have one or two teriyaki
marinades that use two kinds of sugar.
Janet US

On 9/16/2014 11:37 AM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:14:28 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
>
>> For brisket I just spread with yellow mustard and then sprinkle on the
>> seasoning rub -- probably let it sit in the fridge overnight.
>
> That sounds good. Which reminds me, I need to add yellow mustard to
> my grocery list. Do you make your own rub, follow a recipe or buy a
> commercial blend? I threw together my own blend without measuring.
> Wish I'd been a little more careful, because I *really* like what I
> did. Two things I didn't do was use a lot of sugar and no chili
> powder. I do NOT like a chile flavor on BBQ'd meat, although I did
> add a little cayenne for heat.
>
>
For whatever reason, perhaps the same as you, I'm not a huge red chile
in rub fan either. A really good smoked paprika adds so much depth of
flavor without any tendency to taste bitter. For heat I like white pepper.

And for whatever reason, I've made rubs with red chile that got bitter.

Now a good ancho chile powder rub on a steak over coals never has that
issue, so I suspect it's the time, and smoke that work against it in rubs.

On 9/16/2014 12:30 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:37:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:14:28 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> For brisket I just spread with yellow mustard and then sprinkle on the
>>> seasoning rub -- probably let it sit in the fridge overnight.
>>
>> That sounds good. Which reminds me, I need to add yellow mustard to
>> my grocery list. Do you make your own rub, follow a recipe or buy a
>> commercial blend? I threw together my own blend without measuring.
>> Wish I'd been a little more careful, because I *really* like what I
>> did. Two things I didn't do was use a lot of sugar and no chili
>> powder. I do NOT like a chile flavor on BBQ'd meat, although I did
>> add a little cayenne for heat.
>
> This is what I use. You'll find this recipe or something almost
> exactly like it everywhere. I actually use it for fried chicken as
> well. I think all the ingredients are necessary. I got this either
> from one of the cooking/BBQ groups years ago, or a BBQ web site or one
> of the books I purchased.
>
> Basic BBQ Rub
>
> 1/4 cup salt (non-iodized)
> 3 Tbs Brown Sugar
> 2 Tbs Black Pepper
> 1 Tbs. Garlic (granulated)
> 1 Tbs. Paprika
> 1 Tbs. Chili Powder
> 1 Tsp. Sugar
> 1 Tsp. Onion Powder
> 1 Tsp. ground Cumin
> 1 Tsp. Red Pepper (I use 1/4 tsp.)
>
> Janet US
>

My version subs in smoked paprika and white pepper.

I have also used a bit (tsp.) of very finely ground coffee with good
results.

Some say cocoa is good too.

On 9/16/2014 1:11 PM, sf wrote:
> My set up is very small. I might be able to get two racks in there if
> I cut one of them in half. One rack goes on diagonally, not
> horizontally.


I'm curious, which brand and model did you buy?

http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/clarke-ribs-recipe.htm

Note from the TLC Editors: This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters
recipe. Our Pitmasters are really spontaneous and like to create their
recipes on the fly, so measurements and cook times are a little loose.
Tweak the recipes to suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food
for more tips.

INGREDIENTS
RUB
mustard
salt
cayenne
chili powder
brown sugar
paprika
garlic powder
onion powder
WRAP
honey
brown sugar
liquid margarine
peach juice
spare ribs
PREPARATION:

Trim ribs to St. Louis style, remove membrane.
Coat a thin layer of mustard. Apply rub over mustard. Allow 15 min for
ribs to sit & absorb.
Cook at low temp for 3 hours, then place in wrap and return to heat for
another 45 min.
If necessary, place ribs for a short time on high heat to prefect
caramelization.

Mayo wrote:
>
> On 9/16/2014 9:30 AM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > Mayo wrote:
> >>
> >> On 9/15/2014 2:51 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:02:24 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> snip
> >>>>
> >>>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> >>>> longer with a slurry too?
> >>>
> >>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> >>> Janet US
> >>>
> >>
> >> That's a very long time, longer than I've ever done.
> >
> > As the saying goes, "it's done when it's done", and time is only an
> > estimate.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > You need to monitor the internal temp for the ~190F plateau
> > and wait for it to start climbing again. That is the most reliable
> > indicator that it's done and should be followed by a fork test to
> > confirm.
>
> Myron Mixon says 205 - close enough.
>
> > Wrapping and resting for a period before cutting will also help
> > ensure it doesn't dry out. 18-20 hours matches with my experience in my
> > offset smoker for the typical 12-16# packer cut brisket, especially if I
> > put two in the smoker along with a few racks of ribs to fill it up. The
> > ribs obviously come out long before the brisket is done.
>
> I sold my offset years back, so I have a different profile for my
> electric smoker.

A friend of mine just got a pellet smoker, I'll have to give it a try
and see how it works. In theory at least if should give real wood fired
smoking with the convenience of a regular oven.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:55:25 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> On 9/16/2014 12:30 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:37:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:14:28 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> For brisket I just spread with yellow mustard and then sprinkle on the
> >>> seasoning rub -- probably let it sit in the fridge overnight.
> >>
> >> That sounds good. Which reminds me, I need to add yellow mustard to
> >> my grocery list. Do you make your own rub, follow a recipe or buy a
> >> commercial blend? I threw together my own blend without measuring.
> >> Wish I'd been a little more careful, because I *really* like what I
> >> did. Two things I didn't do was use a lot of sugar and no chili
> >> powder. I do NOT like a chile flavor on BBQ'd meat, although I did
> >> add a little cayenne for heat.
> >
> > This is what I use. You'll find this recipe or something almost
> > exactly like it everywhere. I actually use it for fried chicken as
> > well. I think all the ingredients are necessary. I got this either
> > from one of the cooking/BBQ groups years ago, or a BBQ web site or one
> > of the books I purchased.
> >
> > Basic BBQ Rub
> >
> > 1/4 cup salt (non-iodized)
> > 3 Tbs Brown Sugar
> > 2 Tbs Black Pepper
> > 1 Tbs. Garlic (granulated)
> > 1 Tbs. Paprika
> > 1 Tbs. Chili Powder
> > 1 Tsp. Sugar
> > 1 Tsp. Onion Powder
> > 1 Tsp. ground Cumin
> > 1 Tsp. Red Pepper (I use 1/4 tsp.)
> >
> > Janet US
> >
>
> My version subs in smoked paprika and white pepper.
>
> I have also used a bit (tsp.) of very finely ground coffee with good
> results.
>
> Some say cocoa is good too.

Cocoa does sound good, it's a little mole twist.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> On 9/16/2014 1:46 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:20:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> It shouldn't be a method when you're behind schedule as that implies
> >> increasing the temp which is not compatible with BBQ. Smoking a few
> >> hours then finishing in the oven is simply a method to be lazy and not
> >> tend a fire in the smoker for hours. The oven temp should be the same as
> >> the smoker, just without the smoke, no foil either, just put the brisket
> >> on a rack elevated above a drip pan since it will still render off a lot
> >> of fat as it finishes cooking.
> >
> > I like that. One of those 18 hour roasts can be finished off in the
> > oven so I wouldn't have to tend the fire and could get some sleep.
> >>
>
> Yes, it works. Keep in mind, it drips a lot of fat. It may be on a rack
> in the smoker, but needs a pan in the oven.

Further it needs to be on a rack that holds it above the drip pan so it
doesn't sit in the rendered fat, and the deeper the drip pan the better.
If you only have a shallow baking sheet be prepared to check it every
hour and drain accumulated fat lest it overflow.

>
> >
> > The idea of mopping still doesn't make a lot of sense to me because
> > you're cooling down the cooking chamber while you're mopping and
> > adding to the overall cooking time as a result.
> >
> >
> Correct.
> When you're looin' you're not cookin' I never found any real advantage
> to mopping, but it is popular.

I BBQ place in town does a mop/glaze on their ribs and it's pretty good.
A different style than the dry rub I do of course, but good nonetheless.
The only style I don't really care for is the mustard style.

Mayo wrote:
>
> On 9/16/2014 8:21 AM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > Mayo wrote:
> >>
> >> On 9/15/2014 8:17 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> >>> The only time foil
> >>> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
> >>> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
> >>
> >> I'll disagree there.
> >>
> >> Ribs love a foil wrap and finish.
> >>
> >> Brisket too.
> >
> > Not in my experience. Indeed with either, if you try to wrap to finish
> > it ruins the rub on the meat.
> >
> Not at all.
>
> What I do is unfoil, glaze, and a few minutes each side over hot coals.
>
> Bark is back, taste and moisture remain inside.

Glaze is different from dry rub, I only do dry rub and foiling before
it's done wrecks the rub. Once cooked foiling and storing in a cooler
doesn't seem to hurt it.

On 9/16/2014 3:39 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Mayo wrote:
>>
>> On 9/16/2014 9:30 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>>>
>>> Mayo wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 9/15/2014 2:51 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:02:24 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>>>>>> longer with a slurry too?
>>>>>
>>>>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's a very long time, longer than I've ever done.
>>>
>>> As the saying goes, "it's done when it's done", and time is only an
>>> estimate.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>>> You need to monitor the internal temp for the ~190F plateau
>>> and wait for it to start climbing again. That is the most reliable
>>> indicator that it's done and should be followed by a fork test to
>>> confirm.
>>
>> Myron Mixon says 205 - close enough.
>>
>>> Wrapping and resting for a period before cutting will also help
>>> ensure it doesn't dry out. 18-20 hours matches with my experience in my
>>> offset smoker for the typical 12-16# packer cut brisket, especially if I
>>> put two in the smoker along with a few racks of ribs to fill it up. The
>>> ribs obviously come out long before the brisket is done.
>>
>> I sold my offset years back, so I have a different profile for my
>> electric smoker.
>
> A friend of mine just got a pellet smoker, I'll have to give it a try
> and see how it works. In theory at least if should give real wood fired
> smoking with the convenience of a regular oven.
>

Watch the hopper feed action, some are better than others.

I read a lot of the comments on Myron Mixon's little pellet grill and it
has some design issues.

The Traeger line is pretty well-rated.

Bradley uses biscuits and they have their fans too.

The real key is not over-smoking. It'll be interesting to hear back how
it goes.

sf wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:26:56 -0700 (PDT),
> wrote:
>
> > One heretical tip I once read -- smoke only penetrates during the first 2-3
> > hours of BBQing, and the meat can simply be kept at the right temperature
> > for the rest of the cooking time.
>
> I saw that too, which is why my mind immediately to finishing it in
> the oven so that I can reclaim the space for something else if I'm
> cooking for more than just us. I'm thinking a brisket can go on
> first, get it smoked, move it to the oven and then put the ribs on.

Yep. Once you figure your brisket timing for a flat then you can time it
so both are done at about the same time, target that for an hour before
serving, wrap and rest in a cooler and you're good to go.

On 9/16/2014 3:46 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:55:25 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> On 9/16/2014 12:30 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:37:40 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:14:28 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For brisket I just spread with yellow mustard and then sprinkle on the
>>>>> seasoning rub -- probably let it sit in the fridge overnight.
>>>>
>>>> That sounds good. Which reminds me, I need to add yellow mustard to
>>>> my grocery list. Do you make your own rub, follow a recipe or buy a
>>>> commercial blend? I threw together my own blend without measuring.
>>>> Wish I'd been a little more careful, because I *really* like what I
>>>> did. Two things I didn't do was use a lot of sugar and no chili
>>>> powder. I do NOT like a chile flavor on BBQ'd meat, although I did
>>>> add a little cayenne for heat.
>>>
>>> This is what I use. You'll find this recipe or something almost
>>> exactly like it everywhere. I actually use it for fried chicken as
>>> well. I think all the ingredients are necessary. I got this either
>>> from one of the cooking/BBQ groups years ago, or a BBQ web site or one
>>> of the books I purchased.
>>>
>>> Basic BBQ Rub
>>>
>>> 1/4 cup salt (non-iodized)
>>> 3 Tbs Brown Sugar
>>> 2 Tbs Black Pepper
>>> 1 Tbs. Garlic (granulated)
>>> 1 Tbs. Paprika
>>> 1 Tbs. Chili Powder
>>> 1 Tsp. Sugar
>>> 1 Tsp. Onion Powder
>>> 1 Tsp. ground Cumin
>>> 1 Tsp. Red Pepper (I use 1/4 tsp.)
>>>
>>> Janet US
>>>
>>
>> My version subs in smoked paprika and white pepper.
>>
>> I have also used a bit (tsp.) of very finely ground coffee with good
>> results.
>>
>> Some say cocoa is good too.
>
> Cocoa does sound good, it's a little mole twist.
>
>
I haven't been brave enough yet, plus it generally winds up in Brown
eyed Susans.

;-)

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:59:46 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> On 9/16/2014 1:11 PM, sf wrote:
> > My set up is very small. I might be able to get two racks in there if
> > I cut one of them in half. One rack goes on diagonally, not
> > horizontally.
>
>
> I'm curious, which brand and model did you buy?

It's a Smoke Hollow 3300 Grill & Smoker 3-In-1 Combo.
http://www.fleetfarm.com/products/im...0000205266.jpg
I wanted a duel fuel so I could decide what I prefer and/or do best
with. I also have a notebook grill that we put in our fireplace
http://s.s-bol.com/imgbase0/imagebas...4012549107.jpg
in the winter if we want to charcoal grill when it's raining, but I
find I don't do that very often because I grill a mean steak in the
cast iron pan and I have a double burner grill pan that does a great
job too.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:22:44 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> I tend to use a few (2) ounces of good cider, and a dash of cider vinegar.

Oh, sounds good! It would have taken me a long time to figure that
one out.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:36:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> >
> > The idea of mopping still doesn't make a lot of sense to me because
> > you're cooling down the cooking chamber while you're mopping and
> > adding to the overall cooking time as a result.
> >
> >
> Correct.
> When you're looin' you're not cookin' I never found any real advantage
> to mopping, but it is popular.
>
Thanks! That was my gut instinct.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:29:05 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> What I do is unfoil, glaze, and a few minutes each side over hot coals.
>
> Bark is back, taste and moisture remain inside.

Good tip, thanks!


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:07:51 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

>
> http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/clarke-ribs-recipe.htm
>
> Note from the TLC Editors: This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters
> recipe. Our Pitmasters are really spontaneous and like to create their
> recipes on the fly, so measurements and cook times are a little loose.
> Tweak the recipes to suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food
> for more tips.

Thanks.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/16/2014 4:05 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:59:46 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> On 9/16/2014 1:11 PM, sf wrote:
>>> My set up is very small. I might be able to get two racks in there if
>>> I cut one of them in half. One rack goes on diagonally, not
>>> horizontally.
>>
>>
>> I'm curious, which brand and model did you buy?
>
> It's a Smoke Hollow 3300 Grill & Smoker 3-In-1 Combo.
> http://www.fleetfarm.com/products/im...0000205266.jpg
> I wanted a duel fuel so I could decide what I prefer and/or do best
> with. I also have a notebook grill that we put in our fireplace
> http://s.s-bol.com/imgbase0/imagebas...4012549107.jpg
> in the winter if we want to charcoal grill when it's raining, but I
> find I don't do that very often because I grill a mean steak in the
> cast iron pan and I have a double burner grill pan that does a great
> job too.
>
>
Very nice looking, and one brand I am not familiar with...but the
smokebox is on the wrong side %-)

Mine was on the left.

I like that you get a gas grill with it to finish and sear.

The notebook grill is just a great design, isn't it?

On 9/16/2014 4:06 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:22:44 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> I tend to use a few (2) ounces of good cider, and a dash of cider vinegar.
>
> Oh, sounds good! It would have taken me a long time to figure that
> one out.
>
>
One of those small laundry squirt bottle does the trick.

Just don't forget it's not water and spritz your yeast dinner rolls ;-(

On 9/16/2014 4:09 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:29:05 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> What I do is unfoil, glaze, and a few minutes each side over hot coals.
>>
>> Bark is back, taste and moisture remain inside.
>
> Good tip, thanks!
>
>
And you have flame right here when needed - perfect!

On 9/16/2014 4:14 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:07:51 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>>
>> http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/clarke-ribs-recipe.htm
>>
>> Note from the TLC Editors: This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters
>> recipe. Our Pitmasters are really spontaneous and like to create their
>> recipes on the fly, so measurements and cook times are a little loose.
>> Tweak the recipes to suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food
>> for more tips.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
I've made this one, it works, enjoy.

Somewhere I've got a good Asian rib recipe stashed, I'll break that one
out too.

On 9/15/2014 10:51 PM, Mayo wrote:
> On 9/15/2014 8:43 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:17:09 -0500, "Pete C." >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>>>>>>> longer with a slurry too?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
>>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>
>>>>> Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
>>>>> wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
>>>> and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent
>>>> drying.
>>>>
>>>> I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
>>>> hours. Flat will probably be half that.
>>>
>>> Drying out is definitely an issue with just a flat. Some folks top with
>>> bacon to baste it a bit. I never do small briskets, or small anything.
>>> If I'm going to manage the smoker all day I'm going to fill it up, then
>>> portion, vac bag and freeze the extra for future use. Making BBQ is not
>>> something you do for a quick meal, but pulling BBQ from the freezer and
>>> reheating is.
>>>
>>> For a full large packer cut brisket I find the smoke/cook times are more
>>> like the noted 18-20 hours at 275. Time isn't as important as temp
>>> though on a brisket, you need to install your Polder type probe
>>> thermometer and monitor the temp. The temperature will rise steadily
>>> until it gets somewhere around 190F then it will plateau and hold at
>>> that temp for some time. This is the time the collagen is breaking down
>>> and the brisket is becoming tender.
>>>
>>> When the temperature begins to rise again it's time to check it with a
>>> fork twist and remove it from the smoker. Wrapping in foil and a towel
>>> and putting it in a cooler will let you hold it ready to slice and serve
>>> for a couple hours if needed. Since the brisket won't absorb any smoke
>>> after a few hours you don't need to keep adding smoking wood, and you
>>> can get away with moving the brisket to an oven at the same 275 for the
>>> remainder of the cook.
>>>
>>> If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
>>> valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
>>> use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
>>> with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
>>> hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time foil
>>> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
>>> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
>>
>> Okay, but now I'm confused. Apparently there are diverging opinions
>> on this subject.
>
> He's sort of right.
>
> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.
>
> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.
>
> The wrap and hold, be it in a cooler or an old blanket is sound strategy
> and lets the meat rest and re-absorb juices.
>

I do wrap and hold in a styrofoam cooler. The meat is foiled then
wrapped in a couple of old towels before going into the cooler. I do
this with brisket and pork butt.

I seem to have perfected smoking ribs on the gas grill (it has 6 burners
so it's perfect for offset cooking) and they always come out perfect. I
use a wrapped chunk of pecan or hickory to create smoke.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 9/16/2014 4:56 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 9/15/2014 10:51 PM, Mayo wrote:
>> On 9/15/2014 8:43 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:17:09 -0500, "Pete C." >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>>>>>>>> longer with a slurry too?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
>>>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
>>>>>> wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
>>>>> and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent
>>>>> drying.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
>>>>> hours. Flat will probably be half that.
>>>>
>>>> Drying out is definitely an issue with just a flat. Some folks top with
>>>> bacon to baste it a bit. I never do small briskets, or small anything.
>>>> If I'm going to manage the smoker all day I'm going to fill it up, then
>>>> portion, vac bag and freeze the extra for future use. Making BBQ is not
>>>> something you do for a quick meal, but pulling BBQ from the freezer and
>>>> reheating is.
>>>>
>>>> For a full large packer cut brisket I find the smoke/cook times are
>>>> more
>>>> like the noted 18-20 hours at 275. Time isn't as important as temp
>>>> though on a brisket, you need to install your Polder type probe
>>>> thermometer and monitor the temp. The temperature will rise steadily
>>>> until it gets somewhere around 190F then it will plateau and hold at
>>>> that temp for some time. This is the time the collagen is breaking down
>>>> and the brisket is becoming tender.
>>>>
>>>> When the temperature begins to rise again it's time to check it with a
>>>> fork twist and remove it from the smoker. Wrapping in foil and a towel
>>>> and putting it in a cooler will let you hold it ready to slice and
>>>> serve
>>>> for a couple hours if needed. Since the brisket won't absorb any smoke
>>>> after a few hours you don't need to keep adding smoking wood, and you
>>>> can get away with moving the brisket to an oven at the same 275 for the
>>>> remainder of the cook.
>>>>
>>>> If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
>>>> valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
>>>> use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
>>>> with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
>>>> hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time foil
>>>> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
>>>> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
>>>
>>> Okay, but now I'm confused. Apparently there are diverging opinions
>>> on this subject.
>>
>> He's sort of right.
>>
>> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
>> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.
>>
>> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
>> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.
>>
>> The wrap and hold, be it in a cooler or an old blanket is sound strategy
>> and lets the meat rest and re-absorb juices.
>>
>
> I do wrap and hold in a styrofoam cooler.

I have one too, they're cheap and hose out well.

> The meat is foiled then
> wrapped in a couple of old towels before going into the cooler. I do
> this with brisket and pork butt.

Nice.

> I seem to have perfected smoking ribs on the gas grill (it has 6 burners
> so it's perfect for offset cooking) and they always come out perfect. I
> use a wrapped chunk of pecan or hickory to create smoke.

The technique works as well with gas as charcoal or other fuels.

That Weber "Smoke" book I mentioned has some really good recipes.

Btw, 6 burners is a LOT! Would one of those be a rotisserie burner?

On 9/16/2014 6:05 PM, Mayo wrote:
> On 9/16/2014 4:56 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>> On 9/15/2014 10:51 PM, Mayo wrote:
>>> On 9/15/2014 8:43 PM, sf wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:17:09 -0500, "Pete C." >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>>>>>>>>> longer with a slurry too?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
>>>>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
>>>>>>> wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
>>>>>> and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent
>>>>>> drying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
>>>>>> hours. Flat will probably be half that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Drying out is definitely an issue with just a flat. Some folks top
>>>>> with
>>>>> bacon to baste it a bit. I never do small briskets, or small anything.
>>>>> If I'm going to manage the smoker all day I'm going to fill it up,
>>>>> then
>>>>> portion, vac bag and freeze the extra for future use. Making BBQ is
>>>>> not
>>>>> something you do for a quick meal, but pulling BBQ from the freezer
>>>>> and
>>>>> reheating is.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a full large packer cut brisket I find the smoke/cook times are
>>>>> more
>>>>> like the noted 18-20 hours at 275. Time isn't as important as temp
>>>>> though on a brisket, you need to install your Polder type probe
>>>>> thermometer and monitor the temp. The temperature will rise steadily
>>>>> until it gets somewhere around 190F then it will plateau and hold at
>>>>> that temp for some time. This is the time the collagen is breaking
>>>>> down
>>>>> and the brisket is becoming tender.
>>>>>
>>>>> When the temperature begins to rise again it's time to check it with a
>>>>> fork twist and remove it from the smoker. Wrapping in foil and a towel
>>>>> and putting it in a cooler will let you hold it ready to slice and
>>>>> serve
>>>>> for a couple hours if needed. Since the brisket won't absorb any smoke
>>>>> after a few hours you don't need to keep adding smoking wood, and you
>>>>> can get away with moving the brisket to an oven at the same 275 for
>>>>> the
>>>>> remainder of the cook.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
>>>>> valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
>>>>> use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
>>>>> with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
>>>>> hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time
>>>>> foil
>>>>> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
>>>>> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
>>>>
>>>> Okay, but now I'm confused. Apparently there are diverging opinions
>>>> on this subject.
>>>
>>> He's sort of right.
>>>
>>> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
>>> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.
>>>
>>> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
>>> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.
>>>
>>> The wrap and hold, be it in a cooler or an old blanket is sound strategy
>>> and lets the meat rest and re-absorb juices.
>>>
>>
>> I do wrap and hold in a styrofoam cooler.
>
> I have one too, they're cheap and hose out well.
>
>> The meat is foiled then
>> wrapped in a couple of old towels before going into the cooler. I do
>> this with brisket and pork butt.
>
> Nice.
>
>> I seem to have perfected smoking ribs on the gas grill (it has 6 burners
>> so it's perfect for offset cooking) and they always come out perfect. I
>> use a wrapped chunk of pecan or hickory to create smoke.
>
> The technique works as well with gas as charcoal or other fuels.
>
> That Weber "Smoke" book I mentioned has some really good recipes.
>
> Btw, 6 burners is a LOT! Would one of those be a rotisserie burner?
>

No. There are 6 burners in the grill and one side burner. This was the
toy of my late husband of blessed memory. We named it "Grillzilla"

We would have anywhere from 30 to 60 guests and he would grill hot dogs
and burgers and I'd make all the salads myself.

After I finish my radiation treatment and get my scan, I'm throwing a
barbecue for all the people who drove me, helped me, called me, etc. My
oncologist says he'll come, too. I will probably smoke something
earlier and have dogs and burgers, too. If prices are low enough, I
could also do some ribs, but they'd be an advanced thing, too.

I'll make all the salads myself and do some baking.

Probably won't happen until early December as they wait quite a while to
do the PET scan after the last radiation treatment.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

I went to alt.food.barbecue to see what that's all about. It's filled
with trolls and spam. Not one decent thread since June when Piedmont
wondered where everyone went. Hope there's a decent BBQ group to join
on Facebook.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/16/2014 7:14 PM, sf wrote:
>
>
> I went to alt.food.barbecue to see what that's all about. It's filled
> with trolls and spam. Not one decent thread since June when Piedmont
> wondered where everyone went. Hope there's a decent BBQ group to join
> on Facebook.
>
>
Go to the web site. It's filled with excellent information.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:28:32 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> On 9/16/2014 4:06 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:22:44 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
> >
> >> I tend to use a few (2) ounces of good cider, and a dash of cider vinegar.
> >
> > Oh, sounds good! It would have taken me a long time to figure that
> > one out.
> >
> >
> One of those small laundry squirt bottle does the trick.
>
> Just don't forget it's not water and spritz your yeast dinner rolls ;-(

Oh, how well aquatinted I am with that. I keep an ammonia and water
mixture in one that I want kept next to the sink, but hubby always
puts next to the stove. I have bad dreams about spritzing that into
the oven by accident one day.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.