http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/diva-q-ribs-recipe.htm

Note from the TLC Editors: This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters
recipe. Our Pitmasters are really spontaneous and like to create their
recipes on the fly, so measurements and cook times are a little loose.
Tweak the recipes to suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food
for more tips.

INGREDIENTS
INJECTION
lime juice
chipotle powder
pineapple juice
canola oil
molasses
DIVA Q RIB RUB
cumin
cayenne pepper
chipotle peppers
paprika
DIVA RIB WRAP SLURRY
brown sugar
honey
apple juice
butter
ribs
PREPARATION:

Remove back flap. Trim to a St. Louis cut.
Apply rub, then place on cooker at 225-250 degrees for 2 1/2 hours.
Remove ribs from cooker and wrap. Cook another 2 hours.
Periodically baste with juices.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:09:43 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/diva-q-ribs-recipe.htm
>
> Note from the TLC Editors: This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters
> recipe. Our Pitmasters are really spontaneous and like to create their
> recipes on the fly, so measurements and cook times are a little loose.
> Tweak the recipes to suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food
> for more tips.
>
> INGREDIENTS
<snip>
> DIVA RIB WRAP SLURRY
> brown sugar
> honey
> apple juice
> butter
> ribs
> PREPARATION:
>
> Remove back flap. Trim to a St. Louis cut.
> Apply rub, then place on cooker at 225-250 degrees for 2 1/2 hours.
> Remove ribs from cooker and wrap. Cook another 2 hours.
> Periodically baste with juices.

Thanks, I have a rub I like and I like a version of SC mustard sauce,
so I'm interested in the slurry part now.

Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
longer with a slurry too?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:02:24 -0700, sf > wrote:

snip
>
>Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>longer with a slurry too?

prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
Janet US

On 9/15/2014 2:02 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:09:43 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/diva-q-ribs-recipe.htm
>>
>> Note from the TLC Editors: This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters
>> recipe. Our Pitmasters are really spontaneous and like to create their
>> recipes on the fly, so measurements and cook times are a little loose.
>> Tweak the recipes to suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food
>> for more tips.
>>
>> INGREDIENTS
> <snip>
>> DIVA RIB WRAP SLURRY
>> brown sugar
>> honey
>> apple juice
>> butter
>> ribs
>> PREPARATION:
>>
>> Remove back flap. Trim to a St. Louis cut.
>> Apply rub, then place on cooker at 225-250 degrees for 2 1/2 hours.
>> Remove ribs from cooker and wrap. Cook another 2 hours.
>> Periodically baste with juices.
>
> Thanks, I have a rub I like and I like a version of SC mustard sauce,
> so I'm interested in the slurry part now.
>
> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> longer with a slurry too?

Absolutely yes - you start it in an open foil pan to get the smoke in.

If you're using Myron Mixon's quicker cooking method he recommends 2&1/2
hours at 350F ( a fairly high heat for smoking) and then cover it with
foil and let sit in the smoker until a remote temp probe shows 205 F
internal temp. From there he actually pulls it out of the smoker, wraps
the covered pan in an old blanket and lets it rest for 3-4 hours and serves.

It's a pretty unorthodox method for sure.

And he doesn't use a slurry for moisture.

A more traditional way of doing it is the Bubba Q's version:

http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/bub...ket-recipe.htm

This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters recipe. Our Pitmasters are
really spontaneous and like to create their recipes on the fly, so
measurements and cook times are a little loose. Tweak the recipes to
suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food for more tips.

INGREDIENTS
INJECTION
beef broth
worcestershire sauce
seasoning
Bailey's
olive oil
RUB
paprika
peppers
chili powder
Papain
brisket
PREPARATION:

Trim all but 1/8 inch of fat. Scrape knife across silver skin to break
it down.
Inject brisket, then rub with olive oil before applying BBQ rub.
Let sit until room temperature.
Cook at 225 degrees for 2-3 hours.
Raise to 250 degrees. Cook 2-3 hours until int. temp of 170 degrees.
Remove and cut off point. Place over foil. Pour injection over and
reseason. Wrap foil and return to cooker.
Cook 4-6 hours until int. temp of 195 degrees, then unwrap to firm up bark.
Remove from heat, soak in au jus and let cool before slicing and serving.

On 9/15/2014 2:51 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:02:24 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> snip
>>
>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>> longer with a slurry too?
>
> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> Janet US
>

That's a very long time, longer than I've ever done.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:51:07 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:02:24 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> snip
> >
> >Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> >longer with a slurry too?
>
> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> Janet US

Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:34:42 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:51:07 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:02:24 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>> snip
>> >
>> >Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>> >longer with a slurry too?
>>
>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
>> Janet US
>
>Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
>wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.

Oh, o.k.
Janet US

On 9/15/2014 1:09 PM, Mayo wrote:
> http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/diva-q-ribs-recipe.htm
>
> Note from the TLC Editors: This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters
> recipe. Our Pitmasters are really spontaneous and like to create their
> recipes on the fly, so measurements and cook times are a little loose.
> Tweak the recipes to suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food
> for more tips.
>
> INGREDIENTS
> INJECTION
> lime juice
> chipotle powder
> pineapple juice
> canola oil
> molasses
> DIVA Q RIB RUB
> cumin
> cayenne pepper
> chipotle peppers
> paprika
> DIVA RIB WRAP SLURRY
> brown sugar
> honey
> apple juice
> butter
> ribs
> PREPARATION:
>
> Remove back flap. Trim to a St. Louis cut.
> Apply rub, then place on cooker at 225-250 degrees for 2 1/2 hours.
> Remove ribs from cooker and wrap. Cook another 2 hours.
> Periodically baste with juices.


Too many ingredients for me. I just rub them and smoke them. Not a
single person has ever complained about my ribs and they were my late
husband's favorite.

We Texans are not known for watering down our meat while cooking it. We
even serve Barbecue sauce on the side, never on the meat.

--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 9/15/2014 7:03 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 9/15/2014 1:09 PM, Mayo wrote:
>> http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/diva-q-ribs-recipe.htm
>>
>> Note from the TLC Editors: This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters
>> recipe. Our Pitmasters are really spontaneous and like to create their
>> recipes on the fly, so measurements and cook times are a little loose.
>> Tweak the recipes to suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food
>> for more tips.
>>
>> INGREDIENTS
>> INJECTION
>> lime juice
>> chipotle powder
>> pineapple juice
>> canola oil
>> molasses
>> DIVA Q RIB RUB
>> cumin
>> cayenne pepper
>> chipotle peppers
>> paprika
>> DIVA RIB WRAP SLURRY
>> brown sugar
>> honey
>> apple juice
>> butter
>> ribs
>> PREPARATION:
>>
>> Remove back flap. Trim to a St. Louis cut.
>> Apply rub, then place on cooker at 225-250 degrees for 2 1/2 hours.
>> Remove ribs from cooker and wrap. Cook another 2 hours.
>> Periodically baste with juices.
>
>
> Too many ingredients for me. I just rub them and smoke them. Not a
> single person has ever complained about my ribs and they were my late
> husband's favorite.
>
> We Texans are not known for watering down our meat while cooking it. We
> even serve Barbecue sauce on the side, never on the meat.
>
Texas BBQ is known for slat and a pepper and not much else, you're
purists who let the smoke do the talking, which is cool.

Given the choice between Texan BBQ and KC - it's Tejas all the way!

But there is merit in giving ribs a good flavor sauna too, as Diva Q does.

I believe they're from Portland, Or.

On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:

>>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>>> longer with a slurry too?
>>
>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
>> Janet US
>
> Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
> wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
>
>
You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent drying.

I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
hours. Flat will probably be half that.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> >>> longer with a slurry too?
> >>
> >> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> >> Janet US
> >
> > Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
> > wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
> >
> >
> You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
> and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent drying.
>
> I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
> hours. Flat will probably be half that.

Drying out is definitely an issue with just a flat. Some folks top with
bacon to baste it a bit. I never do small briskets, or small anything.
If I'm going to manage the smoker all day I'm going to fill it up, then
portion, vac bag and freeze the extra for future use. Making BBQ is not
something you do for a quick meal, but pulling BBQ from the freezer and
reheating is.

For a full large packer cut brisket I find the smoke/cook times are more
like the noted 18-20 hours at 275. Time isn't as important as temp
though on a brisket, you need to install your Polder type probe
thermometer and monitor the temp. The temperature will rise steadily
until it gets somewhere around 190F then it will plateau and hold at
that temp for some time. This is the time the collagen is breaking down
and the brisket is becoming tender.

When the temperature begins to rise again it's time to check it with a
fork twist and remove it from the smoker. Wrapping in foil and a towel
and putting it in a cooler will let you hold it ready to slice and serve
for a couple hours if needed. Since the brisket won't absorb any smoke
after a few hours you don't need to keep adding smoking wood, and you
can get away with moving the brisket to an oven at the same 275 for the
remainder of the cook.

If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time foil
is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
meat at serving temperature in a cooler.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:26:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> >>> longer with a slurry too?
> >>
> >> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> >> Janet US
> >
> > Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
> > wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
> >
> >
> You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
> and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent drying.
>
> I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
> hours. Flat will probably be half that.

I have never in my entire life seen, or ever heard of a packer cut...
so you're right: what I think of as a brisket must be what you call
flat.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:17:09 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> > On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
> >
> > >>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> > >>> longer with a slurry too?
> > >>
> > >> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> > >> Janet US
> > >
> > > Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
> > > wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
> > >
> > >
> > You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
> > and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent drying.
> >
> > I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
> > hours. Flat will probably be half that.
>
> Drying out is definitely an issue with just a flat. Some folks top with
> bacon to baste it a bit. I never do small briskets, or small anything.
> If I'm going to manage the smoker all day I'm going to fill it up, then
> portion, vac bag and freeze the extra for future use. Making BBQ is not
> something you do for a quick meal, but pulling BBQ from the freezer and
> reheating is.
>
> For a full large packer cut brisket I find the smoke/cook times are more
> like the noted 18-20 hours at 275. Time isn't as important as temp
> though on a brisket, you need to install your Polder type probe
> thermometer and monitor the temp. The temperature will rise steadily
> until it gets somewhere around 190F then it will plateau and hold at
> that temp for some time. This is the time the collagen is breaking down
> and the brisket is becoming tender.
>
> When the temperature begins to rise again it's time to check it with a
> fork twist and remove it from the smoker. Wrapping in foil and a towel
> and putting it in a cooler will let you hold it ready to slice and serve
> for a couple hours if needed. Since the brisket won't absorb any smoke
> after a few hours you don't need to keep adding smoking wood, and you
> can get away with moving the brisket to an oven at the same 275 for the
> remainder of the cook.
>
> If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
> valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
> use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
> with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
> hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time foil
> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.

Okay, but now I'm confused. Apparently there are diverging opinions
on this subject.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/15/2014 8:17 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> The only time foil
> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.

I'll disagree there.

Ribs love a foil wrap and finish.

Brisket too.

On 9/15/2014 8:43 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:17:09 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>>>>>> longer with a slurry too?
>>>>>
>>>>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
>>>>> Janet US
>>>>
>>>> Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
>>>> wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
>>> and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent drying.
>>>
>>> I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
>>> hours. Flat will probably be half that.
>>
>> Drying out is definitely an issue with just a flat. Some folks top with
>> bacon to baste it a bit. I never do small briskets, or small anything.
>> If I'm going to manage the smoker all day I'm going to fill it up, then
>> portion, vac bag and freeze the extra for future use. Making BBQ is not
>> something you do for a quick meal, but pulling BBQ from the freezer and
>> reheating is.
>>
>> For a full large packer cut brisket I find the smoke/cook times are more
>> like the noted 18-20 hours at 275. Time isn't as important as temp
>> though on a brisket, you need to install your Polder type probe
>> thermometer and monitor the temp. The temperature will rise steadily
>> until it gets somewhere around 190F then it will plateau and hold at
>> that temp for some time. This is the time the collagen is breaking down
>> and the brisket is becoming tender.
>>
>> When the temperature begins to rise again it's time to check it with a
>> fork twist and remove it from the smoker. Wrapping in foil and a towel
>> and putting it in a cooler will let you hold it ready to slice and serve
>> for a couple hours if needed. Since the brisket won't absorb any smoke
>> after a few hours you don't need to keep adding smoking wood, and you
>> can get away with moving the brisket to an oven at the same 275 for the
>> remainder of the cook.
>>
>> If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
>> valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
>> use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
>> with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
>> hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time foil
>> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
>> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
>
> Okay, but now I'm confused. Apparently there are diverging opinions
> on this subject.

He's sort of right.

Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.

Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.

The wrap and hold, be it in a cooler or an old blanket is sound strategy
and lets the meat rest and re-absorb juices.

On 9/15/2014 9:06 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:03:57 -0500, Janet Wilder wrote:
>
>> On 9/15/2014 1:09 PM, Mayo wrote:
>>> http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/diva-q-ribs-recipe.htm
>>>
>>> Note from the TLC Editors: This recipe is an authentic BBQ Pitmasters
>>> recipe. Our Pitmasters are really spontaneous and like to create their
>>> recipes on the fly, so measurements and cook times are a little loose.
>>> Tweak the recipes to suit your tastes and check out How to Grill Food
>>> for more tips.
>>>
>>> INGREDIENTS
>>> INJECTION
>>> lime juice
>>> chipotle powder
>>> pineapple juice
>>> canola oil
>>> molasses
>>> DIVA Q RIB RUB
>>> cumin
>>> cayenne pepper
>>> chipotle peppers
>>> paprika
>>> DIVA RIB WRAP SLURRY
>>> brown sugar
>>> honey
>>> apple juice
>>> butter
>>> ribs
>>> PREPARATION:
>>>
>>> Remove back flap. Trim to a St. Louis cut.
>>> Apply rub, then place on cooker at 225-250 degrees for 2 1/2 hours.
>>> Remove ribs from cooker and wrap. Cook another 2 hours.
>>> Periodically baste with juices.
>>
>> Too many ingredients for me. I just rub them and smoke them. Not a
>> single person has ever complained about my ribs and they were my late
>> husband's favorite.
>>
>> We Texans are not known for watering down our meat while cooking it. We
>> even serve Barbecue sauce on the side, never on the meat.
>
> I don't know or care who this "Diva" is, but nobody in their right
> mind injects pork spare ribs (or back ribs).

Sure they do.

In fact Myron Mixon get the same results by brining them before the rub
goes on.

> And especially with LIME
> JUICE. And then it gets even more ridiculous when they wrap them for
> two hours, yet continue to baste them. Idiots, whoever or whatever
> they are.
>
> -sw

You have even less of a clue about cooking ribs than your trollish svengali.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:43:44 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:17:09 -0500, "Pete C." >


>>
>> If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
>> valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
>> use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
>> with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
>> hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time foil
>> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
>> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
>
>Okay, but now I'm confused. Apparently there are diverging opinions
>on this subject.

I have seen methods for a packer cut of brisket that involve smoking
the meat for several hours and then wrapping in foil and finishing in
the oven. I think of that as a 'rescue' method, used when the weather
turns nasty or you don't have time to baby sit a hunk of meat. The
first place I saw this method was Cooks Illustrated probably 10/15
years ago. It turns out a nice piece of meat.
Janet US

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:51:24 -0600, Mayo > wrote:

> He's sort of right.
>
> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.

The youtube I watched didn't splash much on at all, it wasn't even
close to a braise... more like humidifying.
>
> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.

I figured the slurry would help do that plus add some flavor. What I
saw wasn't fancy. They sprinkled a little unmodified apple juice over
their rib rack before wrapping it in foil.
>
> The wrap and hold, be it in a cooler or an old blanket is sound strategy
> and lets the meat rest and re-absorb juices.



--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:33:48 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:43:44 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:17:09 -0500, "Pete C." >
>
>
> >>
> >> If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
> >> valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
> >> use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
> >> with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
> >> hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time foil
> >> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
> >> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
> >
> >Okay, but now I'm confused. Apparently there are diverging opinions
> >on this subject.
>
> I have seen methods for a packer cut of brisket that involve smoking
> the meat for several hours and then wrapping in foil and finishing in
> the oven. I think of that as a 'rescue' method, used when the weather
> turns nasty or you don't have time to baby sit a hunk of meat. The
> first place I saw this method was Cooks Illustrated probably 10/15
> years ago. It turns out a nice piece of meat.

I watched a few youtube videos before I did the ribs and one of them
said you get all the smoke flavor in the first couple of hours, so I
can see people wrapping meat and finishing it off in the oven after
that when they're behind schedule and have people to feed.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

sf wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:33:48 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> > wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:43:44 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >
> > >On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:17:09 -0500, "Pete C." >
> >
> >
> > >>
> > >> If you're going to cook in a "slurry" that isn't BBQ it's braising. A
> > >> valid cooking method for sure, but not at all BBQ. In BBQ some people
> > >> use a "mop" which would be like the "slurry" but applied periodically
> > >> with a brush or mop during the cook, and usually after the first few
> > >> hours so it doesn't interfere with smoke absorption. The only time foil
> > >> is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
> > >> meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
> > >
> > >Okay, but now I'm confused. Apparently there are diverging opinions
> > >on this subject.
> >
> > I have seen methods for a packer cut of brisket that involve smoking
> > the meat for several hours and then wrapping in foil and finishing in
> > the oven. I think of that as a 'rescue' method, used when the weather
> > turns nasty or you don't have time to baby sit a hunk of meat. The
> > first place I saw this method was Cooks Illustrated probably 10/15
> > years ago. It turns out a nice piece of meat.
>
> I watched a few youtube videos before I did the ribs and one of them
> said you get all the smoke flavor in the first couple of hours, so I
> can see people wrapping meat and finishing it off in the oven after
> that when they're behind schedule and have people to feed.

It shouldn't be a method when you're behind schedule as that implies
increasing the temp which is not compatible with BBQ. Smoking a few
hours then finishing in the oven is simply a method to be lazy and not
tend a fire in the smoker for hours. The oven temp should be the same as
the smoker, just without the smoke, no foil either, just put the brisket
on a rack elevated above a drip pan since it will still render off a lot
of fat as it finishes cooking.

The theory of "humidifying" in a smoker as a method to prevent meat from
drying out has been pretty well disproven in the various tests I've
read. Mops that are applied in the smoker don't add moisture to the
meat, rather they usually have sugars and will form a glaze on the meat
which will tend to hold in the meats juices. Mostly the keys to not
drying out meat are to not overcook it, and to let it rest before you
cut it much the same as with any conventional roast.

Mayo wrote:
>
> On 9/15/2014 8:17 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> > The only time foil
> > is ever valid in BBQ is when the cook is over and you need to hold the
> > meat at serving temperature in a cooler.
>
> I'll disagree there.
>
> Ribs love a foil wrap and finish.
>
> Brisket too.

Not in my experience. Indeed with either, if you try to wrap to finish
it ruins the rub on the meat.

sf wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:26:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> > On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
> >
> > >>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> > >>> longer with a slurry too?
> > >>
> > >> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> > >> Janet US
> > >
> > > Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
> > > wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
> > >
> > >
> > You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
> > and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent drying.
> >
> > I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
> > hours. Flat will probably be half that.
>
> I have never in my entire life seen, or ever heard of a packer cut...
> so you're right: what I think of as a brisket must be what you call
> flat.

Yes, the packer cut briskets are unheard of on the coasts. I never saw
one in CT in all the years I was there, just flats and usually the
corned beef ones. You can get packer cut briskets anywhere, you just
need to know they exist and have a decent market order one for you.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:41:38 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:26:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>> >>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
>> >>> longer with a slurry too?
>> >>
>> >> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
>> >> Janet US
>> >
>> > Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
>> > wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
>> >
>> >
>> You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
>> and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent drying.
>>
>> I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
>> hours. Flat will probably be half that.
>
>I have never in my entire life seen, or ever heard of a packer cut...
>so you're right: what I think of as a brisket must be what you call
>flat.

Here it is just called brisket and all stores carry them in the pork
section. I think they label the two smaller cuts by name. A packer
cut in my experience is cryo-packed. It's probably 15-18 inches long,
maybe 8-10 inches wide and can weigh from 12 - 18 pounds (by my
recollection).
Janet US

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 05:17:28 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:51:24 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> He's sort of right.
>>
>> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
>> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.
>
>The youtube I watched didn't splash much on at all, it wasn't even
>close to a braise... more like humidifying.
>>
>> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
>> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.
>
>I figured the slurry would help do that plus add some flavor. What I
>saw wasn't fancy. They sprinkled a little unmodified apple juice over
>their rib rack before wrapping it in foil.
>>
>> The wrap and hold, be it in a cooler or an old blanket is sound strategy
>> and lets the meat rest and re-absorb juices.

For brisket I just spread with yellow mustard and then sprinkle on the
seasoning rub -- probably let it sit in the fridge overnight.
Janet US

Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:41:38 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:26:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/15/2014 5:34 PM, sf wrote:
> >>
> >> >>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> >> >>> longer with a slurry too?
> >> >>
> >> >> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> >> >> Janet US
> >> >
> >> > Holy cow! That's more than double the times I've been reading. I
> >> > wasn't going to make a huge one, just 4-5 lbs.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
> >> and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent drying.
> >>
> >> I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
> >> hours. Flat will probably be half that.
> >
> >I have never in my entire life seen, or ever heard of a packer cut...
> >so you're right: what I think of as a brisket must be what you call
> >flat.
>
> Here it is just called brisket and all stores carry them in the pork
> section. I think they label the two smaller cuts by name. A packer
> cut in my experience is cryo-packed. It's probably 15-18 inches long,
> maybe 8-10 inches wide and can weigh from 12 - 18 pounds (by my
> recollection).
> Janet US

i.e a big ol' slab o' dead cow that with a little trimming and rubbing
and a long slow smoking makes some of the tastiest meat around.

Mayo wrote:
>
> On 9/15/2014 2:51 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:02:24 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >
> > snip
> >>
> >> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> >> longer with a slurry too?
> >
> > prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> > Janet US
> >
>
> That's a very long time, longer than I've ever done.

As the saying goes, "it's done when it's done", and time is only an
estimate. You need to monitor the internal temp for the ~190F plateau
and wait for it to start climbing again. That is the most reliable
indicator that it's done and should be followed by a fork test to
confirm. Wrapping and resting for a period before cutting will also help
ensure it doesn't dry out. 18-20 hours matches with my experience in my
offset smoker for the typical 12-16# packer cut brisket, especially if I
put two in the smoker along with a few racks of ribs to fill it up. The
ribs obviously come out long before the brisket is done.

Sqwertz wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:30:14 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Mayo wrote:
> >>
> >> On 9/15/2014 2:51 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:02:24 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> snip
> >>>>
> >>>> Thinking I'll try a brisket this week. Is it wrapped and cooked
> >>>> longer with a slurry too?
> >>>
> >>> prepare for a long cooking time 18-20 hours.
> >>> Janet US
> >>>
> >>
> >> That's a very long time, longer than I've ever done.
> >
> > As the saying goes, "it's done when it's done", and time is only an
> > estimate. You need to monitor the internal temp for the ~190F plateau
> > and wait for it to start climbing again.
>
> You thermometer is off. The "plateau" as you call it, happens around
> 150-170F in butts and briskets.
>
> http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_tech...the_stall.html
>
> -sw

It may well be, those Polders aren't exactly laboratory grade.
Regardless of the exact temp it's the plateau / stall that you're
watching for and importantly when it ends.

On 9/16/2014 8:17 AM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:51:24 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
>
>> He's sort of right.
>>
>> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
>> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.
>
> The youtube I watched didn't splash much on at all, it wasn't even
> close to a braise... more like humidifying.
>>
>> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
>> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.
>
> I figured the slurry would help do that plus add some flavor. What I
> saw wasn't fancy. They sprinkled a little unmodified apple juice over
> their rib rack before wrapping it in foil.

>
>

Welcome to the religious wars. You have the foilers, the anti foilers,
orthodox foilers. It is black and white and gray all over depending on
what side of the aisle you are on.

With a packer cut brisket you have a fair amount of fat to protect it
and I never use foil. Tried it, did not like the end result. With a
flat, I'd consider using some foil part of the time so as no to dry it
out. Too long a time in foil you get a steamed sort of taste/texture.

A fellow at work was telling me head the the best ribs ever when on
vacation. The last hour they were wrapped in foil with honey and butter.

With ribs, try making two racks. Wrap one, leave the other naked, then
make up your own mind.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:14:28 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> For brisket I just spread with yellow mustard and then sprinkle on the
> seasoning rub -- probably let it sit in the fridge overnight.

That sounds good. Which reminds me, I need to add yellow mustard to
my grocery list. Do you make your own rub, follow a recipe or buy a
commercial blend? I threw together my own blend without measuring.
Wish I'd been a little more careful, because I *really* like what I
did. Two things I didn't do was use a lot of sugar and no chili
powder. I do NOT like a chile flavor on BBQ'd meat, although I did
add a little cayenne for heat.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/16/2014 10:23 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>


>
> Yes, the packer cut briskets are unheard of on the coasts. I never saw
> one in CT in all the years I was there, just flats and usually the
> corned beef ones. You can get packer cut briskets anywhere, you just
> need to know they exist and have a decent market order one for you.
>

They exist in CT, but are rare. Now that Wal Mart has food stores in CT
you can find them there at times. I usually go to Fairway Beef in
Worcester, MA to get them.

Brisket (as well as other forms of bbq) have only become popular in the
northeast in the past 15 years or so. The internet and TV have spread
the word. Growing up in Philadelphia, I never heard of these things
until I was in my mid 40's and traveled to NC.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:20:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:
>
> It shouldn't be a method when you're behind schedule as that implies
> increasing the temp which is not compatible with BBQ. Smoking a few
> hours then finishing in the oven is simply a method to be lazy and not
> tend a fire in the smoker for hours. The oven temp should be the same as
> the smoker, just without the smoke, no foil either, just put the brisket
> on a rack elevated above a drip pan since it will still render off a lot
> of fat as it finishes cooking.

I like that. One of those 18 hour roasts can be finished off in the
oven so I wouldn't have to tend the fire and could get some sleep.
>
> The theory of "humidifying" in a smoker as a method to prevent meat from
> drying out has been pretty well disproven in the various tests I've
> read.

I read that a pan of water evens out the heat... kind of like tuning
plates would. My set up is so small, a 9x13 pan set under the grills
in the cooking chamber kind of dominates the space (where the meat
goes), so it really does work to tune the box. Between that and a
baffle, I had no hot spots and no trouble.

> Mops that are applied in the smoker don't add moisture to the
> meat, rather they usually have sugars and will form a glaze on the meat
> which will tend to hold in the meats juices. Mostly the keys to not
> drying out meat are to not overcook it, and to let it rest before you
> cut it much the same as with any conventional roast.

The idea of mopping still doesn't make a lot of sense to me because
you're cooling down the cooking chamber while you're mopping and
adding to the overall cooking time as a result.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:10:34 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:41:38 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >I have never in my entire life seen, or ever heard of a packer cut...
> >so you're right: what I think of as a brisket must be what you call
> >flat.
>
> Here it is just called brisket and all stores carry them in the pork
> section. I think they label the two smaller cuts by name. A packer
> cut in my experience is cryo-packed. It's probably 15-18 inches long,
> maybe 8-10 inches wide and can weigh from 12 - 18 pounds (by my
> recollection).

Thanks, I think Cash & Carry has full sized briskets - but I've never
looked at them seriously because they're so huge. Also, Safeway has
started doing things like letting us ask buy a single whole cryovac'd
pork butt (instead of making us buy packages of two like they did in
the past), so the regular grocery store another possibility. I will
assume briskets come as a packer's cut and then are broken down to be
sold, so I don't see them as a consumer.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:25:48 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

> i.e a big ol' slab o' dead cow that with a little trimming and rubbing
> and a long slow smoking makes some of the tastiest meat around.

I'm hungry.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 9/16/2014 11:10 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:

>
> Here it is just called brisket and all stores carry them in the pork
> section. I think they label the two smaller cuts by name.

In the pork section? That is very odd as brisket is often bough by
Jewish people for other than bbq.

The two cuts are the flat and the point. The point sits on one and the
the grain runs 90 degrees to the flat.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:59:33 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:10:34 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:41:38 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>> >I have never in my entire life seen, or ever heard of a packer cut...
>> >so you're right: what I think of as a brisket must be what you call
>> >flat.
>>
>> Here it is just called brisket and all stores carry them in the pork
>> section. I think they label the two smaller cuts by name. A packer
>> cut in my experience is cryo-packed. It's probably 15-18 inches long,
>> maybe 8-10 inches wide and can weigh from 12 - 18 pounds (by my
>> recollection).
>
>Thanks, I think Cash & Carry has full sized briskets - but I've never
>looked at them seriously because they're so huge. Also, Safeway has
>started doing things like letting us ask buy a single whole cryovac'd
>pork butt (instead of making us buy packages of two like they did in
>the past), so the regular grocery store another possibility. I will
>assume briskets come as a packer's cut and then are broken down to be
>sold, so I don't see them as a consumer.

'If' you should happen to decide to get a packer cut of brisket at
Cash and Carry, be careful. They also sell corned beef packaged the
exact same way. They look alike. Read before you buy
Janet US

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:06:16 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 9/16/2014 11:10 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
>>
>> Here it is just called brisket and all stores carry them in the pork
>> section. I think they label the two smaller cuts by name.
>
>In the pork section? That is very odd as brisket is often bough by
>Jewish people for other than bbq.
>
>The two cuts are the flat and the point. The point sits on one and the
>the grain runs 90 degrees to the flat.

I was just hoping that no one caught that ;( I have no idea where my
fingers got that idea from??
Janet US

sf wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:20:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
> >
> > It shouldn't be a method when you're behind schedule as that implies
> > increasing the temp which is not compatible with BBQ. Smoking a few
> > hours then finishing in the oven is simply a method to be lazy and not
> > tend a fire in the smoker for hours. The oven temp should be the same as
> > the smoker, just without the smoke, no foil either, just put the brisket
> > on a rack elevated above a drip pan since it will still render off a lot
> > of fat as it finishes cooking.
>
> I like that. One of those 18 hour roasts can be finished off in the
> oven so I wouldn't have to tend the fire and could get some sleep.

Exactly.

> >
> > The theory of "humidifying" in a smoker as a method to prevent meat from
> > drying out has been pretty well disproven in the various tests I've
> > read.
>
> I read that a pan of water evens out the heat... kind of like tuning
> plates would. My set up is so small, a 9x13 pan set under the grills
> in the cooking chamber kind of dominates the space (where the meat
> goes), so it really does work to tune the box. Between that and a
> baffle, I had no hot spots and no trouble.

It's thermal mass certainly. A pan of sand is preferred by some folks,
or of course any sort of bricks, blocks, etc. wrapped in foil if they're
porous. It's the same as the pizza stone I keep in my oven, it's more
thermal mass to reduce temp swings when I open the door and it also
blocks direct radiant heat from the bottom coils much like the baffle in
an offset to block radiant from the firebox.

>
> > Mops that are applied in the smoker don't add moisture to the
> > meat, rather they usually have sugars and will form a glaze on the meat
> > which will tend to hold in the meats juices. Mostly the keys to not
> > drying out meat are to not overcook it, and to let it rest before you
> > cut it much the same as with any conventional roast.
>
> The idea of mopping still doesn't make a lot of sense to me because
> you're cooling down the cooking chamber while you're mopping and
> adding to the overall cooking time as a result.

Yes, that's why you mop fast, or some folks use a spray bottle. Thermal
mass in the smoke chamber helps compensate for the lost heat, and you
can also throttle up the dampers for a few min to makeup heat as well. I
don't mop, just my dry rub and I avoid opening as much as possible. The
remote thermometers help with that.

On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:23:31 AM UTC-7, Pete C. wrote:
> sf wrote:
>
> >
>
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:26:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> > > You mean a flat? Different than doing packer cut. Flats are trimmed
> > > and can easily be dried out. Sometimes they are larded to prevent drying.
>
> > > I do packer cuts trimmed a bit and smoke at 250 to 275 for 10 to 12
> > > hours. Flat will probably be half that.
>
> > I have never in my entire life seen, or ever heard of a packer cut...
> > so you're right: what I think of as a brisket must be what you call
> > flat.
>
> Yes, the packer cut briskets are unheard of on the coasts. I never saw
> one in CT in all the years I was there, just flats and usually the
> corned beef ones. You can get packer cut briskets anywhere, you just
> need to know they exist and have a decent market order one for you.

On the West Coast, Smart and Final stores sell packer-cut briskets,
cryovac'd from IBP. The point is virtually all fat, so I don't know
how that turns out. It is not labeled "packer cut," just "beef brisket."

As far as rubs go, I like GWiv's rub, available from The Spice House.
But that seems to work best with pork.

One heretical tip I once read -- smoke only penetrates during the first 2-3
hours of BBQing, and the meat can simply be kept at the right temperature
for the rest of the cooking time.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:37:40 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:14:28 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> For brisket I just spread with yellow mustard and then sprinkle on the
>> seasoning rub -- probably let it sit in the fridge overnight.
>
>That sounds good. Which reminds me, I need to add yellow mustard to
>my grocery list. Do you make your own rub, follow a recipe or buy a
>commercial blend? I threw together my own blend without measuring.
>Wish I'd been a little more careful, because I *really* like what I
>did. Two things I didn't do was use a lot of sugar and no chili
>powder. I do NOT like a chile flavor on BBQ'd meat, although I did
>add a little cayenne for heat.

This is what I use. You'll find this recipe or something almost
exactly like it everywhere. I actually use it for fried chicken as
well. I think all the ingredients are necessary. I got this either
from one of the cooking/BBQ groups years ago, or a BBQ web site or one
of the books I purchased.

Basic BBQ Rub

1/4 cup salt (non-iodized)
3 Tbs Brown Sugar
2 Tbs Black Pepper
1 Tbs. Garlic (granulated)
1 Tbs. Paprika
1 Tbs. Chili Powder
1 Tsp. Sugar
1 Tsp. Onion Powder
1 Tsp. ground Cumin
1 Tsp. Red Pepper (I use 1/4 tsp.)

Janet US

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:29:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On 9/16/2014 8:17 AM, sf wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:51:24 -0600, Mayo > wrote:
> >
> >> He's sort of right.
> >>
> >> Wrapping or foiling a brisket with some slurry to finish is not braising
> >> as the smoke has already done it's job on an open cut of beef.
> >
> > The youtube I watched didn't splash much on at all, it wasn't even
> > close to a braise... more like humidifying.
> >>
> >> Foiling allows the natural brisket juices to keep it moist and provides
> >> a base sauce for re-hydrating it before serving.
> >
> > I figured the slurry would help do that plus add some flavor. What I
> > saw wasn't fancy. They sprinkled a little unmodified apple juice over
> > their rib rack before wrapping it in foil.
>
> >
> >
>
> Welcome to the religious wars. You have the foilers, the anti foilers,
> orthodox foilers. It is black and white and gray all over depending on
> what side of the aisle you are on.

Aha, so that's what it's all about! I'm obviously not in any
religious BBQing loop and completely clueless.
>
> With a packer cut brisket you have a fair amount of fat to protect it
> and I never use foil. Tried it, did not like the end result. With a
> flat, I'd consider using some foil part of the time so as no to dry it
> out. Too long a time in foil you get a steamed sort of taste/texture.

I'll probably end up with a flat, so I'll use foil the last hour. Do
you use any liquid with beef? What's your view about cooking it the
day before and reheating? I don't normally like leftovers, but that's
a long cooking time and I'm not so sure I'll finish it at a reasonable
hour.
>
> A fellow at work was telling me head the the best ribs ever when on
> vacation. The last hour they were wrapped in foil with honey and butter.
>
> With ribs, try making two racks. Wrap one, leave the other naked, then
> make up your own mind.

My set up is very small. I might be able to get two racks in there if
I cut one of them in half. One rack goes on diagonally, not
horizontally.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.