On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:01:31 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> sf wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 20:05:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > sf wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> > > > > avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> > > > > and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> > > > > costs on the things they do buy.
> > > >
> > > > That's a false argument for those who grow their own.
> > >
> > > Spent much time in CO? I didn't think so. I have and most everyone has a
> > > greenhouse and grows some of their own food. There are also a number of
> > > local organic co-op type operations.
> >
> > They have no reason not to object.
>
> Er, exactly though I don't think that's what you intended to write.

You're right.

Colorado isn't just wide open spaces filled with animals and home
gardens and the group of people you mentioned have zero reason to
object to a labeling law.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

sf wrote:
>
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:01:31 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > sf wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 20:05:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > sf wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> > > > > > avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> > > > > > and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> > > > > > costs on the things they do buy.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's a false argument for those who grow their own.
> > > >
> > > > Spent much time in CO? I didn't think so. I have and most everyone has a
> > > > greenhouse and grows some of their own food. There are also a number of
> > > > local organic co-op type operations.
> > >
> > > They have no reason not to object.
> >
> > Er, exactly though I don't think that's what you intended to write.
>
> You're right.
>
> Colorado isn't just wide open spaces filled with animals and home
> gardens and the group of people you mentioned have zero reason to
> object to a labeling law.

No, there is the stoner dung heap known as Denver, and the PYV dung heap
of Breckenridge.

Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:25:05 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> sf wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:01:31 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > sf wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 20:05:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > sf wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> > > > > > > avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> > > > > > > and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> > > > > > > costs on the things they do buy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's a false argument for those who grow their own.
> > > > >
> > > > > Spent much time in CO? I didn't think so. I have and most everyone has a
> > > > > greenhouse and grows some of their own food. There are also a number of
> > > > > local organic co-op type operations.
> > > >
> > > > They have no reason not to object.
> > >
> > > Er, exactly though I don't think that's what you intended to write.
> >
> > You're right.
> >
> > Colorado isn't just wide open spaces filled with animals and home
> > gardens and the group of people you mentioned have zero reason to
> > object to a labeling law.
>
> No, there is the stoner dung heap known as Denver, and the PYV dung heap
> of Breckenridge.
>
> Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.

Rising prices are a fact of life and people are willing to pony up the
money.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

sf wrote:
>
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:25:05 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > sf wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:01:31 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > sf wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 20:05:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sf wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> > > > > > > > avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> > > > > > > > and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> > > > > > > > costs on the things they do buy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's a false argument for those who grow their own.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spent much time in CO? I didn't think so. I have and most everyone has a
> > > > > > greenhouse and grows some of their own food. There are also a number of
> > > > > > local organic co-op type operations.
> > > > >
> > > > > They have no reason not to object.
> > > >
> > > > Er, exactly though I don't think that's what you intended to write.
> > >
> > > You're right.
> > >
> > > Colorado isn't just wide open spaces filled with animals and home
> > > gardens and the group of people you mentioned have zero reason to
> > > object to a labeling law.
> >
> > No, there is the stoner dung heap known as Denver, and the PYV dung heap
> > of Breckenridge.
> >
> > Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> > folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> > object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> > products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> > a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.
>
> Rising prices are a fact of life and people are willing to pony up the
> money.

For inflation yes (really devaluation of the dollar), for increased
costs associated with a law to humor a tiny minority of the population
they don't agree with, no.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 12:43:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> sf wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:25:05 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > sf wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:01:31 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > sf wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 20:05:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sf wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> > > > > > > > > avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> > > > > > > > > and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> > > > > > > > > costs on the things they do buy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That's a false argument for those who grow their own.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Spent much time in CO? I didn't think so. I have and most everyone has a
> > > > > > > greenhouse and grows some of their own food. There are also a number of
> > > > > > > local organic co-op type operations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They have no reason not to object.
> > > > >
> > > > > Er, exactly though I don't think that's what you intended to write.
> > > >
> > > > You're right.
> > > >
> > > > Colorado isn't just wide open spaces filled with animals and home
> > > > gardens and the group of people you mentioned have zero reason to
> > > > object to a labeling law.
> > >
> > > No, there is the stoner dung heap known as Denver, and the PYV dung heap
> > > of Breckenridge.
> > >
> > > Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> > > folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> > > object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> > > products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> > > a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.
> >
> > Rising prices are a fact of life and people are willing to pony up the
> > money.
>
> For inflation yes (really devaluation of the dollar), for increased
> costs associated with a law to humor a tiny minority of the population
> they don't agree with, no.

Again, why do you or any of your grow your owners care when it doesn't
affect you?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

sf wrote:
>
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 12:43:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > sf wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:25:05 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > sf wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:01:31 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sf wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 20:05:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > sf wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> > > > > > > > > > avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> > > > > > > > > > and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> > > > > > > > > > costs on the things they do buy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That's a false argument for those who grow their own.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Spent much time in CO? I didn't think so. I have and most everyone has a
> > > > > > > > greenhouse and grows some of their own food. There are also a number of
> > > > > > > > local organic co-op type operations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They have no reason not to object.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Er, exactly though I don't think that's what you intended to write.
> > > > >
> > > > > You're right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Colorado isn't just wide open spaces filled with animals and home
> > > > > gardens and the group of people you mentioned have zero reason to
> > > > > object to a labeling law.
> > > >
> > > > No, there is the stoner dung heap known as Denver, and the PYV dung heap
> > > > of Breckenridge.
> > > >
> > > > Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> > > > folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> > > > object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> > > > products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> > > > a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.
> > >
> > > Rising prices are a fact of life and people are willing to pony up the
> > > money.
> >
> > For inflation yes (really devaluation of the dollar), for increased
> > costs associated with a law to humor a tiny minority of the population
> > they don't agree with, no.
>
> Again, why do you or any of your grow your owners care when it doesn't
> affect you?

I and most other "grow your owners" buy things like flour, sugar,
spices, oils and other things that are not particularly practical to
produce yourself in small scale. We most certainly object to a law to
humor a tiny minority that would increase our costs on the items we buy
notably.

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 9:30:15 AM UTC-7, notbob wrote:
> A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
> Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
> it failed!
>
> I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
> happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
> campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
> might be Franken-foods in their diet.
>
> "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
> food I'm putting into my body"
>
> nb --scratching head

The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive. I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be something that can actually be carried out.

My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.

DaleP

On 09/11/2014 11:41 AM, dalep wrote:

>
> The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive.
I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be
something that
can actually be carried out.
>
> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed
the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice
that many
frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs
don't seem
to be labeled.
>
> DaleP
>
Country of origin is *very* important. Lots of frozen fish is labelled
"Product of China" but in many cases it is our good ol' US and Canadian
companies taking our fish to China for processing, thus depriving our
fish-plant workers of employment.
There is a well known "maker" of fruit juices in the Okanagan Valley, a
major fruit growing area, that uses concentrates from China to make
those little juice packs that are present in so many schoolkids' lunch
boxes. One assumes that the product is Canadian or USian but the only
local ingredient is the water.
Graham

graham wrote:
>
> On 09/11/2014 11:41 AM, dalep wrote:
>
> >
> > The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive.
> I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be
> something that
> can actually be carried out.
> >
> > My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed
> the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice
> that many
> frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs
> don't seem
> to be labeled.
> >
> > DaleP
> >
> Country of origin is *very* important. Lots of frozen fish is labelled
> "Product of China" but in many cases it is our good ol' US and Canadian
> companies taking our fish to China for processing, thus depriving our
> fish-plant workers of employment.

Much of that US wild caught, "processed in China" fish has never even
been remotely close to China in reality. China operates some rather
amazing processing ships so the catch is transferred to them in the
middle of the ocean, processed on the ship and then transferred to a
transport ship to market without ever coming near land.

> There is a well known "maker" of fruit juices in the Okanagan Valley, a
> major fruit growing area, that uses concentrates from China to make
> those little juice packs that are present in so many schoolkids' lunch
> boxes. One assumes that the product is Canadian or USian but the only
> local ingredient is the water.
> Graham

Locate your plant, or even just your corporate mailing address in an
area known to produce item X and many people will assume you use local
X. Fortunately more and more people are paying attention to COO labeling
or lack thereof and adjusting their purchasing habits appropriately.
"Packaged in USA" and similar aren't fooling many people either.

On 09/11/2014 12:13 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> graham wrote:
>>
>> On 09/11/2014 11:41 AM, dalep wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive.
>> I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be
>> something that
>> can actually be carried out.
>>>
>>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed
>> the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice
>> that many
>> frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs
>> don't seem
>> to be labeled.
>>>
>>> DaleP
>>>
>> Country of origin is *very* important. Lots of frozen fish is labelled
>> "Product of China" but in many cases it is our good ol' US and Canadian
>> companies taking our fish to China for processing, thus depriving our
>> fish-plant workers of employment.
>
> Much of that US wild caught, "processed in China" fish has never even
> been remotely close to China in reality. China operates some rather
> amazing processing ships so the catch is transferred to them in the
> middle of the ocean, processed on the ship and then transferred to a
> transport ship to market without ever coming near land.

But when it says "Product of China" what are we to believe?

>
>> There is a well known "maker" of fruit juices in the Okanagan Valley, a
>> major fruit growing area, that uses concentrates from China to make
>> those little juice packs that are present in so many schoolkids' lunch
>> boxes. One assumes that the product is Canadian or USian but the only
>> local ingredient is the water.
>> Graham
>
> Locate your plant, or even just your corporate mailing address in an
> area known to produce item X and many people will assume you use local
> X. Fortunately more and more people are paying attention to COO labeling
> or lack thereof and adjusting their purchasing habits appropriately.
> "Packaged in USA" and similar aren't fooling many people either.
>
The trouble is that COO labelling applies only to the major ingredient,
in this case water!
Graham

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:40:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> sf wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 12:43:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > sf wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:25:05 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > sf wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:01:31 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sf wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 20:05:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > sf wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> > > > > > > > > > > avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> > > > > > > > > > > and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> > > > > > > > > > > costs on the things they do buy.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That's a false argument for those who grow their own.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Spent much time in CO? I didn't think so. I have and most everyone has a
> > > > > > > > > greenhouse and grows some of their own food. There are also a number of
> > > > > > > > > local organic co-op type operations.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They have no reason not to object.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Er, exactly though I don't think that's what you intended to write.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You're right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Colorado isn't just wide open spaces filled with animals and home
> > > > > > gardens and the group of people you mentioned have zero reason to
> > > > > > object to a labeling law.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, there is the stoner dung heap known as Denver, and the PYV dung heap
> > > > > of Breckenridge.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> > > > > folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> > > > > object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> > > > > products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> > > > > a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.
> > > >
> > > > Rising prices are a fact of life and people are willing to pony up the
> > > > money.
> > >
> > > For inflation yes (really devaluation of the dollar), for increased
> > > costs associated with a law to humor a tiny minority of the population
> > > they don't agree with, no.
> >
> > Again, why do you or any of your grow your owners care when it doesn't
> > affect you?
>
> I and most other "grow your owners" buy things like flour, sugar,
> spices, oils and other things that are not particularly practical to
> produce yourself in small scale. We most certainly object to a law to
> humor a tiny minority that would increase our costs on the items we buy
> notably.

Why is it so hard to keep gmo grains away from non-gmo? Monsanto
should have thought it through better.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 2014-11-09, graham > wrote:

> But when it says "Product of China" what are we to believe?

Believe it's from China.

US lobbyists, long ago, made it legal for Chinese companies to set up
mfg sites on American protectorates (Wake Is., American Samoa, etc),
hire Chinese or Indian labor, and still label the finished product as
"made in America".

nb

On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> wrote:

> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.

Thanks for the head's up! I look to see where fish, shellfish, fresh
fruit and vegetables originate, never thought about looking to see
where my frozen vegetables came from. My Trader Joe's frozen spinach
is a product of Mexico, TJ's petite peas and fire roasted corn are
products of the USA.

I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
look for it. This is one of those "how does it affect me" examples of
more government is better and I like it. I just need to develop
better habits and remember to look before I buy. Same with GMO
labeling. It will be great when that is the norm too. Tea Party
Republicans and Libertarians don't want to know what they're shoving
down their gullets, but the rest of us would like to have the tools to
make informed decisions.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> > wrote:
>
>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
>
> Thanks for the head's up! I look to see where fish, shellfish, fresh
> fruit and vegetables originate, never thought about looking to see
> where my frozen vegetables came from. My Trader Joe's frozen spinach
> is a product of Mexico, TJ's petite peas and fire roasted corn are
> products of the USA.
>
> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
> look for it.

One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
"Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
Graham

On 2014-11-09, graham > wrote:

> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!

How could you tell? Did the fish have slanty eyes? Did the bag
promise, "Me taste good long time"?

nb

On 2014-11-09 10:12 AM, Pete C. wrote:

> Recall the meat scandal that rocked the UK and is still ongoing. If you
> have to keep your processing plant GMO free does that mean you need to
> build quarantine warehouses and DNA testing labs so you can verify that
> the 50 tons of wheat flour the truck brought in doesn't contain any GMO
> wheat varieties? Do you think this will not increase food costs
> substantially?
>

It is not a disease. All they have to do is to put label on saying that
it is or is not GMO.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:04:46 -0700, graham > wrote:

> On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
> >
> > Thanks for the head's up! I look to see where fish, shellfish, fresh
> > fruit and vegetables originate, never thought about looking to see
> > where my frozen vegetables came from. My Trader Joe's frozen spinach
> > is a product of Mexico, TJ's petite peas and fire roasted corn are
> > products of the USA.
> >
> > I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
> > look for it.
>
> One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
> barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
> "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
> Graham

Was it a package within a package?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 2014-11-09 11:25 AM, Pete C. wrote:

> Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.
>

It sounds more like the expense you fear is actually segregating the GMO
from the non-GMO. Since so many products now contain GMO all they need
to do is to slap a label on when there is GMO products, and they know
know when the stuff comes into the mill that it is GMO. I guess the
strategy is to just go ahead with this genetic experiment and foist the
results on people whether like it or not, whether they know or not.

On 2014-11-09 2:37 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2014-11-09, graham > wrote:
>
>> But when it says "Product of China" what are we to believe?
>
> Believe it's from China.
>
> US lobbyists, long ago, made it legal for Chinese companies to set up
> mfg sites on American protectorates (Wake Is., American Samoa, etc),
> hire Chinese or Indian labor, and still label the finished product as
> "made in America".
>
>

I think a lot of people would be surprised to realize that stuff does
not have to be 100% natural to be labelled 100% natural.

On 09/11/2014 1:27 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:04:46 -0700, graham > wrote:
>
>> On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the head's up! I look to see where fish, shellfish, fresh
>>> fruit and vegetables originate, never thought about looking to see
>>> where my frozen vegetables came from. My Trader Joe's frozen spinach
>>> is a product of Mexico, TJ's petite peas and fire roasted corn are
>>> products of the USA.
>>>
>>> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
>>> look for it.
>>
>> One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
>> barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
>> "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
>> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
>> Graham
>
> Was it a package within a package?
>
>
Yes! But when I checked the outer one, the product of Vietnam was hidden
under a fold (factory produced).
I should have been more careful!
Graham

On 2014-11-09 3:04 PM, graham wrote:
> On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg
>>> and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?!
>>> Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of
>>> origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.

Some Green Giant products are also from China these says.

>> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
>> look for it.
>
> One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
> barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
> "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!

Like Europe's Best frozen foods. You look at the package and assume it
is European. Then it turns out to be from China.

Bruce wrote:
>
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:34:24 -0800, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:40:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> sf wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 12:43:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > sf wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:25:05 -0500, "Pete C." >
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > sf wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:01:31 -0500, "Pete C." >
> >> > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > sf wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 20:05:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > sf wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> >> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> >> > > > > > > > > > > avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> >> > > > > > > > > > > and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > costs on the things they do buy.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > That's a false argument for those who grow their own.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Spent much time in CO? I didn't think so. I have and most everyone has a
> >> > > > > > > > > greenhouse and grows some of their own food. There are also a number of
> >> > > > > > > > > local organic co-op type operations.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > They have no reason not to object.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Er, exactly though I don't think that's what you intended to write.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > You're right.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Colorado isn't just wide open spaces filled with animals and home
> >> > > > > > gardens and the group of people you mentioned have zero reason to
> >> > > > > > object to a labeling law.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > No, there is the stoner dung heap known as Denver, and the PYV dung heap
> >> > > > > of Breckenridge.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> >> > > > > folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> >> > > > > object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> >> > > > > products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> >> > > > > a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Rising prices are a fact of life and people are willing to pony up the
> >> > > > money.
> >> > >
> >> > > For inflation yes (really devaluation of the dollar), for increased
> >> > > costs associated with a law to humor a tiny minority of the population
> >> > > they don't agree with, no.
> >> >
> >> > Again, why do you or any of your grow your owners care when it doesn't
> >> > affect you?
> >>
> >> I and most other "grow your owners" buy things like flour, sugar,
> >> spices, oils and other things that are not particularly practical to
> >> produce yourself in small scale. We most certainly object to a law to
> >> humor a tiny minority that would increase our costs on the items we buy
> >> notably.
> >
> >Why is it so hard to keep gmo grains away from non-gmo? Monsanto
> >should have thought it through better.
>
> Don't they have to keep them separated anyway, whether they label or
> not?

Absolutely not. A company producing say bread, particularly the frozen
ready to bake stuff that is baked at most supermarkets just needs to
stock wheat flour and can readily fill up their silos from whatever
supplier they happen to buy from each month. If they had to do GMO
labeling they would have to do DNA testing on every delivery of flour,
while the truck waited before they could fill their silos. If they were
smaller and bough in 50# bags they would have to verify every bag before
they could use it. That's just the flour, try any more complex product
and realize the the same would have to be done for every ingredient.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2014-11-09 11:25 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> > folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> > object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> > products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> > a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.
> >
>
> It sounds more like the expense you fear is actually segregating the GMO
> from the non-GMO. Since so many products now contain GMO all they need
> to do is to slap a label on when there is GMO products, and they know
> know when the stuff comes into the mill that it is GMO. I guess the
> strategy is to just go ahead with this genetic experiment and foist the
> results on people whether like it or not, whether they know or not.

As they found with meat in the UK, you cannot rely on products to come
in properly labeled from your suppliers. The expense is every company
having to have an in house lab that can do DNA testing, and/or a
warehouse to store ingredients while waiting for results from an outside
lab.

graham wrote:
>
> On 09/11/2014 12:13 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > graham wrote:
> >>
> >> On 09/11/2014 11:41 AM, dalep wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive.
> >> I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be
> >> something that
> >> can actually be carried out.
> >>>
> >>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed
> >> the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice
> >> that many
> >> frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs
> >> don't seem
> >> to be labeled.
> >>>
> >>> DaleP
> >>>
> >> Country of origin is *very* important. Lots of frozen fish is labelled
> >> "Product of China" but in many cases it is our good ol' US and Canadian
> >> companies taking our fish to China for processing, thus depriving our
> >> fish-plant workers of employment.
> >
> > Much of that US wild caught, "processed in China" fish has never even
> > been remotely close to China in reality. China operates some rather
> > amazing processing ships so the catch is transferred to them in the
> > middle of the ocean, processed on the ship and then transferred to a
> > transport ship to market without ever coming near land.
>
> But when it says "Product of China" what are we to believe?

Product of China would originate from the polluted fish farms in China.
Processed in China would mean it may have been wild caught by ships from
some other country, but it was processed either in mainland China or on
a Chinese flagged vessel either way with Chinese standards and quality
control.

>
> >
> >> There is a well known "maker" of fruit juices in the Okanagan Valley, a
> >> major fruit growing area, that uses concentrates from China to make
> >> those little juice packs that are present in so many schoolkids' lunch
> >> boxes. One assumes that the product is Canadian or USian but the only
> >> local ingredient is the water.
> >> Graham
> >
> > Locate your plant, or even just your corporate mailing address in an
> > area known to produce item X and many people will assume you use local
> > X. Fortunately more and more people are paying attention to COO labeling
> > or lack thereof and adjusting their purchasing habits appropriately.
> > "Packaged in USA" and similar aren't fooling many people either.
> >
> The trouble is that COO labelling applies only to the major ingredient,
> in this case water!
> Graham

Yes, COO labeling needs better regulations, but it's a start.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2014-11-09 3:04 PM, graham wrote:
> > On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
> >> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg
> >>> and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?!
> >>> Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of
> >>> origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
>
> Some Green Giant products are also from China these says.
>
> >> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
> >> look for it.
> >
> > One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
> > barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
> > "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
> > opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
>

> Like Europe's Best frozen foods. You look at the package and assume it
> is European. Then it turns out to be from China.

It's still the best the folks in Europe get...

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2014-11-09 10:12 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Recall the meat scandal that rocked the UK and is still ongoing. If you
> > have to keep your processing plant GMO free does that mean you need to
> > build quarantine warehouses and DNA testing labs so you can verify that
> > the 50 tons of wheat flour the truck brought in doesn't contain any GMO
> > wheat varieties? Do you think this will not increase food costs
> > substantially?
> >
>
> It is not a disease. All they have to do is to put label on saying that
> it is or is not GMO.

Willful ignorance of how commercial food processing works does not
change the fact that that "simple label" requires large changes in
operations and a lot of additional overhead to implement.

On 2014-11-09 20:21, Pete C. wrote:

>>
>> It is not a disease. All they have to do is to put label on saying that
>> it is or is not GMO.
>
> Willful ignorance of how commercial food processing works does not
> change the fact that that "simple label" requires large changes in
> operations and a lot of additional overhead to implement.
>
Is it wilful ignorance to suggest that if they product they are
producing is made with ingredients that are from GMO seed could be
labelled as such? Companies that want to cater to people not wanting GMO
food can purchase their grains from non GMO sources and label it as such.

On 2014-11-09 20:10, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 2014-11-09 3:04 PM, graham wrote:
>>> On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg
>>>>> and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?!
>>>>> Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of
>>>>> origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
>>
>> Some Green Giant products are also from China these says.
>>
>>>> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
>>>> look for it.
>>>
>>> One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
>>> barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
>>> "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
>>> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
>>
>
>> Like Europe's Best frozen foods. You look at the package and assume it
>> is European. Then it turns out to be from China.
>
> It's still the best the folks in Europe get...
>

Is that a fact? I just bought some strawberries from California. Holy
crap they are bad.

On 2014-11-09 19:58, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Absolutely not. A company producing say bread, particularly the frozen
> ready to bake stuff that is baked at most supermarkets just needs to
> stock wheat flour and can readily fill up their silos from whatever
> supplier they happen to buy from each month. If they had to do GMO
> labeling they would have to do DNA testing on every delivery of flour,
> while the truck waited before they could fill their silos.

Pshaw... it would be incumbent upon the supplier to provide the
information. You are suggesting that it would cost a fortune in testing
at the manufacturer's level when the onus should be on the supplier. The
labelling requirement would go upstream to the suppliers.

If they were
> smaller and bough in 50# bags they would have to verify every bag before
> they could use it. That's just the flour, try any more complex product
> and realize the the same would have to be done for every ingredient.
>

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 19:58:39 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> Bruce wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:34:24 -0800, sf > wrote:
> >
> > >On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:40:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> sf wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Again, why do you or any of your grow your owners care when it doesn't
> > >> > affect you?
> > >>
> > >> I and most other "grow your owners" buy things like flour, sugar,
> > >> spices, oils and other things that are not particularly practical to
> > >> produce yourself in small scale. We most certainly object to a law to
> > >> humor a tiny minority that would increase our costs on the items we buy
> > >> notably.
> > >
> > >Why is it so hard to keep gmo grains away from non-gmo? Monsanto
> > >should have thought it through better.
> >
> > Don't they have to keep them separated anyway, whether they label or
> > not?
>
> Absolutely not. A company producing say bread, particularly the frozen
> ready to bake stuff that is baked at most supermarkets just needs to
> stock wheat flour and can readily fill up their silos from whatever
> supplier they happen to buy from each month. If they had to do GMO
> labeling they would have to do DNA testing on every delivery of flour,
> while the truck waited before they could fill their silos. If they were
> smaller and bough in 50# bags they would have to verify every bag before
> they could use it. That's just the flour, try any more complex product
> and realize the the same would have to be done for every ingredient.

The fact remains that your group of people don't care, in spite of
your false claim that they do care, because they grown their own.

It certainly would not kill them (or us) to label a product as
"contains GMO". I know word games are played on the nutrition label
when they pretend something in an amount of less than .5% doesn't
exist - but I want to see those items listed. Same deal with GMOs.
Give me honest information and let me decide.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:01:34 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > On 2014-11-09 11:25 AM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > > Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> > > folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> > > object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> > > products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> > > a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.
> > >
> >
> > It sounds more like the expense you fear is actually segregating the GMO
> > from the non-GMO. Since so many products now contain GMO all they need
> > to do is to slap a label on when there is GMO products, and they know
> > know when the stuff comes into the mill that it is GMO. I guess the
> > strategy is to just go ahead with this genetic experiment and foist the
> > results on people whether like it or not, whether they know or not.
>
> As they found with meat in the UK, you cannot rely on products to come
> in properly labeled from your suppliers. The expense is every company
> having to have an in house lab that can do DNA testing, and/or a
> warehouse to store ingredients while waiting for results from an outside
> lab.

Oh, gee. What a hardship to balance truth in labeling against pure
profit.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:42:46 -0700, graham > wrote:

> On 09/11/2014 1:27 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:04:46 -0700, graham > wrote:
> >
> >> On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the head's up! I look to see where fish, shellfish, fresh
> >>> fruit and vegetables originate, never thought about looking to see
> >>> where my frozen vegetables came from. My Trader Joe's frozen spinach
> >>> is a product of Mexico, TJ's petite peas and fire roasted corn are
> >>> products of the USA.
> >>>
> >>> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
> >>> look for it.
> >>
> >> One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
> >> barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
> >> "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
> >> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
> >> Graham
> >
> > Was it a package within a package?
> >
> >
> Yes! But when I checked the outer one, the product of Vietnam was hidden
> under a fold (factory produced).
> I should have been more careful!
> Graham

How could you be more careful? I'm clearly not understanding the way
it was packaged.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 16:26:17 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 2014-11-09 3:04 PM, graham wrote:
> > On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
> >> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg
> >>> and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?!
> >>> Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of
> >>> origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
>
> Some Green Giant products are also from China these says.
>
> >> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
> >> look for it.
> >
> > One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
> > barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
> > "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
> > opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
>
> Like Europe's Best frozen foods. You look at the package and assume it
> is European. Then it turns out to be from China.
>
I think Europe has a much worse problem with mislabeled food items and
counterfeited food in general (think: truffles and horsemeat labeled
as beef).


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:21:18 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
> Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > On 2014-11-09 10:12 AM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > > Recall the meat scandal that rocked the UK and is still ongoing. If you
> > > have to keep your processing plant GMO free does that mean you need to
> > > build quarantine warehouses and DNA testing labs so you can verify that
> > > the 50 tons of wheat flour the truck brought in doesn't contain any GMO
> > > wheat varieties? Do you think this will not increase food costs
> > > substantially?
> > >
> >
> > It is not a disease. All they have to do is to put label on saying that
> > it is or is not GMO.
>
> Willful ignorance of how commercial food processing works does not
> change the fact that that "simple label" requires large changes in
> operations and a lot of additional overhead to implement.

That's only a problem for those who don't want to disclose the
information.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 21:16:38 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 2014-11-09 20:21, Pete C. wrote:
>
> >>
> >> It is not a disease. All they have to do is to put label on saying that
> >> it is or is not GMO.
> >
> > Willful ignorance of how commercial food processing works does not
> > change the fact that that "simple label" requires large changes in
> > operations and a lot of additional overhead to implement.
> >
> Is it wilful ignorance to suggest that if they product they are
> producing is made with ingredients that are from GMO seed could be
> labelled as such? Companies that want to cater to people not wanting GMO
> food can purchase their grains from non GMO sources and label it as such.

Thank you.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 21:17:52 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 2014-11-09 20:10, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > Dave Smith wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2014-11-09 3:04 PM, graham wrote:
> >>> On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg
> >>>>> and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?!
> >>>>> Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of
> >>>>> origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
> >>
> >> Some Green Giant products are also from China these says.
> >>
> >>>> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
> >>>> look for it.
> >>>
> >>> One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
> >>> barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
> >>> "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
> >>> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
> >>
> >
> >> Like Europe's Best frozen foods. You look at the package and assume it
> >> is European. Then it turns out to be from China.
> >
> > It's still the best the folks in Europe get...
> >
>
> Is that a fact? I just bought some strawberries from California. Holy
> crap they are bad.

Buy an out of season fruit or vegetable and that's the chance you
take. I've purchased California, field grown, *winter* strawberries
in January and they were fabulous. I don't buy strawberries in
November.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:08:10 +1100, Bruce > wrote:

> Are they doing worse than the US because they have these problems or
> are they doing better because they find out about them?

Who knows?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2014-11-09 19:58, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > Absolutely not. A company producing say bread, particularly the frozen
> > ready to bake stuff that is baked at most supermarkets just needs to
> > stock wheat flour and can readily fill up their silos from whatever
> > supplier they happen to buy from each month. If they had to do GMO
> > labeling they would have to do DNA testing on every delivery of flour,
> > while the truck waited before they could fill their silos.
>
> Pshaw... it would be incumbent upon the supplier to provide the
> information. You are suggesting that it would cost a fortune in testing
> at the manufacturer's level when the onus should be on the supplier. The
> labelling requirement would go upstream to the suppliers.
>
> If they were
> > smaller and bough in 50# bags they would have to verify every bag before
> > they could use it. That's just the flour, try any more complex product
> > and realize the the same would have to be done for every ingredient.
> >

The horsemeat scandal in the UK and some other similar mislabeling
scandals such as one where barrels of "glycerin" sold to a drug company
were deliberately filled with a cheaper but similar looking substance
which ultimately killed quite a few people have shown that you can not
trust the labeling on the package.

While the responsibility might ultimately land on a company that
negligently or deliberately passed GMO flour off as non-GMO, the food
producer would still face huge losses, and thus would need to
validate/QC all ingredients in house.

Again, if you honestly look at the truth about what would be involved
with your "simple label", it's an undeniable fact that it is far more
than a "simple label" and would increase food prices a notable amount. I
have no interest in paying more for what I buy just to humor a tiny loud
mouth paranoid minority.

sf wrote:
>
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 19:58:39 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Bruce wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 11:34:24 -0800, sf > wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:40:35 -0500, "Pete C." >
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> sf wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Again, why do you or any of your grow your owners care when it doesn't
> > > >> > affect you?
> > > >>
> > > >> I and most other "grow your owners" buy things like flour, sugar,
> > > >> spices, oils and other things that are not particularly practical to
> > > >> produce yourself in small scale. We most certainly object to a law to
> > > >> humor a tiny minority that would increase our costs on the items we buy
> > > >> notably.
> > > >
> > > >Why is it so hard to keep gmo grains away from non-gmo? Monsanto
> > > >should have thought it through better.
> > >
> > > Don't they have to keep them separated anyway, whether they label or
> > > not?
> >
> > Absolutely not. A company producing say bread, particularly the frozen
> > ready to bake stuff that is baked at most supermarkets just needs to
> > stock wheat flour and can readily fill up their silos from whatever
> > supplier they happen to buy from each month. If they had to do GMO
> > labeling they would have to do DNA testing on every delivery of flour,
> > while the truck waited before they could fill their silos. If they were
> > smaller and bough in 50# bags they would have to verify every bag before
> > they could use it. That's just the flour, try any more complex product
> > and realize the the same would have to be done for every ingredient.
>
> The fact remains that your group of people don't care, in spite of
> your false claim that they do care, because they grown their own.
>
> It certainly would not kill them (or us) to label a product as
> "contains GMO". I know word games are played on the nutrition label
> when they pretend something in an amount of less than .5% doesn't
> exist - but I want to see those items listed. Same deal with GMOs.
> Give me honest information and let me decide.

If you want that "honest information", you can pay for it from producers
who voluntarily mark their products as GMO/non-GMO just as you can pay
more for "organic". Don't try to force a law on the rest of us to
increase our costs soothe your paranoia.

sf wrote:
>
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:01:34 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Dave Smith wrote:
> > >
> > > On 2014-11-09 11:25 AM, Pete C. wrote:
> > >
> > > > Most of CO is indeed wide open spaces and farms and ranches and rural
> > > > folks with greenhouses. The folks there do indeed have a reason to
> > > > object since such a labeling law will cost them more money for the
> > > > products they do buy. See my other posts for exactly why it isn't "just
> > > > a label" and there are real, substantial costs associated with it.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It sounds more like the expense you fear is actually segregating the GMO
> > > from the non-GMO. Since so many products now contain GMO all they need
> > > to do is to slap a label on when there is GMO products, and they know
> > > know when the stuff comes into the mill that it is GMO. I guess the
> > > strategy is to just go ahead with this genetic experiment and foist the
> > > results on people whether like it or not, whether they know or not.
> >
> > As they found with meat in the UK, you cannot rely on products to come
> > in properly labeled from your suppliers. The expense is every company
> > having to have an in house lab that can do DNA testing, and/or a
> > warehouse to store ingredients while waiting for results from an outside
> > lab.
>
> Oh, gee. What a hardship to balance truth in labeling against pure
> profit.

If you want to pay more for boutique labeled product, but it "organic"
or "non-GMO" you are free to do so and companies are free to provide
such labeling. Don't try to force a law on the rest of us that will
increase out food costs.