"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/di...anted=all&_r=0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, what did people do before fridges?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed. They also
>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>> have baked a casserole the night before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They also had pots over the fire continuously and added things as
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> got them.
>>>>>>> If that wasn't cooking in advance, what was it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Never mind. Don't bother to answer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And those things were kept hot! So not the same thing at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nonsense! As Lucretia pointed out, our grandparents put the food on a
>>>>> slate
>>>>> in the pantry and it stayed there until it was needed! I guess you
>>>>> didn't read the right books, or are you turning into a know it all
>>>>> now?
>>>>
>>>> Well, you're turning quite nasty!
>>>
>>> Do you think so? Why, because I question what you say?
>>>
>>> I am sorry you don't like that but what you are saying is just wrong.
>>> I
>>> and others have had that experience with our grandparents.
>>
>> Well, you may have. I did not have that experience at all.
>>>
>>> I don't claim to be an expert on
>>>> anything. I have no clue what a slate is and none of the books I read
>>>> where the pot was kept hot mentioned a pantry. The books that I read
>>>> said that a pot was kept simmering on the stove or over the fire. I
>>>> did
>>>> read books where a pantry was mentioned but there was no mention of
>>>> putting leftovers in it. I did see mention where a food that needed to
>>>> be kept cool and was purchased ahead of time was put in some certain
>>>> area to keep it cooler than it would be in the house.
>>>
>>> So what you are saying is, if it wasn't in those books it can't be true?
>>
>> *shakes head* I didn't say anything of the sort. But... While it is
>> interesting to me to know what they did in the old days, most of that has
>> no bearing on my life today. Especially when it comes to food and food
>> safety. We know a lot of things now that they didn't know back then.
>
> Fine, but just don't argue that it never happened. You don't always know
> best and as you can see, we did survive!

I wasn't. And I have no clue where you got that from. I just survived cat
scratch fever and last Spring I survived stepping on a nail. Doesn't mean
that either one was a good thing!

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 4:20:06 PM UTC-8, jmcquown wrote:
> On 12/24/2014 3:57 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:17:31 -0500, jmcquown >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/24/2014 5:30 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> >>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/di...anted=all&_r=0
> >>>
> >>> So, what did people do before fridges?
> >>>
> >> Many years ago I posted about a woman I worked with who grew up on her
> >> grandparents farm. At sunup it was time to make breakfast for the
> >> family. Immediately after breakfast (dishes and cooking pots washed) it
> >> was time to start lunch. Her example was fried chicken, potatoes,
> >> vegetables from the garden, more biscuits or fresh bread with butter.
> >> The guys didn't always come in from tending the livestock and the fields
> >> for a couple of hours. She said her grandmother just set the food on
> >> the table and covered it with a cloth. The food often sat there for a
> >> couple of hours before they finally sat down to eat. Amazing they survived.
> >
> > Honestly Jill, it would have been perfectly fine.
>
> Honestly, JeBus, I was agreeing with you. Of *course* no one got sick.
> People never used to rush hot food right into the refrigerator (or ice
> box, whatever). They weren't paranoid about it. Oh dear, 2 hours,
> chill it or throw it out! Nope.

Reminds me that the James Beard recipe for potato salad advises us
to slice and coat with vinaigrette the boiled potatoes after they are
cooked, then let cool to room temperature before being put in the
refrigerator, even though he said that method was disfavored these
days.

In the icebox days, putting hot food in the "fridge" would simply make
the block melt unnecessarily. Even after the switch to mechanical
refrigeration, people feared overworking the unit.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:36:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>I wasn't. And I have no clue where you got that from. I just survived cat
>scratch fever and last Spring I survived stepping on a nail. Doesn't mean
>that either one was a good thing!

'cat scratch fever'. What's next, LOL...
How can one person have so many problems most other people never get.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
>little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.

ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
"little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
information.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 19:19:59 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 12/24/2014 3:57 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:17:31 -0500, jmcquown >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/24/2014 5:30 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/di...anted=all&_r=0
>>>>
>>>> So, what did people do before fridges?
>>>>
>>> Many years ago I posted about a woman I worked with who grew up on her
>>> grandparents farm. At sunup it was time to make breakfast for the
>>> family. Immediately after breakfast (dishes and cooking pots washed) it
>>> was time to start lunch. Her example was fried chicken, potatoes,
>>> vegetables from the garden, more biscuits or fresh bread with butter.
>>> The guys didn't always come in from tending the livestock and the fields
>>> for a couple of hours. She said her grandmother just set the food on
>>> the table and covered it with a cloth. The food often sat there for a
>>> couple of hours before they finally sat down to eat. Amazing they survived.
>>
>> Honestly Jill, it would have been perfectly fine.
>
>Honestly, JeBus, I was agreeing with you. Of *course* no one got sick.
> People never used to rush hot food right into the refrigerator (or ice
>box, whatever). They weren't paranoid about it. Oh dear, 2 hours,
>chill it or throw it out! Nope.

Sorry, I thought you agreed with this 2 hour business.

>> As you said, nobody
>> got sick. Nothing amazing about that at all. Everyone here where I
>> live do things like that all the time. I do it all the time. Nobody
>> ever gets sick... ever. I'm sure we have the same bacteria here as
>> you do there
>>
>> Of course it's good to be mindful of hygiene etc, but
>> in my opinion this two hour business is excessively and needlessly
>> over the top, and as far as I know, you won't hear anything like that
>> from anyone outside the U.S.
>>
>I don't pay strict attention to those rules. My SO always wants to put
>anything leftover right into the fridge. What's the rush? Another few
>minutes won't matter.
>
>I *do* think the casserole left outside overnight (different thread)
>probably warranted throwing out. I don't know a thing about soy milk
>but where I live green beans aren't expensive. I'd have made another
>casserole rather than take the chance on the one that sat outside for 8
>hours or longer at around 13C.
>
>Jill

On 12/25/2014 1:59 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:36:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> I wasn't. And I have no clue where you got that from. I just survived cat
>> scratch fever and last Spring I survived stepping on a nail. Doesn't mean
>> that either one was a good thing!
>
> 'cat scratch fever'. What's next, LOL...
> How can one person have so many problems most other people never get.
>
I'm sure there are a few things she hasn't claimed yet. Lyme disease?
How about malaria?

The nail in foot thing I still do not understand. How could anyone not
realize they have a nail stuck in their foot? That tale didn't make a
lick of sense. How do you not know there's a nail in your foot until it
becomes practically necrotic? Especially when you're a diabetic who
should be paying attention to things like that?

NONE of it makes any sense. Didn't then, doesn't now.

Jill

On 2014-12-25 2:02 PM, wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>
> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
> information.
>


In the good old days before we had electricity people had to go to
stores for refrigerated goods

;-)

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:39:16 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2014-12-25 2:02 PM, wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
>>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>>
>> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
>> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
>> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
>> information.
>>
>
>
>In the good old days before we had electricity people had to go to
>stores for refrigerated goods
>
>;-)

We have it so much easier these days thanks to George Washington
inventing electricity!

On 12/25/2014 2:02 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>
> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
> information.
>
>
Sounds to me like she's reading historical romance novels where the
kithen maid finds an excuse to go to town every day.

Jill

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 10:36:16 AM UTC-6, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>>
> >>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> >>>> ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> >>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> >>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> >>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/di...anted=all&_r=0
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> So, what did people do before fridges?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they
> >>>>>>>> had
> >>>>>>>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed. They also
> >>>>>>>> wouldn't
> >>>>>>>> have baked a casserole the night before.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> They also had pots over the fire continuously and added things as
> >>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>> got them.
> >>>>>>> If that wasn't cooking in advance, what was it?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Never mind. Don't bother to answer.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And those things were kept hot! So not the same thing at all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nonsense! As Lucretia pointed out, our grandparents put the food on a
> >>>>> slate
> >>>>> in the pantry and it stayed there until it was needed! I guess you
> >>>>> didn't read the right books, or are you turning into a know it all
> >>>>> now?
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, you're turning quite nasty!
> >>>
> >>> Do you think so? Why, because I question what you say?
> >>>
> >>> I am sorry you don't like that but what you are saying is just wrong.
> >>> I
> >>> and others have had that experience with our grandparents.
> >>
> >> Well, you may have. I did not have that experience at all.
> >>>
> >>> I don't claim to be an expert on
> >>>> anything. I have no clue what a slate is and none of the books I read
> >>>> where the pot was kept hot mentioned a pantry. The books that I read
> >>>> said that a pot was kept simmering on the stove or over the fire. I
> >>>> did
> >>>> read books where a pantry was mentioned but there was no mention of
> >>>> putting leftovers in it. I did see mention where a food that needed to
> >>>> be kept cool and was purchased ahead of time was put in some certain
> >>>> area to keep it cooler than it would be in the house.
> >>>
> >>> So what you are saying is, if it wasn't in those books it can't be true?
> >>
> >> *shakes head* I didn't say anything of the sort. But... While it is
> >> interesting to me to know what they did in the old days, most of that has
> >> no bearing on my life today. Especially when it comes to food and food
> >> safety. We know a lot of things now that they didn't know back then.
> >
> > Fine, but just don't argue that it never happened. You don't always know
> > best and as you can see, we did survive!
>
> I wasn't. And I have no clue where you got that from. I just survived cat
> scratch fever and last Spring I survived stepping on a nail. Doesn't mean
> that either one was a good thing!

That nail temporarily enhanced the overall intelligence of this NG.

--Bryan

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/25/2014 1:59 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:36:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn't. And I have no clue where you got that from. I just survived
>>> cat
>>> scratch fever and last Spring I survived stepping on a nail. Doesn't
>>> mean
>>> that either one was a good thing!
>>
>> 'cat scratch fever'. What's next, LOL...
>> How can one person have so many problems most other people never get.
>>
> I'm sure there are a few things she hasn't claimed yet. Lyme disease? How
> about malaria?
>
> The nail in foot thing I still do not understand. How could anyone not
> realize they have a nail stuck in their foot? That tale didn't make a
> lick of sense. How do you not know there's a nail in your foot until it
> becomes practically necrotic? Especially when you're a diabetic who
> should be paying attention to things like that?

Because I have diabetic neuropathy which is nerve damage. And what that
means is I can have either lack of pain or pain for no cause that I can see
because it is in the nerves of my foot. In this case I did have pain. And
kept running my hand into my boot trying to feel for something. Just
yesterday I couldn't put my boot on. Why? There was a little salt shaker
in there. Probably one of the cats put it in there. I have no clue. I
couldn't feel it with my foot. I just knew that my foot wouldn't go in.

In the case of the nail there was extreme pain but in running my hand over
the inside of the boot, I could feel nothing. I have told this story here
before. This can happen when a nail or pin is in the shoe. When you step
down you are exerting force which forces the sharp edge up through the
spongy sole. But your hand isn't exerting the same force.

So even though I felt pain, I dismissed it as neuropathy pain. Right now I
have extreme pain in my feet and lower legs because I haven't yet put my
compression on. Pain is something I have more often than not.

The nail in and of itself wasn't the problem. Yes, it did cause infection.
Nobody knows where that nail came from or what all it picked up before it
entered my foot. I was on antibiotics for that. The problem was the two
Drs. I hooked up with that did all sorts of sadistic things to my foot that
they likely should not have done. Their wrong doing caused me to have a
fungal infection that went systemic and that's what nearly killed me. And
no, I am not seeing those Drs. anymore. I am not one to put blind faith in
Drs. either but at the time, I couldn't drive and Angela didn't have her
license. I couldn't rely on my husband to drive me often because of his
work schedule and I didn't really have anyone else to take me which is why I
went there. It is only a few blocks from my house. Angela could take me
there if she needed to and it wasn't so far away that when I had to get a
ride from someone else, it would make me feel like I was imposing on them.
But going there was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made. Including
letting them operate. I still am not sure what they did there and nobody
else is either.
>
> NONE of it makes any sense. Didn't then, doesn't now.

And it probably never will to you. I can't help that.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/25/2014 2:02 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
>>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>>
>> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
>> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
>> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
>> information.
>>
>>
> Sounds to me like she's reading historical romance novels where the kithen
> maid finds an excuse to go to town every day.

Nope. I'm not into romance novels, historical or otherwise. I was reading
about the poor and how they ate. These were people who lived in tenement
buildings in the city such as NY. Some people kept chickens in the
basements or bottom floors of these places so people could get eggs or even
a whole chicken if they could afford it. Other places sold bread. Still
others had produce. In many cases, one didn't need to leave their house to
get food for the meal.

One book I read started out in Poland. That was a true story. The mother
in that story was able to feed her family by procuring rotting produce which
she trimmed and set in what should have been her front room. Instead she
turned that into a little store. Her neighbors bought the food from her.
So not only did she have the produce that they could eat, but a small amount
of money with which she could occasionally buy some meat or something to pad
out the meal.

Another thing mentioned in many of the books were the peddlers that went up
and down the streets. Many of these streets were very narrow because there
were no cars in those days. Sunday was the only day when they didn't peddle
so I presume people would have to make arrangements for that but most
anything a person needed could be bought without the person so much as
having to leave their house. Of course, this was again in the city. I
doubt that farm people had too many peddlers going by but I do know there
were some because my mom has mentioned them to me.

I much prefer reading true stories of people's lives to fiction. Some
fiction is nice. But most of it bores me.

On 12/25/2014 2:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 12/25/2014 2:02 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
>>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>>
>> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
>> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
>> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
>> information.
>>
>>
> Sounds to me like she's reading historical romance novels where the
> kithen maid finds an excuse to go to town every day.
>
> Jill

There is some truth to that in the city. My grandmother wled just over
a block to the bakery for bread, stopping at the meat store on the way
home. A small grocery store was next door. It was common for the store
to sell "on the book" and settle up at the end of the week.

There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
that in the 1950's.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>There is some truth to that in the city. My grandmother wled just over
>a block to the bakery for bread, stopping at the meat store on the way
>home. A small grocery store was next door. It was common for the store
>to sell "on the book" and settle up at the end of the week.
>
>There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
>clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
>popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
>that in the 1950's.

Living in Brooklyn my mother shopped every day, everything was no more
than a two block walk away... the closest she ever came to driving was
having one of those wire shopping carts. Also peddlers came down the
streets all day with horse drawn wagons selling everything; produce,
seafood, clothing, sharpened knives while you wait, even repaired
shoes. In the '40s-'50s hardly anyone in NYC owned a car, daytime
after the men went to work you could look down any street and maybe
see two parked cars... empty streets were kid's playgrounds. Probably
98% of women were homemakers, they knew everyone on the block, kids
were safe on the streets, hawk eyes looking out every window and
dozens of women on stoops yentering while watching everyones business,
was a far safer world... a stray cat couldn't slink down the street
unnoticed, and they were all fed and had a basement to live in. Were
the ignorant Euros not so stupidstitious regarding cats there would
have been no bubonic plague... but disease serves a good purpose,
there are way, WAY too many on this planet... that's really the ONLY
global problem, over population... people simply can't keep their
crotches apart... the real answer to all human problems is oral sex.

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 6:41:20 PM UTC-8, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/25/2014 2:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> > On 12/25/2014 2:02 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> >> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
> >>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
> >>
> >> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
> >> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
> >> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
> >> information.
> >>
> >>
> > Sounds to me like she's reading historical romance novels where the
> > kithen maid finds an excuse to go to town every day.
> >
> > Jill
>
> There is some truth to that in the city. My grandmother wled just over
> a block to the bakery for bread, stopping at the meat store on the way
> home. A small grocery store was next door. It was common for the store
> to sell "on the book" and settle up at the end of the week.
>
> There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
> clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
> popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
> that in the 1950's.

Reference to an R L Polk directory will show perhaps hundreds of grocery
stores in cities like Chicago in the 1920s. A friend's wife recalls
horse-drawn carts carrying all manner of things down the alleys of
her Chicago neighborhood as late as 1954. And, my FIL as a young man
helped a produce peddler in the 1930s -- they would go to Eastern
Market in the morning, load up the wagon, and go down the streets of
a particular neighborhood, until all their wares were sold to the
housewives.

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 8:41:20 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
> >>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>
>
> There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
> clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
> popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
> that in the 1950's.
>
>
Yes, there my be a bit of truth in what she says IF the person lived in town. But my grandparents lived in the country. The only trips they made to the store was for flour, sugar, salt, and coffee. Dinner was cooked and what was not consumed was placed at the end of the table and covered with a clean cloth and that was supper. Fresh milk, cream, and butter was placed in a spring to be kept cool. Most all their vegetables were home canned.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/25/2014 2:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 12/25/2014 2:02 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
>>>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>>>
>>> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
>>> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
>>> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
>>> information.
>>>
>>>
>> Sounds to me like she's reading historical romance novels where the
>> kithen maid finds an excuse to go to town every day.
>>
>> Jill
>
> There is some truth to that in the city. My grandmother wled just over a
> block to the bakery for bread, stopping at the meat store on the way home.
> A small grocery store was next door. It was common for the store to sell
> "on the book" and settle up at the end of the week.
>
> There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
> clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The popularity
> of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of that in the
> 1950's.

Yes! Thank you!

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>There is some truth to that in the city. My grandmother wled just over
>>a block to the bakery for bread, stopping at the meat store on the way
>>home. A small grocery store was next door. It was common for the store
>>to sell "on the book" and settle up at the end of the week.
>>
>>There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
>>clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
>>popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
>>that in the 1950's.
>
> Living in Brooklyn my mother shopped every day, everything was no more
> than a two block walk away... the closest she ever came to driving was
> having one of those wire shopping carts. Also peddlers came down the
> streets all day with horse drawn wagons selling everything; produce,
> seafood, clothing, sharpened knives while you wait, even repaired
> shoes. In the '40s-'50s hardly anyone in NYC owned a car, daytime
> after the men went to work you could look down any street and maybe
> see two parked cars... empty streets were kid's playgrounds. Probably
> 98% of women were homemakers, they knew everyone on the block, kids
> were safe on the streets, hawk eyes looking out every window and
> dozens of women on stoops yentering while watching everyones business,
> was a far safer world... a stray cat couldn't slink down the street
> unnoticed, and they were all fed and had a basement to live in. Were
> the ignorant Euros not so stupidstitious regarding cats there would
> have been no bubonic plague... but disease serves a good purpose,
> there are way, WAY too many on this planet... that's really the ONLY
> global problem, over population... people simply can't keep their
> crotches apart... the real answer to all human problems is oral sex.

I was with you here until you veered into the sex talk.

> wrote in message
...
On Thursday, December 25, 2014 6:41:20 PM UTC-8, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/25/2014 2:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> > On 12/25/2014 2:02 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> >> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
> >>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
> >>
> >> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
> >> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
> >> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
> >> information.
> >>
> >>
> > Sounds to me like she's reading historical romance novels where the
> > kithen maid finds an excuse to go to town every day.
> >
> > Jill
>
> There is some truth to that in the city. My grandmother wled just over
> a block to the bakery for bread, stopping at the meat store on the way
> home. A small grocery store was next door. It was common for the store
> to sell "on the book" and settle up at the end of the week.
>
> There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
> clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
> popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
> that in the 1950's.

Reference to an R L Polk directory will show perhaps hundreds of grocery
stores in cities like Chicago in the 1920s. A friend's wife recalls
horse-drawn carts carrying all manner of things down the alleys of
her Chicago neighborhood as late as 1954. And, my FIL as a young man
helped a produce peddler in the 1930s -- they would go to Eastern
Market in the morning, load up the wagon, and go down the streets of
a particular neighborhood, until all their wares were sold to the
housewives.

---

Thank you! I don't know why people think I am making this stuff up!

> wrote in message
...
On Thursday, December 25, 2014 8:41:20 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
> >>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>
>
> There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
> clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
> popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
> that in the 1950's.
>
>
Yes, there my be a bit of truth in what she says IF the person lived in
town. But my grandparents lived in the country. The only trips they made to
the store was for flour, sugar, salt, and coffee. Dinner was cooked and
what was not consumed was placed at the end of the table and covered with a
clean cloth and that was supper. Fresh milk, cream, and butter was placed
in a spring to be kept cool. Most all their vegetables were home canned.

And that's what I said. But there were peddlers even out in the country.
Not nearly as many as in the cities but there were some.

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 6:21:54 AM UTC-6, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/di...anted=all&_r=0
> >
> > So, what did people do before fridges?
>
> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed. They also wouldn't
> have baked a casserole the night before.
>

Yes, no one lived on farms or little villages back in the old days. You are stunning in your idiocy.

> My parents didn't have refrigerators when they were young but they did have
> ice boxes. Those were mostly used for things like milk.

You don't have any parents, you were hatched in a test tube.

> wrote in message
...
> On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 6:21:54 AM UTC-6, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> >
>> > "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/di...anted=all&_r=0
>> >
>> > So, what did people do before fridges?
>>
>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed. They also wouldn't
>> have baked a casserole the night before.
>>
>
> Yes, no one lived on farms or little villages back in the old days. You
> are stunning in your idiocy.
>
You snippped out the part where I said that was the case if they lived in
the city.

>> My parents didn't have refrigerators when they were young but they did
>> have
>> ice boxes. Those were mostly used for things like milk.
>
> You don't have any parents, you were hatched in a test tube.

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 11:59:13 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> On Thursday, December 25, 2014 6:41:20 PM UTC-8, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 12/25/2014 2:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> > > On 12/25/2014 2:02 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > >> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
> > >>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
> > >>
> > >> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
> > >> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
> > >> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
> > >> information.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Sounds to me like she's reading historical romance novels where the
> > > kithen maid finds an excuse to go to town every day.
> > >
> > > Jill
> >
> > There is some truth to that in the city. My grandmother wled just over
> > a block to the bakery for bread, stopping at the meat store on the way
> > home. A small grocery store was next door. It was common for the store
> > to sell "on the book" and settle up at the end of the week.
> >
> > There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
> > clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
> > popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
> > that in the 1950's.
>
> Reference to an R L Polk directory will show perhaps hundreds of grocery
> stores in cities like Chicago in the 1920s. A friend's wife recalls
> horse-drawn carts carrying all manner of things down the alleys of
> her Chicago neighborhood as late as 1954. And, my FIL as a young man
> helped a produce peddler in the 1930s -- they would go to Eastern
> Market in the morning, load up the wagon, and go down the streets of
> a particular neighborhood, until all their wares were sold to the
> housewives.
>
> ---
>
> Thank you! I don't know why people think I am making this stuff up!

Well Julie WE know that you are a "creative" writer...some of your creations are lulus for sure. Hard to tell if you really believe what you post or are yanking our collective chains for the reaction it engenders.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:35:20 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 12/25/2014 1:59 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:36:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn't. And I have no clue where you got that from. I just survived cat
>>> scratch fever and last Spring I survived stepping on a nail. Doesn't mean
>>> that either one was a good thing!
>>
>> 'cat scratch fever'. What's next, LOL...
>> How can one person have so many problems most other people never get.
>>
>I'm sure there are a few things she hasn't claimed yet. Lyme disease?
>How about malaria?

It's possible, it would only take one racoon who holidayed in Asia to
infect her whole area.

>The nail in foot thing I still do not understand. How could anyone not
>realize they have a nail stuck in their foot? That tale didn't make a
>lick of sense. How do you not know there's a nail in your foot until it
>becomes practically necrotic? Especially when you're a diabetic who
>should be paying attention to things like that?
>
>NONE of it makes any sense. Didn't then, doesn't now.

Yep.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 16:52:19 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

<snip>

>Just
>yesterday I couldn't put my boot on. Why? There was a little salt shaker
>in there. Probably one of the cats put it in there. I have no clue. I
>couldn't feel it with my foot. I just knew that my foot wouldn't go in.

Ahh... the old salt shaker in the boot phenomenon.
I hate it when that happens!

On 12/25/2014 11:00 PM, wrote:
> On Thursday, December 25, 2014 6:41:20 PM UTC-8, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 12/25/2014 2:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>> On 12/25/2014 2:02 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
>>>>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>>>>
>>>> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
>>>> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
>>>> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Sounds to me like she's reading historical romance novels where the
>>> kithen maid finds an excuse to go to town every day.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> There is some truth to that in the city. My grandmother wled just over
>> a block to the bakery for bread, stopping at the meat store on the way
>> home. A small grocery store was next door. It was common for the store
>> to sell "on the book" and settle up at the end of the week.
>>
>> There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
>> clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
>> popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
>> that in the 1950's.
>
> Reference to an R L Polk directory will show perhaps hundreds of grocery
> stores in cities like Chicago in the 1920s. A friend's wife recalls
> horse-drawn carts carrying all manner of things down the alleys of
> her Chicago neighborhood as late as 1954. And, my FIL as a young man
> helped a produce peddler in the 1930s -- they would go to Eastern
> Market in the morning, load up the wagon, and go down the streets of
> a particular neighborhood, until all their wares were sold to the
> housewives.
>
Yeah, but Chicago was a city. There were and still are plenty of people
who didn't live in a city with stores on every block within walking
distance.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/25/2014 11:00 PM, wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 25, 2014 6:41:20 PM UTC-8, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 12/25/2014 2:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>> On 12/25/2014 2:02 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 04:21:40 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> ROTFL. So, basically you're saying that everyone everywhere had
>>>>> "little shops nearby" and could buy things as they needed them. Thanks
>>>>> for that, I might not have ever gotten around to reading that
>>>>> information.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Sounds to me like she's reading historical romance novels where the
>>>> kithen maid finds an excuse to go to town every day.
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>
>>> There is some truth to that in the city. My grandmother wled just over
>>> a block to the bakery for bread, stopping at the meat store on the way
>>> home. A small grocery store was next door. It was common for the store
>>> to sell "on the book" and settle up at the end of the week.
>>>
>>> There were many small stores every couple of blocks. Grocery, variety,
>>> clothing, etc. Everything you needed in walking distance. The
>>> popularity of the automobile and supermarkets started to change all of
>>> that in the 1950's.
>>
>> Reference to an R L Polk directory will show perhaps hundreds of grocery
>> stores in cities like Chicago in the 1920s. A friend's wife recalls
>> horse-drawn carts carrying all manner of things down the alleys of
>> her Chicago neighborhood as late as 1954. And, my FIL as a young man
>> helped a produce peddler in the 1930s -- they would go to Eastern
>> Market in the morning, load up the wagon, and go down the streets of
>> a particular neighborhood, until all their wares were sold to the
>> housewives.
>>
> Yeah, but Chicago was a city. There were and still are plenty of people
> who didn't live in a city with stores on every block within walking
> distance.

And I *said* that was in the city!!!! I would also venture to guess that in
the old days more people lived in cities than not but I could be wrong on
that. Why do I say this? That would be where most of the jobs were. Sure
when they put in railroads and things like that, that created jobs.
Sometimes only the men went along. Sometimes families. But in the case of
the railroad, I think they made sure that food was available. Might have
been from the company store. Not sure.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 16:49:57 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>> Yeah, but Chicago was a city. There were and still are plenty of people
>> who didn't live in a city with stores on every block within walking
>> distance.
>
>And I *said* that was in the city!!!! I would also venture to guess that in
>the old days more people lived in cities than not but I could be wrong on
>that. Why do I say this? That would be where most of the jobs were.

Wow. Just wow.

>Sure
>when they put in railroads and things like that, that created jobs.
>Sometimes only the men went along. Sometimes families. But in the case of
>the railroad, I think they made sure that food was available. Might have
>been from the company store. Not sure.

The implication here being that humans never existed before
industrialisation... brilliant.

On Friday, December 26, 2014 2:04:46 AM UTC-6, Julie Bove wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 6:21:54 AM UTC-6, Julie Bove wrote:
> >> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/di...anted=all&_r=0
> >> >
> >> > So, what did people do before fridges?
> >>
> >> Well, I wasn't alive in those days but from what I have read, they had
> >> little shops nearby and they bought things as needed. They also wouldn't
> >> have baked a casserole the night before.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, no one lived on farms or little villages back in the old days. You
> > are stunning in your idiocy.
> >
> You snippped out the part where I said that was the case if they lived in
> the city.

I did not snip anything, you freakin' loon.

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 1:29:00 PM UTC-6, Je�us wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 16:49:57 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
> >"jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Yeah, but Chicago was a city. There were and still are plenty of people
> >> who didn't live in a city with stores on every block within walking
> >> distance.
> >
> >And I *said* that was in the city!!!! I would also venture to guess that in
> >the old days more people lived in cities than not but I could be wrong on
> >that. Why do I say this? That would be where most of the jobs were.
>
> Wow. Just wow.

To the third power: Wow.

>
> >Sure
> >when they put in railroads and things like that, that created jobs.
> >Sometimes only the men went along. Sometimes families. But in the case of
> >the railroad, I think they made sure that food was available. Might have
> >been from the company store. Not sure.
>
> The implication here being that humans never existed before
> industrialisation... brilliant.

Yes that was the point I was trying to bring home. Isn't this nutbag just priceless? Honestly, in years of reading Usenet I have NEVER seen anything like it.

"Miss Kitty" > wrote in message
...
On Saturday, December 27, 2014 1:29:00 PM UTC-6, Je�us wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 16:49:57 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
> >"jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Yeah, but Chicago was a city. There were and still are plenty of
> >> people
> >> who didn't live in a city with stores on every block within walking
> >> distance.
> >
> >And I *said* that was in the city!!!! I would also venture to guess that
> >in
> >the old days more people lived in cities than not but I could be wrong on
> >that. Why do I say this? That would be where most of the jobs were.
>
> Wow. Just wow.

To the third power: Wow.

>
> >Sure
> >when they put in railroads and things like that, that created jobs.
> >Sometimes only the men went along. Sometimes families. But in the case
> >of
> >the railroad, I think they made sure that food was available. Might have
> >been from the company store. Not sure.
>
> The implication here being that humans never existed before
> industrialisation... brilliant.

Yes that was the point I was trying to bring home. Isn't this nutbag just
priceless? Honestly, in years of reading Usenet I have NEVER seen anything
like it.

---

Of course they did. And were they making green bean casseroles?

Cha-ching!

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 14:45:08 -0800 (PST), Miss Kitty
> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 27, 2014 1:29:00 PM UTC-6, Je�us wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 16:49:57 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >"jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Yeah, but Chicago was a city. There were and still are plenty of people
>> >> who didn't live in a city with stores on every block within walking
>> >> distance.
>> >
>> >And I *said* that was in the city!!!! I would also venture to guess that in
>> >the old days more people lived in cities than not but I could be wrong on
>> >that. Why do I say this? That would be where most of the jobs were.
>>
>> Wow. Just wow.
>
>To the third power: Wow.
>
>>
>> >Sure
>> >when they put in railroads and things like that, that created jobs.
>> >Sometimes only the men went along. Sometimes families. But in the case of
>> >the railroad, I think they made sure that food was available. Might have
>> >been from the company store. Not sure.
>>
>> The implication here being that humans never existed before
>> industrialisation... brilliant.
>
>Yes that was the point I was trying to bring home. Isn't this nutbag just priceless? Honestly, in years of reading Usenet I have NEVER seen anything like it.

I can't say I've ever come across anyone else like her *anywhere*,
never mind Usenet.