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General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc. |
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If you read the Wegmans thread, you know I bough a piece of Wagyu strip
steak. It was a 5 ounce piece only about a half inch thick. Not much of a meal, but enough for an appetizer for two of us. I cooked t the way I like any good steak. Seasoned with s & p and seared in a very hot cast iron pan to rare. Let it rest. It was good. It was not great, it was not the best steak I ever had, though it was the most expensive by far. It was tender, but not the most tender we've ever had. It had good taste, but not so good to pay a premium. While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see a need to ever try it again, given the price. Dinner was a veal chop at 1/3 the price and enjoyed more. That I will do again. |
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On 1/22/2015 10:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> If you read the Wegmans thread, you know I bough a piece of Wagyu strip > steak. It was a 5 ounce piece only about a half inch thick. Not much of > a meal, but enough for an appetizer for two of us. > > I cooked t the way I like any good steak. Seasoned with s & p and > seared in a very hot cast iron pan to rare. Let it rest. > > It was good. It was not great, it was not the best steak I ever had, > though it was the most expensive by far. It was tender, but not the > most tender we've ever had. It had good taste, but not so good to pay a > premium. > > While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see > a need to ever try it again, given the price. Dinner was a veal chop at > 1/3 the price and enjoyed more. That I will do again. When I lived in central PA, Wagyu burgers were common, even at "family" restaurants. I tried one once, and it was nothing special. Of course, I had no way of knowing if it was really Wagyu, or just labeled as such so that they could charge two or three times the price of a regular burger. One feature of Wagyu that I have read about is that it is supposed to have much more intense marbling than regular beef. This is supposed to be one of the main reasons for tenderness and flavor. Was your steak notably more well marbled than regular beef? |
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:25:40 -0500, Travis McGee >
wrote: > >When I lived in central PA, Wagyu burgers were common, even at "family" >restaurants. I tried one once, and it was nothing special. Of course, I >had no way of knowing if it was really Wagyu, or just labeled as such so >that they could charge two or three times the price of a regular burger. > >One feature of Wagyu that I have read about is that it is supposed to >have much more intense marbling than regular beef. This is supposed to >be one of the main reasons for tenderness and flavor. Was your steak >notably more well marbled than regular beef? Yes, it was just like I've seen in photos, very pronounced ribbons of fat. If you had that much fat on a chuck roast and cooked it like a regular pot roast, I'd imaging you'd end up with little meat. Burgers sounds like a good by-product given the marbling. |
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 06:01:11 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:25:40 -0500, Travis McGee > > wrote: > > > > > > >When I lived in central PA, Wagyu burgers were common, even at "family" > >restaurants. I tried one once, and it was nothing special. Of course, I > >had no way of knowing if it was really Wagyu, or just labeled as such so > >that they could charge two or three times the price of a regular burger. > > > >One feature of Wagyu that I have read about is that it is supposed to > >have much more intense marbling than regular beef. This is supposed to > >be one of the main reasons for tenderness and flavor. Was your steak > >notably more well marbled than regular beef? > > Yes, it was just like I've seen in photos, very pronounced ribbons of > fat. If you had that much fat on a chuck roast and cooked it like a > regular pot roast, I'd imaging you'd end up with little meat. Burgers > sounds like a good by-product given the marbling. I wouldn't want that much fat in my burger. 20% is more than enough for me, I usually go for a leaner grind because I don't want grease dripping down my arms while I'm eating my burger. -- A kitchen without a cook is just a room |
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On 1/22/2015 5:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> If you read the Wegmans thread, you know I bough a piece of Wagyu strip > steak. It was a 5 ounce piece only about a half inch thick. Not much of > a meal, but enough for an appetizer for two of us. > > I cooked t the way I like any good steak. Seasoned with s & p and > seared in a very hot cast iron pan to rare. Let it rest. > > It was good. It was not great, it was not the best steak I ever had, > though it was the most expensive by far. It was tender, but not the > most tender we've ever had. It had good taste, but not so good to pay a > premium. > > While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see > a need to ever try it again, given the price. Dinner was a veal chop at > 1/3 the price and enjoyed more. That I will do again. My guess is that you could go to Costco and get meat as good as you'll get anywhere. I don't get meat there but it's some well marbled, stuff. It's meat that's actually pretty. :-) |
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 09:13:35 -1000, dsi1
> wrote: >On 1/22/2015 5:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >> If you read the Wegmans thread, you know I bough a piece of Wagyu strip >> steak. It was a 5 ounce piece only about a half inch thick. Not much of >> a meal, but enough for an appetizer for two of us. >> >> I cooked t the way I like any good steak. Seasoned with s & p and >> seared in a very hot cast iron pan to rare. Let it rest. >> >> It was good. It was not great, it was not the best steak I ever had, >> though it was the most expensive by far. It was tender, but not the >> most tender we've ever had. It had good taste, but not so good to pay a >> premium. >> >> While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see >> a need to ever try it again, given the price. Dinner was a veal chop at >> 1/3 the price and enjoyed more. That I will do again. > >My guess is that you could go to Costco and get meat as good as you'll >get anywhere. I can buy better beef at my neighberhood market at far, FAR less cost... I know how to grade beef with my own eyes. No way I'd have been suckered into to buying some fercocktah furin named beef at a price at least five times it's worth, only an utter fool would... and then the schmucks are tawkin' grinding it for burgers... I don't even want to go there. I'm convinced this Wedgie Market is a total fraud, it exists ONLY for those with a need to boast how they have money to waste. The care package I recently recieved from NYC was pretty good because the breads were from particular Brooklyn bakeries that have been in business over 100 years, the cold cuts; Di Lusso Genoa and Boar's Head turkey are good regardless, but the two pounds of cole slaw at $4.99/lb from Prestigious North Shore Farms was Dis-Gusting, $10 worth in the composter... I coulda made two pounds of excellent slaw for a buck. The little market here in town has wonderful USDA graded beef at very reasonable prices, I just finished a five pound top round roast that was cooked medium rare and was sublime... only $4.79/lb... also made some great sandwiches for two days and the last bit with a few baked spuds and a bunch of onions made a great hash... Penzeys new roasted garlic is excellent, I will always be keeping it in my larder. |
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In article >,
Ed Pawlowski > wrote: > If you read the Wegmans thread, you know I bough a piece of Wagyu strip > steak. It was a 5 ounce piece only about a half inch thick. Not much of > a meal, but enough for an appetizer for two of us. > > I cooked t the way I like any good steak. Seasoned with s & p and > seared in a very hot cast iron pan to rare. Let it rest. > > It was good. It was not great, it was not the best steak I ever had, > though it was the most expensive by far. It was tender, but not the > most tender we've ever had. It had good taste, but not so good to pay a > premium. > > While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see > a need to ever try it again, given the price. Dinner was a veal chop at > 1/3 the price and enjoyed more. That I will do again. I once tried a wagyu beef hamburger out of curiosity. I ordered it medium rare thinking I was playing it safe. I came to the counter quite rare. The patty was mushy with little flavor. Ground chuck would have been much, much better and it cost me $15. The accompanied fries were excellent though. D.M. |
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Boron Elgar wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 09:50:19 -0400, wrote: > > > On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 07:16:42 -0600, Sqwertz > > > wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 06:01:11 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: > > > > >>> Yes, it was just like I've seen in photos, very pronounced > ribbons of >>> fat. If you had that much fat on a chuck roast and > cooked it like a >>> regular pot roast, I'd imaging you'd end up with > little meat. Burgers >>> sounds like a good by-product given the > marbling. > > > > > > This is the brand I had: > > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/sqwertz...hotostream/lig > > > htbox/ > > > > > > It didin't look or taste any better than USDA Prime - if that. > > > They have one higher grade ("5-Star") that supposedly has about > > > 50% more marbling. > > > > > > -sw > > > > I see that is American Kobe Beef - so how are they raising it ? > > Individually the way the Japenese raise their Kobe beef ? If they > > are not raised tenderly and fed beer then really the whole concept > > of Kobe beef is missing ![]() > > The marbling in a piece of true, Japanese Kobe beef is striking. This > has not got it, nor does this company make any legal claim to its > being such. > > This is where caution and careful reading come into play. The brand > name this company uses is "American Kobe Beef." The USDA has no > standards for the term or do the appropriate regulators have one for > such a name brand, and so, really, that is all it is - a branding. > > Wagyu are just a type of cattle that marble up easier than many other > beef stock animals. Here in the US, they are often interbred and so > likely differ from their Japanese origins. > > I think the way this particular beef is named is a money-grab, though > not an illegal one. > > Boron > > Good Japanese markets will have the real stuff. And similar to first > rate sashimi-grade fish, the costs will be through the roof. Yup! This reminds me of a long ago thread shortly after I came back from living in Japan where Sheldon was claiming most Kobe beef is from the USA and shipped to them. Fact is while Japan imports some beef, often USA and may be waygu related beef (pure or mixed cattle types), it's not marketed as Kobe there at all. USA Prime I think was the label for it but it's been years now since I was there to check a local market. -- |
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On 1/23/2015 12:52 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 09:13:35 -1000, dsi1 > > wrote: > >> On 1/22/2015 5:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >>> If you read the Wegmans thread, you know I bough a piece of Wagyu strip >>> steak. It was a 5 ounce piece only about a half inch thick. Not much of >>> a meal, but enough for an appetizer for two of us. >>> >>> I cooked t the way I like any good steak. Seasoned with s & p and >>> seared in a very hot cast iron pan to rare. Let it rest. >>> >>> It was good. It was not great, it was not the best steak I ever had, >>> though it was the most expensive by far. It was tender, but not the >>> most tender we've ever had. It had good taste, but not so good to pay a >>> premium. >>> >>> While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see >>> a need to ever try it again, given the price. Dinner was a veal chop at >>> 1/3 the price and enjoyed more. That I will do again. >> >> My guess is that you could go to Costco and get meat as good as you'll >> get anywhere. > > I can buy better beef at my neighberhood market at far, FAR less > cost... I know how to grade beef with my own eyes. No way I'd have > been suckered into to buying some fercocktah furin named beef at a > price at least five times it's worth, only an utter fool would... and > then the schmucks are tawkin' grinding it for burgers... I don't even > want to go there. I'm convinced this Wedgie Market is a total fraud, > it exists ONLY for those with a need to boast how they have money to > waste. The care package I recently recieved from NYC was pretty good > because the breads were from particular Brooklyn bakeries that have > been in business over 100 years, the cold cuts; Di Lusso Genoa and > Boar's Head turkey are good regardless, but the two pounds of cole > slaw at $4.99/lb from Prestigious North Shore Farms was Dis-Gusting, > $10 worth in the composter... I coulda made two pounds of excellent > slaw for a buck. The little market here in town has wonderful USDA > graded beef at very reasonable prices, I just finished a five pound > top round roast that was cooked medium rare and was sublime... only > $4.79/lb... also made some great sandwiches for two days and the last > bit with a few baked spuds and a bunch of onions made a great hash... > Penzeys new roasted garlic is excellent, I will always be keeping it > in my larder. > Sounds like you can get great meat for really low prices and have a super eye for grading meat. You also grind your own meat and get bread in the mail. I don't know about anybody else but I'm impressed! :-) |
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On 1/22/2015 10:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see > a need to ever try it again, given the price. Curiosity, okay. Now you know. I really have never understood the desire to buy (anything) just because someone slapped a label on it and set the price sky high. ![]() Jill |
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On 1/23/2015 5:52 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 09:13:35 -1000, dsi1 > > wrote: > >> On 1/22/2015 5:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >>> If you read the Wegmans thread, you know I bough a piece of Wagyu strip >>> steak. It was a 5 ounce piece only about a half inch thick. Not much of >>> a meal, but enough for an appetizer for two of us. >>> >>> I cooked t the way I like any good steak. Seasoned with s & p and >>> seared in a very hot cast iron pan to rare. Let it rest. >>> >>> It was good. It was not great, it was not the best steak I ever had, >>> though it was the most expensive by far. It was tender, but not the >>> most tender we've ever had. It had good taste, but not so good to pay a >>> premium. >>> >>> While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see >>> a need to ever try it again, given the price. Dinner was a veal chop at >>> 1/3 the price and enjoyed more. That I will do again. >> >> My guess is that you could go to Costco and get meat as good as you'll >> get anywhere. > > I can buy better beef at my neighberhood market at far, FAR less > cost... I know how to grade beef with my own eyes. Yep, because you grew up raising cattle in Brooklyn. ![]() > The little market here in town has wonderful USDA > graded beef at very reasonable prices, You don't mention the actual *grade*, I notice. All US beef is graded. > I just finished a five pound > top round roast that was cooked medium rare and was sublime... Enjoy it. I've never found top round roast to be anything but tough unless browned then braised. It's like round steak. > only > $4.79/lb... What, no $2.99/lb? > also made some great sandwiches for two days and the last > bit with a few baked spuds and a bunch of onions made a great hash... The beef hash I can believe and it sounds good. But wait, no pictures?! LOL Jill |
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Sqwertz wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 13:27:44 -0600, cshenk wrote: > > > This reminds me of a long ago thread shortly after I came back from > > living in Japan where Sheldon was claiming most Kobe beef is from > > the USA and shipped to them. > > I don't like to admit it, but he was right. There were several > articles I remember reading about the practice. > > > Fact is while Japan imports some beef, often USA and may be waygu > > related beef (pure or mixed cattle types), it's not marketed as Kobe > > there at all. USA Prime I think was the label for it but it's been > > years now since I was there to check a local market. > > Your fact is incorrect. From: http://www1.american.edu/ted/kobe.htm > > ... > Competition From America > > "In the recent past, American ranchers began to produce a version of > Kobe beef that is similarly high in quality, but somewhat lower in > price. American style Kobe beef comes from Wagyu cows that were bred > and raised in America . Usually, a rancher will import a few live > Wagyu cattle from Japan, and start a herd from there. A great deal of > the American Kobe-style beef is marketed in Japan, (where top grade > true Kobe beef sells for hundreds of dollars per pound) to those who > want high quality beef, but can not afford genuine Kobe beef (16). > > In order to remain competitive with the American ranchers in Japanese > markets, some Japanese ranchers began shipping young cattle to the > United States (where land and feed are less expensive and more > plentiful) to be raised, then importing the butchered meat, and > selling it as true Kobe beef. This meat could technically be sold as > true Kobe beef because it was produced in the Kobe region, and raised > according to the exacting standards set by the government and the > ranchers (16). However, since the cattle are actually raised in > America, it is questionable whether this beef should be considered > true Kobe beef. It is also questionable because the American-raised > cows do not receive the same feed, as they are given American grass > and grain rather than the more expensive Japanese feed." > > -sw Sorry but you are wrong. You can find *anything* on the internet if you search long enough and you found a student paper with no support behind it. There is a huge difference in Kobe and 'Kobe-style' that you are missing. You do know Waygu just pretty much meens 'beef/cattle' right? So american beef there might have a label of Waygu because that's like chiken is called Tori there so American chicken there would be called Tori... Do a bit more searching and you will see this one is totally debunked including the date of Japanese exports of types of cattle (of which the Kobe version are only 1 of some 4-6 versions of waygu they distinctly recognize). American beef when marketed in Japan in Sasebo area says 'wagyu' someplace normally and USA Prime. It does not say Kobe. Use a little common sense. At the cost of shippage and building a proper facility, as oppsosed to feed, they ship the feed to Japan for a hell of a lot less. -- |
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 13:13:16 -0600, Sqwertz >
wrote: >On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 09:17:15 -0500, Boron Elgar wrote: > >> Good Japanese markets will have the real stuff. And similar to first >> rate sashimi-grade fish, the costs will be through the roof. > >Up until recently Kobe beef was illegal here in the U.S. It's still >going to be the *extremely* rare Japanese market that carries Kobe >beef - most of it goes to very high-end restaurants. > >-sw I think Costco.com carried it this last Christmas. As you say, a very pricey gift. Janet US |
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On 1/24/2015 4:24 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 1/22/2015 10:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >> While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see >> a need to ever try it again, given the price. > > Curiosity, okay. Now you know. I really have never understood the > desire to buy (anything) just because someone slapped a label on it and > set the price sky high. ![]() > > Jill There is a limit. I'm willing to spend $20 to try the beef. Not wasted as I have an answer to my curiosity. I enjoy a bottle of $15 wine more that a $5 bottle, but I'm not willing to spend $75 to find out if I really like that even more. The law of diminishing returns. The price may double but the value goes up a mere percentage of that. |
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 21:00:28 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>On 1/24/2015 4:24 PM, jmcquown wrote: >> On 1/22/2015 10:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >>> While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see >>> a need to ever try it again, given the price. >> >> Curiosity, okay. Now you know. I really have never understood the >> desire to buy (anything) just because someone slapped a label on it and >> set the price sky high. ![]() >> >> Jill > >There is a limit. I'm willing to spend $20 to try the beef. Not wasted >as I have an answer to my curiosity. I enjoy a bottle of $15 wine more >that a $5 bottle, but I'm not willing to spend $75 to find out if I >really like that even more. > >The law of diminishing returns. The price may double but the value goes >up a mere percentage of that. Like doing fine with a 29¢ BIC but there's no other writing experience like signing my name with a Pelikan. http://i59.tinypic.com/10cte04.jpg |
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 20:11:37 -0600, Sqwertz >
wrote: >On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 17:47:51 -0700, Janet B wrote: > >> On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 13:13:16 -0600, Sqwertz > >> wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 09:17:15 -0500, Boron Elgar wrote: >>> >>>> Good Japanese markets will have the real stuff. And similar to first >>>> rate sashimi-grade fish, the costs will be through the roof. >>> >>>Up until recently Kobe beef was illegal here in the U.S. It's still >>>going to be the *extremely* rare Japanese market that carries Kobe >>>beef - most of it goes to very high-end restaurants. >>> >> I think Costco.com carried it this last Christmas. As you say, a very >> pricey gift. > >They're careful not to call it Kobe beef. > >http://www.costco.com/D%E2%80%99Arta...100082950.html > >Beef imports/exports to/from Japan have had various legal statuses >over the last 20 years due to foot-mouth, BSE, and for proprietary >reasons. > >Several old-time readers of this group will remember Tannith Tyrr's >well-documented exploits in trying to obtain one of the Kobe beef cows >that were being raised here in the U.S. for export to Japan - that was >back in mid-late 90's, IIRC. > >-sw At one time I think there were just two Wagyu operations in the U.S. -- one in Texas and one in Idaho. I think at that time that was the only way to get an approximation of the Kobe beef. Janet US |
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> If you read the Wegmans thread, you know I bough a piece of Wagyu strip > steak. It was a 5 ounce piece only about a half inch thick. Not much of > a meal, but enough for an appetizer for two of us. > > I cooked t the way I like any good steak. Seasoned with s & p and > seared in a very hot cast iron pan to rare. Let it rest. > > It was good. It was not great, it was not the best steak I ever had, > though it was the most expensive by far. It was tender, but not the > most tender we've ever had. It had good taste, but not so good to pay a > premium. > > While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see > a need to ever try it again, given the price. Dinner was a veal chop at > 1/3 the price and enjoyed more. That I will do again. I didn't read your other post. Which Wegman's did you go to? We just got one in Boston's western 'burbs (Burlington). Most of the commentary has not been ultra-positive, and there is some speculation that their stores usually don't have as much high-quality competition as the new one has here. |
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On 1/24/2015 3:24 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 1/22/2015 10:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >> While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see >> a need to ever try it again, given the price. > > Curiosity, okay. Now you know. I really have never understood the > desire to buy (anything) just because someone slapped a label on it > and set the price sky high. ![]() My brother bought some grass fed heritage beef - a few roasts, some steaks, some hamburger. He brought the steaks to the neighbor with great anticipation. After grilling, they were deeply disappointed, because the rare steaks were incredibly tough. He was afraid to even try the roasts after that, so I told him to pot roast one and grind the other into hamburger. Both the pot roast and hamburger came out very tasty - but not at all worth the premium price he paid. |
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On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 16:18:37 -0600, Moe DeLoughan >
wrote: >On 1/24/2015 3:24 PM, jmcquown wrote: >> On 1/22/2015 10:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >>> While a fun experiment, it did not meet my expectations and I don't see >>> a need to ever try it again, given the price. >> >> Curiosity, okay. Now you know. I really have never understood the >> desire to buy (anything) just because someone slapped a label on it >> and set the price sky high. ![]() > >My brother bought some grass fed heritage beef - a few roasts, some >steaks, some hamburger. He brought the steaks to the neighbor with >great anticipation. After grilling, they were deeply disappointed, >because the rare steaks were incredibly tough. He was afraid to even >try the roasts after that, so I told him to pot roast one and grind >the other into hamburger. Both the pot roast and hamburger came out >very tasty - but not at all worth the premium price he paid. Grass fed beef needs to be treated a little differently than conventional beef. http://www.homegrownmeats.com/grass-...-fed-beef-faqs or http://tinyurl.com/pza3ft2 From my suppliers website How do I prepare grass-fed beef? Our Homegrown grass-fed beef is significantly lower in fat than what you may be used to. To enjoy all the tender, rich flavor, you’ll have to pay a little extra attention when cooking. Here are a few simple steps to take: 1. Bring your meat to, or close to, room temperature. 2. Sear and brown the outside on high heat – not burned, but caramelized. 3. Turn down the heat to medium and finish cooking to the desired internal temperature. In general, the more rare, the better! (See the chart below.) 4. Use a meat thermometer to measure the internal temperature or cut into the meat to check its doneness. 5. The final crucial step is to remove the meat from the heat and let it rest for 5-15 minutes. Cover your meat with aluminum foil – loosely for rare and tightly for a little more done. 6. Enjoy your Homegrown grass-fed, flavorful, healthy beef. And we’ll see you again real soon. We’re sure of it. Internal Temperature Table Remove from heat/Ideal temperature after resting/USDA recommendation Rare -- 120º-130º/125º-130º/140º Medium-Rare -- 130º-135º/130º-140º/150º Medium -- 135º-150º/140º-150º/160º Medium-Well -- 150º-165º/155º-165º/170º (not recommended) koko -- Food is our common ground, a universal experience James Beard |
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