Now you can taste a sample of wine with no alcohol.
http://tinyurl.com/pumm353

Beringer created a shelf-mounted merchandising fixture called the
Taste Station.

The self-serve display dispenses flavor strips wrapped individually in
flexible packaging. Each Taste Station holds a stack of the flat,
rectangular foil pouches and dispenses them one at a time. Beringer
currently is testing the concept in Kroger stores in 20 states.

On 2015-04-13, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Now you can taste a sample of wine with no alcohol.
> http://tinyurl.com/pumm353

One would want to do this, why?

> flexible packaging. Each Taste Station holds a stack of the flat,
> rectangular foil pouches and dispenses them one at a time. Beringer
> currently is testing the concept in Kroger stores in 20 states.

I foolishly believed the display dispensed foil pkts of real wine,
perhaps an ounce. Silly me.

Have you ever tasted Beringer wine? No doubt plastic flavor strips,
fulla some kinda synthetic chemicals, other than a true, living,
breathing, liquid, are probably a step up from what Beringer actually
puts in their bottles. Besides, not sure I'd drink anything sullied
by Nestlé.

nb

On 13/04/2015 11:08 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Now you can taste a sample of wine with no alcohol.
> http://tinyurl.com/pumm353
>
> Beringer created a shelf-mounted merchandising fixture called the
> Taste Station.
>
> The self-serve display dispenses flavor strips wrapped individually in
> flexible packaging. Each Taste Station holds a stack of the flat,
> rectangular foil pouches and dispenses them one at a time. Beringer
> currently is testing the concept in Kroger stores in 20 states.

I visited a store in New Zealand where they had multiple-bottle tasting
stations that dispensed a 1,2 or 5oz taste, using those fancy inert gas
dispensers. You just plugged in a sort of credit card and pressed the
appropriate button and the cost was recorded and you paid up at the end.
That meant that quite pricey wines could be tasted and there was no
obligation to buy.
Graham

--

On 4/13/2015 1:19 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2015-04-13, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> Now you can taste a sample of wine with no alcohol.
>> http://tinyurl.com/pumm353
>
> One would want to do this, why?

I can see it working in the mass market stores. Before you invest $15
in a five gallon box of wine you want to be sure you like it. There is
a lot of that stuff sold every day.


>
> Have you ever tasted Beringer wine? No doubt plastic flavor strips,
> fulla some kinda synthetic chemicals, other than a true, living,
> breathing, liquid, are probably a step up from what Beringer actually
> puts in their bottles. Besides, not sure I'd drink anything sullied
> by Nestlé.
>
> nb
>

Yeah, I'd take the strip over a glass of the real stuff too.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:39:46 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:08:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Now you can taste a sample of wine with no alcohol.
>> http://tinyurl.com/pumm353
>>
>> Beringer created a shelf-mounted merchandising fixture called the
>> Taste Station.
>>
>> The self-serve display dispenses flavor strips wrapped individually in
>> flexible packaging. Each Taste Station holds a stack of the flat,
>> rectangular foil pouches and dispenses them one at a time. Beringer
>> currently is testing the concept in Kroger stores in 20 states.
>
>I see people taking 5 or 10 of those at a time just because they're
>novel. They can't be cheap to produce either. At least $.06/ea. And
>are they really accurate representations of the wine?
>
>-sw

I'm sure they are NOT an accurate representation of the taste of the
wine. And Beringer's does make SOME very good wines, and a lot of not
so great ones.

John Kuthe...

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On 4/13/2015 2:48 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:39:46 -0500, Sqwertz >
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:08:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> Now you can taste a sample of wine with no alcohol.
>>> http://tinyurl.com/pumm353
>>>
>>> Beringer created a shelf-mounted merchandising fixture called the
>>> Taste Station.
>>>
>>> The self-serve display dispenses flavor strips wrapped individually in
>>> flexible packaging. Each Taste Station holds a stack of the flat,
>>> rectangular foil pouches and dispenses them one at a time. Beringer
>>> currently is testing the concept in Kroger stores in 20 states.
>>
>> I see people taking 5 or 10 of those at a time just because they're
>> novel. They can't be cheap to produce either. At least $.06/ea. And
>> are they really accurate representations of the wine?
>>
>> -sw
>
> I'm sure they are NOT an accurate representation of the taste of the
> wine. And Beringer's does make SOME very good wines, and a lot of not
> so great ones.
>
> John Kuthe...
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
I've seen kits to learn wine tasting that had little vials with the
various terms wine "experts" use like "petrol", "barnyard" etc. but they
were more expensive than I wanted. I'll have to look out for those
strips but there aren't any nearby Krogers. Incidentally, Beringer,
while not at the top, makes some decent winrs.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 2015-04-13 2:01 PM, graham wrote:

> I visited a store in New Zealand where they had multiple-bottle tasting
> stations that dispensed a 1,2 or 5oz taste, using those fancy inert gas
> dispensers. You just plugged in a sort of credit card and pressed the
> appropriate button and the cost was recorded and you paid up at the end.
> That meant that quite pricey wines could be tasted and there was no
> obligation to buy.


Wineries around here used to have free samples. As the wine business
grew, wine tasting became a destination activity, so most of the
wineries started charging. If you go in just to sample you pay for the
samples, but if you go in to buy in some reasonable quantity they end up
comping the samples. My brother works part time in one of the few local
wineries that does not charge for samples.


Ice wine is a major product here. At the end of my sampling and buying I
will gladly pay for a sample of ice wine. I love the stuff.... in small
doses. I am not paying $50 for a half bottle of wine and having just
and ounce or two. That little sample does me just fine.

On 13/04/2015 3:43 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-04-13 2:01 PM, graham wrote:
>
>> I visited a store in New Zealand where they had multiple-bottle tasting
>> stations that dispensed a 1,2 or 5oz taste, using those fancy inert gas
>> dispensers. You just plugged in a sort of credit card and pressed the
>> appropriate button and the cost was recorded and you paid up at the end.
>> That meant that quite pricey wines could be tasted and there was no
>> obligation to buy.
>
>
> Wineries around here used to have free samples. As the wine business
> grew, wine tasting became a destination activity, so most of the
> wineries started charging. If you go in just to sample you pay for the
> samples, but if you go in to buy in some reasonable quantity they end up
> comping the samples. My brother works part time in one of the few local
> wineries that does not charge for samples.
>
>
> Ice wine is a major product here. At the end of my sampling and buying I
> will gladly pay for a sample of ice wine. I love the stuff.... in small
> doses. I am not paying $50 for a half bottle of wine and having just
> and ounce or two. That little sample does me just fine.
>
>
On my trips to France, I've avoided the "Degustation et Vente" as one is
expected to buy after a tasting session and one never knows whether it's
worth it. Some of the bigger chateaux charge for a tour with a tasting
but you must book months in advance.
Graham

--

On 4/13/2015 11:43 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-04-13 2:01 PM, graham wrote:
>
>> I visited a store in New Zealand where they had multiple-bottle tasting
>> stations that dispensed a 1,2 or 5oz taste, using those fancy inert gas
>> dispensers. You just plugged in a sort of credit card and pressed the
>> appropriate button and the cost was recorded and you paid up at the end.
>> That meant that quite pricey wines could be tasted and there was no
>> obligation to buy.
>
>
> Wineries around here used to have free samples. As the wine business
> grew, wine tasting became a destination activity, so most of the
> wineries started charging. If you go in just to sample you pay for the
> samples, but if you go in to buy in some reasonable quantity they end up
> comping the samples. My brother works part time in one of the few local
> wineries that does not charge for samples.

Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
that your customers are scumbags and are not to be trusted.

>
>
> Ice wine is a major product here. At the end of my sampling and buying I
> will gladly pay for a sample of ice wine. I love the stuff.... in small
> doses. I am not paying $50 for a half bottle of wine and having just
> and ounce or two. That little sample does me just fine.
>
>

Forget about what I just said. :-)

On 2015-04-13 18:34, dsi1 wrote:

>> Wineries around here used to have free samples. As the wine business
>> grew, wine tasting became a destination activity, so most of the
>> wineries started charging. If you go in just to sample you pay for the
>> samples, but if you go in to buy in some reasonable quantity they end up
>> comping the samples. My brother works part time in one of the few local
>> wineries that does not charge for samples.
>
> Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
> that your customers are scumbags and are not to be truste

I can understand it. When the business was just getting off the ground
it was a good way to introduce their products. People would realize
that the wines were pretty good and buy some to take home. Barring that,
the might feel some moral obligation to spend money after getting all
the free samples. But then people started taking advantage going from
one winery to another just to get free samples. There were local bus
operators who were organizing wine tours, charging busloads of people to
go on wine tasting excursions. They were making money on the
transportation and the wineries were paying for all the wine.

On Monday, April 13, 2015 at 2:16:08 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-04-13 18:34, dsi1 wrote:
>
> >> Wineries around here used to have free samples. As the wine business
> >> grew, wine tasting became a destination activity, so most of the
> >> wineries started charging. If you go in just to sample you pay for the
> >> samples, but if you go in to buy in some reasonable quantity they end up
> >> comping the samples. My brother works part time in one of the few local
> >> wineries that does not charge for samples.
> >
> > Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
> > that your customers are scumbags and are not to be truste
>
> I can understand it. When the business was just getting off the ground
> it was a good way to introduce their products. People would realize
> that the wines were pretty good and buy some to take home. Barring that,
> the might feel some moral obligation to spend money after getting all
> the free samples. But then people started taking advantage going from
> one winery to another just to get free samples. There were local bus
> operators who were organizing wine tours, charging busloads of people to
> go on wine tasting excursions. They were making money on the
> transportation and the wineries were paying for all the wine.

That's just my personal view on this - you catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar, yadda, yadda, yadda. I still wouldn't charge someone who took the time and effort to drive over. OTOH, I'd sure ask for a piece of the action from tour bus companies.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:34:02 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:



>
>Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
>that your customers are scumbags and are not to be trusted.
>

The reason most charge now is many on the tasters are not customers,
just scumbags looking for a freebie.

Most places had some sort of a deal that when you buy, you get a
discount, rebate, or other compensation against what you paid. One
winery in particular that I've been to a couple of times charges a
modest fee for five different tastings. I've seen many people do the
tasting and walk out not spending a penny otherwise.

There is one vineyard I frequent that has a "Cellar Club" you can sign
up for once you buy something. You get tasting for two people on every
visit and you get a 15% discount every time you buy a case

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:36:58 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:



>
>That's just my personal view on this - you catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar, yadda, yadda, yadda. I still wouldn't charge someone who took the time and effort to drive over. OTOH, I'd sure ask for a piece of the action from tour bus companies.

How often do you go to the wineries? I'd bet if you had one, after
the first couple of weeks giving away freebies, you'd be doing
something to recoup your costs. You'd be catching plenty of flies,
but none that spends their money.

It is not just the half ounce of wine, it is also the time and the
glassware that has to be washed, maybe some nibbles on the counter
too. Fifteen years ago, hardly anyone charge, but there are more
leeches around now.

On 4/13/2015 5:19 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:34:02 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
>> that your customers are scumbags and are not to be trusted.
>>
>
> The reason most charge now is many on the tasters are not customers,
> just scumbags looking for a freebie.
>
> Most places had some sort of a deal that when you buy, you get a
> discount, rebate, or other compensation against what you paid. One
> winery in particular that I've been to a couple of times charges a
> modest fee for five different tastings. I've seen many people do the
> tasting and walk out not spending a penny otherwise.
>
> There is one vineyard I frequent that has a "Cellar Club" you can sign
> up for once you buy something. You get tasting for two people on every
> visit and you get a 15% discount every time you buy a case
>
All things being equal, I'm partial to businesses that don't consider me
to be a scumbag. Is this the wrong attitude?

On 4/13/2015 5:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:36:58 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> That's just my personal view on this - you catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar, yadda, yadda, yadda. I still wouldn't charge someone who took the time and effort to drive over. OTOH, I'd sure ask for a piece of the action from tour bus companies.
>
> How often do you go to the wineries? I'd bet if you had one, after
> the first couple of weeks giving away freebies, you'd be doing
> something to recoup your costs. You'd be catching plenty of flies,
> but none that spends their money.
>
> It is not just the half ounce of wine, it is also the time and the
> glassware that has to be washed, maybe some nibbles on the counter
> too. Fifteen years ago, hardly anyone charge, but there are more
> leeches around now.
>

My guess is that some companies consider all that to be the cost of
doing business.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:04:00 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>On 4/13/2015 5:19 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:34:02 -1000, dsi1
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
>>> that your customers are scumbags and are not to be trusted.
>>>
>>
>> The reason most charge now is many on the tasters are not customers,
>> just scumbags looking for a freebie.
>>
>> Most places had some sort of a deal that when you buy, you get a
>> discount, rebate, or other compensation against what you paid. One
>> winery in particular that I've been to a couple of times charges a
>> modest fee for five different tastings. I've seen many people do the
>> tasting and walk out not spending a penny otherwise.
>>
>> There is one vineyard I frequent that has a "Cellar Club" you can sign
>> up for once you buy something. You get tasting for two people on every
>> visit and you get a 15% discount every time you buy a case
>>
>All things being equal, I'm partial to businesses that don't consider me
>to be a scumbag. Is this the wrong attitude?

No, they don't consider the customers to be scumbags, they consider
the many freeloaders to be. They are not now and never will be a
customer. Again, how often do you go to vineyards for tastings? How
often have you observed what goes on? Easy to sit back on your throne
and say what a business should do if you've never experienced it.
Don't let real life get in the way of your perception.

On 2015-04-13 11:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> That's just my personal view on this - you catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar, yadda, yadda, yadda. I still wouldn't charge someone who took the time and effort to drive over. OTOH, I'd sure ask for a piece of the action from tour bus companies.
>
> How often do you go to the wineries? I'd bet if you had one, after
> the first couple of weeks giving away freebies, you'd be doing
> something to recoup your costs. You'd be catching plenty of flies,
> but none that spends their money.
>
> It is not just the half ounce of wine, it is also the time and the
> glassware that has to be washed, maybe some nibbles on the counter
> too. Fifteen years ago, hardly anyone charge, but there are more
> leeches around now.
>

That's basically the way things happened her in the Niagara area.
Serious wine drinkers would go to the tasting rooms and try a few
samples and buy some wine. After a number of years of that, wine
tasting became a recreational activity rather than part of the shopping
experience and there was no benefit to the winery.

OTOH, there are some tour groups who tend to come and buy, buy, buy and
don't sample. I don't know if you are familiar with the concept of he
Japanese tourists, but they tend to run on a very tightly timed
schedule. When they go to Niagara Falls, for instance, they get off the
bus at the various sites, snap a bunch of pictures and then scoot back
to the bus and they are off to the next 5 minute stop. They love ice
wine, and when they go the some of the Niagara on the Lake wineries
everybody runs in and buys a couple bottles of ice wine. There is no
time for samples. They get their wine and scoot back to the bus.

On 2015-04-14 1:10 AM, dsi1 wrote:

>> It is not just the half ounce of wine, it is also the time and the
>> glassware that has to be washed, maybe some nibbles on the counter
>> too. Fifteen years ago, hardly anyone charge, but there are more
>> leeches around now.
>>
>
> My guess is that some companies consider all that to be the cost of
> doing business.


Yes they do. The wineries did it for a long time. If you go to a
flooring store you can see small samples of tile or rug. It may be
difficult for some people to imagine what it will look like covering an
entire floor, but they simply cannot afford the time and space to have
entire rooms done in the colours and styles you are considering. When
it got to the point where people were coming around just to taste the
wines and the wineries realized that they were just free wine bars for
mooches they started charging. I don't do as much wine tasting as I used
to but, other than ice wine, I have not paid for samples in years. I go
out looking for certain types of wines, find the wines I like and buy a
anywhere from 6 bottles to 2 cases and have not been charged for the
samples.

dsi1 wrote:
>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>dsi1
>>dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>> Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
>>> that your customers are scumbags and are not to be trusted.
>>
>> The reason most charge now is many on the tasters are not customers,
>> just scumbags looking for a freebie.
>>
>> Most places had some sort of a deal that when you buy, you get a
>> discount, rebate, or other compensation against what you paid. One
>> winery in particular that I've been to a couple of times charges a
>> modest fee for five different tastings. I've seen many people do the
>> tasting and walk out not spending a penny otherwise.
>>
>> There is one vineyard I frequent that has a "Cellar Club" you can sign
>> up for once you buy something. You get tasting for two people on every
>> visit and you get a 15% discount every time you buy a case
>>
>All things being equal, I'm partial to businesses that don't consider me
>to be a scumbag. Is this the wrong attitude?

dsi1, you're altering the terminology - your terminology is incorrect,
they are not wine samplings, they are wine tastings... check the
Subject line... I've never seen wine "samplings" advertised. I
believe samples should be free with no strings otherwise they're not
samples. When the bakery places a tray of broken cookies on the
counter labeled "Samples" they hope people buy but if not business
goes on as broken cookies otherwise go into the trash, or made into
crumbs for decorating a cake. Wine "Tastings" do not imply free, wine
tastings are held with the explicit intent of introducing and selling
wines, they are not samples. If you attend wine tastings, pay a fee
or not, and don't buy then you are indeed a scumbag. Winerys learned
that charging a fee keeps the riff raff/scumbags away making for a
more enjoyable less crowded experience for those who buy... and those
who buy typically recoup the modest entry fee with the first case they
buy at discount... the fee is meant to encourage purchasing. I can't
imagine normal people who actually have a life wasting a day sipping
dribs of wine just because it's free when they don't intend to buy...
the scumbags would do themselves and everyone else a favor staying
home guzzling their favorite $3/liter box wine.

On 2015-04-14 9:19 AM, wrote:

>> The half wit is half right. It is called Eiswein in Germany because they
>> tend to speak German in that country. Canada has become on of the
>> leasing producers of ice wines thanks to our climate, and Niagara is the
>> primary region for it because we can pretty well guarantee the -10 C
>> required before picking before and that it will happen before the birds
>> eat all the grapes.
>>
>> The stuff is way to sweet for me to have any more than one small glass.
>> It can be incredible stuff with a wide range of intense flavours and
>> sensations. Running at $40-80 per half bottle,I not inclined to buy a
>> bottle and crack it open and then cork it for later. Instead, I just go
>> to one of the local wineries and pay $3-4 for a sample.
>>
>> If I get back to Germany I will be sure to remember to refer to it was
>> Eiswein which sounds a lot like the English ice wine but with a German
>> accent.
>
> The thing with an overly sweet wine, ice wine or sauterne, is what you
> serve it with. Sauterne served with a sweet caramel custard can
> actually taste quite nice. Can't say I really care for sweet wines
> though.


Have you ever tried icewine? It is a hell of a lot sweeter than
Sauterne. It is so sweet that it is almost syrupy. The stuff is
delicious, but way too sweet for me to have any more than a small glass
of it.

On 2015-04-14 9:24 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> dsi1, you're altering the terminology - your terminology is incorrect,
> they are not wine samplings, they are wine tastings... check the
> Subject line... I've never seen wine "samplings" advertised. I
> believe samples should be free with no strings otherwise they're not
> samples.

Curiously, most of thy local wineries refer to their retail areas as
sample rooms. However, their organized tours are tasting tours, and they
usually charge for them. They also provide fruit and cheese and crackers.




> When the bakery places a tray of broken cookies on the
> counter labeled "Samples" they hope people buy but if not business
> goes on as broken cookies otherwise go into the trash, or made into
> crumbs for decorating a cake. Wine "Tastings" do not imply free, wine
> tastings are held with the explicit intent of introducing and selling
> wines, they are not samples. If you attend wine tastings, pay a fee
> or not, and don't buy then you are indeed a scumbag. Winerys learned
> that charging a fee keeps the riff raff/scumbags away making for a
> more enjoyable less crowded experience for those who buy...

My father works in the sample room of a local winery and they have to
deal with that all the time. There is no charge but there are limits to
the number of samples people can have. Everyone has to have passed the
Smart Serve program to work there.

One of their issues is that the winery also has a wedding venue and many
of the wedding guests come early and hang out in the sample room getting
free wine. The owner is not particularly worried about the wedding
guests sucking back samples because wedding catering deal always
includes an open bar, so he figures that they are already paying for it,
and it is cheaper to feed them his own wine that the liquor and beer he
has to buy. The problem is that they take up space and waste the time
of my brother and his co-workers who are there to sell wine to the
paying customers.



and those
> who buy typically recoup the modest entry fee with the first case they
> buy at discount... the fee is meant to encourage purchasing. I can't
> imagine normal people who actually have a life wasting a day sipping
> dribs of wine just because it's free when they don't intend to buy...
> the scumbags would do themselves and everyone else a favor staying
> home guzzling their favorite $3/liter box wine.
>

On 2015-04-14, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Don't let real life get in the way of your perception.

Sheeee....*t! No perceptions. Jes bald faced greed!

We got us a new brewery. Not jes one of those micro-pub/pizza joints,
but a real live put-it-in-bottles brewery. I called 'em cuz they got
some kinda weird hops in their overpriced IPA. I asked if they had a
tasting room, they replied yes. Only $15 for four 4oz drinks. Say
what!?

Heck, I can buy a serious sixer for that kinda jingle and still have
some ded prezes left over.

nb

On 2015-04-14, > wrote:

> I like a nice, robust red every time.

Have you tried a good CA zinfandel? Some of that stuff is so robust,
it'll reach outta the bottle and grab ya.

nb

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:17:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:04:00 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
> >On 4/13/2015 5:19 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:34:02 -1000, dsi1
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
> >>> that your customers are scumbags and are not to be trusted.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The reason most charge now is many on the tasters are not customers,
> >> just scumbags looking for a freebie.
> >>
> >> Most places had some sort of a deal that when you buy, you get a
> >> discount, rebate, or other compensation against what you paid. One
> >> winery in particular that I've been to a couple of times charges a
> >> modest fee for five different tastings. I've seen many people do the
> >> tasting and walk out not spending a penny otherwise.
> >>
> >> There is one vineyard I frequent that has a "Cellar Club" you can sign
> >> up for once you buy something. You get tasting for two people on every
> >> visit and you get a 15% discount every time you buy a case

All of them do that. Wine clubs are fine if you want them to send you
wines you haven't tasted before. I used to belong to quite a few and
was extremely disappointed with the entire experience. When you get
two bottles, one is just an so-so wine and the other is out of your
normal price range, but I was never impressed enough by anything they
sent me that I called and ordered a case of it. In fact the only time
I buy wine by the case is when I'm actually at the winery. Then it's
usually a mixed case, not just one wine.

> >>
> >All things being equal, I'm partial to businesses that don't consider me
> >to be a scumbag. Is this the wrong attitude?
>
> No, they don't consider the customers to be scumbags, they consider
> the many freeloaders to be. They are not now and never will be a
> customer. Again, how often do you go to vineyards for tastings? How
> often have you observed what goes on? Easy to sit back on your throne
> and say what a business should do if you've never experienced it.
> Don't let real life get in the way of your perception.

People used to hire limos and go winery hopping without buying a
thing. It was a cheap way to bar hop. Wineries are very liberal with
their tastings anyway. I've done "wine weekends" where we stay in a
B&B or boutique hotel in wine country and go wine tasting in the area.
I haven't ever paid a dime in fees because I am serious about buying
at least one bottle from every establishment. I tell them I don't
want much in the glass and spit out what I taste, so they know I'm not
kidding. Oddly (IMO) enough, it has been harder to find something I
liked at the wineries I'd heard of (not crap wine like Beringer, I'm
talking about wineries like Navarro and Scharffenberger) than those I
hadn't.

You know what I discovered along the way? I usually make a list of
the places I want to visit and part of the chat with counter people is
where you've been and where you're off to next. I discovered that I
can ask for opinions and get good ones. I talking about Esterlina
with a Scharffenberger employee and asked which wine he'd recommend I
try there. He already knew my tastes because I'd done both wine
flights (with running commentary) and he was right on target with his
recommendation. That's one time I took home a full case.

--

sf

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:30:56 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> Have you ever tried icewine? It is a hell of a lot sweeter than
> Sauterne. It is so sweet that it is almost syrupy. The stuff is
> delicious, but way too sweet for me to have any more than a small glass
> of it.
>
We don't get real freezes out here, so some wineries have what they
call a "Late Harvest" wine. Man, they are delicious! Mainly they are
wines where the grapes have been through a frost, so they're left on
the vine longer to dehydrate a bit. The Alexander Valley Zin is
terrific. Best drunk after dinner in a wine country restaurant that's
full of the local atmosphere.

--

sf

On 2015-04-14 10:41 AM, sf wrote:

> We don't get real freezes out here, so some wineries have what they
> call a "Late Harvest" wine. Man, they are delicious! Mainly they are
> wines where the grapes have been through a frost, so they're left on
> the vine longer to dehydrate a bit. The Alexander Valley Zin is
> terrific. Best drunk after dinner in a wine country restaurant that's
> full of the local atmosphere.
>


Personally, I prefer some of the late harvest wines. It is sweet but
not cloying. Don't get me wrong about ice wine. It's great stuff. They
tend to have a lot character and a series of tastes and sensations.
It's just that a little goes a long way. It's not like a liquor where
you can put the top back on and it will be good for years. It's a very
expensive product that won't keep more than a few days after opening.

On 14/04/2015 8:48 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-04-14 10:41 AM, sf wrote:
>

>
> Personally, I prefer some of the late harvest wines. It is sweet but
> not cloying. Don't get me wrong about ice wine. It's great stuff. They
> tend to have a lot character and a series of tastes and sensations. It's
> just that a little goes a long way. It's not like a liquor where you
> can put the top back on and it will be good for years. It's a very
> expensive product that won't keep more than a few days after opening.

Chill it well and drink it with freshly cooked foie gras.
Graham
--

On 2015-04-14, > wrote:

> I have but I wouldn't have called it robust.

You gotta try a few more. I've had about a half a dozen bottles of CA
zin, over the yrs. that were proof positive wine is a still-living
breathing thing. Every sip from the glass totally different than the
previous. In a good way. I even gave up a prized zin to a tasting at
an up-scale wine shop. The owners were dumbfounded. This zin was
from Santa Barbara.

Look for "old vine" zins. Zin vines are not uprooted and replanted
every 7-10 yrs. Some CA zins are 100 yrs old. Plus, zin has a very
high sugar content, so alcohol content is high. I never buy a zin
with less than 14.5%abv. I've had non-dessert vins as high as 17%.
Dessert vins get scary. Eighteen to twent-one percent abv. Bring
$$$$.

I've also had a local pinot noir that rocked my boat. So robust, it
was "chewy" (real wine tasting term).

nb

On 14/04/2015 9:10 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2015-04-14, > wrote:
>

>
> Look for "old vine" zins. Zin vines are not uprooted and replanted
> every 7-10 yrs. Some CA zins are 100 yrs old. Plus, zin has a very
> high sugar content,

Only in hotter climates surely.

so alcohol content is high. I never buy a zin
> with less than 14.5%abv.

Wines like that are too "hot". I try to buy wines with less than 14%
alcohol.


>
> I've also had a local pinot noir that rocked my boat. So robust, it
> was "chewy" (real wine tasting term).
>
The best Californian PNs I've had are those of Walter Hansel from
Russian River.
They are very Burgundian and underpriced for their quality.
Graham
--

On 2015-04-14 10:54 AM, graham wrote:

>> Personally, I prefer some of the late harvest wines. It is sweet but
>> not cloying. Don't get me wrong about ice wine. It's great stuff. They
>> tend to have a lot character and a series of tastes and sensations. It's
>> just that a little goes a long way. It's not like a liquor where you
>> can put the top back on and it will be good for years. It's a very
>> expensive product that won't keep more than a few days after opening.
>
> Chill it well and drink it with freshly cooked foie gras.

Way too sweet for a first course wine

On 14/04/2015 9:45 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-04-14 10:54 AM, graham wrote:
>
>>> Personally, I prefer some of the late harvest wines. It is sweet but
>>> not cloying. Don't get me wrong about ice wine. It's great stuff. They
>>> tend to have a lot character and a series of tastes and sensations. It's
>>> just that a little goes a long way. It's not like a liquor where you
>>> can put the top back on and it will be good for years. It's a very
>>> expensive product that won't keep more than a few days after opening.
>>
>> Chill it well and drink it with freshly cooked foie gras.
>
> Way too sweet for a first course wine
>
>
Not with FG!
Last year in Bordeaux I ordered FG as a starter and the waiter insisted
that I have a glass of Sauternes with it. He was right, of course.
Graham

--

On 2015-04-14 11:59 AM, graham wrote:
> On 14/04/2015 9:45 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2015-04-14 10:54 AM, graham wrote:
>>
>>>> Personally, I prefer some of the late harvest wines. It is sweet but
>>>> not cloying. Don't get me wrong about ice wine. It's great stuff. They
>>>> tend to have a lot character and a series of tastes and sensations.
>>>> It's
>>>> just that a little goes a long way. It's not like a liquor where you
>>>> can put the top back on and it will be good for years. It's a very
>>>> expensive product that won't keep more than a few days after opening.
>>>
>>> Chill it well and drink it with freshly cooked foie gras.
>>
>> Way too sweet for a first course wine
>>
>>
> Not with FG!
> Last year in Bordeaux I ordered FG as a starter and the waiter insisted
> that I have a glass of Sauternes with it. He was right, of course.

Oh.... "It" is Sauterne? We were talking about icewine.

On 14/04/2015 10:23 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-04-14 11:59 AM, graham wrote:
>> On 14/04/2015 9:45 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2015-04-14 10:54 AM, graham wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Personally, I prefer some of the late harvest wines. It is sweet but
>>>>> not cloying. Don't get me wrong about ice wine. It's great stuff.
>>>>> They
>>>>> tend to have a lot character and a series of tastes and sensations.
>>>>> It's
>>>>> just that a little goes a long way. It's not like a liquor where you
>>>>> can put the top back on and it will be good for years. It's a very
>>>>> expensive product that won't keep more than a few days after opening.
>>>>
>>>> Chill it well and drink it with freshly cooked foie gras.
>>>
>>> Way too sweet for a first course wine
>>>
>>>
>> Not with FG!
>> Last year in Bordeaux I ordered FG as a starter and the waiter insisted
>> that I have a glass of Sauternes with it. He was right, of course.
>
> Oh.... "It" is Sauterne? We were talking about icewine.
>
I was countering the idea that sweet wine should not be part of a first
course. Some icewines still have a decent amount of acid and are not at
all cloying.
Graham

--

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:44:24 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 14/04/2015 10:23 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2015-04-14 11:59 AM, graham wrote:
>>> On 14/04/2015 9:45 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> On 2015-04-14 10:54 AM, graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Personally, I prefer some of the late harvest wines. It is sweet but
>>>>>> not cloying. Don't get me wrong about ice wine. It's great stuff.
>>>>>> They
>>>>>> tend to have a lot character and a series of tastes and sensations.
>>>>>> It's
>>>>>> just that a little goes a long way. It's not like a liquor where you
>>>>>> can put the top back on and it will be good for years. It's a very
>>>>>> expensive product that won't keep more than a few days after opening.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chill it well and drink it with freshly cooked foie gras.
>>>>
>>>> Way too sweet for a first course wine
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Not with FG!
>>> Last year in Bordeaux I ordered FG as a starter and the waiter insisted
>>> that I have a glass of Sauternes with it. He was right, of course.
>>
>> Oh.... "It" is Sauterne? We were talking about icewine.
>>
>I was countering the idea that sweet wine should not be part of a first
>course. Some icewines still have a decent amount of acid and are not at
>all cloying.
>Graham

Well Sauternes is indeed sweet, it's sauterne than may not be sweet.

On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 2:17:26 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:04:00 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
> >On 4/13/2015 5:19 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:34:02 -1000, dsi1
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
> >>> that your customers are scumbags and are not to be trusted.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The reason most charge now is many on the tasters are not customers,
> >> just scumbags looking for a freebie.
> >>
> >> Most places had some sort of a deal that when you buy, you get a
> >> discount, rebate, or other compensation against what you paid. One
> >> winery in particular that I've been to a couple of times charges a
> >> modest fee for five different tastings. I've seen many people do the
> >> tasting and walk out not spending a penny otherwise.
> >>
> >> There is one vineyard I frequent that has a "Cellar Club" you can sign
> >> up for once you buy something. You get tasting for two people on every
> >> visit and you get a 15% discount every time you buy a case
> >>
> >All things being equal, I'm partial to businesses that don't consider me
> >to be a scumbag. Is this the wrong attitude?
>
> No, they don't consider the customers to be scumbags, they consider
> the many freeloaders to be. They are not now and never will be a
> customer. Again, how often do you go to vineyards for tastings? How
> often have you observed what goes on? Easy to sit back on your throne
> and say what a business should do if you've never experienced it.
> Don't let real life get in the way of your perception.

Actually, I'm not sitting back on a throne - I'm down in the trenches and putting my money where my mouth is. Businesses gots to do what they gots to do. OTOH, the businesses that I admire are the ones that didn't do business as usual but shook heaven and earth. :-)

On 2015-04-14 12:44 PM, graham wrote:
> On 14/04/2015 10:23 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2015-04-14 11:59 AM, graham wrote:
>>> On 14/04/2015 9:45 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> On 2015-04-14 10:54 AM, graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Personally, I prefer some of the late harvest wines. It is sweet but
>>>>>> not cloying. Don't get me wrong about ice wine. It's great stuff.
>>>>>> They
>>>>>> tend to have a lot character and a series of tastes and sensations.
>>>>>> It's
>>>>>> just that a little goes a long way. It's not like a liquor where
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> can put the top back on and it will be good for years. It's a very
>>>>>> expensive product that won't keep more than a few days after opening.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chill it well and drink it with freshly cooked foie gras.
>>>>
>>>> Way too sweet for a first course wine
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Not with FG!
>>> Last year in Bordeaux I ordered FG as a starter and the waiter insisted
>>> that I have a glass of Sauternes with it. He was right, of course.
>>
>> Oh.... "It" is Sauterne? We were talking about icewine.
>>
> I was countering the idea that sweet wine should not be part of a first
> course.
There is sweet wine and there is really sweet wine, and then, way past
that is icewine. Next on the sweetness scale is maple syrup.



> Some icewines still have a decent amount of acid and are not at
> all cloying.


By their very nature they are very high in sugar.

On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 3:24:33 AM UTC-10, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
> >Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>dsi1
> >>dsi1 wrote:
> >>
> >>> Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
> >>> that your customers are scumbags and are not to be trusted.
> >>
> >> The reason most charge now is many on the tasters are not customers,
> >> just scumbags looking for a freebie.
> >>
> >> Most places had some sort of a deal that when you buy, you get a
> >> discount, rebate, or other compensation against what you paid. One
> >> winery in particular that I've been to a couple of times charges a
> >> modest fee for five different tastings. I've seen many people do the
> >> tasting and walk out not spending a penny otherwise.
> >>
> >> There is one vineyard I frequent that has a "Cellar Club" you can sign
> >> up for once you buy something. You get tasting for two people on every
> >> visit and you get a 15% discount every time you buy a case
> >>
> >All things being equal, I'm partial to businesses that don't consider me
> >to be a scumbag. Is this the wrong attitude?
>
> dsi1, you're altering the terminology - your terminology is incorrect,
> they are not wine samplings, they are wine tastings... check the
> Subject line... I've never seen wine "samplings" advertised. I
> believe samples should be free with no strings otherwise they're not
> samples. When the bakery places a tray of broken cookies on the
> counter labeled "Samples" they hope people buy but if not business
> goes on as broken cookies otherwise go into the trash, or made into
> crumbs for decorating a cake. Wine "Tastings" do not imply free, wine
> tastings are held with the explicit intent of introducing and selling
> wines, they are not samples. If you attend wine tastings, pay a fee
> or not, and don't buy then you are indeed a scumbag. Winerys learned
> that charging a fee keeps the riff raff/scumbags away making for a
> more enjoyable less crowded experience for those who buy... and those
> who buy typically recoup the modest entry fee with the first case they
> buy at discount... the fee is meant to encourage purchasing. I can't
> imagine normal people who actually have a life wasting a day sipping
> dribs of wine just because it's free when they don't intend to buy...
> the scumbags would do themselves and everyone else a favor staying
> home guzzling their favorite $3/liter box wine.

Actually, my terminology is always 100 percent correct. I'm not talking about special events put on by the winery or groups of damned tourists bussed in. I'm talking about a guy dropping in that's interested in getting info on a product. The reality is if you're going to sell some products, especially new ones, it has to be made real in the buyer's mind and not remain just words bouncing around. My guess is that the is very true with wine - it's best to let the wine do the talking.

On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 4:25:24 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:17:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:04:00 -1000, dsi1
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >On 4/13/2015 5:19 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:34:02 -1000, dsi1
> > >> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> Charging for samples is a mickey mouse way of doing business. It implies
> > >>> that your customers are scumbags and are not to be trusted.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> The reason most charge now is many on the tasters are not customers,
> > >> just scumbags looking for a freebie.
> > >>
> > >> Most places had some sort of a deal that when you buy, you get a
> > >> discount, rebate, or other compensation against what you paid. One
> > >> winery in particular that I've been to a couple of times charges a
> > >> modest fee for five different tastings. I've seen many people do the
> > >> tasting and walk out not spending a penny otherwise.
> > >>
> > >> There is one vineyard I frequent that has a "Cellar Club" you can sign
> > >> up for once you buy something. You get tasting for two people on every
> > >> visit and you get a 15% discount every time you buy a case
>
> All of them do that. Wine clubs are fine if you want them to send you
> wines you haven't tasted before. I used to belong to quite a few and
> was extremely disappointed with the entire experience. When you get
> two bottles, one is just an so-so wine and the other is out of your
> normal price range, but I was never impressed enough by anything they
> sent me that I called and ordered a case of it. In fact the only time
> I buy wine by the case is when I'm actually at the winery. Then it's
> usually a mixed case, not just one wine.
>
> > >>
> > >All things being equal, I'm partial to businesses that don't consider me
> > >to be a scumbag. Is this the wrong attitude?
> >
> > No, they don't consider the customers to be scumbags, they consider
> > the many freeloaders to be. They are not now and never will be a
> > customer. Again, how often do you go to vineyards for tastings? How
> > often have you observed what goes on? Easy to sit back on your throne
> > and say what a business should do if you've never experienced it.
> > Don't let real life get in the way of your perception.
>
> People used to hire limos and go winery hopping without buying a
> thing. It was a cheap way to bar hop. Wineries are very liberal with
> their tastings anyway. I've done "wine weekends" where we stay in a
> B&B or boutique hotel in wine country and go wine tasting in the area.
> I haven't ever paid a dime in fees because I am serious about buying
> at least one bottle from every establishment. I tell them I don't
> want much in the glass and spit out what I taste, so they know I'm not
> kidding. Oddly (IMO) enough, it has been harder to find something I
> liked at the wineries I'd heard of (not crap wine like Beringer, I'm
> talking about wineries like Navarro and Scharffenberger) than those I
> hadn't.
>
> You know what I discovered along the way? I usually make a list of
> the places I want to visit and part of the chat with counter people is
> where you've been and where you're off to next. I discovered that I
> can ask for opinions and get good ones. I talking about Esterlina
> with a Scharffenberger employee and asked which wine he'd recommend I
> try there. He already knew my tastes because I'd done both wine
> flights (with running commentary) and he was right on target with his
> recommendation. That's one time I took home a full case.
>
> --
>
> sf

If you're into wine culture, you're in the right place. I guess I should have visited at least one winery back when I was living in your neck of the woods. Perhaps one of these days.

On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 3:08:05 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-04-14 1:10 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> >> It is not just the half ounce of wine, it is also the time and the
> >> glassware that has to be washed, maybe some nibbles on the counter
> >> too. Fifteen years ago, hardly anyone charge, but there are more
> >> leeches around now.
> >>
> >
> > My guess is that some companies consider all that to be the cost of
> > doing business.
>
>
> Yes they do. The wineries did it for a long time. If you go to a
> flooring store you can see small samples of tile or rug. It may be
> difficult for some people to imagine what it will look like covering an
> entire floor, but they simply cannot afford the time and space to have
> entire rooms done in the colours and styles you are considering. When
> it got to the point where people were coming around just to taste the
> wines and the wineries realized that they were just free wine bars for
> mooches they started charging. I don't do as much wine tasting as I used
> to but, other than ice wine, I have not paid for samples in years. I go
> out looking for certain types of wines, find the wines I like and buy a
> anywhere from 6 bottles to 2 cases and have not been charged for the
> samples.

I don't know a thing about selling wine but my guess is that one of the most important task would be to get people to taste the product. Charging for a taste seems counterproductive. OTOH, I suppose a small number of cars are sold without a test drive. :-)

On 14/04/2015 1:49 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 3:08:05 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2015-04-14 1:10 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>>> It is not just the half ounce of wine, it is also the time and the
>>>> glassware that has to be washed, maybe some nibbles on the counter
>>>> too. Fifteen years ago, hardly anyone charge, but there are more
>>>> leeches around now.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My guess is that some companies consider all that to be the cost of
>>> doing business.
>>
>>
>> Yes they do. The wineries did it for a long time. If you go to a
>> flooring store you can see small samples of tile or rug. It may be
>> difficult for some people to imagine what it will look like covering an
>> entire floor, but they simply cannot afford the time and space to have
>> entire rooms done in the colours and styles you are considering. When
>> it got to the point where people were coming around just to taste the
>> wines and the wineries realized that they were just free wine bars for
>> mooches they started charging. I don't do as much wine tasting as I used
>> to but, other than ice wine, I have not paid for samples in years. I go
>> out looking for certain types of wines, find the wines I like and buy a
>> anywhere from 6 bottles to 2 cases and have not been charged for the
>> samples.
>
> I don't know a thing about selling wine but my guess is that one of the
most important task would be to get people to taste the product. Charging
for a taste seems counterproductive.
>
That's fine if you make "2 buck chuck". But if your wine is of decent to
high quality, well known to be such and with a commensurate highish
price, then you can't give it away to all and sundry.
Charging helps separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
Graham

--