On 8/6/2015 9:20 PM, wrote:
> On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 11:03:14 AM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 6:02:53 AM UTC-10, notbob wrote:
>>> Back story first:
>>>
>>> I wuz exploring koko's blog and slipped into White On Rice, one of
>>> koko's linked blog sites. What was the first recipe to catch my eye?
>>> Umami Burgers. ????
>>>
>>> Now, I'm jones'ing an ancient craving, hamburgers and cheeseburgers.
>>> Couldn't find a burger worth a damn in my locale, so started making my
>>> own. I've changed my recipe jes a tad, but I still got it! Made one
>>> last night and it was sublime. But, I'm not above improving upon my
>>> own recipe to further my occasional addiction. WOR sez Viet fish
>>> sauce is the answer to the "ultimate" umami burger.
>>>
>>> <http://whiteonricecouple.com/recipes/best-umami-hamburger-recipe/>
>>>
>>> While I love fish sauce (Thai or Viet) and always have plenty on hand,
>>> never thought of it as a marinade for my burger meat. I'll definetly
>>> give it a shot. My burger jones is alive and well.
>>>
>>> Still....
>>>
>>> What is umami? Is it a real deal or jes some Asians trying to foist
>>> their cooking methods/terms off as some sorta scientific fact? If
>>> tomatoes and other MSG heavy foods are particularly savory, is that a
>>> whole new element for one's palate to discern? Why is sweet, sour,
>>> bitter, and salty not enough? In short, is "umami" a real distinction
>>> or jes another trendy term being ferociously flogged through the
>>> food-o-sphere?
>>>
>>> nb
>>
>> If you're unaware of what this is, you could live without it. It could be just a trend as far as home cooks are concerned.
>>
>> I consider absolutely essential in some dishes. Potato salad being one. My current favorite trick is to use gochujang, but you can also get that naturally by lightly scorching rice in chicken stock as in jook. The locals here are heavy into umami. It's why we use shoyu and MSG in cooking. Umami is the reason why Japan mayo and gochujang is gonna make it big in the US. OTOH, that's just going to be a hot trend for 15 minutes or so.
>>
>> The people in Hawaii and Asia were raised eating umami rich foods. I have some doubts that umami will have much of an impact on cooks not raised on umami foods - even though the food manufacturers use it to increase sales. They are fully aware of how powerful the stuff is as a flavor enhancer.
>>
> The Western diet is full of umami: Worcestershire sauce and Parmesan cheese
> come to mind (the real parmesan, not the green shaker can).
>
> For me a little goes a long way.
>

I don't think the West has much of a history with the taste. The
Japanese do because they have been fermenting rice and soybeans
utilizing Aspergillus oryzae for a couple of thousand years. At it's
heart, the umami taste is the end result of fermentation with this
fungus. They use it to produce shoyu, miso, sake, shio koji, fermented
tofu, and other products. This makes A. oryzae the most important fungus
to the Japanese and is responsible for much of the flavor of Japanese
cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:22:33 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:

> I don't think the West has much of a history with the taste. The
> Japanese do because they have been fermenting rice and soybeans
> utilizing Aspergillus oryzae for a couple of thousand years. At it's
> heart, the umami taste is the end result of fermentation with this
> fungus. They use it to produce shoyu, miso, sake, shio koji, fermented
> tofu, and other products. This makes A. oryzae the most important fungus
> to the Japanese and is responsible for much of the flavor of Japanese
> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."

You get a lot of umami with nicely browned meat. We have a lot of
experience with that, and with a host of other foods that provide
umami: tomatoes, anchovies, hard cheeses, mushrooms, etc.

Umami is not exclusively a Japanese thing, although they monetized it
when they invented MSG, and they provided us with a name for it.

Cindy Hamilton

On 8/7/2015 8:40 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
George HW Bush is a known evil pedophile, who ran a Congressional
Blackmail Child Sex Ring during the 1980s known as “Operation Brownstone
and Operation Brownstar”, and later to become known as “The Finders or
The Franklin Coverup”. U.S. Vice President George HW Bush would sneak
children over to Senator Barney Frank’s condo, known as a “Brownstone”
to their famous cocktail parties, where U.S. Congressman and U.S.
Senators — some willing and some unwilling participants — got a taste of
the “Voodoo Drug” in their drink.

To prove a case, you need one that was involved in an operation or a
witness or documents; in this case, U.S. Customs documents prove the
case without getting anyone still living killed. Inside the (scribd)
document below is an article that appeared in US News and World report
December 27 1993, entitled “Through a Glass Very Darkly”. This includes
cops, spies and a very old investigation — also copies of the U.S.
Customs Reports where the names are not blacked out.

On 8/7/2015 12:40 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:22:33 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>
>> I don't think the West has much of a history with the taste. The
>> Japanese do because they have been fermenting rice and soybeans
>> utilizing Aspergillus oryzae for a couple of thousand years. At it's
>> heart, the umami taste is the end result of fermentation with this
>> fungus. They use it to produce shoyu, miso, sake, shio koji, fermented
>> tofu, and other products. This makes A. oryzae the most important fungus
>> to the Japanese and is responsible for much of the flavor of Japanese
>> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."
>
> You get a lot of umami with nicely browned meat. We have a lot of
> experience with that, and with a host of other foods that provide
> umami: tomatoes, anchovies, hard cheeses, mushrooms, etc.
>
> Umami is not exclusively a Japanese thing, although they monetized it
> when they invented MSG, and they provided us with a name for it.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

I understand that the West has foods with umami flavors but to the
average Westerner, umami is a mysterious thing. The reason is because
most of them were not raised with shoyu or fish sauce as their national
condiment. Hawaiians understand it because they put shoyu on everything
- from fish to stews, heck we put shoyu on rice. We totally get the
concept.

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 3:27:21 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On 8/7/2015 12:40 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:22:33 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> >
> >> I don't think the West has much of a history with the taste. The
> >> Japanese do because they have been fermenting rice and soybeans
> >> utilizing Aspergillus oryzae for a couple of thousand years. At it's
> >> heart, the umami taste is the end result of fermentation with this
> >> fungus. They use it to produce shoyu, miso, sake, shio koji, fermented
> >> tofu, and other products. This makes A. oryzae the most important fungus
> >> to the Japanese and is responsible for much of the flavor of Japanese
> >> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."
> >
> > You get a lot of umami with nicely browned meat. We have a lot of
> > experience with that, and with a host of other foods that provide
> > umami: tomatoes, anchovies, hard cheeses, mushrooms, etc.
> >
> > Umami is not exclusively a Japanese thing, although they monetized it
> > when they invented MSG, and they provided us with a name for it.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
>
> I understand that the West has foods with umami flavors but to the
> average Westerner, umami is a mysterious thing. The reason is because
> most of them were not raised with shoyu or fish sauce as their national
> condiment. Hawaiians understand it because they put shoyu on everything
> - from fish to stews, heck we put shoyu on rice. We totally get the
> concept.

We get the concept, but we don't talk about it. We just eat
umami-rich foods and say "Yum".

There's a lot more to umami than shoyu or fish sauce.

Cindy Hamilton

On 8/7/2015 10:15 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 3:27:21 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 8/7/2015 12:40 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:22:33 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't think the West has much of a history with the taste. The
>>>> Japanese do because they have been fermenting rice and soybeans
>>>> utilizing Aspergillus oryzae for a couple of thousand years. At it's
>>>> heart, the umami taste is the end result of fermentation with this
>>>> fungus. They use it to produce shoyu, miso, sake, shio koji, fermented
>>>> tofu, and other products. This makes A. oryzae the most important fungus
>>>> to the Japanese and is responsible for much of the flavor of Japanese
>>>> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."
>>>
>>> You get a lot of umami with nicely browned meat. We have a lot of
>>> experience with that, and with a host of other foods that provide
>>> umami: tomatoes, anchovies, hard cheeses, mushrooms, etc.
>>>
>>> Umami is not exclusively a Japanese thing, although they monetized it
>>> when they invented MSG, and they provided us with a name for it.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> I understand that the West has foods with umami flavors but to the
>> average Westerner, umami is a mysterious thing. The reason is because
>> most of them were not raised with shoyu or fish sauce as their national
>> condiment. Hawaiians understand it because they put shoyu on everything
>> - from fish to stews, heck we put shoyu on rice. We totally get the
>> concept.
>
> We get the concept, but we don't talk about it. We just eat
> umami-rich foods and say "Yum".
>
> There's a lot more to umami than shoyu or fish sauce.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

I have to agree with you there - there's no need to talk about umami.

On 8/7/2015 2:28 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 8/7/2015 10:15 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 3:27:21 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 8/7/2015 12:40 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:22:33 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the West has much of a history with the taste. The
>>>>> Japanese do because they have been fermenting rice and soybeans
>>>>> utilizing Aspergillus oryzae for a couple of thousand years. At it's
>>>>> heart, the umami taste is the end result of fermentation with this
>>>>> fungus. They use it to produce shoyu, miso, sake, shio koji, fermented
>>>>> tofu, and other products. This makes A. oryzae the most important
>>>>> fungus
>>>>> to the Japanese and is responsible for much of the flavor of Japanese
>>>>> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."
>>>>
>>>> You get a lot of umami with nicely browned meat. We have a lot of
>>>> experience with that, and with a host of other foods that provide
>>>> umami: tomatoes, anchovies, hard cheeses, mushrooms, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Umami is not exclusively a Japanese thing, although they monetized it
>>>> when they invented MSG, and they provided us with a name for it.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>>
>>> I understand that the West has foods with umami flavors but to the
>>> average Westerner, umami is a mysterious thing. The reason is because
>>> most of them were not raised with shoyu or fish sauce as their national
>>> condiment. Hawaiians understand it because they put shoyu on everything
>>> - from fish to stews, heck we put shoyu on rice. We totally get the
>>> concept.
>>
>> We get the concept, but we don't talk about it. We just eat
>> umami-rich foods and say "Yum".
>>
>> There's a lot more to umami than shoyu or fish sauce.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
> I have to agree with you there - there's no need to talk about umami.


So is this like a covert thing now?

On 8/8/2015 6:15 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
I have, on at least three prior occasions, written posts that delve into
the “alleged” lurid past of one of our former presidents, George Herbert
Walker Bush (GHWB), the current but ailing patriarch of the Bush Family
Dynasty – I refer to them as the Bush Family Crime Syndicate, certainly
not in terms of endearment – but rather more like the Mafia Godfather
who prepares his sons to take over the family business upon his death.
This particular post references an article by Stew Webb, a contributor
of Veterans Today.

In his life-time, George H. W. Bush (GHWB) has controlled every
clandestine (hidden from view) and secret organization/operation within
the arsenal of the United States government as either 1) Director of the
CIA, 2) Vice President to Ronald Reagan (who was an unwitting puppet to
the Bush controlled cabal – GHWB secretly gave Reagan poisons that
hastened his fall into Alzheimer’s Disease and evidence suggests he
helped plan Reagan’ attempted assassination by John Hinckley, whose
family were close friends of the Bush family – a coincidence?) and 3)
ultimately as President of the United States before Bill Clinton took
office.

On 8/7/2015 1:27 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 8/7/2015 12:40 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:22:33 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think the West has much of a history with the taste. The
>>> Japanese do because they have been fermenting rice and soybeans
>>> utilizing Aspergillus oryzae for a couple of thousand years. At it's
>>> heart, the umami taste is the end result of fermentation with this
>>> fungus. They use it to produce shoyu, miso, sake, shio koji, fermented
>>> tofu, and other products. This makes A. oryzae the most important fungus
>>> to the Japanese and is responsible for much of the flavor of Japanese
>>> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."
>>
>> You get a lot of umami with nicely browned meat. We have a lot of
>> experience with that, and with a host of other foods that provide
>> umami: tomatoes, anchovies, hard cheeses, mushrooms, etc.
>>
>> Umami is not exclusively a Japanese thing, although they monetized it
>> when they invented MSG, and they provided us with a name for it.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
> I understand that the West has foods with umami flavors but to the
> average Westerner, umami is a mysterious thing. The reason is because
> most of them were not raised with shoyu or fish sauce as their national
> condiment. Hawaiians understand it because they put shoyu on everything
> - from fish to stews, heck we put shoyu on rice. We totally get the
> concept.


I totally get that too, rice bags for umami, always.

On 2015-08-07, dsi1 > wrote:

> cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."

Hate to burst yer bubble, but only the Japanese could have named
"umami".

Americans have been eating and using "umami" for over half a century.
We jes never applied a term to it. I know cuz I've been eating pizza
and spaghetti heavily dosed w/ Parmesan cheese for even longer. Plus,
in the 50s, Ac'cent brand MSG was huge in America. The very first
recipe box I ever remember seeing was an old Ac'cent box. It was only
since the great Chinese restaurant scare (totally disproved) that
Americans have backed away from MSG. That still didn't impair their
love for pizza/spaghetti, which is allegedly loaded with "umami"
(tomatoes, parm).

I'm gonna try an experiment. Dashi, the ubiquitous Japanese soup
broth, is considered to be THE food that distinguishes and isolates(?)
"umami". I've made it once before, so will make it again and see what
I discover.

I will make REAL dashi using kombu seaweed and dried bonito flakes. I
long ago changed to instant dashi, but for the sake of science I will
make it from scratch, despite bonito flakes being expensive as Hell
out here in the boonies. Stay tuned.

nb

On 8/8/2015 12:21 AM, notbob wrote:
I have, on at least three prior occasions, written posts that delve into
the “alleged” lurid past of one of our former presidents, George Herbert
Walker Bush (GHWB), the current but ailing patriarch of the Bush Family
Dynasty – I refer to them as the Bush Family Crime Syndicate, certainly
not in terms of endearment – but rather more like the Mafia Godfather
who prepares his sons to take over the family business upon his death.
This particular post references an article by Stew Webb, a contributor
of Veterans Today.

In his life-time, George H. W. Bush (GHWB) has controlled every
clandestine (hidden from view) and secret organization/operation within
the arsenal of the United States government as either 1) Director of the
CIA, 2) Vice President to Ronald Reagan (who was an unwitting puppet to
the Bush controlled cabal – GHWB secretly gave Reagan poisons that
hastened his fall into Alzheimer’s Disease and evidence suggests he
helped plan Reagan’ attempted assassination by John Hinckley, whose
family were close friends of the Bush family – a coincidence?) and 3)
ultimately as President of the United States before Bill Clinton took
office.

On 7 Aug 2015 14:21:56 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2015-08-07, dsi1 > wrote:
>
snippage
>
>I'm gonna try an experiment. Dashi, the ubiquitous Japanese soup
>broth, is considered to be THE food that distinguishes and isolates(?)
>"umami". I've made it once before, so will make it again and see what
>I discover.
>
Making Dashi is so easy. It's wonderful sipped on it's own and as a
base for any number of recipes.

>I will make REAL dashi using kombu seaweed and dried bonito flakes. I
>long ago changed to instant dashi, but for the sake of science I will
>make it from scratch, despite bonito flakes being expensive as Hell
>out here in the boonies. Stay tuned.
>
>nb
I also put a little piece of kombu seaweed into my chicken broth,
stews, soups etc...it makes a world of difference.
My friend took my advice and put a piece of kombu in her chicken soup.
She said her family raved on and on about how that was the best soup
she'd ever made. So yes, umami is real and makes a difference, and is
availale from several sources.

koko

--

Food is our common ground, a universal experience
James Beard

On 8/8/2015 10:00 AM, koko wrote:
John Caylor of www.insider-magazine.com reports that a well-placed
source within the Florida Department of Business and Professional
Regulation has revealed Governor Jeb Bush ordered the destruction and
shredding of public records and documents in violation of Florida law.
The department maintains oversight and approval of state gaming
licensees, slot machines, dog and horse tracks, and jai-alai. In
addition, the state government source revealed that Jeb Bush has
replaced key members of the Governor's Staff in Tallahassee with
personnel from Texas who are overseeing the destruction of state
documents. An FBI source has confirmed the destruction of public records
by Jeb Bush may be in response to the ongoing criminal proceedings
against GOP lobbyist Jack Abramoff and the Federal investigation of the
2001 gangland murder in Miami of Sun Cruz casino boat owner Gus Boulis.

notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 2015-08-07, dsi1 > wrote:
>
> > cuisine. Only a Japanese could have discovered "umami."
>
> Hate to burst yer bubble, but only the Japanese could have named
> "umami".
>
> Americans have been eating and using "umami" for over half a century.
> We jes never applied a term to it. I know cuz I've been eating pizza
> and spaghetti heavily dosed w/ Parmesan cheese for even longer. Plus,
> in the 50s, Ac'cent brand MSG was huge in America. The very first
> recipe box I ever remember seeing was an old Ac'cent box. It was only
> since the great Chinese restaurant scare (totally disproved) that
> Americans have backed away from MSG. That still didn't impair their
> love for pizza/spaghetti, which is allegedly loaded with "umami"
> (tomatoes, parm).
>
> I'm gonna try an experiment. Dashi, the ubiquitous Japanese soup
> broth, is considered to be THE food that distinguishes and isolates(?)
> "umami". I've made it once before, so will make it again and see what
> I discover.
>
> I will make REAL dashi using kombu seaweed and dried bonito flakes. I
> long ago changed to instant dashi, but for the sake of science I will
> make it from scratch, despite bonito flakes being expensive as Hell
> out here in the boonies. Stay tuned.
>
> nb

It's not hard. You save the flakes in the fridge and add more seawwed
for 'second use dashi' and you can get a weaker version called 'third
use' as well.

Carol


--

On 8/7/2015 6:22 PM, dsi1 wrote:
George HW Bush is a known evil pedophile, who ran a Congressional
Blackmail Child Sex Ring during the 1980s known as “Operation Brownstone
and Operation Brownstar”, and later to become known as “The Finders or
The Franklin Coverup”. U.S. Vice President George HW Bush would sneak
children over to Senator Barney Frank’s condo, known as a “Brownstone”
to their famous cocktail parties, where U.S. Congressman and U.S.
Senators — some willing and some unwilling participants — got a taste of
the “Voodoo Drug” in their drink.

To prove a case, you need one that was involved in an operation or a
witness or documents; in this case, U.S. Customs documents prove the
case without getting anyone still living killed. Inside the (scribd)
document below is an article that appeared in US News and World report
December 27 1993, entitled “Through a Glass Very Darkly”. This includes
cops, spies and a very old investigation — also copies of the U.S.
Customs Reports where the names are not blacked out.