Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>Cindy Hamilton
>> >Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> >>la llorona wrote:
>> >> >jmcquown wrote:
>> >> >>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> >> >>>Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >> >>>>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> $10/hr for minimum wage entry level jobs for a person with minimal
>> >> >>>>> education and no skills is darn good money... how much would you pay
>> >> >>>>> for someone to sweep your floors, dust your shelves, and retrieve
>> >> >>>>> shopping carts...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I pay my housecleaner about $40 per hour.

ABOUT? You don't know?
Probably a typo, you meant about $4 per hour.

>> >> If I were paid $40/hr to clean a house I'd bust my butt to make it
>> >> spotless, I'd even work overtime for straight pay; I'd launder
>> >> clothes, detail your car, scrub bathrooms, I'd even clean your cat's
>> >> litter pans and cook for you too, same as everything I do at home, for
>> >> $40/hr I'd mow your lawn and trim m'lady's bush! LOL
>> >> Around here people get paid between $10-$15 an hour to clean house.
>> >
>> >Prices for everything are much higher here, including housecleaning.
>> >The average price per square foot of single-family housing in Ann Arbor
>> >is $180. How does that compare with your area?
>>
>> That's ludicrous, the price of real estate has absolutely nothing to
>> do with the pay rate for house cleaning.
>
>The price of real estate is a reflection of the cost of living, which
>is an indicator of wages.

For skilled labor yes, for unskilled labor no. You're only
considering your little plastic microcosm world of cookie cutter
housing. Where I live lots of folks live on very expenssive real
estate yet wouldn't pay more for a house cleaner than if they lived in
an inner city slum apt. Farm folks are extremely frugal, they could
be breeding race horses on a $20,000,000.00 property consisting of a
few hundred acres and they would never pay $40/hr for someone to clean
their terlits, they wouldn't pay $40/hr for someone to muck horseshit
from their stables either... they have no need to impress people by
boasting how much they pay their house cleaner... how gauche. Folks
with absurd tales about how they pay $40/hr for someone to clean
their house very likely doesn't have a house cleaner, most likely they
don't have a house, they live in a one room basement hovel in the
sleaziest part of town... in fact they clean houses for $10/hr and
dream about how they're worth $40/hr.

>> I can assure you the price
>> of real estate in NY is substantially higher than in MI... why would
>> anyone want to move to MI anyway, there's nothing there but a lot of
>> desolate nothingness... I wouldn't live in MI if someone gave me a
>> house for free including a house cleaner... she'd need to have the
>> most magnificent mammaries to attract me to live in that wilderness.
>
>Good. We don't want you here. You're far too provincial.
>Cindy Hamilton

Hah! The most provincial are those who make outragiously exaggerated
claims about that which they'll never need to prove, ie. "I cook
everything from scratch"... if only they bathed occasionally they'd
not need to constantly scratch their infested behinds. Next you are
going to claim how you give your house cleaner a paid lunch hour and
to help herself to your White Gold caviar:
http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/at...sive-food.html

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 7:34:38 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>> cshenk wrote:
>>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> She doesn't work 40 hours a week at housecleaning. I believe
>>> her other job is as a waitress.
>>
>> A waitress can make a ton of money per hour or very little.
>> That depends on the restaurant.
>
> Small-town diner. Small tips, hard work.
>
>>>> If it helps, it's 8$ an hour here.
>>>
>>> Nobody's going to come to my house for $16 or $24 every other
>>> week to clean the whole house.
>>
>> Carol is wrong there. I live in her city and work for many people
>> that hire house cleaners. Some come once a week, other situations
>> they come 2-3 times a week.
>>
>> None that I know work for $8/hour.
>
> I'd bet that people who work for Molly Maid and similar corporate
> services make pretty little. Yep. A little googling suggests
> $7.47 for maids and $11.47 for team leaders.

So why are you grossly over-paying?

>> I generally see about $50 cash left on the counter for their person to
>> come and spend 2-3 hours.
>
> I really don't mind paying top dollar for a service that I value highly.

When you can get it for 70% less...why?

> When I retire, I'll probably have to get used to cleaning my own house.

Oh no!

> It'll give me something to do--cleaning up after my husband as he thrashes
> the place. We call him Captain Chaos. Of course, chaos breeds creativity.
> Or maybe the other way around.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
The only thing its bred thus far is an entitlement class.


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Gary wrote:
> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> One of my friends from high school worked all his life as a
>> window washer in NYC, he did sky scrapers, he made a good living but
>> he never made $40 an hour.
> I wouldn't do that job for $400 an hour. arrghhh! Well, ok...maybe
> that price might entice me to give it a try but certainly not for even
> $40/hour.

But this is not about YOU Gary, capisce?
>
> The Golden Gate Bridge has full time painters. I wonder what they get
> paid. Not that I would ever do that either.
>

So what?

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Gary wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 2015-12-30 22:29, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> I often contract or buy services of labor. I can get unskilled temp
>>> workers for $13 but skilled workers range from $60 to $110 per hour plus
>>> travel time.
>>>
>>> I know people that think they are worth $20 to $50 salary but don't want
>>> to pay more than minimum wage if they hire anyone to work for them.
>>
>> We hired a local handyman to to do some work on our kitchen last year.
>> He had to do some repairs to the ceiling and then prime and paint it,
>> and he did some carpentry work and replaced some ceramic tiles. He
>> worked from 9-4:30 and charged $125 per day. He did excellent work. I
>> will gladly hire him again and have no problems recommending him to
>> friends.
>
> This is your "underground economy" at work. That fellow is not
> running a business or paying taxes on that pay. He's probably retired
> and just after some extra pocket cash. You either pay him in cash or
> if by check, he cashes it and says nothing.
>
> No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
>
Of course they can!

Ever see a hot dog stand?

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On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:16:31 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>
>The Golden Gate Bridge has full time painters. I wonder what they get
>paid. Not that I would ever do that either.

I have a photo of my step daughter and her friend on top of one of the
GG towers. You take an elevator most of the way up and then climb. I
enjoy looking at the photo but I can't even imagine being there. It's
not for me.
Janet US

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-12-31 9:12 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> I'd bet that people who work for Molly Maid and similar corporate
>> services make pretty little. Yep. A little googling suggests
>> $7.47 for maids and $11.47 for team leaders.
>>
> My wife had considered hiring Molly Maid to do our house. I objected
> because I did not trust them. My wife protested that they were all
> bonded. I said I was more concerned about their contacts than the
> cleaners themselves. She dropped that objection a day or two later when
> she saw a Molly Maid car with two workers and two very sleazy looking
> guys with them.
>

Ah bigotry, a constant in your home...

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On 2015-12-31 9:22 AM, Gary wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 2015-12-30 22:29, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> I often contract or buy services of labor. I can get unskilled temp
>>> workers for $13 but skilled workers range from $60 to $110 per hour plus
>>> travel time.
>>>
>>> I know people that think they are worth $20 to $50 salary but don't want
>>> to pay more than minimum wage if they hire anyone to work for them.
>>
>> We hired a local handyman to to do some work on our kitchen last year.
>> He had to do some repairs to the ceiling and then prime and paint it,
>> and he did some carpentry work and replaced some ceramic tiles. He
>> worked from 9-4:30 and charged $125 per day. He did excellent work. I
>> will gladly hire him again and have no problems recommending him to
>> friends.
>
> This is your "underground economy" at work. That fellow is not
> running a business or paying taxes on that pay. He's probably retired
> and just after some extra pocket cash. You either pay him in cash or
> if by check, he cashes it and says nothing.
>
> No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
>


I paid by the bill by cheque and it included HST.

Dave Smith wrote:
> I had a paper route for years. Collecting.... weekly... was almost as
> much work as delivery, and


Washerwoman time again...

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In article >, gravesend10
@verizon.net says...
>
> Gary wrote:
> >Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> cshenk wrote:
> >> > Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >> She doesn't work 40 hours a week at housecleaning. I believe
> >> her other job is as a waitress.
> >
> >A waitress can make a ton of money per hour or very little.
> >That depends on the restaurant.
> >
> >> > If it helps, it's 8$ an hour here.
> >>
> >> Nobody's going to come to my house for $16 or $24 every other
> >> week to clean the whole house.
> >
> >Carol is wrong there. I live in her city and work for many people
> >that hire house cleaners. Some come once a week, other situations
> >they come 2-3 times a week.
> >
> >None that I know work for $8/hour.
> >
> >I generally see about $50 cash left on the counter for their person to
> >come and spend 2-3 hours.
>
> How do you know that $50 is for 2-3 hours work, are you assuming or do
> you actually know. From what I know from people who clean houses they
> wouldn't take a 2-3 hour job, that cuts into their day so they
> couldn't give someone a full eight hours and they are not going to
> travel for a couple three hours work.... and besides one can't do much
> cleaning in 2-3 hours,

? it doesn't take 8 hours to clean a well run modern home.

I clean my own
> house and I know it takes me six hours just to vacuum, and I don't
> have any carpeting,

what were you doing, snorting up dust like cocaine?


> I was believing your story until I read about the $50 cash out on the
> counter. What nincompoop would "generally" leave $50 cash out on a
> counter where anyone could pick it up,

eh? someone who knows exactly who has access to her house. I invariably
left the cleaner's pay in the house for her to pick up.


Janet UK

wrote:
> my son had a paper route and that's what he said,
> the worst was one of the highest paid criminal lawyers.

Canuckistan's barristers...tsk...

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On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:

> Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > On 2015-12-30 22:29, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > >
> > > I often contract or buy services of labor. I can get unskilled temp
> > > workers for $13 but skilled workers range from $60 to $110 per hour plus
> > > travel time.
> > >
> > > I know people that think they are worth $20 to $50 salary but don't want
> > > to pay more than minimum wage if they hire anyone to work for them.
> >
> > We hired a local handyman to to do some work on our kitchen last year.
> > He had to do some repairs to the ceiling and then prime and paint it,
> > and he did some carpentry work and replaced some ceramic tiles. He
> > worked from 9-4:30 and charged $125 per day. He did excellent work. I
> > will gladly hire him again and have no problems recommending him to
> > friends.
>
> This is your "underground economy" at work. That fellow is not
> running a business or paying taxes on that pay. He's probably retired
> and just after some extra pocket cash. You either pay him in cash or
> if by check, he cashes it and says nothing.
>
> No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.

Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than couch
surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?

--

sf

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:16:31 -0500, Gary > wrote:

> The Golden Gate Bridge has full time painters. I wonder what they get
> paid. Not that I would ever do that either.

My niece's husband was a painter on the GG bridge for years. Union
job, good benefits. I never asked what he made, so I can't help you
with that - but it's one of those jobs people like if they aren't
afraid of heights.

--

sf

On 12/31/2015 4:03 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Any guy leaving their stay at home wife at home day after day would be
> wise to do a DNA on the kids he's paying for, odds are they are not
> his. In the '50s,'60s '70s there was no DNA, but now a guy has no
> excuse for not checking if that kid he's supporting is his. I'd bet
> with better than 50% of kids you're not the baby daddy. There were an
> awful lot of kids born to married women in Brooklyn in the '50s that
> were mine.

Yeah, right. Happy New Year!

Jill

Brooklyn1 wrote:
> There were an
> awful lot of kids born to married women in Brooklyn in the '50s that
> were mine.

Interesting boast, think anyone is buying it?
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Sqwertz wrote:
> <snip rest unread - did it get any better?>
>
> -sw

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Why do you even bother posting if that's all you have to say? We've
heard the same thing at least 2,000 times by now."

-sw

"OK, so it's your planet so I guess you get to define what all teens on
Planet Bove eat. We'll need to add this to the Planet Bove Wikipedia
entry: "Teenagers on Planet Bove only eat chicken strips, fries, and
baby carrots".

-sw

"Incredible. And you STILL don't shut up."

-sw

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On 2015-12-31 1:52 PM, wrote:

>> I live in a rural area. We had a paperboy when we first moved here.
>> When they paperboy went away to school there was no replacement. A few
>> years ago I subscribed to another paper. It is delivered by car to my
>> mailbox and I pay monthly by credit card.
>>>
>
> That takes me back, my son had a paper route and that's what he said,
> the worst was one of the highest paid criminal lawyers.
>


What a coincidence. My very worst customer to collect from was a
criminal lawyer. He had the biggest house and the nicest cars, but they
never had money to pay for the paper, and then when it got up to 4-5
weeks they would dispute it. They also never tipped. Being right next to
the corner where the papers were dropped, they always got their paper
first.

On 2015-12-31 9:16 AM, Gary wrote:

> The Golden Gate Bridge has full time painters. I wonder what they get
> paid. Not that I would ever do that either.
>


How do they find it? Our first night in San Fransisco we got lost and
almost ended up on the Golden Gate bridge but managed to get off at the
last exit before the bridge and found our way back to out hotel with a
lot of luck. We went back twice to look at the bridge and it was so
fogged in that we never did get to see it.

On 2015-12-31, Dave Smith > wrote:

> On 2015-12-31 9:16 AM, Gary wrote:

>> I wonder what they get paid.

A little over $50 hr plus bennies.

> How do they find it?

Go north on Van Ness, turn left on Lombard, follow signs to GGB.

nb

On 12/24/2015 10:16 PM, MaryL wrote:

> I was lucky. I went grocery shopping at about 3:00 today and did not
> have any trouble. I even found one handicapped parking spot right in
> front of the store. I was concerned about that because I cannot walk
> very far. In the "unlucky" department, my freezer malfunctioned a few
> days ago, and the new freezer was delivered yesterday. That's the
> reason I needed to do more shopping than usual--I lost everything in the
> freezer, and that was a *lot* of food. Ouch!

A late response, bummer about the lost food. Is it worth filing an
insurance claim?
--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

On 12/25/2015 9:42 AM, Gary wrote:

> Here's a minor benefit of renting. About 20 years ago, my fridge died
> around 11PM on a Saturday night. I called the emergency maintainence
> number and I had a brand new fridge by 2am. They just happened to have
> some new ones in storage. whew~

I can remember thinking that after purchasing my current house because
I'd always rented before this, other than when I was married. When the
heat pump went less than a year after buying I had a little buyer's
remorse when I had to pony up that money. I guess I've gotten used to
budgeting in repairs now.

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
> > Dave Smith wrote:
> > >
> > > On 2015-12-30 22:29, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I often contract or buy services of labor. I can get unskilled
> > > > temp workers for $13 but skilled workers range from $60 to $110
> > > > per hour plus travel time.
> > > >
> > > > I know people that think they are worth $20 to $50 salary but
> > > > don't want to pay more than minimum wage if they hire anyone to
> > > > work for them.
> > >
> > > We hired a local handyman to to do some work on our kitchen last
> > > year. He had to do some repairs to the ceiling and then prime
> > > and paint it, and he did some carpentry work and replaced some
> > > ceramic tiles. He worked from 9-4:30 and charged $125 per day.
> > > He did excellent work. I will gladly hire him again and have no
> > > problems recommending him to friends.
> >
> > This is your "underground economy" at work. That fellow is not
> > running a business or paying taxes on that pay. He's probably
> > retired and just after some extra pocket cash. You either pay him
> > in cash or if by check, he cashes it and says nothing.
> >
> > No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
>
> Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than couch
> surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?

Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but with a
spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income levels.

--

Ed Pawlowski wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 12/30/2015 7:07 PM, cshenk wrote:
>
> >
> > 40$ an hour at 40 hours a week is 83,200$ a year before tax.
> >
> > If it helps, it's 8$ an hour here.
> >
>
> I was ready to hire someone at $13 but she starts a full time job for
> a school next week. I thought is was very cheap at that rate.

It varies on area. Here, I don't have 8$ an hour to spare up but there
are plenty of military spouses who need a bit over minumum wage but
also need to work the hours on their own around other things.

--

Gary wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > cshenk wrote:
> > > Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > She doesn't work 40 hours a week at housecleaning. I believe
> > her other job is as a waitress.
>
> A waitress can make a ton of money per hour or very little.
> That depends on the restaurant.
>
> > > If it helps, it's 8$ an hour here.
> >
> > Nobody's going to come to my house for $16 or $24 every other
> > week to clean the whole house.
>
> Carol is wrong there. I live in her city and work for many people
> that hire house cleaners. Some come once a week, other situations
> they come 2-3 times a week.
>
> None that I know work for $8/hour.
>
> I generally see about $50 cash left on the counter for their person
> to come and spend 2-3 hours.

Grin, you don't know who to hire then.



--

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:10:33 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:

> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
> >
> > Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than couch
> > surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?
>
> Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but with a
> spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income levels.

$32k is barely making it here or any urban area AFAIC.

--

sf

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 11:33:53 AM UTC-5, Lucha Libre! wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > Nobody's going to come to my house for $16 or $24 every other
> > week to clean the whole house.
> >
>
> Uh, has the minimum wage been jacked to infinity and beyond in Ann Arbor?
>
> Please...

No, it hasn't.

Here's some data:

<https://annarbor.craigslist.org/hss/5382859744.html>

I have three bedrooms, one bath. This cleaner would charge
me $110. The $80 that I pay is a bargain.

Not many cleaners quote their rates online. Guy at work
pays more than I do, but he's got a bigger house.

Cindy Hamilton

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 11:47:18 AM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> ABOUT? You don't know?
> Probably a typo, you meant about $4 per hour.

I pay her $80 to clean the house. It might take her two hours. It
might take her three. I just don't know. I'm at work when she comes to clean.
The house is clean when I come home; that's all I care about.

> For skilled labor yes, for unskilled labor no. You're only
> considering your little plastic microcosm world of cookie cutter
> housing.

My house was owner-built in 1948 by a stonemason for his own family.

> Where I live lots of folks live on very expenssive real
> estate yet wouldn't pay more for a house cleaner than if they lived in
> an inner city slum apt. Farm folks are extremely frugal, they could

I'm not "farm folks". I'm part of the tech/professional class, and I
choose to spend my money so that I don't have to spend my time cleaning
my house.

> be breeding race horses on a $20,000,000.00 property consisting of a
> few hundred acres and they would never pay $40/hr for someone to clean
> their terlits, they wouldn't pay $40/hr for someone to muck horseshit
> from their stables either... they have no need to impress people by
> boasting how much they pay their house cleaner... how gauche.

I wasn't boasting. If I recall correctly, I mentioned the rate that I
pay my maid because someone (you, probably) said that without skills it's
impossible to get well-paying work.

> Folks
> with absurd tales about how they pay $40/hr for someone to clean
> their house very likely doesn't have a house cleaner, most likely they
> don't have a house, they live in a one room basement hovel in the
> sleaziest part of town... in fact they clean houses for $10/hr and
> dream about how they're worth $40/hr.

Only a liar constantly accuses others of lying.

Cindy Hamilton

Janet B wrote:
>
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:16:31 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
> >
> >The Golden Gate Bridge has full time painters. I wonder what they get
> >paid. Not that I would ever do that either.
>
> I have a photo of my step daughter and her friend on top of one of the
> GG towers. You take an elevator most of the way up and then climb. I
> enjoy looking at the photo but I can't even imagine being there. It's
> not for me.

That would be a fun "tourist" thing to do. My step daughter lives in
Oakland. If I ever make it out there for a visit, I would like to do
just that.

I have been to the top of the Washington Monument (boring) and also
the top of the Cape Hatteras, NC lighthouse before they moved it
inland a bit.

On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 10:27:56 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>Janet B wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:16:31 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >The Golden Gate Bridge has full time painters. I wonder what they get
>> >paid. Not that I would ever do that either.
>>
>> I have a photo of my step daughter and her friend on top of one of the
>> GG towers. You take an elevator most of the way up and then climb. I
>> enjoy looking at the photo but I can't even imagine being there. It's
>> not for me.
>
>That would be a fun "tourist" thing to do. My step daughter lives in
>Oakland. If I ever make it out there for a visit, I would like to do
>just that.
>
snip
You have to know someone to be able to go to the top. In this case,
her friend knew a maintenance supervisor.
It's pretty windy up there.
Janet US

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 11:33:53 AM UTC-5, Lucha Libre! wrote:
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> Nobody's going to come to my house for $16 or $24 every other
>>> week to clean the whole house.
>>>
>>
>> Uh, has the minimum wage been jacked to infinity and beyond in Ann Arbor?
>>
>> Please...
>
> No, it hasn't.
>
> Here's some data:
>
> <https://annarbor.craigslist.org/hss/5382859744.html>
>
> I have three bedrooms, one bath. This cleaner would charge
> me $110. The $80 that I pay is a bargain.

You're living in a reality distortion bubble.

http://www.homeadvisor.com/c.Cleanin...MI.-12014.html


>
> Not many cleaners quote their rates online.

So?

> Guy at work
> pays more than I do, but he's got a bigger house.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

You're both getting ripped off.


--
http://culturacolectiva.com/wp-conte...e-affiche1.jpg

sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:10:33 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> > sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >
> > > On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
> > >
> > > Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than
> > > couch surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?
> >
> > Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but with a
> > spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income levels.
>
> $32k is barely making it here or any urban area AFAIC.

It's not a whole lot in some areas but note I included a working spouse
making about the same. That would then be 65K combined income. I
believe technically that puts them into 'middle income' today?

Carol

--

On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 11:28:09 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:

> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:10:33 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >
> > > sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
> > > >
> > > > Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than
> > > > couch surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?
> > >
> > > Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but with a
> > > spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income levels.
> >
> > $32k is barely making it here or any urban area AFAIC.
>
> It's not a whole lot in some areas but note I included a working spouse
> making about the same. That would then be 65K combined income. I
> believe technically that puts them into 'middle income' today?
>
Laughingly called "middle" income.

--

sf

Cindy Hamilton wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 11:33:53 AM UTC-5, Lucha Libre!
> wrote:
> > Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > Nobody's going to come to my house for $16 or $24 every other
> > > week to clean the whole house.
> > >
> >
> > Uh, has the minimum wage been jacked to infinity and beyond in Ann
> > Arbor?
> >
> > Please...
>
> No, it hasn't.
>
> Here's some data:
>
> <https://annarbor.craigslist.org/hss/5382859744.html>
>
> I have three bedrooms, one bath. This cleaner would charge
> me $110. The $80 that I pay is a bargain.
>
> Not many cleaners quote their rates online. Guy at work
> pays more than I do, but he's got a bigger house.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Ok. Might be reasonable for there. Here we have a huge pool of
military spouses with the other spouse randomly deployed for months on
end. It's common to see 3-4 band together with one watching kids while
the other 2 do simple cleaning nearby. We used a set for move out/move
in cleaning around our Japan years. We paid 9$ an hour each for move
out because the gear and supplies were gone or shipped and on return we
paid 7$ an hour per person and provided all supplies.

You just have to know who to ask in a given area and they will all be
different.

Yard care works like that here too. If you get a couple of neighbors
in a row (or really near by) you can get a guy or gal to cut the grass
once a week for 20$ but then these are small yards and we aren't
talking trimming work and the grass is let lay as natural mulch. Price
goes up if they have to travel between sites.

Ohh, memory lane. 1997-2000. Lady with a riding lawnmower. Lived on
the street behind me. 10$ for the average yard (front and back) and no
bitching about not being able to handle any close work to trees or
unlevel spots and such. 8am Saturday she'd be at the corner lot of my
street and you'd go down to get on the list. 20-30 minutes per house.
If you had a gas can and she needed some, you'd get current price off
your cutting. All cash. Would work out as 20-25$ an hour. Sadly, they
made a military move elsewhere.

--

sf wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 11:28:09 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:10:33 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
>>>>>
>>>>> Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than
>>>>> couch surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?
>>>>
>>>> Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but with a
>>>> spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income levels.
>>>
>>> $32k is barely making it here or any urban area AFAIC.
>>
>> It's not a whole lot in some areas but note I included a working spouse
>> making about the same. That would then be 65K combined income. I
>> believe technically that puts them into 'middle income' today?
>>
> Laughingly called "middle" income.
>

Thanks to NAFTA and the "giant sucking sound" and China.

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http://culturacolectiva.com/wp-conte...e-affiche1.jpg

On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 12:24:57 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:

snip
>
>Yard care works like that here too. If you get a couple of neighbors
>in a row (or really near by) you can get a guy or gal to cut the grass
>once a week for 20$ but then these are small yards and we aren't
>talking trimming work and the grass is let lay as natural mulch. Price
>goes up if they have to travel between sites.
>

snip
Yeah, and they are not reporting their income either. So there goes
tax money to support programs that are needed. Plus, by looking for
the cheapest labor you are forcing others to work for less in order to
be able to live and get work. Again less taxes paid. Then the
conservatives complain about all the fat asses that sit around and
collect government support when in actual fact people can't make
enough money to be able to afford to go out and work.
Janet US

Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 12:24:57 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> snip
>>
>> Yard care works like that here too. If you get a couple of neighbors
>> in a row (or really near by) you can get a guy or gal to cut the grass
>> once a week for 20$ but then these are small yards and we aren't
>> talking trimming work and the grass is let lay as natural mulch. Price
>> goes up if they have to travel between sites.
>>
>
> snip
> Yeah, and they are not reporting their income either.

Oh boo hoo.

> So there goes
> tax money to support programs that are needed.

Taxatious liberals DEMAND income for theor spending!

> Plus, by looking for
> the cheapest labor you are forcing others to work for less in order to
> be able to live and get work.

WTF?

Are you for real???

No one is "forcing" a single thing, it's all about choice.

> Again less taxes paid.

Taxatiuous liberals whine like babies when their confiscation is
impinged upon.

> Then the
> conservatives complain about all the fat asses that sit around and
> collect government support when in actual fact people can't make
> enough money to be able to afford to go out and work.
> Janet US
>

Utter delusional BULLSHIT!


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http://culturacolectiva.com/wp-conte...e-affiche1.jpg

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 11:31:18 -0700, Lucha Libre! > wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 11:28:09 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >
> >> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:10:33 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than
> >>>>> couch surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?
> >>>>
> >>>> Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but with a
> >>>> spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income levels.
> >>>
> >>> $32k is barely making it here or any urban area AFAIC.
> >>
> >> It's not a whole lot in some areas but note I included a working spouse
> >> making about the same. That would then be 65K combined income. I
> >> believe technically that puts them into 'middle income' today?
> >>
> > Laughingly called "middle" income.
> >
>
> Thanks to NAFTA and the "giant sucking sound" and China.

We can agree on that point.

--

sf

sf wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 11:31:18 -0700, Lucha Libre! > wrote:
>
>> sf wrote:
>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 11:28:09 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:10:33 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than
>>>>>>> couch surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but with a
>>>>>> spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income levels.
>>>>>
>>>>> $32k is barely making it here or any urban area AFAIC.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a whole lot in some areas but note I included a working spouse
>>>> making about the same. That would then be 65K combined income. I
>>>> believe technically that puts them into 'middle income' today?
>>>>
>>> Laughingly called "middle" income.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks to NAFTA and the "giant sucking sound" and China.
>
> We can agree on that point.
>
Damned straight!

--
http://culturacolectiva.com/wp-conte...e-affiche1.jpg

sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 11:28:09 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> > sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >
> > > On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:10:33 -0600, "cshenk" >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
> > > > >
> > > > > Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than
> > > > > couch surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban
> > > > > area?
> > > >
> > > > Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but
> > > > with a spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income
> > > > levels.
> > >
> > > $32k is barely making it here or any urban area AFAIC.
> >
> > It's not a whole lot in some areas but note I included a working
> > spouse making about the same. That would then be 65K combined
> > income. I believe technically that puts them into 'middle income'
> > today?
> >
> Laughingly called "middle" income.

True, but it's also where a lot of subsidized things cut out. Free
college aide is one of them which ends up in huge student loans. If
you are putting a kid through college who lives at home, you don't get
much you can claim as a dependent either.

Carol

--

On 1/1/2016 4:13 AM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:10:33 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
>>>
>>> Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than couch
>>> surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?
>>
>> Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but with a
>> spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income levels.
>
> $32k is barely making it here or any urban area AFAIC.
>

It is not living large anywhere, but in some locations you could get by,
have a modest used car. It is not like the wages for average factory
workers in the 1950s where you could buy a house and raise a couple of
kids on one income.

It also show that you need some education and skills to do well and make
$25 and up.

The push for the $15 minimum is just going to be inflationary. The
person now making $15 will want $20 because he has more skill, the guy
now making $20 will want $25 etc. The $4 loaf of bread will be $10.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/1/2016 4:13 AM, sf wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:10:33 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>>> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:22:15 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No real business can survive on $125 per day gross income.
>>>>
>>>> Forget the business. How can a single person can do more than couch
>>>> surf at that rate, when they live in or near an urban area?
>>>
>>> Umm, it's 15$ an hour. Granted it's only 32.5K a year, but with a
>>> spouse working, puts you pretty much into middle income levels.
>>
>> $32k is barely making it here or any urban area AFAIC.
>>
>
> It is not living large anywhere, but in some locations you could get by,
> have a modest used car. It is not like the wages for average factory
> workers in the 1950s where you could buy a house and raise a couple of
> kids on one income.
>
> It also show that you need some education and skills to do well and make
> $25 and up.
>
> The push for the $15 minimum is just going to be inflationary. The
> person now making $15 will want $20 because he has more skill, the guy
> now making $20 will want $25 etc. The $4 loaf of bread will be $10.

It's called a multiplier effect, it passes through every good and
service to the point where there are more dollars in circulation but NOT
more purchasing power.

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