On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 15:33:45 -0700, graham > wrote:

>On 09/01/2016 1:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 1/9/2016 2:52 PM, graham wrote:
>>
>>>>> I use Quicken. Easy, accurate, always know what is available. Buy it
>>>>> once for the cost of a bounced check.
>>>>
>>>> Me too. I get my statements from the bank via Internet. So easy to
>>>> balance checkbook.
>>>> Janet US
>>>>
>>> I do all my accounting for my consultancy by hand in a 36 column book.
>>> That way I can see where everything goes and mistakes are easy to find
>>> and correct.
>>> Graham
>>
>> I don't knock what works for you. Owner of my company does it similar
>> and he knows where every penny is.
>>
>> With Quicken each of those columns would be a category. You can bring
>> up simple reports for any period and combination at any time too.
>
>I tried accounting software some years ago (I can't remember the brand)
>and I couldn't see where things were being posted. Also, it was heavily
>biased towards a retail operation. It doesn't take me long to do my
>quarterly sales-tax returns and my accountant can see all my workings at
>year end.
>I *would* prefer to use accounting software but am more comfortable
>doing it the old fashioned way and soon, it won't matter as I think I
>might finally have to retire. With the downturn in the oil industry, my
>projections for work this year barely cover my fixed overheads.
>Graham

the software for Quickbooks has improved a lot over the years. You
can get your numbers any which way you want them. You create your own
chart of accounts. I still think Quicken is kinda lame. I don't need
a pie chart to figure things out.
Janet US

On 1/9/2016 5:18 PM, Nancy Young wrote:

>> Yes, it is amazing. In 50+ years on my own I may have bounced 2 checks
>> from a math error or was late with a bill payment. Math error or
>> whatever can happen, but for some, it is every month.
>
> It's happened to me. When you have two people using the checkbook
> and they both have ATM cards and can forget to write things down,
> it's bound to occur. I'm sure not perfect.
>
> But the fee was so painful, it hardly ever happened. People who
> bounce checks are mostly people who really cannot afford those fees.

I just checked my bank and the fee for a bounce is $37. Maximum of 5 in
a day though since they have a big heart.


>
> I've heard people say they only have $30,000 in credit card debt.
> Ack. I haven't led the perfect financial life and have made many
> mistakes, but I knew when to stop digging that hole.
>
> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
>
> nancy
>

I cannot imagine that much. Years ago I had some debt but I looked at
the interest charge and worked hard to get rid of it. Interest on a CC
is just throwing money away. Sure, it is handy to spread a big sudden
charge over a few months, but it is not a way of life. Same as people
that use their home equity like and ATM and got sunk when things went
sour a few years back.

On 1/9/2016 8:14 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/9/2016 5:18 PM, Nancy Young wrote:

>> But the fee was so painful, it hardly ever happened. People who
>> bounce checks are mostly people who really cannot afford those fees.
>
> I just checked my bank and the fee for a bounce is $37. Maximum of 5 in
> a day though since they have a big heart.

Yikes. And they arrange it so you get hit with the maximum number
of insufficient funds. I don't know if that is still legal.

>> I've heard people say they only have $30,000 in credit card debt.
>> Ack. I haven't led the perfect financial life and have made many
>> mistakes, but I knew when to stop digging that hole.
>>
>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.

> I cannot imagine that much. Years ago I had some debt but I looked at
> the interest charge and worked hard to get rid of it. Interest on a CC
> is just throwing money away.

It's like being on a treadmill, you never seem to get ahead of it.
Some people wind up like that because of some awful thing, but most
people it's just from buying stuff.

> Sure, it is handy to spread a big sudden
> charge over a few months, but it is not a way of life. Same as people
> that use their home equity like and ATM and got sunk when things went
> sour a few years back.

I think some people just thought that was normal, it seemed to
be encouraged everywhere you looked. There was even a tv show
about fixing up your house so you improved the value so you could
borrow more against it.

Mind boggling.

nancy

On 10/01/2016 3:58 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 10:46:47 AM UTC-6, Cheri wrote:
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Cheri" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>>> news >>>>
>>>>> The payment comes directly out of your checking account. I said I
>>>>> don't use one and nothing I've seen here has convinced me that I need
>>>>> to start now.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> sf
>>>>
>>>> Not so long ago, a month or so, Safeway was hit hard in the Bay Area with
>>>> ATM card info theft which gave the thieves access to bank accounts,
>>>> that's
>>>> a good enough reason, and also...no rewards. I only use my ATM at the
>>>> bank.
>>>
>>> Some thugs here didn't bother with info, they rammed the ATM machine and
>>> took the whole machine ..
>>>
>>> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-1...loader/6763812
>>
>> Geez! Nothing is safe these days.
>>
>> Cheri
>
> Well, there's cash MONEY in them ATMs!
>
> John Kuthe...
>
Indeed there is! I've probably even used that particular ATM in the dark
dim past. Used to get fuel there occasionally.

--

Xeno

Xeno wrote:
> If you're brazen, it's amazing what you can get away with.
>
>
> --
>
> Xeno

But /brass/ balls are mandatory...

On 09/01/2016 5:11 PM, wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 15:33:45 -0700, graham > wrote:
>
>> On 09/01/2016 1:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2016 2:52 PM, graham wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I use Quicken. Easy, accurate, always know what is available. Buy it
>>>>>> once for the cost of a bounced check.
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too. I get my statements from the bank via Internet. So easy to
>>>>> balance checkbook.
>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>
>>>> I do all my accounting for my consultancy by hand in a 36 column book.
>>>> That way I can see where everything goes and mistakes are easy to find
>>>> and correct.
>>>> Graham
>>>
>>> I don't knock what works for you. Owner of my company does it similar
>>> and he knows where every penny is.
>>>
>>> With Quicken each of those columns would be a category. You can bring
>>> up simple reports for any period and combination at any time too.
>>
>> I tried accounting software some years ago (I can't remember the brand)
>> and I couldn't see where things were being posted. Also, it was heavily
>> biased towards a retail operation. It doesn't take me long to do my
>> quarterly sales-tax returns and my accountant can see all my workings at
>> year end.
>> I *would* prefer to use accounting software but am more comfortable
>> doing it the old fashioned way and soon, it won't matter as I think I
>> might finally have to retire. With the downturn in the oil industry, my
>> projections for work this year barely cover my fixed overheads.
>> Graham
>
> Sorry to hear that, so far, both my grandsons in Grande Prairie are
> still gainfully employed.
>
There has been a bloodbath in the oil industry except in one major
company where, to preserve jobs, everyone from the president down took a
paycut.
Graham

On 09/01/2016 9:34 PM, graham wrote:
> On 09/01/2016 5:11 PM, wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 15:33:45 -0700, graham > wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/01/2016 1:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/2016 2:52 PM, graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> I use Quicken. Easy, accurate, always know what is available.
>>>>>>> Buy it
>>>>>>> once for the cost of a bounced check.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Me too. I get my statements from the bank via Internet. So easy to
>>>>>> balance checkbook.
>>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>>
>>>>> I do all my accounting for my consultancy by hand in a 36 column book.
>>>>> That way I can see where everything goes and mistakes are easy to find
>>>>> and correct.
>>>>> Graham
>>>>
>>>> I don't knock what works for you. Owner of my company does it similar
>>>> and he knows where every penny is.
>>>>
>>>> With Quicken each of those columns would be a category. You can
>>>> bring
>>>> up simple reports for any period and combination at any time too.
>>>
>>> I tried accounting software some years ago (I can't remember the brand)
>>> and I couldn't see where things were being posted. Also, it was heavily
>>> biased towards a retail operation. It doesn't take me long to do my
>>> quarterly sales-tax returns and my accountant can see all my workings at
>>> year end.
>>> I *would* prefer to use accounting software but am more comfortable
>>> doing it the old fashioned way and soon, it won't matter as I think I
>>> might finally have to retire. With the downturn in the oil industry, my
>>> projections for work this year barely cover my fixed overheads.
>>> Graham
>>
>> Sorry to hear that, so far, both my grandsons in Grande Prairie are
>> still gainfully employed.
>>
> There has been a bloodbath in the oil industry except in one major
> company where, to preserve jobs, everyone from the president down took a
> paycut.
> Graham

I should also add that I am well past normal retirement age so the
decision to wind down has been brought forward. It has been *very*
difficult to adjust over the last year as most of the work was
intellectually stimulating. I hate the inactivity but if any work does
come in, I almost feel resentful at having to do it.
Graham

On 1/9/2016 11:34 PM, graham wrote:

>>
>> Sorry to hear that, so far, both my grandsons in Grande Prairie are
>> still gainfully employed.
>>
> There has been a bloodbath in the oil industry except in one major
> company where, to preserve jobs, everyone from the president down took a
> paycut.
> Graham

Good for them. Better to make a reduced wage than no wage.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/9/2016 11:34 PM, graham wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Sorry to hear that, so far, both my grandsons in Grande Prairie are
>>> still gainfully employed.
>>>
>> There has been a bloodbath in the oil industry except in one major
>> company where, to preserve jobs, everyone from the president down took a
>> paycut.
>> Graham
>
> Good for them. Better to make a reduced wage than no wage.
>
Live to drill another day...

Beats defaulting on the oinds.

On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 21:52:55 -0700, graham > wrote:

> I hate the inactivity but if any work does
> come in, I almost feel resentful at having to do it.

That's when you know it's time to move on.

--

sf

On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 21:52:55 -0700, graham > wrote:

>On 09/01/2016 9:34 PM, graham wrote:
>> On 09/01/2016 5:11 PM, wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 15:33:45 -0700, graham > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/01/2016 1:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>> On 1/9/2016 2:52 PM, graham wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I use Quicken. Easy, accurate, always know what is available.
>>>>>>>> Buy it
>>>>>>>> once for the cost of a bounced check.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Me too. I get my statements from the bank via Internet. So easy to
>>>>>>> balance checkbook.
>>>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do all my accounting for my consultancy by hand in a 36 column book.
>>>>>> That way I can see where everything goes and mistakes are easy to find
>>>>>> and correct.
>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't knock what works for you. Owner of my company does it similar
>>>>> and he knows where every penny is.
>>>>>
>>>>> With Quicken each of those columns would be a category. You can
>>>>> bring
>>>>> up simple reports for any period and combination at any time too.
>>>>
>>>> I tried accounting software some years ago (I can't remember the brand)
>>>> and I couldn't see where things were being posted. Also, it was heavily
>>>> biased towards a retail operation. It doesn't take me long to do my
>>>> quarterly sales-tax returns and my accountant can see all my workings at
>>>> year end.
>>>> I *would* prefer to use accounting software but am more comfortable
>>>> doing it the old fashioned way and soon, it won't matter as I think I
>>>> might finally have to retire. With the downturn in the oil industry, my
>>>> projections for work this year barely cover my fixed overheads.
>>>> Graham
>>>
>>> Sorry to hear that, so far, both my grandsons in Grande Prairie are
>>> still gainfully employed.
>>>
>> There has been a bloodbath in the oil industry except in one major
>> company where, to preserve jobs, everyone from the president down took a
>> paycut.
>> Graham
>
>I should also add that I am well past normal retirement age so the
>decision to wind down has been brought forward. It has been *very*
>difficult to adjust over the last year as most of the work was
>intellectually stimulating. I hate the inactivity but if any work does
>come in, I almost feel resentful at having to do it.
>Graham

Then it's time to retire! Just make sure you have an alternate
activity that you can indulge in so it takes up the slack.

On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-5, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 1/9/2016 2:13 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 1/9/2016 1:16 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> >> That's a good tool. I don't see them any more, but there used to
> >> be a number of shows where they'd try to fix people's finances.
> >> It's stunning to me how much people pay every month in bounced
> >> check fees and they don't seem to think it's a problem. The
> >> statistics bear it out, those fees make banks a ton of money.
>
> > Yes, it is amazing. In 50+ years on my own I may have bounced 2 checks
> > from a math error or was late with a bill payment. Math error or
> > whatever can happen, but for some, it is every month.
>
> It's happened to me. When you have two people using the checkbook
> and they both have ATM cards and can forget to write things down,
> it's bound to occur. I'm sure not perfect.
>
> But the fee was so painful, it hardly ever happened. People who
> bounce checks are mostly people who really cannot afford those fees.
>
> > I've also heard comments like "I don't know why they keep calling, they
> > always get paid eventually" That person's credit score was also in the
> > low 400's and she paid dearly for financing of a used car.
>
> I've heard people say they only have $30,000 in credit card debt.
> Ack. I haven't led the perfect financial life and have made many
> mistakes, but I knew when to stop digging that hole.
>
> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.

They need to teach personal finance in the home. That's what
my mother did.

Of course, that presupposes the parents aren't also foolish
with their money.

Cindy Hamilton

On 1/10/2016 9:04 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-5, Nancy Young wrote:

>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
>
> They need to teach personal finance in the home. That's what
> my mother did.

I can understand that position but it's a life skill everyone
needs to be at least aware of. Many people are like me, you learned
by example, not by anyone actually explaining budgeting or
investing. That can go either way, you learn what works or
you rebel and go in the opposite direction.

I doubt either of my parents had lessons in finance from their
parents, either. The Great Depression was their teacher.

> Of course, that presupposes the parents aren't also foolish
> with their money.

I can think of one set of kids in my family I sure hope learned
what NOT to do.

nancy

On 1/10/2016 10:11 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 1/10/2016 9:04 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-5, Nancy Young wrote:
>
>>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
>>
>> They need to teach personal finance in the home. That's what
>> my mother did.
>
> I can understand that position but it's a life skill everyone
> needs to be at least aware of. Many people are like me, you learned
> by example, not by anyone actually explaining budgeting or
> investing. That can go either way, you learn what works or
> you rebel and go in the opposite direction.
>
> I doubt either of my parents had lessons in finance from their
> parents, either. The Great Depression was their teacher.
>

At home I got the same lessons in finance as I did in sex education.
None. I figured out both through trial and error.

Looking back, I would have made some different decisions, saved more,
spent in different areas, etc. Too late now so I enjoy what we have and
I'm thankful I never made any really stupid mistakes and always earned a
decent living. I'm content.

On 1/10/2016 10:49 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/10/2016 10:11 AM, Nancy Young wrote:

>> I doubt either of my parents had lessons in finance from their
>> parents, either. The Great Depression was their teacher.
>>
>
> At home I got the same lessons in finance as I did in sex education.
> None. I figured out both through trial and error.

(laugh!) I typed, then deleted, a line about not getting The Talk,
either.

> Looking back, I would have made some different decisions, saved more,
> spent in different areas, etc. Too late now so I enjoy what we have and
> I'm thankful I never made any really stupid mistakes and always earned a
> decent living. I'm content.

Same here, I look back and think I would have a lot more money if I
didn't spend it on whatever, but hey, I enjoyed myself. I just made
sure to fund my 401K and let the rest fund what I wanted.

Perhaps a better scenario than my mother, who had to tot up her
assets for the estate lawyer and immediately wondered Why didn't we
travel more? Made me sad.

nancy

On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 10:49:21 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> At home I got the same lessons in finance as I did in sex education.
> None. I figured out both through trial and error.

It's called The School of Hard Knocks. Live and learn.
>
> Looking back, I would have made some different decisions, saved more,
> spent in different areas, etc. Too late now so I enjoy what we have and
> I'm thankful I never made any really stupid mistakes and always earned a
> decent living. I'm content.

20-20 hindsight. As I get older, my Grand Exit Plan includes not
being a burden to anyone. In the mean time, I'm doing what I want to
do and you probably are too.

--

sf

Nancy wrote
> >
> > They need to teach personal finance in the schools.

I went to an all-girls High school in a small rural town in England
in the late 50's early 60's, and that's exactly what they did. It was
rather unusual then and I don't think it's done now.

Disguised as the Arithmetic part of Maths, we were taught how to
budget household accounts, how to calculate simple and compound interest
on mortgage loans, how to fill in income tax returns, subtract every
possible tax-free allowance and calculate the tax due: and how to fill
in a cheque.

Of course,at the time we thought it was duller than dust :-)

Janet UK

In article >, says...
> > There has been a bloodbath in the oil industry except in one major
> > company where, to preserve jobs, everyone from the president down took a
> > paycut.
> > Graham
>
> I should also add that I am well past normal retirement age so the
> decision to wind down has been brought forward. It has been *very*
> difficult to adjust over the last year as most of the work was
> intellectually stimulating. I hate the inactivity but if any work does
> come in, I almost feel resentful at having to do it.
>

As the industry contracts you may find that companies still need your
level of skills and experience from time to time. When they no longer
have that expertise on the payroll, they have to bring in a private
consultant. Who can pick and choose short term advisory work and name
his price.

Janet UK

On 1/10/2016 1:21 PM, Janet wrote:
>
> Nancy wrote
>>>
>>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
>
> I went to an all-girls High school in a small rural town in England
> in the late 50's early 60's, and that's exactly what they did. It was
> rather unusual then and I don't think it's done now.

Just seems to me it's one of the most helpful skills you could
teach someone that will serve them well in life.

I had economics, of course, stocks and GNP, etc, this subject seems
like it would have been a natural extension.

> Disguised as the Arithmetic part of Maths, we were taught how to
> budget household accounts, how to calculate simple and compound interest
> on mortgage loans, how to fill in income tax returns, subtract every
> possible tax-free allowance and calculate the tax due: and how to fill
> in a cheque.

Awesome.

> Of course,at the time we thought it was duller than dust :-)

Right? I bet. But you remembered.

The best lesson I've heard anyone give was a friend of a friend
who taught high school in a low income area. The kids seemed to
think they wanted to just drop out. What will you do then? Get
a job at McDonald's, get an apartment and a car.

So she wrote her salary on the board. Her taxes. Her rent.
You get the idea. The students were shocked. That's what I call
a lesson.

nancy

On 11/01/2016 5:21 AM, Janet wrote:
>
> Nancy wrote
>>>
>>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
>
> I went to an all-girls High school in a small rural town in England
> in the late 50's early 60's, and that's exactly what they did. It was
> rather unusual then and I don't think it's done now.
>
> Disguised as the Arithmetic part of Maths, we were taught how to
> budget household accounts, how to calculate simple and compound interest
> on mortgage loans, how to fill in income tax returns, subtract every
> possible tax-free allowance and calculate the tax due: and how to fill
> in a cheque.
>
> Of course,at the time we thought it was duller than dust :-)
>
> Janet UK
>
Back in the 50s and 60s in rural Aust, girls were taught 'Home
Economics'. That included cooking, sewing and, as you've noted, family
budgeting, though not disguised within the maths subject. The boys, on
the other hand, did woodwork, metalwork, tech drawing and, in the case
of that particular school, agriculture. It was one of the few remaining
ag schools, after all.

These topics were electives but were taken up by all. I can only ever
remember one boy who took cooking and that was because he wanted to be a
chef. As it turned out, he became a baker instead and owns a number of
bakeries these days.

A couple of other electives were typing, which all the girls took, and
business principles, taken by both boys and girls. In later years, in
the era of computers, typing would be taken by both boys and girls.

In effect, personal finance, then, was taught as a discrete topic to the
girls and the boys received the training embedded into the topic of
business principles.

We may have had some 'home budgeting' in the maths topic but that would
have been more in the way of worked examples rather than as a discrete
sub-topic.

--

Xeno

On 11/01/2016 5:39 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article >, says...
>>> There has been a bloodbath in the oil industry except in one major
>>> company where, to preserve jobs, everyone from the president down took a
>>> paycut.
>>> Graham
>>
>> I should also add that I am well past normal retirement age so the
>> decision to wind down has been brought forward. It has been *very*
>> difficult to adjust over the last year as most of the work was
>> intellectually stimulating. I hate the inactivity but if any work does
>> come in, I almost feel resentful at having to do it.
>>
>
> As the industry contracts you may find that companies still need your
> level of skills and experience from time to time. When they no longer
> have that expertise on the payroll, they have to bring in a private
> consultant. Who can pick and choose short term advisory work and name
> his price.
>
> Janet UK
>
The various state governments here have been shedding staff at a great
rate of knots in recent years so there has been a great hollowing out of
the 'institutional knowledge'. That has led to many skilled people
earning 4 and 5 times their former incomes as consultants, particularly
where specialist skills such as engineering are involved.

--

Xeno

On 11/01/2016 6:45 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 1/10/2016 1:21 PM, Janet wrote:
>>
>> Nancy wrote
>>>>
>>>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
>>
>> I went to an all-girls High school in a small rural town in England
>> in the late 50's early 60's, and that's exactly what they did. It was
>> rather unusual then and I don't think it's done now.
>
> Just seems to me it's one of the most helpful skills you could
> teach someone that will serve them well in life.
>
> I had economics, of course, stocks and GNP, etc, this subject seems
> like it would have been a natural extension.
>
>> Disguised as the Arithmetic part of Maths, we were taught how to
>> budget household accounts, how to calculate simple and compound interest
>> on mortgage loans, how to fill in income tax returns, subtract every
>> possible tax-free allowance and calculate the tax due: and how to fill
>> in a cheque.
>
> Awesome.
>
>> Of course,at the time we thought it was duller than dust :-)
>
> Right? I bet. But you remembered.
>
> The best lesson I've heard anyone give was a friend of a friend
> who taught high school in a low income area. The kids seemed to
> think they wanted to just drop out. What will you do then? Get
> a job at McDonald's, get an apartment and a car.
>
> So she wrote her salary on the board. Her taxes. Her rent.
> You get the idea. The students were shocked. That's what I call
> a lesson.
>
> nancy
>
When you're a kid, a McDonalds job seems to pay a lot of money. Kids
don't think about all the paying out that they need to do.

The best teachers are those who can motivate their students to learn.

--

Xeno

In article >,
says...
>
> On 11/01/2016 5:21 AM, Janet wrote:
> >
> > Nancy wrote
> >>>
> >>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
> >
> > I went to an all-girls High school in a small rural town in England
> > in the late 50's early 60's, and that's exactly what they did. It was
> > rather unusual then and I don't think it's done now.
> >
> > Disguised as the Arithmetic part of Maths, we were taught how to
> > budget household accounts, how to calculate simple and compound interest
> > on mortgage loans, how to fill in income tax returns, subtract every
> > possible tax-free allowance and calculate the tax due: and how to fill
> > in a cheque.
> >
> > Of course,at the time we thought it was duller than dust :-)
> >
> > Janet UK
> >
> Back in the 50s and 60s in rural Aust, girls were taught 'Home
> Economics'. That included cooking, sewing and, as you've noted, family
> budgeting, though not disguised within the maths subject. The boys, on
> the other hand, did woodwork, metalwork, tech drawing and, in the case
> of that particular school, agriculture. It was one of the few remaining
> ag schools, after all.

We were taught cooking and how to sew (hand and machine) including all
kinds of seam; make clothes including fitting zips and making button
holes, darn, weave, knit, do macrame, and make fishing nets (even though
we were as far from the sea as its possible to be in England). Years
later I used my net-making skills to replace my sons' football goal
nets.

My husband at an all-boys school was taught tech drawing, woodwork and
metal work;he learned machine-sewing at home from tailor granny and
still repairs his own trousers, fits new pockets etc.

When my sons were in co-ed school, boys AND girls were all taught
woodwork, metalwork, cooking, knitting and hand and machine sewing.

Janet.

"Janet" > wrote in message
.. .
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> On 11/01/2016 5:21 AM, Janet wrote:
>> >
>> > Nancy wrote
>> >>>
>> >>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
>> >
>> > I went to an all-girls High school in a small rural town in England
>> > in the late 50's early 60's, and that's exactly what they did. It was
>> > rather unusual then and I don't think it's done now.
>> >
>> > Disguised as the Arithmetic part of Maths, we were taught how to
>> > budget household accounts, how to calculate simple and compound
>> > interest
>> > on mortgage loans, how to fill in income tax returns, subtract every
>> > possible tax-free allowance and calculate the tax due: and how to fill
>> > in a cheque.
>> >
>> > Of course,at the time we thought it was duller than dust :-)
>> >
>> > Janet UK
>> >
>> Back in the 50s and 60s in rural Aust, girls were taught 'Home
>> Economics'. That included cooking, sewing and, as you've noted, family
>> budgeting, though not disguised within the maths subject. The boys, on
>> the other hand, did woodwork, metalwork, tech drawing and, in the case
>> of that particular school, agriculture. It was one of the few remaining
>> ag schools, after all.
>
> We were taught cooking and how to sew (hand and machine) including all
> kinds of seam; make clothes including fitting zips and making button
> holes, darn, weave, knit, do macrame, and make fishing nets (even though
> we were as far from the sea as its possible to be in England). Years
> later I used my net-making skills to replace my sons' football goal
> nets.
>
> My husband at an all-boys school was taught tech drawing, woodwork and
> metal work;he learned machine-sewing at home from tailor granny and
> still repairs his own trousers, fits new pockets etc.
>
> When my sons were in co-ed school, boys AND girls were all taught
> woodwork, metalwork, cooking, knitting and hand and machine sewing.
>
> Janet.

Those things were all options at my school. But we didn't necessarily get
the classes that we wanted. I didn't want to take sewing or cooking as I
already knew how to do those things but I was assigned to them. I would
rather have taken wood and metal shop.

We had an optional class in high school called Family Living and we were
taught there how to run a household.

Our schools here do offer a cooking class in high school as an option. Not
sure if there is shop.

On Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 11:57:19 AM UTC-10, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/01/2016 6:45 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> > On 1/10/2016 1:21 PM, Janet wrote:
> >>
> >> Nancy wrote
> >>>>
> >>>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
> >>
> >> I went to an all-girls High school in a small rural town in England
> >> in the late 50's early 60's, and that's exactly what they did. It was
> >> rather unusual then and I don't think it's done now.
> >
> > Just seems to me it's one of the most helpful skills you could
> > teach someone that will serve them well in life.
> >
> > I had economics, of course, stocks and GNP, etc, this subject seems
> > like it would have been a natural extension.
> >
> >> Disguised as the Arithmetic part of Maths, we were taught how to
> >> budget household accounts, how to calculate simple and compound interest
> >> on mortgage loans, how to fill in income tax returns, subtract every
> >> possible tax-free allowance and calculate the tax due: and how to fill
> >> in a cheque.
> >
> > Awesome.
> >
> >> Of course,at the time we thought it was duller than dust :-)
> >
> > Right? I bet. But you remembered.
> >
> > The best lesson I've heard anyone give was a friend of a friend
> > who taught high school in a low income area. The kids seemed to
> > think they wanted to just drop out. What will you do then? Get
> > a job at McDonald's, get an apartment and a car.
> >
> > So she wrote her salary on the board. Her taxes. Her rent.
> > You get the idea. The students were shocked. That's what I call
> > a lesson.
> >
> > nancy
> >
> When you're a kid, a McDonalds job seems to pay a lot of money. Kids
> don't think about all the paying out that they need to do.
>
> The best teachers are those who can motivate their students to learn.
>
> --
>
> Xeno

Kids don't need to be motivated to learn. They are programmed to learn about the world around them when they are born. By the time they are around 10 or so they start learning that school sucks. By the time they are in high school, they pretty much hate the education they've had. The job of the teacher is not to quash the young mind's thirst for knowledge.

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 2:19:24 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> On Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 11:57:19 AM UTC-10, Xeno wrote:
> > On 11/01/2016 6:45 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> > > On 1/10/2016 1:21 PM, Janet wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Nancy wrote
> > >>>>
> > >>>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
> > >>
> > >> I went to an all-girls High school in a small rural town in England
> > >> in the late 50's early 60's, and that's exactly what they did. It was
> > >> rather unusual then and I don't think it's done now.
> > >
> > > Just seems to me it's one of the most helpful skills you could
> > > teach someone that will serve them well in life.
> > >
> > > I had economics, of course, stocks and GNP, etc, this subject seems
> > > like it would have been a natural extension.
> > >
> > >> Disguised as the Arithmetic part of Maths, we were taught how to
> > >> budget household accounts, how to calculate simple and compound interest
> > >> on mortgage loans, how to fill in income tax returns, subtract every
> > >> possible tax-free allowance and calculate the tax due: and how to fill
> > >> in a cheque.
> > >
> > > Awesome.
> > >
> > >> Of course,at the time we thought it was duller than dust :-)
> > >
> > > Right? I bet. But you remembered.
> > >
> > > The best lesson I've heard anyone give was a friend of a friend
> > > who taught high school in a low income area. The kids seemed to
> > > think they wanted to just drop out. What will you do then? Get
> > > a job at McDonald's, get an apartment and a car.
> > >
> > > So she wrote her salary on the board. Her taxes. Her rent.
> > > You get the idea. The students were shocked. That's what I call
> > > a lesson.
> > >
> > > nancy
> > >
> > When you're a kid, a McDonalds job seems to pay a lot of money. Kids
> > don't think about all the paying out that they need to do.
> >
> > The best teachers are those who can motivate their students to learn.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Xeno
>
> Kids don't need to be motivated to learn. They are programmed to learn about the world around them when they are born. By the time they are around 10 or so they start learning that school sucks. By the time they are in high school, they pretty much hate the education they've had. The job of the teacher is not to quash the young mind's thirst for knowledge.

I knew school, was gonna suck my first day of Kindergarten! I knew my teacher's name was "Mrs. Woods" but had yet to meet Mrs Woods. So on the first day of Kindergarten there was the usual melee of children in the room, and I was standing next to the big desk in the front of the room assuming this is where I'd meet this "Mrs. Woods", my teacher, and trhis older woman whom I didn't know admionished me and told me "Don't play with that, it's Mrs. Woods' pencil sharpener" and my first though was "Then where is Mrs. Woods?"..

It was all downhill after that! I was not accustomed to being spoken to in third person references!! Like a child. :-(

John Kuthe...

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:19:20 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
wrote:

snip
>
>Kids don't need to be motivated to learn. They are programmed to learn about the world around them when they are born. By the time they are around 10 or so they start learning that school sucks. By the time they are in high school, they pretty much hate the education they've had. The job of the teacher is not to quash the young mind's thirst for knowledge.

Curiosity about the world around them is taught and learned at home
from a very early age.
Janet US

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 11:24:06 AM UTC-10, Janet B wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:19:20 -0800 (PST), dsi1 <>
> wrote:
>
> snip
> >
> >Kids don't need to be motivated to learn. They are programmed to learn about the world around them when they are born. By the time they are around 10 or so they start learning that school sucks. By the time they are in high school, they pretty much hate the education they've had. The job of the teacher is not to quash the young mind's thirst for knowledge.
>
> Curiosity about the world around them is taught and learned at home
> from a very early age.
> Janet US

That's one way of looking at it. OTOH, babies come with a wide range of pre-programming build in. Newborns have walking and swimming reflexes that disappear after a few months. They are intent on watching faces and instinctively make eye-to-eye contact as a way of creating a social bond with their caretakers.

I used to have a pup that, when he saw a bird or other animals, would get very still and crouch down and point with one paw. He also displayed herding behavior by strategically flanking his target. Nobody taught him that - he was made that way. My belief is that newborns are not the blank slate people think they are.

On 1/11/2016 10:28 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 2:19:24 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 11:57:19 AM UTC-10, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/01/2016 6:45 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>> On 1/10/2016 1:21 PM, Janet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Nancy wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They need to teach personal finance in the schools.
>>>>>
>>>>> I went to an all-girls High school in a small rural town in England
>>>>> in the late 50's early 60's, and that's exactly what they did. It was
>>>>> rather unusual then and I don't think it's done now.
>>>>
>>>> Just seems to me it's one of the most helpful skills you could
>>>> teach someone that will serve them well in life.
>>>>
>>>> I had economics, of course, stocks and GNP, etc, this subject seems
>>>> like it would have been a natural extension.
>>>>
>>>>> Disguised as the Arithmetic part of Maths, we were taught how to
>>>>> budget household accounts, how to calculate simple and compound interest
>>>>> on mortgage loans, how to fill in income tax returns, subtract every
>>>>> possible tax-free allowance and calculate the tax due: and how to fill
>>>>> in a cheque.
>>>>
>>>> Awesome.
>>>>
>>>>> Of course,at the time we thought it was duller than dust :-)
>>>>
>>>> Right? I bet. But you remembered.
>>>>
>>>> The best lesson I've heard anyone give was a friend of a friend
>>>> who taught high school in a low income area. The kids seemed to
>>>> think they wanted to just drop out. What will you do then? Get
>>>> a job at McDonald's, get an apartment and a car.
>>>>
>>>> So she wrote her salary on the board. Her taxes. Her rent.
>>>> You get the idea. The students were shocked. That's what I call
>>>> a lesson.
>>>>
>>>> nancy
>>>>
>>> When you're a kid, a McDonalds job seems to pay a lot of money. Kids
>>> don't think about all the paying out that they need to do.
>>>
>>> The best teachers are those who can motivate their students to learn.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Xeno
>>
>> Kids don't need to be motivated to learn. They are programmed to learn about the world around them when they are born. By the time they are around 10 or so they start learning that school sucks. By the time they are in high school, they pretty much hate the education they've had. The job of the teacher is not to quash the young mind's thirst for knowledge.
>
> I knew school, was gonna suck my first day of Kindergarten! I knew my teacher's name was "Mrs. Woods" but had yet to meet Mrs Woods. So on the first day of Kindergarten there was the usual melee of children in the room, and I was standing next to the big desk in the front of the room assuming this is where I'd meet this "Mrs. Woods", my teacher, and trhis older woman whom I didn't know admionished me and told me "Don't play with that, it's Mrs. Woods' pencil sharpener" and my first though was "Then where is Mrs. Woods?".
>
> It was all downhill after that! I was not accustomed to being spoken to in third person references!! Like a child. :-(
>
> John Kuthe...
>

You should have checked in the broom closet.

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 13:41:27 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 11:24:06 AM UTC-10, Janet B wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:19:20 -0800 (PST), dsi1 <>
>> wrote:
>>
>> snip
>> >
>> >Kids don't need to be motivated to learn. They are programmed to learn about the world around them when they are born. By the time they are around 10 or so they start learning that school sucks. By the time they are in high school, they pretty much hate the education they've had. The job of the teacher is not to quash the young mind's thirst for knowledge.
>>
>> Curiosity about the world around them is taught and learned at home
>> from a very early age.
>> Janet US
>
>That's one way of looking at it. OTOH, babies come with a wide range of pre-programming build in. Newborns have walking and swimming reflexes that disappear after a few months. They are intent on watching faces and instinctively make eye-to-eye contact as a way of creating a social bond with their caretakers.
>
>I used to have a pup that, when he saw a bird or other animals, would get very still and crouch down and point with one paw. He also displayed herding behavior by strategically flanking his target. Nobody taught him that - he was made that way. My belief is that newborns are not the blank slate people think they are.

No, of course they are not. But if you talk to them and share with
them before they are even able to move on their own you are already
priming the mind of that baby. There are new studies that show
infants already have a much larger grasp of the meaning of words long
before they can speak. They are little sponges.
Janet US

On 1/11/2016 1:45 PM, Janet B wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 13:41:27 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 11:24:06 AM UTC-10, Janet B wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:19:20 -0800 (PST), dsi1 <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> snip
>>>>
>>>> Kids don't need to be motivated to learn. They are programmed to learn about the world around them when they are born. By the time they are around 10 or so they start learning that school sucks. By the time they are in high school, they pretty much hate the education they've had. The job of the teacher is not to quash the young mind's thirst for knowledge.
>>>
>>> Curiosity about the world around them is taught and learned at home
>>> from a very early age.
>>> Janet US
>>
>> That's one way of looking at it. OTOH, babies come with a wide range of pre-programming build in. Newborns have walking and swimming reflexes that disappear after a few months. They are intent on watching faces and instinctively make eye-to-eye contact as a way of creating a social bond with their caretakers.
>>
>> I used to have a pup that, when he saw a bird or other animals, would get very still and crouch down and point with one paw. He also displayed herding behavior by strategically flanking his target. Nobody taught him that - he was made that way. My belief is that newborns are not the blank slate people think they are.
>
> No, of course they are not. But if you talk to them and share with
> them before they are even able to move on their own you are already
> priming the mind of that baby. There are new studies that show
> infants already have a much larger grasp of the meaning of words long
> before they can speak. They are little sponges.
> Janet US
>

Well, Okay - I got a couple of granddaughters and I'm hoping that they
will remain lifelong learners. That would be just great.

John Kuthe wrote:
> It was all downhill after that! I was not accustomed to being spoken to in third person references!! Like a child.:-(
>
> John Kuthe...

And here you are, still acting like...A CHILD!

dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 11:24:06 AM UTC-10, Janet B wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:19:20 -0800 (PST), dsi1 <>
>> wrote:
>>
>> snip
>>>
>>> Kids don't need to be motivated to learn. They are programmed to learn about the world around them when they are born. By the time they are around 10 or so they start learning that school sucks. By the time they are in high school, they pretty much hate the education they've had. The job of the teacher is not to quash the young mind's thirst for knowledge.
>>
>> Curiosity about the world around them is taught and learned at home
>> from a very early age.
>> Janet US
>
> That's one way of looking at it. OTOH, babies come with a wide range of pre-programming build in. Newborns have walking and swimming reflexes that disappear after a few months. They are intent on watching faces and instinctively make eye-to-eye contact as a way of creating a social bond with their caretakers.
>
> I used to have a pup that, when he saw a bird or other animals, would get very still and crouch down and point with one paw. He also displayed herding behavior by strategically flanking his target. Nobody taught him that - he was made that way. My belief is that newborns are not the blank slate people think they are.
>

Bingo!

On 1/11/2016 6:45 PM, Janet B wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 13:41:27 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 11:24:06 AM UTC-10, Janet B wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:19:20 -0800 (PST), dsi1 <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> snip
>>>>
>>>> Kids don't need to be motivated to learn. They are programmed to learn about the world around them when they are born. By the time they are around 10 or so they start learning that school sucks. By the time they are in high school, they pretty much hate the education they've had. The job of the teacher is not to quash the young mind's thirst for knowledge.
>>>
>>> Curiosity about the world around them is taught and learned at home
>>> from a very early age.
>>> Janet US
>>
>> That's one way of looking at it. OTOH, babies come with a wide range of pre-programming build in. Newborns have walking and swimming reflexes that disappear after a few months. They are intent on watching faces and instinctively make eye-to-eye contact as a way of creating a social bond with their caretakers.
>>
>> I used to have a pup that, when he saw a bird or other animals, would get very still and crouch down and point with one paw. He also displayed herding behavior by strategically flanking his target. Nobody taught him that - he was made that way. My belief is that newborns are not the blank slate people think they are.
>
> No, of course they are not. But if you talk to them and share with
> them before they are even able to move on their own you are already
> priming the mind of that baby. There are new studies that show
> infants already have a much larger grasp of the meaning of words long
> before they can speak. They are little sponges.
> Janet US
>
I don't know what dsi1 is going on about. Of course children (and other
young animals) start learning from a very early age. Humans are not
horses or cows. We don't just spring from the womb and suddenly stand
up and walk. We don't know how to do anything. We learn. We are sent
to school to learn further. What the hell was his point?

Jill