On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 05:53:41 -0800 (PST), Nancy2
> wrote:

>
> Sf, my house was built in 1969, and I,chose one of those adjustable lights
> for over the kitchen table, too, thinking it would be handy for the kids doing
> homework at the table. But we seldom moved it down, so I had it affixed
> permanently in an "up" position. When I remodeled the kitchen, I had can lights put in.
> I think those pull-downs were a 60s-70s thing.
>
I used the up and down feature a lot, thought it was worthwhile.
You're right about timing. Probably more 60's because I couldn't find
anything to replace it when I looked in the late '70s (and beyond).


--

sf

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 12:45:06 PM UTC-6, Cheryl wrote:
> On 1/22/2016 8:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 1/22/2016 7:00 PM, Je�us wrote:
> >> On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 19:55:14 +0000 (UTC), tert in seattle
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> why do people unplug toasters??
> >>>
> >>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
> >>>
> >>> just toasters
> >>
> >> They do? News to me.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I don't get it
> >
> > I know a lady that unplugs the toaster, coffee maker, microwave, TV, and
> > first thing in the morning even the LED nightlight. Has a ritual before
> > leaving the house too.
>
> You know my mom? lol My mom unplugs everything. Well more exact, she
> uses power strips to plug a bunch of things into then the power strips
> are turned off when she's not using the devices. Same with her laptop,
> she'll run it on battery all the time and most of the time forgets to
> let it charge. And of course she needs to leave the power strip on for
> that to happen. I told her the battery is only for when she is mobile
> with it (never) or the power is out. Otherwise she should leave it
> running on electricity. I don't know where she got it into her head to
> run on battery all the time.
>
> --
> ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
> Cheryl

Not a bad idea, as so many electically powered devices use what I think is called "parasitic power", like my od Kodak Easy Share digital camera that ate batteries even when shut off!! I had to pull the batteries out to prevent it from draining them when I had the camera shut off and sitting in my desk's cubbyhole!!

John Kuthe...

In article >,
says...
>
> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 05:53:41 -0800 (PST), Nancy2
> > wrote:
>
> >
> > Sf, my house was built in 1969, and I,chose one of those adjustable lights
> > for over the kitchen table, too, thinking it would be handy for the kids doing
> > homework at the table. But we seldom moved it down, so I had it affixed
> > permanently in an "up" position. When I remodeled the kitchen, I had can lights put in.
> > I think those pull-downs were a 60s-70s thing.
> >
> I used the up and down feature a lot, thought it was worthwhile.
> You're right about timing. Probably more 60's because I couldn't find
> anything to replace it when I looked in the late '70s (and beyond).

We had a Habitat rise-and-fall light in the 70's, over the dining
table. I loved it:-)

Janet UK

On 26/01/2016 8:39 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 05:53:41 -0800 (PST), Nancy2
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sf, my house was built in 1969, and I,chose one of those adjustable lights
>>> for over the kitchen table, too, thinking it would be handy for the kids doing
>>> homework at the table. But we seldom moved it down, so I had it affixed
>>> permanently in an "up" position. When I remodeled the kitchen, I had can lights put in.
>>> I think those pull-downs were a 60s-70s thing.
>>>
>> I used the up and down feature a lot, thought it was worthwhile.
>> You're right about timing. Probably more 60's because I couldn't find
>> anything to replace it when I looked in the late '70s (and beyond).
>
> We had a Habitat rise-and-fall light in the 70's, over the dining
> table. I loved it:-)
>
> Janet UK
>
>
I have one now that has been in place for 10 years or so. Visitors
admire it.
Graham

--
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid
people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
-John Stuart Mill

On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
> why do people unplug toasters??
>
> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>
> just toasters
>
> I don't get it

In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.

Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
on.

wrote:
> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>
>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>
>> just toasters
>>
>> I don't get it
>
> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>
> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
> on.

ingenious!

tert in seattle wrote:
> wrote:
>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
>>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>>
>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>>
>>> just toasters
>>>
>>> I don't get it
>>
>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>>
>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
>> on.
>
> ingenious!
>

After Dark!

http://www.masswerk.at/flyer/

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
> > why do people unplug toasters??
> >
> > they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
> >
> > just toasters
> >
> > I don't get it
>
> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>
> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
> on.

I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.

We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> > On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
> > > why do people unplug toasters??
> > >
> > > they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
> > >
> > > just toasters
> > >
> > > I don't get it
> >
> > In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
> > microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
> > breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
> >
> > Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
> > on.
>
> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
>
> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.

Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!

Use less electricity is your best bet!!

John Kuthe...

On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>>>
>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>>>
>>>> just toasters
>>>>
>>>> I don't get it
>>>
>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>>>
>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
>>> on.
>>
>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
>>
>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
>
> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
>
> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>
> John Kuthe...
>

I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
probably dead meat already.

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 2:02:36 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> >> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> >>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
> >>>> why do people unplug toasters??
> >>>>
> >>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
> >>>>
> >>>> just toasters
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't get it
> >>>
> >>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
> >>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
> >>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
> >>>
> >>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
> >>> on.
> >>
> >> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
> >>
> >> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
> >
> > Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
> >
> > Use less electricity is your best bet!!
> >
> > John Kuthe...
> >
>
> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
> probably dead meat already.

Yep, that's what curcuit breakers are for. To keep your house wiring from turning into an ignitor!!

John Kuthe...

On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:02:41 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

>On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>>>>
>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>>>>
>>>>> just toasters
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't get it
>>>>
>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>>>>
>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
>>>> on.
>>>
>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
>>>
>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
>>
>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
>>
>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>>
>
>I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
>accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
>3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
>roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
>for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
>probably dead meat already.

It all depends upon what has been wired to each outlet. For instance,
the oven, dishwasher and washing machine on the same outlet is not a
good idea. The way your house is wired isn't always logical. When we
remodeled we took care of all of that. Check out what is wired where
by flipping switches on the breaker box and then go see what is no
longer powered up.
Janet US

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 2:50:39 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:

> > We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.

Actually, the current building code calls for an outlet every 6 feet
in rooms like living rooms and bed rooms, and every 2 feet along kitchen
counters. I don't have nearly that many in my vintage 1948 house.

> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!

If we wanted more outlets in some room, we would put in at least
one new home run back to the load center. It's just common sense.

Cindy Hamilton

On 1/29/2016 10:15 AM, Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:02:41 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
>
>> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
>>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just toasters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't get it
>>>>>
>>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
>>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
>>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
>>>>> on.
>>>>
>>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
>>>>
>>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
>>>
>>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
>>>
>>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>>>
>>> John Kuthe...
>>>
>>
>> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
>> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
>> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
>> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
>> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
>> probably dead meat already.
>
> It all depends upon what has been wired to each outlet. For instance,
> the oven, dishwasher and washing machine on the same outlet is not a
> good idea. The way your house is wired isn't always logical. When we
> remodeled we took care of all of that. Check out what is wired where
> by flipping switches on the breaker box and then go see what is no
> longer powered up.
> Janet US
>

The oven, dishwasher, and washing machine, all have their own protected
circuits. It's probably a requirement of modern building codes.

On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:36:16 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

>On 1/29/2016 10:15 AM, Janet B wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:02:41 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>>>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
>>>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> just toasters
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't get it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
>>>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
>>>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
>>>>>> on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
>>>>
>>>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
>>>>
>>>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>>>>
>>>> John Kuthe...
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
>>> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
>>> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
>>> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
>>> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
>>> probably dead meat already.
>>
>> It all depends upon what has been wired to each outlet. For instance,
>> the oven, dishwasher and washing machine on the same outlet is not a
>> good idea. The way your house is wired isn't always logical. When we
>> remodeled we took care of all of that. Check out what is wired where
>> by flipping switches on the breaker box and then go see what is no
>> longer powered up.
>> Janet US
>>
>
>The oven, dishwasher, and washing machine, all have their own protected
>circuits. It's probably a requirement of modern building codes.

My 60s house had the washing machine, dishwasher and deep freeze on
the same line. I'm sure you are right about the codes.
Janet US

On 2016-01-29 3:02 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:

>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact
>>> that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and
>>> lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a
>>> good start.
>>
>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in
>> the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or
>> worse, a house fire!
>>
>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>>
>
> I don't believe that to be the case.

Of course not. Kuthe is an idiot. Having twice the number of outlets in
a room does not mean they are all going to be on the same circuit or
that they will all be used at the same time. Re-wiring would mean split
receptacles so that you can plug in two high draw appliances and they
won't blow the breaker.

On 2016-01-29 3:15 PM, Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:02:41 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
>
>> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
>>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just toasters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't get it
>>>>>
>>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
>>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
>>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
>>>>> on.
>>>>
>>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
>>>>
>>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
>>>
>>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
>>>
>>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>>>
>>> John Kuthe...
>>>
>>
>> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
>> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
>> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
>> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
>> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
>> probably dead meat already.
>
> It all depends upon what has been wired to each outlet. For instance,
> the oven, dishwasher and washing machine on the same outlet is not a
> good idea.

If it is a kitchen outlet it should have a split receptacle. It can be
fed from the same three wire cable but the connection between the two
plus has been split. Instead of having one hot wire being hooked up on
the brass side and the common on the other, feeding both receptacles on
one circuit, you split the connection and run black to one side, red to
the other, and white (common) on the other side.

On 1/29/2016 12:56 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-01-29 3:02 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>
>>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact
>>>> that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and
>>>> lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a
>>>> good start.
>>>
>>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in
>>> the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or
>>> worse, a house fire!
>>>
>>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>>>
>>> John Kuthe...
>>>
>>
>> I don't believe that to be the case.
>
> Of course not. Kuthe is an idiot. Having twice the number of outlets in
> a room does not mean they are all going to be on the same circuit or
> that they will all be used at the same time. Re-wiring would mean split
> receptacles so that you can plug in two high draw appliances and they
> won't blow the breaker.
>
>

I went into my daughter's room and saw her receptacle loaded to the
gunwales. It was a funny sight. There's probably a sequence of turning
on all the devices on that mess without setting off the breaker - sorta
like the problem the Apollo 13 crew faced.

dsi1 wrote:
> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10,
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>>>>
>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>>>>
>>>>> just toasters
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't get it
>>>>
>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>>>>
>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
>>>> on.
>>>
>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage
>>> appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is
>>> that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because
>>> old habits die hard.
>>>
>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact
>>> that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and
>>> lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a
>>> good start.
>>
>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in
>> the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or
>> worse, a house fire!
>>
>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>>
>
> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
> probably dead meat already.

ROTFLMFAO!!!

On 1/29/2016 2:36 PM, cibola de oro wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10,
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just toasters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't get it
>>>>>
>>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
>>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
>>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
>>>>> on.
>>>>
>>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage
>>>> appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is
>>>> that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because
>>>> old habits die hard.
>>>>
>>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact
>>>> that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and
>>>> lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a
>>>> good start.
>>>
>>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in
>>> the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or
>>> worse, a house fire!
>>>
>>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>>>
>>> John Kuthe...
>>>
>>
>> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
>> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
>> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
>> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
>> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
>> probably dead meat already.
>
> ROTFLMFAO!!!

When I was in college, we had a couple of FOB Chinese students in my
class. The girl was kind of a Chinese genetic freak - she had a classic
Chinese moon face but her bod was strictly mid-western corn fed buxom.
Thanks Jesus!

The other Chinese was kind of an ugly skinny guy. We get to their place
and he gruffly tells her to make us some noodles or something. I thought
no way should an ugly guy order such a beauty around like that. You know
I'd treat her with uttermost respect, as I make a grab for her...

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 4:56:08 PM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-01-29 3:02 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>
> >>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact
> >>> that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and
> >>> lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a
> >>> good start.
> >>
> >> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in
> >> the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or
> >> worse, a house fire!
> >>
> >> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
> >>
> >> John Kuthe...
> >>
> >
> > I don't believe that to be the case.
>
> Of course not. Kuthe is an idiot. Having twice the number of outlets in
> a room does not mean they are all going to be on the same circuit or
> that they will all be used at the same time. Re-wiring would mean split
> receptacles so that you can plug in two high draw appliances and they
> won't blow the breaker.

No, I am NOT an idiot!! You are correct that multiple A/C power outlets in a room MAY not be on the same circuit, but probably not. Home builder electrical contractors are NOT EE's or electical geniuses like Nikola Tesla. And yes, building codes, etc. Yean yeah yeah, they are skirted all the time!!

John Kuthe...

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 5:00:33 PM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-01-29 3:15 PM, Janet B wrote:
> > On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:02:41 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> >>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
> >>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> just toasters
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I don't get it
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
> >>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
> >>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
> >>>>> on.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
> >>>>
> >>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
> >>>
> >>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
> >>>
> >>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
> >>>
> >>> John Kuthe...
> >>>
> >>
> >> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
> >> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
> >> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
> >> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
> >> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
> >> probably dead meat already.
> >
> > It all depends upon what has been wired to each outlet. For instance,
> > the oven, dishwasher and washing machine on the same outlet is not a
> > good idea.
>
> If it is a kitchen outlet it should have a split receptacle. It can be
> fed from the same three wire cable but the connection between the two
> plus has been split. Instead of having one hot wire being hooked up on
> the brass side and the common on the other, feeding both receptacles on
> one circuit, you split the connection and run black to one side, red to
> the other, and white (common) on the other side.

And it ALL gets pulled from the same single power cable which leads to your house!! Normally 3 phase 240V I think. But every house is different!! And don't talk to me about building codes and crap like that! Because building codes are regularly cheated!!

John Kuthe...

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:37:41 AM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 5:00:33 PM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2016-01-29 3:15 PM, Janet B wrote:
> > > On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:02:41 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > >>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> > >>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> > >>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
> > >>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> just toasters
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I don't get it
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
> > >>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
> > >>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
> > >>>>> on.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
> > >>>
> > >>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
> > >>>
> > >>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
> > >>>
> > >>> John Kuthe...
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
> > >> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
> > >> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
> > >> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
> > >> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
> > >> probably dead meat already.
> > >
> > > It all depends upon what has been wired to each outlet. For instance,
> > > the oven, dishwasher and washing machine on the same outlet is not a
> > > good idea.
> >
> > If it is a kitchen outlet it should have a split receptacle. It can be
> > fed from the same three wire cable but the connection between the two
> > plus has been split. Instead of having one hot wire being hooked up on
> > the brass side and the common on the other, feeding both receptacles on
> > one circuit, you split the connection and run black to one side, red to
> > the other, and white (common) on the other side.
>
> And it ALL gets pulled from the same single power cable which leads to your house!! Normally 3 phase 240V I think. But every house is different!! And don't talk to me about building codes and crap like that! Because building codes are regularly cheated!!

My 200 A electrical service can handle quite a bit. And the beauty of
owning your own home is that you can exceed code rather than cheat it.

Cindy Hamilton

On 1/30/2016 10:37 AM, John Kuthe wrote:

> And it ALL gets pulled from the same single power cable which leads to your house!! Normally 3 phase 240V I think. But every house is different!!
>
> John Kuthe...
>

Never was 3 phase in a residence. Industrial, commercial, yes.
Residential has 3 wires, two 120V and a neutral.

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 2:02:36 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> >> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> >>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
> >>>> why do people unplug toasters??
> >>>>
> >>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
> >>>>
> >>>> just toasters
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't get it
> >>>
> >>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
> >>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
> >>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
> >>>
> >>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
> >>> on.
> >>
> >> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
> >>
> >> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
> >
> > Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
> >
> > Use less electricity is your best bet!!
> >
> > John Kuthe...
> >
>
> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
> probably dead meat already.

Those danged Chinese roommates.

--Bryan https://www.flickr.com/photos/15522299@N08/?

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:25:54 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:37:41 AM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
> > On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 5:00:33 PM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > On 2016-01-29 3:15 PM, Janet B wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:02:41 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > > >>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
> > > >>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
> > > >>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> just toasters
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I don't get it
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
> > > >>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
> > > >>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
> > > >>>>> on.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:48:09 AM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/30/2016 10:37 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>
> > And it ALL gets pulled from the same single power cable which leads to your house!! Normally 3 phase 240V I think. But every house is different!!
> >
> > John Kuthe...
> >
>
> Never was 3 phase in a residence. Industrial, commercial, yes.
> Residential has 3 wires, two 120V and a neutral.

I'm not an electrician, just an Electrical Engineer!

Much like the difference between an optomitrist and an opthalmologist!!

I know this much, electric service to a residence almost always comes in in one CABLE! Multiple conductors in that one cable, but... ;-)

John Kuthe...

On 2016-01-30 11:48 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/30/2016 10:37 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>
>> And it ALL gets pulled from the same single power cable which leads to
>> your house!! Normally 3 phase 240V I think. But every house is
>> different!!
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>>
>
> Never was 3 phase in a residence. Industrial, commercial, yes.
> Residential has 3 wires, two 120V and a neutral.


Oops... he tried to work his way around his first load of crap and then
spewed more crap.

On 1/30/2016 7:11 AM, MisterDiddyWahDiddy wrote:
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 2:02:36 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 1/29/2016 9:50 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-6, dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:30:53 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 12:00:04 PM UTC-8, tert in seattle wrote:
>>>>>> why do people unplug toasters??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> they don't unplug microwaves, electric ovens, even toaster ovens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just toasters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't get it
>>>>>
>>>>> In our 60's house, if someone pushes the toast lever down while the
>>>>> microwave is running (say, to thaw bread for toast) the circuit
>>>>> breaker will pop, and somebody will have to go reset it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unplugging the toaster gives people time to think: Oh, the microwave's
>>>>> on.
>>>>
>>>> I have the opposite problem. I won't operate 2 high wattage appliances plugged into the same outlet at the same time. My guess is that it's wired to separate legs but I'll never know for sure because old habits die hard.
>>>>
>>>> We need to modernize our building code to one that addresses the fact that we need to plug in a lot more stuff into the wall than a TV and lamp. Doubling the number of outlets required per wall would be a good start.
>>>
>>> Doubling the outlets would just lead to you overloading the wiring in the house, and may lead to eithyer the circuit breaker tripping or worse, a house fire!
>>>
>>> Use less electricity is your best bet!!
>>>
>>> John Kuthe...
>>>
>>
>> I don't believe that to be the case. Mostly we need the extra outlets to
>> accommodate low wattage electronic devices. OTOH, if people did plug in
>> 3 clothes irons or blow driers into the wall, as some certain Chinese
>> roommates are likely to do... well, that's what circuit breakers are
>> for. OTOH, if you have faulty wiring and Chinese roommates, you're
>> probably dead meat already.
>
> Those danged Chinese roommates.
>
> --Bryan https://www.flickr.com/photos/15522299@N08/?
>

They are not to be trusted.

On 30/01/2016 9:48 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/30/2016 10:37 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>
>> And it ALL gets pulled from the same single power cable which leads to
>> your house!! Normally 3 phase 240V I think. But every house is
>> different!!
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>>
>
> Never was 3 phase in a residence. Industrial, commercial, yes.
> Residential has 3 wires, two 120V and a neutral.

I've been thinking of buying a 220v, 3 phase motor for my lathe but
haven't been able to track down a dust proof speed control.
Graham

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:41:25 AM UTC-8, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:48:09 AM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 1/30/2016 10:37 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> >
> > > And it ALL gets pulled from the same single power cable which leads to your house!! Normally 3 phase 240V I think. But every house is different!!
> > >
> > > John Kuthe...
> > >
> >
> > Never was 3 phase in a residence. Industrial, commercial, yes.
> > Residential has 3 wires, two 120V and a neutral.
>
> I'm not an electrician, just an Electrical Engineer!
>
> Much like the difference between an optomitrist and an opthalmologist!!
>
> I know this much, electric service to a residence almost always comes in in one CABLE! Multiple conductors in that one cable, but... ;-)
>

AC circuits were not part of the EE curriculum? No wyes or deltas?

The 220 coming into your house is split phase. The hot leads are 220 between
them, or 110 between either and neutral. Ideally there would be equal loads
on each leg.

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 4:48:08 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:41:25 AM UTC-8, John Kuthe wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:48:09 AM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > > On 1/30/2016 10:37 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > >
> > > > And it ALL gets pulled from the same single power cable which leads to your house!! Normally 3 phase 240V I think. But every house is different!!
> > > >
> > > > John Kuthe...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Never was 3 phase in a residence. Industrial, commercial, yes.
> > > Residential has 3 wires, two 120V and a neutral.
> >
> > I'm not an electrician, just an Electrical Engineer!
> >
> > Much like the difference between an optomitrist and an opthalmologist!!
> >
> > I know this much, electric service to a residence almost always comes in in one CABLE! Multiple conductors in that one cable, but... ;-)
> >
>
> AC circuits were not part of the EE curriculum? No wyes or deltas?
>
> The 220 coming into your house is split phase. The hot leads are 220 between
> them, or 110 between either and neutral. Ideally there would be equal loads
> on each leg.

I know more about alternating currents than anyone has a right to. I mean, I'm no Nicola Telsa, but who is? ;-)

John Kuthe...

I have 3 Sunbeam toasters with no lever to push down.