On 1/24/2016 11:44 AM, cibola de oro wrote:
> Doris Night wrote:
>> We don't ever use GPS - and I have GPS in my car. It's too complicated
>> to even bother with.
>
> Typical old fartism.

Local dealer has a person that will go to the home or office of the new
car buyer to teach them how to use all the technology cars now have.
People are more comfortable at home after having the car a few days
versus the run through at the dealership when picking up the car.

On 2016-01-24 12:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 1/24/2016 11:31 AM, Gary wrote:
>> Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>> I hope I am never on the same road as a driverless car. I would get the
>>> hellouta there.. fast.
>>>
>>> No, I wouldn't trust them!
>>
>> Me either. I certainly wouldn't trust riding in one right now while
>> it's in it's infancy. Just a minor computer programming error or a
>> hardware glitch/failure could end your life quickly.
>>
> It's a stupid idea. Who is going to *pay* to upgrade all the infrasture
> in roads and highways? They'd have to be lined with electronic gadgets
> that detect these driverless cars that constantly give them
> instructions. Then, as you said Gary, oops!
>
> Follow the yellow brick road. Sure. Until it fails.
>
> I'd much rather drive myself, thank you.
>

I am assuming that they are guided at least in part by a GPS system. I
am sure that everyone here who has a GPS has had some issues with them.

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 12:07:23 PM UTC-5, cibola de oro wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
> >
> >
> > "Gary" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Ophelia wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I hope I am never on the same road as a driverless car. I would get the
> >>> hellouta there.. fast.
> >>>
> >>> No, I wouldn't trust them!
> >>
> >> Me either. I certainly wouldn't trust riding in one right now while
> >> it's in it's infancy. Just a minor computer programming error or a
> >> hardware glitch/failure could end your life quickly.
> >
> > And of course, computer glitches never happen ... do they ...
> >
>
> Ever fly in a commercial airliner?
>
> What percentage of your flight do you estimate is NOT computer controlled?

For the newest planes, 0%. Sure, the pilot moves the controls, but
from there it goes through computers before everything else. Even
cabin air conditioning is computer controlled.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2016-01-24 12:16 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> I still have a cartonful of AAA and gas company road maps, and still
> use those... plus I often print enlarged city maps from Mapuest. I
> have a garmin but really only use it occasionally, I can't tolerate
> those constant voice commands... could've at least found someone who
> speaks more coherently.
>


Lucky for you that you have a supply of old maps. They are becoming
increasingly difficult to find. When I was in California last fall I did
not need on at the beginning. We were staying in Newport Beach and
roamed not to far from there, relying on the GPS to find our way. When
we left NP and headed north I wanted a proper map. I tried the local
tourism office, but it was not where it was listed in the phone book and
in the internet. I tried several gas stations and convenience stores,
even a grocery store. One place suggested the liquor store. No luck
there either. It turned out that it was easy to get through LA and
points north, and the GPS was helpful. I kept an eye out for a map but
never did see one for sale.

Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> On 1/24/2016 11:44 AM, cibola de oro wrote:
>> Doris Night wrote:
>>> We don't ever use GPS - and I have GPS in my car. It's too complicated
>>> to even bother with.
>>
>> Typical old fartism.
>
> Local dealer has a person that will go to the home or office of the new
> car buyer to teach them how to use all the technology cars now have.
> People are more comfortable at home after having the car a few days
> versus the run through at the dealership when picking up the car.
>

That's a great idea! I just bought a new car 3 days ago, and even though
I'm no where near being an "old fart" I'm amazed at how much car technology
has changed since I bought my last car 10 years ago. The new car came with
2" of manuals I'm slogging through just to get up to speed (so to speak).
This car came with everything but the kitchen sink!

--
jinx the minx

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:30:36 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-01-24 12:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 1/24/2016 11:31 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> Ophelia wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I hope I am never on the same road as a driverless car. I would get the
>>>> hellouta there.. fast.
>>>>
>>>> No, I wouldn't trust them!
>>>
>>> Me either. I certainly wouldn't trust riding in one right now while
>>> it's in it's infancy. Just a minor computer programming error or a
>>> hardware glitch/failure could end your life quickly.
>>>
>> It's a stupid idea. Who is going to *pay* to upgrade all the infrasture
>> in roads and highways? They'd have to be lined with electronic gadgets
>> that detect these driverless cars that constantly give them
>> instructions. Then, as you said Gary, oops!
>>
>> Follow the yellow brick road. Sure. Until it fails.
>>
>> I'd much rather drive myself, thank you.
>>
>
>I am assuming that they are guided at least in part by a GPS system. I
>am sure that everyone here who has a GPS has had some issues with them.

There was a rotating antenna on the roof of the car. I'm assuming the
two men were in the car to take over if something didn't work right.
Janet US

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:24:08 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 1/24/2016 11:44 AM, cibola de oro wrote:
>> Doris Night wrote:
>>> We don't ever use GPS - and I have GPS in my car. It's too complicated
>>> to even bother with.
>>
>> Typical old fartism.
>
>Local dealer has a person that will go to the home or office of the new
>car buyer to teach them how to use all the technology cars now have.
>People are more comfortable at home after having the car a few days
>versus the run through at the dealership when picking up the car.

neighbors and friends have attended classes.
We sort of house-mind for some friends while they are away. My
husband goes over to start cars and let them run for at least a half
hour or more each week. The cars correct him when tries to start them
improperly. (got to run the cars each week or the computerized items
that run constantly in the background in the vehicle, whether in use
or not, will run down the battery). A dead battery is what happened
last year. They were gone over 2 months and he was only running the
vehicles 15-20 minutes.
Janet US

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:13:01 -0700, Janet B >
wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:30:36 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> >On 2016-01-24 12:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> >> On 1/24/2016 11:31 AM, Gary wrote:
> >>> Ophelia wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope I am never on the same road as a driverless car. I would get the
> >>>> hellouta there.. fast.
> >>>>
> >>>> No, I wouldn't trust them!
> >>>
> >>> Me either. I certainly wouldn't trust riding in one right now while
> >>> it's in it's infancy. Just a minor computer programming error or a
> >>> hardware glitch/failure could end your life quickly.
> >>>
> >> It's a stupid idea. Who is going to *pay* to upgrade all the infrasture
> >> in roads and highways? They'd have to be lined with electronic gadgets
> >> that detect these driverless cars that constantly give them
> >> instructions. Then, as you said Gary, oops!
> >>
> >> Follow the yellow brick road. Sure. Until it fails.
> >>
> >> I'd much rather drive myself, thank you.
> >>
> >
> >I am assuming that they are guided at least in part by a GPS system. I
> >am sure that everyone here who has a GPS has had some issues with them.

Like what? My GPS does what I want it to do.
>
> There was a rotating antenna on the roof of the car. I'm assuming the
> two men were in the car to take over if something didn't work right.
> Janet US

Driverless cars aren't some pipe dream, they're here and they function
well on highways. City driving is a different matter. Tesla has
decided that there must be a driver to take the wheel on streets with
no dividing line (at least for the time being).

--

sf

On 2016-01-24 12:49 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>>> And of course, computer glitches never happen ... do they ...
>>>
>>
>> Ever fly in a commercial airliner?
>>
>> What percentage of your flight do you estimate is NOT computer controlled?
>
> For the newest planes, 0%. Sure, the pilot moves the controls, but
> from there it goes through computers before everything else. Even
> cabin air conditioning is computer controlled.
>

A friend of mine is a retired airline pilot. He said that the pilots job
these days is to watch the dials and gauges to make sure the computer is
working properly.


I caught a bit of a TV show a couple weeks ago about the F 117 stealth
fighter. Apparently the people in the military aircraft business had a
good idea about the sorts of surfaces, angles and materials to make a
stealth aircraft. The problem was that they could not make them fly
until they had the computer hardware and software that allowed them to
fly an otherwise unflyable plane. The computers are sending out all
sorts of control instructions that keep it airborne. If the computer
dies the plane will crash.

jinx the minx wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>> On 1/24/2016 11:44 AM, cibola de oro wrote:
>>> Doris Night wrote:
>>>> We don't ever use GPS - and I have GPS in my car. It's too complicated
>>>> to even bother with.
>>>
>>> Typical old fartism.
>>
>> Local dealer has a person that will go to the home or office of the new
>> car buyer to teach them how to use all the technology cars now have.
>> People are more comfortable at home after having the car a few days
>> versus the run through at the dealership when picking up the car.
>>
>
> That's a great idea! I just bought a new car 3 days ago, and even though
> I'm no where near being an "old fart" I'm amazed at how much car technology
> has changed since I bought my last car 10 years ago. The new car came with
> 2" of manuals I'm slogging through just to get up to speed (so to speak).
> This car came with everything but the kitchen sink!
>

Well don't leave us in suspense, what'd you buy???

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 13:30:50 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> A friend of mine is a retired airline pilot. He said that the pilots job
> these days is to watch the dials and gauges to make sure the computer is
> working properly.

I hope they still train on instrument flying and can switch to manual
if they need to. I hate computer driven everything. Our
washer/dryers and stoves have had computer parts for 25 years at
least, so it's cheaper to replace them than it is to fix them... sad.

--

sf

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:13:01 -0700, Janet B >
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:30:36 -0500, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >On 2016-01-24 12:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> > >> On 1/24/2016 11:31 AM, Gary wrote:
> > >>> Ophelia wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I hope I am never on the same road as a driverless car. I would get the
> > >>>> hellouta there.. fast.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> No, I wouldn't trust them!
> > >>>
> > >>> Me either. I certainly wouldn't trust riding in one right now while
> > >>> it's in it's infancy. Just a minor computer programming error or a
> > >>> hardware glitch/failure could end your life quickly.
> > >>>
> > >> It's a stupid idea. Who is going to *pay* to upgrade all the infrasture
> > >> in roads and highways? They'd have to be lined with electronic gadgets
> > >> that detect these driverless cars that constantly give them
> > >> instructions. Then, as you said Gary, oops!
> > >>
> > >> Follow the yellow brick road. Sure. Until it fails.
> > >>
> > >> I'd much rather drive myself, thank you.
> > >>
> > >
> > >I am assuming that they are guided at least in part by a GPS system. I
> > >am sure that everyone here who has a GPS has had some issues with them..
>
> Like what? My GPS does what I want it to do.
> >
> > There was a rotating antenna on the roof of the car. I'm assuming the
> > two men were in the car to take over if something didn't work right.
> > Janet US
>
> Driverless cars aren't some pipe dream, they're here and they function
> well on highways. City driving is a different matter. Tesla has
> decided that there must be a driver to take the wheel on streets with
> no dividing line (at least for the time being).
>
> --
>
> sf

Driverless cars will be a reality sooner than we think. This is a good thing because humans are too stupid, drunk, failure-prone, to be driving on the roads. What is surprising is that people think that a system that kills thousands of people a day is a pretty good idea and will stubbornly cling to it.

On 2016-01-24 1:06 PM, jinx the minx wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>> Local dealer has a person that will go to the home or office of the new
>> car buyer to teach them how to use all the technology cars now have.
>> People are more comfortable at home after having the car a few days
>> versus the run through at the dealership when picking up the car.
>>
>
> That's a great idea! I just bought a new car 3 days ago, and even though
> I'm no where near being an "old fart" I'm amazed at how much car technology
> has changed since I bought my last car 10 years ago. The new car came with
> 2" of manuals I'm slogging through just to get up to speed (so to speak).
> This car came with everything but the kitchen sink!
>

I don't think you have to go back even 10 years to see incredible
changes. My CRV is a 2013 that I bought new. Last summer I bought a
used Toyota for my wife. The manual transmission is not a problem
because we both like driving a standard, but.... no USB on the radio, no
BlueTooth. I had to sit down and read the manual for the CRV but I
figured everything out.

My younger brother is a bit of a technotard who rarely keeps a car more
than two years. He had to take his car back to the dealership to get
help pairing his phone to the BlueTooth. He only has one station auto
tuned on the radio. Every once in a while he accidentally finds some
feature on his car that he did not know about.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 10:24:46 -0800, sf > wrote:

>On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:13:01 -0700, Janet B >
>wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:30:36 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On 2016-01-24 12:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> >> On 1/24/2016 11:31 AM, Gary wrote:
>> >>> Ophelia wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I hope I am never on the same road as a driverless car. I would get the
>> >>>> hellouta there.. fast.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> No, I wouldn't trust them!
>> >>>
>> >>> Me either. I certainly wouldn't trust riding in one right now while
>> >>> it's in it's infancy. Just a minor computer programming error or a
>> >>> hardware glitch/failure could end your life quickly.
>> >>>
>> >> It's a stupid idea. Who is going to *pay* to upgrade all the infrasture
>> >> in roads and highways? They'd have to be lined with electronic gadgets
>> >> that detect these driverless cars that constantly give them
>> >> instructions. Then, as you said Gary, oops!
>> >>
>> >> Follow the yellow brick road. Sure. Until it fails.
>> >>
>> >> I'd much rather drive myself, thank you.
>> >>
>> >
>> >I am assuming that they are guided at least in part by a GPS system. I
>> >am sure that everyone here who has a GPS has had some issues with them.
>
>Like what? My GPS does what I want it to do.
>>
Good for your GPS. The area of California in question is home to many
tech companies. (I'm assuming you know this.) It was reasonable to
assume that the vehicle in question was undergoing testing. Having
humans in the vehicle to observe is what is done for testing.
Janet US

On 1/24/2016 2:09 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

>
> My younger brother is a bit of a technotard who rarely keeps a car more
> than two years. He had to take his car back to the dealership to get
> help pairing his phone to the BlueTooth. He only has one station auto
> tuned on the radio. Every once in a while he accidentally finds some
> feature on his car that he did not know about.
>
>

Most car manufacturers have standards for the dealer delivery. Hyundai
dealer paired my phone as one of the first steps in the process. Did
that on the last four cars. Later I got a questionnaire from Hyundai and
that was one of the questions they asked.

On 1/24/2016 1:23 PM, Janet B wrote:

>
> neighbors and friends have attended classes.
> We sort of house-mind for some friends while they are away. My
> husband goes over to start cars and let them run for at least a half
> hour or more each week. The cars correct him when tries to start them
> improperly. (got to run the cars each week or the computerized items
> that run constantly in the background in the vehicle, whether in use
> or not, will run down the battery). A dead battery is what happened
> last year. They were gone over 2 months and he was only running the
> vehicles 15-20 minutes.
> Janet US
>

Trickle charger. No need to start them.

I know of many cars that sat two weeks but there is a limit where the
battery will die. Theoretically, they should last a month if everything
is in good shape.

On 1/24/2016 1:01 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

> Lucky for you that you have a supply of old maps. They are becoming
> increasingly difficult to find. When I was in California last fall I did
> not need on at the beginning. We were staying in Newport Beach and
> roamed not to far from there, relying on the GPS to find our way. When
> we left NP and headed north I wanted a proper map. I tried the local
> tourism office, but it was not where it was listed in the phone book and
> in the internet. I tried several gas stations and convenience stores,
> even a grocery store. One place suggested the liquor store. No luck
> there either. It turned out that it was easy to get through LA and
> points north, and the GPS was helpful. I kept an eye out for a map but
> never did see one for sale.


Bookstore. Barnes & Noble carries a lot of maps for travel and some
local street maps.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:05:48 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
wrote:

> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
> > On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:13:01 -0700, Janet B >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:30:36 -0500, Dave Smith
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >On 2016-01-24 12:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> > > >> On 1/24/2016 11:31 AM, Gary wrote:
> > > >>> Ophelia wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I hope I am never on the same road as a driverless car. I would get the
> > > >>>> hellouta there.. fast.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> No, I wouldn't trust them!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Me either. I certainly wouldn't trust riding in one right now while
> > > >>> it's in it's infancy. Just a minor computer programming error or a
> > > >>> hardware glitch/failure could end your life quickly.
> > > >>>
> > > >> It's a stupid idea. Who is going to *pay* to upgrade all the infrasture
> > > >> in roads and highways? They'd have to be lined with electronic gadgets
> > > >> that detect these driverless cars that constantly give them
> > > >> instructions. Then, as you said Gary, oops!
> > > >>
> > > >> Follow the yellow brick road. Sure. Until it fails.
> > > >>
> > > >> I'd much rather drive myself, thank you.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >I am assuming that they are guided at least in part by a GPS system. I
> > > >am sure that everyone here who has a GPS has had some issues with them.
> >
> > Like what? My GPS does what I want it to do.
> > >
> > > There was a rotating antenna on the roof of the car. I'm assuming the
> > > two men were in the car to take over if something didn't work right.
> > > Janet US
> >
> > Driverless cars aren't some pipe dream, they're here and they function
> > well on highways. City driving is a different matter. Tesla has
> > decided that there must be a driver to take the wheel on streets with
> > no dividing line (at least for the time being).
> >
> > --
> >
> > sf
>
> Driverless cars will be a reality sooner than we think. This is a good thing because humans are too stupid, drunk, failure-prone, to be driving on the roads. What is surprising is that people think that a system that kills thousands of people a day is a pretty good idea and will stubbornly cling to it.

They will be here soon because frontline Boomers have turned 70 and
they still want to be independent. A lot of them have vision or
hearing problems in addition to the normal age related slower
reactions to ordinary highway events. I don't know about you, but I'd
rather be behind a self-driving car than what we used to call "old men
in hats".

--

sf

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 13:24:21 -0700, Janet B >
wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 10:24:46 -0800, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:13:01 -0700, Janet B >
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:30:36 -0500, Dave Smith
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 2016-01-24 12:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> >> >> On 1/24/2016 11:31 AM, Gary wrote:
> >> >>> Ophelia wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I hope I am never on the same road as a driverless car. I would get the
> >> >>>> hellouta there.. fast.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> No, I wouldn't trust them!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Me either. I certainly wouldn't trust riding in one right now while
> >> >>> it's in it's infancy. Just a minor computer programming error or a
> >> >>> hardware glitch/failure could end your life quickly.
> >> >>>
> >> >> It's a stupid idea. Who is going to *pay* to upgrade all the infrasture
> >> >> in roads and highways? They'd have to be lined with electronic gadgets
> >> >> that detect these driverless cars that constantly give them
> >> >> instructions. Then, as you said Gary, oops!
> >> >>
> >> >> Follow the yellow brick road. Sure. Until it fails.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'd much rather drive myself, thank you.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >I am assuming that they are guided at least in part by a GPS system. I
> >> >am sure that everyone here who has a GPS has had some issues with them.
> >
> >Like what? My GPS does what I want it to do.
> >>
> Good for your GPS. The area of California in question is home to many
> tech companies. (I'm assuming you know this.) It was reasonable to
> assume that the vehicle in question was undergoing testing. Having
> humans in the vehicle to observe is what is done for testing.
> Janet US

I still don't know what "problems" he's talking about. It never
malfunctions.

--

sf

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:46:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Hyundai dealer paired my phone as one of the first steps in the process.

Do you have the one that looks like a Bentley?


--

sf

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:01:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On 1/24/2016 1:01 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > Lucky for you that you have a supply of old maps. They are becoming
> > increasingly difficult to find. When I was in California last fall I did
> > not need on at the beginning. We were staying in Newport Beach and
> > roamed not to far from there, relying on the GPS to find our way. When
> > we left NP and headed north I wanted a proper map. I tried the local
> > tourism office, but it was not where it was listed in the phone book and
> > in the internet. I tried several gas stations and convenience stores,
> > even a grocery store. One place suggested the liquor store. No luck
> > there either. It turned out that it was easy to get through LA and
> > points north, and the GPS was helpful. I kept an eye out for a map but
> > never did see one for sale.
>
>
> Bookstore. Barnes & Noble carries a lot of maps for travel and some
> local street maps.

Good luck finding a bookstore these days.

--

sf

On 1/24/2016 3:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/24/2016 1:23 PM, Janet B wrote:
>

>> or not, will run down the battery). A dead battery is what happened
>> last year. They were gone over 2 months and he was only running the
>> vehicles 15-20 minutes.
>> Janet US
>>
>
> Trickle charger. No need to start them.
>
> I know of many cars that sat two weeks but there is a limit where the
> battery will die. Theoretically, they should last a month if everything
> is in good shape.

I had a car that would not start if it sat too long, a week or so.
I got myself a battery jumper so I didn't have to worry about it.

nancy

dsi1 wrote:
> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:13:01 -0700, Janet B >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:30:36 -0500, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2016-01-24 12:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>> On 1/24/2016 11:31 AM, Gary wrote:
>>>>>> Ophelia wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope I am never on the same road as a driverless car. I would get the
>>>>>>> hellouta there.. fast.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I wouldn't trust them!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Me either. I certainly wouldn't trust riding in one right now while
>>>>>> it's in it's infancy. Just a minor computer programming error or a
>>>>>> hardware glitch/failure could end your life quickly.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's a stupid idea. Who is going to *pay* to upgrade all the infrasture
>>>>> in roads and highways? They'd have to be lined with electronic gadgets
>>>>> that detect these driverless cars that constantly give them
>>>>> instructions. Then, as you said Gary, oops!
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow the yellow brick road. Sure. Until it fails.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd much rather drive myself, thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am assuming that they are guided at least in part by a GPS system. I
>>>> am sure that everyone here who has a GPS has had some issues with them.
>>
>> Like what? My GPS does what I want it to do.
>>>
>>> There was a rotating antenna on the roof of the car. I'm assuming the
>>> two men were in the car to take over if something didn't work right.
>>> Janet US
>>
>> Driverless cars aren't some pipe dream, they're here and they function
>> well on highways. City driving is a different matter. Tesla has
>> decided that there must be a driver to take the wheel on streets with
>> no dividing line (at least for the time being).
>>
>> --
>>
>> sf
>
> Driverless cars will be a reality sooner than we think. This is a good thing because humans are too stupid, drunk, failure-prone, to be driving on the roads. What is surprising is that people think that a system that kills thousands of people a day is a pretty good idea and will stubbornly cling to it.
>
+1!!!!!

On 2016-01-24 4:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/24/2016 1:01 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> Lucky for you that you have a supply of old maps. They are becoming
>> increasingly difficult to find. When I was in California last fall I did
>> not need on at the beginning. We were staying in Newport Beach and
>> roamed not to far from there, relying on the GPS to find our way. When
>> we left NP and headed north I wanted a proper map. I tried the local
>> tourism office, but it was not where it was listed in the phone book and
>> in the internet. I tried several gas stations and convenience stores,
>> even a grocery store. One place suggested the liquor store. No luck
>> there either. It turned out that it was easy to get through LA and
>> points north, and the GPS was helpful. I kept an eye out for a map but
>> never did see one for sale.
>
>
> Bookstore. Barnes & Noble carries a lot of maps for travel and some
> local street maps.

Good idea..... but when you are travelling you may have a hard time
finding a bookstore. It didn't help that it was a stat holiday the day
we set off. I might have made a point of looking before we left if I
had known that road maps would be so hard to find. I see them at gas
stations here, but I usually get them at tourist information here. Maybe
there... if you can find one.

I had a heard time getting suitable maps when driving around Europe.
The one I got for Denmark was actually a book with about 40 pages of
maps in great detail. Once you got close to a place you would have no
trouble finding you way, but you had to check out several pages to get
the big picture for the route there. France and Germany were both
problematic. Both are large countries with an astounding number of
cities, towns, hamlets and roads. Most of the maps of the whole country
show only the larger centres roadways. To find your way around locally
you need a regional map that shows all the towns and secondary routes.

On the way to the Netherlands we stopped at a rest area and bought the
only map the had of the Netherlands and it turned out to be of central
Holland. Not a problem, I thought, because it included our destination
for that night. It turned out to be a problem because of the scale,
something my navigator wife had a lot of trouble with. We were heading
for a hamlet near Arnhem. As we crossed a bridge over a river she told
me that we had to take an exit about 2 miles past the river. I missed
it because it was actually 200 yards. Not a problem, she said, we can
turn around about 10 miles down the road. It wasn't 10 miles. It was
more like one mile. She just couldn't adjust to the scale.

On 2016-01-24 4:27 PM, sf wrote:

>> Bookstore. Barnes & Noble carries a lot of maps for travel and some
>> local street maps.
>
> Good luck finding a bookstore these days.
>

I think the take away message is to go to a bookstore near home before
you go on the trip and find yourself needing a map.

On 1/24/2016 6:25 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

>
> I had a heard time getting suitable maps when driving around Europe.
> The one I got for Denmark was actually a book with about 40 pages of
> maps in great detail. Once you got close to a place you would have no
> trouble finding you way, but you had to check out several pages to get
> the big picture for the route there. France and Germany were both
> problematic.

Maps are still good to get an overview of where you are going. Last GPS
I bought I got the maps of Europe too. I found it very helpful
especially when it said to turn and showed the street. The map shows
street names in an unfamiliar language that are 36 letters long.

On 2016-01-24 8:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/24/2016 6:25 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

> Maps are still good to get an overview of where you are going. Last GPS
> I bought I got the maps of Europe too. I found it very helpful
> especially when it said to turn and showed the street. The map shows
> street names in an unfamiliar language that are 36 letters long.
>
Street names aren't too hard to coup with if you know a bit of the
local language. I can get by to some degree in French and German. I
found it trickier in Denmark where they have places with names using
strange letter combinations that make no sense to an English speaking
brain. .... like Naestved, Jyderup. It was worse in Sweden, where some
strange letter combinations have a prounciaion that makes no sense at
all. My son went to Russia last fall and had done a lot of online
research about some of his destinations. They were mostly written with
English spellings, but over there they use a different alphabet.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:44:39 -0500, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 1/24/2016 3:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 1/24/2016 1:23 PM, Janet B wrote:
>>
>
>>> or not, will run down the battery). A dead battery is what happened
>>> last year. They were gone over 2 months and he was only running the
>>> vehicles 15-20 minutes.
>>> Janet US
>>>
>>
>> Trickle charger. No need to start them.
>>
>> I know of many cars that sat two weeks but there is a limit where the
>> battery will die. Theoretically, they should last a month if everything
>> is in good shape.

Most late model cars have lots of electonic gadgets that drain the
battery continuously, unless you drive it most every day the battery
will run down, especially in cold weather.

>I had a car that would not start if it sat too long, a week or so.
>I got myself a battery jumper so I didn't have to worry about it.

What's a battery jumper? Do you mean booster cables... good to have
but you need another vehical.

On 1/24/2016 10:38 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:44:39 -0500, Nancy Young
> > wrote:

>> I had a car that would not start if it sat too long, a week or so.
>> I got myself a battery jumper so I didn't have to worry about it.
>
> What's a battery jumper? Do you mean booster cables... good to have
> but you need another vehical.

Exactly, that wouldn't work for me. It's a little
rectangular sort of suitcase or radio looking thing that
you keep charged. It is the other car. Search on battery
charger. In my mind it doesn't charge the battery, but it
jumps it.

nancy

On 1/24/2016 11:25 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 1/24/2016 10:38 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:44:39 -0500, Nancy Young
>> > wrote:
>
>>> I had a car that would not start if it sat too long, a week or so.
>>> I got myself a battery jumper so I didn't have to worry about it.
>>
>> What's a battery jumper? Do you mean booster cables... good to have
>> but you need another vehical.
>
> Exactly, that wouldn't work for me. It's a little
> rectangular sort of suitcase or radio looking thing that
> you keep charged. It is the other car. Search on battery
> charger. In my mind it doesn't charge the battery, but it
> jumps it.

To be clearer, it's a battery with jumper cables attached.
You charge it by plugging it in to an outlet.

nancy

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 11:26:20 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:46:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> > Hyundai dealer paired my phone as one of the first steps in the process.
>
> Do you have the one that looks like a Bentley?
>
>
> --
>
> sf

Hyundai has borrowed some styling from Jaguar, Audi, BMW, and Bentley in the past but most recently, the logo for the new Hyundai luxury marque, Genesis, has been seen as a copycat logo. I like the logo - it's a cleaner, more stylized, version of the bird wings of the Bentley.

I don't think the new Genesis cars have that brutal, muscular, look of the Bentleys but the Chrysler 300 sure does - they even have a winged logo like Bentleys too.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 20:36:46 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
wrote:

> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 11:26:20 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
> > On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:46:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >
> > > Hyundai dealer paired my phone as one of the first steps in the process.
> >
> > Do you have the one that looks like a Bentley?
> >
> >
>
> Hyundai has borrowed some styling from Jaguar, Audi, BMW, and Bentley in the past but most recently, the logo for the new Hyundai luxury marque, Genesis, has been seen as a copycat logo. I like the logo - it's a cleaner, more stylized, version of the bird wings of the Bentley.

My husband's second elder sister had a Hyundai when they were fairly
new to the market and she called it her "mini-mercedes", because
that's what they looked like back then.
>
> I don't think the new Genesis cars have that brutal, muscular, look of the Bentleys but the Chrysler 300 sure does - they even have a winged logo like Bentleys too.
>

Hubby pointed out the mock Bentley version this afternoon - I expected
to see something smaller, so I was surprised by how big it was.

--

sf

dsi1 wrote:
> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 11:26:20 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:46:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> Hyundai dealer paired my phone as one of the first steps in the process.
>>
>> Do you have the one that looks like a Bentley?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> sf
>
> Hyundai has borrowed some styling from Jaguar, Audi, BMW, and Bentley in the past but most recently, the logo for the new Hyundai luxury marque, Genesis, has been seen as a copycat logo. I like the logo - it's a cleaner, more stylized, version of the bird wings of the Bentley.
>
> I don't think the new Genesis cars have that brutal, muscular, look of the Bentleys but the Chrysler 300 sure does - they even have a winged logo like Bentleys too.
>
>
>
What we need to match owners is a giant rolling dildo!

https://leafprobably.files.wordpress...7/dildocar.jpg

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 7:08:26 PM UTC-10, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 20:36:46 -0800 (PST), dsi1 <>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 11:26:20 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
> > > On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:46:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hyundai dealer paired my phone as one of the first steps in the process.
> > >
> > > Do you have the one that looks like a Bentley?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Hyundai has borrowed some styling from Jaguar, Audi, BMW, and Bentley in the past but most recently, the logo for the new Hyundai luxury marque, Genesis, has been seen as a copycat logo. I like the logo - it's a cleaner, more stylized, version of the bird wings of the Bentley.
>
> My husband's second elder sister had a Hyundai when they were fairly
> new to the market and she called it her "mini-mercedes", because
> that's what they looked like back then.

Those early Excels were pretty awful cars because of a cheap build. They had to licence the motors from Mitsubish because they didn't have the wherewithal to design engines of their own. Hyundai now has the ability to design great engines. They are as advanced as any on the planet. My guess is that the Genesis marque should do well because the Koreans love that type of automobile.

> >
> > I don't think the new Genesis cars have that brutal, muscular, look of the Bentleys but the Chrysler 300 sure does - they even have a winged logo like Bentleys too.
> >
>
> Hubby pointed out the mock Bentley version this afternoon - I expected
> to see something smaller, so I was surprised by how big it was.
>
> --
>
> sf

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 23:25:08 -0500, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 1/24/2016 10:38 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:44:39 -0500, Nancy Young
>> > wrote:
>
>>> I had a car that would not start if it sat too long, a week or so.
>>> I got myself a battery jumper so I didn't have to worry about it.
>>
>> What's a battery jumper? Do you mean booster cables... good to have
>> but you need another vehical.
>
>Exactly, that wouldn't work for me. It's a little
>rectangular sort of suitcase or radio looking thing that
>you keep charged. It is the other car. Search on battery
>charger. In my mind it doesn't charge the battery, but it
>jumps it.
>
>nancy

I have a battery charger, it has a setting that will actually start
the car. I've seen those portable car starters too, it's like a small
rechargeable car battery, supposed to hold enough charge to start a
car when the car's battery fails due to it being discharged, but they
only hold enough charge for 2-3 bursts, then if the car won't start or
even turn over there's some other problem... if you find yourself
using it often you probably need a new battery, or your battery is not
charging properly while running... have it checked out. Sometimes in
winter when I haven't driven for more than a week and the temperature
has been down in the single digits or lower and when I turn the key I
can hear it straining, sometimes it will start but then I don't want
to leave home with so weak a charge, so I put my battery on the
trickle charge setting over night, that's the best setting for fully
charging a battery. The other alternative is a heated garage. My
diesel tractor battery has lasted twelve years now, that's because
when it's turned off, unlike modern automobiles, nothing draws off the
battery. But still in cold weather I need to plug in the engine block
heater, there's an electric heater in the oil pan that warms the oil
and in turn warms the engine block, only needs about 20 minutes, then
it starts right up with no strain. I also add anti-jell fluid to the
diesel fuel or in cold weather it won't flow through the line from the
fuel tank, it'll start and run for a few minutes and then stall, same
as if the fuel tank was empty. In modern autos there are many little
computer thingies that are constantly energized and draw power even
when the engine is turned off... even in warm weather those thingies
can run a battery down enough in two weeks that it won't start your
car... even the modern sound systems are always drawing current,
especially those with a built-in anti-theft system. And make sure all
the doors are properly latched or those electric lock sensors will
drain down the battery in 24 hours, as will the dome light... I leave
mine in the off position so it doesn't come on when a door is opened.
You might want to check your car at night to make sure no lights are
on, especially small dashboard warning lights. If you find yourself
needing to use your battery booster box often have the dealer run a
diagnostic check, there's probably a short somewhere in the vehical's
diagnostic system, the on board computers that are constantly checking
systems same as an anti virus program does your PC at home. Even your
iPhone is always drawing on its battery even when the phone is turned
off, that's why the battery is low in two weeks even though you
haven't turned on the phone... the iPhone's GPS is always energized,
so is the GPS built into modern automobiles... it's the black box used
to locate you and/or your automobile.

On 1/22/2016 6:54 PM, wrote:
> I think it's odd that UPS trucks don't have gps, you know they'd get a big discount for getting 10 million gps at once. I don't think fed ex trucks have it either.
>
They do have GPS. It's built in to their onboard telematics system.

There's a lot of reasons that companies employing drivers would want
GPS installed on their trucks. One of them is to keep track of where
their vehicles (and drivers) are located. Not so much UPS which has a
very very tight delivery route schedule. But, for example, the
regional liquor distributorship one of my siblings worked for put them
in their trucks, and immediately began nabbing drivers for goofing off
on the job. One of the guys actually drove home for a long nap in the
middle of his delivery route. They had the data to prove it, and they
nailed him. Trucks get stolen and the gps data system helps locate
them afterward. Some of the major mapping companies obtain mapping
data from GPS devices they've installed on trucks in collaboration
with a number of companies. It makes for faster and more accurate map
updating.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 23:33:34 -0500, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 1/24/2016 11:25 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>> On 1/24/2016 10:38 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:44:39 -0500, Nancy Young
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> I had a car that would not start if it sat too long, a week or so.
>>>> I got myself a battery jumper so I didn't have to worry about it.
>>>
>>> What's a battery jumper? Do you mean booster cables... good to have
>>> but you need another vehical.
>>
>> Exactly, that wouldn't work for me. It's a little
>> rectangular sort of suitcase or radio looking thing that
>> you keep charged. It is the other car. Search on battery
>> charger. In my mind it doesn't charge the battery, but it
>> jumps it.
>
>To be clearer, it's a battery with jumper cables attached.
>You charge it by plugging it in to an outlet.
>
>nancy

Right, a portable rechargeable car battery... tow truck drivers use
them instead of booster cables... cop cars carry them too. When you
have a new car battery installed the mechanic connects one in place of
your battery before disconnecting it in order to maintain the vehicals
electronic settings, otherwise you'd even need to reset the car's
digital clock.

On 1/24/2016 11:36 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 11:26:20 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:46:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> Hyundai dealer paired my phone as one of the first steps in the process.
>>
>> Do you have the one that looks like a Bentley?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> sf
>
> Hyundai has borrowed some styling from Jaguar, Audi, BMW, and Bentley in the past but most recently, the logo for the new Hyundai luxury marque, Genesis, has been seen as a copycat logo. I like the logo - it's a cleaner, more stylized, version of the bird wings of the Bentley.
>

I have a Genesis with the Ultra package. All sorts of goodies. Right
now I really appreciate the heated steering wheel. Yes, it has wings
similar to Bentley on the front.

Hyundai has hired people from Mercedes and Audi in the past and you can
see their influence in the styling. They are going to be going hard
after the luxury market with the new Genesis brand. They've come a long
way with quality and reliability.

On 1/25/2016 8:49 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/24/2016 11:36 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 11:26:20 AM UTC-10, sf wrote:
>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:46:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hyundai dealer paired my phone as one of the first steps in the
>>>> process.
>>>
>>> Do you have the one that looks like a Bentley?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> sf
>>
>> Hyundai has borrowed some styling from Jaguar, Audi, BMW, and Bentley
>> in the past but most recently, the logo for the new Hyundai luxury
>> marque, Genesis, has been seen as a copycat logo. I like the logo -
>> it's a cleaner, more stylized, version of the bird wings of the Bentley.
>>
>
> I have a Genesis with the Ultra package. All sorts of goodies. Right
> now I really appreciate the heated steering wheel. Yes, it has wings
> similar to Bentley on the front.
>
> Hyundai has hired people from Mercedes and Audi in the past and you can
> see their influence in the styling. They are going to be going hard
> after the luxury market with the new Genesis brand. They've come a long
> way with quality and reliability.
>

Mercedes was at one time interested in purchasing or building Hyundai 4
cylinder engines for their cars. Hyundai balked at that deal. Hee hee.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:01:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 1/24/2016 1:01 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> > Lucky for you that you have a supply of old maps. They are becoming
>> > increasingly difficult to find. When I was in California last fall I
>> > did
>> > not need on at the beginning. We were staying in Newport Beach and
>> > roamed not to far from there, relying on the GPS to find our way. When
>> > we left NP and headed north I wanted a proper map. I tried the local
>> > tourism office, but it was not where it was listed in the phone book
>> > and
>> > in the internet. I tried several gas stations and convenience stores,
>> > even a grocery store. One place suggested the liquor store. No luck
>> > there either. It turned out that it was easy to get through LA and
>> > points north, and the GPS was helpful. I kept an eye out for a map
>> > but
>> > never did see one for sale.
>>
>>
>> Bookstore. Barnes & Noble carries a lot of maps for travel and some
>> local street maps.
>
> Good luck finding a bookstore these days.

Why? We have them here.