"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> In my fairly worthless opinion, anyone that wants to nit pick about
> saving the earth's resources should just kill themselves right now.
> Think how much that would save in energy, pollution, and resources
> used just for your one life on a daily basis....then for the many
> years that you might have lived on.

Don't let them get you down, Gary! What you do and how you live your life
is nobody's business but yours!

If they don't like it ... I leave you to fill the rest in <g>




--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:35:34 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:38:53 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
>> >
>> > You are on a more northerly latitude than him!
>>
>> As I have already said, we are on the same latitude as Moscow.
>
>Keep in mind though - you do still get some warming effect from the
>Gulf Stream and Moscow does not.

I know that Gulf Stream, once when we were back in Scotland in the
summer my father said I would get some swimming time, he said the Gulf
Stream warmed the water. Run down the beach, dive into the water,
Gulf Stream???? Warm???? Bloody hell !

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:52:47 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>>
>>> On 1/27/2016 6:54 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I run water down the drain, it isn't wasted. It's treated,
>>>> discharged into Lake Erie (via the Huron River), and is then available
>>>> for Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo and points east. Our water authority
>>>> brags that it's cleaner after it leaves the wastewater treatment plant
>>>> than it was when it entered the water treatment plant in Lake St. Clair.
>>>
>>> My problem is that it does not go where it's needed ... back into the
>>> reservoir. I pass by it all the time, it's only a mile or so from my
>>> house, and when you see a lot of shoreline and 'sand bars' you know
>>> we're running low on fresh water.
>>>
>>> Our sewage is, of course, treated, then sent out into the ocean where it
>>> would have gone on its own anyway.
>>
>> Waste water, no matter what happens to it, is still recycled and
>> renewed. It doesn't go down the drain right into outer space. Ocean
>> water and polluted water still evaporates and comes back down as clean
>> rain water.
>
> It's not free. When you waste water, your money goes down the drain
> with it.
>
+1!

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 11:08:48 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> On 1/27/2016 10:27 AM, Gary wrote:
>> > An adult Panda bear eats way too much bamboo and poops out up to 60lbs
>> > of poop each day.
>> > Just a little worthless trivia for all here.
>> >
>> Did you see the Panda in the snow at the National Zoo?
>>
>> http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...-washington-dc
>
>
>Here's a pic of the giraffes at the National Zoo...same storm last
>week. Did you see this?
>
> http://i67.tinypic.com/n3tf0z.jpg
>
>>
>> Why would you begrudge Pandas their bamboo?
>
>Why did you think that I do? Panda's are cool. They are in danger of
>extinction because of way too many cheap Chinese people encroching on
>their habitat. Bamboo grows like weeds and is actually hard to get rid
>of in your yard.
>
>> It isn't their fault it's
>> the only thing they can eat. It isn't the fault of koalas they subsist
>> on eucalyptus. Just a fact of nature. They don't waste water by
>> running it down the sink!
>>
>> I'll admit since I do not live in an drought area I don't think about
>> water conservation much. But I do not run water unnecesarily.
>> Definitely not to warm plates.
>
>That's where you are not thinking. I said I will occasionally keep a
>bowl warm (or you could do a stack of plates) but it's not constant
>running water. Put hot water in right before serving to warm the
>thing. My God, people just assume the extreme here. This is a silly
>ng.
>
>Then wideASS bobblehead barbie assumes that renters waste water.
> Another silly assumption.
>
>Maybe some of us catch the water until hot and use it for other
>things.
>Maybe some of us do realize that we pay for water, with a bill or it's
> included in the rent.
>
>Maybe I live right on top of two giant water heaters that supply
>hot water to 23 other apartments.
>
>So Maybe I get almost instant hot water.
>
>In my fairly worthless opinion, anyone that wants to nit pick about
>saving the earth's resources should just kill themselves right now.
>Think how much that would save in energy, pollution, and resources
>used just for your one life on a daily basis....then for the many
>years that you might have lived on.
>
>And don't forget about the poor Walmart employees being exploited on a
>daily basis.

I think you missed a few

> wrote in message
news
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:35:34 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
>>Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:38:53 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
>>> >
>>> > You are on a more northerly latitude than him!
>>>
>>> As I have already said, we are on the same latitude as Moscow.
>>
>>Keep in mind though - you do still get some warming effect from the
>>Gulf Stream and Moscow does not.
>
> I know that Gulf Stream, once when we were back in Scotland in the
> summer my father said I would get some swimming time, he said the Gulf
> Stream warmed the water. Run down the beach, dive into the water,
> Gulf Stream???? Warm???? Bloody hell !

LOL True that!! I have never put a toe into the seas around Scotland
without it freezing ... even on the West Coast I won't even go into the
East coast. I was raised on the East coast and I have never known the sea
be anything other than *very* cold! I can remember as a small child,
playing on the beach in my hat and coat.

BUT that isn't really the issue. No matter how cold or hot, makes no
difference to the heating and hot water system we use.

The combi boiler system costs much less to run than other systems, is far
more efficient and takes up much less space. The temperature difference
between here and some parts of the US has nothing to do with it.





--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Brooklyn1 wrote:
> itsjoannotjoann wrote:
>>
>> It was. It was purchased around 1951 and was still going
>> strong until she had to go in the nursing home.
>>
>> When I moved away from home I burned several pans of food
>> until I got the hang of an electric stove. Going back to
>> a gas range was a bit of an adjustment as well. I had to
>> get used to that instant response from the burners. But
>> it was sorta like riding a bicycle; it all came back to
>> me.
>>
>> :-))
>
> Isn't it more like sex... after going without for a while just hop on
> and it all comes nstantly.
>

No stamina, old man?

On 1/28/2016 10:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "graham" > wrote in message

>> I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
>> Gas
>> fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
>> but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink heaters
>> are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>
> Do they run the central heating too?
>
Not the kind we've had in NJ. One heater for hot water, one
heater/boiler/furnace for the radiators.

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/28/2016 10:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "graham" > wrote in message
>
>>> I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
>>> Gas
>>> fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
>>> but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink
>>> heaters
>>> are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>>
>> Do they run the central heating too?
>>
> Not the kind we've had in NJ. One heater for hot water, one
> heater/boiler/furnace for the radiators.

Ok. Is it a hot climate there?

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 1/28/2016 12:41 PM, Ophelia wrote:
> "S Viemeister" > wrote
>> On 1/28/2016 10:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>> "graham" > wrote in message
>>>> I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
>>>> Gas fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
>>>> but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink
>>>> heaters are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>>>
>>> Do they run the central heating too?
>>>
>> Not the kind we've had in NJ. One heater for hot water, one
>> heater/boiler/furnace for the radiators.
>
> Ok. Is it a hot climate there?
>
In the summer, yes. In the winter it can be bitterly cold.

On 28/01/2016 8:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 28/01/2016 1:41 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:27:29 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>>>> news >>>>> > On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:43:09 -0700, cibola de oro >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> > I have instant hot water, none is wasted here.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> You brag like the spoiled rich bitch who went to Swiss boarding
>>>>> >> school,
>>>>> >> you risible ****.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > She should preface her just use "hot water" puffery with the fact
>>>>> > that
>>>>> > the suggestion only works for water wasters and those with an
>>>>> instant
>>>>> > hot water dispenser.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is it puffery??? Is an instant water heater so unusual in the
>>>>> US???
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> It is odd. I always though USA was far ahead of us technologically yet
>>> in
>>> many things, you are far behind. I don't understand it! As for simple
>>> instant water heaters, we had them in the 50s.
>>>
>> I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
>> Gas
>> fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
>> but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink heaters
>> are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>
> Do they run the central heating too?
>
>
>
>
I replied to this post but it's not showing.

On 28/01/2016 8:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 28/01/2016 1:41 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:27:29 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>>>> news >>>>> > On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:43:09 -0700, cibola de oro >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> > I have instant hot water, none is wasted here.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> You brag like the spoiled rich bitch who went to Swiss boarding
>>>>> >> school,
>>>>> >> you risible ****.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > She should preface her just use "hot water" puffery with the fact
>>>>> > that
>>>>> > the suggestion only works for water wasters and those with an
>>>>> instant
>>>>> > hot water dispenser.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is it puffery??? Is an instant water heater so unusual in the
>>>>> US???
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> It is odd. I always though USA was far ahead of us technologically yet
>>> in
>>> many things, you are far behind. I don't understand it! As for simple
>>> instant water heaters, we had them in the 50s.
>>>
>> I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
>> Gas
>> fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
>> but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink heaters
>> are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>
> Do they run the central heating too?
>
>
>
>
The overwhelming majority of houses here have forced air heating. There
are rare cases of water heating, usually sub-floor. In fact, my son built
a house last year (for which the contractor still owes him a few grand)
which
has sub-floor heating. Others he has built even have some sub-floor
cooling for wine storage.
Water heating is more economical to run but we have wild swings in
temperature here in the winter and if it warms up outside, the heating
can't respond due to the heat sink.
There is a chinook blowing today so the temp is above freezing. However,
if the Arctic Front moves south, overnight temps can drop below -20C (as
it did a couple of weeks ago) or even below -30C, which we haven't
suffered for a couple of winters.
Graham

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 10:37:11 AM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
> "graham" > wrote in message

> > I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one. Gas
> > fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
> > but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink heaters
> > are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>
> Do they run the central heating too?

Probably not. The majority of heating systems in the U.S. are
forced-air, which also allows us to install central air-conditioning,
since so much of the U.S. is hot in the summer.

I just saw a TV home improvement show install a boiler with a
heat exchanger that provided hot air to ductwork rather than
hot water to radiators, but that's very unusual. The most
common thing is a big gas flame with an air-to-air heat exchanger.

Cindy Hamilton

On 1/28/2016 10:32 AM, Dave Smith wrote:

> move when the fan kicked in. The down side is that there seem to be a
> lot of duct cleaning businesses that try to sell you their service more
> often than it needs to be done, and some that claim that they did it for
> you in the past and it is due again, even though you have never done
> business with them.

When the guy was leaving my house after doing the ducts, he
said My company says it should be done every two years, while
shaking his head No, you don't. I laughed and said Maybe not
every two years but probably more than every 50 years. Right!

nancy

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:42:44 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:35:34 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
> >Ophelia wrote:
> >>
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:38:53 -0000, "Ophelia" >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
> >> >
> >> > You are on a more northerly latitude than him!
> >>
> >> As I have already said, we are on the same latitude as Moscow.
> >
> >Keep in mind though - you do still get some warming effect from the
> >Gulf Stream and Moscow does not.
>
> I know that Gulf Stream, once when we were back in Scotland in the
> summer my father said I would get some swimming time, he said the Gulf
> Stream warmed the water. Run down the beach, dive into the water,
> Gulf Stream???? Warm???? Bloody hell !

Billy Connolly. "Pale Blue Scottish Person"

Cindy Hamilton

"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
...
> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 10:37:11 AM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
>> "graham" > wrote in message
>
>> > I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
>> > Gas
>> > fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
>> > but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink
>> > heaters
>> > are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>>
>> Do they run the central heating too?
>
> Probably not. The majority of heating systems in the U.S. are
> forced-air, which also allows us to install central air-conditioning,
> since so much of the U.S. is hot in the summer.
>
> I just saw a TV home improvement show install a boiler with a
> heat exchanger that provided hot air to ductwork rather than
> hot water to radiators, but that's very unusual. The most
> common thing is a big gas flame with an air-to-air heat exchanger.

Interesting. Of course you say that it is cheaper to run in US. Fuel here
is expensive so using the smallest amount is good.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"graham" > wrote in message
...
> On 28/01/2016 8:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 28/01/2016 1:41 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:27:29 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>>>>> news >>>>>> > On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:43:09 -0700, cibola de oro >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >> > I have instant hot water, none is wasted here.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> You brag like the spoiled rich bitch who went to Swiss boarding
>>>>>> >> school,
>>>>>> >> you risible ****.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > She should preface her just use "hot water" puffery with the fact
>>>>>> > that
>>>>>> > the suggestion only works for water wasters and those with an
>>>>>> instant
>>>>>> > hot water dispenser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is it puffery??? Is an instant water heater so unusual in the
>>>>>> US???
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> It is odd. I always though USA was far ahead of us technologically yet
>>>> in
>>>> many things, you are far behind. I don't understand it! As for
>>>> simple
>>>> instant water heaters, we had them in the 50s.
>>>>
>>> I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
>>> Gas
>>> fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
>>> but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink
>>> heaters
>>> are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>>
>> Do they run the central heating too?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> The overwhelming majority of houses here have forced air heating. There
> are rare cases of water heating, usually sub-floor. In fact, my son built
> a house last year (for which the contractor still owes him a few grand)
> which
> has sub-floor heating. Others he has built even have some sub-floor
> cooling for wine storage.
> Water heating is more economical to run but we have wild swings in
> temperature here in the winter and if it warms up outside, the heating
> can't respond due to the heat sink.
> There is a chinook blowing today so the temp is above freezing. However,
> if the Arctic Front moves south, overnight temps can drop below -20C (as
> it did a couple of weeks ago) or even below -30C, which we haven't
> suffered for a couple of winters.

I was surprised to read that. You are a scientist so I guess you feel that
is good for that country. If you were in UK would you not look at a much
cheaper and more effective alternative?

We have another storm (Gertrude) blowing already and it is bloody cold
outside.




--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
...
> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:42:44 AM UTC-5,
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:35:34 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>
>> >Ophelia wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:38:53 -0000, "Ophelia"
>> >> > >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
>> >> >
>> >> > You are on a more northerly latitude than him!
>> >>
>> >> As I have already said, we are on the same latitude as Moscow.
>> >
>> >Keep in mind though - you do still get some warming effect from the
>> >Gulf Stream and Moscow does not.
>>
>> I know that Gulf Stream, once when we were back in Scotland in the
>> summer my father said I would get some swimming time, he said the Gulf
>> Stream warmed the water. Run down the beach, dive into the water,
>> Gulf Stream???? Warm???? Bloody hell !
>
> Billy Connolly. "Pale Blue Scottish Person"

LOL yes!!!! Billy knows)))


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/28/2016 12:41 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "S Viemeister" > wrote
>>> On 1/28/2016 10:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>> "graham" > wrote in message
>>>>> I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
>>>>> Gas fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years
>>>>> or so
>>>>> but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink
>>>>> heaters are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>>>>
>>>> Do they run the central heating too?
>>>>
>>> Not the kind we've had in NJ. One heater for hot water, one
>>> heater/boiler/furnace for the radiators.
>>
>> Ok. Is it a hot climate there?
>>
> In the summer, yes. In the winter it can be bitterly cold.


Given the chance to have a combi where you are, would you choose it?




--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 1/28/2016 1:18 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>
> Given the chance to have a combi where you are, would you choose it?
>
Definitely.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:56:11 -0000, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>>
>
>>>>> Actually it's not the same, an on demand tankless water heater is only
>>>>> for hot water, not house heating. I had one installed two years ago,
>>>>> it long ago paid for itself by cutting my water heating energy use by
>>>>> 2/3... and takes very little space, it's about the size of a desk top
>>>>> PC... mine is on my basement wall, in warmer climates it can be
>>>>> outdoors.
>>>>> https://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mine isn't much bigger than a desktop computer and it does serve the
>>>>house
>>>>heating as well as the hot water. Oh and it hangs on the wall in a
>>>>cupboard.
>>>
>>> All I can think is you're in a location of much more mild weather...
>>> your system wouldn't work here where temperatures in winter are often
>>> in the minuses, as in below zero F.
>>
>> LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
>
>Just to add, are you aware we are on the same latitude as Moscow?

I've no idea how cold your winters get, here long periods at 0ºF and
lower is common. My first winter in the northern catskills I looked
at my little wireless weather station and it showed -40º, I didn't
notice that minus sign and walked outside with no coat, just a
t-shirt... I very quickly went back inside, I looked at my weather
station again and noticed that little minus sign... -40º is so cold
hell would definitely freeze over. If you are near sea level and
close to the sea I suspect your winters aren't nearly as cold as they
are here at about 2,000 feet above sea level and inland.

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:56:11 -0000, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>
>>>>>> Actually it's not the same, an on demand tankless water heater is
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> for hot water, not house heating. I had one installed two years ago,
>>>>>> it long ago paid for itself by cutting my water heating energy use by
>>>>>> 2/3... and takes very little space, it's about the size of a desk top
>>>>>> PC... mine is on my basement wall, in warmer climates it can be
>>>>>> outdoors.
>>>>>> https://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Mine isn't much bigger than a desktop computer and it does serve the
>>>>>house
>>>>>heating as well as the hot water. Oh and it hangs on the wall in a
>>>>>cupboard.
>>>>
>>>> All I can think is you're in a location of much more mild weather...
>>>> your system wouldn't work here where temperatures in winter are often
>>>> in the minuses, as in below zero F.
>>>
>>> LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
>>
>>Just to add, are you aware we are on the same latitude as Moscow?
>
> I've no idea how cold your winters get, here long periods at 0ºF and
> lower is common. My first winter in the northern catskills I looked
> at my little wireless weather station and it showed -40º, I didn't
> notice that minus sign and walked outside with no coat, just a
> t-shirt... I very quickly went back inside, I looked at my weather
> station again and noticed that little minus sign... -40º is so cold
> hell would definitely freeze over. If you are near sea level and
> close to the sea I suspect your winters aren't nearly as cold as they
> are here at about 2,000 feet above sea level and inland.

That really isn't the point! We were discussing the means of heating water
and central heating. You brought it up about temps in other places.



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/28/2016 1:18 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> Given the chance to have a combi where you are, would you choose it?
>>
> Definitely.

Good enough for me!


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 28/01/2016 11:16 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 28/01/2016 8:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "graham" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 28/01/2016 1:41 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:27:29 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> news >>>>>>> > On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:43:09 -0700, cibola de oro >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> > I have instant hot water, none is wasted here.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> You brag like the spoiled rich bitch who went to Swiss boarding
>>>>>>> >> school,
>>>>>>> >> you risible ****.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > She should preface her just use "hot water" puffery with the fact
>>>>>>> > that
>>>>>>> > the suggestion only works for water wasters and those with an
>>>>>>> instant
>>>>>>> > hot water dispenser.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why is it puffery??? Is an instant water heater so unusual in the
>>>>>>> US???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is odd. I always though USA was far ahead of us technologically
>>>>> yet
>>>>> in
>>>>> many things, you are far behind. I don't understand it! As for
>>>>> simple
>>>>> instant water heaters, we had them in the 50s.
>>>>>
>>>> I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
>>>> Gas
>>>> fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
>>>> but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink
>>>> heaters
>>>> are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
>>>
>>> Do they run the central heating too?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The overwhelming majority of houses here have forced air heating. There
>> are rare cases of water heating, usually sub-floor. In fact, my son built
>> a house last year (for which the contractor still owes him a few
>> grand) which
>> has sub-floor heating. Others he has built even have some sub-floor
>> cooling for wine storage.
>> Water heating is more economical to run but we have wild swings in
>> temperature here in the winter and if it warms up outside, the heating
>> can't respond due to the heat sink.
>> There is a chinook blowing today so the temp is above freezing.
>> However, if the Arctic Front moves south, overnight temps can drop
>> below -20C (as it did a couple of weeks ago) or even below -30C, which
>> we haven't suffered for a couple of winters.
>
> I was surprised to read that. You are a scientist so I guess you feel
> that is good for that country. If you were in UK would you not look at
> a much cheaper and more effective alternative?
>
> We have another storm (Gertrude) blowing already and it is bloody cold
> outside.
>
My gas and electricity bill for December was about £115.Graham

"graham" > wrote in message

>> I was surprised to read that. You are a scientist so I guess you feel
>> that is good for that country. If you were in UK would you not look at
>> a much cheaper and more effective alternative?
>>
>> We have another storm (Gertrude) blowing already and it is bloody cold
>> outside.
>>
> My gas and electricity bill for December was about £115.Graham

Our bill is for combined electricity and gas.

For December was £103 - 60% electric and 40% gas!

Gas is for the hot water and heating, as well as the hob.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

In article >, says...
>
> Ophelia wrote:
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:38:53 -0000, "Ophelia" >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > >>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:46:43 -0000, "Ophelia" >
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > >>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:21:44 -0000, "Ophelia" >
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >>>>>>> On 1/26/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 15:12:31 -0500, Nancy Young
> > >>>>>>>> > wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On 1/26/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 12:01:34 -0500, Nancy Young
> > >>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I have instant hot water, none is wasted here.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> That's a nice feature, but most people don't have that.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I mentioned it really because sf was accusatory and actually I am
> > >>>>>>>> very
> > >>>>>>>> good at not wasting
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I get it, but when you live with drought, it sensitizes you to
> > >>>>>>> the idea of just running water down the drain for nothing.
> > >>>>>>> Like the moisturizer I use, it says to put it on and rinse it
> > >>>>>>> off. Then wash the tub. Like they're on a mission to drain all
> > >>>>>>> the reservoirs. Somehow I get by using less and not rinsing off
> > >>>>>>> the 'extra.'
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> My power bill is a fraction of some friends,
> > >>>>>>>> but then they go from room to room leaving lights on etc. I also
> > >>>>>>>> loathe to turn the oven on for just one item etc etc.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sorry if I seemed to be jumping on you, I didn't mean it to
> > >>>>>>> be personally directed at you.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> If I was still in a house I would install one of those on demand
> > >>>>>>>> water
> > >>>>>>>> heating thingies, they are very good.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I have considered those, though I am sure spending a lot of money
> > >>>>>>> on that would be a hard sell.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>Do you mean a 'combi boiler'? Believe me, they are worth every
> > >>>>>>penny!!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ar...a-combi-boiler
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Actually it's not the same, an on demand tankless water heater is only
> > >>>>> for hot water, not house heating. I had one installed two years ago,
> > >>>>> it long ago paid for itself by cutting my water heating energy use by
> > >>>>> 2/3... and takes very little space, it's about the size of a desk top
> > >>>>> PC... mine is on my basement wall, in warmer climates it can be
> > >>>>> outdoors.
> > >>>>> https://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Mine isn't much bigger than a desktop computer and it does serve the
> > >>>>house
> > >>>>heating as well as the hot water. Oh and it hangs on the wall in a
> > >>>>cupboard.
> > >>>
> > >>> All I can think is you're in a location of much more mild weather...
> > >>> your system wouldn't work here where temperatures in winter are often
> > >>> in the minuses, as in below zero F.
> > >>
> > >>LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
> > >
> > > You are on a more northerly latitude than him!
> >
> > As I have already said, we are on the same latitude as Moscow.
>
> Keep in mind though - you do still get some warming effect from the
> Gulf Stream and Moscow does not.

Moscow, having a continental climate, gets warmer summers than
Scotland.

Inland and Highland Scotland can get very cold in winter.

The coldest I have ever experienced (at our last place on high exposed
moorland on the mainland)
was -24 C, which is -11F.

Janet UK

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:55:23 -0500, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 1/28/2016 10:32 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> move when the fan kicked in. The down side is that there seem to be a
>> lot of duct cleaning businesses that try to sell you their service more
>> often than it needs to be done, and some that claim that they did it for
>> you in the past and it is due again, even though you have never done
>> business with them.
>
>When the guy was leaving my house after doing the ducts, he
>said My company says it should be done every two years, while
>shaking his head No, you don't. I laughed and said Maybe not
>every two years but probably more than every 50 years. Right!
>
>nancy

We were in that house in the early 70s and I don't recall any
companies giving that service, but there may have been.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:56:28 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:42:44 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:35:34 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>
>> >Ophelia wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:38:53 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
>> >> >
>> >> > You are on a more northerly latitude than him!
>> >>
>> >> As I have already said, we are on the same latitude as Moscow.
>> >
>> >Keep in mind though - you do still get some warming effect from the
>> >Gulf Stream and Moscow does not.
>>
>> I know that Gulf Stream, once when we were back in Scotland in the
>> summer my father said I would get some swimming time, he said the Gulf
>> Stream warmed the water. Run down the beach, dive into the water,
>> Gulf Stream???? Warm???? Bloody hell !
>
>Billy Connolly. "Pale Blue Scottish Person"
>
>Cindy Hamilton

I sure felt it

On 28/01/2016 12:42 PM, Janet wrote:
> In article >, says...
>>
>> Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:38:53 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:46:43 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:21:44 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/26/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 15:12:31 -0500, Nancy Young
>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/26/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 12:01:34 -0500, Nancy Young
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have instant hot water, none is wasted here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a nice feature, but most people don't have that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned it really because sf was accusatory and actually I am
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> good at not wasting
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I get it, but when you live with drought, it sensitizes you to
>>>>>>>>>> the idea of just running water down the drain for nothing.
>>>>>>>>>> Like the moisturizer I use, it says to put it on and rinse it
>>>>>>>>>> off. Then wash the tub. Like they're on a mission to drain all
>>>>>>>>>> the reservoirs. Somehow I get by using less and not rinsing off
>>>>>>>>>> the 'extra.'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My power bill is a fraction of some friends,
>>>>>>>>>>> but then they go from room to room leaving lights on etc. I also
>>>>>>>>>>> loathe to turn the oven on for just one item etc etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry if I seemed to be jumping on you, I didn't mean it to
>>>>>>>>>> be personally directed at you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If I was still in a house I would install one of those on demand
>>>>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>>>>> heating thingies, they are very good.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have considered those, though I am sure spending a lot of money
>>>>>>>>>> on that would be a hard sell.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you mean a 'combi boiler'? Believe me, they are worth every
>>>>>>>>> penny!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ar...a-combi-boiler
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually it's not the same, an on demand tankless water heater is only
>>>>>>>> for hot water, not house heating. I had one installed two years ago,
>>>>>>>> it long ago paid for itself by cutting my water heating energy use by
>>>>>>>> 2/3... and takes very little space, it's about the size of a desk top
>>>>>>>> PC... mine is on my basement wall, in warmer climates it can be
>>>>>>>> outdoors.
>>>>>>>> https://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mine isn't much bigger than a desktop computer and it does serve the
>>>>>>> house
>>>>>>> heating as well as the hot water. Oh and it hangs on the wall in a
>>>>>>> cupboard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All I can think is you're in a location of much more mild weather...
>>>>>> your system wouldn't work here where temperatures in winter are often
>>>>>> in the minuses, as in below zero F.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
>>>>
>>>> You are on a more northerly latitude than him!
>>>
>>> As I have already said, we are on the same latitude as Moscow.
>>
>> Keep in mind though - you do still get some warming effect from the
>> Gulf Stream and Moscow does not.
>
> Moscow, having a continental climate, gets warmer summers than
> Scotland.
>
> Inland and Highland Scotland can get very cold in winter.
>
> The coldest I have ever experienced (at our last place on high exposed
> moorland on the mainland)
> was -24 C, which is -11F.
>
> Janet UK
>
>
>
But add to that the humidity.
I visited the UK on business in February about 30 years ago and although
the temperature hovered around 0°C, I really felt the cold because of
the moisture. I was glad to get back to Canada.
Graham

In article >, says...
>
> On 28/01/2016 8:36 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> >
> >
> > "graham" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On 28/01/2016 1:41 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "sf" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:27:29 -0000, "Ophelia" >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
> >>>>> news > >>>>> > On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:43:09 -0700, cibola de oro >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> wrote:
> >>>>> >> > I have instant hot water, none is wasted here.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> You brag like the spoiled rich bitch who went to Swiss boarding
> >>>>> >> school,
> >>>>> >> you risible ****.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > She should preface her just use "hot water" puffery with the fact
> >>>>> > that
> >>>>> > the suggestion only works for water wasters and those with an
> >>>>> instant
> >>>>> > hot water dispenser.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why is it puffery??? Is an instant water heater so unusual in the
> >>>>> US???
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes.
> >>>
> >>> It is odd. I always though USA was far ahead of us technologically yet
> >>> in
> >>> many things, you are far behind. I don't understand it! As for simple
> >>> instant water heaters, we had them in the 50s.
> >>>
> >> I recently replaced my water heater with a conventional 40 gallon one.
> >> Gas
> >> fired. Instant ones have been promoted here for a couple of years or so
> >> but it wasn't feasible for my house. Mini, under the kitchen sink heaters
> >> are often in up-market houses and have been for over 20 years.
> >
> > Do they run the central heating too?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> The overwhelming majority of houses here have forced air heating.

My son has a modern eco house where all the downstairs floors are
geothermally heated. An air filtering heat recovery/circulation system
heats the top floor. The roof has a huge array of solar panels which
generate enough power to heat the water and they get paid for any
surplus power they don't use.

Janet.

On 28/01/2016 1:26 PM, Janet wrote:
> In article >, says...
>>

>>>
>> The overwhelming majority of houses here have forced air heating.
>
> My son has a modern eco house where all the downstairs floors are
> geothermally heated. An air filtering heat recovery/circulation system
> heats the top floor. The roof has a huge array of solar panels which
> generate enough power to heat the water and they get paid for any
> surplus power they don't use.
>
> Janet.
>
That would be nice but retrofitting my house is not economically
worthwhile.
Graham

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 2:42:59 PM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
>
> Moscow, having a continental climate, gets warmer summers than
> Scotland.
>
> Inland and Highland Scotland can get very cold in winter.
>
> The coldest I have ever experienced (at our last place on high exposed
> moorland on the mainland)
> was -24 C, which is -11F.
>
> Janet UK

Most places have warmer summers than Scotland. However, the temperature is great for those who like to go hiking.

Scotland also has some very dangerous weather. Except out of summer (although the mists can still roll in) one can find oneself quickly and dangerously isolated.

It's also one of the most beautiful countries in the world.

http://ww.richardfisher.com

"graham" > wrote in message
...
> On 28/01/2016 12:42 PM, Janet wrote:
>> In article >, says...
>>>
>>> Ophelia wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:38:53 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:46:43 -0000, "Ophelia"
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:21:44 -0000, "Ophelia"
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/26/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 15:12:31 -0500, Nancy Young
>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/26/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 12:01:34 -0500, Nancy Young
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have instant hot water, none is wasted here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a nice feature, but most people don't have that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned it really because sf was accusatory and actually I
>>>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>> good at not wasting
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I get it, but when you live with drought, it sensitizes you to
>>>>>>>>>>> the idea of just running water down the drain for nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>> Like the moisturizer I use, it says to put it on and rinse it
>>>>>>>>>>> off. Then wash the tub. Like they're on a mission to drain all
>>>>>>>>>>> the reservoirs. Somehow I get by using less and not rinsing off
>>>>>>>>>>> the 'extra.'
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My power bill is a fraction of some friends,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but then they go from room to room leaving lights on etc. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>> loathe to turn the oven on for just one item etc etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry if I seemed to be jumping on you, I didn't mean it to
>>>>>>>>>>> be personally directed at you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If I was still in a house I would install one of those on
>>>>>>>>>>>> demand
>>>>>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>>>>>> heating thingies, they are very good.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have considered those, though I am sure spending a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>> on that would be a hard sell.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you mean a 'combi boiler'? Believe me, they are worth every
>>>>>>>>>> penny!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ar...a-combi-boiler
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actually it's not the same, an on demand tankless water heater is
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> for hot water, not house heating. I had one installed two years
>>>>>>>>> ago,
>>>>>>>>> it long ago paid for itself by cutting my water heating energy use
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> 2/3... and takes very little space, it's about the size of a desk
>>>>>>>>> top
>>>>>>>>> PC... mine is on my basement wall, in warmer climates it can be
>>>>>>>>> outdoors.
>>>>>>>>> https://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mine isn't much bigger than a desktop computer and it does serve
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> house
>>>>>>>> heating as well as the hot water. Oh and it hangs on the wall in a
>>>>>>>> cupboard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All I can think is you're in a location of much more mild weather...
>>>>>>> your system wouldn't work here where temperatures in winter are
>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>> in the minuses, as in below zero F.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are on a more northerly latitude than him!
>>>>
>>>> As I have already said, we are on the same latitude as Moscow.
>>>
>>> Keep in mind though - you do still get some warming effect from the
>>> Gulf Stream and Moscow does not.
>>
>> Moscow, having a continental climate, gets warmer summers than
>> Scotland.
>>
>> Inland and Highland Scotland can get very cold in winter.
>>
>> The coldest I have ever experienced (at our last place on high exposed
>> moorland on the mainland)
>> was -24 C, which is -11F.
>>
>> Janet UK
>>
>>
>>
> But add to that the humidity.
> I visited the UK on business in February about 30 years ago and although
> the temperature hovered around 0°C, I really felt the cold because of the
> moisture. I was glad to get back to Canada.

Yes, it really hits you when you have lived away for a long time. I
remember how it felt when we came back from India.



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:26:27 PM UTC-5, Janet wrote:

> My son has a modern eco house where all the downstairs floors are
> geothermally heated. An air filtering heat recovery/circulation system
> heats the top floor. The roof has a huge array of solar panels which
> generate enough power to heat the water and they get paid for any
> surplus power they don't use.
>
> Janet.

Good for him; he's doing his part. I'd be curious to know what
sort of climate he lives in.

Cindy Hamilton

In article >, says...
> > Moscow, having a continental climate, gets warmer summers than
> > Scotland.
> >
> > Inland and Highland Scotland can get very cold in winter.
> >
> > The coldest I have ever experienced (at our last place on high exposed
> > moorland on the mainland)
> > was -24 C, which is -11F.
> >
> > Janet UK
> >
> >
> >
> But add to that the humidity.

Please don't rub it in.. this is the wettest winter since records
began.

> I visited the UK on business in February about 30 years ago and although
> the temperature hovered around 0°C, I really felt the cold because of
> the moisture. I was glad to get back to Canada.
> Graham

Our Canadian neighbour used to tell me every winter how he missed
that lovely DRY cold back home :-) In the end they went back there.

Janet UK

In article >,
says...
>
> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:26:27 PM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
>
> > My son has a modern eco house where all the downstairs floors are
> > geothermally heated. An air filtering heat recovery/circulation system
> > heats the top floor. The roof has a huge array of solar panels which
> > generate enough power to heat the water and they get paid for any
> > surplus power they don't use.
> >
> > Janet.
>
> Good for him; he's doing his part. I'd be curious to know what
> sort of climate he lives in.

Scottish :-)

Janet

Ophelia wrote:

> "Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:56:11 -0000, "Ophelia" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>"Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>
> >>>>>> Actually it's not the same, an on demand tankless water heater is
> >>>>>> only
> >>>>>> for hot water, not house heating. I had one installed two years ago,
> >>>>>> it long ago paid for itself by cutting my water heating energy use by
> >>>>>> 2/3... and takes very little space, it's about the size of a desk top
> >>>>>> PC... mine is on my basement wall, in warmer climates it can be
> >>>>>> outdoors.
> >>>>>> https://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mine isn't much bigger than a desktop computer and it does serve the
> >>>>>house
> >>>>>heating as well as the hot water. Oh and it hangs on the wall in a
> >>>>>cupboard.
> >>>>
> >>>> All I can think is you're in a location of much more mild weather...
> >>>> your system wouldn't work here where temperatures in winter are often
> >>>> in the minuses, as in below zero F.
> >>>
> >>> LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
> >>
> >>Just to add, are you aware we are on the same latitude as Moscow?
> >
> > I've no idea how cold your winters get, here long periods at 0ºF and
> > lower is common. My first winter in the northern catskills I looked
> > at my little wireless weather station and it showed -40º, I didn't
> > notice that minus sign and walked outside with no coat, just a
> > t-shirt... I very quickly went back inside, I looked at my weather
> > station again and noticed that little minus sign... -40º is so cold
> > hell would definitely freeze over. If you are near sea level and
> > close to the sea I suspect your winters aren't nearly as cold as they
> > are here at about 2,000 feet above sea level and inland.
>
> That really isn't the point! We were discussing the means of heating water
> and central heating. You brought it up about temps in other places.


No, actually that was *me*, luv...!!! ;-)

--
Best
Greg

On 28/01/2016 1:54 PM, Janet wrote:
> In article >, says...
>>> Moscow, having a continental climate, gets warmer summers than
>>> Scotland.
>>>
>>> Inland and Highland Scotland can get very cold in winter.
>>>
>>> The coldest I have ever experienced (at our last place on high exposed
>>> moorland on the mainland)
>>> was -24 C, which is -11F.
>>>
>>> Janet UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> But add to that the humidity.
>
> Please don't rub it in.. this is the wettest winter since records
> began.
>
>> I visited the UK on business in February about 30 years ago and although
>> the temperature hovered around 0°C, I really felt the cold because of
>> the moisture. I was glad to get back to Canada.
>> Graham
>
> Our Canadian neighbour used to tell me every winter how he missed
> that lovely DRY cold back home :-) In the end they went back there.
>
> Janet UK
>
When it's -30C and one complains, the usual retort is: "But it's a dry
cold!"
It's still bloody unpleasant!
Graham

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>> "Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:56:11 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>>>>> Actually it's not the same, an on demand tankless water heater is
>> >>>>>> only
>> >>>>>> for hot water, not house heating. I had one installed two years
>> >>>>>> ago,
>> >>>>>> it long ago paid for itself by cutting my water heating energy use
>> >>>>>> by
>> >>>>>> 2/3... and takes very little space, it's about the size of a desk
>> >>>>>> top
>> >>>>>> PC... mine is on my basement wall, in warmer climates it can be
>> >>>>>> outdoors.
>> >>>>>> https://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Mine isn't much bigger than a desktop computer and it does serve the
>> >>>>>house
>> >>>>>heating as well as the hot water. Oh and it hangs on the wall in a
>> >>>>>cupboard.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> All I can think is you're in a location of much more mild weather...
>> >>>> your system wouldn't work here where temperatures in winter are
>> >>>> often
>> >>>> in the minuses, as in below zero F.
>> >>>
>> >>> LOL I am in Scotland!!!! These things are commonplace btw.
>> >>
>> >>Just to add, are you aware we are on the same latitude as Moscow?
>> >
>> > I've no idea how cold your winters get, here long periods at 0ºF and
>> > lower is common. My first winter in the northern catskills I looked
>> > at my little wireless weather station and it showed -40º, I didn't
>> > notice that minus sign and walked outside with no coat, just a
>> > t-shirt... I very quickly went back inside, I looked at my weather
>> > station again and noticed that little minus sign... -40º is so cold
>> > hell would definitely freeze over. If you are near sea level and
>> > close to the sea I suspect your winters aren't nearly as cold as they
>> > are here at about 2,000 feet above sea level and inland.
>>
>> That really isn't the point! We were discussing the means of heating
>> water
>> and central heating. You brought it up about temps in other places.
>
>
> No, actually that was *me*, luv...!!! ;-)

No you are not to blame this time .. it was yer pal:

Brooklyn:
" If you are near sea level and
close to the sea I suspect your winters aren't nearly as cold as they
are here at about 2,000 feet above sea level and inland."

;-)




--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:59:48 -0700, graham > wrote:

>On 28/01/2016 1:54 PM, Janet wrote:
>> In article >, says...
>>>> Moscow, having a continental climate, gets warmer summers than
>>>> Scotland.
>>>>
>>>> Inland and Highland Scotland can get very cold in winter.
>>>>
>>>> The coldest I have ever experienced (at our last place on high exposed
>>>> moorland on the mainland)
>>>> was -24 C, which is -11F.
>>>>
>>>> Janet UK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> But add to that the humidity.
>>
>> Please don't rub it in.. this is the wettest winter since records
>> began.
>>
>>> I visited the UK on business in February about 30 years ago and although
>>> the temperature hovered around 0°C, I really felt the cold because of
>>> the moisture. I was glad to get back to Canada.
>>> Graham
>>
>> Our Canadian neighbour used to tell me every winter how he missed
>> that lovely DRY cold back home :-) In the end they went back there.
>>
>> Janet UK
>>
>When it's -30C and one complains, the usual retort is: "But it's a dry
>cold!"
>It's still bloody unpleasant!
>Graham

Correct - these days past -5C with a wind to make it feel like -15C I
do not walk outside, just can't hack it anymore - do a building walk,
go from one end to the other, climb up a floor, do the next floor,
etc. my fitbit shows it as pretty good exercise.

On 2016-01-28 3:26 PM, graham wrote:

> But add to that the humidity.
> I visited the UK on business in February about 30 years ago and although
> the temperature hovered around 0°C, I really felt the cold because of
> the moisture. I was glad to get back to Canada.

It depends on what part of Canada you are in. The winter air in the
prairies and the north is dry. I have been in -20 to -30 up there and it
was much easier to take than our usual 0 to -10 winter temps in Niagara
where the air is always damp. It is the same with summer temperatures.
I was in California last September and most of the time it was running
95-100F. One day we stopped for a coffee at Soledad and it was 108F. It
was hot. My wife made the mistake of touching the metal frame of a
table, but my body was more comfortable in that than it would be at 90F
at home.