On 3/28/2016 7:05 PM, MisterDiddyWahDiddy wrote:
> I'm one of those in love with love
> types. If not for that, i would have made "a dandy whore."
>
> --Bryan


Only YOU would use that as a soapbox for your oral sex obsession.

TMI dude, TMI...

On 3/28/2016 7:28 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 06:31:44 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> > wrote:
>
>> SF, if college costs are rolled back to the 60s and 70s dollar, will salaries and
>> wages revert to their value in those decades, too? It seems only fair.
>>
> How about not being so literal?

How about not being so impossibly over the top?

> Did you attend a state run college or
> were your parents so rich you went private?

What a snippy little class warfare obfuscation.

You lose this round too.

On 3/28/2016 7:33 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:02:23 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
>> I don't much care for the idea of free education. It should be subsidised and it could be made more affordable. I have been in classes with kids that are there because their parents were paying and it ain't a pretty sight. People tend not to see value in those things given to them freely.
>
> I went to college in California when public college was almost free.
> I could barely afford it, but I did. I started off paying $150
> tuition per semester, which crept up a little. Community was only $13
> a unit until not too many years ago. Then there are "fees". It
> wasn't free, but it seems like it now.
>


One more example of where just pushing grant and aid money into the
system has not improved it in any meaningful way.

I went to a state university, lived at home except for one year, and worked throughout
my entire four years. What's your problem? If college costs are rolled back,
then the dollar's value in wages and salaries should match the same era. You
really can't have one without the other, that I can see.

N.

On 3/30/2016 9:15 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
> I went to a state university, lived at home except for one year, and worked throughout
> my entire four years. What's your problem? If college costs are rolled back,
> then the dollar's value in wages and salaries should match the same era. You
> really can't have one without the other, that I can see.
>
> N.
>

Logical.

Kinda puts the kibosh on all of Bernie's "free stuff" though...

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:34:34 AM UTC-6, onglet wrote:
> On 3/30/2016 9:15 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
> > I went to a state university, lived at home except for one year, and worked throughout
> > my entire four years. What's your problem? If college costs are rolled back,
> > then the dollar's value in wages and salaries should match the same era.. You
> > really can't have one without the other, that I can see.
> >
> > N.
> >
>
> Logical.
>
> Kinda puts the kibosh on all of Bernie's "free stuff" though...

People will still be able to rack up thousands in debt to go to PRIVATE Universities if they choose to. Bernie is proposing making PUBLIC colleges tuition free! And it's not free stuff, it's getting what WE pay taxes for! And Bernie is proposing taxing Wall Street speculation as a way to pay for it! Did we KNOW that hedge fund managers pay NO taxes on their billions$ of ill gotten booty? And what about the corporations who move their billions$ out of nation to avoid paying U.S. taxes? Make THAT illegal and get more tax income there too!

John Kuthe...

On 3/30/2016 9:51 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:34:34 AM UTC-6, onglet wrote:
>> On 3/30/2016 9:15 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>> I went to a state university, lived at home except for one year, and worked throughout
>>> my entire four years. What's your problem? If college costs are rolled back,
>>> then the dollar's value in wages and salaries should match the same era. You
>>> really can't have one without the other, that I can see.
>>>
>>> N.
>>>
>>
>> Logical.
>>
>> Kinda puts the kibosh on all of Bernie's "free stuff" though...
>
> People will still be able to rack up thousands in debt to go to PRIVATE Universities if they choose to.

Can you imagine....I think it's called...wait for it...FREE WILL!

> Bernie is proposing making PUBLIC colleges tuition free!

TANSTAAFL!


http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/03/po...college-costs/

Sanders' free college plan would require states buy in big.
The Vermont senator hasn't released many details on his proposal.
However, his campaign pointed to legislation he introduced last year
that called for the federal government to cover two-thirds of the bill
for undergraduate students, with the states handling the rest. This
would cost the feds $47 billion a year, while states would be left with
a $23 billion tab, he estimated.
The price tag may turn out to be even bigger, depending on how many more
students enroll. A tuition-free degree would likely attract many takers.


> And it's not free stuff, it's getting what WE pay taxes for!

At my age I'm not "getting any" and that makes it "free stuff" I pay and
receive ZERO value for!

> And Bernie is proposing taxing Wall Street speculation as a way to pay for it!

Now what happens with any and all taxes?

They get...wait for it..PASSED DOWN!

To...ALL of US!

http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/...e-will-it-work

The United States currently has the ninth-most-educated workforce in the
world, with 45 percent of young adults having earned some form of
diploma or certificate. That's according to the Organization for
Economic Cooperation and Development, which compiles detailed statistics
on developed countries. The U.S. is above the OECD average, making
modest progress over the past decade, even as tuition has risen steadily.

"The most educated workforces in the world," though, are smoking us.
They are found in South Korea, where a whopping 67 percent of adults
have some postsecondary education, and Japan and Canada (both at 58
percent).

Now, here's the problem with Sanders' claim that free tuition is necessary:

All three countries charge tuition at their universities, which are
overwhelmingly public. The numbers are roughly on par with in-state
tuition at many public universities here. In fact, Canada's recent
graduates have student loan burdens similar to those of U.S. students,
and they're not happy about it.

http://www.charismanews.com/politics...e-tuition-plan

As with most government handouts, the Sanders plan will likely cost more
and deliver less than it promises.

Let's start with the cost estimates for free public higher education.
Virtually every advocate of free tuition references an article in The
Atlantic from January 2014, which estimates the cost at roughly $62.6
billion. Sanders, factoring in his additional proposals, predicts closer
to $75 billion. Two-thirds of his plan would be federally funded via new
taxes on Wall Street speculators, with states contributing the remainder.

The problem with these calculations is that they are based on static
projections for tuition costs. If this assumption proves faulty, the
actual cost of implementing the Sanders plan will balloon. And there are
three good reasons to expect an increase in tuition costs.

First, history suggests that tuition will continue to rise. Tuition
rates have been gradually increasing over past decades, with students
now paying 3.22 times more than in 1985. [See Figure 6, p. 18.] The
Sanders plan will likely exasperate this trend because it will remove
any incentive for public institutions to slow these increases.

Second, any reduction in current sources of revenue would likely require
increases in tuition rates to cover the shortfall. For example, a large
portion of public college budgets are governmentally funded through
appropriations, grants, tax benefits, and work-study programs. In FY
2013, state aid and local taxes cumulatively contributed $78.8 billion
to public higher education. Cuts to state or local budgets could result
in less revenue for public colleges and universities, which would have
to be offset by higher tuition rates.

Most public institutions also depend on revenue from hospitals,
auxiliary enterprises, private gifts, investment income and other
educational activities. These sources contributed $80 billion—or
one-third of total revenue—to public institutions (four-year, two-year
and less than two-year) in 2012. Although these programs are generally
self-sustaining, the amount of revenue they generate is not guaranteed.
Unexpected revenue deficits in these areas could also result in tuition
hikes, costs ultimately saddled onto the taxpayer under the Sanders plan.

Third, the advent of free tuition will provide a powerful incentive for
students to enroll in public colleges and universities. Whether
motivating those who never before considered college to finally enroll,
or incentivizing private college students to switch to the public
sector, or a combination of both, the result will be the same—a
significant increase in the cost of offering free tuition, well above
estimates based on static enrollments in public institutions.

As faulty as Sanders' cost estimates appear, perhaps the more troubling
aspect of his plan is its false promise of eliminating student loan
debt. The cost of college attendance includes far more than just
tuition. In fact, fully half of public college students' expenditures
remains room and board. The College Board reports the average published
tuition rate for public four-year in-state students as $9,410, while the
corresponding price of room and board is $10,138. Textbooks are another
significant cost of attendance, with the average public undergraduate
student paying $1,200 annually.



> Did we KNOW that hedge fund managers pay NO taxes on their billions$ of ill gotten booty?

Did you think THEY are the only ones who might be forced to pay?

Oh no...

It's EVERY pension fund with stock holdings, every individual Mom and
Pop investor - ALL of US!


http://www.fastcompany.com/3055603/h...-actually-cost

Bernie Sanders argued that public college should be free during the
Democratic debate on Sunday, saying that he would finance free tuition
by "imposing a tax of a fraction of a percent on Wall Street
speculators," according to his campaign website.

How much would such a plan cost?

Here's a quick estimate: The College Board estimates the cost of a
four-year, in-state public college, including room and board, to be
$19,548 for the 2015-2016 school year. There were 4.85 million students
enrolled in such programs in 2013, the last year for which the College
Board calculated this number. That's about $95 billion. Without room and
board, it's about $45.6 billion.

This is an oversimplified estimate. Current tuition doesn’t necessarily
reflect the actual cost of education, and the number of people who go to
college would likely increase if it were paid through taxes. This
estimate also doesn't reflect the cost of two-year programs (Sanders has
not been specific about whether he means four-year colleges or two-year
colleges or both, but his opponent, Hillary Clinton, argued that
community colleges should be free, while four-year universities should
be "possible to attend" with "debt-free tuition").

Sanders's campaign estimates that the plan for free college would cost
$75 billion per year.

> And what about the corporations who move their billions$ out of nation to avoid paying U.S. taxes?

Goal post shift!

That has ZERO to do with "free" college!

> Make THAT illegal and get more tax income there too!
>
> John Kuthe...

You are so checked out on reality that it BOGGLES the mind!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/treasury...ons-1411421056

Updated Sept. 22, 2014

The Treasury Department tightened tax rules Monday to deter U.S.
companies from moving their legal headquarters to lower-tax countries

On 3/30/2016 9:57 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> I don't know how students manage these days.


Oh they manage JUST fine, trust me:



http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/tric...ry?id=26164491

With competition for tuition money ramping up, colleges are looking for
ways to set themselves apart and some have turned to investing in
unimaginable campus experiences, from water parks to luxurious residence
halls.

In the economic report, €œCollege as a Country Club,€� published last year
by the National Bureau of Economic Research, researchers found that some
colleges -- excluding elite schools like Princeton and Yale -- attract
more applicants when they invest in state-of-the-art facilities like
pools and rec centers.

So even though average tuition costs for four-year colleges continue to
tick up year over year -- now running about $18,000 for in-state
students at public universities to almost $32,000 for out-of-state
students, according to College Board -- more colleges are justifying the
high cost of building impressive amenities in an effort to recruit and
retain students.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/fa...ver-rides.html

When Louisiana State University surveyed students in 2009 to find out
what they most wanted in their new recreation complex, one feature beat
out even massage therapy: a lazy river.

But with dozens of schools (including some of its Southeastern
Conference rivals) building the water rides, the university had to do
one better: When its lazy river is finished in 2016, it will spell out
the letters €œLSU€� in the schools signature Geaux font.

€œThe students involved in the planning process wanted something cooler
than what anyone else had,€� said Laurie Braden, the schools director of
recreation. €œUniversity relations said it was O.K. as long as it
followed the font appropriately and didnt take it out of scale.€�

In the university recreation center arms race €” with 92 schools
reporting over $1.7 billion in capital projects, according to a 2013
study from the Nirsa: Leaders in Collegiate Recreation (formerly known
as the National Intramural-Recreational Sports Association) €” the latest
thing is to turn a piece of campus into something approaching a water
theme park.

At Auburn University in Alabama, for example, students can soak in a
45-person paw-print-shaped hot tub or scale a 20-foot wet climbing wall
before plunging into the pool. Designs for North Dakota States
facility, on which construction is scheduled to begin next year, include
a zip line that students can ride out over the water, a 36-foot-diameter
vortex of swirling water and a recessed fireplace on an island in the
middle of the pool that students can swim up to. A small €œrain garden€�
is planned to mist lounging students.

Over at Clemson University in South Carolina, theres talk of
redeveloping a 38-acre property on Lake Hartwell, across from the
current rec center. The project may include €œblobs,€� essentially
floating mattresses placed so that students can jump from one to
another. €œIts like an obstacle course, like "American Ninja, €� said
David Frock, Clemsons director of recreation, referring to the TV show
€œAmerican Ninja Warrior.€�


And the end result of the insane federal grant spending represented
internally:



http://necir.org/2014/02/06/new-anal...dministrators/

The number of non-academic administrative and professional employees at
U.S. colleges and universities has more than doubled in the last 25
years, vastly outpacing the growth in the number of students or faculty,
according to an analysis of federal figures.

The disproportionate increase in the number of university staffers who
neither teach nor conduct research has continued unabated in more recent
years, and slowed only slightly since the start of the economic
downturn, during which time colleges and universities have contended
that a dearth of resources forced them to sharply raise tuition.

In all, from 1987 until 2011-12€”the most recent academic year for which
comparable figures are available€”universities and colleges collectively
added 517,636 administrators and professional employees, or an average
of 87 every working day, according to the analysis of federal figures,
by the New England Center of Investigative Reporting in collaboration
with the nonprofit, nonpartisan social-science research group the
American Institutes for Research.

€œTheres just a mind-boggling amount of money per student thats being
spent on administration,€� said Andrew Gillen, a senior researcher at the
institutes. €œIt raises a question of priorities.€�

Since 1987, universities have also started or expanded departments
devoted to marketing, diversity, disability, sustainability, security,
environmental health, recruiting, technology, and fundraising, and added
new majors and graduate and athletics programs, satellite campuses, and
conference centers.

Universities and colleges continued adding employees even after the
beginning of the economic downturn, though at a slightly slower rate,
the federal figures show.

€œInstitutions have said that they were hurting, so I would have thought
that staffing overall would go down,€� Desrochers said. €œBut it didnt.€�

Theres also been a massive hiring boom in central offices of public
university systems and universities with more than one campus, according
to the figures. The number of employees in central system offices has
increased six-fold since 1987, and the number of administrators in them
by a factor of more than 34.

One example, the central office of the California State University
System, now has a budget bigger than those of three of the systems 23
campuses.

€œNone of them have reduced campus administrative burdens at all,€� said
King, who said he is particularly frustrated by this trend. €œTheyve
added a layer of bureaucracy, and in 95 percent of the cases its an
unnecessary bureaucracy and a counterproductive one.€�

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 11:15:07 AM UTC-4, Nancy2 wrote:
> I went to a state university, lived at home except for one year, and worked throughout
> my entire four years. What's your problem? If college costs are rolled back,
> then the dollar's value in wages and salaries should match the same era. You
> really can't have one without the other, that I can see.
>
> N.

College costs have far outstripped ordinary cost-of-living inflation.

From <http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveodland/2012/03/24/college-costs-are-soaring/#cfb2b7b641bc>:

According to Gordon Wadsworth, author of The College Trap, "...if the cost of college tuition was $10,000 in 1986, it would now cost the same student over $21,500 if education had increased as much as the average inflation rate but instead education is $59,800 or over 2 1/2 times the inflation rate."

I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs. Those figures don't
appear to take into consideration other costs (such as room
and board).

Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 10:24:38 -0600, onglet > wrote:

>On 3/30/2016 9:51 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:34:34 AM UTC-6, onglet wrote:
>>> On 3/30/2016 9:15 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>> I went to a state university, lived at home except for one year, and worked throughout
>>>> my entire four years. What's your problem? If college costs are rolled back,
>>>> then the dollar's value in wages and salaries should match the same era. You
>>>> really can't have one without the other, that I can see.
>>>>
>>>> N.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Logical.
>>>
>>> Kinda puts the kibosh on all of Bernie's "free stuff" though...
>>
>> People will still be able to rack up thousands in debt to go to PRIVATE Universities if they choose to.
>
>Can you imagine....I think it's called...wait for it...FREE WILL!
>
>> Bernie is proposing making PUBLIC colleges tuition free!
>
>TANSTAAFL!
>
>
>http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/03/po...college-costs/
>
>Sanders' free college plan would require states buy in big.
>The Vermont senator hasn't released many details on his proposal.
>However, his campaign pointed to legislation he introduced last year
>that called for the federal government to cover two-thirds of the bill
>for undergraduate students, with the states handling the rest. This
>would cost the feds $47 billion a year, while states would be left with
>a $23 billion tab, he estimated.
>The price tag may turn out to be even bigger, depending on how many more
>students enroll. A tuition-free degree would likely attract many takers.

Takers is right, and they'll never give back.

On 3/30/2016 10:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 11:15:07 AM UTC-4, Nancy2 wrote:
>> I went to a state university, lived at home except for one year, and worked throughout
>> my entire four years. What's your problem? If college costs are rolled back,
>> then the dollar's value in wages and salaries should match the same era. You
>> really can't have one without the other, that I can see.
>>
>> N.
>
> College costs have far outstripped ordinary cost-of-living inflation.

Due to massive infusions of federal aid and grants which forced the
universities to build out amenities that have NOTHING to do with education!



http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/tric...ry?id=26164491

With competition for tuition money ramping up, colleges are looking for
ways to set themselves apart and some have turned to investing in
unimaginable campus experiences, from water parks to luxurious residence
halls.

In the economic report, “College as a Country Club,” published last year
by the National Bureau of Economic Research, researchers found that some
colleges -- excluding elite schools like Princeton and Yale -- attract
more applicants when they invest in state-of-the-art facilities like
pools and rec centers.

So even though average tuition costs for four-year colleges continue to
tick up year over year -- now running about $18,000 for in-state
students at public universities to almost $32,000 for out-of-state
students, according to College Board -- more colleges are justifying the
high cost of building impressive amenities in an effort to recruit and
retain students.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/fa...ver-rides.html

When Louisiana State University surveyed students in 2009 to find out
what they most wanted in their new recreation complex, one feature beat
out even massage therapy: a lazy river.

But with dozens of schools (including some of its Southeastern
Conference rivals) building the water rides, the university had to do
one better: When its lazy river is finished in 2016, it will spell out
the letters “LSU” in the school’s signature Geaux font.

“The students involved in the planning process wanted something cooler
than what anyone else had,” said Laurie Braden, the school’s director of
recreation. “University relations said it was O.K. as long as it
followed the font appropriately and didn’t take it out of scale.”

In the university recreation center arms race — with 92 schools
reporting over $1.7 billion in capital projects, according to a 2013
study from the Nirsa: Leaders in Collegiate Recreation (formerly known
as the National Intramural-Recreational Sports Association) — the latest
thing is to turn a piece of campus into something approaching a water
theme park.

At Auburn University in Alabama, for example, students can soak in a
45-person paw-print-shaped hot tub or scale a 20-foot wet climbing wall
before plunging into the pool. Designs for North Dakota State’s
facility, on which construction is scheduled to begin next year, include
a zip line that students can ride out over the water, a 36-foot-diameter
vortex of swirling water and a recessed fireplace on an island in the
middle of the pool that students can swim up to. A small “rain garden”
is planned to mist lounging students.

Over at Clemson University in South Carolina, there’s talk of
redeveloping a 38-acre property on Lake Hartwell, across from the
current rec center. The project may include “blobs,” essentially
floating mattresses placed so that students can jump from one to
another. “It’s like an obstacle course, like ‘American Ninja,’ ” said
David Frock, Clemson’s director of recreation, referring to the TV show
“American Ninja Warrior.”

> From <http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveodland/2012/03/24/college-costs-are-soaring/#cfb2b7b641bc>:
>
> According to Gordon Wadsworth, author of The College Trap, "...if the cost of college tuition was $10,000 in 1986, it would now cost the same student over $21,500 if education had increased as much as the average inflation rate but instead education is $59,800 or over 2 1/2 times the inflation rate."

YES!!!

> I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
> eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs. Those figures don't
> appear to take into consideration other costs (such as room
> and board).
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Or administrative largess writ LARGE!




http://necir.org/2014/02/06/new-anal...dministrators/

The number of non-academic administrative and professional employees at
U.S. colleges and universities has more than doubled in the last 25
years, vastly outpacing the growth in the number of students or faculty,
according to an analysis of federal figures.

The disproportionate increase in the number of university staffers who
neither teach nor conduct research has continued unabated in more recent
years, and slowed only slightly since the start of the economic
downturn, during which time colleges and universities have contended
that a dearth of resources forced them to sharply raise tuition.

In all, from 1987 until 2011-12—the most recent academic year for which
comparable figures are available—universities and colleges collectively
added 517,636 administrators and professional employees, or an average
of 87 every working day, according to the analysis of federal figures,
by the New England Center of Investigative Reporting in collaboration
with the nonprofit, nonpartisan social-science research group the
American Institutes for Research.

“There’s just a mind-boggling amount of money per student that’s being
spent on administration,” said Andrew Gillen, a senior researcher at the
institutes. “It raises a question of priorities.”

Since 1987, universities have also started or expanded departments
devoted to marketing, diversity, disability, sustainability, security,
environmental health, recruiting, technology, and fundraising, and added
new majors and graduate and athletics programs, satellite campuses, and
conference centers.

Universities and colleges continued adding employees even after the
beginning of the economic downturn, though at a slightly slower rate,
the federal figures show.

“Institutions have said that they were hurting, so I would have thought
that staffing overall would go down,” Desrochers said. “But it didn’t.”

There’s also been a massive hiring boom in central offices of public
university systems and universities with more than one campus, according
to the figures. The number of employees in central system offices has
increased six-fold since 1987, and the number of administrators in them
by a factor of more than 34.

One example, the central office of the California State University
System, now has a budget bigger than those of three of the system’s 23
campuses.

“None of them have reduced campus administrative burdens at all,” said
King, who said he is particularly frustrated by this trend. “They’ve
added a layer of bureaucracy, and in 95 percent of the cases it’s an
unnecessary bureaucracy and a counterproductive one.”

On 3/30/2016 12:15 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 10:24:38 -0600, onglet > wrote:
>
>> On 3/30/2016 9:51 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:34:34 AM UTC-6, onglet wrote:
>>>> On 3/30/2016 9:15 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>> I went to a state university, lived at home except for one year, and worked throughout
>>>>> my entire four years. What's your problem? If college costs are rolled back,
>>>>> then the dollar's value in wages and salaries should match the same era. You
>>>>> really can't have one without the other, that I can see.
>>>>>
>>>>> N.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Logical.
>>>>
>>>> Kinda puts the kibosh on all of Bernie's "free stuff" though...
>>>
>>> People will still be able to rack up thousands in debt to go to PRIVATE Universities if they choose to.
>>
>> Can you imagine....I think it's called...wait for it...FREE WILL!
>>
>>> Bernie is proposing making PUBLIC colleges tuition free!
>>
>> TANSTAAFL!
>>
>>
>> http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/03/po...college-costs/
>>
>> Sanders' free college plan would require states buy in big.
>> The Vermont senator hasn't released many details on his proposal.
>> However, his campaign pointed to legislation he introduced last year
>> that called for the federal government to cover two-thirds of the bill
>> for undergraduate students, with the states handling the rest. This
>> would cost the feds $47 billion a year, while states would be left with
>> a $23 billion tab, he estimated.
>> The price tag may turn out to be even bigger, depending on how many more
>> students enroll. A tuition-free degree would likely attract many takers.
>
> Takers is right, and they'll never give back.
>

Yes sir!

"Nancy2" > wrote in message
...
>I went to a state university, lived at home except for one year, and worked
>throughout
> my entire four years. What's your problem? If college costs are rolled
> back,
> then the dollar's value in wages and salaries should match the same era.
> You
> really can't have one without the other, that I can see.
>
> N.

Hahaha!

On 3/30/2016 12:50 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
> eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs.
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Not sure what you mean by that. Here in CT the staff is very well paid
and has great benefits and pension. $200k+ that some professors get is
generally considered a decent wage. The UCONN head of security makes
more than the head of the NYPD. The university president get $575,000 a
year.

Even starting wage for the lowest classification is decent.
http://hr.uconn.edu/ucpea-classifica...vity-schedule/

On 3/30/2016 2:35 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 3/30/2016 12:50 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
>> eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs.
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
> Not sure what you mean by that. Here in CT the staff is very well paid
> and has great benefits and pension. $200k+ that some professors get is
> generally considered a decent wage. The UCONN head of security makes
> more than the head of the NYPD. The university president get $575,000 a
> year.
>
> Even starting wage for the lowest classification is decent.
> http://hr.uconn.edu/ucpea-classifica...vity-schedule/
>

The entire pay scale is INDECENT!

This is waste writ LARGE!

On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:35:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 3/30/2016 12:50 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
>> eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs.
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
>Not sure what you mean by that. Here in CT the staff is very well paid
>and has great benefits and pension. $200k+ that some professors get is
>generally considered a decent wage. The UCONN head of security makes
>more than the head of the NYPD. The university president get $575,000 a
>year.
>
>Even starting wage for the lowest classification is decent.
>http://hr.uconn.edu/ucpea-classifica...vity-schedule/

How much does the football coach get?
Janet US

On 3/30/2016 2:54 PM, Janet B wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:35:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 3/30/2016 12:50 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
>>> eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs.
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by that. Here in CT the staff is very well paid
>> and has great benefits and pension. $200k+ that some professors get is
>> generally considered a decent wage. The UCONN head of security makes
>> more than the head of the NYPD. The university president get $575,000 a
>> year.
>>
>> Even starting wage for the lowest classification is decent.
>> http://hr.uconn.edu/ucpea-classifica...vity-schedule/
>
> How much does the football coach get?
> Janet US

That's just 1 position, does it somehow erase the bloated salaries
across the University in your opinion?

http://sports.newsday.com/long-islan...ies/bob-diaco/

Bob Diaco
College: Connecticut Conference: AAC
Base compensation

2014 guaranteed money: $1,500,000

Most collegiate sports programs are reveneue losers:

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

TOTAL REVENUE TOTAL EXPENSES TOTAL SUBSIDY % SUBSIDY

$71,519,433 $71,396,255 $27,203,031 38.04

On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:00:39 -0600, onglet > wrote:

>On 3/30/2016 2:54 PM, Janet B wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:35:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/30/2016 12:50 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
>>>> eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs.
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure what you mean by that. Here in CT the staff is very well paid
>>> and has great benefits and pension. $200k+ that some professors get is
>>> generally considered a decent wage. The UCONN head of security makes
>>> more than the head of the NYPD. The university president get $575,000 a
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Even starting wage for the lowest classification is decent.
>>> http://hr.uconn.edu/ucpea-classifica...vity-schedule/
>>
>> How much does the football coach get?
>> Janet US
>
>That's just 1 position, does it somehow erase the bloated salaries
>across the University in your opinion?
>
>http://sports.newsday.com/long-islan...ies/bob-diaco/
>
>Bob Diaco
>College: Connecticut Conference: AAC
>Base compensation
>
>2014 guaranteed money: $1,500,000
>
>Most collegiate sports programs are reveneue losers:
>
>http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
>
>TOTAL REVENUE TOTAL EXPENSES TOTAL SUBSIDY % SUBSIDY
>
>$71,519,433 $71,396,255 $27,203,031 38.04
>
>
>
You were telling me what great salaries the educators and president
get. I just wanted a comparison to the coach. So colleges and
universities are maintained to provide prep schools for pro sports?
I thought colleges and universities were intended to put out educated
individuals. As a nation we don't value our teachers very much.
Sports are far more important.
Janet US

On 3/30/2016 8:51 PM, Janet B wrote:

>>
> You were telling me what great salaries the educators and president
> get. I just wanted a comparison to the coach. So colleges and
> universities are maintained to provide prep schools for pro sports?
> I thought colleges and universities were intended to put out educated
> individuals. As a nation we don't value our teachers very much.
> Sports are far more important.
> Janet US
>

I agree sports are overriding education. Teachers are not underpaid (at
least here in CT), but coaches are overpaid. So are all sport and
celebrity figures.

Good coaches deserve a good pay, maybe 6 figures, certainly not in the
millions. Especially when kids cannot afford tuition.

On 3/30/2016 6:51 PM, Janet B wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:00:39 -0600, onglet > wrote:
>
>> On 3/30/2016 2:54 PM, Janet B wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:35:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/30/2016 12:50 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
>>>>> eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs.
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what you mean by that. Here in CT the staff is very well paid
>>>> and has great benefits and pension. $200k+ that some professors get is
>>>> generally considered a decent wage. The UCONN head of security makes
>>>> more than the head of the NYPD. The university president get $575,000 a
>>>> year.
>>>>
>>>> Even starting wage for the lowest classification is decent.
>>>> http://hr.uconn.edu/ucpea-classifica...vity-schedule/
>>>
>>> How much does the football coach get?
>>> Janet US
>>
>> That's just 1 position, does it somehow erase the bloated salaries
>> across the University in your opinion?
>>
>> http://sports.newsday.com/long-islan...ies/bob-diaco/
>>
>> Bob Diaco
>> College: Connecticut Conference: AAC
>> Base compensation
>>
>> 2014 guaranteed money: $1,500,000
>>
>> Most collegiate sports programs are reveneue losers:
>>
>> http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
>>
>> TOTAL REVENUE TOTAL EXPENSES TOTAL SUBSIDY % SUBSIDY
>>
>> $71,519,433 $71,396,255 $27,203,031 38.04
>>
>>
>>
> You were telling me what great salaries the educators and president
> get.

No, someone else was...Ed, iirc.

> I just wanted a comparison to the coach.

You got it.

> So colleges and
> universities are maintained to provide prep schools for pro sports?

Yes, it's a sinful mix of craven advertising and big $$ media.

> I thought colleges and universities were intended to put out educated
> individuals.

By charter, for some.

> As a nation we don't value our teachers very much.

Sure we do, they just don't get on lamestream media TV, do they?

> Sports are far more important.

Not at all, but the matrix thinks so.

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 4:35:21 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 3/30/2016 12:50 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> > I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
> > eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs.
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
>
> Not sure what you mean by that. Here in CT the staff is very well paid
> and has great benefits and pension. $200k+ that some professors get is
> generally considered a decent wage. The UCONN head of security makes
> more than the head of the NYPD. The university president get $575,000 a
> year.
>
> Even starting wage for the lowest classification is decent.
> http://hr.uconn.edu/ucpea-classifica...vity-schedule/

Yes, they have to compete with the private sector. However, instructors'
salaries appear to have just about kept pace with the Consumer Price Index:
<http://www.aaup.org/sites/default/files/files/2015salarysurvey/tabA.pdf>

From what I see at the University of Michigan, it's bloat in administrative
positions and building funds.

Cindy Hamilton

On 3/31/2016 4:46 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 4:35:21 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 3/30/2016 12:50 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> I'm pretty sure university staff aren't being paid enough to
>>> eat the runaway inflation in tuition costs.
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by that. Here in CT the staff is very well paid
>> and has great benefits and pension. $200k+ that some professors get is
>> generally considered a decent wage. The UCONN head of security makes
>> more than the head of the NYPD. The university president get $575,000 a
>> year.
>>
>> Even starting wage for the lowest classification is decent.
>> http://hr.uconn.edu/ucpea-classifica...vity-schedule/
>
> Yes, they have to compete with the private sector. However, instructors'
> salaries appear to have just about kept pace with the Consumer Price Index:
> <http://www.aaup.org/sites/default/files/files/2015salarysurvey/tabA.pdf>

That's a ludicrous defense at best!

And easily dismissed!

2009–10 to 2010–11 2.2 2.7 2.8 2.3 2.5 0.7 1.2 1.3 0.8 1.0 1.5
2010–11 to 2011–12 2.7 3.1 3.3 3.2 2.9 -0.3 0.1 0.3 0.2 -0.1 3.0
2011–12 to 2012–13 2.9 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.2 1.2 1.7 1.8 1.9 1.5 1.7
2012–13 to 2013–14 3.0 3.5 3.7 3.6 3.4 1.5 2.0 2.2 2.1 1.9 1.5
2013–14 to 2014–15 3.2 3.7 3.8 3.8 3.7 2.4 2.9 3.0 3.0 2.9 0.8



> From what I see at the University of Michigan, it's bloat in administrative
> positions and building funds.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Because they're chasing federal funds and saddled with tenure and union
bloat.

Stop making excuses!

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...s-overpaid-pay

It's been a tough few years for people working in higher ed: As the
recession hit, pay for faculty stagnated, and schools have been
struggling with budget cuts and the rising cost of providing education.
There's one notable exception to this trend: Pay (and perks) for college
presidents is on the rise. There are a lot of possibilities as to why
this is happening, and none of them make the world of higher education
look very good.

The number of presidents who make more than $1 million is also on the
rise, and is no longer limited to private universities. As of this year,
four presidents of public colleges are making more than $1 million,
according to a Chronicle of Higher Education analysis.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/09/th...id-professors/

Back in April, the American Association of University Professors (AAUP)
released an extensive report detailing the economic situation of the
country’s professoriate. Inside Higher Education nicely summarized the
findings.

Among the many impressive charts and graphs are listings of the various
public and private schools which employ the highest-paid full and
assistant professors.

Full professors at Columbia University bring home the highest salaries
in the industry on average ($212,300). At Harvard, the average figure is
$203,000. At Caltech, it’s $179,200.