On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:44:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 4/10/2016 7:08 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>
>>> Perhaps those who don't work get it free as well as everything else?
>>
>> Wait! People who don't work get stuff for free? How so?
>
>Welfare, public assistance, Medicaid, etc.
>
>I have a legally blind relative that cannot work for a few reasons. He
>get $500 for heat, $200 a month cash, $180 a month food, 100% medical
>coverage.
>
>Not a glamorous lifestyle, but the minimums are covered.

I'm happy that is available for him.
Janet US

"Doris Night" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:51:52 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
>>> On 2016-04-10 11:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That was the idea, but it did not work out that way. A few people
>>>> benefited, many did not. Many low income people are forced to either
>>>> pay
>>>> a premium they cannot afford or pay a penalty for having no insurance.
>>>> Varies by state, but if you have no income you are usually covered by
>>>> Medicaid.
>>>>
>>>> The plan was based on incorrect suppositions. They assumed that the
>>>> healthy 20 and 30 year olds would sign up, pay premiums, subsidize
>>>> others. They found it was cheaper to pay a $400 penalty than to buy
>>>> $6000 insurance.
>>>>
>>>> In another thread I mentioned situations like my son. He needs a knee
>>>> operation that under the old plan would have been a $500 copay but is
>>>> now $6000. He is paying the same premium, less coverage. Many people
>>>> have run into that.
>>>
>>> That same operation here..... no copay.... no charge.
>>
>>If they decide to grant it to you. And if you can get to the assigned
>>hospital if they do.
>
> If your doctor decides you need a specific treatment, you get it. And
> there's no such thing as an "assigned hospital" in Canada.

There was when my friend in New Brunswick needed a sleep study. They sent
her far away.

So are you telling me that if you need an operation, then you get to pick
the hospital? That any Dr. can practise at any hospital?

When I had my last two operations, I had no choice because each Dr. had
priveledges at that hospital and that hospital only.

When I was taken from the ER to be admitted (ER does not have a hospital), I
could not go to the hospital of my choice as they were full up. I should
imagine that things would at least be similar there.
>
> While we're on the topic, Americans (including you, Julie) frequently
> go on about not having access to doctors outside of their insurance
> company's group. I forget exactly what you call that. In Canada, there
> are no restrictions like that.

It's not out of our insurance company's group. Unless you belong to an HMO
which I would never do unless I had no choice.

Some Drs. and pharmacies take my insurance. Some do not. I think all
hospitals do unless they are run by an HMO. I also have the ability in many
cases to go to a specialist if I choose too. I do not have to wait for my
GP to tell me that I need one.

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:38:22 +0100, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:45:29 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I spend 4 days in ICU and another 3 nights in the hospital. I was
>>>>> billed
>>>>> nothing for all that.
>>>>
>>>>My God. If that was in the USA, you would face a bill of (just
>>>>guessing) over $20K.
>>>>
>>>>That night 7.5 years ago that I had severe asthma and was stuck
>>>>sitting on the toilet all night - very labored breathing and even a 7
>>>>step walk to the phone to call for help would have killed me. After
>>>>spending about 8 hours on the damn toilet with very labored breathing
>>>>all night, I was finally healed enough to get up, dressed, and I drove
>>>>to a "minor emergency clinic." Very labored breathing even for that.
>>>>
>>>>As soon as they heard that I had no insurance, they treated me quite
>>>>shabbily (imo). They didn't want me there and acted like I was some
>>>>bum off the street after free medical care. I was told that the doctor
>>>>was running a bit late and I should go to the emergency room.
>>>
>>> A clinic would not have told you to drive to the ER, they would have
>>> called an ambulance.
>>>
>>>>I told
>>>>them that I was doing ok just sitting there and waiting but to get up
>>>>again would be a hardship. I'm not leaving.
>>>>
>>>>So then she told me, "You know, this could be expensive"
>>>>I told her, "I've got money, I'll pay for this today"
>>>>She still didn't seem convinced. Again, I was made to feel like some
>>>>bum.
>>>>
>>>>So I finally got to see the doctor. They treated me there and I was
>>>>good to go plus I got prescriptions. Funny how just 1/2 hour treatment
>>>>in the doctors office fixed me when I really almost died of asthma
>>>>attack
>>>
>>> That's why you need medication at home, you should have an Albuterol
>>> Sulphate inhaler on you at all times, and a nebulizer at home... with
>>> a neb treatment at home you'd be fine in ten minutes.
>>
>>Yes, I have all those things and have never got into difficulties the way
>>Gary did. As soon as I have a problem I have everything I need to treat
>>myself instantly!
>>
>>I hope Gary will take better care of himself now. What he suffered and
>>the
>>way he was treated was dreadful.
>
> Essentially it was Gary's own doing. Nebulizers cost very little,
> $50-$80, they can even be obtained for free. Albuterol sulphate
> ampules are dirt cheap, they cost no more than smelling salts, usually
> free from ones doctor. If his primary care physcian knows he has no
> insurance and can't aford medication a plan can be set up with the
> pharmaceutical company to provide meds for free from a local pharmacy,
> plus doctors have lots of free samples, just need to ask. Gary was
> really nutso to sit in his toilit all night because he had no
> medication on hand that could save his life, what a low IQ jerk. If
> the story he told is true (which I doubt) he's very lucky to have
> lived, Asthma exacerbations don't get better by waiting, they become
> worse. Gary, if you are truly an Asthmatic, get educated, if you're
> lying STFU.

I don't believe he is lying! He has mentioned his asthma in the past.

Gary do get equipped properly. Asthma can kill


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
>
> "carnal asada" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 4/10/2016 6:21 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>>
>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 4/10/2016 7:51 PM, carnal asada wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sanders is also counting on hundreds of billions in savings from the
>>>>> shift away from private insurance: reductions in overhead, lower
>>>>> hospital and doctors' fees, and lower prescription drug prices.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, that will work. Doctors are going to work for that $15 an hour
>>>> everyone wants too.
>>>
>>> $15.00 an hour for surfing the net to find cures sounds reasonable to
>>> me. ;-)
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>
>> Lol, internet outsourcing will about all that's left after the machines
>> take over.
>
> My doc routinely checks the net during visits. I can do that myself.
>

Does your doc visit a lot?? I hope you are all ok!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 10:32:35 PM UTC-4, Doris Night wrote:

> While we're on the topic, Americans (including you, Julie) frequently
> go on about not having access to doctors outside of their insurance
> company's group. I forget exactly what you call that. In Canada, there
> are no restrictions like that.

There are hundreds (or thousands) of different health insurance policies.

With some, you are covered only if you see doctors approved by the
insurance plan (unless it's an ER visit).

With others, you are covered a lot for doctors participating in the plan, but
less for doctors who are not participating in the plan.

With still others, you can see any doctor anywhere and coverage is the same.

Typically, the first arrangement is has the cheapest premiums and the
third arrangement has the most expensive premiums. My employer offers
insurance of the first type, and my husband's employer offers insurance
of the second type. Our portion of the premiums is the same for either
one, so we buy his insurance instead of mine. Why is the cost the same?
Either it's because his company is a great deal larger than mine, or
because his company picks up a greater percentage of the premium.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 10:32:35 PM UTC-4, Doris Night wrote:
>
>> While we're on the topic, Americans (including you, Julie) frequently
>> go on about not having access to doctors outside of their insurance
>> company's group. I forget exactly what you call that. In Canada, there
>> are no restrictions like that.
>
>There are hundreds (or thousands) of different health insurance policies.
>
>With some, you are covered only if you see doctors approved by the
>insurance plan (unless it's an ER visit).
>
>With others, you are covered a lot for doctors participating in the plan, but
>less for doctors who are not participating in the plan.
>
>With still others, you can see any doctor anywhere and coverage is the same.
>
>Typically, the first arrangement is has the cheapest premiums and the
>third arrangement has the most expensive premiums. My employer offers
>insurance of the first type, and my husband's employer offers insurance
>of the second type. Our portion of the premiums is the same for either
>one, so we buy his insurance instead of mine. Why is the cost the same?
>Either it's because his company is a great deal larger than mine, or
>because his company picks up a greater percentage of the premium.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Wow that's complicated ! It's very confusing - do they actually give
you lists so you will know where to go or who to see?

On 2016-04-10 11:14 PM, Janet B wrote:

>> My relative in Saskatchewan need a knee replacement, got it quickly and is
>> doing well.
>>
>> Cheri
>
> too many people have been guzzling the conservative Kool-Aid because
> by nature they want to feel put upon.

The health care business has a powerful lobby and put out a lot of bad
press about our system because a lot of people in the insurance business
stand to lose a lot of money. They want you to think the system is a
failure and that everyone is unhappy. Someone posted something about
more than half of us being unhappy with the health care system. I don't
know where they get that because most of us are quite happy with it and
consider it to be far better than the American system.

On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 7:31:25 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 10:32:35 PM UTC-4, Doris Night wrote:
> >
> >> While we're on the topic, Americans (including you, Julie) frequently
> >> go on about not having access to doctors outside of their insurance
> >> company's group. I forget exactly what you call that. In Canada, there
> >> are no restrictions like that.
> >
> >There are hundreds (or thousands) of different health insurance policies.
> >
> >With some, you are covered only if you see doctors approved by the
> >insurance plan (unless it's an ER visit).
> >
> >With others, you are covered a lot for doctors participating in the plan, but
> >less for doctors who are not participating in the plan.
> >
> >With still others, you can see any doctor anywhere and coverage is the same.
> >
> >Typically, the first arrangement is has the cheapest premiums and the
> >third arrangement has the most expensive premiums. My employer offers
> >insurance of the first type, and my husband's employer offers insurance
> >of the second type. Our portion of the premiums is the same for either
> >one, so we buy his insurance instead of mine. Why is the cost the same?
> >Either it's because his company is a great deal larger than mine, or
> >because his company picks up a greater percentage of the premium.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
>
> Wow that's complicated ! It's very confusing - do they actually give
> you lists so you will know where to go or who to see?

Websites, nowadays. Used to be a big book like a phone book of
every doctor in the state that was "in network".

The trick is to pick a primary care physician who's in the network
(or vice versa, if you have a choice of insurance plans as we do),
and then make sure any referrals he makes are also in network.

In practice, because of competition, insurance companies want as
my doctors as possible in their network so they'll look attractive
when employers are shopping for insurance plans, and doctors want
to participate in as many plans as possible so they'll look
attractive to prospective patients. The downside is the stupid
amount of paperwork that doctor offices have to fill out, since
every insurance plan has different paperwork.

Friend at work has a wife who's a doctor. She says the Medicare
paperwork is the easiest. So much for the invisible hand of
the marketplace.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:11:15 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-04-10 11:14 PM, Janet B wrote:
>
>>> My relative in Saskatchewan need a knee replacement, got it quickly and is
>>> doing well.
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>
>> too many people have been guzzling the conservative Kool-Aid because
>> by nature they want to feel put upon.
>
>The health care business has a powerful lobby and put out a lot of bad
>press about our system because a lot of people in the insurance business
>stand to lose a lot of money. They want you to think the system is a
>failure and that everyone is unhappy. Someone posted something about
>more than half of us being unhappy with the health care system. I don't
>know where they get that because most of us are quite happy with it and
>consider it to be far better than the American system.
>
I echo that - my health is the furthest thing from my mind because I
know it will always be taken care of and I will not have to bankrupt
myself to pay for anything. As I already said, Canadians regard our
health care as a Sacred Cow and there is not a politician that would
dare to change that, which given politicians, really says a lot.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:12:56 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 7:31:25 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 10:32:35 PM UTC-4, Doris Night wrote:
>> >
>> >> While we're on the topic, Americans (including you, Julie) frequently
>> >> go on about not having access to doctors outside of their insurance
>> >> company's group. I forget exactly what you call that. In Canada, there
>> >> are no restrictions like that.
>> >
>> >There are hundreds (or thousands) of different health insurance policies.
>> >
>> >With some, you are covered only if you see doctors approved by the
>> >insurance plan (unless it's an ER visit).
>> >
>> >With others, you are covered a lot for doctors participating in the plan, but
>> >less for doctors who are not participating in the plan.
>> >
>> >With still others, you can see any doctor anywhere and coverage is the same.
>> >
>> >Typically, the first arrangement is has the cheapest premiums and the
>> >third arrangement has the most expensive premiums. My employer offers
>> >insurance of the first type, and my husband's employer offers insurance
>> >of the second type. Our portion of the premiums is the same for either
>> >one, so we buy his insurance instead of mine. Why is the cost the same?
>> >Either it's because his company is a great deal larger than mine, or
>> >because his company picks up a greater percentage of the premium.
>> >
>> >Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> Wow that's complicated ! It's very confusing - do they actually give
>> you lists so you will know where to go or who to see?
>
>Websites, nowadays. Used to be a big book like a phone book of
>every doctor in the state that was "in network".
>
>The trick is to pick a primary care physician who's in the network
>(or vice versa, if you have a choice of insurance plans as we do),
>and then make sure any referrals he makes are also in network.
>
>In practice, because of competition, insurance companies want as
>my doctors as possible in their network so they'll look attractive
>when employers are shopping for insurance plans, and doctors want
>to participate in as many plans as possible so they'll look
>attractive to prospective patients. The downside is the stupid
>amount of paperwork that doctor offices have to fill out, since
>every insurance plan has different paperwork.
>
>Friend at work has a wife who's a doctor. She says the Medicare
>paperwork is the easiest. So much for the invisible hand of
>the marketplace.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Thanks an interesting over view of how the system works. Sometimes it
is difficult getting a family doctor here - when my doc retired early
I wanted a specific doc but she wasn't taking patients so I wrote a
letter to her - at the end I told her it was a begging letter and pls
read it that way! She has a great sense of humour I have found, so I
was in, even though she wasn't taking patients.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:45:29 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
> >Dave Smith wrote:
> >>
> >> I spend 4 days in ICU and another 3 nights in the hospital. I was billed
> >> nothing for all that.
> >
> >My God. If that was in the USA, you would face a bill of (just
> >guessing) over $20K.
> >
> >That night 7.5 years ago that I had severe asthma and was stuck
> >sitting on the toilet all night - very labored breathing and even a 7
> >step walk to the phone to call for help would have killed me. After
> >spending about 8 hours on the damn toilet with very labored breathing
> >all night, I was finally healed enough to get up, dressed, and I drove
> >to a "minor emergency clinic." Very labored breathing even for that.
> >
> >As soon as they heard that I had no insurance, they treated me quite
> >shabbily (imo). They didn't want me there and acted like I was some
> >bum off the street after free medical care. I was told that the doctor
> >was running a bit late and I should go to the emergency room.
>
> A clinic would not have told you to drive to the ER, they would have
> called an ambulance.
>
> >I told
> >them that I was doing ok just sitting there and waiting but to get up
> >again would be a hardship. I'm not leaving.
> >
> >So then she told me, "You know, this could be expensive"
> >I told her, "I've got money, I'll pay for this today"
> >She still didn't seem convinced. Again, I was made to feel like some
> >bum.
> >
> >So I finally got to see the doctor. They treated me there and I was
> >good to go plus I got prescriptions. Funny how just 1/2 hour treatment
> >in the doctors office fixed me when I really almost died of asthma
> >attack
>
> That's why you need medication at home, you should have an Albuterol
> Sulphate inhaler on you at all times, and a nebulizer at home... with
> a neb treatment at home you'd be fine in ten minutes.
>
> >just hours earlier in the bathroom and then ferrets in cage
> >would have died too, if I did.
> >
> >Doctor visit was $75 plus treatment...total $150. No big deal and I
> >paid before I left.
> >If I had gone to the hospital's emergency room for that, it would have
> >cost way over $1000.
>
> Had you dialed 911 an ambulance would have arrived and the EMTs would
> have treated you and/or brought you to the ER. If you had no
> insurance they'd still have to treat you.
> If you're an Asthmatic why didn't you have a rescue inhaler?
> You really shouldn't have driven a car in your condition... don't you
> have a neighor who could drive you in an emergency?
> Why don't you have medical insurance, if you're over 55 you can get a
> very inexpensive plan through AARP... it would cover your Asthma meds.
> which aren't very expensive to begin with, the pharmaceutical
> companies will supply meds for free too, and your primary care doctor
> has samples, ask. With AARP insurance many of the basic Asthma meds
> are free, no co-pay... it's a lot less expensive to give you a dollars
> worth of meds for free than paying your hospital bills. Sitting on
> the toilet all night struggling to breathe is a definite indication of
> mental illness.

Sheldon. You assumed way too much and failed with most of your
guesses.
Don't be a putz. It was the night from hell for me and all was true.
I had prescription drugs and they quit working.
The doctor gave me Prednizone, the extreme reaction fix. That's what
fixed my problem, plus I got many free drugs and prescriptions for
more.

Sitting on the toilet all night, deep breathing was survival.
Thankfully, I had a book with me.
As one point, I accepted that I was probably going to die
right there. Then my concern switched to my 2 ferrets in a
cage in the bedroom. I didn't want to die and have them die
too.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Sitting on
> the toilet all night struggling to breathe is a definite indication of
> mental illness.

In my area, it's called survival.

sf wrote:
>
> Just the cost of an ambulance ride alone is horrible. Almost 30 years
> ago, it was at $600. I shudder to think what they bill now.

In my town, 911 calls and responses are always free. It's a voluntary
force. Ambulance to the hospital costs nothing. This is the one
charity that I donate to each year.

On 4/10/2016 10:32 PM, Doris Night wrote:

>
> While we're on the topic, Americans (including you, Julie) frequently
> go on about not having access to doctors outside of their insurance
> company's group. I forget exactly what you call that. In Canada, there
> are no restrictions like that.
>
> Doris
>

You are talking about "in network"
That does not apply to everyone, just certain insurance companies. I've
never been restricted. Anyone over 65 on Medicare is not restricted
either as long as the doctor accepts it.

We've elected to stick with Reliant Medical because the service and care
is excellent, but we can go to any doctor we choose. Reliant has pretty
much every type of doctor you ever need and they have access to your
records when needed. You can have an X-ray done and any doctor in the
system you see can have instant access to it.

Some insurance companies have agreements with medical practices to
accept negotiated discount rates to keep cost in check.

On 4/11/2016 9:11 AM, Dave Smith wrote:

>
> The health care business has a powerful lobby and put out a lot of bad
> press about our system because a lot of people in the insurance business
> stand to lose a lot of money. They want you to think the system is a
> failure and that everyone is unhappy. Someone posted something about
> more than half of us being unhappy with the health care system. I don't
> know where they get that because most of us are quite happy with it and
> consider it to be far better than the American system.
>

You said you now have to pay a small premium for coverage. That is just
the first step to a larger premium How USA of them to start you on the
path.

Sounds to me that both systems need some work. At least I know what my
payments are, you guys have it buried in taxes and no one seems to
really know what it is costing you.

On 4/11/2016 12:03 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On 4/10/2016 7:44 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 4/10/2016 7:08 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> Perhaps those who don't work get it free as well as everything else?
>>>
>>> Wait! People who don't work get stuff for free? How so?
>>
>> Welfare, public assistance, Medicaid, etc.
>>
>> I have a legally blind relative that cannot work for a few reasons. He
>> get $500 for heat, $200 a month cash, $180 a month food, 100% medical
>> coverage.
>>
>> Not a glamorous lifestyle, but the minimums are covered.
>
>
> For "free"?
>
> Nah.

Free to the recipient. NOT free for the rest of us.

On 4/11/2016 12:34 AM, Janet B wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:44:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2016 7:08 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> Perhaps those who don't work get it free as well as everything else?
>>>
>>> Wait! People who don't work get stuff for free? How so?
>>
>> Welfare, public assistance, Medicaid, etc.
>>
>> I have a legally blind relative that cannot work for a few reasons. He
>> get $500 for heat, $200 a month cash, $180 a month food, 100% medical
>> coverage.
>>
>> Not a glamorous lifestyle, but the minimums are covered.
>
> I'm happy that is available for him.
> Janet US
>

As are the rest of us that still cover the other costs in life.

On 4/10/2016 10:51 PM, Janet B wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:32:25 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2016 1:10 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:45:29 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I spend 4 days in ICU and another 3 nights in the hospital. I was billed
>>>>> nothing for all that.
>>>>
>>>> My God. If that was in the USA, you would face a bill of (just
>>>> guessing) over $20K.
>>>>
>>>> That night 7.5 years ago that I had severe asthma and was stuck
>>>> sitting on the toilet all night - very labored breathing and even a 7
>>>> step walk to the phone to call for help would have killed me. After
>>>> spending about 8 hours on the damn toilet with very labored breathing
>>>> all night, I was finally healed enough to get up, dressed, and I drove
>>>> to a "minor emergency clinic." Very labored breathing even for that.
>>>>
>>>> As soon as they heard that I had no insurance, they treated me quite
>>>> shabbily (imo). They didn't want me there and acted like I was some
>>>> bum off the street after free medical care. I was told that the doctor
>>>> was running a bit late and I should go to the emergency room.
>>>
>>> A clinic would not have told you to drive to the ER, they would have
>>> called an ambulance.
>>>
>> Not if he was capable of driving.
>>
>> My neighbor went to an urgent care clinic last year. They quickly
>> diagnosed her with an embolism/blood clot in her leg which could have
>> traveled to her heart/lungs. She was perfectly rational and capable of
>> driving a few miles further to hospital. No ambulance required. Oh,
>> and she had insurance.
>>
>> Jill
> It is possible to walk around with a clot in the leg for weeks and
> weeks and not have it move. (BTDT, I didn't know why my leg had a
> sore spot) I didn't have to drive myself to the hospital after the
> tentative diagnosis because the doctor's office was within the
> hospital campus and I was sent for an ultrasound. They withheld
> surgery until the next day because I had already eaten several meals
> that day. Having a blood clot is something to be taken care of but
> not a 5 alarm fire.
> Did the urgent care use ultra sound to detect the blood clot or was
> she sent to the hospital to have an ultra sound done?
> Janet US
>
I don't know the symptoms she had. Possibly a store spot. Something
prompted her to go to the nearby Urgent Care clinic. They sent her to
the hospital. Might not have been the ER but they told her she needed
to have it taken care of.

I hadn't seen her for a few days. It's rare I don't see her. She's
always out puttering in her yard. Her absence was conspicuous. I saw
her outside the next week and commented "I haven't seen you around much.
"Oh, I was in the hospital. Had a blood clot removed from my leg."

I think they did the initial tests (don't know if it was an ultrasound)
at the Urgent Care clinic. From what she said they realized hey, you
have a potential problem here. So she drove herself to the hospital.
Might not have been the ER, I am hazy about that. But she did have to
have surgery to remove the clot before it had a chace to move. She's 70
years old so she's got Medicare and probably a Medicare supplement.

I don't want to think about what it would cost to pay for that out of
pocket.

Jill

Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Gary was
> really nutso to sit in his toilit all night because he had no
> medication on hand that could save his life, what a low IQ jerk. If
> the story he told is true (which I doubt) he's very lucky to have
> lived, Asthma exacerbations don't get better by waiting, they become
> worse. Gary, if you are truly an Asthmatic, get educated, if you're
> lying STFU.

What an inconceivably ignorant post from a total putz.
Just be thankful that you weren't there instead of me.

The old saying is evidently true:
"He who knows it all, knows nothing."

jmcquown wrote:
>
> Hmmm, according to the White House, Gary is in his 100's.

LOL! Yeah, you saw the letter. According to White House
records, I'll be age 105 in a couple of months. :-D

Would be nice if I could get back payments from SS. heheh

"Jeßus" wrote:
>
> I'd still like to see a real black person win office. Methinks that is
> still a long, long way off yet.

I find that comment interesting. I vote for the most qualified, not
because the candidate is black, white, male or female.

It's not a fashion show.

On 4/11/2016 9:56 AM, Gary wrote:
> sf wrote:
>>
>> Just the cost of an ambulance ride alone is horrible. Almost 30 years
>> ago, it was at $600. I shudder to think what they bill now.
>
> In my town, 911 calls and responses are always free. It's a voluntary
> force. Ambulance to the hospital costs nothing. This is the one
> charity that I donate to each year.
>

Our ambulance will bill your insurance company. Last time I saw a bill
it was over $1000. No insurance? No problem, just toss the bill.

On 4/11/2016 10:56 AM, Janet B wrote:

> You need to be fair about the company insurance plan. Companies have
> been striving for decades toward no insurance plans for employees and
> retirees. You can bet there was a lot of whooping and hollering in
> board rooms across the country when they had an excuse to drop
> beneficiaries. IMO, retirees have no right to insurance benefits from
> a company that no longer employs them.
> Janet US
>

They do not have a "right", but like other benefits, it is just part of
the compensation plan. An expensive one getting more expensive as
people live longer.

I know of one person that took an offered early retirement from his
company about 12 years ago. Part of the deal was insurance for life. He
has no idea where he stands in the future as the company in in
bankruptcy proceeding and will have a new owner.

Nice benefit, but not always sustainable.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:49:40 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 4/10/2016 10:51 PM, Janet B wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:32:25 -0400, jmcquown >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/10/2016 1:10 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:45:29 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I spend 4 days in ICU and another 3 nights in the hospital. I was billed
>>>>>> nothing for all that.
>>>>>
>>>>> My God. If that was in the USA, you would face a bill of (just
>>>>> guessing) over $20K.
>>>>>
>>>>> That night 7.5 years ago that I had severe asthma and was stuck
>>>>> sitting on the toilet all night - very labored breathing and even a 7
>>>>> step walk to the phone to call for help would have killed me. After
>>>>> spending about 8 hours on the damn toilet with very labored breathing
>>>>> all night, I was finally healed enough to get up, dressed, and I drove
>>>>> to a "minor emergency clinic." Very labored breathing even for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> As soon as they heard that I had no insurance, they treated me quite
>>>>> shabbily (imo). They didn't want me there and acted like I was some
>>>>> bum off the street after free medical care. I was told that the doctor
>>>>> was running a bit late and I should go to the emergency room.
>>>>
>>>> A clinic would not have told you to drive to the ER, they would have
>>>> called an ambulance.
>>>>
>>> Not if he was capable of driving.
>>>
>>> My neighbor went to an urgent care clinic last year. They quickly
>>> diagnosed her with an embolism/blood clot in her leg which could have
>>> traveled to her heart/lungs. She was perfectly rational and capable of
>>> driving a few miles further to hospital. No ambulance required. Oh,
>>> and she had insurance.
>>>
>>> Jill
>> It is possible to walk around with a clot in the leg for weeks and
>> weeks and not have it move. (BTDT, I didn't know why my leg had a
>> sore spot) I didn't have to drive myself to the hospital after the
>> tentative diagnosis because the doctor's office was within the
>> hospital campus and I was sent for an ultrasound. They withheld
>> surgery until the next day because I had already eaten several meals
>> that day. Having a blood clot is something to be taken care of but
>> not a 5 alarm fire.
>> Did the urgent care use ultra sound to detect the blood clot or was
>> she sent to the hospital to have an ultra sound done?
>> Janet US
>>
>I don't know the symptoms she had. Possibly a store spot. Something
>prompted her to go to the nearby Urgent Care clinic. They sent her to
>the hospital. Might not have been the ER but they told her she needed
>to have it taken care of.
>
>I hadn't seen her for a few days. It's rare I don't see her. She's
>always out puttering in her yard. Her absence was conspicuous. I saw
>her outside the next week and commented "I haven't seen you around much.
> "Oh, I was in the hospital. Had a blood clot removed from my leg."
>
>I think they did the initial tests (don't know if it was an ultrasound)
>at the Urgent Care clinic. From what she said they realized hey, you
>have a potential problem here. So she drove herself to the hospital.
>Might not have been the ER, I am hazy about that. But she did have to
>have surgery to remove the clot before it had a chace to move. She's 70
>years old so she's got Medicare and probably a Medicare supplement.
>
>I don't want to think about what it would cost to pay for that out of
>pocket.
>
>Jill
I guess I was lucky. I didn't have surgery to have it removed. I did
have surgery to place a 'screen' before my heart to prevent the clot
from getting to heart. I was treated with a blood thinner.
Janet US

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:58:10 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>"Jeßus" wrote:
>>
>> I'd still like to see a real black person win office. Methinks that is
>> still a long, long way off yet.
>
>I find that comment interesting. I vote for the most qualified, not
>because the candidate is black, white, male or female.
>
>It's not a fashion show.

Anything causes a fuss. When Kennedy was running, because he was
Catholic, it was said that to vote for him meant that the Pope would
be running the U.S.
Janet US

"Gary" > wrote in message ...

> Sheldon. You assumed way too much and failed with most of your
> guesses.
> Don't be a putz. It was the night from hell for me and all was true.
> I had prescription drugs and they quit working.
> The doctor gave me Prednizone, the extreme reaction fix. That's what
> fixed my problem, plus I got many free drugs and prescriptions for
> more.

Yes, Steroids. I hate them but sometimes it is the only answer.

> Sitting on the toilet all night, deep breathing was survival.
> Thankfully, I had a book with me.
> As one point, I accepted that I was probably going to die
> right there. Then my concern switched to my 2 ferrets in a
> cage in the bedroom. I didn't want to die and have them die
> too.

It might be good if you could get a nebuliser. That really hits the
problem. It is like your inhaler but massively stronger. I don't like
using it because it makes me very shaky, but sometimes there is no other
choice. Ya just gotta breathe




--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:13:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 4/11/2016 10:56 AM, Janet B wrote:
>
>> You need to be fair about the company insurance plan. Companies have
>> been striving for decades toward no insurance plans for employees and
>> retirees. You can bet there was a lot of whooping and hollering in
>> board rooms across the country when they had an excuse to drop
>> beneficiaries. IMO, retirees have no right to insurance benefits from
>> a company that no longer employs them.
>> Janet US
>>
>
>They do not have a "right", but like other benefits, it is just part of
>the compensation plan. An expensive one getting more expensive as
>people live longer.
>
>I know of one person that took an offered early retirement from his
>company about 12 years ago. Part of the deal was insurance for life. He
>has no idea where he stands in the future as the company in in
>bankruptcy proceeding and will have a new owner.
>
>Nice benefit, but not always sustainable.

He's SOL.
Janet US

On 2016-04-11, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Our ambulance will bill your insurance company. Last time I saw a bill
> it was over $1000. No insurance? No problem, just toss the bill.

One thing to watch for: our ambulance company picked up my mom when
she cracked her patella (kneecap). They charged over $1000 jes fer
the 20 mile drive to the local hospital. What blew me away was the
added $1200 charge fer putting an oxygen monitor on her finger. The
next time I hadda call an ambulance for Mom, I told them I would NOT
pay for an O2 monitor. Evidently, the monitor was not used, as it did
not appear on the bill.

BTW, I have some of the best auto insurance in the US and the
ambulance company billed me, not them. Apparently, all ambulance
companies do not operate the same.

nb

On 2016-04-11 10:08 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> You said you now have to pay a small premium for coverage. That is just
> the first step to a larger premium How USA of them to start you on the
> path.
>
> Sounds to me that both systems need some work. At least I know what my
> payments are, you guys have it buried in taxes and no one seems to
> really know what it is costing you.
>

The annual premium is less than a lot of Americans are paying monthly,
and our overall taxes are not higher than yours.

On 4/11/2016 12:51 AM, Je�us wrote:
> I'd still like to see a real black person win office. Methinks that is
> still a long, long way off yet.


Are ALL Auztards racist ****wits like YOU????

On 4/11/2016 7:20 AM, wrote:
> Canadians regard our
> health care as a Sacred Cow

A FAILED sacred cow - provably!

http://civitasreview.com/healthcare/...its-a-failure/

Just yesterday, I wrote about how unpopular the British healthcare
system has become. Today comes news that the man largely responsible for
Canada's conversion to a single-payer health care system has admitted
the system's failu

"Back in the 1960s, (Claude) Castonguay chaired a Canadian government
committee studying health reform and recommended that his home province
of Quebec — then the largest and most affluent in the country — adopt
government-administered health care, covering all citizens through tax
levies.

The government followed his advice, leading to his modern-day moniker:
"the father of Quebec medicare." Even this title seems modest;
Castonguay's work triggered a domino effect across the country, until
eventually his ideas were implemented from coast to coast."

Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing
Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in
"crisis."

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services
or injecting massive amounts of new money into it," says Castonguay. But
now he prescribes a radical overhaul: "We are proposing to give a
greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom
of choice."

As more and more nations throughout the world seek to infuse more
private, market-based solutions into their government-controlled
healthcare systems, for some reason lefties in this country want to make
the same mistake that countries like Canada made decades ago. Let's hope
voters in North Carolina and across the US wake up, or else we may be
forced to confront "rationing services or injecting massive amounts of
new money" into a system that even one of its pioneers admits to being a
failure.

On 4/11/2016 7:53 AM, Gary wrote:
> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> Sitting on
>> the toilet all night struggling to breathe is a definite indication of
>> mental illness.
>
> In my area, it's called survival.
>

Careful, Shelly will cook you up some massive mystery roast with
portions designed to feed a whole shift and then question why you're not
stuffing yourself like a pig!

"onglet" > wrote in message ...
> On 4/11/2016 7:53 AM, Gary wrote:
>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>
>>> Sitting on
>>> the toilet all night struggling to breathe is a definite indication of
>>> mental illness.
>>
>> In my area, it's called survival.
>>
>
> Careful, Shelly will cook you up some massive mystery roast with
> portions designed to feed a whole shift and then question why you're not
> stuffing yourself like a pig!

LOL

On 4/11/2016 8:56 AM, Janet B wrote:
> IMO, retirees have no right to insurance benefits from
> a company that no longer employs them.
> Janet US

Oh?

So a pre-existing contract should NOT be honored?

Seriously?

Wow.

On 4/11/2016 9:06 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/11/2016 9:56 AM, Gary wrote:
>> sf wrote:
>>>
>>> Just the cost of an ambulance ride alone is horrible. Almost 30 years
>>> ago, it was at $600. I shudder to think what they bill now.
>>
>> In my town, 911 calls and responses are always free. It's a voluntary
>> force. Ambulance to the hospital costs nothing. This is the one
>> charity that I donate to each year.
>>
>
> Our ambulance will bill your insurance company. Last time I saw a bill
> it was over $1000. No insurance? No problem, just toss the bill.


Not all that different from what the Mexican government does when we try
and bill them for their illegals use of US emergency rooms:


www.capsweb.org/pop-facts/how-pop-affects-you...

A large percentage of California hospitals are losing money; hundreds of
medical clinics ... trouble; and at least 84 hospitals have closed in
the last dozen years, many due to overuse of emergency rooms and illegal
aliens' unpaid medical bills.


www.wnd.com/2005/03/29329/

Mar 13, 2005 -“The influx of illegal aliens has serious hidden medical
.... According to her study, 84 California hospitals are closing their
.... hospitals closed because half their services became unpaid.... When
Linda Torres was arrested in Bakersfield, Calif., with about $8,500 in
small bills in a sack, the police originally ...


toprightnews.com/anchor-baby-outrage-american...

Aug 20, 2015 - A staggering 84 hospitals in California alone, have been
forced to close their doors because of unpaid bills by illegal aliens.....

www.thenewamerican.com/.../immigration/.../20...


Feb 24, 2011 - For example, utilization rate of hospitals and clinics by
illegal aliens ... hospital bankruptcies: 84 California hospitals are
closing their doors ... 77 hospitals enter bankruptcy due to unpaid
medical bills incurred by illegal aliens.

On 4/11/2016 9:13 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> They do not have a "right", but like other benefits, it is just part of
> the compensation plan. An expensive one getting more expensive as
> people live longer.

It's a contract, a legally binding instrument - period.

> I know of one person that took an offered early retirement from his
> company about 12 years ago. Part of the deal was insurance for life. He
> has no idea where he stands in the future as the company in in
> bankruptcy proceeding and will have a new owner.
>
> Nice benefit, but not always sustainable.

Bankruptcy changes everything, regardless.

But it is an enforceable contract.

On 4/11/2016 9:39 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-04-11 10:08 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> You said you now have to pay a small premium for coverage. That is just
>> the first step to a larger premium How USA of them to start you on the
>> path.
>>
>> Sounds to me that both systems need some work. At least I know what my
>> payments are, you guys have it buried in taxes and no one seems to
>> really know what it is costing you.
>>
>
> The annual premium is less than a lot of Americans are paying monthly,
> and our overall taxes are not higher than yours.

BULLSHIT PREVARICATION!


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/nadeem-...b_3733080.html

But the reality is that the Canadian health care system is not free --
in fact, Canadian families pay heavily for healthcare through the tax
system. That high price paints the long wait times and lack of medical
technologies in Canada in a very different light.

In 2013, a typical Canadian family of four can expect to pay $11,320 for
public health care insurance. For the average family of two parents with
one child that bill will be $10,989, and for the average family of two
adults (without children) the bill comes to $11,381. As a result of
lower average incomes and differences in taxation, the bills are smaller
for the average unattached individual ($3,780), for the average
one-parent-one-child family ($3,905), and the average one-parent
two-child family ($3,387). But no matter the family type, the bill is
not small, much less free.

And the bill is getting bigger over time. Before inflation, the cost of
public health care insurance went up by 53.3 per cent over the last
decade. That's more than 1.5 times faster than the cost of shelter (34.2
per cent) and clothing (32.4 per cent), and more than twice as fast as
the cost of food (23.4 per cent). It's also nearly 1.5 times faster than
the growth in average income over the decade (36.3 per cent).

And what did these substantial funds buy?

Despite talk of wait times reduction initiatives (backed with
substantial funding), Canadians face longer wait times than their
counterparts in other developed nations for emergency care, primary
care, specialist consultations, and elective surgery. Access to
physicians and medical technologies in Canada lags behind many other
developed nations. And things have improved little since 2003. For
example, the total wait time in 2012 (17.7 weeks from GP to treatment)
is every bit as long it was back then.

Don't be fooled by claims that health spending isn't high enough or that
transfers for health care to the provinces have been insufficient.
Canada's health care system is the developed world's most expensive
universal-access health care program after adjusting for the age of the
population (older people require more care).

Canadians aren't suffering from health care underfunding; they're
suffering from health care underperformance.

And it gets worse. Changing demographics mean Canada's health care
system has a funding gap of $537 billion. While health care is costly
and underperforming today, in the absence of reform the future will
either hold large increases in taxes, further reductions in the
availability of medical services, further erosion of non-health care
government services, or all of the above.

In article >,
says...
>
> On 4/10/2016 1:10 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:45:29 -0400, Gary > wrote:
> >
> >> Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I spend 4 days in ICU and another 3 nights in the hospital. I was billed
> >>> nothing for all that.
> >>
> >> My God. If that was in the USA, you would face a bill of (just
> >> guessing) over $20K.
> >>
> >> That night 7.5 years ago that I had severe asthma and was stuck
> >> sitting on the toilet all night - very labored breathing and even a 7
> >> step walk to the phone to call for help would have killed me. After
> >> spending about 8 hours on the damn toilet with very labored breathing
> >> all night, I was finally healed enough to get up, dressed, and I drove
> >> to a "minor emergency clinic." Very labored breathing even for that.
> >>
> >> As soon as they heard that I had no insurance, they treated me quite
> >> shabbily (imo). They didn't want me there and acted like I was some
> >> bum off the street after free medical care. I was told that the doctor
> >> was running a bit late and I should go to the emergency room.
> >
> > A clinic would not have told you to drive to the ER, they would have
> > called an ambulance.
> >
> Not if he was capable of driving.
>
> My neighbor went to an urgent care clinic last year. They quickly
> diagnosed her with an embolism/blood clot in her leg which could have
> traveled to her heart/lungs. She was perfectly rational and capable of
> driving a few miles further to hospital.

At any moment, the clot might have moved to her lung and caused her to
pass out at the wheel.

Janet Uk

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:51:22 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:45:29 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>
>> >Dave Smith wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I spend 4 days in ICU and another 3 nights in the hospital. I was billed
>> >> nothing for all that.
>> >
>> >My God. If that was in the USA, you would face a bill of (just
>> >guessing) over $20K.
>> >
>> >That night 7.5 years ago that I had severe asthma and was stuck
>> >sitting on the toilet all night - very labored breathing and even a 7
>> >step walk to the phone to call for help would have killed me. After
>> >spending about 8 hours on the damn toilet with very labored breathing
>> >all night, I was finally healed enough to get up, dressed, and I drove
>> >to a "minor emergency clinic." Very labored breathing even for that.
>> >
>> >As soon as they heard that I had no insurance, they treated me quite
>> >shabbily (imo). They didn't want me there and acted like I was some
>> >bum off the street after free medical care. I was told that the doctor
>> >was running a bit late and I should go to the emergency room.
>>
>> A clinic would not have told you to drive to the ER, they would have
>> called an ambulance.
>>
>> >I told
>> >them that I was doing ok just sitting there and waiting but to get up
>> >again would be a hardship. I'm not leaving.
>> >
>> >So then she told me, "You know, this could be expensive"
>> >I told her, "I've got money, I'll pay for this today"
>> >She still didn't seem convinced. Again, I was made to feel like some
>> >bum.
>> >
>> >So I finally got to see the doctor. They treated me there and I was
>> >good to go plus I got prescriptions. Funny how just 1/2 hour treatment
>> >in the doctors office fixed me when I really almost died of asthma
>> >attack
>>
>> That's why you need medication at home, you should have an Albuterol
>> Sulphate inhaler on you at all times, and a nebulizer at home... with
>> a neb treatment at home you'd be fine in ten minutes.
>>
>> >just hours earlier in the bathroom and then ferrets in cage
>> >would have died too, if I did.
>> >
>> >Doctor visit was $75 plus treatment...total $150. No big deal and I
>> >paid before I left.
>> >If I had gone to the hospital's emergency room for that, it would have
>> >cost way over $1000.
>>
>> Had you dialed 911 an ambulance would have arrived and the EMTs would
>> have treated you and/or brought you to the ER. If you had no
>> insurance they'd still have to treat you.
>> If you're an Asthmatic why didn't you have a rescue inhaler?
>> You really shouldn't have driven a car in your condition... don't you
>> have a neighor who could drive you in an emergency?
>> Why don't you have medical insurance, if you're over 55 you can get a
>> very inexpensive plan through AARP... it would cover your Asthma meds.
>> which aren't very expensive to begin with, the pharmaceutical
>> companies will supply meds for free too, and your primary care doctor
>> has samples, ask. With AARP insurance many of the basic Asthma meds
>> are free, no co-pay... it's a lot less expensive to give you a dollars
>> worth of meds for free than paying your hospital bills. Sitting on
>> the toilet all night struggling to breathe is a definite indication of
>> mental illness.
>
>Sheldon. You assumed way too much and failed with most of your
>guesses.
>Don't be a putz. It was the night from hell for me and all was true.
>I had prescription drugs and they quit working.

What Rx drugs, broncoldilators don't quit working, not unless way
beyond their expiration date. You probably don't even own a
nebulizer, if not then you are really not Asthmatic or whichever
doctor diagnosed you as an asthmatic would have prescribed a nebulizer
and the neb meds.

>The doctor gave me Prednizone,

Prednisone gives no immediate relief, takes 2-3 days to run a course
of prednisone before any meaningful results kick in... Prednisone is
NOT an emergency drug. For emergency the first thing the ER would do
is put you on a nebulizer with a broncoldilator and 02 instead of
plain air. Were you barely breathing and in serious distress they'd
have interbated you. Think what you want about me but I know a lot
more about respiratory illness than you. I think you were sitting on
the toilet for eight hours because you were full of shit, literally...
you'd have done better with Dulcalax.

>the extreme reaction fix. That's what
>fixed my problem, plus I got many free drugs and prescriptions for
>more.
>
>Sitting on the toilet all night, deep breathing was survival.
>Thankfully, I had a book with me.

Were you able to sit on a toilet all night, able to do deep breathing,
and simultaneously concentrate on reading then you had absolutely no
respiratory issue... most likely you were experiencing a psychotic
trauma whereby you imagined you couldn't breath... if you could do
deep breathing for eight hours straight you were having no shortness
of breath whatsoever... in fact you were breathing so well you ought
to seriously consider trying out for the navy seals. I doubt you know
what Asthma is. Asthma is the involuntary constriction of the
bronchial muscles whereby the airways become so constricted that it's
difficult for air to reach the lungs... the therapy is a brocodialator
that relaxes the bronchial muscles enough to open the airways. An
Asthmatic would be on a regamin of broncolilators to prevent or at
least limit exacerbations. What you describe is much more like a
spoiled child so in need of attention that they hold their breath
until they turn blue and begin gasping. Perhaps losing your pet was a
loss that triggered the same response you experienced with the loss of
your marriage. You don't seem to have a network of friends (the only
company you ever mentioned was a ferret) I don't think you are doing
well living alone. I seriously recommend you see a shrink. Good
luck.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:20:11 -0600, Janet B >
wrote:

>I guess I was lucky. I didn't have surgery to have it removed. I did
>have surgery to place a 'screen' before my heart to prevent the clot
>from getting to heart. I was treated with a blood thinner.
>Janet US

I saw one of those 'medical' ads on tv the other day, a law firm
asking you if you had one of those screens to contact them - maybe you
should check that out?