There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
restaurant for a while.

The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
guilty to a charge of careless driving.

What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run
accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
of the accident.

The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
lawsuit.

What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
crimes of DUI and the hit and run.

I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
smell.

I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.



To make matters worse,

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 17:58:16 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
>by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
>have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
>restaurant for a while.
>
>The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
>guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
>What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run
>accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
>not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
>thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
>serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
>took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
>next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
>arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
>of the accident.
>
>The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
>had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
>lawsuit.
>
>What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
>was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
>and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
>them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
>and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
>to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
>crimes of DUI and the hit and run.
>
>I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
>criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
>not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
>it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
>patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
>that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
>woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
>smell.
>
>I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.

I don't blame you for feeling that way.

>To make matters worse,

I await the rest...

On 2016-07-02 6:01 PM, Je�us wrote:
They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
> I don't blame you for feeling that way.
>
Thanks

>> To make matters worse,
>
> I await the rest...

Don't. It was below the part of the screen I thought was the message.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 17:58:16 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
>by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
>have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
>restaurant for a while.
>
>The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
>guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
>What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run
>accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
>not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
>thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
>serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
>took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
>next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
>arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
>of the accident.
>
>The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
>had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
>lawsuit.
>
>What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
>was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
>and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
>them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
>and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
>to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
>crimes of DUI and the hit and run.
>
>I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
>criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
>not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
>it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
>patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
>that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
>woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
>smell.
>
>I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
>
>
>To make matters worse,

Surely if he signed it over to his wife after the accident, it will
not be safe from having to pay ?

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 17:58:16 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
>by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
>have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
>restaurant for a while.
>
>The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
>guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
>What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run
>accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
>not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
>thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
>serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
>took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
>next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
>arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
>of the accident.
>
>The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
>had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
>lawsuit.
>
>What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
>was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
>and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
>them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
>and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
>to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
>crimes of DUI and the hit and run.
>
>I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
>criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
>not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
>it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
>patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
>that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
>woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
>smell.
>
>I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
>
>
>To make matters worse,

I think the judge in that case had a Broken Gavel.

Ross.

On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
> restaurant for a while.
>
> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>

> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
> smell.
>
> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
>
>
> To make matters worse,

So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.

If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
continue to patronize the restaurant.

On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
(snip)
>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>
> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>
> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
> continue to patronize the restaurant.
>
I wouldn't.
It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.

On 7/2/2016 7:52 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> (snip)
>>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>>
>> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
>> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
>> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
>> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>>
>> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
>> continue to patronize the restaurant.
>>
> I wouldn't.
> It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
> choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>

He made a serious mistake. That does not mean his morals are non
existent. You can be sure his lawyer advised him to put his share of
ownership in his wife's name.

You are probably supporting or patronizing or working with more people
that you know that have a law breaking past. Not my job to continue
punishing them if the state did so.

On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 5:57:08 PM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
> restaurant for a while.
>
> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
> What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run
> accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
> not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
> thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
> serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
> took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
> next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
> arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
> of the accident.
>
> The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
> had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
> lawsuit.
>
> What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
> was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
> and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
> them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
> and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
> to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
> crimes of DUI and the hit and run.
>
> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
> smell.
>
> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
>
>
> To make matters worse,

I would say, based on just the facts you've presented, Not going there is the "right thing" to do. But keep your ears and eyes open in case there's more to the story.

Despite the fact that I'm a VERY Liberal person, the potential involvement of alcohol seals the deal for me. There is no excuse for driving drunk.

Full disclosu yes, I used to drive drunk 80s, maybe 90s. Never again. There wasn't as much of a stigma, But the outcomes were no less tragic.

On 02/07/2016 6:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/2/2016 7:52 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> (snip)
>>>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>>>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>>>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>>>
>>> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
>>> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
>>> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
>>> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>>>
>>> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
>>> continue to patronize the restaurant.
>>>
>> I wouldn't.
>> It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>> choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>>
>
> He made a serious mistake.

A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
drunk and ran from the scene!
Graham

On 7/2/2016 8:44 PM, wrote:

>> To make matters worse,
>
> I would say, based on just the facts you've presented, Not going there is the "right thing" to do. But keep your ears and eyes open in case there's more to the story.
>

Why is it the right thing to do? It he a repeat offender?


> Despite the fact that I'm a VERY Liberal person, the potential involvement of alcohol seals the deal for me. There is no excuse for driving drunk.
>
> Full disclosu yes, I used to drive drunk 80s, maybe 90s. Never again. There wasn't as much of a stigma, But the outcomes were no less tragic.
>

Based on what you did in the 80's, should you be denied the ability to
earn a living? Should your business be closed, thus putting others out
of a job? Please explain how that is the "right thing to do"

Full disclosu In 1968 I drove 2 miles to home when drunk. Bad
hangover was enough that I never got drunk again.

Yes, he should be punished but others like him employees should not be.
No matter the outcome plenty of people will be negatively affected
though they did nothing.

Exceptions would be repeat offenders, child molesters and similar.

On 7/2/2016 8:57 PM, graham wrote:

> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
> drunk and ran from the scene!
> Graham
>

Maybe. He may have been so drunk he did not know. Recently a woman
drove home with a dead man stuck in her windshield.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/dui-sus...nt-windshield/

On 7/2/2016 9:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/2/2016 8:57 PM, graham wrote:
>
>> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
>> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
>> drunk and ran from the scene!
>> Graham
>>
>
> Maybe. He may have been so drunk he did not know. Recently a woman
> drove home with a dead man stuck in her windshield.
> http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/dui-sus...nt-windshield/
>
I have never considered being drunk as an excuse for stupid behaviour.
It's highly unlikely that the booze was poured into his mouth against
his will.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
>> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
>> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
>> restaurant for a while.
>>
>> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
>> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>>
>
>> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
>> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
>> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
>> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
>> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
>> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
>> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
>> smell.
>>
>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>
>>
>>
>> To make matters worse,
>
> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living is
> going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>
> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
> continue to patronize the restaurant.

The thing is... Stuff like this is happening all around us but we don't
necessarily know who these people are. Yeah, we might hear about some
accident on the news or on Facebook or whatever. But we might not connect
the person to the business.

My parents were friends with restaurant owners. They divorced. Although my
parents loved the restaurant, they felt they could not go there because it
would be like showing favoritism to the person who wound up with the place
in the divorce settlement. And as it turned out, they ended up sort of not
being friends with either person any more for that reason as well.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 21:48:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>Maybe. He may have been so drunk he did not know. Recently a woman
>drove home with a dead man stuck in her windshield.
>http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/dui-sus...nt-windshield/

Maybe she merely wanted to pick him up and take him home for a quickie
after not scoring during her night out.

On 7/2/2016 10:07 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>


> The thing is... Stuff like this is happening all around us but we don't
> necessarily know who these people are. Yeah, we might hear about some
> accident on the news or on Facebook or whatever. But we might not
> connect the person to the business.

Sadly there is a lot of it. often starts even before drinking age.
Some never learn and repeat often. Others do.

We have an employee that killed a girl driving drunk. He spent a couple
of years in jail and probation for more. He no longer drives. He works
for us full time and a couple of years ago took a second job so he could
put two daughters through college. His past mistake aside, he has been
a model citizen. If he was denied a living, other people would have
suffered more than they did.

>
> My parents were friends with restaurant owners. They divorced. Although
> my parents loved the restaurant, they felt they could not go there
> because it would be like showing favoritism to the person who wound up
> with the place in the divorce settlement. And as it turned out, they
> ended up sort of not being friends with either person any more for that
> reason as well.

Divorce can make awkward situations. It is also common to like one
spouse more than the other. Real friends can still remain friends.
Evidently these were more in the acquaintance category.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:57:08 -0600, graham > wrote:

> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
> drunk and ran from the scene!

He also went to jail and served his time.

--

sf

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/2/2016 9:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 8:57 PM, graham wrote:
>>
>>> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
>>> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
>>> drunk and ran from the scene!
>>> Graham
>>>
>>
>> Maybe. He may have been so drunk he did not know. Recently a woman
>> drove home with a dead man stuck in her windshield.
>> http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/dui-sus...nt-windshield/
>>
> I have never considered being drunk as an excuse for stupid behaviour.
> It's highly unlikely that the booze was poured into his mouth against his
> will.

Everyone has an excuse for bad/stupid behavior these days it seems.

Cheri

On 7/2/2016 10:15 PM, Je�us wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 21:48:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> Maybe. He may have been so drunk he did not know. Recently a woman
>> drove home with a dead man stuck in her windshield.
>> http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/dui-sus...nt-windshield/
>
> Maybe she merely wanted to pick him up and take him home for a quickie
> after not scoring during her night out.
>
ba da bing

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

On 7/2/2016 8:44 PM, wrote:
> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 5:57:08 PM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
>> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
>> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
>> restaurant for a while.
>>
>> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
>> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>>
>> What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run
>> accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
>> not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
>> thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
>> serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
>> took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
>> next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
>> arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
>> of the accident.
>>
>> The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
>> had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
>> lawsuit.
>>
>> What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
>> was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
>> and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
>> them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
>> and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
>> to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
>> crimes of DUI and the hit and run.
>>
>> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
>> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
>> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
>> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
>> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
>> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
>> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
>> smell.
>>
>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>
>>
>>
>> To make matters worse,
>
> I would say, based on just the facts you've presented, Not going there is the "right thing" to do. But keep your ears and eyes open in case there's more to the story.
>
> Despite the fact that I'm a VERY Liberal person, the potential involvement of alcohol seals the deal for me. There is no excuse for driving drunk.
>
> Full disclosu yes, I used to drive drunk 80s, maybe 90s. Never again. There wasn't as much of a stigma, But the outcomes were no less tragic.
>
Agree with everything you just said. I might drink too much sometimes
along with the pills, but I will never get behind the wheel when I do no
matter what.

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/2/2016 9:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 8:57 PM, graham wrote:
>>
>>> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
>>> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
>>> drunk and ran from the scene!
>>> Graham
>>>
>>
>> Maybe. He may have been so drunk he did not know. Recently a woman
>> drove home with a dead man stuck in her windshield.
>> http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/dui-sus...nt-windshield/
>>
> I have never considered being drunk as an excuse for stupid behaviour.
> It's highly unlikely that the booze was poured into his mouth against his
> will.

It's not an excuse.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/2/2016 10:07 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>
>
>> The thing is... Stuff like this is happening all around us but we don't
>> necessarily know who these people are. Yeah, we might hear about some
>> accident on the news or on Facebook or whatever. But we might not
>> connect the person to the business.
>
> Sadly there is a lot of it. often starts even before drinking age. Some
> never learn and repeat often. Others do.
>
> We have an employee that killed a girl driving drunk. He spent a couple
> of years in jail and probation for more. He no longer drives. He works
> for us full time and a couple of years ago took a second job so he could
> put two daughters through college. His past mistake aside, he has been a
> model citizen. If he was denied a living, other people would have
> suffered more than they did.
>
>>
>> My parents were friends with restaurant owners. They divorced. Although
>> my parents loved the restaurant, they felt they could not go there
>> because it would be like showing favoritism to the person who wound up
>> with the place in the divorce settlement. And as it turned out, they
>> ended up sort of not being friends with either person any more for that
>> reason as well.
>
> Divorce can make awkward situations. It is also common to like one spouse
> more than the other. Real friends can still remain friends. Evidently
> these were more in the acquaintance category.

Quite likely. My brother and I tried to have a 50th anniversary party for
them but they said not to bother as they really had no friends. The people
they had considered friends over the years were restaurant owners, wait
staff, Drs. dentists, people like that. Although I can be friendly with
those people, I don't consider them to be my friends.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 19:52:35 -0400, S Viemeister
> wrote:

>On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>(snip)
>>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>>
>> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
>> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
>> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
>> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>>
>> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
>> continue to patronize the restaurant.
>>
>I wouldn't.
>It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.

Ditto

wrote:
>
> S Viemeister wrote:
> >I wouldn't.
> >It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
> >choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.

>
> Ditto

I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
year in jail for "careless driving?"

Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.

No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 08:13:20 -0400, Gary > wrote:

wrote:
>>
>> S Viemeister wrote:
>> >I wouldn't.
>> >It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>> >choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>
>>
>> Ditto
>
>I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
>them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
>the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
>that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
>year in jail for "careless driving?"
>
>Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
>would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
>could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
>him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.
>
>No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.

For the rest of his life he should have to support the girl whose real
time life was taken away so brutally and senselessly. Might as well
let him out to do that than tax payers support him and gain nothing
for her. He can't argue he didn't know, he left them lying there.
Coward amongst other things.

On 7/3/2016 8:13 AM, Gary wrote:
> wrote:
>>
>> S Viemeister wrote:
>>> I wouldn't.
>>> It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>>> choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>
>>
>> Ditto
>
> I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
> them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
> the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
> that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
> year in jail for "careless driving?"
>
> Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
> would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
> could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
> him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.
>
> No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.

I really don't think the food would taste as good to me, knowing
this story. Like finding out that gorgeous guy is a horrible
person, he loses his attraction. I wouldn't eat there.

nancy

On 2016-07-03 8:13 AM, Gary wrote:
> wrote:
>>
>> S Viemeister wrote:

> I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
> them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
> the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
> that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
> year in jail for "careless driving?"

The story was that he went home and had a few drinks. Since he left the
scene of the accident and was not given a road site test, there is no
evidence that he was driving drunk. He most definitely spent a few
hours drinking at a bar in town. Careless driving is a criminal code
offense, unlike careless driving.

> Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
> would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
> could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
> him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.

When I heard that he had got rid of his share of the restaurant I
thought perhaps he no longer had anything to do with it. Then it seemed
that he was hoping to save it from the inevitable law suit. Later on I
was told that she was with him when it happened. so that makes her just
as bad as him.


> No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.

I will if someone unconnected to the family buys it.

On 2016-07-02 7:22 PM, wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 17:58:16 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:

>> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
>> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
>> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
>> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
>> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
>> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
>> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
>> smell.
>>
>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.

>
> I think the judge in that case had a Broken Gavel.
>

Bingo.

wrote:
>
> On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 08:13:20 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> S Viemeister wrote:
> >> >I wouldn't.
> >> >It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
> >> >choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
> >
> >>
> >> Ditto
> >
> >I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
> >them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
> >the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
> >that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
> >year in jail for "careless driving?"
> >
> >Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
> >would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
> >could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
> >him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.
> >
> >No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.
>
> For the rest of his life he should have to support the girl whose real
> time life was taken away so brutally and senselessly. Might as well
> let him out to do that than tax payers support him and gain nothing
> for her. He can't argue he didn't know, he left them lying there.
> Coward amongst other things.

I do suspect that he won't have an easy year in prison. Once word gets
out what he did and how he only got a handslap, many prisoners with kids
will make it very hard time for him. Even better would be...while he's
in prison, constantly getting raped and beat up, wife runs off with his
best friend and all the money he transfered to her. LOL... That would be
better justice. Even better justice would be to charge the wife too as
she was right with him.

And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
should pay them forever for that.

I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
daughter that got her life ruined.

On 7/3/2016 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:

>
> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
> should pay them forever for that.
>
> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
> daughter that got her life ruined.
>

I can't say for sure what I would do as it was not my daughter. I do
know that I don't want to see his business closed and his employees out
of a job. What good comes from that? Would it make YOU feel better?

Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.

On 2016-07-02 8:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/2/2016 7:52 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> (snip)
>>>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>>>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>>>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>>>
>>> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
>>> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
>>> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
>>> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>>>
>>> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
>>> continue to patronize the restaurant.


I am not judge and jury. He had his day in court. If had been the judge
and jury he would have been sentenced to a lot more.

>>>
>> I wouldn't.
>> It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>> choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.


That is the way I see it. The justice system has let the guy off easy,
but he isn't going to make any money off me.


> He made a serious mistake. That does not mean his morals are non
> existent. You can be sure his lawyer advised him to put his share of
> ownership in his wife's name.
>
> You are probably supporting or patronizing or working with more people
> that you know that have a law breaking past. Not my job to continue
> punishing them if the state did so.

That is part of the problem with having a criminal record. It can
affect you for the rest of your life. I don't like doing business with
sleazy people. I think that what this guy did is reprehensible. First
of all, he was driving drunk. He hit two people and left them for dead.
Then he scooted home and drank more so that they could not prove he was
drunk at the time of the accident. Then they pulled the ownership
switcheroo which may try to hide the assets from the inevitable lawsuit.

At this point, IMO, there is no argument that he has paid his debt. He
fled to avoid the consequences of his DUI. He copped a plea for a light
sentence. He has done nothing to redeem himself in my eyes. He have
have good food and good prices, but we will not be getting any business
from me.

On 2016-07-03 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:
> wrote:

> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
> should pay them forever for that.

It is a year in jail, not prison. It won't even be a year. It will be
more like 6 months.

> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
> daughter that got her life ruined.

The victim is a member of our community and it is a small town. The
family are friends of friends. I wonder how some people would feel if
the guy had been convicted of a violent, racially motivated crime, or a
sexual assault on a child. I would not hire someone to work in my house
if the had criminal records for theft or violence. The courts are
removed from the situation but people in the community have to deal
with their attitudes.

On 2016-07-03 11:28 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/3/2016 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:
>
>>
>> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
>> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
>> should pay them forever for that.
>>
>> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
>> daughter that got her life ruined.
>>
>
> I can't say for sure what I would do as it was not my daughter. I do
> know that I don't want to see his business closed and his employees out
> of a job. What good comes from that? Would it make YOU feel better?


They could sell the business.



> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.

It's restaurant work. Most people do not last long at them. It's is not
as if a restaurant's failure is going to ruin their waiting career.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> On 7/3/2016 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:
>
> >
> > And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
> > and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
> > should pay them forever for that.
> >
> > I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
> > daughter that got her life ruined.
> >
>
> I can't say for sure what I would do as it was not my daughter. I do
> know that I don't want to see his business closed and his employees out
> of a job. What good comes from that? Would it make YOU feel better?
>
> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.

The cook, waitress, dishwasher will move on to another job. That happens
often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
brain damage can't move on. Think about her.

On 7/3/2016 11:50 AM, Gary wrote:

>>
>> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
>> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
>> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
>> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
>
> The cook, waitress, dishwasher will move on to another job. That happens
> often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
> the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
> brain damage can't move on. Think about her.
>

Restaurant staff, burger flippers, house painters, truck drivers. Dime
a dozen careers no sense worrying about them. They can easuly find work.

On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 12:21:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 7/3/2016 11:50 AM, Gary wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
>>> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
>>> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
>>> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
>>
>> The cook, waitress, dishwasher will move on to another job. That happens
>> often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
>> the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
>> brain damage can't move on. Think about her.
>>
>
>Restaurant staff, burger flippers, house painters, truck drivers. Dime
>a dozen careers no sense worrying about them. They can easuly find work.

As compared to what her life will be like, yes, they can.

I've never driven drunk but I have ridden with drunk drivers which was stupid.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/3/2016 11:50 AM, Gary wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
>>> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
>>> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
>>> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
>>
>> The cook, waitress, dishwasher will move on to another job. That happens
>> often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
>> the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
>> brain damage can't move on. Think about her.
>>
>
> Restaurant staff, burger flippers, house painters, truck drivers. Dime a
> dozen careers no sense worrying about them. They can easuly find work.

What do house painters have to do with the restaurant? Or is that just to
upset Gary?



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
> restaurant for a while.
>
> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
> What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run accident.
> He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was not too
> seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was thrown
> more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a serious brain
> injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he took off and left
> them for dead. The police tracked down his car the next morning and
> arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they arrested him, but
> they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time of the accident.
>
> The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
> had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
> lawsuit.
>
> What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
> was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
> and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
> them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
> and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
> to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the crimes
> of DUI and the hit and run.
>
> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and it
> is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to patronize a
> place that is owned by people who would do something like that. They
> ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the woman's
> family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad smell.
>
> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go there.
> Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.


Then don't. FWIW every restaurant owner I have worked for in my youth was
a drug addled, drunk, miserable SOB on their third marriage who if they were
not stealing tips they were boffing the waitresses in the bathroom while
their wives worked the kitchen.

Go find another place to eat.



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"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
>> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
>> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
>> restaurant for a while.
>>
>> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
>> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>>
>
>> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
>> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
>> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
>> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
>> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
>> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
>> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
>> smell.
>>
>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>
>>
>>
>> To make matters worse,
>
> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living is
> going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>
> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
> continue to patronize the restaurant.


Just being a business owner is not an entitlement. Nobody owes him
business. if I got wind he kicked his dog my business would end at that
instant.




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