I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of flour
like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and sauce. No
need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.

And yes, I know that I don't need it. I did without it for most of my life,
having only discovered it in the past 10 or so years after watching my mom
use it. I just like it and would like something like it but I don't want to
buy Gold Medal any more. Thanks!

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
>> flour
>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and sauce. No
>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>
> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
> eventually just throw it away.

Yes it is cooked.

http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/

Says it is essentially cooked already.

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
> >>
> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
> >>> flour
> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and sauce. No
> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
> >>
> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
> >> eventually just throw it away.
> >
> > Yes it is cooked.
> >
> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
> >
> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
>
> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
>
> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
> recalled.
>
> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.

"Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...

Isaac

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
>>>> flour
>>>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and sauce.
>>>> No
>>>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>>>
>>> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>>> eventually just throw it away.
>>
>> Yes it is cooked.
>>
>> http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>>
>> Says it is essentially cooked already.
>
> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
>
> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
> recalled.
>
> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>
> -sw

I made gravy all the time without it but it is a heck of a lot easier.

And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There was
that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.

"isw" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
>> >>> flour
>> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and
>> >>> sauce. No
>> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>> >>
>> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>> >> eventually just throw it away.
>> >
>> > Yes it is cooked.
>> >
>> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>> >
>> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
>>
>> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
>> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
>> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
>> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
>>
>> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
>> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
>> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
>> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
>> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
>> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
>> recalled.
>>
>> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
>> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>
> "Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
> just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...

Very handy and I dislike using cornstarch for stuff like this. Why? It tends
to break down upon reheating.

"Cheryl" > wrote in message
web.com...
> "Julie Bove" > Wrote in message:
>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
>> flour
>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and sauce. No
>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>>
>> And yes, I know that I don't need it. I did without it for most of my
>> life,
>> having only discovered it in the past 10 or so years after watching my
>> mom
>> use it. I just like it and would like something like it but I don't want
>> to
>> buy Gold Medal any more. Thanks!
>>
>>
>
> Julie I wish that you wouldn't feel the need to defend your questions here
> before you even get any replies. You've done that the last several of your
> OPs. I know you get ragged on but don't let it color your questions. You
> already know the haters are going to hate no matter what so why not just
> post without sounding all defensive? I'd rather read your posts as just
> being a regular in the group which you are.

Sorry. I just feel like I don't do that, they will start dog piling me. And
I do think that sw is wrong about the acid in the flour. I first heard of it
being cooked when Claudine Pepin mentioned the cooked part when she and her
dad were cooking on his show. Asked him if that type of flour could be used
in the particular recipe. He said it could. I actually used it to flour the
Bundt cake pan and it worked for that too. I only have a small amount of
Wondra that will expire in a few months. It was old enough to not have been
in that recall. And I realized as I was dumping out the bag of Gold Medal
that it too was not in the recall either. But it was about to expire so no
problems there. At any rate, I didn't want to open the new bag of flour I
just bought just to flour the pan. I can see now that regular flour might
have worked better. I did have to dust the cake off. But... Somebody ate
quite a lot of it so I guess it is still good.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 00:34:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
>>>>> flour
>>>>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and sauce.
>>>>> No
>>>>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>>>>
>>>> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>>>> eventually just throw it away.
>>>
>>> Yes it is cooked.
>>>
>>> http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>>>
>>> Says it is essentially cooked already.
>>
>> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
>> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
>> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
>> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
>>
>> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
>> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
>> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
>> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
>> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
>> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
>> recalled.
>>
>> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
>> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>>
>> -sw
>
>I made gravy all the time without it but it is a heck of a lot easier.

How about Veloutine? You just sprinkle it on your liquid and stir.

>And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There was
>that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.

The burgers at JITB weren't cooked through. That's how the e-coli
survived. That is why it is recommended that you always eat burgers
well done.

Doris

What happens if you use AP flour after it "expires?" I never pay any attention
to those kinds of dates on pantry staples, for the most part.

N.

Nancy2 wrote:
>
> What happens if you use AP flour after it "expires?"

Nothing happens as long as it stays dry. I buy ap flour and pour it into
a tupperware canister and toss out the wrapper. I've never once thought
about it getting too old. My flour now is old but I have no idea how old
nor do I care. It works fine. I *think* I buy new about once per year.
Just a guess. If longer, no worries.

On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 23:34:23 -0700, isw > wrote:

>In article >,
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
>> >>> flour
>> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and sauce. No
>> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>> >>
>> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>> >> eventually just throw it away.
>> >
>> > Yes it is cooked.
>> >
>> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>> >
>> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
>>
>> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
>> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
>> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
>> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
>>
>> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
>> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
>> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
>> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
>> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
>> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
>> recalled.
>>
>> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
>> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>
>"Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
>just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...
>
>Isaac

did you know that you can mix a paste of soft butter and flour and put
that into the sauce to thicken it? The paste easily blends into the
sauce and will not lump.
Janet US

On 7/5/2016 8:39 AM, Gary wrote:
> Nancy2 wrote:
>>
>> What happens if you use AP flour after it "expires?"
>
> Nothing happens as long as it stays dry. I buy ap flour and pour it into
> a tupperware canister and toss out the wrapper. I've never once thought
> about it getting too old. My flour now is old but I have no idea how old
> nor do I care. It works fine. I *think* I buy new about once per year.
> Just a guess. If longer, no worries.
>
I don't use a lot of flour so I don't buy a large bag of it. I've never
thought about it "expiring".

Jill

On 7/5/2016 9:04 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 7/5/2016 8:39 AM, Gary wrote:
>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>>
>>> What happens if you use AP flour after it "expires?"
>>
>> Nothing happens as long as it stays dry. I buy ap flour and pour it into
>> a tupperware canister and toss out the wrapper. I've never once thought
>> about it getting too old. My flour now is old but I have no idea how old
>> nor do I care. It works fine. I *think* I buy new about once per year.
>> Just a guess. If longer, no worries.
>>
> I don't use a lot of flour so I don't buy a large bag of it. I've never
> thought about it "expiring".
>
> Jill
Not so much expiring but flours do have Best Before dates. I checked my
AP bag and it is BB is next Sunday! That doesn't bother me! I've just
bought a 20kg sack of bread flour and the BB date is next May.
However, it is important to take note of the BB date on wholemeal flours
as they go rancid under normal conditions. I store those flours in the
freezer.
Graham

On 7/5/2016 8:21 AM, graham wrote:
> On 7/5/2016 9:04 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 7/5/2016 8:39 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What happens if you use AP flour after it "expires?"
>>>
>>> Nothing happens as long as it stays dry. I buy ap flour and pour it into
>>> a tupperware canister and toss out the wrapper. I've never once thought
>>> about it getting too old. My flour now is old but I have no idea how old
>>> nor do I care. It works fine. I *think* I buy new about once per year.
>>> Just a guess. If longer, no worries.
>>>
>> I don't use a lot of flour so I don't buy a large bag of it. I've never
>> thought about it "expiring".
>>
>> Jill
> Not so much expiring but flours do have Best Before dates. I checked my
> AP bag and it is BB is next Sunday! That doesn't bother me! I've just
> bought a 20kg sack of bread flour and the BB date is next May.
> However, it is important to take note of the BB date on wholemeal flours
> as they go rancid under normal conditions. I store those flours in the
> freezer.
> Graham

even regular flour goes "off" after a LONG time. I had some that was
probably 10 years old, and it tasted like cardboard.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 09:21:33 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 7/5/2016 9:04 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 7/5/2016 8:39 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What happens if you use AP flour after it "expires?"
>>>
>>> Nothing happens as long as it stays dry. I buy ap flour and pour it into
>>> a tupperware canister and toss out the wrapper. I've never once thought
>>> about it getting too old. My flour now is old but I have no idea how old
>>> nor do I care. It works fine. I *think* I buy new about once per year.
>>> Just a guess. If longer, no worries.
>>>
>> I don't use a lot of flour so I don't buy a large bag of it. I've never
>> thought about it "expiring".
>>
>> Jill
>Not so much expiring but flours do have Best Before dates. I checked my
>AP bag and it is BB is next Sunday! That doesn't bother me! I've just
>bought a 20kg sack of bread flour and the BB date is next May.
>However, it is important to take note of the BB date on wholemeal flours
>as they go rancid under normal conditions. I store those flours in the
>freezer.
>Graham

I read somewhere a long time ago, that stored properly, white flour is
good for 2 years. I was reading in one of the dedicated artisan bread
books at the time, so I've always applied that to my bread making
flour. (I do think the dough gets a little wimpy when the flour is
more than 2) I've never worried much about the flour that I use for
other things, except whole wheat flour, as you say, has a short life
if left unfrozen.
Janet US

On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 08:13:12 -0600, Janet B >
wrote:

> On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 23:34:23 -0700, isw > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Sqwertz > wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
> >> >>> flour
> >> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and sauce. No
> >> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
> >> >>
> >> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
> >> >> eventually just throw it away.
> >> >
> >> > Yes it is cooked.
> >> >
> >> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
> >> >
> >> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
> >>
> >> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
> >> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
> >> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
> >> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
> >>
> >> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
> >> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
> >> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
> >> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
> >> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
> >> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
> >> recalled.
> >>
> >> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
> >> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
> >> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
> >
> >"Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
> >just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...
> >
> >Isaac
>
> did you know that you can mix a paste of soft butter and flour and put
> that into the sauce to thicken it? The paste easily blends into the
> sauce and will not lump.
> Janet US

Just shake up some flour with a little water (in a covered container)
for a lump free slurry, no need for butter.

--

sf

On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 11:21:18 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 00:34:45 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There was
>> that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.
>
>I specifically said that certain temperatures needed to be achieved.
>E-coli is killed at very specific temperatures for very specific
>lengths of time. 160F is considered the safe temperature to cook
>hamburger and other meats, but JitB was not doing that. If the USDA
>says 160F for hamburgers, what do you think would happen to e-coli in
>flour steamed at 200-212F?
>
>Wondra flour may have been steamed back in the 60's and 70's and
>General Mills still wants people to think that, but not now.
>Virtually all the mass produced modified food starches are now made by
>acid, alkaline, or enzymatic treatments.
>
>-sw

can't e. coli can be re-introduced into properly cooked foods by
hands, machinery, etc.?
Janet US

On 7/5/2016 11:21 AM, graham wrote:
> On 7/5/2016 9:04 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 7/5/2016 8:39 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What happens if you use AP flour after it "expires?"
>>>
>>> Nothing happens as long as it stays dry. I buy ap flour and pour it into
>>> a tupperware canister and toss out the wrapper. I've never once thought
>>> about it getting too old. My flour now is old but I have no idea how old
>>> nor do I care. It works fine. I *think* I buy new about once per year.
>>> Just a guess. If longer, no worries.
>>>
>> I don't use a lot of flour so I don't buy a large bag of it. I've never
>> thought about it "expiring".
>>
>> Jill
> Not so much expiring but flours do have Best Before dates. I checked my
> AP bag and it is BB is next Sunday! That doesn't bother me! I've just
> bought a 20kg sack of bread flour and the BB date is next May.
> However, it is important to take note of the BB date on wholemeal flours
> as they go rancid under normal conditions. I store those flours in the
> freezer.
> Graham

I don't bake bread (anymore) but I do store flour and cornmeal in the
freezer. That's just to keep it away from bugs.

Jill

On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 09:21:33 -0600, graham > wrote:

> Not so much expiring but flours do have Best Before dates. I checked my
> AP bag and it is BB is next Sunday! That doesn't bother me! I've just
> bought a 20kg sack of bread flour and the BB date is next May.
> However, it is important to take note of the BB date on wholemeal flours
> as they go rancid under normal conditions. I store those flours in the
> freezer.

I don't like to bake with whole wheat, so that isn't an issue - but I
have noticed that organic flour sprouts bugs after a while. Freezing
would solve the problem, but I don't have the freezer capacity for
that.

--

sf

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message

>> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
>> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>>
>> -sw
>
> I made gravy all the time without it but it is a heck of a lot easier.
>
> And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There was
> that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.

Gee, he decides what you do and don't need, typical king of the internet
wannabe.

Cheri

I do know self-rising flour gets ineffective so I keep it in the freezer.
I wish they sold it in smaller pkg. than 5 lbs.

N.

On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 11:45:28 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>
> I do store flour and cornmeal in the
> freezer. That's just to keep it away from bugs.
>
> Jill
>
>
I store my cornmeal in the freezer and only buy the
small 2 pound sacks of flour when needed as I'm not
a baker.

On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 12:26:29 PM UTC-5, Nancy2 wrote:
>
> I do know self-rising flour gets ineffective so I keep it in the freezer.
> I wish they sold it in smaller pkg. than 5 lbs.
>
> N.
>
>
Well that's a pain! Here I can get 2 pound sacks of self-
rising or all purpose flour. I don't know about whole
wheat flour though, never pay any attention to what size it
comes in.

"Doris Night" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 00:34:45 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
>>>>>> flour
>>>>>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and
>>>>>> sauce.
>>>>>> No
>>>>>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>>>>> eventually just throw it away.
>>>>
>>>> Yes it is cooked.
>>>>
>>>> http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>>>>
>>>> Says it is essentially cooked already.
>>>
>>> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
>>> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
>>> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
>>> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
>>>
>>> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
>>> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
>>> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
>>> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
>>> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
>>> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
>>> recalled.
>>>
>>> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>>> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
>>> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>>>
>>> -sw
>>
>>I made gravy all the time without it but it is a heck of a lot easier.
>
> How about Veloutine? You just sprinkle it on your liquid and stir.

I had to look it up as I had never heard of it. It's a Knorr product and
they put all sorts of crap in their food that I don't eat. Ingredients a
POTATO STARCH, LACTOSE, MALTODEXTRIN, RICE FLOUR, CARAMEL, MONOGLYCERIDE.

So that's a no go for me., Two things I can't eat. Sorry.

>>And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There was
>>that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.
>
> The burgers at JITB weren't cooked through. That's how the e-coli
> survived. That is why it is recommended that you always eat burgers
> well done.

I know but he was saying the flour couldn't be cooked because it had e-coli.
The mere fact that something has been cooked means nothing when it comes to
food poisoning.

"Janet B" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 23:34:23 -0700, isw > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand of
>>> >>> flour
>>> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and
>>> >>> sauce. No
>>> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>>> >>
>>> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>>> >> eventually just throw it away.
>>> >
>>> > Yes it is cooked.
>>> >
>>> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>>> >
>>> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
>>>
>>> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
>>> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
>>> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
>>> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
>>>
>>> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
>>> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
>>> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
>>> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
>>> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
>>> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
>>> recalled.
>>>
>>> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>>> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
>>> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>>
>>"Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
>>just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...
>>
>>Isaac
>
> did you know that you can mix a paste of soft butter and flour and put
> that into the sauce to thicken it? The paste easily blends into the
> sauce and will not lump.
> Janet US

Sure I do. And then what? Wait for the butter to kick in and send me flying
to the bathroom in agony? I can't eat butter. And did you notice the fact
that I said that you don't need to make a slurry with the Wondra? You do
know what a slurry is...right?

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 08:13:12 -0600, Janet B >
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 23:34:23 -0700, isw > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >,
>> > Sqwertz > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> >> > ...
>> >> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another brand
>> >> >>> of
>> >> >>> flour
>> >> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and
>> >> >>> sauce. No
>> >> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>> >> >> eventually just throw it away.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes it is cooked.
>> >> >
>> >> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>> >> >
>> >> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
>> >>
>> >> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
>> >> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
>> >> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
>> >> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
>> >>
>> >> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
>> >> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
>> >> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
>> >> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
>> >> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
>> >> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
>> >> recalled.
>> >>
>> >> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>> >> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
>> >> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>> >
>> >"Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
>> >just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...
>> >
>> >Isaac
>>
>> did you know that you can mix a paste of soft butter and flour and put
>> that into the sauce to thicken it? The paste easily blends into the
>> sauce and will not lump.
>> Janet US
>
> Just shake up some flour with a little water (in a covered container)
> for a lump free slurry, no need for butter.

But with the Wondra, you don't need the slurry.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 00:34:45 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There was
>> that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.
>
> I specifically said that certain temperatures needed to be achieved.
> E-coli is killed at very specific temperatures for very specific
> lengths of time. 160F is considered the safe temperature to cook
> hamburger and other meats, but JitB was not doing that. If the USDA
> says 160F for hamburgers, what do you think would happen to e-coli in
> flour steamed at 200-212F?
>
> Wondra flour may have been steamed back in the 60's and 70's and
> General Mills still wants people to think that, but not now.
> Virtually all the mass produced modified food starches are now made by
> acid, alkaline, or enzymatic treatments.
>
> -sw

It's not a modified food starch. It's a flour.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:33:11 -0600, Janet B wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 11:21:18 -0500, Sqwertz >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 00:34:45 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>>> And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There
>>>> was
>>>> that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.
>>>
>>>I specifically said that certain temperatures needed to be achieved.
>>>E-coli is killed at very specific temperatures for very specific
>>>lengths of time. 160F is considered the safe temperature to cook
>>>hamburger and other meats, but JitB was not doing that. If the USDA
>>>says 160F for hamburgers, what do you think would happen to e-coli in
>>>flour steamed at 200-212F?
>>>
>>>Wondra flour may have been steamed back in the 60's and 70's and
>>>General Mills still wants people to think that, but not now.
>>>Virtually all the mass produced modified food starches are now made by
>>>acid, alkaline, or enzymatic treatments.
>>
>> can't e. coli can be re-introduced into properly cooked foods by
>> hands, machinery, etc.?
>
> Sure. Anything can happen. Wondra would have a different packaging
> line for the canisters and bags-in-boxes. Wondra probably shares the
> same treatment apparatus used for bleaching their flour - which is
> treated with chlorine gas and benzoyl peroxide - yum!
>
> It's interesting to note that Wondra has been pulled from all web
> sites like Amazon and Walmart. You can find some old links to the
> product descriptions, but it's all been removed from their own search
> indexes. Not just out of stock ... but gone! It wouldn't surprise me
> that we've seen the last of Wondra.

I bought a bag of flour at QFC. There was a lady frantically pulling flour
from the shelves. The shelves were mostly empty but I did see Wondra.
Apparently I bought some from Amazon Fresh because they sent me a recall
notice. I bought whatever store brand flour QFC sells. Not sure who makes
it. Gold Medal makes Signature Kitchens and that's a Safeway brand so it
should be okay.

"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>
>>> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>>> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
>>> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>>>
>>> -sw
>>
>> I made gravy all the time without it but it is a heck of a lot easier.
>>
>> And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There was
>> that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.
>
> Gee, he decides what you do and don't need, typical king of the internet
> wannabe.
>
> Cheri

And he dissed my burgers. Big old meanie bobeanie! This could be him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCNF3wPgqFc

On 7/5/2016 6:27 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 08:13:12 -0600, Janet B >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 23:34:23 -0700, isw > wrote:
>>>
>>> >In article >,
>>> > Sqwertz > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>> >> > ...
>>> >> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another
>>> brand >> >>> of
>>> >> >>> flour
>>> >> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy
>>> and >> >>> sauce. No
>>> >> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>>> >> >> eventually just throw it away.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Yes it is cooked.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
>>> >>
>>> >> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
>>> >> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
>>> >> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
>>> >> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has
>>> learned).
>>> >>
>>> >> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
>>> >> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
>>> >> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well
>>> before
>>> >> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
>>> >> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
>>> >> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
>>> >> recalled.
>>> >>
>>> >> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>>> >> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make
>>> fine
>>> >> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>>> >
>>> >"Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
>>> >just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...
>>> >
>>> >Isaac
>>>
>>> did you know that you can mix a paste of soft butter and flour and put
>>> that into the sauce to thicken it? The paste easily blends into the
>>> sauce and will not lump.
>>> Janet US
>>
>> Just shake up some flour with a little water (in a covered container)
>> for a lump free slurry, no need for butter.
>
> But with the Wondra, you don't need the slurry.

God forbid you should have to shake some flour with water to make a slurry.

Jill

On 7/5/2016 3:49 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 15:28:40 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 00:34:45 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>>> And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There was
>>>> that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.
>>>
>>> I specifically said that certain temperatures needed to be achieved.
>>> E-coli is killed at very specific temperatures for very specific
>>> lengths of time. 160F is considered the safe temperature to cook
>>> hamburger and other meats, but JitB was not doing that. If the USDA
>>> says 160F for hamburgers, what do you think would happen to e-coli in
>>> flour steamed at 200-212F?
>>>
>>> Wondra flour may have been steamed back in the 60's and 70's and
>>> General Mills still wants people to think that, but not now.
>>> Virtually all the mass produced modified food starches are now made by
>>> acid, alkaline, or enzymatic treatments.
>>
>> It's not a modified food starch. It's a flour.
>
> And get this - flour is a starch. Duh. Wondra is a pre-gelatinized
> (modified) wheat starch. It's 70+% starch.
>
> I think your whole purpose here is to waste other people's time under
> the guise of cooking "conversation".
>
> -sw
>

You and the other foolish responders have only yourselves to blame.
Won't you ever learn?

On 7/5/2016 6:26 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Janet B" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 23:34:23 -0700, isw > wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>>> > ...
>>>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another
>>>> brand of
>>>> >>> flour
>>>> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and
>>>> >>> sauce. No
>>>> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>>>> >> eventually just throw it away.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes it is cooked.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>>>> >
>>>> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
>>>>
>>>> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
>>>> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
>>>> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
>>>> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
>>>>
>>>> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
>>>> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
>>>> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
>>>> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
>>>> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
>>>> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
>>>> recalled.
>>>>
>>>> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>>>> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
>>>> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>>>
>>> "Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
>>> just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...
>>>
>>> Isaac
>>
>> did you know that you can mix a paste of soft butter and flour and put
>> that into the sauce to thicken it? The paste easily blends into the
>> sauce and will not lump.
>> Janet US
>
> Sure I do. And then what? Wait for the butter to kick in and send me
> flying to the bathroom in agony? I can't eat butter. And did you notice
> the fact that I said that you don't need to make a slurry with the
> Wondra? You do know what a slurry is...right?
>
>
We do know what a slurry is. It is apparently something too darn
difficult for you do to. Don't ask for suggestions then shoot them
down. Sorry you cannot eat butter but most people can't keep up with
what you can and cannot tolerate.

Jill

On 7/5/2016 1:33 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:33:11 -0600, Janet B wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 11:21:18 -0500, Sqwertz >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 00:34:45 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>>> And it is not true that e-coli can not survive in cooked food. There was
>>>> that big Jack In The Box burger thing some years back.
>>>
>>> I specifically said that certain temperatures needed to be achieved.
>>> E-coli is killed at very specific temperatures for very specific
>>> lengths of time. 160F is considered the safe temperature to cook
>>> hamburger and other meats, but JitB was not doing that. If the USDA
>>> says 160F for hamburgers, what do you think would happen to e-coli in
>>> flour steamed at 200-212F?
>>>
>>> Wondra flour may have been steamed back in the 60's and 70's and
>>> General Mills still wants people to think that, but not now.
>>> Virtually all the mass produced modified food starches are now made by
>>> acid, alkaline, or enzymatic treatments.
>>
>> can't e. coli can be re-introduced into properly cooked foods by
>> hands, machinery, etc.?
>
> Sure. Anything can happen. Wondra would have a different packaging
> line for the canisters and bags-in-boxes. Wondra probably shares the
> same treatment apparatus used for bleaching their flour - which is
> treated with chlorine gas and benzoyl peroxide - yum!
>
> It's interesting to note that Wondra has been pulled from all web
> sites like Amazon and Walmart. You can find some old links to the
> product descriptions, but it's all been removed from their own search
> indexes. Not just out of stock ... but gone! It wouldn't surprise me
> that we've seen the last of Wondra.
>
> -sw
>
Hey, I have an ancient cannister of Wondra in the pantry. It was
something my mother bought. One of these days I'll throw it away. It's
undoubtedly "expired" anyway.

Jill

On 7/5/2016 3:53 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 7/5/2016 6:27 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 08:13:12 -0600, Janet B >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 23:34:23 -0700, isw > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >In article >,
>>>> > Sqwertz > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>>> >> > ...
>>>> >> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another
>>>> brand >> >>> of
>>>> >> >>> flour
>>>> >> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy
>>>> and >> >>> sauce. No
>>>> >> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
>>>> >> >> eventually just throw it away.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Yes it is cooked.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
>>>> >> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
>>>> >> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
>>>> >> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has
>>>> learned).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
>>>> >> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
>>>> >> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well
>>>> before
>>>> >> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
>>>> >> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
>>>> >> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
>>>> >> recalled.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
>>>> >> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make
>>>> fine
>>>> >> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
>>>> >
>>>> >"Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
>>>> >just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...
>>>> >
>>>> >Isaac
>>>>
>>>> did you know that you can mix a paste of soft butter and flour and put
>>>> that into the sauce to thicken it? The paste easily blends into the
>>>> sauce and will not lump.
>>>> Janet US
>>>
>>> Just shake up some flour with a little water (in a covered container)
>>> for a lump free slurry, no need for butter.
>>
>> But with the Wondra, you don't need the slurry.
>
> God forbid you should have to shake some flour with water to make a slurry.
>
> Jill


I seem to recall she is "sensitive" to water.

On 7/5/2016 1:40 PM, wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 11:45:28 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>>
>> I do store flour and cornmeal in the
>> freezer. That's just to keep it away from bugs.
>>
>> Jill
>>
>>
> I store my cornmeal in the freezer and only buy the
> small 2 pound sacks of flour when needed as I'm not
> a baker.
>
Same here. Oh, there are some things that require a bit of dredging in
flour but I definitely don't need a large bag of it. Ditto cornmeal. I
buy the 2 lb. bags and into the freezer it goes.

Jill

On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 18:53:56 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 7/5/2016 6:27 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >
> > "sf" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 08:13:12 -0600, Janet B >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 23:34:23 -0700, isw > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >In article >,
> >>> > Sqwertz > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> >>> >> > ...
> >>> >> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another
> >>> brand >> >>> of
> >>> >> >>> flour
> >>> >> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy
> >>> and >> >>> sauce. No
> >>> >> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
> >>> >> >> eventually just throw it away.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Yes it is cooked.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
> >>> >> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
> >>> >> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
> >>> >> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has
> >>> learned).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
> >>> >> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
> >>> >> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well
> >>> before
> >>> >> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
> >>> >> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
> >>> >> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
> >>> >> recalled.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
> >>> >> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make
> >>> fine
> >>> >> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
> >>> >
> >>> >"Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
> >>> >just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...
> >>> >
> >>> >Isaac
> >>>
> >>> did you know that you can mix a paste of soft butter and flour and put
> >>> that into the sauce to thicken it? The paste easily blends into the
> >>> sauce and will not lump.
> >>> Janet US
> >>
> >> Just shake up some flour with a little water (in a covered container)
> >> for a lump free slurry, no need for butter.
> >
> > But with the Wondra, you don't need the slurry.
>
> God forbid you should have to shake some flour with water to make a slurry.
>
>
And won't need to buy an otherwise useless product just to make a
flour thickened gravy.

--

sf

On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 18:55:35 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 7/5/2016 6:26 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >
> > "Janet B" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 23:34:23 -0700, isw > wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article >,
> >>> Sqwertz > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:49 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> >>>> > ...
> >>>> >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:32:28 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>> I did try looking but came up empty. Do you know of another
> >>>> brand of
> >>>> >>> flour
> >>>> >>> like Wondra? It is a cooked flour, perfect for making gravy and
> >>>> >>> sauce. No
> >>>> >>> need to make a slurry. Can dump it straight in. Never any lumps.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> It is not cooked. And you don't need it. You'd hate it and
> >>>> >> eventually just throw it away.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Yes it is cooked.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > http://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Says it is essentially cooked already.
> >>>>
> >>>> Wondra flour is a modified wheat flour starch made from treating it
> >>>> with an acid, usually hydrochloric acid. Of course they don't
> >>>> advertise that because people get freaked out when they know their
> >>>> food has been treated with acid (as Braggs Liquid Aminos has learned).
> >>>>
> >>>> If Wondra was cooked then it wouldn't have been the subject of the
> >>>> current e-coli flour recall. Steaming temperatures (as the above
> >>>> website claims) would easily kill e-Coli in milliseconds - well before
> >>>> steaming temperatures were reached. But acid treatments don't kill
> >>>> e-coli. That is why e-coli survives in - and passes through - your
> >>>> stomach. Which is full of acid. And that is why Wondra has been
> >>>> recalled.
> >>>>
> >>>> My store used to carry both the canister and the box of Wondra but
> >>>> they were not there today. Any half-moron should be able to make fine
> >>>> gravy using AP flour and corn starch. You don't need Wondra.
> >>>
> >>> "Need"??, No, but it sure is handy when that sauce you've already made
> >>> just didn't tighten up the way you expected ...
> >>>
> >>> Isaac
> >>
> >> did you know that you can mix a paste of soft butter and flour and put
> >> that into the sauce to thicken it? The paste easily blends into the
> >> sauce and will not lump.
> >> Janet US
> >
> > Sure I do. And then what? Wait for the butter to kick in and send me
> > flying to the bathroom in agony? I can't eat butter. And did you notice
> > the fact that I said that you don't need to make a slurry with the
> > Wondra? You do know what a slurry is...right?
> >
> >
> We do know what a slurry is. It is apparently something too darn
> difficult for you do to. Don't ask for suggestions then shoot them
> down. Sorry you cannot eat butter but most people can't keep up with
> what you can and cannot tolerate.
>
Nor do they care.

--

sf

On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 08:29:42 -0700, Taxed and Spent
> wrote:

>On 7/5/2016 8:21 AM, graham wrote:
>> On 7/5/2016 9:04 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>> On 7/5/2016 8:39 AM, Gary wrote:
>>>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What happens if you use AP flour after it "expires?"
>>>>
>>>> Nothing happens as long as it stays dry. I buy ap flour and pour it into
>>>> a tupperware canister and toss out the wrapper. I've never once thought
>>>> about it getting too old. My flour now is old but I have no idea how old
>>>> nor do I care. It works fine. I *think* I buy new about once per year.
>>>> Just a guess. If longer, no worries.
>>>>
>>> I don't use a lot of flour so I don't buy a large bag of it. I've never
>>> thought about it "expiring".
>>>
>>> Jill
>> Not so much expiring but flours do have Best Before dates. I checked my
>> AP bag and it is BB is next Sunday! That doesn't bother me! I've just
>> bought a 20kg sack of bread flour and the BB date is next May.
>> However, it is important to take note of the BB date on wholemeal flours
>> as they go rancid under normal conditions. I store those flours in the
>> freezer.
>> Graham
>
>even regular flour goes "off" after a LONG time. I had some that was
>probably 10 years old, and it tasted like cardboard.

About three years ago I gave up scratch baking except for quick bread.
I buy Bob's Redmill muffin mixes. For the little flour I now use I
buy Wondra.

"Nancy2" > wrote in message
...
>
> What happens if you use AP flour after it "expires?" I never pay any
> attention
> to those kinds of dates on pantry staples, for the most part.
>
> N.

Dunno. I do know that Whole Wheat will go rancid.

On 7/5/2016 4:42 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 15:54:59 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
>> You and the other foolish responders have only yourselves to blame.
>> Won't you ever learn?
>
> BTW, I notice you're reading it all. That's not much to brag about.
>
> -sw
>

you cannot tell what I read. No, I have her KFd and don't read the
threads, but I was interested in some FACTS about wondra.

On 7/5/2016 5:23 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 16:52:42 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
>> On 7/5/2016 4:42 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
>>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 15:54:59 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>>>
>>>> You and the other foolish responders have only yourselves to blame.
>>>> Won't you ever learn?
>>>
>>> BTW, I notice you're reading it all. That's not much to brag about.
>>
>> you cannot tell what I read. No, I have her KFd and don't read the
>> threads,
>
> Uh, she started the thread and is active in this subthread. So yes, I
> can tell what you're reading.
>
>> but I was interested in some FACTS about wondra.
>
> Your welcome.
>
> -sw
>


I certainly have not been "reading it all". You have no reason to think
otherwise.