I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.

Made the meatloaf as usual and put it in a cast iron pan. Cut up
potatoes and put them on both side. Used two of the four burners to
keep the temperature at 400 and an hour later, dinner was ready. Made
some Swiss chard to go with it.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.

Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
never heated up the room.
>
> Made the meatloaf as usual and put it in a cast iron pan. Cut up
> potatoes and put them on both side. Used two of the four burners to
> keep the temperature at 400 and an hour later, dinner was ready. Made
> some Swiss chard to go with it.

Ding, ding, ding - winner!

Suggestion for when you get tired of meatloaf sandwiches - I made a
version of caldo verde with leftover meatloaf the other day and was
thinking chard would have been great as the green, but I used what I
had (spinach).

--

sf

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>
>Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>never heated up the room.

That's because you don't use it, or you're numb. Unless one installs
a flue to the outdoors, as is usual for commercial kitchens, all
electric and gas ovens vent into the room... even microwave ovens vent
into the room. The primary purpose for venting cook ovens is to
disperse moisture... otherwise your roast beef would be more like pot
roast... baked goods would be very soggy, a loaf of bread would be
more like bread pudding.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>
>Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>never heated up the room.

This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
95 degrees but comfortable inside.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>
>>Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>>never heated up the room.
>
> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.

My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire house.
Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll use it to
make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> > I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
> > not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>
> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
> never heated up the room.

I've often wondered about that as so many rfc posters mention not
wanting to use the oven for that reason.

Gas/electric ovens here are so insulated they just don't heat the
kitchen. Even on cool days when you might wish they did :-)

Janet UK

On 2016-07-18 8:05 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>
>> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>> never heated up the room.
>
> I've often wondered about that as so many rfc posters mention not
> wanting to use the oven for that reason.
>
> Gas/electric ovens here are so insulated they just don't heat the
> kitchen. Even on cool days when you might wish they did :-)
>


Stoves here are well insulated too, but they are vented. The vent is
usually up through one of the top burners.

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 7:29:18 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2016-07-18 8:05 AM, Janet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > says...
> >>
> >> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >>
> >>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
> >>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
> >>
> >> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
> >> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
> >> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
> >> never heated up the room.
> >
> > I've often wondered about that as so many rfc posters mention not
> > wanting to use the oven for that reason.
> >
> > Gas/electric ovens here are so insulated they just don't heat the
> > kitchen. Even on cool days when you might wish they did :-)
> >
>
>
> Stoves here are well insulated too, but they are vented. The vent is
> usually up through one of the top burners.
>
>
The vent for my oven on my 3 year old gas range is at the back
of the stove on the 'back splash' (that's all I could think to
call it right off the top of my head). So, yes, they do heat up
the house no matter the time of the year. And don't forget, that
oven heat escapes whenever you open the door to either check,
baste, or remove the food.

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 8:52:13 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 7:29:18 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > On 2016-07-18 8:05 AM, Janet wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > says...
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
> > >>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
> > >>
> > >> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
> > >> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
> > >> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
> > >> never heated up the room.
> > >
> > > I've often wondered about that as so many rfc posters mention not
> > > wanting to use the oven for that reason.
> > >
> > > Gas/electric ovens here are so insulated they just don't heat the
> > > kitchen. Even on cool days when you might wish they did :-)
> > >
> >
> >
> > Stoves here are well insulated too, but they are vented. The vent is
> > usually up through one of the top burners.
> >
> >
> The vent for my oven on my 3 year old gas range is at the back
> of the stove on the 'back splash' (that's all I could think to
> call it right off the top of my head). So, yes, they do heat up
> the house no matter the time of the year. And don't forget, that
> oven heat escapes whenever you open the door to either check,
> baste, or remove the food.

Thanks. I was beginning to think that the law of conservation of
matter and energy was in abeyance in the kitchens of some RFC posters.

Cindy Hamilton

On 7/18/2016 6:25 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 8:52:13 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 7:29:18 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2016-07-18 8:05 AM, Janet wrote:
>>>> In article >,
>>>> says...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
>>>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>>>> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>>> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>>>>> never heated up the room.
>>>>
>>>> I've often wondered about that as so many rfc posters mention not
>>>> wanting to use the oven for that reason.
>>>>
>>>> Gas/electric ovens here are so insulated they just don't heat the
>>>> kitchen. Even on cool days when you might wish they did :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stoves here are well insulated too, but they are vented. The vent is
>>> usually up through one of the top burners.
>>>
>>>
>> The vent for my oven on my 3 year old gas range is at the back
>> of the stove on the 'back splash' (that's all I could think to
>> call it right off the top of my head). So, yes, they do heat up
>> the house no matter the time of the year. And don't forget, that
>> oven heat escapes whenever you open the door to either check,
>> baste, or remove the food.
>
> Thanks. I was beginning to think that the law of conservation of
> matter and energy was in abeyance in the kitchens of some RFC posters.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>


I know that MY oven actually cools down the house. True Story!*


* anytime someone says "true story" they are lying.

On 7/18/2016 9:25 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 8:52:13 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>> The vent for my oven on my 3 year old gas range is at the back
>> of the stove on the 'back splash' (that's all I could think to
>> call it right off the top of my head). So, yes, they do heat up
>> the house no matter the time of the year. And don't forget, that
>> oven heat escapes whenever you open the door to either check,
>> baste, or remove the food.
>
> Thanks. I was beginning to think that the law of conservation of
> matter and energy was in abeyance in the kitchens of some RFC posters.
>
+1

"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 8:52:13 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 7:29:18 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>> >
>> > On 2016-07-18 8:05 AM, Janet wrote:
>> > > In article >,
>> > >
>> > > says...
>> > >>
>> > >> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski >
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
>> > >>> did
>> > >>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>> > >>
>> > >> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From
>> > >> what
>> > >> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>> > >> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven
>> > >> has
>> > >> never heated up the room.
>> > >
>> > > I've often wondered about that as so many rfc posters mention not
>> > > wanting to use the oven for that reason.
>> > >
>> > > Gas/electric ovens here are so insulated they just don't heat the
>> > > kitchen. Even on cool days when you might wish they did :-)
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Stoves here are well insulated too, but they are vented. The vent is
>> > usually up through one of the top burners.
>> >
>> >
>> The vent for my oven on my 3 year old gas range is at the back
>> of the stove on the 'back splash' (that's all I could think to
>> call it right off the top of my head). So, yes, they do heat up
>> the house no matter the time of the year. And don't forget, that
>> oven heat escapes whenever you open the door to either check,
>> baste, or remove the food.
>
> Thanks. I was beginning to think that the law of conservation of
> matter and energy was in abeyance in the kitchens of some RFC posters.
>

Not mine. Mine isn't very old but it does warm the kitchen.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>
>>>Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>>I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>>>never heated up the room.
>>
>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
>
> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll use
> it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.

Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the fan
blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards. My old Frigidaire didn't heat
the kitchen up nearly as much.

Cheri

"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
>>>>> did
>>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>>
>>>>Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>>>I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>>ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>>>>never heated up the room.
>>>
>>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
>>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
>>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
>>
>> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
>> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll use
>> it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.
>
> Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the
> fan blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards. My old Frigidaire
> didn't heat the kitchen up nearly as much.

I have wall ovens and the large one has a fan. Same here, It blows for a
while afterwards too.

Today I was making bread and house was very cool. I was glad of the heat
from the ovens to help rise that bread.



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Janet wrote:
>
>Gas/electric ovens here are so insulated they just don't heat the
>kitchen. Even on cool days when you might wish they did :-)
>
> Janet UK

The heat is not through the oven walls, it's through the oven vent...
if your's isn't vented then you were screwed, you weren't sold an
oven, you were sold a pressure cooker.

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire house.
> Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll use it to
> make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.

Same here. My gas stove/oven is over 30 years old but I love it. The
oven will heat up the kitchen so I don't use it much in the summer. Like
you though, on cold days I'll use it and the heat and smell makes the
place seem warm and cozy.

I use it more in the winter but I don't ignore it in the summer. An hour
on is fine with me with the ac running.

On 7/18/2016 8:57 AM, Cheri wrote:
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
>>>>> did
>>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>>> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>>>> never heated up the room.
>>>
>>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
>>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
>>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
>>
>> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
>> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll
>> use it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.
>
> Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the
> fan blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards.

That's the cooling fan for the electronics. Mine failed once during a
very high temperature bread baking session:-( Big bucks to repair the Bosch.
Graham

On Sunday, July 17, 2016 at 2:19:29 PM UTC-10, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> > I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
> > not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>
> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
> never heated up the room.

My electric oven will put out a good amount of heat alright. If the oven housing is hot, it's heating up the room. Oddly enough, it's not that noticeable in this condo. Gas ovens will also radiate heat but what most people find unpleasant is the large amount of water vapor that gets released when natural gas or propane is burned. Under high humidity conditions, like 70% or 80% in the tropics, this get stifling pretty fast. The water vapor condenses on your skin releasing latent heat. Like they say, it ain't the heat - it's the humidity.

OTOH, under low humidity conditions, a gas oven can be quite warming and friendly.

> >
> > Made the meatloaf as usual and put it in a cast iron pan. Cut up
> > potatoes and put them on both side. Used two of the four burners to
> > keep the temperature at 400 and an hour later, dinner was ready. Made
> > some Swiss chard to go with it.
>
> Ding, ding, ding - winner!
>
> Suggestion for when you get tired of meatloaf sandwiches - I made a
> version of caldo verde with leftover meatloaf the other day and was
> thinking chard would have been great as the green, but I used what I
> had (spinach).
>
> --
>
> sf

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 12:41:07 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
>
> Gas ovens will also radiate heat but what most people find unpleasant is the large amount of water vapor that gets released when natural gas or propane is burned. Under high humidity conditions, like 70% or 80% in the tropics, this get stifling pretty fast. The water vapor condenses on your skin releasing latent heat. Like they say, it ain't the heat - it's the humidity.
>
>
My kitchen faces west and yes, in the summer that gas stove can
really put out the heat. Even with central air it can be
rather uncomfortable in there. Fan sitting in the laundry room
and directed toward the kitchen seems to help a good bit. Unless
it is something very large I tend to use an electric countertop
convection oven for baked items.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:30:30 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> Stoves here are well insulated too, but they are vented. The vent is
> usually up through one of the top burners.
>
The vent doesn't release any appreciable heat.

--

sf

On 2016-07-18 2:34 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:30:30 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> Stoves here are well insulated too, but they are vented. The vent is
>> usually up through one of the top burners.
>>
> The vent doesn't release any appreciable heat.

I beg to differ. I have made the mistake of leaving things on the burner
(turned off) with the vent and they get quite warm.

>

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Cheri" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
>>>>>> did
>>>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>>>
>>>>>Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>>>>I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>>>ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>>>>>never heated up the room.
>>>>
>>>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
>>>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
>>>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
>>>
>>> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
>>> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll
>>> use it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.
>>
>> Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the
>> fan blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards. My old Frigidaire
>> didn't heat the kitchen up nearly as much.
>
> I have wall ovens and the large one has a fan. Same here, It blows for a
> while afterwards too.
>
> Today I was making bread and house was very cool. I was glad of the heat
> from the ovens to help rise that bread.

Lucky you! Here, hot, but I do have good central air so I do use my oven
year round if needed. I also have a Nu-Wave which is nice for many things
and a fair sized toaster oven, so I'm good to go.

Cheri

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 8:30:31 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 12:41:07 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > Gas ovens will also radiate heat but what most people find unpleasant is the large amount of water vapor that gets released when natural gas or propane is burned. Under high humidity conditions, like 70% or 80% in the tropics, this get stifling pretty fast. The water vapor condenses on your skin releasing latent heat. Like they say, it ain't the heat - it's the humidity.
> >
> >
> My kitchen faces west and yes, in the summer that gas stove can
> really put out the heat. Even with central air it can be
> rather uncomfortable in there. Fan sitting in the laundry room
> and directed toward the kitchen seems to help a good bit. Unless
> it is something very large I tend to use an electric countertop
> convection oven for baked items.

I grew up in an all gas kitchen in the tropics. What a hellhole! I don't really feel the heat in my kitchen these days. The induction range makes cooking more pleasant by not radiating heat. Thank you Jesus!

I don't like using the oven to bake single items. It seems kind of inefficient. One of those small convection ovens would suit me just fine. I'll use a toaster oven to bake small batches of muffins or pizza. It works okey dokey. I figure I save maybe a quarter in electricity.

"graham" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/18/2016 8:57 AM, Cheri wrote:
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
>>>>>> did
>>>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>>>> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>>> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>>>>> never heated up the room.
>>>>
>>>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
>>>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
>>>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
>>>
>>> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
>>> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll
>>> use it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.
>>
>> Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the
>> fan blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards.
>
> That's the cooling fan for the electronics. Mine failed once during a very
> high temperature bread baking session:-( Big bucks to repair the Bosch.
> Graham

A Bosch is pretty high end right? I imagine they're more expensive to fix? I
did buy the five year warranty on mine after a mishap the first day it was
installed. The door lock didn't work so it had to be replaced, of course
there was no charge for it, but it didn't make me feel confident for the
long term.

Cheri

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 7:36:36 AM UTC-10, graham wrote:
> On 7/18/2016 8:57 AM, Cheri wrote:
> >
> > "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
> >>>>> did
> >>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
> >>>>
> >>>> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
> >>>> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
> >>>> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
> >>>> never heated up the room.
> >>>
> >>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
> >>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
> >>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
> >>
> >> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
> >> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll
> >> use it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.
> >
> > Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the
> > fan blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards.
>
> That's the cooling fan for the electronics. Mine failed once during a
> very high temperature bread baking session:-( Big bucks to repair the Bosch.
> Graham

My VW has crappy Bosch electricals and parts. They like to break a lot. I'm replacing them with cheap Chinese parts. I have more confidence in them. Hopefully, your cooling fan is a cheap Chinese part replacement.

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 4:22:27 PM UTC-4, Cheri wrote:

> A Bosch is pretty high end right? I imagine they're more expensive to fix? I
> did buy the five year warranty on mine after a mishap the first day it was
> installed. The door lock didn't work so it had to be replaced, of course
> there was no charge for it, but it didn't make me feel confident for the
> long term.

I've got a Bosch. It was troubled from the very beginning. There's
some deal with the hinges on the oven door; after I used it the first
time they warped and the door wouldn't close. They "fixed" it under
warranty (bent the hinges around, if memory serves), but told me they'd
have to send it back to the factory for a proper fix. DH fabricated a
rotating arm on a powerful magnet that holds the door somewhat more
closed.

Cindy Hamilton

"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 4:22:27 PM UTC-4, Cheri wrote:
>
>> A Bosch is pretty high end right? I imagine they're more expensive to
>> fix? I
>> did buy the five year warranty on mine after a mishap the first day it
>> was
>> installed. The door lock didn't work so it had to be replaced, of course
>> there was no charge for it, but it didn't make me feel confident for the
>> long term.
>
> I've got a Bosch. It was troubled from the very beginning. There's
> some deal with the hinges on the oven door; after I used it the first
> time they warped and the door wouldn't close. They "fixed" it under
> warranty (bent the hinges around, if memory serves), but told me they'd
> have to send it back to the factory for a proper fix. DH fabricated a
> rotating arm on a powerful magnet that holds the door somewhat more
> closed.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Wow, that lowers the confidence level too.

Cheri

"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "Cheri" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>>>>>I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>>>>ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>>>>>>never heated up the room.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
>>>>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
>>>>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
>>>>
>>>> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
>>>> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll
>>>> use it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.
>>>
>>> Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the
>>> fan blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards. My old Frigidaire
>>> didn't heat the kitchen up nearly as much.
>>
>> I have wall ovens and the large one has a fan. Same here, It blows for
>> a while afterwards too.
>>
>> Today I was making bread and house was very cool. I was glad of the heat
>> from the ovens to help rise that bread.
>
> Lucky you! Here, hot, but I do have good central air so I do use my oven
> year round if needed. I also have a Nu-Wave which is nice for many things
> and a fair sized toaster oven, so I'm good to go.

I saw you mention a 'Nu-Wave' in the past and I have been meaning to have a
look to see what it is.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 3:20:17 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
>
> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 8:30:31 AM UTC-10, wrote:
>
> > Unless
> > it is something very large I tend to use an electric countertop
> > convection oven for baked items.
>
> I grew up in an all gas kitchen in the tropics. What a hellhole! I don't really feel the heat in my kitchen these days. The induction range makes cooking more pleasant by not radiating heat. Thank you Jesus!
>
> One of those small convection ovens would suit me just fine. I'll use a toaster oven to bake small batches of muffins or pizza. It works okey dokey. I figure I save maybe a quarter in electricity.
>
>
I had a smaller convection oven but recently purchased a B&D
large capacity model. It will accommodate a 9x13 pan, with
handles, with ease and also cook a 12 inch pizza with room to
spare. Quite pleased with this model at $60 from Wal Mart.

Hamilton Beach also has a large capacity model that will
take a 9x13 vessel BUT that pan cannot have any sort of
handles. About the same price as the B&D. The B&D also
comes in a digital model for about $95.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 15:48:13 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 2016-07-18 2:34 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:30:30 -0400, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Stoves here are well insulated too, but they are vented. The vent is
> >> usually up through one of the top burners.
> >>
> > The vent doesn't release any appreciable heat.
>
> I beg to differ. I have made the mistake of leaving things on the burner
> (turned off) with the vent and they get quite warm.
>
Mine doesn't.

--

sf

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 11:00:33 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 3:20:17 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 8:30:31 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> >
> > > Unless
> > > it is something very large I tend to use an electric countertop
> > > convection oven for baked items.
> >
> > I grew up in an all gas kitchen in the tropics. What a hellhole! I don't really feel the heat in my kitchen these days. The induction range makes cooking more pleasant by not radiating heat. Thank you Jesus!
> >
> > One of those small convection ovens would suit me just fine. I'll use a toaster oven to bake small batches of muffins or pizza. It works okey dokey. I figure I save maybe a quarter in electricity.
> >
> >
> I had a smaller convection oven but recently purchased a B&D
> large capacity model. It will accommodate a 9x13 pan, with
> handles, with ease and also cook a 12 inch pizza with room to
> spare. Quite pleased with this model at $60 from Wal Mart.
>
> Hamilton Beach also has a large capacity model that will
> take a 9x13 vessel BUT that pan cannot have any sort of
> handles. About the same price as the B&D. The B&D also
> comes in a digital model for about $95.

We used to have one of those big countertop convection ovens. It might have been a B&D. It worked pretty good. The idea is a simple one - a large toaster oven with a fan. I bought this when the oven in the house we were renting crapped out. My main requirement was that it be big enough to roast a large chicken. It did that very well. I could practically cook anything with one of these units and an induction cooktop. Perhaps one day.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 06:25:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:


>Thanks. I was beginning to think that the law of conservation of
>matter and energy was in abeyance in the kitchens of some RFC posters.

Well, there's always the Bothell exception, of course.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 05:52:04 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 7:29:18 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-07-18 8:05 AM, Janet wrote:
>> > In article >,
>> > says...
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I did
>> >>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>> >>
>> >> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>> >> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>> >> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven has
>> >> never heated up the room.
>> >
>> > I've often wondered about that as so many rfc posters mention not
>> > wanting to use the oven for that reason.
>> >
>> > Gas/electric ovens here are so insulated they just don't heat the
>> > kitchen. Even on cool days when you might wish they did :-)
>> >
>>
>>
>> Stoves here are well insulated too, but they are vented. The vent is
>> usually up through one of the top burners.
>>
>>
>The vent for my oven on my 3 year old gas range is at the back
>of the stove on the 'back splash' (that's all I could think to
>call it right off the top of my head). So, yes, they do heat up
>the house no matter the time of the year. And don't forget, that
>oven heat escapes whenever you open the door to either check,
>baste, or remove the food.

Yes, with better quality stoves the oven is vented through the
backsplash. Wall oven vents are usually located on the front facia
just above the door opening. In commercial kitchens ovens are vented
to the outdoors, next you're at a pizza parlor you'll see the flue
pipe exiting the top of the oven and going outside. Nasturally
everytime teh oven door is opened heat escapes, that's the reason for
glass panel oven doors and also oven lights. It would be nice if home
fridges had glass panel doors too, so people wouldn't be standing
there for ten minutes perussing with the door open and then take
nothing... a lot of people have a fridge psychosis, they can't pass
the fridge without opening the door just to take inventory... some
people are very ill, they can't be on the phone in the kitchen lest
the fridge door is open the entire time... they need to be committed
to the Perishables Sanitarium and work through the Kelvinator 12 step
program.

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Cheri" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Cheri" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski >
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>>>>>>I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>>>>>ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven
>>>>>>>has
>>>>>>>never heated up the room.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
>>>>>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
>>>>>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
>>>>>
>>>>> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
>>>>> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll
>>>>> use it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.
>>>>
>>>> Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the
>>>> fan blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards. My old Frigidaire
>>>> didn't heat the kitchen up nearly as much.
>>>
>>> I have wall ovens and the large one has a fan. Same here, It blows for
>>> a while afterwards too.
>>>
>>> Today I was making bread and house was very cool. I was glad of the
>>> heat
>>> from the ovens to help rise that bread.
>>
>> Lucky you! Here, hot, but I do have good central air so I do use my oven
>> year round if needed. I also have a Nu-Wave which is nice for many things
>> and a fair sized toaster oven, so I'm good to go.
>
> I saw you mention a 'Nu-Wave' in the past and I have been meaning to have
> a
> look to see what it is.

I love it, very handy.

Cheri

On 7/18/2016 2:21 PM, Cheri wrote:
>
> "graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 7/18/2016 8:57 AM, Cheri wrote:
>>>
>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From what
>>>>>> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>>>> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> never heated up the room.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
>>>>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
>>>>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
>>>>
>>>> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
>>>> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll
>>>> use it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.
>>>
>>> Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the
>>> fan blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards.
>>
>> That's the cooling fan for the electronics. Mine failed once during a
>> very high temperature bread baking session:-( Big bucks to repair the
>> Bosch.
>> Graham
>
> A Bosch is pretty high end right? I imagine they're more expensive to
> fix? I did buy the five year warranty on mine after a mishap the first
> day it was installed. The door lock didn't work so it had to be
> replaced, of course there was no charge for it, but it didn't make me
> feel confident for the long term.
>
> Cheri
>
Moderately high end. When I renovated my kitchen ~18 years ago, I wanted
a convection oven and this was the first European style oven that was
30" wide to appear in this neck of the woods. In those days US makes
were coming out with *******ised versions with a fan to circulate the
air but the heat supplied by that stupid, exposed bottom element. I
bought it on the name. Big mistake! In convection mode the temperature
remains within a degree of the setting. In roast mode it swings +/-
50F!!!!!!
It's noisy too.
I have a Bosch dishwasher that became very noisy just after the warranty
expired, although it still cleans well. A Bosch rep told me that they
build them to have a 10year lifespan (Miele is 20yrs).
Graham

On 7/18/2016 2:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 4:22:27 PM UTC-4, Cheri wrote:
>
>> A Bosch is pretty high end right? I imagine they're more expensive to fix? I
>> did buy the five year warranty on mine after a mishap the first day it was
>> installed. The door lock didn't work so it had to be replaced, of course
>> there was no charge for it, but it didn't make me feel confident for the
>> long term.
>
> I've got a Bosch. It was troubled from the very beginning. There's
> some deal with the hinges on the oven door; after I used it the first
> time they warped and the door wouldn't close. They "fixed" it under
> warranty (bent the hinges around, if memory serves), but told me they'd
> have to send it back to the factory for a proper fix. DH fabricated a
> rotating arm on a powerful magnet that holds the door somewhat more
> closed.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
The hinges are weak and mine bent (although I have a suspicion that it
was a house guest who leaned down on the door). They were replaced under
warranty. I use the convection bake mode for everything including the
xmas turkey! The thermostat is poorly placed for other modes and in
convection roast the temp varies =/- 50F. Made in Italy!
I'm not impressed by Bosch. Consumer Reports consistently praise their
dishwashers but mine is very noisy.
I'm thinking of replacing both, but with what I don't know. Miele would
be nice but I can't justify the expense for this house.
Graham
Graham

On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 3:22:13 PM UTC-10, graham wrote:
> On 7/18/2016 2:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 4:22:27 PM UTC-4, Cheri wrote:
> >
> >> A Bosch is pretty high end right? I imagine they're more expensive to fix? I
> >> did buy the five year warranty on mine after a mishap the first day it was
> >> installed. The door lock didn't work so it had to be replaced, of course
> >> there was no charge for it, but it didn't make me feel confident for the
> >> long term.
> >
> > I've got a Bosch. It was troubled from the very beginning. There's
> > some deal with the hinges on the oven door; after I used it the first
> > time they warped and the door wouldn't close. They "fixed" it under
> > warranty (bent the hinges around, if memory serves), but told me they'd
> > have to send it back to the factory for a proper fix. DH fabricated a
> > rotating arm on a powerful magnet that holds the door somewhat more
> > closed.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> The hinges are weak and mine bent (although I have a suspicion that it
> was a house guest who leaned down on the door). They were replaced under
> warranty. I use the convection bake mode for everything including the
> xmas turkey! The thermostat is poorly placed for other modes and in
> convection roast the temp varies =/- 50F. Made in Italy!
> I'm not impressed by Bosch. Consumer Reports consistently praise their
> dishwashers but mine is very noisy.
> I'm thinking of replacing both, but with what I don't know. Miele would
> be nice but I can't justify the expense for this house.
> Graham
> Graham

My Samsung oven wouldn't turn on after I used the self-cleaning feature one time because the temperature sensor was damaged by the high heat. My understanding is that it's a common problem. A replacement was around $12 on eBay. That's kinda lame, if you ask me. That was the first and last time that I'll use the self-cleaning cycle on that thing. Too bad, it's a handy feature.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 19:21:22 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:


>My Samsung oven wouldn't turn on after I used the self-cleaning feature one time because the temperature sensor was damaged by the high heat. My understanding is that it's a common problem. A replacement was around $12 on eBay. That's kinda lame, if you ask me. That was the first and last time that I'll use the self-cleaning cycle on that thing. Too bad, it's a handy feature.

It's a stupid feature. A feature which technology hasn't mastered, yet
they still successfully sell it to the public because they're so
hopelessly self-centred and monumentally lazy. Just use some elbow
grease and clean the goddamned oven by hand.

On 7/18/2016 9:23 PM, Je�us wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 19:21:22 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
>
>> My Samsung oven wouldn't turn on after I used the self-cleaning feature one time because the temperature sensor was damaged by the high heat. My understanding is that it's a common problem. A replacement was around $12 on eBay. That's kinda lame, if you ask me. That was the first and last time that I'll use the self-cleaning cycle on that thing. Too bad, it's a handy feature.
>
> It's a stupid feature. A feature which technology hasn't mastered, yet
> they still successfully sell it to the public because they're so
> hopelessly self-centred and monumentally lazy. Just use some elbow
> grease and clean the goddamned oven by hand.
>
I used to use the self clean feature but last year used the NaOH oven
cleaner method and the oven had never looked so clean.
Graham

"graham" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/18/2016 2:21 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>
>> "graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 7/18/2016 8:57 AM, Cheri wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:19:29 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:26:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was in the mood for meatloaf tonight, but at 95 degrees outside I
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> not want to use the oven. Cooked it on the grill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting that you said you didn't want to use the oven. From
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> I've been told, modern gas ovens don't heat up the room like the gas
>>>>>>> ovens of old did. Just an FYI: my "older than dirt" electric oven
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> never heated up the room.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a gas convection oven and it does add heat to the room. The
>>>>>> grill worked and added no additional load to the AC. It was already
>>>>>> 95 degrees but comfortable inside.
>>>>>
>>>>> My electric oven is about 12 years old and it does heat up the entire
>>>>> house. Sometimes when the weather is just starting to turn cold, I'll
>>>>> use it to make something just so I don't have to turn the heat on.
>>>>
>>>> Mine is a fairly new GE wall oven and it definitely adds heat since the
>>>> fan blows hot air out for quite awhile afterwards.
>>>
>>> That's the cooling fan for the electronics. Mine failed once during a
>>> very high temperature bread baking session:-( Big bucks to repair the
>>> Bosch.
>>> Graham
>>
>> A Bosch is pretty high end right? I imagine they're more expensive to
>> fix? I did buy the five year warranty on mine after a mishap the first
>> day it was installed. The door lock didn't work so it had to be
>> replaced, of course there was no charge for it, but it didn't make me
>> feel confident for the long term.
>>
>> Cheri
>>
> Moderately high end. When I renovated my kitchen ~18 years ago, I wanted a
> convection oven and this was the first European style oven that was 30"
> wide to appear in this neck of the woods. In those days US makes were
> coming out with *******ised versions with a fan to circulate the air but
> the heat supplied by that stupid, exposed bottom element. I bought it on
> the name. Big mistake! In convection mode the temperature remains within a
> degree of the setting. In roast mode it swings +/- 50F!!!!!!
> It's noisy too.
> I have a Bosch dishwasher that became very noisy just after the warranty
> expired, although it still cleans well. A Bosch rep told me that they
> build them to have a 10year lifespan (Miele is 20yrs).
> Graham

I'm sorry to hear that, I always heard they were a great brand, but twenty
years and still cleans well isn't so bad.

Cheri